Y-chromosome variation among Sudanese: Restricted gene flow, concordance with language, geography, and history
Hisham Y. Hassan et al.
Abstract
We study the major levels of Y-chromosome haplogroup variation in 15 Sudanese populations by typing major Y-haplogroups in 445 unrelated males representing the three linguistic families in Sudan. Our analysis shows Sudanese populations fall into haplogroups A, B, E, F, I, J, K, and R in frequencies of 16.9, 7.9, 34.4, 3.1, 1.3, 22.5, 0.9, and 13% respectively. Haplogroups A, B, and E occur mainly in Nilo-Saharan speaking groups including Nilotics, Fur, Borgu, and Masalit; whereas haplogroups F, I, J, K, and R are more frequent among Afro-Asiatic speaking groups including Arabs, Beja, Copts, and Hausa, and Niger-Congo speakers from the Fulani ethnic group. Mantel tests reveal a strong correlation between genetic and linguistic structures (r = 0.31, P = 0.007), and a similar correlation between genetic and geographic distances (r = 0.29, P = 0.025) that appears after removing nomadic pastoralists of no known geographic locality from the analysis. The bulk of genetic diversity appears to be a consequence of recent migrations and demographic events mainly from Asia and Europe, evident in a higher migration rate for speakers of Afro-Asiatic as compared with the Nilo-Saharan family of languages, and a generally higher effective population size for the former. The data provide insights not only into the history of the Nile Valley, but also in part to the history of Africa and the area of the Sahel.
posted
Would be interesting to see how the genetic structuring might have come about, as the authors put forth, that is to say--by examination of lineage frequency and distribution pattern respective to each of tested groups. I suspect that this structuring in correlation to language camps, can to some extent be attributed to relatively more frequent co-minglings between "Arabs, Beja, Copts, Hausa and Niger-Congo speakers from the Fulani ethnic group", i.e. aside from any level of direct gene flow from outside to one or the other among them, than the case has historically been between the said groups and "Nilo-Saharan speaking groups including Nilotics, Fur, Borgu, and Masalit"; external demic diffusion into the latter groups has likely been relatively more restricted as well. Full text of the study would undoubtedly be welcome.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
So the Afro-asiatics and "selected" members of the Niger-Congo are actually caucasoids whose ancesters came in from the middle east and europe according to these scientists. (As a sidenote: who came up with the name for these language groups? what is their ethniciy?)
And they have you posting their nonsense on this forum. You're pitiful.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
I'm glad that I'm not one of these non-degreed pseudo internet armchair fake geneticists that mindlessly and blindly injects themselves with whatever drivel some white scientist puts out for them pick pocket up. All while complaining about these same white people being racist.
quote:mindlessly and blindly injects themselves with whatever drivel
^ But then, you do this all the time, regardless of topic. You're doing it now, in fact, with your latest worthless vomitings. I think you confuse your drivel with sarcasm. This is a mistake.
quote:LOL LOL LOL
^ Even funnier because you don't realise the joke is on you. Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
^ Yes, we know you're ashamed of being stupid, and clown as and act of over compensation.
And that's *why* you're always the unintended target of your own pathetic attempts at "humor".
That's what it means to be clown, which is all you are....
quote:Originally posted by rasol: "If you become a doctor, folks will face you with dread If you become a dentist, they'll be glad when you're dead You'll get a bigger hand if you can stand on your head
posted
Hey, look at the bright side of this: well, at least in-the-house troll is not of those who can read. But he/she sure is a non-degreed pseudo armchair fake gutsy fellow, who naturally gets guts to annoy only when tapping away on a computer at a safe distance, but quickly tucks up his/her skirt and runs away when confronted face-to-face. Btw, argoofy must be wearing 'tea leaves' and not those "westernized" cloths, given his/her disdain for science, which he/she dismisses as the "white man's" thing.
We know one thing for sure; this fellow is a hypocrite, using computer running on one science or the other that some white man undoubtedly had something to do with bringing to light; oh no, nope; he/she dare reject that science as the "white man's" drivel, and pleasantly disappear into some abyss that is offline.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by argyle104: I'm glad that I'm not one of these non-degreed pseudo internet armchair fake geneticists that mindlessly and blindly injects themselves with whatever drivel some white scientist puts out for them pick pocket up. All while complaining about these same white people being racist.
LOL LOL LOL
Damn, I hate when this clown makes a good point and I have to agree with him
How can you hate whitey but then use everything whitey says to support African claims? It's very incongruous.
How can you take the DNA of 200 individuals and extrapolate and super-impose that genome onto 1 million people?
Posts: 343 | Registered: Feb 2008
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quote:haplogroups F, I, J, K, and R are more frequent among Afro-Asiatic speaking groups
Umm, why do they fail to mention E, especially considering that it's overwhelmingly the MOST prominent haplogroup seen among Afro-asiatic speakers, while the other haplogroups are relatively rare [with the exception of J in concern to non-African Semitic-speakers]. That seems kind of deceptive..
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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quote:Umm, why do they fail to mention E, especially considering that it's overwhelmingly the MOST prominent haplogroup seen among Afro-asiatic speakers.
Because it contradicts the spin they are trying to place on things.
African haplogroups A, B an E are the majority among all sudanese Africans.
The so called Arabs, would either primarily be Nilo-saharan speakers who converted to Arab pseudo identity by langauge - or actual Asiatic Arabs who are therefore not native to the Sudan to begin with.
Hassan et al, weak attempt at Arab-centric spin is contrived to the point of being hardly worthy of comment.
It reminds me of the occassional attempt to reinvent Kemitic Ancient Egypt as a 'semitic' civilisation, and so give the Arab a completely illogical and fake sense of participation.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:How can you hate whitey but then use everything whitey says to support African claims?
^ Hatred is intrinsically irrational. Therefore this is a stupid remark. The forum would be less stupid if you, Akoben and Argyle would all leave.
Posts: 15202 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:haplogroups F, I, J, K, and R are more frequent among Afro-Asiatic speaking groups
Umm, why do they fail to mention E, especially considering that it's overwhelmingly the MOST prominent haplogroup seen among Afro-asiatic speakers, while the other haplogroups are relatively rare [with the exception of J in concern to non-African Semitic-speakers]. That seems kind of deceptive..
I'll reserve judgement about any intentions of the authors, outside of that proposed in the extract, until I've gone through the entire study. But, from the little information provided in the extract, it appears that the authors are not saying that the lineages found in Nilo-Saharan groups--that is, "Haplogroups A, B, and E occur mainly in Nilo-Saharan speaking groups..."--are not found in the "Afro-Asiatic speaking groups including Arabs, Beja, Copts, and Hausa, and Niger-Congo speakers from the Fulani ethnic group", but that the latter lineages--which are "haplogroups F, I, J, K, and R", were *relatively* more frequent in the said non-"Nilo-Saharan" speaking groups; this is not to say that the said lineages [that is--haplogroups F, I, J, K and R] outnumber either haplogroup A, B, and/or E in this or the other non-"Nilo-Saharan" group, but that comparatively speaking, i.e. against the Nilo-Saharan speaking groups, the said groups carried more of either haplogroup F, I, J, K, and/or R. Pending further reading of the study, that is the first impression I got from the extract.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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I'm glad that I'm not one of these non-degreed pseudo internet armchair fake geneticists that mindlessly and blindly injects themselves with whatever drivel some white scientist puts out for them pick pocket up. All while complaining about these same white people being racist.
LOL LOL LOL
Damn, I hate when this clown makes a good point and I have to agree with him
How can you hate whitey but then use everything whitey says to support African claims? It's very incongruous.
Both of you are throwing dud blows at the air. You make fictitious charges about imaginary persons, and then proclaim to ridicule by way of the logical fallacy of strawman. "White scientists" don't comprise a homogenous entity, and each 'scientific' work has to be looked at on its own merit. Hence, the notion that they comprise some homogenous entity which is revered but at the same time the target of "hatred" or "complaints", is a frivolous figment of imagination. Now of course, you rarely get along with the said clown for the same reason you find yourself agreeing with him/her; that is--because you are one of the same kind.
quote:Wolofi, the charlatan "African", writes:
How can you take the DNA of 200 individuals and extrapolate and super-impose that genome onto 1 million people?
Learn the science, will ya!...and it won't bedazzle you: DNA studies use the statistics of probability, because it is not spatially, temporally and economically viable, and perhaps even from a consensual [of the targeted subjects] standpoint, to test each and every person on the planet.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
^^Notwithstanding, I do find the language of the following kind of troubling...
Haplogroups A, B, and E occur mainly in Nilo-Saharan speaking groups including Nilotics, Fur, Borgu, and Masalit...
Apparently, it pays to see the *specific* haplotype distribution respective to each tested group.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
The abstract states that approximately 33% of Sudan's population is J and R. Hardly credible! There are Greek and West Asian migrants living in the Sudan--just as there are Lebanese and South Asian migrants in other parts of Africa--but it is doubtful that those samples are non-biased.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Bear in mind too that the population of Sudan(Africa's largest country followed by Congo) is some 40 million in a country almost the size of India. Factor in too the vast remote areas with their own populations that are acessible only with difficulty.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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The abstract states that approximately 33% of Sudan's population is J and R. Hardly credible!
The keywords here, as highlighted, are: Our analysis shows Sudanese populations fall into haplogroups A, B, E, F, I, J, K, and R in frequencies of 16.9, 7.9, 34.4, 3.1, 1.3, 22.5, 0.9, and 13% respectively.
These frequencies are in relation to the sample sizes of the analysis in question, not overall populations of the tested groups.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
True; common sense urges me to cite first-hand work undertaken by *geneticists* on genealogical matters.
What does pot-puffing chi chi man here do, when confronted with the same matters? Yeap, cites a lawyer and a crackpot 'medi-centrist' loon by the name "dienekes".
Shame on me for having common sense.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
What; your bed-buddy, the charlatan "African" wolofi who came to cheerlead you, did not give you a good morning ride? Poor thing.
Damn, your government has failed you in the education department, judging from your *broken* ebonics. Granted ebonics is broken English, you've managed to bungle even ebonics, argy the in-house turd.
Which psychiatrist told you to quit your day job, and remedy your face-to-face fears by acting gutsy behind a computer in a rat hole? Funny thing is, your doctor wouldn't even advice you to quit your day job, if he/she knew that you sucked at that too.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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If so, then the title of the study can be misleading. Second, the study seems kind of tendentious in a covert sort of way.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote: Which psychiatrist told you to quit your day job, and remedy your face-to-face fears by acting gutsy behind a computer in a rat hole?
On second thought; what did your doctor advice you to become an undegreed gutless in-house clown for? It's obvious you're pathetic at that.
quote: Funny thing is, your doctor wouldn't even advice you to quit your day job, if he/she knew that you sucked at that too.
Your doctor is missin' the secret: argy turd is a jobless food-stamp clinging armchair clown-wannabe reject, reduced to a 24/7 incessant search for a gig as the in-house clown on Egyptsearch that you'll never get. Lol.
What; now, you're going to cry your eyes out on us, for not giving you a gig you're not qualified for? Lol.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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If so, then the title of the study can be misleading.
Elaborate!
quote:lamin writes:
Second, the study seems kind of tendentious in a covert sort of way.
Again, calls for elaboration. Have you read the entire study, or is this based on...?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Isn't it obvious that the reason that these two faux geneticists are so dependent on these "faux genetic reports" from Powder is because its the only way they think they can be seen as intelligent/intellectual. LOL.
They actually believe that everyone here believes that they are in the lab right beside Frosty while he conjures up his snake oil.
posted
Hey argy turd, tell us; why do wear cloths styled along that of "Powder"...or are you roaming around naked with bones in your nose?
Tell us, why you are nattering hypocritically, while using a computer that relies on what some "Powder" figured out at one point or another?
If not for your broken ebonics, you'd learn that we are busy "analyzing" the study in question, because we understand it. But we also understand that you are running away from the topic, and instead dismissing science as the "Powder" thing to do, because you cannot read it. Get off your slave-breeded straight jacket, will ya.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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The abstract states that approximately 33% of Sudan's population is J and R. Hardly credible!
The keywords here, as highlighted, are: Our analysis shows Sudanese populations fall into haplogroups A, B, E, F, I, J, K, and R in frequencies of 16.9, 7.9, 34.4, 3.1, 1.3, 22.5, 0.9, and 13% respectively.
These frequencies are in relation to the sample sizes of the analysis in question, not overall populations of the tested groups.
Soooo, what is the point of populations genetics if it just concerns the tested people and not the genome of the populous? How do we know who they actually tested and what they look like and what ethnic group they come from since there are multiple ethnic groups in Sudan?
You are insinuating that this study isn't the least bit misleading?
Posts: 343 | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
Ausārian aka Loon Time Lanny aka "Ma Dick" wrote:
quote: why do wear cloths styled along that of "Powder"...or are you roaming around naked with bones in your nose?
BWWHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHARRRRRGHHAHA
Folks this from a West African.
quote: Get off your slave-breeded straight jacket, will ya
Again from a West African. (and folks I'm not talking about Mauritania, Morocco, Mali, Algeria, Burkino Faso, and Niger)
You know which countries I'm talking about. heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Anyone journeying around the net would think those countries are the slave depot. They have those countries as being slaves to everyone and their brother (Cambodians included).
ehehehehehehehehehhee
There's even a post on that other forum about the romans and greeks going in and getting them.
I guess that's why the boy is obsessed with being a slave. LOL! That's why he keeps trying to project it onto everyone else. : )
Maybe his obsession with being a slave is why West African men (Mauritania, Morocco, Mali, Algeria, Burkino Faso, and Niger not included of course) like lightskin women so much. Its their ultimate dominatrix fantasy.
Don't take it too personal, but fact is you think like a typical slave.
Granted, the folks who were actually captured back in the days, had a rather progressive mindset. One would expect a later generation such as yourself to advance that progressive mindset, instead of being a true slave that your ancestors psychologically never were. Case in point, there were slaves who actually embraced science, didn't look upon applying science as the "powder" thing to do, and actually invented things out of its application. Many generations later, we have people like argy turd, who act worse than a captured slave, with their slave-breeded mind stunted in its growth, even by stone age standards. People like argy turd turn back the clock, not move forward.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Yeap, you bet: argy turd - the archetype slave. Nobody can measure up to the slave-breeded standards you set. Shall we call you argytype slave?
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Shall we call you Nagudu (LOL) from West Africa (Mauritania, Morocco, Mali, Algeria, Burkino Faso, and Niger not included of course) whose been a slave to everyone from the greeks to romans to berbers to arabs to persians to indians to east asians? (Hell whose slaves haven't they been)?
You apparently love imagining about people you've never met, but low on answering questions asked of you. Remember this:
Hey argy turd, tell us; why do wear cloths styled along that of "Powder"...or are you roaming around naked with bones in your nose?
Why haven't you answered this?
And oh, you might want to take that bone out of your nose, while typing the answer, if there's one forthcoming. It will allow your punk slave ass to breath a lot better.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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----------------------- Hey argy turd, tell us; why do wear cloths styled along that of "Powder"...or are you roaming around naked with bones in your nose? -----------------------
LOL LOL LOL!! Again this is from a West African. (Mauritania, Morocco, Mali, Algeria, Burkino Faso, and Niger not included of course)
You're suffering from PSIWTS, thinking that you're some psychic.
Tell me, did you get your nose bone from out of ass bone of your slave-breeded troglodyte of a mother or what?
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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You mean the Turks or the Japs, who "own" your cotton pickin' slave ass?
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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I'm still expecting an answer from your low brow slave ass on the question I just asked. What's keeping you; is it your slave-breeded pee brain that your "Powda" masta urinated on that's holding you back?
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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You mean the Turks or the Japs, who "own" your cotton pickin' slave ass? --------------------------
LOL this boy has got slavery on his brain doesn't he? You'll be ok. I'm sure the U.N. has stopped the rest of the world from going in a getting your people. : )
PS. I'm sorry that your mama is up in North Africa serving people up their topless with her new invention.
You know the one that allows her to attach salt shakers on her titties so she doesn't have to use her hands when she serves her owners.
Has your Powda masta bruised your cotton pickin' boney slave-breeded pickaninny ass so bad from whippin', that you can't answer a simple question asked of you, slave-breeded negro dork? Lol.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Are you some jobless foodstamp humping uncle tom hypocrite denigrating science as the "Powda's" thing, all the while you're wearing cloths which were tailored around "Powda's" clothing style as we speak, not to mention sitting near a computer using technology that "Powda" has had input...or are you roaming around naked, with a bone sticking out of your flared nostrils?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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------------------------- Has your Powda masta bruised your cotton pickin' boney slave-breeded pickaninny ass so bad from whippin', that you can't answer a simple question asked of you, slave-breeded negro dork? Lol. -------------------------
hahahaheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
You're the one that is a West African. (Mauritania, Morocco, Mali, Algeria, Burkino Faso, and Niger not included of course) So you're more apt to answer your question yourself. : )
That's the reason why no one else on the planet wants to be associated with you.
Who can better answer from a slave mindset, than to actually ask a slave, like yourself. Surely, you don't think the reason you are where you are, is because you came voluntarily, do you? Or are you again, like your figment of who I am, as a person you've never met, deluded about that fact, by your PSIWTS?
Btw, hows your troglodyte of a mother's fungified cunt coming?
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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No West African, you're the one who has it on your brain. Besides if I was a slave like you and your West African peoples, I wouldn't be able to say the following:
Your arms are stank Your fade is shot When you breathe with your mouth Your breath is rot
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