quote:Originally posted by Myra Wysinger: The Image of the Black in Western Art , vol. 1, from the Pharaohs to the Fall of the Roman Empire, Cambridge, Mass: Harvard University Press, 1976
posted
Puppy posters be advised to read past threads before commenting.
quote:Originally posted by akoben08:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: This whole thread is ridiculous. First of all, Clyde started out that Greeks were black Africans, specifically those from Classical times were black. LOL
I never said the Classical Greeks were African. There were Blacks in Greece during the Classical Period of Pelasgian origin,
Mary does this to everybody it seems....
^This means YOU.
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: Greek Art
They look like 'mulattos' lol just kidding.
Greeks are European, modern Greece is European, and ancient Greece was European, but major components of ancient Aegian arts (math, science, language), culture, and ancestry were foreign.
While your pictures are cute, modern Greeks are not a genetic nor necissarily a physical replica of ancient Greeks - the more Northerly Turkish, Albanian, Vlach, Slavic, Visigoth, and Bulgar, incursions/intrusions into the Balkan region inevitably left some genetic impact.
Non-European influences
Linguistically and Script:
They borrowed their alphabet from the Phoenicians and a lot of their words from Kemet - there are a list of words that have survived to this day in English that are Kemetian in origin, resulting from the Roman (which borrowed from Greece) colonization of Europe.
Genetically:
Their most common lineage originated in East "sub-Saharan" Africa and in Greece dates back to the Neolithic.
The Neo-lithic or New Stone-Age refers to the advent of farming cultures (which both precede and lay the foundations for Bronze Age cultures and 'Civilization' in general).
[*]Greeks also have Benin Sickle Cell that dates to around this time:
(^Which by the way - as you probably know - a few AE Phaorohs had as well.)
In fact, here are citations from a few scientific studies - just read the bolded:
*
"The expansion of Neolithic farmers from the Middle East into Europe is also represented in the NRY (Y chromosomal) data, although suggesting a relatively localized area of impact. As mentioned before in relation to African NRY history, a Mesolithic population carrying Group III lineages with the M35}M215 mutation expanded northwards from sub-Saharan to north Africa and the Levant (Fig. 3g). The Levantine population of farmers that dispersed into Europe during and after the Neolithic carried these African Group III M35} M215 lineages, together with a cluster of (West Asian) Group VI lineages characterized by M172 and M201 mutations (Fig. 3h). " - Underhill et al 2001, Phylogeny of Y chromosome Binary Haplotypes and the Origins of Modern Human Populations [link]
*
In greater detail (read the bolded) on cranial affinities:
*
"The surprise is that the Neolithic peoples of Europe and their Bronze Age successors are not closely [cranially] related to the modern inhabitants although the prehistoric/modern ties are somewhat more apparent in southern Europe. It is a further surprise that the Epipalaeolithic Natufian of Israel from whom the Neolithic realm was assumed to arise has a clear link to sub-Saharan Africa."
"Interestingly enough, however, the small Natufian sample falls between the Niger-Congo group and the other samples used. Fig. 2 shows the plot produced by the first two canonical variates, but the same thing happens when canonical variates 1 and 3 (not shown here) are used. This suggests that there may have been a sub-Saharan African element in the make-up of the Natufians — the putative ancestors of the subsequent Neolithic"
"If the late Pleistocene Natufian sample from Israel is the source from which that Neolithic spread was derived, there was clearly a sub-Saharan African element present of almost equal importance as the Late Prehistoric Eurasian element. At the same time, the failure of the Neolithic and Bronze Age samples in central and northern Europe to tie to the modern inhabitants supports the suggestion that, while a farming mode of subsistence was spread westward and also north to Crimea and east to Mongolia by actual movement of communities of farmers, the indigenous foragers in each of those areas ultimately absorbed both the agricultural subsistence strategy and also the people who had brought it. The interbreeding of the incoming Neolithic people with the in situ foragers diluted the sub-Saharan traces that may have come with the Neolithic spread so that no discoverable element of that remained. This picture of a mixture between the incoming farmers and the in situ foragers had originally been supported by the archaeological record alone (6, 9, 32-33, 47-48), but this is now reinforced by the analysis of the skeletal morphology of the people of those areas where prehistoric and recent remains can be metrically compared." - Brace et al 2005
*
"One can identify Negroid traits appearing in Natufian latest hunters and in Anatolian and Macedonian first farmers, probably from nubia." - Larry Angel
*
Response to bernal and Snowden SOY Keita Arethusa 26 (1993) pg 329
"I was a student of Larry Angel and am in some postion to comment on his views, which I know from conversation, the literature and personal correspondnce."
"Angel also found evidence for a "black" (if such exists) genetic influence in neolithic and later Aegean populations. Racialists models, which imply non-overlapping gene pools, are clearly negated by Angel's work."
quote:Originally posted by Myra Wysinger: Heracles and Busiris King of the Delta
Caeretan black-figure hydria, Late Archaic Greek, c. 510 B.C. Vienna Kunsthistorisches Museum, ANSA IV 3576.
Drawing: A. Furtwangler und K. Reichhold, Griechische Vasenmalerei; Auswahl hervorragender Vasenbilder (Miinchen, 1904), PI. 51.
Busiris was a legendary king in the Delta who, according to a Greek tradition, habitually slaughtered foreigners entering his country and sacrificed them to Zeus, until he vainly tried to do this to Heracles. The vase shows Heracles destroying Busiris and his priests. Various details refer to the customs and clothing of Egypt with remarkable precision.
A group of Egyptians hastens to come to the aid of the king, shown on the back of the vase. They have the usual equipment of Egyptian guards.
By Samuel David Ewing
This art reveals the Greek Herakles as an enormously muscled black African giant who is crushing evildoers beneath his feet, strangling and breaking the necks of evildoers with his barehands, as well as by trapping their throats between his elbow and bicep region, in his left hand he is holding a man in the air by his left ankle using the super-human might of his left arm, and finally the rest of the evildoers are fleeing from the Greek Herakles in terror. The story has to do with Herakles putting a stop to human sacrifices which were instituted by an evil group of cultist under the direction of King Busiris of Egypt. Heracles allowed them to attempt to use him as a sacrifice, then at the right moment he broke his bonds, slaying 1000 cultists including the king. The story resembles that told of Samson. The point to be emphasized here is that the Greek Herakles was originally thought of as a black man by the ancient Greek peoples before his features were altered by the later Eurocentric influence centuries later.
The Greek Heracles as a black man on this hydria is shown slaying black men (Egyptians ) who have features like himself, such as black skin, flat nose, flaring nostrils, large lips, and the wooly textured hair of Hamites. This same Herakles is also shown slaying fair skinned Greeks, and Europeans, the difference between these opponents and Herakles the black man leaves know room for doubt concerning who is of what race.
Martin Bernall, author of Black Athena, vol. 1, pages 476- 477 has this to say about this particular hydria; ". . . . . While both point out that Bousiris has black attendants and that Bousiris himself is portrayed as one on another vase, neither Boardman nor Snowden (1970, p.159 ) mentions the fact that the 'Greek hero Herakles' is depicted as a curly-haired African Black. This is something that the Aryan Model is completely unable to handle. I would like to add that I have seen photo-prints of this vase myself therefore I know Martin Bernall is telling the truth! Finally apparently it isn't mentioned that an equal amount of Bousiris' attendants on this vase are obviously European. [Source]
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quote:Originally posted by Tyrannosaurus: ^ IIRC, I've seen another version of this image in which Hercules is given medium brown as opposed to black skin. The Egyptians still had black skin though.
Are there any other ancient Greek depictions of ancient Egyptians? The only other image I know of is this:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The Mycenaeans were not white. Homer claimed that Mycenae was ruled by Agamemnon. In the Iliad Agamemnon is decribed as xanthos, which means brown in Greek, not white.Agamemnon is in direct descent from Epaphos, the Black ancestor of the Pelasgic house. Aeschylus in Prometheus Bound, describes Epaphos as "swarthy of hue" and that he originally lived in Africa. The Pelasgians were the first settlers of Greecian region.
The Olympian creation myth, as recorded by Pindar in Fragment,and Apollonius Rhodius, says the Garamantes from Africa colonized Greece. Their descendants were called Carians. The Greek writers claimed that Pelasgus, the ancestor of the Pelasgians was the first man. The Pelasgians were from diverse Black tribes the: Achaeans,Kadmeans, and Leleges.Hyainus in Fabula, and Apollonius Rhodius said the Danaans were Africans.
Are you saying that your ancestors are lying about the African roots of Greece. Please present evidence that Apollonius, Homer, Hyainus, Plutarch, Ovid,and Herodutus are lying about the African origin of Greecian civilization?
Cite evidence these Classical writers were wrong.
This is roughly the same view Martin Bernal has. Is that the source you're using? Have you bought his linguistic book yet?
This is not the same view as Bernal He believes these people were Jews.
I have not read the linguistics book--I may buy it when it cost less. Interestingly, I have not seen any reviews of the book have you?
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I was talking about what the ancients had to say about the original inhabitants. I'll check the book to make sure though because I haven't read it in a while.
Posts: 1219 | From: North Carolina, USA | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Dr. Winters wrote about this at least as far back as the early 1980's. I first read him on it in a quarterly periodical Afrique Histoire long before anybody knew what a Bernal was.
Dr. Winters is informed on the subject from the tradition of Middle Passage Descent writers like Parker, DuBois, Rogers et al. (Graves, a Euro, is also an excellent source in his The Greek Myths.)
Don't BAs/AAs have some kind of "parochial" schooling in place to teach themselves from their own sources from generation to generation? They have a great tradition of learning regarding ancient diasporic Africans and ther worldwide black peoples.
I mean one people can't expect to send their children off to school to another people and expect them to come back with any awareness or concern for their own.
This is one thing most all ethnic groups do, the ones who are successfully projecting and promoting their own interests whereever they are foreigners or minorities are forwarding their names, language, culture, heritage, clothing and cuisine along to their offspring.
quote:Originally posted by King_Scorpion:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: The Mycenaeans were not white. Homer claimed that Mycenae was ruled by Agamemnon. In the Iliad Agamemnon is decribed as xanthos, which means brown in Greek, not white.Agamemnon is in direct descent from Epaphos, the Black ancestor of the Pelasgic house. Aeschylus in Prometheus Bound, describes Epaphos as "swarthy of hue" and that he originally lived in Africa. The Pelasgians were the first settlers of Greecian region.
The Olympian creation myth, as recorded by Pindar in Fragment,and Apollonius Rhodius, says the Garamantes from Africa colonized Greece. Their descendants were called Carians. The Greek writers claimed that Pelasgus, the ancestor of the Pelasgians was the first man. The Pelasgians were from diverse Black tribes the: Achaeans,Kadmeans, and Leleges.Hyainus in Fabula, and Apollonius Rhodius said the Danaans were Africans.
Are you saying that your ancestors are lying about the African roots of Greece. Please present evidence that Apollonius, Homer, Hyainus, Plutarch, Ovid,and Herodutus are lying about the African origin of Greecian civilization?
Cite evidence these Classical writers were wrong.
This is roughly the same view Martin Bernal has. Is that the source you're using? Have you bought his linguistic book yet?
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Egmond Codfried: BLACKS IN ANCIENT GREECE
Evergreen Writes:
Eurocentrists often use images of Egyptians with non-stereotypical African phenotype to make the case that AE was a "multi-cultural" society. These images likewise demonstrate that ancient Greece was "multi-cultural".
Posts: 2007 | From: Washington State | Registered: Oct 2006
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Its interesting how your nasty "Hot Indonesian chick" chasin dirty ass is always obsessing about AAs and the so called "middle passage". Your dirty sahel ass (that's if you're not lying about that, since you lie to yourself everyday that you're a real jew) mentions them and this so called "middle passage in damn near every post".
You need to stick to your fetish with flat assed, flat chested Indonesian whores that you pay off to lay with you.
This punk ass fake jew is so hard up to suck on some real titties, that he actually makes water ballons and sucks on the tie off knot.
posted
Hahahaahaaa, you're really funny. I'd pay to laugh at you in person. Where's your next comedy club engagement?
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Egmond Codfried: BLACKS IN ANCIENT GREECE
Evergreen Writes:
Eurocentrists often use images of Egyptians with non-stereotypical African phenotype to make the case that AE was a "multi-cultural" society. These images likewise demonstrate that ancient Greece was "multi-cultural".
Greece was by definition multi-cultural as it spanned 3 continents and many different nationalities and ethnicities. Most of Greece's expansive Empire lay OUTSIDE of Europe, which again means MOST people of ancient Greece WERE NOT Greeks. The only aspect of Greece was primarily Greek were the various ruling dynasties.
Likewise, the following map shows WHERE most of the cultural influences that formed ancient Greece originated:
Note how little of the Macedonian empire is IN Europe.
Posts: 8901 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): To add to those:
quote:Originally posted by Myra Wysinger: The Image of the Black in Western Art , vol. 1, from the Pharaohs to the Fall of the Roman Empire, Cambridge, Mass: Harvard University Press, 1976
Fig. 142
Fig. 147
Fig. 203
Fig. 204
.
lotta cool ass pictures..but uh..where are they from? Carthage or something?
Posts: 447 | From: Somewhere son... | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): To add to those:
quote:Originally posted by Myra Wysinger: The Image of the Black in Western Art , vol. 1, from the Pharaohs to the Fall of the Roman Empire, Cambridge, Mass: Harvard University Press, 1976
Fig. 142
Fig. 147
Fig. 203
Fig. 204
.
lotta cool ass pictures..but uh..where are they from? Carthage or something?
Posts: 447 | From: Somewhere son... | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Props!!!! Nice Design, need some pics on the web page. the pages are in alphabethical order but consdier rearranging to have the "main" interests on top.
Overall very good YH. Where do you go from here?
quote:Originally posted by Hri: ^ hey big bruv. Long time no speak, check this out:
This is like the second time, in quick successions, you're tying to get his attention. My god, you're like a child or a little puppy. You already brought him your bone; why not wait patiently for him to reply/pat you on the head? LOLOLOL
Posts: 4165 | From: jamaica | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Uh hum, that's the way you do it. You get your locked pages on the ol' Wiki. Way to go nephew. And homage to Tyro too. I'd a nevah thunk ...
quote:Originally posted by Hri: ^ hey big bruv. Long time no speak, check this out:
In the rush of setting up shop I didn't realise there was a more "detailed" permissions section where there is more flexibility and I've actually now set it up so even an "anonymous" user[ whois registered at Wikidot.com] can do pretty much anything on the site.
I cannot believe you would think I had dodgy intentions.
That's bad karma right there.
You're right. We Africans suffer from an "over-abundance" in altruism.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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This is like the second time, in quick successions, you're tying to get his attention. My god, you're like a child or a little puppy. You already brought him your bone; why not wait patiently for him to reply/pat you on the head? LOLOLOL
You're mostly right.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Well if you post the link to the thread you pulled the images I'm sure the provenances are given there.
I copied and pasted, the post fully intact, and someone indeed might have queried or answered query if it weren't for Woof-Weef's (Vida's) deliberate detracting..
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Nevermind. I found it here where I gave out the figures' full captions from the cited book.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Knowledgeiskey718: Umm, mind telling me, or sharing with the forum, what 'white' lineages Ethiopians have? I see you ignored the West African lineage too, is that part of your plan? Is there some magical way your fantasy erases genetic lineages?
East Africans and the Ancient Egyptians have a body plan described as Extremely tropically adapted,i.e,"Super Negroid". West Africans are just tropically adapted no Extreme. East Africans retain extreme tropical adaptations, which proves they're not highly mixed and their features can't be attributed to outside influence. If you say it is, why are East Africans still extremely tropically adapted and their skin can be as extremely dark as well?
If 'Caucasoid' genes exist, explain to me why South African Lembas show no features from the Middle East though they have J haplogroup at high frequencies, so-called "Caucasoid" mixture? So to you, what makes a 'Caucasoid'? Is it Genetically or skeletally?
R1 is present at frequencies of 20% in North Cameroon. So hmm, if 'Caucasoid' genes exist where are they in these populations, who have more admixture than East Africans?
Tutsis have ABSOLUTELY no west Asian admixture, yet exhibit "so called" Caucasoid features". Why?
You place far too much emphasis on single markers like Y-chromosomes and their frequencies. Geneticists don't agree with that approach:
"...the Y chromosome...is particularly influenced by drift. [...] Conclusions about populations on the basis of this single locus must therefore be made with caution."
" 'Genes on the mitochondrial genome or the Y chromosome don't unambiguously allow you to infer population history,' notes Andrew G. Clark, a biology professor at Pennsylvania State University. 'That's because there's a lot of stochasticity, a lot of chance, that goes on in sampling of those genomes from generation to generation...."
"Earlier we emphasized the importance of using a large number of loci in the study of human evolution. This is because...the evolution of a single gene (or mtDNA) is subject to large stochastic errors."
Using this vastly superior approach, they've found only negligible Sub-Saharan African influences in Europeans, but significant Western Eurasian influences in many East Africans.
Red = Sub-Saharan African Yellow = Western Eurasian Blue = Eastern Eurasian
Orange = Sub-Saharan African Blue = Western Eurasian Pink = Eastern Eurasian Green = Austro-Melanesian Purple = Native American
"Notably, 62% of the Ethiopians fall in the first cluster, which encompasses the majority of the Jews, Norwegians and Armenians, indicating that placement of these individuals in a 'Black' cluster would be an inaccurate reflection of the genetic structure. Only 24% of the Ethiopians are placed in the cluster with the Bantu and most of the Afro-Caribbeans."
A (blue) = Western Eurasian B (red) = Austro-Melanesian C (green) = Sub-Saharan African D (yellow) = Eastern Eurasian
This is probably because of M1 and U6 mitochondrial being classified as Eurasian. This has been discussed very thoroughly on this board. You might want to check them out.
Also, Africa and Eurasia are pseudo political borders so even if a population left African and went into the Levant then BACK into Africa that doesn't say much about their *appearance/morphology* really changing significantly
Posts: 343 | Registered: Feb 2008
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quote:This is probably because of M1 and U6 mitochondrial being classified as Eurasian. This has been discussed very thoroughly on this board. You might want to check them out.
Also, Africa and Eurasia are pseudo political borders so even if a population left African and went into the Levant then BACK into Africa that doesn't say much about their *appearance/morphology* really changing significantly
Might be the only sensible comment put forward by you, so far that I've seen.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Alive-(What Box): Puppy posters be advised to read past threads before commenting.
quote:Originally posted by akoben08:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: This whole thread is ridiculous. First of all, Clyde started out that Greeks were black Africans, specifically those from Classical times were black. LOL
I never said the Classical Greeks were African. There were Blacks in Greece during the Classical Period of Pelasgian origin,
Mary does this to everybody it seems....
^This means YOU.
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: Greek Art
They look like 'mulattos' lol just kidding.
Greeks are European, modern Greece is European, and ancient Greece was European, but major components of ancient Aegian arts (math, science, language), culture, and ancestry were foreign.
While your pictures are cute, modern Greeks are not a genetic nor necissarily a physical replica of ancient Greeks - the more Northerly Turkish, Albanian, Vlach, Slavic, Visigoth, and Bulgar, incursions/intrusions into the Balkan region inevitably left some genetic impact.
Non-European influences
Linguistically and Script:
They borrowed their alphabet from the Phoenicians and a lot of their words from Kemet - there are a list of words that have survived to this day in English that are Kemetian in origin, resulting from the Roman (which borrowed from Greece) colonization of Europe.
Genetically:
Their most common lineage originated in East "sub-Saharan" Africa and in Greece dates back to the Neolithic.
The Neo-lithic or New Stone-Age refers to the advent of farming cultures (which both precede and lay the foundations for Bronze Age cultures and 'Civilization' in general).
[*]Greeks also have Benin Sickle Cell that dates to around this time:
(^Which by the way - as you probably know - a few AE Phaorohs had as well.)
In fact, here are citations from a few scientific studies - just read the bolded:
*
"The expansion of Neolithic farmers from the Middle East into Europe is also represented in the NRY (Y chromosomal) data, although suggesting a relatively localized area of impact. As mentioned before in relation to African NRY history, a Mesolithic population carrying Group III lineages with the M35}M215 mutation expanded northwards from sub-Saharan to north Africa and the Levant (Fig. 3g). The Levantine population of farmers that dispersed into Europe during and after the Neolithic carried these African Group III M35} M215 lineages, together with a cluster of (West Asian) Group VI lineages characterized by M172 and M201 mutations (Fig. 3h). " - Underhill et al 2001, Phylogeny of Y chromosome Binary Haplotypes and the Origins of Modern Human Populations [link]
*
In greater detail (read the bolded) on cranial affinities:
*
"The surprise is that the Neolithic peoples of Europe and their Bronze Age successors are not closely [cranially] related to the modern inhabitants although the prehistoric/modern ties are somewhat more apparent in southern Europe. It is a further surprise that the Epipalaeolithic Natufian of Israel from whom the Neolithic realm was assumed to arise has a clear link to sub-Saharan Africa."
"Interestingly enough, however, the small Natufian sample falls between the Niger-Congo group and the other samples used. Fig. 2 shows the plot produced by the first two canonical variates, but the same thing happens when canonical variates 1 and 3 (not shown here) are used. This suggests that there may have been a sub-Saharan African element in the make-up of the Natufians — the putative ancestors of the subsequent Neolithic"
"If the late Pleistocene Natufian sample from Israel is the source from which that Neolithic spread was derived, there was clearly a sub-Saharan African element present of almost equal importance as the Late Prehistoric Eurasian element. At the same time, the failure of the Neolithic and Bronze Age samples in central and northern Europe to tie to the modern inhabitants supports the suggestion that, while a farming mode of subsistence was spread westward and also north to Crimea and east to Mongolia by actual movement of communities of farmers, the indigenous foragers in each of those areas ultimately absorbed both the agricultural subsistence strategy and also the people who had brought it. The interbreeding of the incoming Neolithic people with the in situ foragers diluted the sub-Saharan traces that may have come with the Neolithic spread so that no discoverable element of that remained. This picture of a mixture between the incoming farmers and the in situ foragers had originally been supported by the archaeological record alone (6, 9, 32-33, 47-48), but this is now reinforced by the analysis of the skeletal morphology of the people of those areas where prehistoric and recent remains can be metrically compared." - Brace et al 2005
*
"One can identify Negroid traits appearing in Natufian latest hunters and in Anatolian and Macedonian first farmers, probably from nubia." - Larry Angel
*
Response to bernal and Snowden SOY Keita Arethusa 26 (1993) pg 329
"I was a student of Larry Angel and am in some postion to comment on his views, which I know from conversation, the literature and personal correspondnce."
"Angel also found evidence for a "black" (if such exists) genetic influence in neolithic and later Aegean populations. Racialists models, which imply non-overlapping gene pools, are clearly negated by Angel's work."
quote:Originally posted by Myra Wysinger: Heracles and Busiris King of the Delta
Caeretan black-figure hydria, Late Archaic Greek, c. 510 B.C. Vienna Kunsthistorisches Museum, ANSA IV 3576.
Drawing: A. Furtwangler und K. Reichhold, Griechische Vasenmalerei; Auswahl hervorragender Vasenbilder (Miinchen, 1904), PI. 51.
Busiris was a legendary king in the Delta who, according to a Greek tradition, habitually slaughtered foreigners entering his country and sacrificed them to Zeus, until he vainly tried to do this to Heracles. The vase shows Heracles destroying Busiris and his priests. Various details refer to the customs and clothing of Egypt with remarkable precision.
A group of Egyptians hastens to come to the aid of the king, shown on the back of the vase. They have the usual equipment of Egyptian guards.
By Samuel David Ewing
This art reveals the Greek Herakles as an enormously muscled black African giant who is crushing evildoers beneath his feet, strangling and breaking the necks of evildoers with his barehands, as well as by trapping their throats between his elbow and bicep region, in his left hand he is holding a man in the air by his left ankle using the super-human might of his left arm, and finally the rest of the evildoers are fleeing from the Greek Herakles in terror. The story has to do with Herakles putting a stop to human sacrifices which were instituted by an evil group of cultist under the direction of King Busiris of Egypt. Heracles allowed them to attempt to use him as a sacrifice, then at the right moment he broke his bonds, slaying 1000 cultists including the king. The story resembles that told of Samson. The point to be emphasized here is that the Greek Herakles was originally thought of as a black man by the ancient Greek peoples before his features were altered by the later Eurocentric influence centuries later.
The Greek Heracles as a black man on this hydria is shown slaying black men (Egyptians ) who have features like himself, such as black skin, flat nose, flaring nostrils, large lips, and the wooly textured hair of Hamites. This same Herakles is also shown slaying fair skinned Greeks, and Europeans, the difference between these opponents and Herakles the black man leaves know room for doubt concerning who is of what race.
Martin Bernall, author of Black Athena, vol. 1, pages 476- 477 has this to say about this particular hydria; ". . . . . While both point out that Bousiris has black attendants and that Bousiris himself is portrayed as one on another vase, neither Boardman nor Snowden (1970, p.159 ) mentions the fact that the 'Greek hero Herakles' is depicted as a curly-haired African Black. This is something that the Aryan Model is completely unable to handle. I would like to add that I have seen photo-prints of this vase myself therefore I know Martin Bernall is telling the truth! Finally apparently it isn't mentioned that an equal amount of Bousiris' attendants on this vase are obviously European. [Source]
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quote:Originally posted by Tyrannosaurus: ^ IIRC, I've seen another version of this image in which Hercules is given medium brown as opposed to black skin. The Egyptians still had black skin though.
Are there any other ancient Greek depictions of ancient Egyptians? The only other image I know of is this:
Closeup:
[/QB]
The Greeks may have borrowed aspects from the Phoenicians and the Ancient Egyptians but in all actuality the Greeks would later rise and impact Egypt and the Phoenicians themselves by not only conquering but DOMINATING and having Hellenic Culture become the everyday norm. The Egyptians would replace their native tounge with Greek and write their language in a Greek Derived script. The Greeks were a brilliant people they didn't steal anything. They were also Eurocentric and saw themselves as white people...No Black Athena, No Black Geeks...its all lies Just as true as a White Egypt........... Look at the Greek vase art, and Sculpture to show how they say themselves
Posts: 8812 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Ah.... all this talk about what Greeks are or are-not. Why don't we just put up some pics shall we???
Here's a pic of my brother-in-law (my protege who is now a professional Computer Scientist ) with a totally Greek Girl he was dating (I taught him well ) back in 2004:
^^ Somebody tell me what "race" is that handsome young man and what "race" is that beautiful young chick???
Please bear in mind that that young man's father is AS BLACK AS NIGHT. Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Somebody tell me what "race" is that handsome young man and what "race" is that beautiful young chick???
NONE. Because there are no races. But I would say they look like they could come from a Caribbean "hispanic" country. I.e Puerto Rico or Dominican Republic.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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^Indeed. The interesting thing to me is how they look pretty much the same phenotypically (though the girl's greek nose is very telling of her origin).
The boy is from Guyana, the girl is Greek. In this crazy world of racism, the boy is black but the girl is white. Insane. Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Heru-(London's Finest): Ah.... all this talk about what Greeks are or are-not. Why don't we just put up some pics shall we???
Here's a pic of my brother-in-law (my protege who is now a professional Computer Scientist ) with a totally Greek Girl he was dating (I taught him well ) back in 2004:
^^ Somebody tell me what "race" is that handsome young man and what "race" is that beautiful young chick???
Please bear in mind that that young man's father is AS BLACK AS NIGHT.
Damn your whole family is self hating and loves whitey. Typical Nigerian smh shame shame Posts: 152 | Registered: Sep 2008
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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lol just kidding.
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) with a totally Greek Girl he was dating (I taught him well 
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