posted
I see alot of "anglo-saxons" aka celtic iberians both here in Australia and in the US who are fascinated by egypt and equally roman and greek culture but take almost no interest in the culture of their forebearers?
With the exception of of a few new age types? and some interested in the la tene celtic culture of europe - noone appears to pay mind to the curious celts of the british isles.I personally am fascinated with it.
Australia is overwhelmingly anglo-saxon but there is not a single dept in "celtic history" its greece/rome/egypt across the country.... I must ask "wasp america and australia and canada etc" why are your ancestors at the sidelines?
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BBC - Sunday, 30 June, 2002, 15:31 GMT 16:31 UK English and Welsh are races apart
Gene scientists claim to have found proof that the Welsh are the "true" Britons. The research supports the idea that Celtic Britain underwent a form of ethnic cleansing by Anglo-Saxons invaders following the Roman withdrawal in the fifth century. It suggests that between 50% and 100% of the indigenous population of what was to become England was wiped out, with Offa's Dyke acting as a "genetic barrier" protecting those on the Welsh side. And the upheaval can be traced to this day through genetic differences between the English and the Welsh.
Academics at University College in London comparing a sample of men from the UK with those from an area of the Netherlands where the Anglo-Saxons are thought to have originated found the English subjects had genes that were almost identical. But there were clear differences between the genetic make-up of Welsh people studied. The research team studied the Y-chromosome, which is passed almost unchanged from father to son, and looked for certain genetic markers. They chose seven market towns mentioned in the Domesday Book of 1086 and studied 313 male volunteers whose paternal grandfather had also lived in the area. They then compared this with samples from Norway and with Friesland, now a northern province of the Netherlands. The English and Frisians studied had almost identical genetic make-up but the English and Welsh were very different.
The researchers concluded the most likely explanation for this was a large-scale Anglo-Saxon invasion, which devastated the Celtic population of England, but did not reach Wales. Dr Mark Thomas, of the Centre for Genetic Anthropology at UCL, said their findings suggested that a migration occurred within the last 2,500 years. It reinforced the idea that the Welsh were the true indigenous Britons. In April last year, research for a BBC programme on the Vikings revealed strong genetic links between the Welsh and Irish Celts and the Basques of northern Spain and south France. It suggested a possible link between the Celts and Basques, dating back tens of thousands of years. The UCL research into the more recent Anglo-Saxon period suggested a migration on a huge scale. "It appears England is made up of an ethnic cleansing event from people coming across from the continent after the Romans left," he said.
Archaeologists after the Second World War rejected the traditionally held view that an Anglo-Saxon invasion pushed the indigenous Celtic Britons to the fringes of Britain. Instead, they said the arrival of Anglo-Saxon culture could have come from trade or a small ruling elite. But the latest research by the UCL team, "using genetics as a history book", appears to support the original view of a large-scale invasion of England. It suggests that the Welsh border was more of a genetic barrier to the Anglo-Saxon Y chromosome gene flow than the North Sea. Dr Thomas added: "Our findings completely overturn the modern view of the origins of the English."
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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humanityiloveyou - You are however correct in one respect: There is VERY little research into the original civilizations of southwestern Europe (these people spread north). The research situation is so pathetic that this is the ONLY known AUTHENTIC image of an ancient Celt/Gaul.
quote:Originally posted by humanityiloveyou: I see alot of "anglo-saxons" aka celtic iberians both here in Australia and in the US who are fascinated by egypt and equally roman and greek culture but take almost no interest in the culture of their forebearers?
With the exception of of a few new age types? and some interested in the la tene celtic culture of europe - noone appears to pay mind to the curious celts of the british isles.I personally am fascinated with it.
Australia is overwhelmingly anglo-saxon but there is not a single dept in "celtic history" its greece/rome/egypt across the country.... I must ask "wasp america and australia and canada etc" why are your ancestors at the sidelines?
That's probably because Greeks and Romans are seen as "civilized" whereas the Celtic and Germanic people they conquered or tried to conquer were "barbarians". It is ironic, in a way, given these peoples were arguably whiter than the Greco-Romans.
You do have some interest in Germanic mythology; Beowulf (fine reading if you can plow through the archaic prose) is required reading in high schools all over the Anglophone world. The Celts, too, have their fans; has anyone heard of the Asterix comics? They're hilarious, and they've got Celts sticking it up to the Romans.
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by humanityiloveyou: I see alot of "anglo-saxons" aka celtic iberians both here in Australia and in the US who are fascinated by egypt and equally roman and greek culture but take almost no interest in the culture of their forebearers?
With the exception of of a few new age types? and some interested in the la tene celtic culture of europe - noone appears to pay mind to the curious celts of the british isles.I personally am fascinated with it.
Australia is overwhelmingly anglo-saxon but there is not a single dept in "celtic history" its greece/rome/egypt across the country.... I must ask "wasp america and australia and canada etc" why are your ancestors at the sidelines?
The point you bring up is very valid, the thing is in Western civilization.....if you didnt live in Grand Stone or Marble buildings.....Create your own philosophy...ect then you are somehow....Inferior or uncivil......White Supremist many of which decend from ancestors....who really played a VERY SMALL role in the ancient world(they DID play a Magnificent and uniqe role) are quick to throw the Greeks and Romans as sign of Supremacey from a people who Killed, Masucured, enslaved, slandered, raped...and HATED their ancestors...many white American would be hard pressed to even KNOW that the ancient celtic, La Tiene and Galatians are the TRUE ancestors. Also many white Americans that DO take pride in their true culture will be hard pressed to know of the achievments, social structure, knowledge their ancestors produced and contributed to the ancient world....places such as the Ancient site of Sakara Brea or the Irish Manuscripts that preserved Roman litereature....etc.
On the flip side how many African Americans actually take pride in their West African ancestors instead of the Ancient Egyptians and Nubians. How many African Americans know about Muhammed Askia Toure, Mansu Musa, Sundijiata, Sonni Ali, or Jenne Jenno or Timbuctou...THE REAL TIMBUCTOU...
How many African Americans think Mathmatics is a white mans thing when during the Golden Era of Songhai the Mathmatics being taught in Jenno was far advanced than anything in Europe(other than the few Spainish nations that didnt rid themselves of Islamic Scence and math.)....or how many African Americans know that their ancestors produced Iron and Brone, Produced cities built of stone, straw, stucco...ect.
I have never seen on Afrocentric book on West African achievements....
Also the very few (good) books that are on celtic or scandanavian cultures are from Europe....The ones I own are great.....Its funny becuase one writer in the celtic book says in the book.."Imagine if the Celts are destoyed Rome...We would be using a "Celtic Script"...or something like that...LOL...WHAT CELTIC SCRIPT....The ROMANS GAVE the celts their script...The other guy on the scandanavians is like...Yeah they didnt write their own language...SO WHAT!!!! LOL....its kinda funny...Sort of an inferioty complex I guess....Like your a savage if you didnt "Invent" a written script...LOL. Hell Im GLAD 100 percent the Malians and Song Hai adopted the Arabic script.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Actually, the history of West African kingdoms IS part of many good books on African history and it is definitely part of the Afrocentric curriculum or African Studies curriculum in University. The CONFUSION here is one where African historians are equated with WHITE historians as EQUALLY motivated by racism. WRONG. The thread title hits the nail right on the head, because WHITES are the ones trying to identify with something that THEIR ancestors had nothing to do with. They PURPOSELY distort the history of many parts of the world BECAUSE they know their ancestors had VERY LITTLE to do with it. And ALL of it is in support of the nationalist racist agenda of white supremacy. Therefore, Africans can NEVER be on the same level of whites who have been raping, killing, destroying and LYING about almost EVERY black civilization they have come across in the last 500 years. White historians have distorted ALL African history, not JUST that of the Nile Valley. This includes East Africa, West Africa, the Sahara, Central Africa and South Africa. And it is BECAUSE of this that African scholars are waging an ONGOING battle to correct the history of ALL of Africa, not just Egypt. It is also because of this that LITTLE of Africa's TRUE history PRIOR to the arrival of Europeans is really known. Africans were NOT living in poverty and squalor, unable to figure out how to put FOOD in their mouths before Europeans came. In many cases, the way Africans lived PRIOR to the arrival of Europeans is QUITE DIFFERENT from the way they lived AFTER Europeans. THIS is what the historians are trying to uncover and this is precisely what the Europeans are TRYING TO HIDE.
By now, you should understand that Europeans are on a QUEST to make a history for themselves that has NO BASIS in reality and is ALL based on their SICK concept of might makes right, which allows them to TAKE history and MAKE it what they want, regardless of whether or not it is THEIRS or not.
Europeans, being the BIGGEST THIEVES, murderers, racists, warmongers, savages and rapists ON THE PLANET, want NOTHING LESS than to be worshipped as GOD'S gift to mankind. THAT is the whole purpose of their PROPAGANDA machine, which CONSTANTLY bombards you with how GOOD white civilization is how it is built on VALUES and how those VALUES make them RIGHTEOUS and WORTHY of all the things they have acquired. But in reality WE ALL KNOW that the VALUES that got them where they are ARE NOT GOOD in ANY SENSE of the term. In fact, MOST blacks are simply CAUGHT UP in trying to LIVE the fantasy of a BETTER LIFE as promised by white propaganda and some REFUSE to see ANYTHING different even when it has a FOOT square in their *sses.
Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by humanityiloveyou: I see alot of "anglo-saxons" aka celtic iberians both here in Australia and in the US who are fascinated by egypt and equally roman and greek culture but take almost no interest in the culture of their forebearers?
With the exception of of a few new age types? and some interested in the la tene celtic culture of europe - noone appears to pay mind to the curious celts of the british isles.I personally am fascinated with it.
Australia is overwhelmingly anglo-saxon but there is not a single dept in "celtic history" its greece/rome/egypt across the country.... I must ask "wasp america and australia and canada etc" why are your ancestors at the sidelines?
That's probably because Greeks and Romans are seen as "civilized" whereas the Celtic and Germanic people they conquered or tried to conquer were "barbarians". It is ironic, in a way, given these peoples were arguably whiter than the Greco-Romans.
You do have some interest in Germanic mythology; Beowulf (fine reading if you can plow through the archaic prose) is required reading in high schools all over the Anglophone world. The Celts, too, have their fans; has anyone heard of the Asterix comics? They're hilarious, and they've got Celts sticking it up to the Romans.
T-rex provided the very answer to the topic question. It is precisely because of Eurocentric doctrines that those of Northwestern European descent take no pride in their true historical heritage. This is moreso true for those of the colonial descendants of North America and Australia than for peoples of Northwest Europe proper where pride in their heritage is much stronger. For example, another great original Germanic work is the saga Nibelungenlied or the 'Song of the Nibelungs' one story of which is the 'Ring Saga' from which J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings is based on. A similar saga among the Celtic people would be the Ulster Cycle of Ireland and the hero epic Finn McCuhl. Obviously these epics have as much influence today as Greek works like the Iliad and Odessy, as can be seen in Tolkien's work, but stories alone are just the tip of the ice berg when it comes to the contributions of these so-called 'barbarians' who were the direct ancestors of most colonial Westerners today.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: The point you bring up is very valid, the thing is in Western civilization.....if you didnt live in Grand Stone or Marble buildings.....Create your own philosophy...ect then you are somehow....Inferior or uncivil......White Supremist many of which decend from ancestors....who really played a VERY SMALL role in the ancient world(they DID play a Magnificent and uniqe role) are quick to throw the Greeks and Romans as sign of Supremacey from a people who Killed, Masucured, enslaved, slandered, raped...and HATED their ancestors...many white American would be hard pressed to even KNOW that the ancient celtic, La Tiene and Galatians are the TRUE ancestors. Also many white Americans that DO take pride in their true culture will be hard pressed to know of the achievments, social structure, knowledge their ancestors produced and contributed to the ancient world....places such as the Ancient site of Sakara Brea or the Irish Manuscripts that preserved Roman litereature....etc.
The problem is how does living in grand stone or marble structures necessarily correlate with developing philosophy?? Is not philosophic thought based soley on the works of the mind and intellectual inquiry and conjecture alone?? Certainly the Celts and Germanic peoples had philosophies of thier own, why discount them because they were not as 'urban' as their Mediterranean counterparts. Again this goes back to Eurocentric Doctrines 2-4:
#2 TECHNOLOGICAL CALIBRATION DOCTRINE: Insists on forcing archaeological finds as well as living cultures into a grid of "development" based on whether tools, materials and techniques valued by "Western" scholars were in use. Example: "They were a stone age civilization who never discovered the wheel!" This model forces cultures into a progressional paradigm: Old and New Stone Ages, Bronze Age, Iron Age, Industrial Revolution, Space Age. This classification ignores the complexity of culture, and the fact that metallurgic technology and military might are not the ultimate measure of advanced culture.
#3 STAGES OF DEVELOPMENT DOCTRINE: The assumption that "primitive" cultures represent lower "stages" in historical evolution, and have yet to attain advanced forms of culture. One English scholar referred to "the child-races of Africa." Usually, social hierarchy, militarization and industrialization are taken as prime measures of "advanced" civilization. In the 19th century, scholars openly used the terms "savage," "barbarian," "civilized." Though these offensive words have (mostly) been dropped, the underlying assumptions are still quite influential. (For a good discussion of how the insistence on talking about "tribes" distorts African history, see http://www.africaaction.org/bp/ethall.htm.)
#4 SPREAD OF CIVILIZATION DOCTRINE: Credits all achievements to conquering empires, assuming their superiority in science, technology, and government. Adherents are usually incapable of perceiving advanced earth-friendly systems of land management, agronomy, medicine, collective social welfare networks, healing, astronomical knowledge, or profound philosophical traditions among peoples considered "primitive" by dominant "Western" standards.
quote:On the flip side how many African Americans actually take pride in their West African ancestors instead of the Ancient Egyptians and Nubians. How many African Americans know about Muhammed Askia Toure, Mansu Musa, Sundijiata, Sonni Ali, or Jenne Jenno or Timbuctou...THE REAL TIMBUCTOU...
How many African Americans think Mathmatics is a white mans thing when during the Golden Era of Songhai the Mathmatics being taught in Jenno was far advanced than anything in Europe(other than the few Spainish nations that didnt rid themselves of Islamic Scence and math.)....or how many African Americans know that their ancestors produced Iron and Brone, Produced cities built of stone, straw, stucco...ect.
I have never seen on Afrocentric book on West African achievements....
Also the very few (good) books that are on celtic or scandanavian cultures are from Europe....The ones I own are great.....Its funny becuase one writer in the celtic book says in the book.."Imagine if the Celts are destoyed Rome...We would be using a "Celtic Script"...or something like that...LOL...WHAT CELTIC SCRIPT....The ROMANS GAVE the celts their script...The other guy on the scandanavians is like...Yeah they didnt write their own language...SO WHAT!!!! LOL....its kinda funny...Sort of an inferioty complex I guess....Like your a savage if you didnt "Invent" a written script...LOL. Hell Im GLAD 100 percent the Malians and Song Hai adopted the Arabic script.
Unfortunately the answer is that simply many African Americans have unwittingly inherited these very same Eurocentric doctrines.
By the way, Malians, Songhai, and other West African civilizations have actually developed their own scripts.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Actually, these "models" of civilization are a farce when considering that ALL models of civil-ization originate outside of Europe. The model of UN CIVIL ization, justified by the so-called Greek 'philosophy' of might makes right is not. That is not civilization that is barbarism.
Bottom line, modes of human existence are based on culture. The ONLY thing that man needs to live on this planet is air, water and the fruits of the earth. EVERYTHING else is culture, in terms of HOW you relate to one another, the planet and the universe. THAT is what determines how you USE the earth and its resources. But in terms of the MOST successful lifestyle EVER LIVED by mankind, it is the HUNTER GATHERER. Hominids lived for hundreds of thousands, if not MILLIONS (counting cro-magnons, neanderthals and all the other pre HSS hominids) of years QUITE successfully, by simply being hunter gatherers and simple pastoralists. The CONCEIT of modern civilization is that it is the BEST and MOST SUCCESSFUL mode of living, when it is not. The MOST successful is that which lasts the LONGEST and by ANY measure, man has been living as a hunter gatherer for MOST of his existence on this planet. And this mode of living or survival strategy worked QUITE WELL, considering that it allowed man to populate the four corners of the earth, from the desert to the mountains, from the seas to the arctic, ALL without the benefit of computers, hi tech industries and everything else that we feel we "need" to live today.
Posts: 8889 | Registered: May 2005
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quote: On the flip side how many African Americans actually take pride in their West African ancestors instead of the Ancient Egyptians and Nubians. How many African Americans know about Muhammed Askia Toure, Mansu Musa, Sundijiata, Sonni Ali, or Jenne Jenno or Timbuctou...THE REAL TIMBUCTOU...
The West African kingdoms are part of the curriculum for 6th Grade (World History) courses around the U.S.
As early as the 1930's, Carter G. Woodson made the West African kingdoms part of his history text. Since then, the West African kingdoms have been included in any text dealing with Afro-American history.
Any AA that took Black History since the 1930's knew about the West African kingdoms.
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: The point you bring up is very valid, the thing is in Western civilization.....if you didnt live in Grand Stone or Marble buildings.....Create your own philosophy...ect then you are somehow....Inferior or uncivil......White Supremist many of which decend from ancestors....who really played a VERY SMALL role in the ancient world(they DID play a Magnificent and uniqe role) are quick to throw the Greeks and Romans as sign of Supremacey from a people who Killed, Masucured, enslaved, slandered, raped...and HATED their ancestors...many white American would be hard pressed to even KNOW that the ancient celtic, La Tiene and Galatians are the TRUE ancestors. Also many white Americans that DO take pride in their true culture will be hard pressed to know of the achievments, social structure, knowledge their ancestors produced and contributed to the ancient world....places such as the Ancient site of Sakara Brea or the Irish Manuscripts that preserved Roman litereature....etc.
The problem is how does living in grand stone or marble structures necessarily correlate with developing philosophy?? Is not philosophic thought based soley on the works of the mind and intellectual inquiry and conjecture alone?? Certainly the Celts and Germanic peoples had philosophies of thier own, why discount them because they were not as 'urban' as their Mediterranean counterparts. Again this goes back to Eurocentric Doctrines 2-4:
#2 TECHNOLOGICAL CALIBRATION DOCTRINE: Insists on forcing archaeological finds as well as living cultures into a grid of "development" based on whether tools, materials and techniques valued by "Western" scholars were in use. Example: "They were a stone age civilization who never discovered the wheel!" This model forces cultures into a progressional paradigm: Old and New Stone Ages, Bronze Age, Iron Age, Industrial Revolution, Space Age. This classification ignores the complexity of culture, and the fact that metallurgic technology and military might are not the ultimate measure of advanced culture.
#3 STAGES OF DEVELOPMENT DOCTRINE: The assumption that "primitive" cultures represent lower "stages" in historical evolution, and have yet to attain advanced forms of culture. One English scholar referred to "the child-races of Africa." Usually, social hierarchy, militarization and industrialization are taken as prime measures of "advanced" civilization. In the 19th century, scholars openly used the terms "savage," "barbarian," "civilized." Though these offensive words have (mostly) been dropped, the underlying assumptions are still quite influential. (For a good discussion of how the insistence on talking about "tribes" distorts African history, see http://www.africaaction.org/bp/ethall.htm.)
#4 SPREAD OF CIVILIZATION DOCTRINE: Credits all achievements to conquering empires, assuming their superiority in science, technology, and government. Adherents are usually incapable of perceiving advanced earth-friendly systems of land management, agronomy, medicine, collective social welfare networks, healing, astronomical knowledge, or profound philosophical traditions among peoples considered "primitive" by dominant "Western" standards.
quote:On the flip side how many African Americans actually take pride in their West African ancestors instead of the Ancient Egyptians and Nubians. How many African Americans know about Muhammed Askia Toure, Mansu Musa, Sundijiata, Sonni Ali, or Jenne Jenno or Timbuctou...THE REAL TIMBUCTOU...
How many African Americans think Mathmatics is a white mans thing when during the Golden Era of Songhai the Mathmatics being taught in Jenno was far advanced than anything in Europe(other than the few Spainish nations that didnt rid themselves of Islamic Scence and math.)....or how many African Americans know that their ancestors produced Iron and Brone, Produced cities built of stone, straw, stucco...ect.
I have never seen on Afrocentric book on West African achievements....
Also the very few (good) books that are on celtic or scandanavian cultures are from Europe....The ones I own are great.....Its funny becuase one writer in the celtic book says in the book.."Imagine if the Celts are destoyed Rome...We would be using a "Celtic Script"...or something like that...LOL...WHAT CELTIC SCRIPT....The ROMANS GAVE the celts their script...The other guy on the scandanavians is like...Yeah they didnt write their own language...SO WHAT!!!! LOL....its kinda funny...Sort of an inferioty complex I guess....Like your a savage if you didnt "Invent" a written script...LOL. Hell Im GLAD 100 percent the Malians and Song Hai adopted the Arabic script.
Unfortunately the answer is that simply many African Americans have unwittingly inherited these very same Eurocentric doctrines.
By the way, Malians, Songhai, and other West African civilizations have actually developed their own scripts.
Its amazing how Eurocentrism has totally distorted history to the point where their very own ancestors are ignored. As someone mentioned the only whites that take pride in indigenous Nordic Achievements such as the tales of Finn McChaul(a story I have read) and other Scandinavian Sagas which if you read some of the earliest which mainly date from the Christian period in Scandinavia make no or little references to Greece or Rome...or to some supreme white race..
I doubt that the ancient Nordics were racist.
As far as white supremacy goes...Its a very illogical doctrine due to the fact that so much of western civilization is based on Eastern and African achievements where 80 percent of the achievers were non whites or "Arab" or people that practice a religion (Islam) that even presidential candidate Barack Obama has to distance himself from shows how people view Muslims as Barbaric in the West. The fact that people actually believe in such Foolishness as a Supreme race is beyond me....
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
^ That's because Eurocentricism itself is one gigantic propaganda machine perpetuated by those in cultural power to maintain their power. It comes to show that Eurocentrism not only hurts non-European peoples but even Europeans themselves!
Finn McChul by the way, is an Irish epic. I have read many stories and know many things about Celtic and Norse peoples than most Euro-Americans have even heard, and I'm not even white! Ain't that said. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: By the way, Malians, Songhai, and other West African civilizations have actually developed their own scripts.
Could you please cite a source for this? My impression what they used the Arabic script as well as an oral tradition.
BTW, writing, while certainly useful, is not essential to a civilization. Andean civilization in South America got on perfectly fine without writing.
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: By the way, Malians, Songhai, and other West African civilizations have actually developed their own scripts.
Could you please cite a source for this? My impression what they used the Arabic script as well as an oral tradition.
BTW, writing, while certainly useful, is not essential to a civilization. Andean civilization in South America got on perfectly fine without writing.
South American civilizations are not a good example, because of the fact that they built monumental structures BEFORE they learned to make Pottery. This suggests that elements of their civilization were borrowed.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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By now, you should understand that Europeans are on a QUEST to make a history for themselves that has NO BASIS in reality and is ALL based on their SICK concept of might makes right, which allows them to TAKE history and MAKE it what they want, regardless of whether or not it is THEIRS or not.
Which is what drives this fanatically-Eurocentric fellow to say something like this in an earlier discussion:
Doesn't matter what you give a hoot about, you are not important. Fact is, it is taught as a near eastern society whether you like it or not. - Horemheb
----------------------------------------- On the flip side how many African Americans actually take pride in their West African ancestors instead of the Ancient Egyptians and Nubians. -----------------------------------------
And why shouldn't AAs take pride in Ancient Egyptians and the so called "Nubians"?
You're not much of a scholar aren't you? Because anyone with minimal intellect and research abilities knows that AA ancestry comprises of northern, southern, eastern, and western Africans.
Just a word of advice. You shouldn't put on display an intellect, mentality, or dogma that gives people the impression that you are on the lower level of the intellectual spectrum.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ That's because Eurocentricism itself is one gigantic propaganda machine perpetuated by those in cultural power to maintain their power. It comes to show that Eurocentrism not only hurts non-European peoples but even Europeans themselves!
Finn McChul by the way, is an Irish epic. I have read many stories and know many things about Celtic and Norse peoples than most Euro-Americans have even heard, and I'm not even white! Ain't that said.
I have a book that is a collection of Norse, Classic, and Celtic myths so I tend to blend the civlizations over. The Norse and Celts were no fools they had indiginous cultures that are worth mentioning the sad thing is they scholars always try to compare the culture o Northern Europe to that of Greece, Egypt, or Rome...Civlizations which ooutshine them. Like I said inferiority complex.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by argyle104: Jari-Ankhamun wrote:
First off, what AA do or take pride in is not of my concern, My stance is valid becuase I don't decend from Egyptians or Nubian...I as most AA decend from a west African ancestor. I take full pride in Egyptian Nilotic culture but I take MORE pride in the Achivements of Mali and songhai...Two cultures majority of AA don't even know about.
As far as showing Intellect, I can assure you Intellegence and the likes of you don't mix. If you did have even a shred of the intellegence I had you would be on here being productive rather than being the bigges cock sucking fag on this site....
To tell you the truth you bore me, until a few moments ago I had no clue of your existance on this site due to the vast amount of non sense you must spew out of your filthy nut sucking mouth. Unlike Djhuti, Alive, Al Tukruri..ect your not very intellegent and it shows dude....
Yeah its pathetic....
So the next time you decide to waste my time boy, realise no one really likes you...and no one really cares or even reads what your retarded arse types(Unless your talking your usual troll B.****)
So please realize the difference between a Man, and a person typing idle threats behind a computer screen on the internet....
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Tyrann0saurus: Could you please cite a source for this? My impression what they used the Arabic script as well as an oral tradition.
I have read a couple of books on it before and unfortunately despite my searching for the past couple of days I could not find any sources online. What I do know is that before Arabic, the Songhai people used the Berber script Tifinagh, but recent archaeological excavations have revealed that in the tombs of the first dynasties there seemed to have been some form of pictographic or hieroglyphic script that is of course untranslated.
quote:BTW, writing, while certainly useful, is not essential to a civilization. Andean civilization in South America got on perfectly fine without writing.
Of course you don't need to write to build things, but the ancient Andeans did have other alternative forms of mass communication besides writing as seen here.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun: First off, what AA do or take pride in is not of my concern, My stance is valid becuase I don't decend from Egyptians or Nubian...I as most AA decend from a west African ancestor. I take full pride in Egyptian Nilotic culture but I take MORE pride in the Achivements of Mali and songhai...Two cultures majority of AA don't even know about.
He does not even know what he's talking about over 90% of the time. For example, he just said the ancestors of AAs come from all over the African continent when in fact the vast majority of African American ancestry is from West and Central Africa, with a some from Southern Africa and only relatively few from Eastern or Northern Africa per historical documentation as well as recent genetic studies, but I forgot he doesn't believe in such valid studies.
Indeed. I fail to understand why a white british boy would be so consumed over AAs and their issues! He talks like he is somehow the spokesperson of African Americans or something when he is just a nasty degenerate white male brit.
quote:As far as showing Intellect, I can assure you Intellegence and the likes of you don't mix. If you did have even a shred of the intellegence I had you would be on here being productive rather than being the bigges cock sucking fag on this site....
To tell you the truth you bore me, until a few moments ago I had no clue of your existance on this site due to the vast amount of non sense you must spew out of your filthy nut sucking mouth. Unlike Djhuti, Alive, Al Tukruri..ect your not very intellegent and it shows dude....
Yeah its pathetic....
Indeed, yet the fool still lingers around this forum like a bad odor along with the rest of his boyfriends-- Akobago (gay nazi) and Xyzboy.
quote:So the next time you decide to waste my time boy, realise no one really likes you...and no one really cares or even reads what your retarded arse types(Unless your talking your usual troll B.****)
So please realize the difference between a Man, and a person typing idle threats behind a computer screen on the internet....
Good luck with that Jari! LOLPosts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote: On the flip side how many African Americans actually take pride in their West African ancestors instead of the Ancient Egyptians and Nubians. How many African Americans know about Muhammed Askia Toure, Mansu Musa, Sundijiata, Sonni Ali, or Jenne Jenno or Timbuctou...THE REAL TIMBUCTOU...
The West African kingdoms are part of the curriculum for 6th Grade (World History) courses around the U.S.
As early as the 1930's, Carter G. Woodson made the West African kingdoms part of his history text. Since then, the West African kingdoms have been included in any text dealing with Afro-American history.
Any AA that took Black History since the 1930's knew about the West African kingdoms.
.
Co-signs. Even here in the Mississippi Delta rural area of Mississippi students know about the West African kingdoms, but of course this took years to incorporate into the curriculum.
Posts: 2595 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote: First off, what AA do or take pride in is not of my concern
If that's so then why did you previously write:
quote: On the flip side how many African Americans actually take pride in their West African ancestors instead of the Ancient Egyptians and Nubians.
I figured out from your postings that you were dumb but damn, you actually raised the ceiling on your own stupidity. LOL
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote: For example, he just said the ancestors of AAs come from all over the African continent when in fact the vast majority of African American ancestry is from West and Central Africa, with a some from Southern Africa and only relatively few from Eastern or Northern Africa per historical documentation as well as recent genetic studies, but I forgot he doesn't believe in such valid studies.
Define West Africa.
Define Central Africa.
Folks, watch and see if he provides an answer. Afterall it shouldn't take much for someone that is a scholar to provide a basic definition of the two terms above.
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote: He does not even know what he's talking about over 90% of the time. For example, he just said the ancestors of AAs come from all over the African continent when in fact the vast majority of African American ancestry is from West and Central Africa, with a some from Southern Africa and only relatively few from Eastern or Northern Africa per historical documentation as well as recent genetic studies, but I forgot he doesn't believe in such valid studies.
Notice that Djehuti doesn't provide historical evidence or facts for his opinions and fantasies.
But let's just humor him just this one time. Per your statement above, African Americans come from all parts of Africa, so why are you getting upset when someone says that African American ancestry comes from all parts of Africa?
Are you not being a hypocrite? Or does that fact frighten you because it means that people who you think should not associate with certain parts of Africa, have more of a right to do so than your dirt phillopeeeno ass. LOL!
Posts: 3085 | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Djehuti wrote: ---------------------------------- the ancestors of AAs come from all over the African continent when in fact the vast majority of African American ancestry is from West and Central Africa, with a some from Southern Africa and only relatively few from Eastern or Northern Africa ----------------------------------
Why are you posting such Eurocentric pseudoscience? Are mentally ill? There is something very wrong with you.
Notice again his belief in the true negro.
Djehuti why don't you try explaining the following historical facts away.
The Guinea Coast of West Africa where the vast majority of slave trading posts were you idiot. Do you even know what the Guinea Coast is??
quote:Define Central Africa.
The Congo coast where the other slave trading posts were.
quote:Folks, watch and see if he provides an answer. Afterall it shouldn't take much for someone that is a scholar to provide a basic definition of the two terms above.
Of course I have answers, but apparently a moron like you does not realize that it doesn't take an actual scholar but someone with basic knowledge of American history to know such answers.
quote: Notice that Djehuti doesn't provide historical evidence or facts for his opinions and fantasies.
Wrong again, sodomist fool:
A more comprehensive map:
quote:But let's just humor him just this one time. Per your statement above, African Americans come from all parts of Africa, so why are you getting upset when someone says that African American ancestry comes from all parts of Africa?
LOL What makes you think I was upset?! I merely pointed out a fact that the vast majority of African American ancestry is from Western and Central Africa, which is true. This is not to say there is no North or East African ancestry at all, but it is very minimal.
quote:Are you not being a hypocrite? Or does that fact frighten you because it means that people who you think should not associate with certain parts of Africa, have more of a right to do so than your dirt phillopeeeno ass. LOL!
LMAO Why should I think blacks should not "associate" with other parts of Africa, you demented psycho?!! This is no more of an issue than whites of Northwestern European ancestry trying to associate with southern European cultures like Rome and especially Greece! Speaking of which as per the topic of this thread, why the hell are YOU a white Northwestern European still obsessing about other peoples heritages especially African Americans while ignoring your own!! ROTFLPosts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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This debauched boy-george cracks me up! Here we dedicate a thread to the true Celtic and Germanic heritage of Northwest Europeans and the twisted wanker from the UK still trolls on about African American ancestry! LOL
It's times like this that you wish Egyptsearch had an online psychiatrist! Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tyrann0saurus: has anyone heard of the Asterix comics? They're hilarious, and they've got Celts sticking it up to the Romans.
Asterix, Obelix, Getafix, Dogmatix and a host of other fixes... ah the good old days before the politics back home in Africa. I read hundreds of Asterix comic books.
Might go pick one up.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Its interesting that all you can do is post a pic of some made up chart as if that is supposed to counteract HISTORICAL documented evidence.
I just posted historical documented evidence and like someone that believes in racial hierarchy he posts up some chart that in his mind erases history. LOL
Checkout his earlier postings and you will find that he believes in the concept of true negro. Which is why he hates west Africans. He needs to believe that true negroes were slaves, so that he a dirty filthy phillopeeeno can have self-esteem.
Phillopeeeno, you can't beat history, you just can't. : )
quote:Gaygoyle999 wrote: Its interesting that all you can do is post a pic of some made up chart as if that is supposed to counteract HISTORICAL documented evidence.
I didn't post one but two pictures of actual maps contructed from actual scholarly studies of the slave trade. The second one from the University of Wisconsin, nutbag.
quote:I just posted historical documented evidence and like someone that believes in racial hierarchy he posts up some chart that in his mind erases history. LOL
You didn't post any documented evidence just 'google' links! LOL
And why the hell do you keep saying I believe in some "racial hierarchy"?!! What makes you say this?? I told you before to cite evidence of this false claim, but since it is false of course you can't.
quote:Checkout his earlier postings and you will find that he believes in the concept of true negro. Which is why he hates west Africans. He needs to believe that true negroes were slaves, so that he a dirty filthy phillopeeeno can have self-esteem.
LMAO Okay, then please feel free to actually quote any past posts I made which speak of "true negroes"! Can you please do that instead of just talking the same bullsh*t accusations?!
quote:Phillopeeeno, you can't beat history, you just can't. : )
Why should I, when I am a proponent of history you moron!! And again I am an American citizen who knows alot about American history including African Americans! Who are you, but a derranged sodomist Brit?!
quote:I think I'll spread more scholarship. See Below.
All I see links about various other peoples non of which has to do with African American slave ancestors! LOL
But again WHY oh WHY do you keep obsessing about African American ancestry in THIS thread about YOUR 'supposed' Northwest European ancestry?! Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Guys, it's obvious what we have here is another case of a degenerate white male (Gaygoyle) who is ashamed of his true Northwest European ancestry which is why he tries to hijack this thread with his nonsense trolls about African American ancestry when he is just know-scholarly nothing nitwit from the UK.
Let's keep the thread moving and ignore the wacky wanker for now. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^ Don't waste your time or typing Djehuti. He is a troll-baiter, like the other three horsemen (debunked, wolofi, akoben) idiots and worthless trolls.
Stop playing his stupid back and forth insult games and he'll go away.
-------------------- Dont be evil - Google Posts: 426 | From: Cali-for-nia | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
White Americans have been interested in Celtic history for centuries. Irish and Scottish Americans are very aware of their heritage.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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^ Oh really?? So what about English Americans?? Why is it Anglo-Americans seem to know more about Rome or Greece than say the Geats and Vikings who were their ancestors?
Tell me professor, what do you know about ancient Germanic culture and its contributions to modern 'Western' culture, since there are in fact many?
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I never said that Germans did not make valuable contributons to western civilization. The dual pillars of western civilization are Christianity and Greco-Roman culture. People in general know more about Rome and Greece because of that very reason. This is not 'Rocket Science' Djehuti. You yourself know much about them and my guess is you are neither Greek or Italian.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
^ The problem lies in the very definition of 'Western civilization'. We use 'western' as a code word for 'European' but let's see, Christianity as we know it originates from Southwest Asia NOT Europe. And as for Greco-Roman culture, many of the most power Western nations today are in Northern and Western Europe. Italy was left in the annals a while after the fall of Rome and poor old Greece is not discussed altogther long before then. And even then, the very roots of Greco-Roman civilization lie in Asia and Africa.
So what is 'Western' civilization but a bastardization of many cultural contributions, many of which are not European in origin?
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Thats true of any culture or civilization. Greco Roaman culture spread into northern Europe after the fall of Rome. Richard Fletcher has done great work on that subject in his book, 'The Barbarian Conversion.' The Roman Catholic church served to hold Europe together during the few centuries after the fall of Rome. Keep in mind also that Britain and Gaul were Roman provinces for several centuries. Greece itself may not have been mentioned but even today western civilization is built on a Greek foundation. Certanily christianity is not of european origin, Greco Roman culture was.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
^ That still doesn't seem to be a good excuse as to why the modern descendants of those so-called "barbarians" disregard their history and culture, OR why they are so admit that cultures like Egypt are one of their roots yet deny it is black African or vice-versa-- admit the Egyptians were black Africans yet deny their cultural roots to the 'West'.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
If Egypt is one of their roots it is a very very tiny root. I disagree that they disregard their heritage. Nobody can accuse the Germans of disregarding their heritage. The development of western civilization is an on going process that has lasted for 2,500 years and is not finished yet, it continues to evolve. Different groups had roles to play at various times.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
Great post Jari,I too question the emphasis with african americans on egypt instead of the rich history of ancient west africa [which I love] admittingly though alot of west and even [southern bantu] oral history places their own much eariler origins in nubia and egypt.
And yes it does seem true that what is commonly called the "wasp" in america or "anglo" here in australia do adore and study the history of their brief colonisers,it's culture which they inherited and expanded on instead of the britons from whom they descend.
It's very interesting.
quote:Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
quote:Originally posted by humanityiloveyou: I see alot of "anglo-saxons" aka celtic iberians both here in Australia and in the US who are fascinated by egypt and equally roman and greek culture but take almost no interest in the culture of their forebearers?
With the exception of of a few new age types? and some interested in the la tene celtic culture of europe - noone appears to pay mind to the curious celts of the british isles.I personally am fascinated with it.
Australia is overwhelmingly anglo-saxon but there is not a single dept in "celtic history" its greece/rome/egypt across the country.... I must ask "wasp america and australia and canada etc" why are your ancestors at the sidelines?
The point you bring up is very valid, the thing is in Western civilization.....if you didnt live in Grand Stone or Marble buildings.....Create your own philosophy...ect then you are somehow....Inferior or uncivil......White Supremist many of which decend from ancestors....who really played a VERY SMALL role in the ancient world(they DID play a Magnificent and uniqe role) are quick to throw the Greeks and Romans as sign of Supremacey from a people who Killed, Masucured, enslaved, slandered, raped...and HATED their ancestors...many white American would be hard pressed to even KNOW that the ancient celtic, La Tiene and Galatians are the TRUE ancestors. Also many white Americans that DO take pride in their true culture will be hard pressed to know of the achievments, social structure, knowledge their ancestors produced and contributed to the ancient world....places such as the Ancient site of Sakara Brea or the Irish Manuscripts that preserved Roman litereature....etc.
On the flip side how many African Americans actually take pride in their West African ancestors instead of the Ancient Egyptians and Nubians. How many African Americans know about Muhammed Askia Toure, Mansu Musa, Sundijiata, Sonni Ali, or Jenne Jenno or Timbuctou...THE REAL TIMBUCTOU...
How many African Americans think Mathmatics is a white mans thing when during the Golden Era of Songhai the Mathmatics being taught in Jenno was far advanced than anything in Europe(other than the few Spainish nations that didnt rid themselves of Islamic Scence and math.)....or how many African Americans know that their ancestors produced Iron and Brone, Produced cities built of stone, straw, stucco...ect.
I have never seen on Afrocentric book on West African achievements....
Also the very few (good) books that are on celtic or scandanavian cultures are from Europe....The ones I own are great.....Its funny becuase one writer in the celtic book says in the book.."Imagine if the Celts are destoyed Rome...We would be using a "Celtic Script"...or something like that...LOL...WHAT CELTIC SCRIPT....The ROMANS GAVE the celts their script...The other guy on the scandanavians is like...Yeah they didnt write their own language...SO WHAT!!!! LOL....its kinda funny...Sort of an inferioty complex I guess....Like your a savage if you didnt "Invent" a written script...LOL. Hell Im GLAD 100 percent the Malians and Song Hai adopted the Arabic script.
posted
great posts Djehuti,it took me a good while to find the ulster cycles as noone here mentioned them,I read them last month and I loved them especially those fomorian stories!
Sad that most people here aren't even aware of them yet carry their ancestry.
quote:
Finn McChul by the way, is an Irish epic. I have read many stories and know many things about Celtic and Norse peoples than most Euro-Americans have even heard, and I'm not even white! Ain't that said.
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Oh really?? So what about English Americans?? Why is it Anglo-Americans seem to know more about Rome or Greece than say the Geats and Vikings who were their ancestors?
Tell me professor, what do you know about ancient Germanic culture and its contributions to modern 'Western' culture, since there are in fact many?
I had to explain to my australian friend [4th generation australian] that he was scottish as was indicated by his surname,he was confused by this and had no idea.
I then had to explain that his ancestors were probably celtic or pictish common to scotland.He had no idea what I was talking abt but he loved brad pitt in gladiator!ha.
Also the thread is not about the germanic tribes but the britons and celtic iberians of the british isles from which so many of us in the west descend [I have english/welsh/irish ancestry myself]
Posts: 70 | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: If Egypt is one of their roots it is a very very tiny root. I disagree that they disregard their heritage. Nobody can accuse the Germans of disregarding their heritage. The development of western civilization is an on going process that has lasted for 2,500 years and is not finished yet, it continues to evolve. Different groups had roles to play at various times.
The germanic and celtic tribes of europe from which many in the west descend are not on most school curriculums at primary,high school or university level at least here in Australia...despite being an overwhelmingly "anglo-saxon" country.Trust me i've scoured the country because its what i'm interested in,and its all greece/rome/egypt.
The professors at the ancient history [egyptian] dept of my university are all germans,they seem unaware of or vaguely interested in the scythians,ostrogoths and various tribal peoples from who they likely descend.I am puzzled when I watch them lecture,thinking there own ancestors sit their silent as the grave.
Posts: 70 | Registered: Nov 2007
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