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Clarence Walker encourages black Americans to discard Afrocentrism
July, 2001 Elisabeth Sherwin -- gizmo@ dcn.davis.ca.us Enterprise staff writer
Clarence Walker
UC Davis History Professor Clarence E. Walker doesn't have any plans to visit Cal State Long Beach or Temple University in Philadelphia soon.
That's where two of the most vocal proponents of Afrocentrism (Ron Karenga and Molefi Asante, respectively) teach.
Walker doesn't think he'd get an especially warm reception on either campus because his most recent book, "We Can't Go Home Again: An Argument About Afrocentrism" (Oxford University Press, 2001), is devoted to knocking their theories about a black African cradle of civilization out of the ring.
According to Walker's book, Afrocentrism encourages black Americans to discard their recent history, with its inescapable white presence, and to embrace an empowering vision of their African (specifically Egyptian) ancestors as the source of Western civilization, a dubious claim to distant glory that fails to come to grips with complex modern problems.
Walker describes Afrocentrism as a form of totalitarian groupthink, devoid of historical accuracy.
"Afrocentrism is a mythology that is racist, reactionary, and essentially therapeutic," writes Walker. "It suggests that nothing important has happened in black history since the time of the pharaohs and thus trivializes the history of black Americans. Afrocentrism places an emphasis on Egypt that is, to put it bluntly, absurd.
"I've always been interested in critical history," said Walker in an interview at his on-campus office. He is finding his views at odds with those who don't want anything critical said about blacks.
Walker has been an American history professor at Davis for 16 years. He grew up in an integrated neighborhood in West Berkeley and graduated from Berkeley High School. He earned his Ph.D. from Cal in 1976.
He is especially interested in the history of race and racial ideas and will be teaching a class this winter on the novel as social history. He is impatient with people who don't think critically, and he doesn't care if those people are black or white.
"There is no evidence that the ancient Egyptians were black as we understand that term today," he said.
"Afrocentrism essentializes history, caricatures Africa and holds out the past to be recaptured," he said. "It's not smart and it's not practical."
However, over the past 10 years it has achieved some academic currency, which upsets Walker.
"Black people are not the same today as they were in the past," he says. "We are of African descent, but we are not African."
He says Afrocentrism caricatures Africa by suggesting that that vast continent has one uniform culture.
"And glorifying history doesn't give us a great purchase on the contemporary world," he said. "In the post-industrial American society, no one should worry about whether Cleopatra was black or white," he added.
Walker said his parents came from southern Texas. He was born in Houston in 1941. His family then moved to California. He has never been to Africa and he has no desire to go there.
"The argument about origins misses the point," he said. "It's not your origins that are important but what you do with them. You have to take responsibility."
He understands that the Afrocentrist movement is designed in part to give blacks self-esteem and a sense of community.
Walker shrugs this off, too. "Fairy tales aren't going to get it."
"In terms of the education of black children, it hasn't done much," he said. "It may have given some kids a false sense of pride and that's not terribly useful."
Instead of promoting the mythology of Afrocentrism, Walker would like to see colleges and universities hire professors of African history who know what they're talking about.
At UCD, he'd like to see a professor of West African history who could teach classes on pre-colonial Africa and the slave trade.
"Students would learn that blacks in the United States didn't come out of a void; that there were complex societies in West Africa," he said.
"History is controversial," said Walker. "But how you read the past has all sorts of implications for the present." Walker suggests that there were many cradles of civilization including Egypt, the Nile Valley and China.
"I'm an old-fashioned intellectual critic," said Walker. "I don't like a lot of work being done in the field. No history should be presented as an exercise in celebration.
"What black people really need is a usable present, not a usable past," he added.
Walker said the publication of his book raised some eyebrows in black circles.
But he has not head from Molefi Asante.
"There's nothing to talk about with them," he said. "Just because you want to believe the world was created by black people doesn't make it so."
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American blacks have nothing to do with africa. That I had a remote ancestor in Scotland 400 years ago hardly makes me a Scot.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: American blacks have nothing to do with africa. That I had a remote ancestor in Scotland 400 years ago hardly makes me a Scot.
STFU!
Paranoid white boys like you would rather not have African Americans and continental Africans have any connection or solidarity with each another because you fear an economic and cultural alliance between the two groups. The more cooperative economics between continental Africans and African Americans the less for Europeans and white Americans.
Posts: 148 | From: Sirius | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:American blacks have nothing to do with africa. That I had a remote ancestor in Scotland 400 years ago hardly makes me a Scot.
For what is worth most of the ancestors of U.S. blacks first landed in the U.S. post 1750 and the forced migration lasted until 1850. As an example of the latter date, recall the Amistad affair of the 1840s.
But would you extend you argument to "Jews and Israel", "non Saudi Arabs and Arabia", "East and Southern African Indians and India", "Lebanese generationally resident in West Africa and Lebanon" and "Christians and their Holy Land"?
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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lamin, Most people that move into a new culture change quickly after the second or third generation. Southern whites and blacks have much more in common with each other that they do with Africans or Europeans. They talk the same, eat the same foods, same religion same music etc etc. Country music is just modified blues.
They are much more alike than either group would like to admit sometimes.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:How many times and threads will we have on the same topic. . . but he is right, these are NOT Black Africans.
But it must be recognised that the concept of a "black African" is a mere arbitrary construct without any supportable scientific justification.
The construction would make scientific sense only if "black African" were a separate species or subspecies.
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posted
Not sure how I feel about his claim that egyptians weren't "black" as we identify the term today. But I agree with the tendancy of Afrocentrists to focus excessively and obsessively on Egypt.
Posts: 72 | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:American blacks have nothing to do with africa. That I had a remote ancestor in Scotland 400 years ago hardly makes me a Scot.
For what is worth most of the ancestors of U.S. blacks first landed in the U.S. post 1750 and the forced migration lasted until 1850. As an example of the latter date, recall the Amistad affair of the 1840s.
But would you extend you argument to "Jews and Israel", "non Saudi Arabs and Arabia", "East and Southern African Indians and India", "Lebanese generationally resident in West Africa and Lebanon" and "Christians and their Holy Land"?
Perfect example. if Jews migrating to Israel after 2-3 generations are no longer Russians or Americans, why do they feel the need to maintain dual citizenship in both countries. Hammer is a head without a brain. If you cut Hammer's head off, he'd walk around as usual, like a headless WORM.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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but you haven't answered my question concerning the groups I mentioned who often share little with their ancestral kin. Examples: the vast majority of Ashkenazi Jews who live in Europe or the U.S. speak no Hebrew, wear no Hebrew clothing nor do they eat anything but the foods of their European or Euro-American homelands.
To suggest that such acculturation militates against any connection with their land of presumed origin would be a rather risky undertaking.
So explain why third and fourth generation Lebanese and Indians in Africa still see themselves as Lebanese and Indians.
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posted
I think there is always an emotional connection but it obviously diminishes over time. We develop different values when we settle in different places. Lets say I moved to Bolivia. My grandchildren, the 3rd generation, would be well on their eway to being real Bolivians.
Posts: 2069 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Not sure how I feel about his claim that egyptians weren't "black" as we identify the term today. But I agree with the tendancy of Afrocentrists to focus excessively and obsessively on Egypt.
The leading Afrocentric is Molefi Asante. I believe he has written extensively on West Africa.
His main thesis though is that to be "Afrocentric" is to see the world through the eyes of Africans as subjects and agents rather than as objects to be defined by others.
The thing about Egypt only arises because one of the pillars of European thought concerning Africans and their progeney in the Americas is that Africans--unlike East Asians and South Asians--have never produced what European scholars define as "civilization"--and such is proof of their biological arrestedness or relative inferiority.
This argument is still current in European intellectual circles and is often buttressed with the IQ argument.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:I think there is always an emotional connection but it obviously diminishes over time. We develop different values when we settle in different places. Lets say I moved to Bolivia. My grandchildren, the 3rd generation, would be well on their eway to being real Bolivians.
.
A bit problematic though because the "real Bolivians"--i.e. the indigenous Amerindians might just see those of European culture and phenotype as "whites" or "Europeans"--assuming that they wear European clothing, speak Spanish--a European language", and celebrate European customs such as Christmas, etc.
"Bolivia" to those indigenous people would be nothing more than a European created nation with a European name--for Europeans living oustside of their ancestral areaa.
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LOL, there were some Jiggers who choose to remain on the Plantations even after they were set free from slavery. Some went so far as to join their Masters who realizing the civil war was lost bagged up their loot and sailed off to Argentina and became known there as the confederados.
Lastly, the jigger is from central Texas, not exactly known for producing many revolutionary minded blacks.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by unfinished thought: Clarence Walker encourages black Americans to discard Afrocentrism
^old as hell .. lol.
It's merely a *polemic* that I would advise serious scholars (including students of Africana) to ignore.
quote:Originally posted by Boofer: I agree with the tendancy of Afrocentrists to focus excessively and obsessively on Egypt.
Yep, though it woudl be good to note that these 'Afrocentrists' are just mimicking EUROCENTRISTS in that regard .. overrating Ancient Kemet with respect to other African polities.. so one could better attribute this tendency to conformist Westerners.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Not sure how I feel about his claim that egyptians weren't "black" as we identify the term today. But I agree with the tendancy of Afrocentrists to focus excessively and obsessively on Egypt.
The leading Afrocentric is Molefi Asante. I believe he has written extensively on West Africa.
His main thesis though is that to be "Afrocentric" is to see the world through the eyes of Africans as subjects and agents rather than as objects to be defined by others.
The thing about Egypt only arises because one of the pillars of European thought concerning Africans and their progeney in the Americas is that Africans--unlike East Asians and South Asians--have never produced what European scholars define as "civilization"--and such is proof of their biological arrestedness or relative inferiority.
This argument is still current in European intellectual circles and is often buttressed with the IQ argument.
I knew why Egypt was picked, but I don't understand why folks must focus on somewhere so far from where there ancestors come from (West Africa).
Posts: 72 | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Boofer: This argument is still current in European intellectual circles and is often buttressed with the IQ argument.
I recall reading an article many years ago (in a print magazine, not on the net, so I can't give a citation) about a school district that was using busing of children from minority neighborhoods to "white" schools to achieve integration, where someone noticed that the black children consistently scored lower than the white children on IQ tests. This was dismissed as being due to bias in the tests, because it was, of course, politically incorrect to conclude that the black children were actually not as bright as the white children. That would be racist.
One person decided to ignore political correctness, and asked himself the question, "what if the black children are less intelligent, but it is not some kind of racial thing?". He investigated, and found that almost all the children bussed in to this school lives in a particular old housing project, that was poorly maintained. It was built at a time when lead paint was very common. Further investigation revealed that the black children were all suffering from lead poisoning.
One of the effects of lead poisoning is reduced cognitive ability. When the children were treated for the lead poisoning, their test scores shot up to around those of the white children.
If that one person had decided to go with political correctness, and not dare to ask the question "what if they are less intelligent?", there's a good chance those children's lead poisoning would not have been discovered, and they would have been condemned to remaining less intelligent than their white counterparts for at least the rest of their school years. Even if they then moved out of the contaminated environment as adults, and the lead levels fell, and their cognitive ability returned, it would be too late for them. Their chance of college would be gone, and they would be forever stuck on the bottom rungs of the economic ladder.
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I disagree on several things. Egypt was BLACK; however, it didn't stay black. I kind of get what he is saying. Afrocentrist will leave Egypt alone when Eurocentrist leave Egypt alone. As long as Eurocentrist are out to prove that Egypt was non-african or non-black African, the Afrocentrist will continue to challenge it. I think we need the Afrocentrist for that part. He also implied that the past is not important which is very, very faulty. The past is HISTORY. Everyone should study their past and take pride in it. There is no history without the past. Those who know their past will control their future. Everyone else can talk about their history but blacks suppose to shut up. It sounds like this man is more concerned with making those non-blacks around him feel comfortable. I do agree the black Americans need to take more pride in being American and their rich history as beginning in the U.S.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Not sure how I feel about his claim that egyptians weren't "black" as we identify the term today. But I agree with the tendancy of Afrocentrists to focus excessively and obsessively on Egypt.
The leading Afrocentric is Molefi Asante. I believe he has written extensively on West Africa.
His main thesis though is that to be "Afrocentric" is to see the world through the eyes of Africans as subjects and agents rather than as objects to be defined by others.
The thing about Egypt only arises because one of the pillars of European thought concerning Africans and their progeney in the Americas is that Africans--unlike East Asians and South Asians--have never produced what European scholars define as "civilization"--and such is proof of their biological arrestedness or relative inferiority.
This argument is still current in European intellectual circles and is often buttressed with the IQ argument.
I knew why Egypt was picked, but I don't understand why folks must focus on somewhere so far from where there ancestors come from (West Africa).
Because West Africa never had anything like Egypt. West Africa was primitive compare to Egypt. Black Americans ancestors come from West, Central, and Southern Africa. You don't find advanced civilization in those parts of Africa. East Africans were the more intelligent, advanced people of Africa. So if you came from a primitve culture you would want to link yourself to a culture that is more noble. I have a question. Why do people want black Americans to focus on West African when the majority of their ancestry come from Central and Southern Africa?
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: American blacks have nothing to do with africa. That I had a remote ancestor in Scotland 400 years ago hardly makes me a Scot.
Darling, you are not a Scot. You do have a lot to do with Scots - genetically. However, culturally; nationally; ethnically; linguistically, you are not a Scot.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: American blacks have nothing to do with africa. That I had a remote ancestor in Scotland 400 years ago hardly makes me a Scot.
STFU!
Paranoid white boys like you would rather not have African Americans and continental Africans have any connection or solidarity with each another because you fear an economic and cultural alliance between the two groups. The more cooperative economics between continental Africans and African Americans the less for Europeans and white Americans.
Economic cooperation between Africans and black Americans can never be possible. Africans do not want any connection or solidarity with black Americans. Africans are an evil, envious people and they will kill you before they allow you economic cooperation. Africans during the pre-colonial era is no different from Africans today. Africans are not nice people. I guarantee you that you will not see any economic cooperation from them.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: lamin, Most people that move into a new culture change quickly after the second or third generation. Southern whites and blacks have much more in common with each other that they do with Africans or Europeans. They talk the same, eat the same foods, same religion same music etc etc. Country music is just modified blues.
They are much more alike than either group would like to admit sometimes.
That is because White and Blacks in the U.S. are AMERICAN. So of course we would share the same food, music, language, religion, etc... We are the same nationally, culturally, and linguistically, but not ethnically with the exception of nationalism.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Boofer: This argument is still current in European intellectual circles and is often buttressed with the IQ argument.
I recall reading an article many years ago (in a print magazine, not on the net, so I can't give a citation) about a school district that was using busing of children from minority neighborhoods to "white" schools to achieve integration, where someone noticed that the black children consistently scored lower than the white children on IQ tests. This was dismissed as being due to bias in the tests, because it was, of course, politically incorrect to conclude that the black children were actually not as bright as the white children. That would be racist.
One person decided to ignore political correctness, and asked himself the question, "what if the black children are less intelligent, but it is not some kind of racial thing?". He investigated, and found that almost all the children bussed in to this school lives in a particular old housing project, that was poorly maintained. It was built at a time when lead paint was very common. Further investigation revealed that the black children were all suffering from lead poisoning.
One of the effects of lead poisoning is reduced cognitive ability. When the children were treated for the lead poisoning, their test scores shot up to around those of the white children.
If that one person had decided to go with political correctness, and not dare to ask the question "what if they are less intelligent?", there's a good chance those children's lead poisoning would not have been discovered, and they would have been condemned to remaining less intelligent than their white counterparts for at least the rest of their school years. Even if they then moved out of the contaminated environment as adults, and the lead levels fell, and their cognitive ability returned, it would be too late for them. Their chance of college would be gone, and they would be forever stuck on the bottom rungs of the economic ladder.
Bullsh!t. Blacks are genetically inferior in intelligence. You are not suppose to say it. I noticed that Blacks are the only people in the world who don't think. When they do - they think with feelings. Blacks use emotions and feelings to rationalize while the rest of the world use facts and reasoning. Low IQ scores come from not thinking. You don't need a institution education to do well on that test. All you need is common sense. Blacks are either incapable of thinking or they too lazy to think. That is a hard core fact.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: American blacks have nothing to do with africa. That I had a remote ancestor in Scotland 400 years ago hardly makes me a Scot.
STFU!
Paranoid white boys like you would rather not have African Americans and continental Africans have any connection or solidarity with each another because you fear an economic and cultural alliance between the two groups. The more cooperative economics between continental Africans and African Americans the less for Europeans and white Americans.
Economic cooperation between Africans and black Americans can never be possible. Africans do not want any connection or solidarity with black Americans. Africans are an evil, envious people and they will kill you before they allow you economic cooperation. Africans during the pre-colonial era is no different from Africans today. Africans are not nice people. I guarantee you that you will not see any economic cooperation from them.
^ You are an *idiot*.
Posts: 426 | From: Cali-for-nia | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: Bullsh!t. Blacks are genetically inferior in intelligence. You are not suppose to say it. I noticed that Blacks are the only people in the world who don't think. When they do - they think with feelings. Blacks use emotions and feelings to rationalize while the rest of the world use facts and reasoning. Low IQ scores come from not thinking. You don't need a institution education to do well on that test. All you need is common sense. Blacks are either incapable of thinking or they too lazy to think. That is a hard core fact.
Do IQ tests really measure… stupidity?
Research has shown that IQ test scores tend to correlate negatively with scores of practical intelligence (Sternberg, 2001, 2004). Practical intelligence can be described as a person’s ability to apply learned skills and knowledge to everyday, real life tasks; or how to handle challenging situations. There is currently a lot of evidence demonstrating IQ tests to be unable to gauge a person’s overall potential or aptitude for learning (see Bradshaw, 2001; Siegel, 1989; Sternberg & Grigorenko, 2002a). What this means essentially is that a person who scores unusually high on an IQ test may not be an especially great learner (Sternberg, 2001). In fact, high scoring individuals may actually be demonstrating deficits in other areas; particularly in areas involving adaptive behavior or “practical intelligence” (See Sternberg, 2001)...
Empirical research has shown Practical intelligence to be a better predictor of numerous real life outcomes. For example, Chawarski (2002), found that among scientists immigrating to Israel from the USSR those who were rated highest on levels of practical intelligence tended to adapt better than those who were not. This study found that higher practical intelligence also tended to predict overall success in research and development jobs; with correlations at times reaching as high as .60 (Chawarski, 2002). Correlations this high are rarely if ever obtained with IQ tests with respect to any criteria, be they academic or real life (Schonemann, 1997c; Bradshaw, 2001). Another study found that teachers of high practical intelligence were rated more effective by their school principals and were better able to handle problematic situations (Grigorenko et al, 2006). While Sternberg (2001) reported that among academics, measures of practical intelligence predict productivity, citation rates, and quality ratings of the institution at which one is teaching over and above those obtained from IQ tests (2001).
A study by Bilalić et al (2007) found when an elite subsample of 23 children was tested for IQ that their scores were not a significant factor in chess skill, and that, if anything, IQ tended to correlate negatively with chess skill. Chess is often considered to be a game which puts heavy demands on one’s cognitive abilities and reasoning skills; requiring forward planning, short and long term strategic considerations and the ability to think dynamically. Thus, negative correlations between IQ scores and chess skills should cast serious doubt on the value of IQ test scores. One may also ask, since negative correlations have been observed; which is a better measure of one’s intelligence, chess skill or IQ? Some argue that IQ test scores are little more than examples of developed competencies (Sternberg, 2001); as it could be argue for chess skills. Perhaps it is because those who become good at chess invest less time developing the kind of skills gauged by IQ tests, that negative correlations are observed. That is, the kind of skills which are biased toward literacy and are acquired and rehearsed through the process of formal or informal schooling (Ceci & Williams, 1997; Ceci, 1991; Ryan et al, 2005; Richardson, 2000, 2002). Or perhaps, those with high chess skill are less likely to be exposed to the cultural tools that facilitate better performance on standardized IQ tests (Richardson, 2000, 2002; Manly et al, 1998; Boone, 2007; Fagan and Holland, 2002, 2007). Whatever the reason, it can surely be agreed that these individuals are not stupid!
Education, Literacy, Standardized Tests and Culture --When Blacks Exceed Whites
Crawford-Nutt (1976) found that African black students enrolled in westernized schools scored higher on progressive matrix tests than did American white students. The study was meant to examine perceptual/cultural differences between groups, and demonstrated that one’s performance on western standardized tests correspond more closely with the quality and style of schooling that one receives more so than other factors. It has been argued, for example, that the forms of recognition and reasoning found on Progressive Matrixes tests are exercised and maintained within a western style educational environment (Ceci & Williams, 1997; Ceci, 1991; Richardson, 2000, 2002), thus it is of little surprise that a quality western style education should produce results such as these. Buj (1981) showed Ghanaian adults in another study to score higher on the same supposedly ‘culture fair’ intelligence test, than did Irish adults; scores were 80 (Ghanaian) and 78 (Irish), respectively. Shuttleworth-Edwards et al (2004) conducted a study with black South Africans between the ages of 19–30, which showed highly significant effects for both level and quality of education within groups whose first language was an indigenous black African language. For example, black African first language groups (as well as white English speaking groups) with advantaged education were comparable with the US standardization in IQ test scores (e.g. WAIS-III).
Other programs have shown dramatic improvement in test scores for socially disadvantaged adolescents as a result of short-term cognitive training, so that "…three months later their performance was indistinguishable from that of middle class students” (Feuerstein & Kozulin, 1995, p. 74). For example, a number of studies have shown that Ethiopian immigrant students (who come from extraordinarily poor rural circumstances) tested in Israel by different IQ tests had, in pre-intervention tests, demonstrated lower test scores than the Israeli norm. However, after a short but intensive teaching process, the Ethiopian immigrant children performed at about the same level as the Israeli norm (Tzuriel & Kaufman, 1999; Kozulin, 1998).
Bond (1924) early last century pointed out that the average IQ scores of African Americans from several northern states were higher than those for whites from many southern states (Bond, 1924a, p. 63). He argued that African Americans who migrated to the North must have left their "duller and less accomplished White fellows in the South." Indeed, at that time upward of 85% of African Americans resided in the South, as most still do, to do this day. Bond also believed that IQ test scores reflected social and educational training. Inline with this belief, Jenkins's (1936) reported the results of IQ tests given to Black and White children in Illinois, and found that the proportion of students with scores over 130 was the same among Black and White children when environmental influences were comparable. A study involving Caribbean children would essentially replicate these findings. For example, this study found that when raised in the same enriched institutional environments as white children; black children demonstrated superior IQ test scores. The IQ’s of the children in this particular orphanage were: Blacks 108, Mixed 106, and Whites 103 (Tizard et al, 1972).
Studies also show that upward of 99% of group IQ score differences between healthy black and white Americans are eliminated after controlling for simple cultural factors. Manly et al (1998) found that after cultural factors such as linguistic behavior (e.g. black vs. standard English) are taken into account between healthy black and white Americans, that IQ score differences between these populations disappear; becoming insignificant in all but only one area (a reading section)! It is argued that because those who construct standardized tests come from a narrow social group, it follows that test items will contain information and structures that match the background knowledge of some people more than others (Richardson, 2000). This may explain why “acculturation” is found to predict IQ score differences better than virtually any other variable, aside from literacy levels (which is essentially another mediator of culture). Other studies have shown similar results, after controlling for cultural factors. Fagan and Holland (2002) found that where exposure to specific information was required; whites knew more about the meanings of different sayings than did Blacks, due to exposure. But, when comprehension was based on generally available information, Whites and Blacks did not differ (Fagan and Holland, 2002; see also, Fagan and Holland, 2007). This study also found that when Blacks and Whites are matched as to the comprehension of sayings requiring specific knowledge that Blacks were superior to Whites on intelligence tests (ibid).
Teng and Manly (2005) argue that tests developed for members of the majority culture are often inappropriate for ethnic minorities, especially those who speak a different language, have little or no formal education, and grow up in vastly different circumstances (see also, Williams, 1972; Boone et al, 2007). These researchers argue that variables that directly affect test performance, such as education and acculturation instead of race or ethnicity, should be considered as explanatory variables for test performance (Teng and Manly, 2005). Boone et al (2007) obtained findings that further supported this line, as not ethnic differences, but the effects of acculturation directly and significantly influenced IQ test performance. The authors cautioned that normative data derived on Caucasian samples may not be appropriate for use with other ethnic groups (Boone et al, 2007). Ryan et al (2005) found that discrepancy in reading and education level was associated with worse psychological test performance (e.g. IQ and other tests), while racial/ethnic minority status was not.
In the United States, when matched for IQ with Whites, American Blacks have been shown to demonstrate superior “Working Memory” (Nijenhuis et al., 2004). This is an interesting finding, as African Americans are typically taught by less qualified teachers (e.g. non-certified teachers and teachers with limited experience) than their white counterparts, and are provided with less challenging school work (Hallinan 1994; Diamond et al., 2004; Uhlenberg and Brown 2004). In Chicago, for example, the vast majority of schools placed on academic probation as part of the district accountability efforts were majority African-American and low-income (Diamond and Spillane 2004). Thus, it is somewhat surprising that African Americans should outperform white Americans on any portion of a paper and pencil test designed to mimic the structures of western style schooling (Richardson, 2000, 2002).
Educational inequality in the U.S. is a pervasive part of the social system, and is primarily a consequence of housing. Since the majority of states determine school funding based on property taxes, schools in wealthier neighborhoods receive more funding per student. As home values in white neighborhoods are higher than minority neighborhoods, local schools receive more funding via property taxes (Kelly, 1995). In addition, there has been a history of social policy which has limited African American’s access to avenues of wealth accumulation (e.g. purchasing suburban homes); so that black families also have far fewer assets than their white counterparts who earn the same incomes (Oliver and Shapiro, 1995). Parents with greater assets are free to use for things like tutors, purchase educational materials (e.g. computers), and to pay for private schools and more expensive colleges.
Serpell et al. (2006) took 162 low-income African American and white fourth graders and assigned them, randomly, to ethnically homogeneous groups of three to work on a motion acceleration task, using computer simulation or physical tools; or to a control group that did not participate in the learning activities. It was shown that both African American and White students performed equally well on the test of initial learning, with both groups scoring significantly higher than the control group. However, this study also found that African American’s transfer outcomes were superior to those of their White counterparts (Serpell et al., 2006). The study demonstrated, empirically, that not only do African American children learn as well as white children, but that they may also exceed white children in their ability to transfer learned abilities to real tasks; further highlighting the need for better education for this group.
quote:Originally posted by TheAmericanPatriot: American blacks have nothing to do with africa. That I had a remote ancestor in Scotland 400 years ago hardly makes me a Scot.
STFU!
Paranoid white boys like you would rather not have African Americans and continental Africans have any connection or solidarity with each another because you fear an economic and cultural alliance between the two groups. The more cooperative economics between continental Africans and African Americans the less for Europeans and white Americans.
Economic cooperation between Africans and black Americans can never be possible. Africans do not want any connection or solidarity with black Americans. Africans are an evil, envious people and they will kill you before they allow you economic cooperation. Africans during the pre-colonial era is no different from Africans today. Africans are not nice people. I guarantee you that you will not see any economic cooperation from them.
You are quite WRONG. Muhammed Ali staged one of histories biggest fights generating billions of dollars in Africa, and Africans embraced Ali like he was a Pharaoh.
Michael Jackson was made a honorary king and invested millions there.
Stevie Wonder has maintained a residence in Kenya for over a decade and Africans love him and treat him like a King.
Oprah Winfried just invested tens of millions in South Africa and Africans love her and treat her like a Queen.
Randell Cunningham started the Trans-Africa Organization over 3 decades ago and has beneficial relationships with a dozen African nations.
Russell Simmons has a business there and has ties with Gold companies.
Wesley Snipes maintains a residence there and recently returned to face his tax evasion charge.
I could write a list filling this page but I don't think you are worth that much time.
Just at least make an attempt to present real facts next time rather then display you obvious FEAR of an African-American/African relationship.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Boofer: This argument is still current in European intellectual circles and is often buttressed with the IQ argument.
I recall reading an article many years ago (in a print magazine, not on the net, so I can't give a citation) about a school district that was using busing of children from minority neighborhoods to "white" schools to achieve integration, where someone noticed that the black children consistently scored lower than the white children on IQ tests. This was dismissed as being due to bias in the tests, because it was, of course, politically incorrect to conclude that the black children were actually not as bright as the white children. That would be racist.
One person decided to ignore political correctness, and asked himself the question, "what if the black children are less intelligent, but it is not some kind of racial thing?". He investigated, and found that almost all the children bussed in to this school lives in a particular old housing project, that was poorly maintained. It was built at a time when lead paint was very common. Further investigation revealed that the black children were all suffering from lead poisoning.
One of the effects of lead poisoning is reduced cognitive ability. When the children were treated for the lead poisoning, their test scores shot up to around those of the white children.
If that one person had decided to go with political correctness, and not dare to ask the question "what if they are less intelligent?", there's a good chance those children's lead poisoning would not have been discovered, and they would have been condemned to remaining less intelligent than their white counterparts for at least the rest of their school years. Even if they then moved out of the contaminated environment as adults, and the lead levels fell, and their cognitive ability returned, it would be too late for them. Their chance of college would be gone, and they would be forever stuck on the bottom rungs of the economic ladder.
Bullsh!t. Blacks are genetically inferior in intelligence. You are not suppose to say it. I noticed that Blacks are the only people in the world who don't think. When they do - they think with feelings. Blacks use emotions and feelings to rationalize while the rest of the world use facts and reasoning. Low IQ scores come from not thinking. You don't need a institution education to do well on that test. All you need is common sense. Blacks are either incapable of thinking or they too lazy to think. That is a hard core fact.
Hahaha...You are American Hammer or KIK pretending to be someone else, but your ignorance gives you away no matter what nich you attempt to hide behind. Exactly like Hammer or KIK, you offer only mentally deranged opinions and never provide any substantiated supporting information, and in the rare times you do, it's a newspaper cut&paste. Give it up Hammer you've been exposed.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: Bullsh!t. Blacks are genetically inferior in intelligence. You are not suppose to say it. I noticed that Blacks are the only people in the world who don't think. When they do - they think with feelings. Blacks use emotions and feelings to rationalize while the rest of the world use facts and reasoning. Low IQ scores come from not thinking. You don't need a institution education to do well on that test. All you need is common sense. Blacks are either incapable of thinking or they too lazy to think. That is a hard core fact.
Do IQ tests really measure… stupidity?
Research has shown that IQ test scores tend to correlate negatively with scores of practical intelligence (Sternberg, 2001, 2004). Practical intelligence can be described as a person’s ability to apply learned skills and knowledge to everyday, real life tasks; or how to handle challenging situations. There is currently a lot of evidence demonstrating IQ tests to be unable to gauge a person’s overall potential or aptitude for learning (see Bradshaw, 2001; Siegel, 1989; Sternberg & Grigorenko, 2002a). What this means essentially is that a person who scores unusually high on an IQ test may not be an especially great learner (Sternberg, 2001). In fact, high scoring individuals may actually be demonstrating deficits in other areas; particularly in areas involving adaptive behavior or “practical intelligence” (See Sternberg, 2001)...
Empirical research has shown Practical intelligence to be a better predictor of numerous real life outcomes. For example, Chawarski (2002), found that among scientists immigrating to Israel from the USSR those who were rated highest on levels of practical intelligence tended to adapt better than those who were not. This study found that higher practical intelligence also tended to predict overall success in research and development jobs; with correlations at times reaching as high as .60 (Chawarski, 2002). Correlations this high are rarely if ever obtained with IQ tests with respect to any criteria, be they academic or real life (Schonemann, 1997c; Bradshaw, 2001). Another study found that teachers of high practical intelligence were rated more effective by their school principals and were better able to handle problematic situations (Grigorenko et al, 2006). While Sternberg (2001) reported that among academics, measures of practical intelligence predict productivity, citation rates, and quality ratings of the institution at which one is teaching over and above those obtained from IQ tests (2001).
A study by Bilalić et al (2007) found when an elite subsample of 23 children was tested for IQ that their scores were not a significant factor in chess skill, and that, if anything, IQ tended to correlate negatively with chess skill. Chess is often considered to be a game which puts heavy demands on one’s cognitive abilities and reasoning skills; requiring forward planning, short and long term strategic considerations and the ability to think dynamically. Thus, negative correlations between IQ scores and chess skills should cast serious doubt on the value of IQ test scores. One may also ask, since negative correlations have been observed; which is a better measure of one’s intelligence, chess skill or IQ? Some argue that IQ test scores are little more than examples of developed competencies (Sternberg, 2001); as it could be argue for chess skills. Perhaps it is because those who become good at chess invest less time developing the kind of skills gauged by IQ tests, that negative correlations are observed. That is, the kind of skills which are biased toward literacy and are acquired and rehearsed through the process of formal or informal schooling (Ceci & Williams, 1997; Ceci, 1991; Ryan et al, 2005; Richardson, 2000, 2002). Or perhaps, those with high chess skill are less likely to be exposed to the cultural tools that facilitate better performance on standardized IQ tests (Richardson, 2000, 2002; Manly et al, 1998; Boone, 2007; Fagan and Holland, 2002, 2007). Whatever the reason, it can surely be agreed that these individuals are not stupid!
Education, Literacy, Standardized Tests and Culture --When Blacks Exceed Whites
Crawford-Nutt (1976) found that African black students enrolled in westernized schools scored higher on progressive matrix tests than did American white students. The study was meant to examine perceptual/cultural differences between groups, and demonstrated that one’s performance on western standardized tests correspond more closely with the quality and style of schooling that one receives more so than other factors. It has been argued, for example, that the forms of recognition and reasoning found on Progressive Matrixes tests are exercised and maintained within a western style educational environment (Ceci & Williams, 1997; Ceci, 1991; Richardson, 2000, 2002), thus it is of little surprise that a quality western style education should produce results such as these. Buj (1981) showed Ghanaian adults in another study to score higher on the same supposedly ‘culture fair’ intelligence test, than did Irish adults; scores were 80 (Ghanaian) and 78 (Irish), respectively. Shuttleworth-Edwards et al (2004) conducted a study with black South Africans between the ages of 19–30, which showed highly significant effects for both level and quality of education within groups whose first language was an indigenous black African language. For example, black African first language groups (as well as white English speaking groups) with advantaged education were comparable with the US standardization in IQ test scores (e.g. WAIS-III).
Other programs have shown dramatic improvement in test scores for socially disadvantaged adolescents as a result of short-term cognitive training, so that "…three months later their performance was indistinguishable from that of middle class students” (Feuerstein & Kozulin, 1995, p. 74). For example, a number of studies have shown that Ethiopian immigrant students (who come from extraordinarily poor rural circumstances) tested in Israel by different IQ tests had, in pre-intervention tests, demonstrated lower test scores than the Israeli norm. However, after a short but intensive teaching process, the Ethiopian immigrant children performed at about the same level as the Israeli norm (Tzuriel & Kaufman, 1999; Kozulin, 1998).
Bond (1924) early last century pointed out that the average IQ scores of African Americans from several northern states were higher than those for whites from many southern states (Bond, 1924a, p. 63). He argued that African Americans who migrated to the North must have left their "duller and less accomplished White fellows in the South." Indeed, at that time upward of 85% of African Americans resided in the South, as most still do, to do this day. Bond also believed that IQ test scores reflected social and educational training. Inline with this belief, Jenkins's (1936) reported the results of IQ tests given to Black and White children in Illinois, and found that the proportion of students with scores over 130 was the same among Black and White children when environmental influences were comparable. A study involving Caribbean children would essentially replicate these findings. For example, this study found that when raised in the same enriched institutional environments as white children; black children demonstrated superior IQ test scores. The IQ’s of the children in this particular orphanage were: Blacks 108, Mixed 106, and Whites 103 (Tizard et al, 1972).
Studies also show that upward of 99% of group IQ score differences between healthy black and white Americans are eliminated after controlling for simple cultural factors. Manly et al (1998) found that after cultural factors such as linguistic behavior (e.g. black vs. standard English) are taken into account between healthy black and white Americans, that IQ score differences between these populations disappear; becoming insignificant in all but only one area (a reading section)! It is argued that because those who construct standardized tests come from a narrow social group, it follows that test items will contain information and structures that match the background knowledge of some people more than others (Richardson, 2000). This may explain why “acculturation” is found to predict IQ score differences better than virtually any other variable, aside from literacy levels (which is essentially another mediator of culture). Other studies have shown similar results, after controlling for cultural factors. Fagan and Holland (2002) found that where exposure to specific information was required; whites knew more about the meanings of different sayings than did Blacks, due to exposure. But, when comprehension was based on generally available information, Whites and Blacks did not differ (Fagan and Holland, 2002; see also, Fagan and Holland, 2007). This study also found that when Blacks and Whites are matched as to the comprehension of sayings requiring specific knowledge that Blacks were superior to Whites on intelligence tests (ibid).
Teng and Manly (2005) argue that tests developed for members of the majority culture are often inappropriate for ethnic minorities, especially those who speak a different language, have little or no formal education, and grow up in vastly different circumstances (see also, Williams, 1972; Boone et al, 2007). These researchers argue that variables that directly affect test performance, such as education and acculturation instead of race or ethnicity, should be considered as explanatory variables for test performance (Teng and Manly, 2005). Boone et al (2007) obtained findings that further supported this line, as not ethnic differences, but the effects of acculturation directly and significantly influenced IQ test performance. The authors cautioned that normative data derived on Caucasian samples may not be appropriate for use with other ethnic groups (Boone et al, 2007). Ryan et al (2005) found that discrepancy in reading and education level was associated with worse psychological test performance (e.g. IQ and other tests), while racial/ethnic minority status was not.
In the United States, when matched for IQ with Whites, American Blacks have been shown to demonstrate superior “Working Memory” (Nijenhuis et al., 2004). This is an interesting finding, as African Americans are typically taught by less qualified teachers (e.g. non-certified teachers and teachers with limited experience) than their white counterparts, and are provided with less challenging school work (Hallinan 1994; Diamond et al., 2004; Uhlenberg and Brown 2004). In Chicago, for example, the vast majority of schools placed on academic probation as part of the district accountability efforts were majority African-American and low-income (Diamond and Spillane 2004). Thus, it is somewhat surprising that African Americans should outperform white Americans on any portion of a paper and pencil test designed to mimic the structures of western style schooling (Richardson, 2000, 2002).
Educational inequality in the U.S. is a pervasive part of the social system, and is primarily a consequence of housing. Since the majority of states determine school funding based on property taxes, schools in wealthier neighborhoods receive more funding per student. As home values in white neighborhoods are higher than minority neighborhoods, local schools receive more funding via property taxes (Kelly, 1995). In addition, there has been a history of social policy which has limited African American’s access to avenues of wealth accumulation (e.g. purchasing suburban homes); so that black families also have far fewer assets than their white counterparts who earn the same incomes (Oliver and Shapiro, 1995). Parents with greater assets are free to use for things like tutors, purchase educational materials (e.g. computers), and to pay for private schools and more expensive colleges.
Serpell et al. (2006) took 162 low-income African American and white fourth graders and assigned them, randomly, to ethnically homogeneous groups of three to work on a motion acceleration task, using computer simulation or physical tools; or to a control group that did not participate in the learning activities. It was shown that both African American and White students performed equally well on the test of initial learning, with both groups scoring significantly higher than the control group. However, this study also found that African American’s transfer outcomes were superior to those of their White counterparts (Serpell et al., 2006). The study demonstrated, empirically, that not only do African American children learn as well as white children, but that they may also exceed white children in their ability to transfer learned abilities to real tasks; further highlighting the need for better education for this group.
From years of evaluation, this report totally reflects my position on the value of IQ testing. America is in it's present predicament due to a nation of industry leaders with high IQ tests. IQ tests were the railing to start the ride of the Bell Curve express.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
Off course professor Clarence Walker is thinking of his own position in White Academia when he says these horrible things. Why can’t we have Blacks talking about EVERYTHING which goes on in the world?
Every news bulletin about Obama talks about him being Black, and what that means for his vision, and how strange it is for a Black family to be living in the White house. I expect them to continue this and we will hear: Obama, the Black President of the US had talks with the Russian president. Or The Black Presidential Family Obama has gone for a ski vacation to the Swiss Alps. So for the white status quo, there is always something about Black people. And it usually turns out that they need to be ridiculed, cheated, oppressed, kept outside governments and killed.
In Holland I observe that Blacks and Muslims are kept from positions of authority and of power. The Dutch State only recognizes Houseniggers. These are people who will not cause trouble but lent their black colour to legitimise oppression of Blacks. Of keeping them separated from their rights. The people in power show a qualified ‘pleasure’ with Obama, and keep from saying what this could mean for Blacks in Europe. Because in Holland today the Black Surinamese are also used by the State to ‘manage’ the growing number of Africans in the Netherlands. Many Africans openly hate Surinamese for this, which pains me. I have noticed US Blacks only got more equality and rights after they fought in some goddam American imperialistic war. So the USA defines their Blacks as people who will join in genocide against other of colours and even their own kind. This is sad, and this is the role they have prepared for Blacks in The Netherlands too.
My thread THE ENEMY OF THE NEGRO IS THE NEGRO HIMSELFS shows that Blacks are no saints, and if we want a change we had better start by changing ourselves.
Lamin makes a subtle point by defining slavery as ‘forced migration.’ A professor here calls them ‘migrant workers.’ It’s a useful approach to explain some parts of this trade, as long as we are not going to conclude that slavery is something good. In such a case I expect lamin to surrender yourself, family and your spouse or children to slave-traders; right this minute!
quote:Lamin makes a subtle point by defining slavery as ‘forced migration.’ A professor here calls them ‘migrant workers.’ It’s a useful approach, as long as we are not going to conclude that slavery is something good. In such a case I expect lamin to surrender yourself, family and your spouse or children to slave-traders; right this minute! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note that the transplantation of Africans from Africa to the Americas involved 3 stages
1)i)The prisoners from inter-ethnic warfare[the bulk of the captives--according to what the slavers wrote in their logs. See Theo Conaut, "A Slaver's Log") who were then bartered for weaponry, cloth, alcohol, etc.
ii) Kidnapees: individuals kidnapped by gangs in the pay of the slavers who waited on the coast until their baracoons were filled up. The written testimony of individuals such as Oludah Equiano, Sulayman Ben Job, Ajai Crowther and Mahoma Baquauqua--all make it obvious that kidnapping by gangs was a major source of captives. There were even cases of young individuals lured onto the slave ships with promises of gifts only to discover that the ship had sailed off with them.
2)The trans-Atlantic journey was the second phase of the forced migration. It was a harrowing trip with many deaths and revolts.
3) But up till this point the transportess were captives. They were not yet slaves. They became slaves only when they were bought in the markets of the Americas.
My point is the journey from Africa was a forced migration which is quite distinct from the subsequent enslavement itself.
This is where the central thesis of Afrocentrism comes into play. The now-free descendants of those who were enslaved can now take stock of themselves subjectively and as physically free agents and decide whether they want to continue to live among and with the peoples who cruelly enslaved them--after all, those who enslaved them could just as easily have set them up in palaces with feather beds for the rest of their lives-- or should they return to their ancestral homes after seeking adequate compensation--as the Jews did--for humans rights violations of all types.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Lamin makes a subtle point by defining slavery as ‘forced migration.’ A professor here calls them ‘migrant workers.’ It’s a useful approach, as long as we are not going to conclude that slavery is something good. In such a case I expect lamin to surrender yourself, family and your spouse or children to slave-traders; right this minute! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note that the transplantation of Africans from Africa to the Americas involved 3 stages
1)i)The prisoners from inter-ethnic warfare[the bulk of the captives--according to what the slavers wrote in their logs. See Theo Conaut, "A Slaver's Log") who were then bartered for weaponry, cloth, alcohol, etc.
ii) Kidnapees: individuals kidnapped by gangs in the pay of the slavers who waited on the coast until their baracoons were filled up. The written testimony of individuals such as Oludah Equiano, Sulayman Ben Job, Ajai Crowther and Mahoma Baquauqua--all make it obvious that kidnapping by gangs was a major source of captives. There were even cases of young individuals lured onto the slave ships with promises of gifts only to discover that the ship had sailed off with them.
2)The trans-Atlantic journey was the second phase of the forced migration. It was a harrowing trip with many deaths and revolts.
3) But up till this point the transportess were captives. They were not yet slaves. They became slaves only when they were bought in the markets of the Americas.
My point is the journey from Africa was a forced migration which is quite distinct from the subsequent enslavement itself.
This is where the central thesis of Afrocentrism comes into play. The now-free descendants of those who were enslaved can now take stock of themselves subjectively and as physically free agents and decide whether they want to continue to live among and with the peoples who cruelly enslaved them--after all, those who enslaved them could just as easily have set them up in palaces with feather beds for the rest of their lives-- or should they return to their ancestral homes after seeking adequate compensation--as the Jews did--for humans rights violations of all types.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
You know how much it pains me that we still have to hear about these tests and mechanisms to keep Blacks and others in check. In order to keep them away from positions of authority or power. Just like in those days when they would physically keep Blacks away from voter registration.
Today it looks like a last minute 'grab as much as you can' by the rich elite, the Captains of Industry, in the US and Europe. This is high style looting during a financial crisis, created by the looters themselves. First there were the small injections of money, now the doses are upped and upped by the day.
The one's who are in control will use anything to keep the power. This means daily brainwash by tv, cinema and media. The Dutch are constantly told that 'The Other' is a danger to them. I feel they will resort to a new Holocaust, just because they can.
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer: [QUOTE]From years of evaluation, this report totally reflects my position on the value of IQ testing. America is in it's present predicament due to a nation of industry leaders with high IQ tests. IQ tests were the railing to start the ride of the Bell Curve express.
quote:Lamin makes a subtle point by defining slavery as ‘forced migration.’ A professor here calls them ‘migrant workers.’ It’s a useful approach, as long as we are not going to conclude that slavery is something good. In such a case I expect lamin to surrender yourself, family and your spouse or children to slave-traders; right this minute! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note that the transplantation of Africans from Africa to the Americas involved 3 stages
1)i)The prisoners from inter-ethnic warfare[the bulk of the captives--according to what the slavers wrote in their logs. See Theo Conaut, "A Slaver's Log") who were then bartered for weaponry, cloth, alcohol, etc.
ii) Kidnapees: individuals kidnapped by gangs in the pay of the slavers who waited on the coast until their baracoons were filled up. The written testimony of individuals such as Oludah Equiano, Sulayman Ben Job, Ajai Crowther and Mahoma Baquauqua--all make it obvious that kidnapping by gangs was a major source of captives. There were even cases of young individuals lured onto the slave ships with promises of gifts only to discover that the ship had sailed off with them.
2)The trans-Atlantic journey was the second phase of the forced migration. It was a harrowing trip with many deaths and revolts.
3) But up till this point the transportess were captives. They were not yet slaves. They became slaves only when they were bought in the markets of the Americas.
My point is the journey from Africa was a forced migration which is quite distinct from the subsequent enslavement itself.
This is where the central thesis of Afrocentrism comes into play. The now-free descendants of those who were enslaved can now take stock of themselves subjectively and as physically free agents and decide whether they want to continue to live among and with the peoples who cruelly enslaved them--after all, those who enslaved them could just as easily have set them up in palaces with feather beds for the rest of their lives-- or should they return to their ancestral homes after seeking adequate compensation--as the Jews did--for humans rights violations of all types.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Lamin makes a subtle point by defining slavery as ‘forced migration.’ A professor here calls them ‘migrant workers.’ It’s a useful approach, as long as we are not going to conclude that slavery is something good. In such a case I expect lamin to surrender yourself, family and your spouse or children to slave-traders; right this minute! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note that the transplantation of Africans from Africa to the Americas involved 3 stages
1)i)The prisoners from inter-ethnic warfare[the bulk of the captives--according to what the slavers wrote in their logs. See Theo Conaut, "A Slaver's Log") who were then bartered for weaponry, cloth, alcohol, etc.
ii) Kidnapees: individuals kidnapped by gangs in the pay of the slavers who waited on the coast until their baracoons were filled up. The written testimony of individuals such as Oludah Equiano, Sulayman Ben Job, Ajai Crowther and Mahoma Baquauqua--all make it obvious that kidnapping by gangs was a major source of captives. There were even cases of young individuals lured onto the slave ships with promises of gifts only to discover that the ship had sailed off with them.
2)The trans-Atlantic journey was the second phase of the forced migration. It was a harrowing trip with many deaths and revolts.
3) But up till this point the transportess were captives. They were not yet slaves. They became slaves only when they were bought in the markets of the Americas.
My point is the journey from Africa was a forced migration which is quite distinct from the subsequent enslavement itself.
This is where the central thesis of Afrocentrism comes into play. The now-free descendants of those who were enslaved can now take stock of themselves subjectively and as physically free agents and decide whether they want to continue to live among and with the peoples who cruelly enslaved them--after all, those who enslaved them could just as easily have set them up in palaces with feather beds for the rest of their lives-- or should they return to their ancestral homes after seeking adequate compensation--as the Jews did--for humans rights violations of all types.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by unfinished thought: If that one person had decided to go with political correctness
IMO the whole tirade against political correctness is completely unnecessary and BS.
Infact, politics is bs.
So yes, it's true that, whether something is politically correct for Seinfeld or for "liberals", whenever politics infests moral and professional questions [of anything] it's a bad deal.
However what's politically "correct" changes from person to person, but is usually associated with "liberalism". And there's a very wise saying: one should keep their politics to ones self.
From a moral standpoint there should be no hesitation in pursuing possible answers to disparities in performance between students. Same thing from a professional standpoint (for example Flynn, a statistician has provided important research).
Bluntly though, there is the issue of psychological racial warfare which is usually completely political. For example, questions of intelligence may be more taboo now because of race/IQ blunders of the past.
If the purpose of "race"/IQ discourse were or had really been to achieve a better understanding of how genetic, cultural and/or other factors may impact given entities' productivity (or capability or competence) within a given framework/society (or within an IQ test ) it would purely look at the given genetic and cultural factors and statistics instead of *trying to see how the data positions or ranks their socially constructed groups or 'races' (regardless of social factors?) and probably how well the results correspond to their preconceived ideological [race] dogma after previously apologizing for it (usually by apologizing for not being "PC" instead of apologizing for being a ideologue/moron).
quote:If the purpose of "race"/IQ discourse were or had really been to achieve a better understanding of how genetic, cultural and/or other factors may impact given entities' productivity (or capability or competence) within a given framework/society (or within an IQ test [Big Grin] ) it would purely look at the given genetic and cultural factors and statistics instead of *trying to see how the data positions or ranks their socially constructed groups or 'races'
Exactly. But we all know thats not the *purpose*. They are obviously coming with an agenda.
One interesting note is how they can look at the data and claim that "asians" are intellectually superior.
What is "asian" and what criteria is set for such?
Their "racial" groupings are completely arbitrary.
quote: Just my 2 cents.
More like 2 dollars Posts: 426 | From: Cali-for-nia | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Bettyboo said that there wasn't civilization or kingdoms in west, central and southern africa do you know about the songhai, mali, zulu or the lunda kindoms? when europeans came to the kongo kingdom they said it was like a city that's why the name of the city was MBAZA KONGO meaning city of the Kongo.
-------------------- Emancipate your minds. Posts: 22 | Registered: Nov 2008
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posted
this is for bettyboo. early egypt was not as advanced many later west african early civilizations.you could find civiliztions in central and southern africa that was more advanced egypt too.heck you could find early african civilizations in west africa,central and southern africa that were more advanced,less advanced or equal to most east african civilizations.
Posts: 2688 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I have read somewhere that Ashkenazim Jews are found to have the highest average IQ of any ethnic group, scoring 12 to 15 points above the European average.
At the same time, it has been found that they are also prone to a number of serious genetic diseases.
Neurological disorders, including Tay-Sachs, Gaucher's, and Niemann-Pick. Tay-Sachs is a fatal inherited disease of the central nervous system. Sufferers lack an enzyme needed to break down fatty substances in the brain and nerve cells. Gauchers and Niemann-Pick are similar, often fatal diseases.
Researchers now suggest that intelligence is closely linked to such illnesses in Ashkenazi Jews, and that the diseases are the result of natural selection.
quote:Lamin makes a subtle point by defining slavery as ‘forced migration.’ A professor here calls them ‘migrant workers.’ It’s a useful approach, as long as we are not going to conclude that slavery is something good. In such a case I expect lamin to surrender yourself, family and your spouse or children to slave-traders; right this minute! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note that the transplantation of Africans from Africa to the Americas involved 3 stages
1)i)The prisoners from inter-ethnic warfare[the bulk of the captives--according to what the slavers wrote in their logs. See Theo Conaut, "A Slaver's Log") who were then bartered for weaponry, cloth, alcohol, etc.
ii) Kidnapees: individuals kidnapped by gangs in the pay of the slavers who waited on the coast until their baracoons were filled up. The written testimony of individuals such as Oludah Equiano, Sulayman Ben Job, Ajai Crowther and Mahoma Baquauqua--all make it obvious that kidnapping by gangs was a major source of captives. There were even cases of young individuals lured onto the slave ships with promises of gifts only to discover that the ship had sailed off with them.
2)The trans-Atlantic journey was the second phase of the forced migration. It was a harrowing trip with many deaths and revolts.
3) But up till this point the transportess were captives. They were not yet slaves. They became slaves only when they were bought in the markets of the Americas.
My point is the journey from Africa was a forced migration which is quite distinct from the subsequent enslavement itself.
This is where the central thesis of Afrocentrism comes into play. The now-free descendants of those who were enslaved can now take stock of themselves subjectively and as physically free agents and decide whether they want to continue to live among and with the peoples who cruelly enslaved them--after all, those who enslaved them could just as easily have set them up in palaces with feather beds for the rest of their lives-- or should they return to their ancestral homes after seeking adequate compensation--as the Jews did--for humans rights violations of all types.
[The packing of a Slave Ship]
Dear Lamin, Perhaps you are saying that the Africans were not aware of the cruelty of western slavery. This might be true in the beginning but there were Africans who travelled between Africa and the Americas on slave-ships, but were not enslaved. They held up the business end in Africa and knew the facts. Some patrician Surinam families originated in Africa, but were never slaves. But Zora Neal Hurston in her autobiography, Tracks in the Dust, tracked down a last survivor of the Middle Passage who told a harrowing story about the wicked African Kings who out of greed sold their own free subjects to slave takers, by inventing crimes, punishable by lost of property and freedom. The idea of repatriation is much alive with me today as I’m getting more and more convinced that Europe is planning a new Holocaust. They feel themselves crowded and oppressed by Muslims and Blacks. I was in the parliament yesterday where the resignation of a Minister of Integration was discussed. Again I was surprised how some openly speak against Dutch citizens from ethnic groups as if they are the Enemies of the State. The discussion alas revolved about the way she was sent packing, and not about some new registration-plans of the Dutch of Antillean descent, mentioning their race or ethnicity. Not since the WII German occupied Netherlands registered Jews by their race and ethnicity. And we all know how did worked out for the Dutch Jews. While in Belgium 40% and France only 35% of the Jews perished in German Destruction Camps: in Holland the amount was 75%. The highest of all Europe. So I do believe Blacks will have to make a hasty exit, if they are not planning a more dignified one, right now. I have a mind to write to the Surinam government to urge them to start making plans for an exodus of Dutch Surinamese to Surinam within the next five years. Mind you that some of these future refugees know Surinam by name only and are totally brainwashed into Euro centrism: hating their own kind.
By the way, Surinam should offer the Fijians who are looking for a new land, parts of our sparsely populated Surinam as well.
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by finished: I have read somewhere that Ashkenazim Jews are found to have the highest average IQ of any ethnic group, scoring 12 to 15 points above the European average.
At the same time, it has been found that they are also prone to a number of serious genetic diseases.
Neurological disorders, including Tay-Sachs, Gaucher's, and Niemann-Pick. Tay-Sachs is a fatal inherited disease of the central nervous system. Sufferers lack an enzyme needed to break down fatty substances in the brain and nerve cells. Gauchers and Niemann-Pick are similar, often fatal diseases.
Researchers now suggest that intelligence is closely linked to such illnesses in Ashkenazi Jews, and that the diseases are the result of natural selection.
LOL, the whole concept of IQ is an Ashkenazi Jew concept and development. Little wonder their group scores highest. They are the IDEAL. One of the leading defects Ashkenazi Jews spread across the globe and are universally afflicted is, Albinism.
As for CLARENCE Walker he states;
"Black people are not the same today as they were in the past," he says. "We are of African descent, but we are not African."
Am I mistaken, are doesn't he know that black people populate Africa, or did he actually mean to say, Black Americans? Anyway, the coconut is sort of right, but makes his case very poorly. Far too much emphasis is placed on Egypt's having black origins, but it's more a matter of skewed priorities as we observe on this very site.
Diop's priorities were very much more in line with the correct prioritizing of tasks and vital steps needed to establish Egypt's ethic origins with certainty.
Mr. Walker offers nothing new and as far as I'm concerned, he's no more then another white man's Thomas Showell.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
^ That picture appears to have been taken in Baltimore, MD., and the man on the right seems to be a member of the Nation Of Islam. Both children appear to share both parents. One with normal appearance while the other displays Albinism OCA1 traits. All four carry the trait.
Posts: 3595 | From: Moved To Mars. Waiting with shotgun | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
Walker like Shelby Steele is just another pimp from the academe making money by attacking Afrocentrism.
Steele is a great linguist, but Walker if you look at his publications has contributed nothing really to the advancement of AA studies.
.
quote:Originally posted by meninarmer:
quote:Originally posted by finished: I have read somewhere that Ashkenazim Jews are found to have the highest average IQ of any ethnic group, scoring 12 to 15 points above the European average.
At the same time, it has been found that they are also prone to a number of serious genetic diseases.
Neurological disorders, including Tay-Sachs, Gaucher's, and Niemann-Pick. Tay-Sachs is a fatal inherited disease of the central nervous system. Sufferers lack an enzyme needed to break down fatty substances in the brain and nerve cells. Gauchers and Niemann-Pick are similar, often fatal diseases.
Researchers now suggest that intelligence is closely linked to such illnesses in Ashkenazi Jews, and that the diseases are the result of natural selection.
LOL, the whole concept of IQ is an Ashkenazi Jew concept and development. Little wonder their group scores highest. They are the IDEAL. One of the leading defects Ashkenazi Jews spread across the globe and are universally afflicted is, Albinism.
As for CLARENCE Walker he states;
"Black people are not the same today as they were in the past," he says. "We are of African descent, but we are not African."
Am I mistaken, are doesn't he know that black people populate Africa, or did he actually mean to say, Black Americans? Anyway, the coconut is sort of right, but makes his case very poorly. Far too much emphasis is placed on Egypt's having black origins, but it's more a matter of skewed priorities as we observe on this very site.
Diop's priorities were very much more in line with the correct prioritizing of tasks and vital steps needed to establish Egypt's ethic origins with certainty.
Mr. Walker offers nothing new and as far as I'm concerned, he's no more then another white man's Thomas Showell.
[REVISIONISM IN ACTION, RIGHT HERE: A BLACK EUROPEAN ELITE RENDERED WHITE BY FAKED PORTRAITS; LORENZO THE MEDICI, DUKE OF FLORENCE, DESCRIBED AS 'DARK AND SWARTHY WITH A FLATTENED NOSE']
AFROCENTRISM sometimes reminds me of a church with many different branches. I’m willing to countenance the other branches and believe that when 10% of all people are informed about the truth, things will rapidly change. If we could only work together, respect and accept one another.
But I’m convinced that my approach is new, very different but BETTER, as I look for the ORIGINS of Scientific Racism against Blacks and launched my BLUE BLOOD IS BLACK BLOOD theory. Racism needs to be deconstructed, exposed: we need a handle on racism. How did it start? Why? When?
Afrocentric Egyptology has been explored to death and only brain dead people will believe that the pyramid builders and pharaoh's were White’s. The traditional study of slavery is to me to traumatising for Blacks, and I'm not fond of all attention going to how backward Blacks remained in order to extract compensation money. Which will not benefit the poor Blacks, anyway. It’s too much like convincing Blacks they were slaves and will always remain slaves. Slavery is only 500 years while Black civilisation is 10.000 years. Needless to say, some people do not like Egmond Codfried pointing out that the Surinam slave masters were European Blacks and Coloureds, part of the elite. Sometimes at odds with the rest of the elite because of religion.
I would like all of you to pay attention to my findings and find more proof that the Blue blooded European nobility and Kings were Black and Coloured people. Blue Blood was their Black Identity which made intermarriage their central rule. They were the descendents of the original Europeans, who were known as Blue Men in Medieval times, from before the Whites invaded about 5000 years ago.
Why? Because the other approaches like Egyptology and Slavery are not working towards a change for Black peoples. To me Afrocentrism is not reversed racism. Whites are victims too. What would be the gain if we replace one kind of racism with another? While we all can proof that White Superiority is based on a revisionism of history supported by fake, whitened, over painted portraits, which show the Black elite as White's.
Posts: 5454 | From: Holland | Registered: Aug 2008
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If the purpose of "race"/IQ discourse were or had really been to achieve a better understanding of how genetic, cultural and/or other factors may impact given entities' productivity (or capability or competence) within a given framework/society (or within an IQ test ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
) it would purely look at the given genetic and cultural factors and statistics instead of *trying to see how the data positions or ranks their socially constructed groups or 'races' (regardless of social factors?) and 
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