Since in the past the term "white" was used for a person whose complexion was like a "black" person today, one must wonder what it is that the Arabs of the past called people who were "white" in the sense that the word is used today. In the past, those who had complexions like those who are considered "white" today were called red.
Tha'alab, the Arabic language scholar of the 9th century AD says, "The Arabs don't say that a man is white because of a white complexion. 'White' to the Arabs means that a person is pure, without any faults. If they meant that his complexion was 'white', they said 'red'".
Ibn Mandour says that the expression The Red People applies to the non-Arabs because of their whiteness and because of the fact that most of them are fair-skinned. He says that the Arabs used to call the non-Arabs such as the Romans and the Persians and their neighbors, The Red People. He also says that when the Arabs say that someone is white, they mean that he has a noble character--they don't mean that he is white. He says that the Arabs call the slaves The Red People. This is because most of the slaves of the Arabs were white (red). Click below for original in Arabic.
Not to rehash old arguments, and in fact far from it, I just want to recall that earlier in another discussion, I noted the "fetish" the Quran supposedly had with "very fair women" [see below], and although I knew the Quran was portraying said paradise female subjects as being "pure", I didn't immediately draw the connection between description of their being "very fair" and their state of "purity". Now I can see that link, in light of the citation above; it's starting to make more sense...
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer:
At Sura 52:24, it says...
And there will go round boy-servants of theirs, to serve them as if they were preserved pearls.
But right before that, in the same Sura verse 20, it says this:
They will recline (with ease) on thrones arranged in ranks. And We shall marry them to Hur (female, fair ones) with wide loverly eyes.
Why would there be a need to marry "them" to Hur, the "fair females"?
For Flaco's reference to Sura 56:17, it says this...
Immortal boys will go around to them (serving),
But right after that, it says this, in verse 18 and 19 respectively....
With cups, and jugs, and a glass of flowing wine,
Wherefrom they will get neither any aching of the head, nor any intoxication.
And again, for Sura 56, in verses 22, 23, and 24...
And (there will be ) Hur (fair females) with wide, lovely eyes (as wives for "Al-Muttaqun" - the pious - See V.2:2),
Like unto preserved pearls.
A reward for what they used to do.
The same question applies here; why the "Hur" female offering as "wives"?
In response to Falco's reference to Sura 76, verse 19, it says this...
And round about them will (serve) boys of everlasting youth. If you see them, you would think them scattered pearls.
And indeed, I see "boys of everlasting youth" and "scattered pearls" that Flaco seems to be referring to in that line.
But then, I looked at the preceding verses of that Sura, and examined the grammatic nature of them; from verse 15, 16, 17, and 18 respectively...
And amongst them will be passed round vessels of silver and cups of crystal --
Crystal-clear, made of silver. They will determine the measure thereof (according to their wishes).
And they will be given to drink there of a cup (of wine) mixed with Zanjabil (ginger),
A spring there, called Salsabil.
Now, paying attention to the grammar, with emphasis on the highlighted bits, I can't help but notice that while "everlasting youth" is undeniably a reference to the boys in verse 19, "scattered pearls" as a reference to them may not be all that apparent, as per the grammar rules. In fact, it "scattered pearls" appears to be a reference to the subjects in paradise, who serve as models for the reader, so as to give an idea of what the rewards would be if the reader enters paradise. "You" here, appears to be a direct reference to the reader. So, "scattered pearls" is a reference to the paradise entrants rather than the boys [presumably of "everlasting youth"] who are serving them. But what are they serving these paradise entrants with; is it sexual in nature? Well, the answer to that lies in verses 15 through to 18. Those boy servants simply serve them "wine mixed with Zanjabil"; no mention of anything of sexual nature that I can think of. The idea here is that, the paradise entrants are being served as if they were precious or important, you know, like "scattered pearls" by paradise servants who just so happen to be male servants who physically sport "everlasting youthfulness"...after all this is paradise; even servants have to be pleasant looking, whether males or females.
In the other referenced Suras, we see the same theme; the paradise entrants, presumably of male orientation, as can be judged from the need to marry them with "Hur" females, are described as "preserved pearls" as a way of relating the supposed importance or prestige with which they are treated in paradise, and getting served with wine and drinks [and nothing more that I can come across] by boy-servants. If anything else, it seems the Koran has a bias, or a **fetish if you will, for "very fair" Females**. No? Then in what other context are any of these being related, and as demonstrated by what?...
As for suras pertaining the "Hurs" (or heaven virgins), of course they are mentioned; though I take it that they being seen a symbols of beauty, are emphasized, as part of that air of the overall beauty and comfort of paradise. That's one way to look at it; and of course, there's the other way to look at it, i.e. your way, of simply seeing things sexual as in a sex party of some sort, LOL. I mean, it isn't exactly rocket science that the "Hurs" can only be there for the paradise entrant's pleasure, after all, why else one would need a "Hur" in paradise in the first place? And why is there a need for a heaven female companion(s) to be Hur? Well, it's simple: this is paradise; hence, the rewarded entrant is only rewarded with all things "fresh" and "pure", and yes, including the "Hur". That's what some of these verses intend to relay in their descriptive-invocation of the Hur ("freshly" created, and hence, "pure" female companions). Henceforth, the primary intention here is not one of sexual innuendos, but I can see how *some* individuals may overlook that said theme, and instead read sexual innuendos into them. At any rate, the invocation of the offerings of these "Hur" clearly hurt your case about the offering of adolescent males for sexual intentions. Think about it, while you address the above.
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^Bernal does a very interesting exegesis of the word "Hur" and related words. The word he says means noble or free born and resonates throughout Afroasiatic: 1)Egyptian: Heru/Horus 2)Greek (massive Afro Asiatic influence): Heracles/Hercules. 3)Hebrew/Aramaic example: Ben-Hur 4)Swahili (derived from Arabic): Uhuru.
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THE PREDOMINANT AND ORIGINAL POPULATION OF ANCIENT EGYPT ACCORDING TO EUROPEAN “SCHOLARS” AND “HISTORIANS” - Edited by Dana Marniche
quote:Up until the 19th century, and in the centuries previous, European visitors to Egypt commonly contrasted the dark brown, “half-naked” and indigenous Fellaheen agriculturalists with the “fair” or “pale-complexioned” Turkish-originated population of Egypt dressed in robes and furs that had entered the country in large numbers. Today most natives of the United Arab Republic of Eygpt consider themselves (thanks to European colonials) representative of the indigenous people of ancient Egypt . However, it is clear that less than a century ago this was not the case. Most of the agriculturalists in Egypt had absorbed for centuries the incoming Bedouins of the Arabian peninsula who were according to most accounts dark or brown and the same color as the indigenous Egyptians , as well as large numbers of slaves in early days from Asia and later mostly African and Slavic slaves. Descendants of Byzantines made up a significant number of the early “Copts” during the Muslim era. On the other hand Turks in the 18th through 20th centuries made up a rather significant portion of Egypt ’s major cities and their descendants remain representative of the upper class of Egypt as well as other regions of North Africa.
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