posted
Today's cover from nature has a secondary structure of ENTIRE HIV genome (RNA)
That is a good news. Also, we also know the structure of the protein that causes the virus to replicate (reverse transcriptase HIV).
My question is, why it takes so long to find a drug???? The structure of the transcriptase is known almost (or more?) 10 years!, why can't we find a drug?
You might find this silly, but reading other drug developments, I can not understand why it takes so long for HIV.
Posts: 2198 | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
Because there is no HIV Aids virus linkage. It is just a power grabbing, money-making myth launched by the wicked Knights of the Hospitaliers, an ancient military order for the promotion of European hegemony now masquerading as institutions of healing and treatment.
Thinking people should take a closer look at this HIV theory once again.
posted
99% of the quotes are about 15years old. Isn't there more recent statements. Have things changed since then?
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Because there is no HIV Aids virus linkage. It is just a power grabbing, money-making myth launched by the wicked Knights of the Hospitaliers, an ancient military order for the promotion of European hegemony now masquerading as institutions of healing and treatment.
Thinking people should take a closer look at this HIV theory once again.
quote:The structure of the transcriptase is known almost (or more?) 10 years!, why can't we find a drug?
There is some question as to whether the structure of HIV is truly known given that the virus has not been fully isolated as required by the protocols of virology.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: 99% of the quotes are about 15years old. Isn't there more recent statements. Have things changed since then?
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Because there is no HIV Aids virus linkage. It is just a power grabbing, money-making myth launched by the wicked Knights of the Hospitaliers, an ancient military order for the promotion of European hegemony now masquerading as institutions of healing and treatment.
Thinking people should take a closer look at this HIV theory once again.
posted
As far "finding a drug(s)" goes , aside from economic and geopolitical "obstructants", could the issue be that the virus is highly replicative, with very high incidence of "mutations"(?)
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Many kinds of Yellow buses in lagos. Molue and Danfo. Molue is the mystic one. We call them bus there "Zion Train"!
From Oshodi bus-stop, one heads to Ikeja bus-stop... then straight to Opebi/Allen Road junction.
Or you can go through Yaba, Anthony, Coconut, Maryland, Barracks, Ikeja busstop then on to Allen road, the millonaires avenue.
Take care bro!
Lion!
Dang! You really are a Nigerian. Not only that but a Lagos man proper...
I practically grew up in Allen Avenue though home was actually in Oregun, it was so boring there was nothing to do out there. Allen is where it was at in the 80s/early 90s. Water parks (loved it! ), Mr Biggz, Games World (or was that in Opebi?), Mega Plaza, New Yorker (for the ladies) and then there is the ONE AND ONLY University of Suya!!! Posts: 1819 | From: odesco baba | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Generally, viral are unstable, so that is not the issue. But when you have the structure AND where the protein that causes the virus to replicate and the position on the ribosomes and tRNA, it should be an easy target to eliminate totally the ability of replication.
Posts: 2198 | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
Yes...IronLion, Molue was the one I really wanted to get on but my mother BANNED us from getting on them. Too dangerous she said.
But when I was in boarding school, I got on them quite a few times. Escaping out of the concentration camps (which they call "schools" ) literally through the jungle with black mambas and other poisonous snakes to boot (or "slippers" in our case ), and hopping buses from Ogun state to Lagos was rather fun. All that jazz, danger, and uncertainty and excitement at the age of 12. Priceless! Posts: 1819 | From: odesco baba | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Christ!!! Talk about health and safety in schools!!!
quote:
Black mamba venom contains powerful, fast-acting neurotoxins and cardiotoxins, including calciseptine. Its bite delivers about 100–120 mg of venom on average; however it can deliver up to 400 mg. If the venom reaches a vein, 0.25 mg/kg is sufficient to kill a human in 50% of cases. The initial symptom of the bite is local pain in the bite area, although not as severe as snakes with hemotoxins. The victim then experiences a tingling sensation in the mouth and extremities, ptosis, diplopia (double vision), dysphagia, tunnel vision, ophthalmoparesis, severe confusion, dysarthria, fever, diaphoresis (excessive perspiration), excessive salivation (including foaming of the mouth and nose), and pronounced ataxia (lack of muscle control). If the victim does not receive medical attention, symptoms rapidly progress to severe abdominal pain, nausea and vomiting, lymphadenopathy, dyspnea (shortness of breath), epistaxis, pallor, shock, nephrotoxicity, cardiotoxicity, and paralysis. Eventually, the victim experiences convulsions, respiratory arrest, coma, and then death. Without antivenom, the mortality rate is nearly 100%, the highest among venomous snakes.
Me thinks continental Africans have far more to worry about than spoof diseases.
Posts: 1819 | From: odesco baba | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
I read through some of the links.. . hence my statement. "MOST ARE 15yrs old." Could it be they are not refuted because they are considered to be on the lunatic fringe.
After all. . .What are these people dying from?
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: 99% of the quotes are about 15years old. Isn't there more recent statements. Have things changed since then?
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Because there is no HIV Aids virus linkage. Lion!
Bro
Just read on through the information. Your common sense will judge for you who is right and wrong.
But just give yourself a chance and read the information...I know it will challenge your paradigm but sooner than you know, the message sinks in.
The scientific facts given by the anti-Aids dissidents have not been refuted or disproven. Truth is still the truth, even 1000 years later.
Lion!
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: I read through some of the links.. . hence my statement. "MOST ARE 15yrs old." Could it be they are not refuted because they are considered to be on the lunatic fringe.
After all. . .What are these people dying from?
I don't belive everything I read.
eg who will believe that I plane can hit super sky scraper at the tip and the scrapper can freefall about 2hrs later. This happened twice within the same two hours. What is the probabaility of that happening. They both fell within minutes of each other.
So back to HIV - there is this radio announcer pushing "there is no AIDS' thing here in Philly. He says there it is a gay disease but what do you expect from the nutty right?
Can figure out his agenda why keep pushing it.
quote:Originally posted by IronLion:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: 99% of the quotes are about 15years old. Isn't there more recent statements. Have things changed since then?
quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Because there is no HIV Aids virus linkage. Lion!
Bro
Just read on through the information. Your common sense will judge for you who is right and wrong.
But just give yourself a chance and read the information...I know it will challenge your paradigm but sooner than you know, the message sinks in.
The scientific facts given by the anti-Aids dissidents have not been refuted or disproven. Truth is still the truth, even 1000 years later.
Lion!
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
. . . We know this Mexican swine flu was all hype.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
^^So what is lunatic about the theory of no HIV-AIDs linkage?
Do you know about Dr. Duesberg? He discovered retrovirus iin the 1970s doing cancer research. he says there is no such thing as HIV causing Aids. Are you smarter or more sane than he is?
Do you know Dr. Kary Mullis. She is a nobel prize winner in chemistry. Google her name. She does not buy the HIV-AIDs theory. Are you smarter or more sane than she is?
There is Dr. Stephanopoulus in Australia. One of the leading bio-chemists of this world. She does not buy the AIDs theory.
Dr Stephan Lanka one of the best micro-biologists in the world. He is German. He does not buy the Aids theory. Are you better than he is? Do you know more science than him?
Learn with humility little bro. It can save your life.
Lion!
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Obatala: Yes...IronLion, Molue was the one I really wanted to get on but my mother BANNED us from getting on them. Too dangerous she said.
But when I was in boarding school, I got on them quite a few times. Escaping out of the concentration camps (which they call "schools" ) literally through the jungle with black mambas and other poisonous snakes to boot (or "slippers" in our case ), and hopping buses from Ogun state to Lagos was rather fun. All that jazz, danger, and uncertainty and excitement at the age of 12. Priceless!
Man
U take me back! I have to touch base with Bar Beach or Lekki Beach again to recharge my vibes. Been away for too long!
Maybe one day I gonna cross ya in Las-Gidi. We will touch base at the Afrika shrine and burn incense to the departed elders.
Lion!
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
"unstable" and "mutations" are not interchangeable; this is genetics we are taking about -- thought I'd make that clear!
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Multiple drugs are necessary because HIV continually accumulates random changes (mutations) in its genetic material (genome). Some of these mutations make HIV resistant to individual antiretroviral drugs(ART), so a mixture of drugs is needed to keep the virus in check. However, the efficacy of ART ( (which itself selects for drug-resistant variants by giving them a growth advantage over drug-sensitive variants)
even with reverse transcriptse and ART , thats the drugs the virus continues to genetically mutate and indefinately. The problem also is with those people infected who develop resistance to the drugs and those newl drug resistant viruses can be transmitted in the same way a non resistant virus transmits
has anyone heared of a number of giant pharmaceuticals suspending their research and cutting their budgets on HIV research. Roche has suspended man of its lab researches and johnosn and johnson had a 50% cut in budget, as they concluded no much prgress is being made
to be short its all about genetic and structural changes and absence of linkages as many of u mentioned above
Posts: 689 | From: Miami Beach, FL | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by EgyptianDoc77: i have read that volume of Nature
Multiple drugs are necessary because HIV continually accumulates random changes (mutations) in its genetic material (genome). Some of these mutations make HIV resistant to individual antiretroviral drugs(ART), so a mixture of drugs is needed to keep the virus in check. However, the efficacy of ART ( (which itself selects for drug-resistant variants by giving them a growth advantage over drug-sensitive variants)
even with reverse transcriptse and ART , thats the drugs the virus continues to genetically mutate and indefinately. The problem also is with those people infected who develop resistance to the drugs and those newl drug resistant viruses can be transmitted in the same way a non resistant virus transmits
has anyone heared of a number of giant pharmaceuticals suspending their research and cutting their budgets on HIV research. Roche has suspended man of its lab researches and johnosn and johnson had a 50% cut in budget, as they concluded no much prgress is being made
to be short its all about genetic and structural changes and absence of linkages as many of u mentioned above
What the heck are you talking about sir???
HIV retrovirus is not even a living organism so to speak.
It is a piece of RNA protein.
How is a protein molecule able to outwit all the applications and theories of modern science given its very basic structure? Which other protein molecule have you heard so endowed?
Where are the mutations occurring??? What branches of the molecules? What portion of the organic structure has changes??
Man, itz good to know what we are talking about before shooting off our mouths like we are some experts!
Lion!
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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Multiple drugs are necessary because HIV continually accumulates random changes (mutations) in its genetic material (genome). Some of these mutations make HIV resistant to individual antiretroviral drugs(ART), so a mixture of drugs is needed to keep the virus in check. However, the efficacy of ART ( (which itself selects for drug-resistant variants by giving them a growth advantage over drug-sensitive variants)
even with reverse transcriptse and ART , thats the drugs the virus continues to genetically mutate and indefinately....
Good to know that some of us are catching on faster than others. I did not emphasize 'mutations', nor did I make my point in the form of a question for nothing.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by EgyptianDoc77: i have read that volume of Nature
Multiple drugs are necessary because HIV continually accumulates random changes (mutations) in its genetic material (genome). Some of these mutations make HIV resistant to individual antiretroviral drugs(ART), so a mixture of drugs is needed to keep the virus in check. However, the efficacy of ART ( (which itself selects for drug-resistant variants by giving them a growth advantage over drug-sensitive variants)
even with reverse transcriptse and ART , thats the drugs the virus continues to genetically mutate and indefinately. The problem also is with those people infected who develop resistance to the drugs and those newl drug resistant viruses can be transmitted in the same way a non resistant virus transmits
has anyone heared of a number of giant pharmaceuticals suspending their research and cutting their budgets on HIV research. Roche has suspended man of its lab researches and johnosn and johnson had a 50% cut in budget, as they concluded no much prgress is being made
to be short its all about genetic and structural changes and absence of linkages as many of u mentioned above
What the heck are you talking about sir???
HIV retrovirus is not even a living organism so to speak.
It is a piece of RNA protein.
How is a protein molecule able to outwit all the applications and theories of modern science given its very basic structure? Which other protein molecule have you heard so endowed?
Where are the mutations occurring??? What branches of the molecules? What portion of the organic structure has changes??
Man, itz good to know what we are talking about before shooting off our mouths like we are some experts!
Lion!
well sir
first of all who mentioned any fact about a living organism,
and what with the RNA ptn.. ( If u ask a 10yrs olf kid he would know that) so where is your point if any!!!and what crap are u talking about and what myth theories
Seems you never read what i wrote, take a look and check what its all about if you have any scientific background ( assuming ur a lover of wisdom) u'd understand what i talked about
then its a very well reserved right for anyone to express his view and not for you to tell me to keep my mouth shut .
wanna know what portion the mutations occuring and what sequence changes happen ( i would lecture u hours on that and ur welcome to attend one of our sessions though i doubt its far beyound ur understanding)!!!
finally all i have mentioned is scientifically cited data and not mouth running
then u asked if i run mouth as an expert !! well accept it or not, but yeah am at least more expert than u r in this field and check the profile to know
some respect seriosuly when we debate!!! We arent in Lagos baba
Posts: 689 | From: Miami Beach, FL | Registered: Mar 2004
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Multiple drugs are necessary because HIV continually accumulates random changes (mutations) in its genetic material (genome). Some of these mutations make HIV resistant to individual antiretroviral drugs(ART), so a mixture of drugs is needed to keep the virus in check. However, the efficacy of ART ( (which itself selects for drug-resistant variants by giving them a growth advantage over drug-sensitive variants)
even with reverse transcriptse and ART , thats the drugs the virus continues to genetically mutate and indefinately....
Good to know that some of us are catching on faster than others. I did not emphasize 'mutations', nor did I make my point in the form of a question for nothing.
it does even with new drug resistant variants of the virus that replicate and spread same way ...good point i admit
Posts: 689 | From: Miami Beach, FL | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Yeap. "Mutations" make additional strains of the virus unpredictable...not to mention, "alter" the basic structure of virus from "source" to "offspring".
Ps - ...mind you, bringing to attention such specifics is not meant to downplay the role of politics and corporate greed in delaying distribution of effective means to contain the spread of HIV!
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Ps - ...mind you, bringing to attention such specifics is not meant to downplay the role of politics and corporate greed in delaying distribution of effective means to contain the spread of HIV!
an excellent point which would need hours of discussion and which would raise the relationship of poliics and pahrmaceutical giants monopoly. agreed
Posts: 689 | From: Miami Beach, FL | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
^why are you focusing only the protein level? Why not go higher up? Before the genome is even translated by the ribosome? We know the structure of WHOLE! ribosome (e. coli, can't be different than eukaryote), we know several of tRNA structures, and we know where HIV's ssRNA binds to the ribosome.
Basically, what you have is an open reading and naked ssRNA, and the question is, why it takes so long to find a drug?
And also remember, there are intensive researches available from other HIV's ssRNA related family.
Posts: 2198 | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
HIV; REALITY OR ARTEFACT? By Stefan Lanka PH.D
Continuum April/May 1995
An error can never become true however many times you repeat it. The truth can never be wrong, even if no one ever hears about it.
Mahatma Gandhi
For the past 10 years or so it has been the accepted wisdom that the human immuno-deficiency virus, HIV, causes AIDS. It supposedly occurs in many body fluids, and its transmission especially in semen and blood to a new host, triggers a slow but inexorable progression to AIDS and ultimately death. To infect another cell, HIV must at some stage in its life cycle exist as a separate and identifiable entity.
What has been ignored and kept from public awareness is, that there has never been a workable HIV test and that the definition of 'positive' has always changed according to the views of different organisations dealing with it, changed also according to the kind of tests used and changed from laboratory to laboratory performing the tests:
".. Its techniques have not been standardised, and the magnitude and consequences of interlaboratory variations have not been measured. Its results require interpretation, and the criteria for this interpretation vary not only from laboratory to laboratory but also from month to month .."(1)
The dispute over who discovered HIV (2), was a distraction from the question of whether the virus actually exists at all. The public was impressed that if a President and a Prime Minister (3) had to meet to resolve attribution, then the thing they were negotiating about must be real.
In 1993 a research group from Perth, Australia succeeded in publishing a paper on the HIV test.(4) Since then anybody could have read for him or herself that no AIDS test could ever work, because HIV has never been isolated nor even shown to exist. Since AIDS research and the media have largely ignored any critique of HIV=AIDS, especially the essential question of whether HIV really does exist, it is time to call again for a reappraisal of the whole HIV/AIDS hypothesis. In going back to the origins of HIV virology and telling the HIV story, a view will be presented which will make clear that HIV itself, the very object of this Manhattan Project of modern medicine, AIDS research, does not exist.(5)
A little virology
Viruses are essentially just packages of genetic information enclosed in a coat which consists of proteins. They can reproduce themselves only by infecting a suitable host cell and appropriating the chemical machinery they find there. The proteins making up the viruses are characteristic for each species of virus. Apart from enveloping and transporting the genetic information intact, the composition of proteins for a given virus results in a specific shape for the virus particle.
This much is generally known. Less well-known is the existence of other particles which look like viruses but aren't, and are nonchalantly referred to as "virus-like" particles. Such particles are far from rare, found, for example, always in placentas, and very frequently in the artificial environment of laboratory cell cultures. They have served to muddy the waters considerably as far as AIDS research is concerned, because particles just like these have been called HIV. To date, none of these has been characterised and shown to exist as an entity which one may justifiably call a virus.
One root of the belief in the AIDS virus
In classical theory DNA encodes the genetic material of heredity, which is then transcribed into messenger RNA which in turn specifies the assembly of amino-acids to construct the proteins of all living beings. In 1970 an enzyme (biological catalyst) was discovered in extracts of certain cells which was capable of converting a molecule of RNA into DNA. This was a revolutionary discovery, because it overturned a fundamental tenet of molecular genetics, namely, that the flow of information was strictly one-way and never reversed. It had hitherto always been thought that DNA was transcribed (converted) into messenger RNA and that the reverse process from RNA to DNA was impossible. The enzyme responsible became known as reverse transcriptase (6) and a lot of new myths arose.
1 Klemens B. Meyer and Stephen G. Pauker. 1987. Screening for HIV: Can we afford the false positive rate? NEJM 317: 238-241. See also: Marsha F. Goldsmith. 1985. HTLV-III testing of donor blood imminent; complex issues remain. JAMA 253: 81-86, 173-175, 179-181.
2 John Crewdson. The Great AIDS Quest. Special report. Nov. 19. 1989. Chicago Tribune.
3 Frankel, Mark; Mary Hager, Theodore Stanger. July 25 1994. The End of a Scientific Feud. Newsweek.
4 Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos, Valendar F. Turner, John M. Papadimitriou. 1993. Is a positive Western Blot proof of HIV infection? Bio/Technology 11: 696-707.
5 A similar article was published in a German monthly: Stefan Lanka. 1994. Fehldiagnose AIDS? Wechselwirkung, Aachen, December, 48-53.
6 Temin H.M. and Mizutani. 1970. Viral RNA-dependent DNA-polymerase. Nature 226: 1211-1213. Temin H.M. and Baltimore D. 1972. RNA-directed DNA synthesis and RNA tumor viruses. Adv Vir Res 17: 129-186.
quote:Originally posted by Obatala: Yes...IronLion, Molue was the one I really wanted to get on but my mother BANNED us from getting on them. Too dangerous she said.
But when I was in boarding school, I got on them quite a few times. Escaping out of the concentration camps (which they call "schools" ) literally through the jungle with black mambas and other poisonous snakes to boot (or "slippers" in our case ), and hopping buses from Ogun state to Lagos was rather fun. All that jazz, danger, and uncertainty and excitement at the age of 12. Priceless!
i feel you bro
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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If HIV virus was never isolated from Human cells, how come we know the atomic structure of the virus protein that causes the virus to replicate, reverse transcriptase? How was this enzyme isolated so we could crystallize and find the atomic structure? How was this enzyme purified and cultivated? PS, I AM OFF LINE UNTIL FRIDAY!Posts: 2198 | Registered: Jun 2006
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I will find you how they did this. It was probably from cell cultures with other material thrown in. But rest assured that until today, no scientist has ever isolated HIV from the cell of any so called HIV-AIDs human being living or dead.
Lion!
-------------------- Lionz Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by IronLion: ^^So what is lunatic about the theory of no HIV-AIDs linkage?
Do you know about Dr. Duesberg? He discovered retrovirus iin the 1970s doing cancer research. he says there is no such thing as HIV causing Aids. Are you smarter or more sane than he is?
Do you know Dr. Kary Mullis. She is a nobel prize winner in chemistry. Google her name. She does not buy the HIV-AIDs theory. Are you smarter or more sane than she is?
There is Dr. Stephanopoulus in Australia. One of the leading bio-chemists of this world. She does not buy the AIDs theory.
Dr Stephan Lanka one of the best micro-biologists in the world. He is German. He does not buy the Aids theory. Are you better than he is? Do you know more science than him?
Learn with humility little bro. It can save your life.
Lion!
Those scientists above belong to the group dubbed, AIDS dissidents. The vast majority of geneticists or virologist do not hold their position.
HIV produces AIDS. There is no doubt about it, even though Dr Duesberg believes otherwise.
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: Also take a look at <hivskpetic.wordpress.com> managed by Professor-Chemist, Henry Bauer. Interesting and detailed discussions.
Als the HIV/AIDS thing is heavily tinged with racism.
Lamin
You are just too wise!
Lion! Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
so what is AIDS. What causes it? Since there is no linkage.
As I said you are providing 15yo information.
what is Dr Duesberg current view. We know what he thought 15ya.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
The effects of pineal gland calcification is a pitiful thing to observe.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: so what is AIDS. What causes it? Since there is no linkage.
As I said you are providing 15yo information.
what is Dr Duesberg current view. We know what he thought 15ya.
Go ask the establishment what is Aids. But here is my definition, it is a complex of about 30 or more known diseases ranging from night sweat, to recurrent fever, to thrush, and candida.
Aids is not one disease. It is an immune weakness according to them. What causes the immune system to weaken? Chemicals or bacteria?
And you can go research Dr. Duesberg for your self. You do not need to buy my words for it.
Listen, the principles of mathematics were discovered and laid down more than 5,000 years ago by the ancient Egyptians. Can you tell me when last it was updated?
Lion!
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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As one of the older members of this forum, it comes as a pain to me to see many young minds here pretending to be seeking knowledge but only trying to make a show of their ignorance. This they learnt from other more favoured older posters like the Robot, and Dr.DNA. Those ones spent time and years here disrespecting other members and censoring any counter attack on their foolishness. The management tolerated and aided them.
Alas, ES has now become a gathering for ignoramuses who would rather set up a noisy and insolent chatter than engage in reasoned logical discussion.
Lion!
-------------------- Lionz Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
@ Lord of the Nile - if that was you couple of years ago. Great posting then but. . . .
All the information on Dr Duesberg is 15yo!!! Excuse me. The above is jibberish.
If it is not a virus. . .according to you. Then what sets off the “diseases”. Are you saying chemicals(drugs)/and or bacteria. What causes the immune system to start failing in certain individuals. What is the “selection” process.
Are you saying the disease was always there??
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
This is between me and YH.. . .and Sauron. BTW stop screwing up the thread YH.
@Lion. I am waiting. Some of you vets get so. . . sensitive . . .when you are questioned about your illogical views.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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) literally through the jungle with black mambas and other poisonous snakes to boot (or "slippers" in our case 
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