Talking about subdivisions of the African race, this here is relevant.
The Afro-american historian, Runoko Rashidi sent a letter today about Djehuti's country, the Philippines where black Negritos lived before the present population. By the way, is Djehuti a brother? I mean a black-skinned Philippine Negrito with kinky hair? Or maybe his ancestors were? Anybody know?
THE GLOBAL AFRICAN COMMUNITY
H I S T O R Y N O T E S
BLACK PEOPLE IN THE PHILIPPINES
By RUNOKO RASHIDI
DEDICATED TO BROTHER DAVID FAGAN (ANCESTOR)
"There are black Negroes in this island who pay tribute to no one." --Early Spanish historian
Although the great majority of the people of the Philippines are Tagalog, the country is not ethnically homogeneous. In spite of their small numbers the original inhabitants of the Philippines are the Agta (diminutive Africoids), who still live there in some numbers and are commonly and pejoratively called Pygmies, Negritos and Aeta, and a variety of other names based upon their specific locale. In regards to phenotype, broadly speaking, the Agta can be described as physically small and unusually short in stature, dark-skinned, spiral-haired and broad-nosed. They are an extremely ancient people and, I believe, close representatives of the world's earliest modern humans.
Very similar groups of Black people in Asia reside in relative small numbers in the Andaman Islands in the Bay of Bengal in the Indian Ocean north of the Indonesian island of Sumatra, and in northern Malaysia and southern Thailand in Southeast Asia. In Thailand they are commonly called Sakai. In Malaysia they have been called Orang Asli (Original Man). Pejoratively they are known as Semang, with the connotation of savage. It is very unfortunate that the contributions of these small Black people to monumental high-cultures characterized by urbanization, metallurgy, agricultural science and scripts remain essentially unexamined.
The presence of diminutive Africoids (whom Chinese historians called "Black Dwarfs") in early southern China during the period of the Three Kingdoms (ca. 250 C.E.) is recorded in the book of the Official of the Liang Dynasty (502-556 C.E.). In Taiwan there are recollections of a group of people now said to be extinct called "Little Black Man."
"They were described as short, dark-skinned people with short curly hair.....These people, presumably Negritos, disappeared about 100 years ago. Their existence was mentioned in many Chinese documents of the Ching Dynasty concerning Taiwan."
Similar groups of Black people have been identified in Japan, Vietnam, Cambodia and Indonesia, and it seems almost certain that at one time a belt of Black populations of this type covered much of Asia.
In stark contrast to the Agta (the People), the Tagalog seem to have only entered the Philippines during the last several thousand years, and while almost nothing is known of the early history of the Agta in the Philippines it has been well-documented that they engaged in bitter martial conflicts with the Spanish invaders, whose presence in the islands began in the sixteenth century. Indeed, the country was named by the Spanish navigator Ruy Lopez de Villalobos for Prince Philip of Asturias, who, as Philip II, became the king of Spain in 1542. It was also the Spaniards who named the native people of the Philippines "Negritos" (Little Blacks).
The Spanish observed that "The Negritos, which our first conquerors found were, according to tradition, the first possessors of the islands of this Archipelago." Another account observed that "There are black negroes in this island who pay tribute to no one." Similar documents affirm the widespread presence and distribution of the Agta in the Philippines at the time of the Spanish intrusion. "If we are to believe later historians, the shores of some of the islands fairly swarmed with Negritos when the Spaniards arrived." The Bisayan island of Negroes derives its name from having been an Agta population center. Today, however, the Agta probably comprise less than one per cent of the total population of the Philippines.
The Agta men amassed quite a reputation as warriors, and although the accuracy of the report is somewhat questionable, it is said that the Agta were "such enemies to the Spaniards, that if they happen to kill one, they invite all their kindred, and rejoice for three days, drinking out of the skull, clear'd for that purpose; by which means, they afterwards get wives the easier, as being more courageous."
Dr. Pedro A. Gagelonia, a Filipino scholar, citing the commentaries of the European colonizers of the Philippines regarding the Agta, wrote that:
"They were the aborigines of the Philippines, and for a long time had been master of Luzon. At a time not very far distant, when the Spaniards conquered the country, the Aetas levied a kind of blackmail from the Tagalog villages situated on the banks of the lake of Bay (Laguna de Bay). At a fixed period they quitted their forests, entered the village, and forced the inhabitants to give them a certain quantity of rice and maize....After the conquest of the Philippines by the Spaniards, the latter took upon themselves the defense of the Tagalogs, and the Aetas, terrified by their firearms, remained in the forests, and did not reappear among the Indians."
THE ERUPTIONS OF MT. PINATUBO
The violent volcanic eruptions of Mt. Pinutabo in June 1991 were particularly devastating for the Agta. Alternately ignored and discriminated against, many Agta lived on the slopes of the long-dormant volcano that is regarded as the center of their cosmology. Forced down the mountain slopes by the eruptions, numbers of Agta, who have historically relied on the herbal medicines now buried under tons of mud and ash, have perished from dreadful epidemics of measles, diarrhea and pneumonia.
SOURCES: The Filipinos of Yesterdays, by Pedro A. Gagelonia The African Presence in Early Asia, edited by Runoko Rashidi
-------------------- The nature of homelife is the fate of the nation. Posts: 2334 | Registered: May 2006
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Other than to say I wonder how you can look at black people today and see faces different from those above, I have no further comment.
. .
I can't see how you think those Amerindian and indigenous north American indians are black/African. Those people look straight up indigenous to the Americas. I see black people every day all shapes, colors, and features and none of them look like the pictures posted. I have no further comment.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Yes, Marc I'm aware that blacks (Aetas) are the aboriginal people of the Philippines. That still does not change the fact that they are NOT African or that 'race' still does NOT exist!
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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"He [Dr. Winters] thinks that because of the history of racism among white scholars that any study that comes from a white scholar today must be false or faulty."
That is a patent lie.
Dr. Winters does recognize the scholarship of some white scholars as the following Youtube among countless others of his work shows:
Dj. You are a brother? A black-skinned negrito with kinky hair and of a lineage surviving the slaughter by the Spanish hundreds of years ago and of the diseases they carried? I know you don’t have murderous Spanish blood in your veins. Well. So much for that.
Umm. Hey. Here’s a word for us!
Delusion: Psychiatry. a belief held in the face of evidence to the contrary, that is resistant to all reason. See also illusion, hallucination.
Dj. You write:
All scholars agree that there is no such thing as 'race'"
[Marc writes] You’d agree that the University of Pennsylvania, one of the Ivy League schools, is full of scholars, right?
In their Museum Library, put in the word “race” and you get over 10,000 entries.
Now. You are tell us that ALL SCHOLARS AGREE THAT THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ‘RACE’’ and the Museum Library has over 10,000 books and stuff by scholars on race.
You are saying these 10,000 sources don’t exist (as ALL scholars agree there is no such thing as race)?
Wow. You are a true scholar!!
This is a case of a belief held in the face of evidence to the contrary, that is resistant to all reason.
What can we call Mr. Newly Graduate Djehuti the all-wise.
I’ll settle for the dictionary definition of delusional for you.
You, Dj, are a delusional, psychopathological liar.
. .
-------------------- The nature of homelife is the fate of the nation. Posts: 2334 | Registered: May 2006
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Djehuti says he is brown skinned; he defends ''black'' people on this site... yet he says he isn't black, because he is brown, and because he is a Philippino that gets him off the hook havin' all that brown skin and not being black. Djehuti, who are you? Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Don't you guys get tired of arguing about race? Surely, there are more important things to do.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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yes But culture and history takes a back seat everytime..trolls usually steer the conversation into something about race...people who should know better responed I myself included...or they will start a race-bait thread that most folk feel they have to respond. Some thread cannot avoid the race issue if you start talking about population origins. Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Grumman: Djehuti says he is brown skinned; he defends ''black'' people on this site... yet he says he isn't black, because he is brown, and because he is a Philippino that gets him off the hook havin' all that brown skin and not being black. Djehuti, who are you?
Djehuti doesn't 'defend' black people. He is smart and interested in history and ancient Egyptian history and he isn't black... just like most philipinos. You don't have to be black to be interested in black history. I know a swedish man who came to America to attend university and major in African American history/studies and when he go back to Sweden he will teach it to the students there.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Yeah. But unlike you he "says" he believes AE are Black Africans,.. . . . but he is a brown Phillipino. . .no black Phillipino. . . sh1t! now I really confused. . . . brown is black . .
Sh1T I give up! Who are you DJ?
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Yeah. But unlike you he "says" he believes AE are Black Africans,.. . . . but he is a brown Phillipino. . .no black Phillipino. . . sh1t! now I really confused. . . . brown is black . .
Sh1T I give up! Who are you DJ?
AE were black Africans so what does that has to do with his color or race. Philipinos aren't black people. The negrito is probably 1% of the population. A lot of people are brown and not black. The Amerindians of South America are brown but aren't black. A lot of Indians are brown and aren't black. You can't claim him as black because he isn't black. Like he said he is a brown philipino but not black.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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I know you are bit thick and don't belive in dinosaurs etc but. . . . what the fuhck did you just say?
Americans are not black because they(AA) make up what . . . 13% British are not black because they make up 3%
Set me straight!!
At least you got THAT right. . . AE were black Africans.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Ahem! Djehuti can speak for himself! And Djehuti is tired of all these false accusations and lies attributed to him! Face it, Marc and his mentor Clyde are debunked simply because their notions of 'race' which they rely on so much are!
And to everyone else, my 'color' is of no consequence but YES I am not black! Why does one have to be black to defend a black culture or any culture for that matter??! There are whites in this forum who speak out against the white-washing of Egypt, why are they not scrutinized??
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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He did not get it. sigh! Don't mean to insult you friend. . . but did you pass analytial thinking? But congrats anyhow.
Now let break it down. Don't want to rehash black negrod thread by Altk but. . .
Isn't this a double standard. Brown skinned Africans are called black Africans. Same here in the US. Even very light skinned AA, like my sister, are called black. But brown skinned Phillipinos are called . . . what. . .brown?
That is hypocritical . . .DJ
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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^ By 'brown' of course we are talking about medium hues lighter than 'black'. Why are Mexicans called 'brown' and not black??
By the way, don't bother starting stuff with me cuz I'm not YH. And definitely I'm not your boyfriend.
Posts: 26239 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Kamillion asks: ''Don't you guys get tired of arguing about race?''
Ignoring the topic of this thread are you?
''Surely, there are more important things to do.''
Yup, like paying attention to the topic.
Brada-Anansi writes:
''Some thread cannot avoid the race issue if you start talking about population origins.''
Welllll...
and... ''people who should know better responed I myself included...''
So you know better but can't help yourself? How does this work? Are you trying to tell me something?
I don't know any better so I'm home free. Leave me out of your indecisiveness.
Djehuti says:
''Why are Mexicans called 'brown' and not black??''
I suppose if there were any Mexicans on this site who said they were brown and not black, thereby creating that distance, in the sense you suggest, then they will take heat from me.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Grumman: Kamillion asks: ''Don't you guys get tired of arguing about race?''
Ignoring the topic of this thread are you?
''Surely, there are more important things to do.''
Yup, like paying attention to the topic.
Uncle Gru, please enlighten me if there is something I've missed out:
* Africans are identified by lineage, not colour. * There are non-Africans who are black and therefore look more like the "stereotypical African" than some Africans... *It is bullshit to try to split Africans into sub-races. * Africans are far far more diverse than any other group or "race" out there.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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''Why are Mexicans called 'brown' and not black??''
I suppose if there were any Mexicans on this site who said they were brown and not black, thereby creating that distance, in the sense you suggest, then they will take heat from me.
''Uncle Gru, please enlighten me if there is something I've missed out'':
quote:* Africans are identified by lineage, not colour. * There are non-Africans who are black and therefore look more like the "stereotypical African" than some Africans... *It is bullshit to try to split Africans into sub-races. * Africans are far far more diverse than any other group or "race" out there.
And I agree on that. So how do you reconcile the above with what I said, which is: ''I suppose if there were any Mexicans on this site who said they were brown and not black, thereby creating that distance, in the sense you suggest, then they will take heat from me.''
MindoverMatter718 I clicked on your link and but didn't see anything of interest but some juvenile topics so that turned me off in a hurry. Now, if that site is what I think it is from watching a television program the other day for a few minutes about some brown thugs in Tennessee then count me out. Having said that you will be advised my issue isn't what Kamillion posted, my issue is what I've said all along and that is some people want to distance themselves from their very dark ancestry. I don't. Some here do.
Having said that can one talk and say anything about whom they choose to identify with, or what shade they don't see themselves as, i.e. ''I'm brown not black'', and can keep running all day with it. Of course they can do it. Will that prevent me from being critical of them, no it won't because once they commit to that then they are running from their blackness plain and simple. The white boys and girls really got a hold on them.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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^But when are Mexicans even considered black in the AA community?
I think it's more of an identity with a Native American background, since African Americans identify as black, and Euro-Americans as white.
Mexicans don't see themselves as black like AA'S or white like EA'S, and AA's do not see Mexicans as being black either and EA's same thing.
This is most likely where the brown notion comes from, since they're not white or black in American society, hence they choose brown as an identity with their (Mexican) Native American ancestry.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Grumman: Kamillion says:
''Uncle Gru, please enlighten me if there is something I've missed out'':
quote:* Africans are identified by lineage, not colour. * There are non-Africans who are black and therefore look more like the "stereotypical African" than some Africans... *It is bullshit to try to split Africans into sub-races. * Africans are far far more diverse than any other group or "race" out there.
And I agree on that. So how do you reconcile the above with what I said, which is: ''I suppose if there were any Mexicans on this site who said they were brown and not black, thereby creating that distance, in the sense you suggest, then they will take heat from me.''
MindoverMatter718 I clicked on your link and but didn't see anything of interest but some juvenile topics so that turned me off in a hurry. Now, if that site is what I think it is from watching a television program the other day for a few minutes about some brown thugs in Tennessee then count me out. Having said that you will be advised my issue isn't what Kamillion posted, my issue is what I've said all along and that is some people want to distance themselves from their very dark ancestry. I don't. Some here do.
Having said that can one talk and say anything about whom they choose to identify with, or what shade they don't see themselves as, i.e. ''I'm brown not black'', and can keep running all day with it. Of course they can do it. Will that prevent me from being critical of them, no it won't because once they commit to that then they are running from their blackness plain and simple. The white boys and girls really got a hold on them.
Perhaps, you're missing out the FACT that learned habits are not broken overnight. Especially if it's a habit *EVERYONE* around you is into (i.e. the colour identification thing).
It takes time and constant exposure to truth to get over lies. Ya dig.
Imagine a world where all people under 5 feet tall were programmed to believe they were one race and anyone above that height (some arbitrary value based on who's in charge, just like the "white" colour thing) was another race. How easy do you think it would be to remove this programming??? Much more difficult than removing "colour racism" if you ask me. Yet, in the world we live in today there is barely any "heightism". You will suffer from racism, sexism and agism before you suffer from heightism, that's for sure.
Posts: 3423 | From: the jungle - when y'all stop playing games, call me. | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Marc Washington: [Marc writes] You’d agree that the University of Pennsylvania, one of the Ivy League schools, is full of scholars, right?
In their Museum Library, put in the word “race” and you get over 10,000 entries.
Now. You are tell us that ALL SCHOLARS AGREE THAT THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ‘RACE’’ and the Museum Library has over 10,000 books and stuff by scholars on race.
You are saying these 10,000 sources don’t exist (as ALL scholars agree there is no such thing as race)?
You are certainly right that some scholars still hold to a race model, Risch and Pritchard for example. They are increasingly a minority though based on American Assoc Physical Anthro poll results posted on ES in prior threads. The brown vs black thing though may be moot with the ancient Egyptians who had both shades and mingled freely, without needing any race mix to explain why. In addition, dictionary definitions of a "black" person or even "Negro" specifically includes people with brown skin.
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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^''But when are Mexicans even considered black in the AA community?''
I'm not talking about whether anyone classifies Mexicans as black. I'm saying if very recent parentage is a very dark skinned African and the other white and the offspring denies the black. That's all I'm saying.
Kamillion says:
''Especially if it's a habit *EVERYONE* around you is into (i.e. the colour identification thing).''
Are you talking about white people in general or several people of color? If you are talking about some white people then how is it you seemingly can suggest a proposal, or a remedy, for some ''habits'' as you call it, ''that are not broken overnight'', and probably can be at some point in time, according to you? And whomever you may be talking about as it regards this habit, that is constantly talking about color, don't you think it may be their truth in spite of what you imply as their non-exposure to the truth.
''It takes time and constant exposure to truth to get over lies.''
What 'truth' are you referring to? Is this your truth? If it is a truth and you can readily see it, then why can't others?
''Imagine a world where all people under 5 feet tall were programmed to believe they were one race and anyone above that height (some arbitrary value based on who's in charge, just like the "white" colour thing) was another race. How easy do you think it would be to remove this programming???''
I can't imagine this scenario because I have no recollection of anyone getting murdered and hung because of height, just phenotype. Even though height is relative in order for this to work there will have to be another color involved to aggravate the height.
Further, do you honestly think you can relieve some white people of their arbitrary value based on who's in charge, just like the "white" colour thing?
''Yet, in the world we live in today there is barely any "heightism".
See.
Posts: 2118 | From: midwest, USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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There is a lot of "heightism" out there. Taller women for example- say 5'7 and above, will often refuse to date or marry shorter men, and being short is often viewed more negatively in some polls, according to various socio-medical researchers. See below.
Pediatric endocrinology: mechanisms, manifestations, and management By Ora Hirsch Pescovitz, Erica A. Eugster
All of that though is trivial compared to the damage or hate or outright genocide wrought by differences based on race or perceived race.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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^ The race problem is more sickeneing than I thought. Just imagine...someone more related to you by lineage/blood than even your most loved ones and whenever you look at him, all you see is an incarnation of people who have persecuted you for years...yet he treats you better than those who "look like you" and ignores/forgives your mistakes and still you can't break the ice...cuz the eyez are blue. What a terrible illness this colour thing Posts: 1819 | From: odesco baba | Registered: Feb 2005
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But culture and history takes a back seat everytime..trolls usually steer the conversation into something about race...people who should know better responed I myself included...or they will start a race-bait thread that most folk feel they have to respond. Some thread cannot avoid the race issue if you start talking about population origins. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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