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Author Topic: Debt, credit, and the Zanzibari slave trade
markellion
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David Livingstone

http://books.google.com/books?id=m-8MAAAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PA556&dq=#v=onepage&q=&f=false

quote:
Dr. Livingstone to Earl Granville Nov. 11, 1871.

MY LORD :—In my letter dated Bambarre, November, 1870, now enclosed, I stated my grave suspicions that a packet of about forty letters—dispatches, copies of all the astronomical observations from the coast onwards, and ketch maps on tracing paper, intended to convey a clear idea of all the discoveries up to the time of arrival at Ujiji—would be destroyed. It was delivered to the agent hero of the Governor of Unyanyembe, and I paid him in full all he demanded to transmit it to Syde bin Salem Buraschid, the so-called Governor, who is merely a trade agent of certain Banians of Zanzibar, and a person who is reputed dishonest by all. As an agent, he pilfers from his employers, be they Banians or Arabs; as a Governor, expected to exercise the office of a magistrate, he dispenses justice to him who pays most; and as the subject of a Sultan, who entrusted him because he had no power on the mainland to supersede him, he robs his superior shamelessly. No Arab or native ever utters a good word for him, but all detest him for his injustice.

The following narrative requires it to be known that his brother, Ali bin Salem Buraschid, is equally notorious for unblushing dishonesty. All Arabs and Europeans who have had dealings with either, speak in unmeasured terms of their fraud and duplicity. The brothers are employed in trade, chiefly by Ludha Damji, the richest Banian in Zanzibar.

It is well known that the slave trade in this country is carried on almost entirely with his money and that of other Banian British subjects. The Banians advance the goods required, and the Arabs proceed inland as their agents, perform the trading, or rather murdering, and when slaves and ivory are brought to the coast the Arabs sell the slaves. The Banians pocket the price, and adroitly let the odium rest on their agents. As a rule no traveling Arab has money sufficient to undertake an inland journey. Those who have become rich imitate the Banians, and send their indigent countrymen and slaves to trade for them. The Banians could scarcely carry on their system of trade were they not in possession of the custom-house, and had power to seize all the goods that pass through it to pay themselves for debts. The so-called Governors are appointed on their recommendation, and become mere trade agents. When the Arabs in the interior are assaulted by the natives they never unite under a Governor as a leader, for they know that defending them or concerting means for their safety is no part of his duty.

The Arabs are nearly all in debt to the Banians, and the Banian slaves are employed in ferreting out every trade transaction of the debtors, and when watched by Governor's slaves and custom-house officers it is scarcely possible for even this cunning, deceitful race to escape being fleeced. To avoid this, many surrender all their ivory to their Banian creditors, and are allowed to keep or sell the slaves as their share of the profits. It will readily be perceived, that the prospect of in any way coming under the power of Banian British subjects at Zanzibar is very far from reassuring.


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markellion
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"As the Arabs have not the wealth to carry on the slave trade to any extent"

"Frere's crusade"

http://books.google.com/books?id=YAIZAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA207&dq=#v=onepage&q=&f=false

quote:

But the British Government can easily make the Bombay authorities execute the laws against the slave-traders, whose headquarters are in their dominions. If the Banians, who are subjects of the queen, find that they will be punished for felony for direct or indirect participation in this traffic, they will use their capital in some less dangerous business. As the Arabs have not the wealth to carry on the slave trade to any extent, the British cruisers will be able to put a stop to it, even if they are not aided by the native rulers whose subjects are concerned in it. The Shah of Persia, however, has already expressed his intention to cooperate with Great Britain in this matter, and has issued two firmans peremptorily forbidding the importation of negroes by sea into his dominions, besides giving permission to British ships-of war to search all Persian vessels except those belonging to the government. The Queen of Madagascar, whose dominions have been a seat of the traffic in slaves, now binds herself to do every thing in her power to suppress it.


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markellion
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I would think something like this would have a ton of interest from people.
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markellion
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If your not going to study the African slave trade then shut up about "white supremacy". What you have to say is irrelevant, imaginary and stupid

In the name of "Afrocentrism" you simply adopt racist colonial ideas and complain about the 'evil white man' while remaining oblivious to the damage that colonialism has brought

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Brada-Anansi
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Calm down Markellon let folks absorb the info... before commenting. I for one knew about the Banian fincincers...afrter centuries of high volume trade between the Swahili city states India and persia and Arabia they became acive as Bankers on the coast not much different from European trading houses that was set to replace them. It was from this epoch that Indians became the business elites on the coast of Africa after the Europeans...the Mess that happened in Uganda and Zanzibar was an out growth of that.
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markellion
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Do you think this is connected with the British East India Company? The British earlier were also supporting the slave trade on the opposite coast. The trade shifted to the Eastern Coast because of abolition. However the Swahili Coast was under a great deal of influence from Brittan

How did the Banians get all this power? Livingston on the first post wrote "The Banians could scarcely carry on their system of trade were they not in possession of the custom-house, and had power to seize all the goods that pass through it to pay themselves for debts. The so-called Governors are appointed on their recommendation, and become mere trade agents. "

Concerning the opposite Coast (1850)

Dahomey and the Dahomans by Friedrich Forbes Volume 1

http://books.google.com/books?id=CKNEAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA139#v=onepage&q=&f=false

quote:
These wars are directly and instrumentally the acts of the slave-merchants of Whydah and its neighbouring parts; but have they no higher parties on whom to lay the blame of their actions? are these, the agents of larger houses, the instruments in the hands of parties who have other means of disposing of their goods, to bear the whole blame? Truth is strange but a truth it is, that the slave trade is carried on in Dahomey and the neighbouring kingdoms with British merchandize, and, at Porto Novo, the residence of the monarch of slave dealers, by British shipping direct. I do not mean to say that if British goods were not obtainable, the traffic would cease to exist; but the taste for British goods runs high, and if these could not be purchased with slaves, palm-oil would be manufactured to obtain them.
"Dahomey and the Dahomans" By Fredrick Forbes Vol 2

http://books.google.com/books?id=X9wE0c6eo_0C&pg=PA59#v=onepage&q=&f=true

quote:
The amazons now advanced in the same order, and having saluted the king he joined them, and again performed a war dance. They also sang in praise of the liberality of the slave-dealer, who gave them muskets and powder to make war upon innocent neighbors; to enrich himself by supplying the market with slaves. These are the evils to uproot: and yet this very man is directly trading with, and receives these muskets and this powder from, British agents in British shipping.
Only have the abstract for this it looks interesting

"The Myth of the Sultans in the Western Indian Ocean during the Nineteenth Century: A New Hypothesis" by Nicolini, Beatrice

African and Asian Studies, Volume 8, Number 3, 2009 , pp. 239-267(29)

quote:

Abstract

The power of the Al Bu Sa'id Sultans of Oman was widely known as based on delicate balances of forces (and ethnic-social groups), deeply different among them. In fact, the elements that composed the nineteenth century Omani leadership were, and had always been, generally 'divided' amongst three different ethnic groups: the Baluch, the Asian merchant communities and the African regional leaders (Mwiny Mkuu). Within this framework, the role played by European Powers, particularly by the Treaties signed between the Sultans of Oman and the East India Company for abolishing slavery, and by the arms trade was crucial for the development of the Gulf and the Western Indian Ocean international networks They highly contributed to the gradual 'shifting' of the Omanis from the slave trade to clove and spice cultivation – the major economic source of Zanzibar Island – along the coastal area of Sub-Saharan East Africa. The role played by the Omani Sultans – the myth – within the western traditional historiography, which often described them as firmly controlling both the Arabian and African littorals and the major trading ports of the Western Indian Ocean during the nineteenth century, will be reexamined in this paper, taking into account recent research studies and international debates in the topic. The new hypothesis consists of a different perception of the concepts of power and control (political and territorial) of the Western Indian Ocean littorals by the most famous of the Sultans of Oman during the nineteenth century: Saiyid Sa'id bin Sultan Al Bu Sa'id. [ABSTRACT FROM AUTHOR]


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Brada-Anansi
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Markellon
quote:

Do you think this is connected with the British East India Company? The British earlier were also supporting the slave trade on the opposite coast

Well follow the money who gained and who lost out..remember that almost immediately following the reasons for (colonization at aleast officially )was for the destruction of slavery and saving the Africans from themselves..of-course private companies could take part of the "developement as long as the British government get part of the cut. Now did they in fact teamed up with the Banians and Swahili merchants for their operations? of course they did...Tippu Tib..faciliated the explorations of inner Africa by the British. The British then give rights and privilages to Swahali merchants now called "Arabs" as opposed to their cousins who follow a more traditonal lifestyle in the hinterland..the Banians continue trading and finiancing and saw themselves as a privilaged class. So at the time of in independance those who were being squeezed at the bottom namely non Muslem Swahili was not in the mood to go back to the same ol same ol hence the blood bath..and revenge humilation where the "Arabs"and the Indians had to give up their Daughters for the pleasure, of any memeber of the new ruling hunta who wanted them.
Tippu Tib the "Arab"
His area of operation
 -
 -
The Sultan of Zanzibar Ali Hamoud
 -
His area of operations
 -

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markellion
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quote:
Well follow the money who gained and who lost out.
From Frere's crusade:

"As the Arabs have not the wealth to carry on the slave trade to any extent"

The "Arabs" were actually forced into it because of debt, but look at the supreme influence of the Banian financiers, they were British subjects! Forbes pointed out the slave trade on the western Coast was still being carried out with British merchandise in 1850. Forbes also believed the wars were the fault of the slave merchants. Since goods were in demand from the African rulers Europeans could profit from selling guns, textiles ect.

Livingston pointed out the importance of goods. Where did the Banians, who were British subject, get the goods that the "Arabs" themselves didn't even have the wealth to attain? How did they get the power and control of the custom house if not for the British

"The Banians advance the goods required, and the Arabs proceed inland as their agents, perform the trading, or rather murdering"

John Newton supports the view of an economic maniuplation with the slave trade

http://books.google.com/books?id=OjI3AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA245#v=onepage&q=&f=false

quote:
I verily believe, that the far greater part of the wars, in Africa, would cease, if the Europeans would cease to tempt them, by offering goods for slaves.

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markellion
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Concerning "Arabization"

"EASTERN AFRICA AND THE INDIAN OCEAN TO 1800: REVIEWING RELATIONS IN HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE" by Pouwels, Randall L.

quote:
As far as actual Arabization of the coast goes, evidence presented below suggests it began after the sixteenth century and reached its zenith in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.[108] The subtleties of this gradual shift are apparent in how the concept of a "civilized" person gradually altered. Until the nineteenth century, notions of the civilized person (mungwana) centered on the ideal of the free, cultured, indigenous townsperson who was thoroughly schooled in local language, tradition, and forms of Islam. There is little in the evidence to suggest there existed any specific association between local notions about what this meant and being or living "like an Arab" (ustaarabu), an idea that characterized nineteenth-century life.[109]
"Portuguese Conceptual Categories and the "Other" Encounter on the Swahili Coast." by Prestholdt, Jeremy

quote:
Notes:

10. Mbuia-João (1990) suggests that Portuguese knowledge of Islam was so limited that they assumed that there were no differences between Muslims of disparate world regions. He maintains that the Portuguese saw no distinction between the ‘Moors’ of Morocco and those of East Africa. I argue, conversely, that while the Portuguese used the term “mouro” indiscriminately, they did make distinctions between different peoples of the Islamic world. In terms of language, Manuel de Faria e Sousa noted that Arabic, for example, was not widely spoken between Kirimba and Sofala: “the language of those people cannot be harsh, being mostly compounded of the soft letters 1 and m” (Theal, 1898(1):22). The Portuguese generally described Arabic dialects as “harsh,” while Swahili, or the “language of the coast of Melinde,” was described as “soft”. M. de Figueroa described Swahili as “clearer than Arabic” (Figueroa, 1967:62). By the seventeenth century, Portuguese accounts made strong distinctions between ‘mouros da costa’ (Swahili) and 'mouros da Arabia’ (Omanis or Yemenis). See, for example, “Carta de Março de 1622”(Livros dos Monções: Liv. 16, fol. 411), Leaé (c. 1696), and n.a., Relação da perda e restauração de Mombaça (c.1698). Portuguese narrators invariably described ‘mouros da Arabia’ in scathing terms, especially after the Portuguese loss of Muscat, while mouros da costa’ were treated in a more even-handed fashion.

"The Uganda protectorate"

http://books.google.com/books?id=vyAUAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA890#v=onepage&q=&f=false

quote:
The Bantu languages, in fact, are rather more closely related one to the other—even in their extremest forms—than are the Aryan languages. This is so much the case that a native of Zanzibar can very soon make himself understood on the Congo, while a man of the Cameroons would not be long before he grasped the vocabulary of the Zulu. This interesting fact must play a certain part in the political development of Africa south of the fifth degree of north latitude. The rapidity with which the Kiswahili tongue of Zanzibar—a very convenient, simple, and expressive form of Bantu speech— has spread far and wide over East Central Africa, and has even gained a footing on the Congo, hints at the possibility of the Bantu Negroes at some future time adopting a universal Bantu language for inter-communication.

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markellion
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The British used "abolition" as a way to gain more control over the slave trade and they made it illegal in order to raise prices. For all slaves purchased illegally Great Britan would profit as they financed the trade via the Banians. Slave trading continued under colonial rule for example the Belgian Congo

This trade was not partially or even mainly the fault of the British and the slave trading nations of Europe, it was entirely their fault!

"Zanzibar: Pemba - Mafia" By Chris McIntyre, Susan Shand

http://books.google.com/books?id=QE4zoBX_pM4C&pg=PA13&dq=#v=onepage&q=&f=false

quote:

Ships from the British navy were employed to help enforce the treaty by capturing any dhows carrying slaves. When a dhow was captured, it was set on fire and the slaves were taken to Aden, India, or a free-slave community on the mainland coast, such as English Point in Mombasa. However, with only four ships to patrol a huge area of sea, the British navy found it hard to enforce the treaty, so the slave dhows continued to sail. Ships from France, Germany, Spain, Portugal and America also continued to carry slaves, as there were still huge profits to be made. And on the mainland slave traders continued to push further into the interior

"The impact of the slave trade on Africa" by Elikia M’bokolo

http://mondediplo.com/1998/04/02africa

quote:
Emergent colonialism and imperialism cloaked themselves in humanitarian garb and invoked "racial superiority" and the "White Man’s burden". The former slave-trading states now spoke only of liberating Africa from "Arab" slavers and the black potentates who were also engaged in slavery.

However, once the colonial powers had carved up the continent between them, they took great care not to abolish the slavery structures they had found in place. Any change would have to be gradual, they argued, and "native" customs had to be respected. Slavery thus persisted within the colonial system, as we can see from the League of Nations surveys conducted between the two world wars (7). Worse still, in order to drive the economic machine, they created a new type of slavery in the form of forced labour. "Whatever it is called, nothing can disguise the fact that forced labour is de facto and de jure simply the reintroduction and promotion of slavery (8)." Here again, to look no further than the French example, the impulse for freedom came from Africa. It was due to the efforts of the African deputies, led by Félix Houphouët-Boigny and Léopold Sédar Senghor, that forced labour was at last abolished in 1946.


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markellion
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If there is a flaw in my thought process here please tell me.
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Brada-Anansi
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No not flaw but..remember this do-not under estimate..the cause why the British change tact in the first place...those uprisings and revolutions in the America's was spreading like wild-fire plus agitation from liberals..who thought the whole thing was a blight on their sociaty..so when things became politically socially and military untenable...you pretend to switch sides...your populous loves you for taking the moral high-ground...you then have the excuse to go anywhere and take over other peoples lands with your new moral high ground...and popular support in the form of jobs for missionaries(Christians) the natives should pay for their delivery from...slavery and attainment of civilization...through cheap labour or even forced labour..not called slavery anymore btw..but a labour tax which touched off the final Zulu war. plus you now have un-limited access to all this new-stuff above and below ground..a market that is letterally cornered.It was all win win..no down side...you could even dump your excess hungry and poor in new lands to start anew and this time with a clear purpose...civilizing the locals. thats where the distortions of there was no civilizations in Africa comes from...because if the Africans had civilization then what's your purpose for being there?..mere economic gain was sooo 18th century...remember we have a new moral high ground...it's called the White-mans burden.
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Brada-Anansi
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But I am more interested in the response from the African leadership..the fathers duked it out..fought bravely died or when into exile..but the sons went to the missions learned a Euro-language became lawyers and began agitiation though ligitgation.some in their later years would pick the gun again..and returned to the bush or the desert.But we can expand on that later.
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markellion
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bump
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markellion
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Since the Arabs did not have the wealth to carry on the slave trade we are forced to come to the same conclusion as S.A. Shaban that the Zanj rebellion was not a slave rebellion. People are mislead because of mistranslations of Arabic texts

If "blacks" are persecuted against in Iraq today it is because of British colonialism

M. A. Shaban on the Zanj revolt:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Wkqlp-lHllcC&pg=PA101#v=onepage&q=&f=false
quote:

All the talk about slaves rising against the wretched conditions of work in the salt marshes of Basra is a figment of the imagination and has no support in the sources.....The vast majority of the rebels were Arabs of the Persian Gulf supported by free East Africans who had made their homes in the region.....

(continued page 102)...If more proof is needed that it was not a slave revolt, it is to be found in the fact that it had a highly organized army and navy which vigorously resisted the whole weight of the central government for almost fifteen years. Moreover, it must have had huge resources that allowed it to build no less than six impregnable towns in which there were arsenals for the manufacture of weapons and battleships. These towns also had in their mammoth markets prodigious wealth which was more than the salt marshes could conceivably produce. Even all the booty from Basra and the whole region could not account for such enormous wealth. Significantly the revolt had the backing of a certain group of merchants who preserved with their support until the very end. Tabari makes it very clear that the strength of the rebels was dependent on the support of these merchants.


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markellion
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Perry Noble:

http://books.google.com/books?id=pSMbAAAAYAAJ&dq=perry%20noble&pg=PA184#v=onepage&q=&f=false

quote:
During our century Muslim or pagan powers arose in Ashanti, Dahome, Kazembe, Lunda, Muata=Yanvo, Sahara, Senegambia, Sudan, Tabililand, Uganda, Upper Zambezia, Zanguebar and Zululand. These aided the development of Africa, influenced its relations with Europe and participated in preparing it for missions. Of the thirteen native states only three were not Negro powers, only four were not pagan. These (omitting the Mahdists) were the Arabs of Senusi and from Zanzibar and the Fulah of Senegambia and West Sudan. The Fulah and the Zanzibari have become quite Nigritic, and the ruling native race of Central and East Sudan belongs to the Negro. The black man instead of the Arab and the Berber has enabled Europe, seconded by America, to open Africa*....


Zanguebar until 1884 remained a self=governing sultanate, its sovereign ruling in 1861 from Mukhdisho to Cape Delgado and his influence extending to Lake Tanganika, five hundred miles west. British influence was supreme, British subjects among Zanzibari slave=dealers


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markellion
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People really should pay attention to this information because it shows how these devastations happened, it was through economic manipulation

Perry Noble again:

http://books.google.com/books?id=pSMbAAAAYAAJ&dq=perry%20noble&pg=PA181#v=onepage&q=&f=false

quote:
Slavery and the trade, though stones of offense, were made stepping=stones for missions. They formed the chief source of Europe's interest in Africa. They led the united states of Europe to their first joint action since the crusades in relation to Africa. The Vienna congress of 1815 declared the slave=trade repugnant to humanity and abolition most desirable. Since 1792 the majority of the powers, the United States of America first, had followed Denmark in forbidding the trade to their subjects, and in 1817 slavers were declared pirates. Seventy years later (1884=85) anxiety to promote the welfare of the Negro was announced as one of the motives for the Berlin conference. Europe and America undertook to employ every means to end the inland slave= trade. Muhammadan states for the first time in history participated with Christian powers in an enterprise of philanthropy. Their presence recalls the homely rhyme that "when the devil was sick, the devil a monk would be", for the sincere endeavors of Egyptian and Zanzibari rulers of Islamry were inspired by European influences. Though Christendom succeeded between 1817 and 1877 in ending the export of slaves to America and in hampering that to the orient, the inland traffic grew worse. From 1875 to 1890 Africa lost sometimes five hundred thousand, sometimes one million inhabitants annually. In 1890 America, Europe, Persia and Zanzibar "in the name of God" confessed that the European powers were morally accountable for the devastation, and resolved at Brussels to secure peace for Africa, to complete such slight results as they had already obtained since 1885 and to guarantee the extermination of the traffic. Belgium has since accomplished something, Britain a little, the others less toward the redemption of their pledges for their respective realms.

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markellion
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I should really do some more reading on this, this is interesting. Remember John Newton said the wars in Africa were instigated by a desire to sell the prisoners to Europeans for goods.

John Newton

http://books.google.com/books?id=OjI3AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA245#v=onepage&q=&f=false

quote:

I verily believe, that the far greater part of the wars, in Africa, would cease, if the Europeans would cease to tempt them, by offering goods for slaves. And though they do not bring legions into the field, their wars are bloody. I believe, the captives reserved for sale are fewer than the slain.

I have not sufficient data to warrant calculation but, I suppose, not less than one hundred thousand slaves are exported, annually, from all parts of Africa, and that more than one-half of these are exported in English bottoms.

If but an equal number are killed in war, and if many of these wars are kindled by the incentive of selling their prisoners ; what an annual accumulation of blood must there be, crying against the nations of Europe concerned in this trade, and particularly against our own!

Bellow is from a writer on the East African slave trade

"It is clear as the sun at noonday that all this is the direct fruit of the employment of British capital in the felonious trade"

East African slave trade 1871

http://books.google.com/books?id=A23WAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA284&dq=t#v=onepage&q=&f=false
quote:

In the first place, we are nationally concerned in this trade. Dr. Livingstone—no slight authority upon the matter—asserts positively that the trade is absolutely maintained by the capital of our East Indian subjects. In one of his letters, just published by the Foreign Office, Livingstone says:—
' The subject to which I beg to draw your attention, is the part which the Banians of Zanzibar, who are protected British subjects, play in carrying on the slave-trade in Central Africa. The Banian British subjects have long been, and are now, the chief propagators of the Zanzibar slave-trade; their money, and often their muskets, gunpowder, balls, flints, beads, brass-wire, and calico, are annually advanced to the Arabs, at enormous interest, for the murderous work of slavery, of the nature of which every Banian is fully aware. Having mixed much with the Arabs in the interior, I soon learned the whole system that is called " Cutchce," or Banian trading, is simply marauding and murdering by the Arabs, at the instigation and by the aid of our Indian fellowsubjects. The canny Indians secure nearly all the profits of the caravans they send inland, and very adroitly let the odium of slavery rest on their Arab agents. As a rule, very few Arabs could proceed on a trading expedition unless supplied by the Banians with arms, ammunition, and goods. ... It strikes me that it is well I have been brought face to face with the Banian system, that inflicts enormous evils on Central Africa. Gentlemen in India who see only the wealth brought to Bombay and Cutch, and know that the religion of the Banians does not allow them to harm a fly, very naturally conclude that all Cutchees may safely be intrusted with the possession of slaves, but I have been forced to see that those who shrink from killing a flea or a mosquito are virtually the worst cannibals in all Africa. The Manyema cannibals, amongst whom I spent nearly two years, are innocents compared with our protected Banian fellow-subjects. By their Arab agents, they compass the destruction of more human lives in one year than the Manyema do for their fleshpots in ten; and could the Indian gentlemen who oppose the anti-slavetrade policy of the Foreign Office but witness the horrid deeds done by the Banian agents they would be foremost in decreeing that every Cutchee found guilty of direct slavery should forthwith be shipped back to India, if not to the Andaman Islands.'—Livingstorie't despatches.


http://books.google.com/books?id=A23WAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA294&dq=t#v=onepage&q=&f=false

(bellow is not written by Livingston)

But dangerous as it is for a British subject to connect himself in any way directly with the traffic in slaves, yet, to bring home the indirect traffic criminally to them is, whilst the trade is legal at all, well nigh impossible. The Consul at Zanzibar may easily prove that a Banian house there, itself a branch of another great house at Bombay, and both of them of the very highest commercial character, fitted out a caravan for a most respectable Arab merchant, with the cloths of Hamburg, or the beads and wire of England and America, to go into the interior and trade for ivory. Evil rumours may soon abound as to the conduct of the caravan ; that its conductors are stirring up wars amongst the inland tribes and practising the slave-trade with its most aggravated enormities; but the Consul is utterly powerless as to interfering with it. After two years, perhaps, the Arab re-appears; slaves in numbers, as well as ivory, arrive ; who are sold for the mainland, whilst some go to Zanzibar, some to Arabia. It is clear as the sun at noonday that all this is the direct fruit of the employment of British capital in the felonious trade; but how can we bring home the guilty complicity ? How can we obtain evidence where the whole feeling of the pbee is against any inquiry ?
Captain Eraser's own letter to the Select Committee of the House of Commons is a curious instance of the universality of this feeling amongst residents at Zanzibar. In the evidence given before the Committee, the Rev. Horace Waller had deposed that 'the fact of Captain Fraser employing slaves led to everlasting murmuring on the part of the natives.' ' One morning they would see us burning the dhows which were engaged in the slave trade, and the next morning they would see an Englishman working factories and plantations with the slaves safely landed. . . . . The poor slaves were hired in gangs from their Arab masters… It was encouraging the slave-trade.'


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markellion
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I really hope people become more aware of this. This atrocity couldn't have happened without British support

This also shows that racism in Indian society and the Muslim world in general are linked with European colonial powers, especially Brittan

What Forbes says bellow applies exactly to the Banians in East Africa. Dear lord I hope people start understanding this. Concerning the opposite Coast (1850)

Dahomey and the Dahomans by Friedrich Forbes Volume 1

http://books.google.com/books?id=CKNEAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA139#v=onepage&q=&f=false

quote:
These wars are directly and instrumentally the acts of the slave-merchants of Whydah and its neighbouring parts; but have they no higher parties on whom to lay the blame of their actions? are these, the agents of larger houses, the instruments in the hands of parties who have other means of disposing of their goods, to bear the whole blame? Truth is strange but a truth it is, that the slave trade is carried on in Dahomey and the neighbouring kingdoms with British merchandize, and, at Porto Novo, the residence of the monarch of slave dealers, by British shipping direct. I do not mean to say that if British goods were not obtainable, the traffic would cease to exist; but the taste for British goods runs high, and if these could not be purchased with slaves, palm-oil would be manufactured to obtain them.
"Dahomey and the Dahomans" By Fredrick Forbes Vol 2

http://books.google.com/books?id=X9wE0c6eo_0C&pg=PA59#v=onepage&q=&f=true

quote:
The amazons now advanced in the same order, and having saluted the king he joined them, and again performed a war dance. They also sang in praise of the liberality of the slave-dealer, who gave them muskets and powder to make war upon innocent neighbors; to enrich himself by supplying the market with slaves. These are the evils to uproot: and yet this very man is directly trading with, and receives these muskets and this powder from, British agents in British shipping.

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markellion
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About the Banian merchants, I think the idea that they could gain that much power on the African coast by themselves makes Africans look weak and inferior. It was not Indian or Arab exploitation it was British exploitation. It is less a disgrace that Brittan did it because Brittan was the greatest empire in the world

Remember the slave trade was carried out with British capital not Arab or Indian capital. The shipment of these goods were absolutely essential to the slave trade

"The British East India Company — the Company that Owned a Nation (or Two)"

http://www.victorianweb.org/history/empire/india/eic.html

quote:

The company's encounters with foreign competitors eventually required it to assemble its own military and administrative departments, thereby becoming an imperial power in its own right, though the British government began to reign it in by the late eighteenth century. Before Parliament created a government-controlled policy-making body with the Regulating Act of 1773 and the India Act eleven years later, shareholders' meetings made decisions about Britain's de facto colonies in the East. The British government took away the Company's monopoly in 1813, and after 1834 it worked as the government's agency until the 1857 India Mutiny when the Colonial Office took full control. The East India Company went out of existence in 1873.

During its heyday, the East India Company not only established trade through Asia and the Middle East but also effectively became of the ruler of territories vastly larger than the United Kingdrom itself. In addition, it also created, rather than conquered, colonies.
Singapore, for example, was an island with very few Malay inhabitants in 1819 when Sir Stamford Raffles purchased it for the Company from their ruler, the Sultan of Johor, and created what eventually became one of the world's greatest trans-shipment ports.


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argyle104
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markellion,


Its obvious that you have a severe mental problem. I think its time you sought some help.

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markellion
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Bump
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markellion
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Robert Norris (1791) wrote this book in defense of the slave trade. I should have noted earlier that the British were already selling slaves to other European nations. The British success in the slave trade had allot to do with the goods they produced

"to the opulence of the manufacturers, which enables them to extend a credit to the former, beyond what can be had in any other country"

These undermined native African industries. As Norris pointed out no other nation had the capacity to carry out the slave trade like Brittan did. The fact that Brittan was importing a surplus while other nations purchased this surplus suggests that these other nations did not have the capacity to carry on the slave trade by themselves to a high enough extent to meet their demands. On the other hand Brittan could carry on the slave trade to such an extent as to exceed their demand for slaves. Later on by moving the focus of the slave trade to East Africa the British could gain even more control over it

"on more reasonable terms than their neighbours; and a large surplus is left, which is disposed of to the French and Spaniards for specie, and other valuable commodities."

http://docsouth.unc.edu/neh/norris/norris.html

quote:

page 162

Among the adventurers in this trade, the British possess, at present, the greatest share. It was during the government of the commonwealth, that Negroes were carried, in any numbers, to the British West Indies, and then, chiefly to Barbadoes: a few indeed were brought to Virginia, by a Dutch ship, as early as 1620;but it was the Royal African Company, that first carried on, from England, a vigorous commerce to Africa, during the reign of Charles II. We may form an opinion of the magnitude of it, in its most flourishing state, prior to the revolution in 1688, by considering that the company employed thirty ships annually, which delivered about five thousand Negroes in the West Indies. The increase of it to its present state, may be attributed to the enterprizing spirit of the merchants; to the superior address of those employed in the executive part of it; to the opulence of the manufacturers, which enables them to extend a credit to the former, beyond what can be had in any other country; and to the annual grants of parliament, for the maintenance of several forts, and factories in Africa. From these concurring circumstances, the British

Page 163
planters are supplied with Negroes, on more reasonable terms than their neighbours; and a large surplus is left, which is disposed of to the French and Spaniards for specie, and other valuable commodities.


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markellion
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I really hope people begin to realize that the slave trade was due to economic manipulation

"and furnish to every man living on that continent motives for committing, under the name and pretext of commerce, acts of perpetual violence and perfidy"

William Pitt, The Younger. 1759-1806.

352. From His Speech On The Abolition Op The Slave-trade . April 2, 1792.

http://books.google.com/books?id=_SoQAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA452&dq=#v=onepage&q=&f=false

quote:
Do you think nothing of the ruin and the miseries in which so many other individuals, still remaining in Africa, are involved, in consequence of carrying off so many myriads of people? Do you think nothing of their families which are left behind of the connections which are broken? of the friendships, attachments, and relationships that are burst asunder! Do you think nothing of the miseries in consequence, that are felt from generation to generation? of the privation of that happiness which might be communicated to them by the introduction of civilization, and of mental and moral improvement? A happiness which you withhold them so long as you permit the slave-trade to continue. What do you know of the internal state of Africa? You have carried on a trade to that quarter of the globe from this civilized and enlightened country. but such a trade, that, instead of diffusing either knowledge or wealth, it has been the check to every laudable pursuit. Instead of any fair interchange of commodities; instead of conveying to them, from this highly favored land, any means of improvement; you carry with you that noxious plant by which everything is withered and blasted; under whose shade nothing that is useful or profitable to Africa will eves flourish or take root. Long as that continent has been known to navigators, the extreme line and boundaries of its coasts is all with which Europe is yet become acquainted; while other countries in the same parallel of latitude, through a happier system of intercourse, have reaped the blessings of a mutually beneficial commerce. But as to the whole interior of that continent you are, by your own principles of commerce, as yet entirely shut out: Africa is known to you only in its skirts. Yet here you are able to infuse a poison that spreads its contagious effects from one end of it to the other, which penetrates to its very center, corrupting every part to which it reaches. You there subvert the whole order of nature; you aggravate every natural barbarity, and furnish to every man living on that continent motives for committing, under the name and pretext of commerce, acts of perpetual violence and perfidy

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markellion
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concerning the paradox of cheap slaves and "As the Arabs have not the wealth to carry on the slave trade to any extent"

My theory is that it was not the quality but the low cost of the merchandise that undermined native industries. The British could offer goods at low prices that would make slaves cheap and increase warfare amongst Africans. Without this merchandise slaves would become more expensive and the slave trade could not be maintained at such a high level

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Bump
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Yonis2
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quote:
Originally posted by markellion:
If your not going to study the African slave trade then shut up about "white supremacy". What you have to say is irrelevant, imaginary and stupid

In the name of "Afrocentrism" you simply adopt racist colonial ideas and complain about the 'evil white man' while remaining oblivious to the damage that colonialism has brought

OMG, i can't beleive this guy is still posting his slave threads.
When exactly are you going to get tired You little swine looking and smelling freak, if you haven't noticed by now-this site is called *Egyptsearch* NOT *Slavesearch*!

If you're that obsessed with slaves then why not do everyone a favour and just go sell your sister to those Maghrebi barbary pirates who by the look of it still seem to crave those Anglo whores they used to slap their dicks on their little freckled pink face just after snatching them with little resistance from the 'mighty' males of anglo-stan countries.

For the sake of your slave obsessed mind be sure to thorougly report her slave journey and log her maghrebi barbary experience before sharing her story here, i'm sure that would be more interesting to read than your tedious little arab vs bantu-slave obsession you clutter this board with, which i'm sure everyone got bored with long time ago.

I can't believe these black/afro-nationalists are letting this guy get away with all the slavewashing threads and his lame attempt to channel the responsibility of slave-trade towards arabs/muslims and away from Europe's notorious racial based chattel slavery.
lol notice how the slave obsessed freak never makes threads of trans-atlantic slave trade it's all about the SE African slaves vs arabs. I see some even commend his transparent efforts, so focking gullible, [Roll Eyes]

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markellion
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My obsession is with Brittan's role in the slave trade
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argyle104
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Yonis wrote:
---------------------------
I can't believe these black/afro-nationalists are letting this guy get away with all the slavewashing threads
---------------------------


Because they believe it. They are weak and dumb. With the exception of Ancient Egypt not being "black", they believe anything whites tell them. No matter how dumb, crazy, non-factual, and lacking of commonsense.

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markellion
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Yes! It is exceedingly clear that the British were behind this slave trade but people are ignoring it

http://books.google.com/books?id=A23WAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA294&dq=t#v=onepage&q=&f=false
quote:

"It is clear as the sun at noonday that all this is the direct fruit of the employment of British capital in the felonious trade"


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markellion
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Bump
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-Just Call Me Jari-
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quote:
Originally posted by Yonis2:
quote:
Originally posted by markellion:
If your not going to study the African slave trade then shut up about "white supremacy". What you have to say is irrelevant, imaginary and stupid

In the name of "Afrocentrism" you simply adopt racist colonial ideas and complain about the 'evil white man' while remaining oblivious to the damage that colonialism has brought

OMG, i can't beleive this guy is still posting his slave threads.
When exactly are you going to get tired You little swine looking and smelling freak, if you haven't noticed by now-this site is called *Egyptsearch* NOT *Slavesearch*!

If you're that obsessed with slaves then why not do everyone a favour and just go sell your sister to those Maghrebi barbary pirates who by the look of it still seem to crave those Anglo whores they used to slap their dicks on their little freckled pink face just after snatching them with little resistance from the 'mighty' males of anglo-stan countries.

For the sake of your slave obsessed mind be sure to thorougly report her slave journey and log her maghrebi barbary experience before sharing her story here, i'm sure that would be more interesting to read than your tedious little arab vs bantu-slave obsession you clutter this board with, which i'm sure everyone got bored with long time ago.

I can't believe these black/afro-nationalists are letting this guy get away with all the slavewashing threads and his lame attempt to channel the responsibility of slave-trade towards arabs/muslims and away from Europe's notorious racial based chattel slavery.
lol notice how the slave obsessed freak never makes threads of trans-atlantic slave trade it's all about the SE African slaves vs arabs. I see some even commend his transparent efforts, so focking gullible, [Roll Eyes]

Damn if your stupid ass would read(Which by the way I know its hard being Somali and all) you would see that Markellion is proving that the Slave Trade even the Arab trade was funded by Europeans(The Brits) and for the sole purpose of building European infastructure. He is pretty much excusing the evidence of Barbaric Arab Slaveryhttp://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/SStephan/islamic_slavery.htm That still exists today...stupid Arab ass kissing roach...learn to read..
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markellion
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Jari-Ankhamun, just so you know that translation of Ibn Khaldun in your article is wrong.

Also the argument in the article you cited about a supposed "conspiracy of silence" seems rather unconvincing. Who is behind this conspiracy, the Arab controlled media?

"Translation and the Colonial Imaginary: Ibn Khaldun Orientalist", by Abdelmajid Hannoum © 2003 Wesleyan University.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/3590803

quote:
The article shows how a portion of the writing of Ibn Khaldûn was translated and transformed in the process in such a way as to become a French narrative with colonial categories specific to the nineteenth century. Using a semiotic approach and analyzing both the French text and its original, the article shows how colonialism introduced what Castoriadis calls an "imaginary" by transforming local knowledge and converting it into colonial knowledge.

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Bob_01
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quote:
Originally posted by argyle104:
Yonis wrote:

I've heard the same being suggested about Magrebians within much of Europe. Free education, while receiving generous welfare and yet failures in those nations.

I think one of the reasons why this thread was ignored has to do with volume. If people like Afronut and Dirk8 stopped making twenty million threads, it'd be easier to see.

Regardless, Arabs were involved in the African slave trade. However they primarily traded European slaves. These slaves were largely women and it explains the high European maternal footprint within much of the Middle East.

On the other hand, the principle slave trades in the African counterpart, were the Europeans. It was how the Europeans were able to compete with the dominant Turks. That is, by expanding within "sub-Saharan" Africa.

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markellion
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bump
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Yonis2
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quote:
Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
quote:
Originally posted by Yonis2:
quote:
Originally posted by markellion:
If your not going to study the African slave trade then shut up about "white supremacy". What you have to say is irrelevant, imaginary and stupid

In the name of "Afrocentrism" you simply adopt racist colonial ideas and complain about the 'evil white man' while remaining oblivious to the damage that colonialism has brought

OMG, i can't beleive this guy is still posting his slave threads.
When exactly are you going to get tired You little swine looking and smelling freak, if you haven't noticed by now-this site is called *Egyptsearch* NOT *Slavesearch*!

If you're that obsessed with slaves then why not do everyone a favour and just go sell your sister to those Maghrebi barbary pirates who by the look of it still seem to crave those Anglo whores they used to slap their dicks on their little freckled pink face just after snatching them with little resistance from the 'mighty' males of anglo-stan countries.

For the sake of your slave obsessed mind be sure to thorougly report her slave journey and log her maghrebi barbary experience before sharing her story here, i'm sure that would be more interesting to read than your tedious little arab vs bantu-slave obsession you clutter this board with, which i'm sure everyone got bored with long time ago.

I can't believe these black/afro-nationalists are letting this guy get away with all the slavewashing threads and his lame attempt to channel the responsibility of slave-trade towards arabs/muslims and away from Europe's notorious racial based chattel slavery.
lol notice how the slave obsessed freak never makes threads of trans-atlantic slave trade it's all about the SE African slaves vs arabs. I see some even commend his transparent efforts, so focking gullible, [Roll Eyes]

Damn if your stupid ass would read(Which by the way I know its hard being Somali and all) you would see that Markellion is proving that the Slave Trade even the Arab trade was funded by Europeans(The Brits) and for the sole purpose of building European infastructure. He is pretty much excusing the evidence of Barbaric Arab Slaveryhttp://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/SStephan/islamic_slavery.htm That still exists today...stupid Arab ass kissing roach...learn to read..
I see the schackles (although invisible these days) are still quite tight around the heels.

Emancipate yourself brother! [Cool]

 -

The nostalgic slave-loving Anglo is *NOT* your friend.

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-Just Call Me Jari-
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quote:
Originally posted by Yonis2:
quote:
Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
quote:
Originally posted by Yonis2:
quote:
Originally posted by markellion:
If your not going to study the African slave trade then shut up about "white supremacy". What you have to say is irrelevant, imaginary and stupid

In the name of "Afrocentrism" you simply adopt racist colonial ideas and complain about the 'evil white man' while remaining oblivious to the damage that colonialism has brought

OMG, i can't beleive this guy is still posting his slave threads.
When exactly are you going to get tired You little swine looking and smelling freak, if you haven't noticed by now-this site is called *Egyptsearch* NOT *Slavesearch*!

If you're that obsessed with slaves then why not do everyone a favour and just go sell your sister to those Maghrebi barbary pirates who by the look of it still seem to crave those Anglo whores they used to slap their dicks on their little freckled pink face just after snatching them with little resistance from the 'mighty' males of anglo-stan countries.

For the sake of your slave obsessed mind be sure to thorougly report her slave journey and log her maghrebi barbary experience before sharing her story here, i'm sure that would be more interesting to read than your tedious little arab vs bantu-slave obsession you clutter this board with, which i'm sure everyone got bored with long time ago.

I can't believe these black/afro-nationalists are letting this guy get away with all the slavewashing threads and his lame attempt to channel the responsibility of slave-trade towards arabs/muslims and away from Europe's notorious racial based chattel slavery.
lol notice how the slave obsessed freak never makes threads of trans-atlantic slave trade it's all about the SE African slaves vs arabs. I see some even commend his transparent efforts, so focking gullible, [Roll Eyes]

Damn if your stupid ass would read(Which by the way I know its hard being Somali and all) you would see that Markellion is proving that the Slave Trade even the Arab trade was funded by Europeans(The Brits) and for the sole purpose of building European infastructure. He is pretty much excusing the evidence of Barbaric Arab Slaveryhttp://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/SStephan/islamic_slavery.htm That still exists today...stupid Arab ass kissing roach...learn to read..
I see the schackles (although invisible these days) are still quite tight around the heels.

Emancipate yourself brother! [Cool]

 -

The nostalgic slave-loving Anglo is *NOT* your friend.

LMAO, this coming from a renegade Somali Vagabond.."Emancipate"...that white dildo Lil' Somali Boi..

Now Face, Bow and Pray to your sacred Arab Rock you insolent Arab loving bimbo

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markellion
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Everyone calm down. There is no room here for insults, this is a very important topic
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markellion
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"The Concise Encyclopedia of economics"

Adam Smith
(1723-1790 )

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/bios/Smith.html

quote:
Smith used numerate economics not just to explain production of pins or differences in pay between butchers and hangmen, but to address some of the most pressing political issues of the day. In the fourth book of The Wealth of Nations—published, remember, in 1776—Smith told Great Britain that its American colonies were not worth the cost of keeping. His reasoning about the excessively high cost of British imperialism is worth repeating, both to show Smith at his numerate best and to show that simple, clear economics can lead to radical conclusions:

A great empire has been established for the sole purpose of raising up a nation of customers who should be obliged to buy from the shops of our different producers all the goods with which these could supply them. For the sake of that little enhancement of price which this monopoly might afford our producers, the home-consumers have been burdened with the whole expense of maintaining and defending that empire. For this purpose, and for this purpose only, in the two last wars, more than a hundred and seventy millions [in pounds] has been contracted over and above all that had been expended for the same purpose in former wars. The interest of this debt alone is not only greater than the whole extraordinary profit, which, it ever could be pretended, was made by the monopoly of the colony trade, but than the whole value of that trade, or than the whole value of the goods, which at an average have been annually exported to the colonies.


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markellion
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The post above about Adam Smith and this one talk about the use of capital for imperialism. In the same way British capital was used to carry on the African slave trade

Modern History Sourcebook:
John Hobson:
Imperialism, 1902

"John A. Hobson English economist, wrote one the most famous critiques of the economic bases of imperialism in 1902."

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1902hobson.html
quote:

No mere array of facts and figures adduced to illustrate the economic nature of the new Imperialism will suffice to dispel the popular delusion that the use of national force to secure new markets by annexing fresh tracts of territory is a sound and a necessary policy for an advanced industrial country like Great Britain....

­ But these arguments are not conclusive. It is open to Imperialists to argue thus: "We must have markets for our growing manufactures, we must have new outlets for the investment of our surplus capital and for the energies of the adventurous surplus of our population: such expansion is a necessity of life to a nation with our great and growing powers of production. An ever larger share of our population is devoted to the manufactures and commerce of towns, and is thus dependent for life and work upon food and raw materials from foreign lands. In order to buy and pay for these things we must sell our goods abroad. During the first three­quarters of the nineteenth century we could do so without difficulty by a natural expansion of commerce with continental nations and our colonies, all of which were far behind us in the main arts of manufacture and the carrying trades. So long as England held a virtual monopoly of the world markets for certain important classes of manufactured goods, Imperialism was unnecessary.

After 1870 this manufacturing and trading supremacy was greatly impaired: other nations, especially Germany, the United States, and Belgium, advanced with great rapidity, and while they have not crushed or even stayed the increase of our external trade, their competition made it more and more difficult to dispose of the full surplus of our manufactures at a profit. The encroachments made by these nations upon our old markets, even in our own possessions, made it most urgent that we should take energetic means to secure new markets. These new markets had to lie in hitherto undeveloped countries, chiefly in the tropics, where vast populations lived capable of growing economic needs which our manufacturers and merchants could supply. Our rivals were seizing and annexing territories for similar purposes, and when they had annexed them closed them to our trade The diplomacy and the arms of Great Britain had to be used in order to compel the owners of the new markets to deal with us: and experience showed that the safest means of securing and developing such markets is by establishing 'protectorates' or by annexation....

It was this sudden demand for foreign markets for manufactures and for investments which was avowedly responsible for the adoption of Imperialism as a political policy.... They needed Imperialism because they desired to use the public resources of their country to find profitable employment for their capital which otherwise would be superfluous....

Every improvement of methods of production, every concentration of ownership and control, seems to accentuate the tendency. As one nation after another enters the machine economy and adopts advanced industrial methods, it becomes more difficult for its manufacturers, merchants, and financiers to dispose profitably of their economic resources, and they are tempted more and more to use their Governments in order to secure for their particular use some distant undeveloped country by annexation and protection.

The process, we may be told, is inevitable, and so it seems upon a superficial inspection.
Everywhere appear excessive powers of production, excessive capital in search of investment. It is admitted by all business men that the growth of the powers of production in their country exceeds the growth in consumption, that more goods can be produced than can be sold at a profit, and that more capital exists than can find remunerative investment.

It is this economic condition of affairs that forms the taproot of Imperialism. If the consuming public in this country raised its standard of consumption to keep pace with every rise of productive powers, there could be no excess of goods or capital clamorous to use Imperialism in order to find markets: foreign trade would indeed exist....


Everywhere the issue of quantitative versus qualitative growth comes up. This is the entire issue of empire. A people limited in number and energy and in the land they occupy have the choice of improving to the utmost the political and economic management of their own land, confining themselves to such accessions of territory as are justified by the most economical disposition of a growing population; or they may proceed, like the slovenly farmer, to spread their power and energy over the whole earth, tempted by the speculative value or the quick profits of some new market, or else by mere greed of territorial acquisition, and ignoring the political and economic wastes and risks involved by this imperial career. It must be clearly understood that this is essentially a choice of alternatives; a full simultaneous application of intensive and extensive cultivation is impossible. A nation may either, following the example of Denmark or Switzerland, put brains into agriculture, develop a finely varied system of public education, general and technical, apply the ripest science to its special manufacturing industries, and so support in progressive comfort and character a considerable population upon a strictly limited area; or it may, like Great r Britain, neglect its agriculture, allowing its lands to go out of cultivation and its population to grow up in towns, fall behind other nations in its methods of education and in the capacity of adapting to its uses the latest scientific knowledge, in order that it may squander its pecuniary and military resources in forcing bad markets and finding speculative fields of investment in distant corners of the earth, adding millions of square miles and of unassimilable population to the area of the Empire.

The driving forces of class interest which stimulate and support this false economy we have explained. No remedy will serve which permits the future operation of these forces. It is idle to attack Imperialism or Militarism as political expedients or policies unless the axe is laid at the economic root of the tree, and the classes for whose interest Imperialism works are shorn of the surplus revenues which seek this outlet.


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The British were of course very much involved with the "Arab" slave trade but the British were also sustaining slavery in the confederate states because these states were dependent on trade with Brittan. The British were very much behind the slavery of Africans in places throughout the world

"Free Trade, The Confederacy, and the Political Economy of Slavery"

http://american_almanac.tripod.com/fwhfree2.htm
quote:


"The South, Slavery and Free Trade

That precisely this had occurred in the better part of the South, was obvious to those "American System" Whigs, allied with Carey, who fought for an alternative policy during the 1840's and 50's. The southern economy had become almost exclusively a slave based, cash crop agricultural one, totally dependant on British markets, and totally indebted to British or British allied finance. As a result, close to between 80 to 90% of all land in the slave states was owned by the approximately 2 to 3% of the population who were slaveholders; three hundred and fifty thousand slaveholders in a population of 11 million. Of these no more than one hundred thousand owed two-thirds of all the land and 90% of all the enslaved black population of 4 million. The bulk of the remaining white population were either landless or struggled to etch out an existence on small farms generally located in the regions poorest agricultural area's. What little industry that existed was rudimentary and primitive in character. The southern economy was totally dependant on outside markets for the sale of its two major export commodities, raw, unfinished cotton and to a lesser degree rice; it was similarly totally dependant on outside markets for the bulk of its foodstuffs, almost all consumer goods, and virtually all capital goods. Almost no other of the extensive mineral and natural resources in these southern states were developed or harnessed. As Thaddeus Stevens, a close ally of Henry Carey, would argue in 1850, comparing Virginia, as an example of the all the southern states, the disparities between north and south were striking....

Along with the development of an industrial economy, agriculture in the northern states had become significantly more productive. The reasons can be seen in the fact that investments in both agricultural and manufacturing were vastly greater in the northern free states than in the slave labor economy of the south; both the value of farm machinery and implements per acre and per farm laborer in the south were approximately one half that in the north. A more telling figure is the percentage of capital invested in manufacturing; in 1860 over 84% of the U.S. total was invested in the north, with a mere 16% in the south; the per capita dollar figure in the north was four times that in the south despite the North's greater population.

As this brutally primitive style of agriculture depleted the soil, for southern capital was tied up in land and slaves, and therefore barred any investment in improvements in cultivation, diversification, or new technologies, the surge for yet new and untapped land in the deep south, the so-called "black belt" states of Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas, along with the demand for even greater numbers of slave laborers, turned the older planter states like Virginia into slave breeders. By the mid 1850's slaves were Virginia's primary export, and the supply of such slave laborers for deep south plantations became the major economic activity of the old south.

While cotton, and rice were still produced in the states of the old south, they generated such low yields, that they no longer were economically viable without massive increases in labor intensity. With little or no investment in any other form of economic activity, by 1860 these areas of the old south were themselves enslaved to a slave based economy, with their productive capacity at feudal levels, and the indebtedness to British "factors" reaching astronomical proportions. Virginia, for example, was so exhausted economically, that while the rest of the south renewed the call for reopening the African slave trade, Virginia consistently opposed such a measure, for an alternative supply of cheap slave labor to the rest of the south would have bankrupted her. In South Carolina, the oldest of the cotton states, agricultural yields per laborer had dropped to levels that were staggering, producing a black slave population that was 125,000 or 20% greater than that of whites; and this despite the export of slave laborers to the deep south.


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markellion wrote:
------------------------------
------------------------------


This boy has serious psychological problems.

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The last three posts were to show how British capital was used in imperialism and slavery itself. If there is anything inaccurate then point it out

Continued from the article on the confederate states

http://american_almanac.tripod.com/fwhfree2.htm

quote:

Such a labor system would not only degrade labor, but would bestialize those who owned, or controlled such labor. Despite the southern propaganda praising the benefits of such a system, and southern assertions of the power of King Cotton, southern planters were themselves chained to such a primitive system, through indebtedness to outside finance, total dependence on the British and British allied New England textile manufacturers, who turned their raw cotton into finished products, and outside suppliers for almost all consumer and capital goods. The need to justify and defend such a system had horrid consequences for what they would become. In this context, the shear violence of southern society is a telling fact, with homicide among southerners, particularly those as a result of dueling or "gentlemen's homicide" reaching frightening rates.

"During this campaign I have seen terrible instances of the horrors of slavery. I have seen men and women as white as the purest type of the Anglo-Saxon race in our army, who had been bought and sold like animals. I have looked upon the mutilated forms of black men who had suffered torture at the caprice of their cruel masters, and I have heard tales of woe too horrible for belief; but in all these cases I have never been so impressed with the degrading, demoralizing influence of this curse of slavery as in the presence of these South Carolinians. The higher classes represent the scum, and the lower the dregs of civilization. They are South Carolinians, not Americans."


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The whole racial hierarchy thing is clearly at work here

"Cherokees accused of racist plot as descendants of black slaves are cast out" March 5, 2007

http://card.wordpress.com/2007/03/05/cherokees-accused-of-racist-plot-as-descendants-of-black-slaves-are-cast-out/

quote:
Cherokees voted yesterday to expel descendants of black slaves they once owned, a move that has exposed the unsavoury role played by some Native Americans during the Civil War and renewed accusations of racism against the tribe.

Members of the Cherokee Nation, the second largest Native American tribe, voted by 77 per cent to 23 in a special election to amend their constitution and limit citizenship to those listed as “Cherokee by blood”.

The move stripped tribal membership from freedmen – those descended from slaves – and blacks who were married to Cherokees. They have enjoyed full citizenship rights for 141 years.

Opponents of the vote denounced it as a racist plot to deny tribal revenue – which includes $22 billion a year from casino takings for all US tribes – to those not deemed full-blood Cherokee, and to block them from claiming a slice of the tribal pie.

Supporters say that it was a long-overdue move by Cherokees to determine their own tribal make-up. Freedmen were granted full tribal membership under an 1866 treaty that the tribe was essentially forced to sign with the US Government after the Civil War ended.

The vote has reopened a lesser-known chapter in Native American history – the fact that some of the country’s largest tribes sided with the Confederacy during the Civil War – and the intra-tribal racial tensions that have persisted since Emancipation.

Cherokees, Choctaws, Chicksaws, Creeks and Seminoles were known as the Five Civilised Tribes because they adopted many of the ways of the Confederate South, including the ownership of black slaves. The election has also high-lighted the massive gambling revenues many tribes now enjoy because, as “sovereign nations”, they are free to build casinos on tribal lands in a country where gambling is largely illegal. (continued in article)

"The East Africa Protectorate"
By Charles Eliot 1905

http://books.google.com/books?id=dJMoAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA102#v=onepage&q=&f=false

quote:

Such conditions occur elsewhere between races who are more or less on the same footing, as, for instance, Europeans and Chinese, but they are probably not found united in any other case where one race is so indisputably inferior. In Australia, New Zealand, and Tasmania the native race tends to disappear, or has disappeared altogether. In the Spanish and Portuguese parts of America a hybrid race has been formed. In North America the Indian tends to disappear, but also to some extent mingles with the whites, and a strain of Indian blood is not, like negro blood, regarded as a disgrace. Nearly all the races of modern Europe and Asia are the result of fusions between conquerors and conquered, and the weaker elements have been eliminated by slaughter or breeding, or by both combined. But the African has hitherto shown no sign, either in his own continent or in America, of yielding to either process


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markellion
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You can read more from Hobson here. According to him the reason for imperialism was to unload excess capital and prevent it from getting in the hands of the public. Though Hobson was a socialist Adam Smith a century earlier said that the interest from the debt in maintaining the American colonies was greater than the profits of the colonial trade

http://www.econlib.org/library/YPDBooks/Hobson/hbsnImp5.html#firstpage-bar

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From "The Wesleyan-Methodist magazine"

Sir Bartle Frere: "I know nothing like it in the history of commerce"

http://books.google.com/books?id=7w4EAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA4-PA616&dq=#v=onepage&q=&f=false

quote:
"Then the European and American commerce to Africa has been almost a secret monopoly in a very few hands. The greatest pains have been taken to keep everything quiet, and though some of the houses traded on a great scale, and employed quite a fleet of merchant vessels, the extent of their business was known to none but themselves, and was not fully realized by any but the most observant of their neighbors at Zanzibar."

We commend to the consideration of our merchants the strange facts brought to light in these investigations. A single Indian house, we are told, employs a capital of half a million sterling in advances to slaveowners and slave-dealers, mainly in Zanzibar alone ! No less than £140,000 is lent to European and American firms, Indians being the creditors, and the great commercial peoples of Europe and the new world the debtors. Nothing gives us so startling an idea of the gigantic proportions and the strange ramifications of this horrible trade as these monetary transactions. Well may Sir Bartle Frere say, " I know nothing like it in the history of commerce ;" and well may the British Indians take the greatest pains to conceal their transactions in " black pepper and " soiled ivory."


The common objections urged against our interference with the slavetrade are disposed of in a few sharp and pointed sentences. " Specious arguments have been urged for withdrawing from all attempts to stop the slave-trade, and ' leaving it alone to cure itself;' and our cruisers have been charged with enhancing the sufferings of the slave by increasing the difficulties of the passage. I am satisfied that there is not a shadow of foundation for this argument. I never heard a single fact or argument which could justify the faintest hope that it slavery or the slave-trade were let alone, they would cure themselves in any number of ages."

" Again, a vast amount of nonsense has been talked about the impossibility of stopping the slave-trade, because slavery is an ancient institution, interwoven with all the usages of Arab society, and the Arabic domestic slave is always well treated. It would be just as reasonable to permit domestic servants in England to be recruited by the murder of parents and the kidnapping of children, because domestic servitude is a time-honored state of life and the servants often fare as well as the masters and mistresses in England."

" It seems to be forgotten that the East African slave-trade in its present shape is the growth of the last half century. A few slaves probably always went ; but in their present numbers, and with the present horrors of original capture and conveyance, the trade has become possible only since piracy was suppressed ; not only because it is chiefly the old pirate tribes among the Arabs who have, of late years, turned their energies to slave-trading, but because such valuable and portable property as a cargo of slaves would have presented unusual temptations to any pirates, so that it is only since the seas have been cleared of pirates that slavetrading on a great scale, and as a branch of ordinary commerce, has become possible."


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From "The Wesleyan-Methodist magazine" (same book as above)

http://books.google.com/books?id=7w4EAAAAQAAJ&pg=RA4-PA511&dq=#v=onepage&q=&f=false

quote:
Sir Bartle Frere's visit to the principal ports in the Sultan's dominions, the Portuguese settlements, and the neighbouring islands, brought to light the fearful extent to which the whole coast is involved in the slavetraffic. At Eilwah Kavinja, described as " the real hotbed of the trade," he had to encounter some of the difficulties and learn the dangers of even official investigation into its operations. " We had been foiled in our attempts to see it on the way down, having been misled and sent to other places of the same name many miles off. It turned out to be a very large town, even more thriving than Zanzibar, not marked on our chartt, and placed out of sight of cruisers, among unsnrveyed reefs, difficult of access to any but Arab dhows. À very large trade, especially in slaves, has its seat here, where Europeans are very rarely seen ;but a Banian emissary, we were told, had been there and to other places on the coast, warning all slave-traders to send their slaves inland, and to tell us nothing. These orders were well obeyed, and I never saw anything so insolent as the soldiers of the Arab Governor, or so obstructive as the usually mild and obsequious Indians. I have specially reported the circumstances, and was really thankful when I got the whole of our party embarked without a collision. But I am certain these people would never have behaved so without distinct orders, and equally certain that unless both Sultan and Banians are brought to their senses, we shall somewhere have a very unpleasant manifestation of slavetraders' anger at our interference with their proceedings."

Very dreary are the conclusions to which our Envoy comes with respect to the Arab and Portuguese occupation of the coast.

Of the Arabs he says, "Their influence, if they have any, is never exercised for good; capital they have none to invest in the land or in its products, and in a financial sense they are entirely in the hands of the natives of India, who carry on almost exclusively the trade of the coast." Of the Portuguese little is said beyond a few expressions of pity for the miserable condition of their settlements. The Governor of Mozambique " admitted that a considerable trade in slaves was carried on within the Portuguese possessions," chiefly in Arab dhows, with Madagascar, and lamented he had not the means of stopping it. " The Portuguese have hitherto failed to attach to themselves either the respect or affections of the natives of the mainland The very rich colony of Mozambique is undeveloped,— the result of over three centuries of occupation, and which will continue till slavery and slave-trade are effectually stopped."


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markellion
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I should point out the “East African” slave trade was not really that much smaller like most people assume. The thing is only an insignificant amount went to the “Middle East”

The first post bellow is to show that the scramble for Africa was in reality a result of Brittan losing it’s trade supremacy. By having a monopoly on many goods Brittan could have a great deal of control over trade with Africa and so didn’t need to conquer territory in order to secure trade. As other nations began to develop in the late 19th century other nations were in competition so then the various nations of Europe sought to carve up the continent because of rivalry against each other. John Hobson does not seem to realize that people all over Africa had already become dependant on European merchandise when he says “These new markets must lie in hitherto undeveloped countries, chiefly in the tropics, where vast populations live capable of growing economic needs which our manufacturers and merchants can supply”

In this sense the slave trade and colonialism were virtually the same thing

The 2nd post shows British “abolition” policies were not a way to end the slave trade but rather a way to gain more control over it. It also shows that the “sultans” had no real power even if we ignore that they were simply puppets of the British. Other Europeans were therefore dependent on the British in order for trade in Africa

John Hobson

“The Economic Taproot of Imperialism”

http://www.econlib.org/library/YPDBooks/Hobson/hbsnImp7.html#firstpage-bar

quote:
An ever larger share of our population is devoted to the manufactures and commerce of towns, and is thus dependent for life and work upon food and raw materials from foreign lands. In order to buy and pay for these things we must sell our goods abroad. During the first three-quarters of the century we could do so without difficulty by a natural expansion of commerce with continental nations and our colonies, all of which were far behind us in the main arts of manufacture and the carrying trades. So long as England held a virtual monopoly of the world markets for certain important classes of manufactured goods, Imperialism was unnecessary. During the last thirty years this manufacturing and trading supremacy has been greatly impaired: other nations, especially Germany, the United States, and Belgium, have advanced with great rapidity, and while they have not crushed or even stayed the increase of our external trade, their competition is making it more and more difficult to dispose of the full surplus of our manufactures at a profit. The encroachments made by these nations upon our old markets, even in our own possessions, make it most urgent that we should take energetic means to secure new markets. These new markets must lie in hitherto undeveloped countries, chiefly in the tropics, where vast populations live capable of growing economic needs which our manufacturers and merchants can supply. Our rivals are seizing and annexing territories for similar purposes, and when they have annexed them close them to our trade.
“Unnatural and Ever Prejudicial: Racial and Colonial Hierarchies in 19th Century Zanzibar.” By Dyer, Jeffery

http://cua.wrlc.org/bitstream/1961/5523/1/etd_jwd35.pdf

Electronic page bottom of 55 and 56

quote:
The British government in India is said to have begun pressuring sultan Said to conclude an agreement limiting his involvement in the East African slave trade as early as 1812, though the first agreement signed between the two was not completed until 1822 when the Moresby Treaty committed the Sultan to refrain from participating in “’all external traffic in slaves’ and in particular the sale of slaves to any Christians.” As a result of continued traffic in slaves from the island to the British and other territories in the north, the Hammerton Treaty was concluded in 1845, which agreed to end altogether the transport of slaves via the waters routes to any power – Arab, Indian or European – by the Sultan or his subjects. However, enforcement of the treaty again proved difficult for the British and the transport of slaves between the territories continued unbroken.

Page 60 One sailor said that the “sultan was”

“never was a man so falsely represented or so little understood as this petty Prince. In England we hear of his munificence, his power… whereas he is merely upheld in the shadow of authority by the countenance of the English.”

Page electronic pages 61 and 62 on the Indians

A pamphlet on England’s policy in East African contends that the Indian population has “silently taken possession of almost the entire trade on the East Coast of Africa” and “had made their influence felt, and in no case more successfully than in blinding people to the fact of their participation in the slave trade”

One source going as far as to suggest that “if the natives of India who were connected with the slave trade (and they were the dregs of Indian society) ceased to have anything to do with it, slavery would soon come to an end.”


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quote:
Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:
Damn if your stupid ass would read(Which by the way I know its hard being Somali and all) you would see that Markellion is proving that the Slave Trade even the Arab trade was funded by Europeans(The Brits) and for the sole purpose of building European infastructure. He is pretty much excusing the evidence of Barbaric Arab Slaveryhttp://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/SStephan/islamic_slavery.htm That still exists today...stupid Arab ass kissing roach...learn to read..

But there is no evidence. The problem is people think if something is repeated over and over it is true, but if you look at the evidence this stuff about Arabs is a figment of the imagination. I hope you realize this

This is an interesting thing that argyle posted
quote:
Originally posted by argyle104:



--------------------------------
A marvelous chapter, entitled "Private Deals," tells of the smugglers and buccaneers who, in defiance of mercantilist restrictions, pioneered the American routes, carrying East African slaves and other booty to the Bermudas and New York.
--------------------------------

http://jwsr.ucr.edu/archive/vol5/number1/v5n1r1.php


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