quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^^Canaanites and Hebrews were different and distinct people.
Canaanites were the original people of the western Levant.
Amorites/Hebrews were an invading people, who beginning By the Middle Bronze Age (2000–1550 B.C.), These Amorites who were originally nomads from the desert regions to the east, had penetrated Canaan and were inhabiting the hilly areas around the cities. From these hills, they launched raids and harassment attacks against the cities.
In addition to the Amorites, other invaders included the the Hurrians (the Horites of the Old Testament), who also came to Canaan from the north. The Late Bronze Age (1550–1200 B.C.), was marked by incursions of new Amorite marauders. As it were, over time the nomadic Amorites had been joined by Amorites who may have previously been in Mesopotamia. So that by now, the total of these Amorites had became the dominant element of the population in Canaan.
The tilting point for Canaan was when the Hyksos (also Amorites) were expelled from Egypt and allowed to settle in Canaan.
These Amorites, together with those already in Canaan overwhelmed the Canaanites and began the process of carving out a nation for themselves.
Milkilu letter no. 5 of 5 to Pharaoh:
"Say to the king, my lord, my god, my Sun: Message of Milkilu, your servant, the dirt at your feet. I fall at the feet of the king, my lord, 7 times and 7 times. May the king, my lord, know that the war against me and against Šuwardata is severe. So may the king, my lord, save his land from the power of the 'Apiru-(Habiru). O[th]erwise, may the king, my lord, send chariots to fetch u[s] lest our servants kill us. Moreover, may the king, my lord, ask Yanhamu, his servant, about what is bein[g] done in his [l]and." -EA 271, lines 1-27 (complete)
Hebrew/Habiru = Egyptian (One who sells his services).
A Letter from Abdu-Heba of Jerusalem
The Hapiru sack the territories of the king. If there are archers (here) this year, all the territories of the king will remain (intact); but if there are no archers, the territories of the king, my Lord, will be lost! To the king, my Lord thus writes Abdu-Heba, your servant. He conveys eloquent words to the king, my Lord. All the territories of the king, my Lord, are lost.
By about 1200 B.C, all of the invasions and wars had started to squeeze the Canaanites. Some of them moved north along the Mediterranean coast, to what is today modern Lebanon. This became known as the "Phoenician culture", a Greek term for these Canaanites who moved north, and developed a new civilization on the coast of what is now modern Lebanon.
The Hebrews began building amid the ruins of the cities that they had destroyed, and new settlements sprang up rapidly all through the hill country. In about 1020 B.C. The first Hebrew king was selected by the prophet Samuel, he anointed Saul, a courageous military leader of the tribe of Benjamin, as the first king.
Mike
Inspite of over 100 years of endless digging by Kazar Jews of palestine, they have not come up with any archelogical site that would substantiate the story of David and Solomon the great. And you are talking about Saul?
Those stories are mere allegories. There were no Amorite invaders in the land who became Hapirus or Hebrews as you say.
There was no historical kingdom of Israel until the Assyrians created Judea in the 5th century BC.
Let's no get too far lost in mythologies, and semantic shifts.
Lion!
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That's an awful lot of history that you say never happened. True, the conventional history is supplemented by the biblical, but not created by same.
For instance; whether the Hyksos expulsion or the Biblical exodus, a lot of people left Egypt. Are you saying that never happened?
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The princes are prostrate saying: "Shalom!" Not one of the Nine Bows lifts his head: Tjehenu is vanquished, Khatti at peace, Canaan is captive with all woe. Ashkelon is conquered, Gezer seized, Yanoam made nonexistent; Israel is wasted, bare of seed , Khor is become a widow for Egypt. All who roamed have been subdued. By the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Banere-meramun, Son of Re, Merneptah, Content with Maat, Given life like Re every day. www.bible-history.com/archaeology/.../2-israel-stela-bb.html
The above is from part of Merneptah victory Stele note that this is the First time Isreal is mentioned out-side a Bibical source..time 1215 B.C, also note Isreal and Canaan are treated as separate entities.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: That's an awful lot of history that you say never happened. True, the conventional history is supplemented by the biblical, but not created by same.
For instance; whether the Hyksos expulsion or the Biblical exodus, a lot of people left Egypt. Are you saying that never happened?
Yes it happened. But according to scholars the exodus headed into Africa not out of it. There are tons of confirmed population movement heading south of Egypt. There are no confirmed population movement heading the way claimed by the classical Hebrews (via across the red sea???)
Anyways, we agree the Hebrews were Black people. We also agree that Canaanites were Black people.
We can finesse the details later ....
Lion! Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: The princes are prostrate saying: "Shalom!" Not one of the Nine Bows lifts his head: Tjehenu is vanquished, Khatti at peace, Canaan is captive with all woe. Ashkelon is conquered, Gezer seized, Yanoam made nonexistent; Israel is wasted, bare of seed , Khor is become a widow for Egypt. All who roamed have been subdued. By the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Banere-meramun, Son of Re, Merneptah, Content with Maat, Given life like Re every day. www.bible-history.com/archaeology/.../2-israel-stela-bb.html
The above is from part of Merneptah victory Stele note that this is the First time Isreal is mentioned out-side a Bibical source..time 1215 B.C, also note Isreal and Canaan are treated as separate entities.
Brada
Yes I have seen that previously. Interpretation re: Israel is false. You need to take another look at the original source...
This is the only claimed reference to Israel in the entire Egyptian history. For a people who reputedly spent 400 years of exile in Egypt and created so much problems, that is a disturbing gap of silence....
Judea was always known as Khor... It was the original home of the Canaanites who lived there before and after Julius Ceasar.
Yes bass, the translation is wrong. Did the so called Israelites ever report this defeat or this so-called clash with Egypt?
Bible scholars get sooo desperate sometimes... They even found the true cross on which Jesus died ....about 400 years after the death of the man (if he ever lived).
Too much mythology, too much ideology...
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posted
Iron Lion I can't read Mdu Ntr..but this is supposed to be part of Merneptah's Stele..can some else can have a look see and translate?.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by IronLion: Israel was an ancient Country Africa is a modern Continent
Where is this man's logic for X sake?
Isreal was on the Middle East, not Africa, Israelites are Middle Eastern People, not African, logical enough for you?
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posted
Pre-Middle Eastern,The so-called Middle East is an I'll defined place as it some-times includes much of Africa..and Geographically speaking some here would hold that the lavant is indeed part Africa because it is of the African plate. Also Africans have been moving and settling into that area for thousands of years.
Archaeogenetics According to an analysis of a sample of human remains from Natufian sites, the inhabitants of the region appeared to have some Sub-Saharan influences. Ricaut et al. associate these Sub-Saharan influences with the dispersal of haplogroup E1b1b lineages from Africa .[14] [15] The material culture of the Natufian also leaves open the possibility of some African influences.
Ofer Bar-Yosef has argued that there are signs of influences coming from Africa to the Levant, citing the microburin technique and “microlithic forms such as arched backed bladelets and La Mouillah points”[5]. There has also been evidence that parthenocarpic figs, were brought by humans from the direction of Sudan in this period
Authors such as Christopher Ehret have built upon the little evidence available to develop scenarios of intensive usage of plants building up first in Africa, and was a precursor to the development of true farming in the Fertile Crescent, but such suggestions are considered speculative until more African archaeological evidence can be gathered Wiki source,but discussed here often.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Pre-Middle Eastern,The so-called Middle East is an I'll defined place as it some-times includes much of Africa..and Geographically speaking some here would hold that the lavant is indeed part Africa because it is of the African plate. Also Africans have been moving and settling into that area for thousands of years.
[b][/b]
.
Behold the lands straddling the [waters] which is [bisected] by the waters of the {Oceans} of Ethiopia:
That sendeth ambassadors by the sea even in vessels of bulrushes upon waters, saying, Go, ye swift messengers, to a nation scattered and peeled, to a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden down whose land the waters have [riven]..
Isiah 18 v 1 and 2...
Man know yourself!
Brada me like the map there man. It give some inspiration...
Lion!
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Africans didn't find Europe or Christianity. Majority of all Africans are still pagans and atheist and practice indigenous faith. Those who are Christians or fake christians are because it was introduced to them through missionary work. It is very how Africans founded europe and yet their land is barren with no civilization. It is questionable how Africans go throughout the world civilizing everyone and building noble monuments and cities but forgot about their own homeland. You black people are so annoying and repulsive with your make-believe African civilizations.
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quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: Africans didn't find Europe or Christianity. Majority of all Africans are still pagans and atheist and practice indigenous faith. Those who are Christians or fake christians are because it was introduced to them through missionary work. It is very how Africans founded europe and yet their land is barren with no civilization. It is questionable how Africans go throughout the world civilizing everyone and building noble monuments and cities but forgot about their own homeland. You black people are so annoying and repulsive with your make-believe African civilizations.
St Augustine was an African black man, he is one of the fathers of Christianity; also Cyprian and Tertullian...
The Christians actually got their acts organized in Egypt for the first time and it was from there that apostles were sent to convert Rome and Germany.
The monasticism of Christianity has a direct ancestor in the age old monastic traditions of Egypt and Ethiopia. In today's Ethiopia, one finds some monastries that can barely count their age anymore.
The desert of northern Sudan is still full of destroyed African Churches of the first century AD. Makuria, Alowa, Meroe in Sudan, are names of some of the redoubts of the earliest Christians. Google those names...
Boy, when Christianity was taking roots in Africa, Europe was still one pale, dank den of wickedness and godlessness; barbarity and perversity...
Go look at yourself good in the mirror!
Lion!
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Betty Boo. Africans didn't create christianity but their concepts made Christianity possible,Kemites and Kushtites didn't called themselves Christians before the Greeks and Armeanians became involved see the above and pervious pages before commenting .
To the Lion knowladge fi share Iyah...bless.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Betty Boo. Africans didn't create christianity but their concepts made Christianity possible,Kemites and Kushtites didn't called themselves Christians before the Greeks and Armeanians became involved see the above and pervious pages before commenting .
To the Lion knowladge fi share Iyah...bless.
Brada
Before the Syrian them, InI was in Christianity.
From his birth, Yeshuah was menanced by Herod so they took him into an Island in Ethiopia on Lake Tana where he hid until the Angels bid his parents to return back to Judea. Today, that Island has a monastry commemorating the event.
Among the wise men was Melchior, one of the Kings whom has been accepted universally to be an African Magus (one of the Magi). They were the true teachers of the man Jesus hence they were called "the wise men" and the "kings". That is their true importance.
All the way to the cross, Symon of Cyreniaca Libya was there with the man helping him to carry his burden. Cyreniaca has always been one of the citadels of the black men of southern Libya.
On the day of the Pentecost, Lucius Niger from the areas around River Niger was there with the other visiting Jews in Jerusalem.
Until his death, every one said that Peter was an Eygptian, and a member of the sect of the Nazaraites.
The Nazarites, the Therapeuteas of Egypt and the Essences, and the Zealots (remeber John the Zealot) were all related because they equally accepted the principle of the African mystic school headquarted in Kemit.
The Gnostics, the first version of Christianity which was suffocated by the later dominant Romanized version was headquartered in Egypt.
I heard that it was St. Mark who founded the Church in Egypt that later became dominant. The Churches and artefacts linked to St. Mark are found as far south as Niger Republic in so called sub-saharan Africa.
Due to the march of history most of those churches fell to the Mohammedean church which itself was a branch of Christianity.
Perverted western christianity later came in as a trojan horse of colonialism. We have seen those kinds of Cristians in Africa before which was in the 5th century AD when the Normans and the Gotts ruled in Northern Africa, before the Moors kicked them out.
But yes, we were there even before the birth of Christ. And from his birth to his death, we were there every breath of the tale.
Lion! Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: Africans didn't find Europe or Christianity. Majority of all Africans are still pagans and atheist and practice indigenous faith. Those who are Christians or fake christians are because it was introduced to them through missionary work. It is very how Africans founded europe and yet their land is barren with no civilization. It is questionable how Africans go throughout the world civilizing everyone and building noble monuments and cities but forgot about their own homeland. You black people are so annoying and repulsive with your make-believe African civilizations.
St Augustine was an African black man, he is one of the fathers of Christianity; also Cyprian and Tertullian...
The Christians actually got their acts organized in Egypt for the first time and it was from there that apostles were sent to convert Rome and Germany.
The monasticism of Christianity has a direct ancestor in the age old monastic traditions of Egypt and Ethiopia. In today's Ethiopia, one finds some monastries that can barely count their age anymore.
The desert of northern Sudan is still full of destroyed African Churches of the first century AD. Makuria, Alowa, Meroe in Sudan, are names of some of the redoubts of the earliest Christians. Google those names...
Boy, when Christianity was taking roots in Africa, Europe was still one pale, dank den of wickedness and godlessness; barbarity and perversity...
Go look at yourself good in the mirror!
Lion!
CHRIST is the founder of Christianity and Africans are all pagans and always has been and always will be. Africans didn't even know what christianity was until it was introduced to them by outsiders. Practically, all of Africa till this very day do not believe in christianity and still practice atheist beliefs and indigenous faiths. Most Africans don't even believe in Christ or God. They believe in their own gods. Give up with trying to make Africa some noble place when it is evident they are backwards, unintelligent, pagan, atheist people. Christianity never took roots in Africa. Christianity began in Jerusalem, first with the jews, then spreaded throughout the caucusus and southeastern europe/meditteranean region. Africa actually was one of the last places to receive christianity. The only people in Africa who were introduce to a form of christianity were the Egyptian, who weren't black at that time, and the ethiopians. It didn't go any further than that. The rest of Africa was still living in the dark walking around naked, picking acorns from trees and sacrificing humans.
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Betty Boo. Africans didn't create christianity but their concepts made Christianity possible,Kemites and Kushtites didn't called themselves Christians before the Greeks and Armeanians became involved see the above and pervious pages before commenting .
To the Lion knowladge fi share Iyah...bless.
LIE! Christianity was predestined and preordained before the world began and it comes from GOD! GOD made christianity possible not your beloved egyptians or kemites. Egyptians were pagans who sacrificed children.
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quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: Africans didn't find Europe or Christianity. Majority of all Africans are still pagans and atheist and practice indigenous faith. Those who are Christians or fake christians are because it was introduced to them through missionary work. It is very how Africans founded europe and yet their land is barren with no civilization. It is questionable how Africans go throughout the world civilizing everyone and building noble monuments and cities but forgot about their own homeland. You black people are so annoying and repulsive with your make-believe African civilizations.
St Augustine was an African black man, he is one of the fathers of Christianity; also Cyprian and Tertullian...
The Christians actually got their acts organized in Egypt for the first time and it was from there that apostles were sent to convert Rome and Germany.
The monasticism of Christianity has a direct ancestor in the age old monastic traditions of Egypt and Ethiopia. In today's Ethiopia, one finds some monastries that can barely count their age anymore.
The desert of northern Sudan is still full of destroyed African Churches of the first century AD. Makuria, Alowa, Meroe in Sudan, are names of some of the redoubts of the earliest Christians. Google those names...
Boy, when Christianity was taking roots in Africa, Europe was still one pale, dank den of wickedness and godlessness; barbarity and perversity...
Go look at yourself good in the mirror!
Lion!
CHRIST is the founder of Christianity and Africans are all pagans and always has been and always will be. Africans didn't even know what christianity was until it was introduced to them by outsiders. Practically, all of Africa till this very day do not believe in christianity and still practice atheist beliefs and indigenous faiths. Most Africans don't even believe in Christ or God. They believe in their own gods. Give up with trying to make Africa some noble place when it is evident they are backwards, unintelligent, pagan, atheist people. Christianity never took roots in Africa. Christianity began in Jerusalem, first with the jews, then spreaded throughout the caucusus and southeastern europe/meditteranean region. Africa actually was one of the last places to receive christianity. The only people in Africa who were introduce to a form of christianity were the Egyptian, who weren't black at that time, and the ethiopians. It didn't go any further than that. The rest of Africa was still living in the dark walking around naked, picking acorns from trees and sacrificing humans.
Liar!
Human sacrifice was a thing quite common with Jews and Europeans. The bogs and the wet lands of Germany, Britain and even United States are full of sacrificial victims of European occult worship.
Your churches are all holding stations for corpses which are brought up once or twice a year to be kissed by the whole neighbourhood. These horrid death worshipping practice artefacts are called Relics. Every century old Church in Europe has one of such corpse in its basement. Is that christianity?
Africa has the most ancient churches in the world. Christ did not found Christianity, he was and is "the idol-god" of Christianity. It was only in Antioch years after his death that certain people practising a certain philosophy with a certain organization, were called Christians. So you lie again.
Tales of foreign human sacrifice are nothing other than European projections onto others, the evil that lie within them Europeans which make them ashame of themselves.
Human sacrifice is central to the rituals of Roman and Western Christianity, as Christ was supposedly sacrificed by his father for the forgiveness of your sins...so again it shows you have no understanding of what you claim.
You are simply one gutter snipe pink trash with a dirty mouth. One lil ignoramus trailer-park high school drop out with angst.
You need to learn how to appear less discrediting to your race because you are one intellectual disaster, an embrassment....a laughing stock...
LOL...LOL... Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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Christianity is nothing but a warmed over and reworked version of ancient beliefs seen in many cultures world wide.
The sun (the son): Symbol of life as it is a critical aspect of life on the planet. The daily cycle of sun rise and sun set being an ancient symbol of the recurring elements of life, death and rebirth in nature as a symbol of the fundamental eternal(undying) nature of creation. The sun is a visible symbol of the eternal power of creation and the creator as it is seen and felt on a daily basis.
The sacrifice: Since time immemorial humans have recognized that in order to live, something must die. This fact gave rise to the practices of animal sacrifice (and sometimes human) thanking the creator for the food that was killed and asking for the continued abundance of animals for food. Eventually the sacrifice symbolized the eternal nature of life itself in that the blood spilled guaranteed new life and was part of the process of the eternal cycles of life/death, night/day, sunset/sunrise or the eternal nature of life itself. Of course the symbolism of the sacrifice also included spilling the blood of ones enemies as a celebration of the victory of the power of ones "gods" over another people.
The Grain: As a fundamental aspect of the human diet, grain has been symbolized as the essence of the earth's blessing of life in the form of the food picked and eaten by the people. Grain again symbolized the yearly cycles of regeneration and harvest around which most early agricultural societies revolved in order to survive. This yearly cycle and the regeneration of the life of the people through the grain became symbolized as the blessing of the creator through his eternal nature which came back every year. Eventually, bread became a symbol of this eternal blessing of nature that feeds the multitude as the literal substance of the sacrifice itself as another example of the cycles of life, death and rebirth in nature..
The wine: Similar to the grain, the wine became symbolic of the yearly harvest that provided food and drink for the people. The wine also symbolized the life blood of the sacrifice which some cultures actually used as the basis of their diet. Eventually this symbolism of the blood of life took on many forms from the blood of menstruation symbolizing the cycle of new life and rebirth to the blood of the sacrifice symbolizing the cycles of life/death and rebirth.
Winter Solstice: Over time, people and cultures became more and more aware of the cycles in nature due to the movements of the sun and moon and other bodies in the sky. They began to realize the importance of these cycles to the cycles of food production and harvest around which they eventually became more organized. The association between the movements of the planet and other bodies in the sky soon became a part of the celebrations of the cycles of life, death and rebirth in life itself. Hence there were various celebrations throughout the year that were intended to celebrate the eternal cycles of life in nature. You had the festival of the winter solstice which celebrated the end of the year, the end of the short periods of daylight and the birth of the "new sun" symbolizing the increasing periods of daylight leading to the summer solstice. The ever lasting nature of life was symbolized by the greens foliage of the various types of trees that persisted throughout the winter.
Spring festival: Then there was the spring festival celebrating the rebirth of life in the form of the new blossoms of spring and the time for planting the seed, symbolized by the egg. Many ancient cultures celebrated this period with painted eggs. This is also the time of the spring equinox when the day and night are roughly the same length. This equinox or balance was symbolized by some cultures as the balance that leads to new life as the days of the spring equinox leads to the days of the harvest in summer and fall.
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Tertullian lived in the ancient city of Carthage in what is now Tunisia, sometime around 200AD.......Tertullian was the first Christian writer to write in Latin 5, and was described three centuries later as writing 'first, and best, and incomparably', of all the writers to do so. (by the unknown author of 'Praedestinatus'). His writing is aggressive, sarcastic and brilliant, and at points very funny even after 2000 years. He was deeply conscious of his own failings, and had a burning desire for truth and integrity. He was described by Jerome as celebrated in all the churches as a speaker; and his works bear the marks of the need to keep an audience awake! His erudition was immense. Much of what he read is lost, but what remains gives a picture of wide reading, which was celebrated even in antiquity.
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: Africans didn't find Europe or Christianity. Majority of all Africans are still pagans and atheist and practice indigenous faith. Those who are Christians or fake christians are because it was introduced to them through missionary work. It is very how Africans founded europe and yet their land is barren with no civilization. It is questionable how Africans go throughout the world civilizing everyone and building noble monuments and cities but forgot about their own homeland. You black people are so annoying and repulsive with your make-believe African civilizations.
St Augustine was an African black man, he is one of the fathers of Christianity; also Cyprian and Tertullian...
The Christians actually got their acts organized in Egypt for the first time and it was from there that apostles were sent to convert Rome and Germany.
The monasticism of Christianity has a direct ancestor in the age old monastic traditions of Egypt and Ethiopia. In today's Ethiopia, one finds some monastries that can barely count their age anymore.
The desert of northern Sudan is still full of destroyed African Churches of the first century AD. Makuria, Alowa, Meroe in Sudan, are names of some of the redoubts of the earliest Christians. Google those names...
Boy, when Christianity was taking roots in Africa, Europe was still one pale, dank den of wickedness and godlessness; barbarity and perversity...
Go look at yourself good in the mirror!
Lion!
CHRIST is the founder of Christianity and Africans are all pagans and always has been and always will be. Africans didn't even know what christianity was until it was introduced to them by outsiders. Practically, all of Africa till this very day do not believe in christianity and still practice atheist beliefs and indigenous faiths. Most Africans don't even believe in Christ or God. They believe in their own gods. Give up with trying to make Africa some noble place when it is evident they are backwards, unintelligent, pagan, atheist people. Christianity never took roots in Africa. Christianity began in Jerusalem, first with the jews, then spreaded throughout the caucusus and southeastern europe/meditteranean region. Africa actually was one of the last places to receive christianity. The only people in Africa who were introduce to a form of christianity were the Egyptian, who weren't black at that time, and the ethiopians. It didn't go any further than that. The rest of Africa was still living in the dark walking around naked, picking acorns from trees and sacrificing humans.
Liar!
Human sacrifice was a thing quite common with Jews and Europeans. The bogs and the wet lands of Germany, Britain and even United States are full of sacrificial victims of European occult worship.
Your churches are all holding stations for corpses which are brought up once or twice a year to be kissed by the whole neighbourhood. These horrid death worshipping practice artefacts are called Relics. Every century old Church in Europe has one of such corpse in its basement. Is that christianity?
Africa has the most ancient churches in the world. Christ did not found Christianity, he was and is "the idol-god" of Christianity. It was only in Antioch years after his death that certain people practising a certain philosophy with a certain organization, were called Christians. So you lie again.
Tales of foreign human sacrifice are nothing other than European projections onto others, the evil that lie within them Europeans which make them ashame of themselves.
Human sacrifice is central to the rituals of Roman and Western Christianity, as Christ was supposedly sacrificed by his father for the forgiveness of your sins...so again it shows you have no understanding of what you claim.
You are simply one gutter snipe pink trash with a dirty mouth. One lil ignoramus trailer-park high school drop out with angst.
You need to learn how to appear less discrediting to your race because you are one intellectual disaster, an embrassment....a laughing stock...
LOL...LOL...
This is a typical response from an African. There are no ancient churches in Africa. The only place that holds churches from "old" is in north eastern Africa. Rather, there is nothing ancient in Africa other than the people and that what is found in the Northeastern parts. The rest of Africa is void of anything ancient. You have proven my point about Africans not believing in Jesus the Christ but believing in their own faith and own gods. For the last time, Africans are a pagan disbelieving people...they always has been and they will always be. Africans come from a culture that sacrifice humans. The egyptians did it and so did the rest of Africa.
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Christianity is nothing but a warmed over and reworked version of ancient beliefs seen in many cultures world wide.
This is the typical response of an afrocentrist or an African. That is why black people and Africans will forever suffer because they can't let go of their pride and stubborness. Colonialism and slavery was very well deserved. The world does not revolve around blacks or Africans. When will you afronuts and africans realize that?
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quote:Egyptians were pagans who sacrificed children.
Genesis 22 (New International Version)
Abraham Tested 1 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, "Abraham!" "Here I am," he replied. 2 Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about."
3 Early the next morning Abraham got up and saddled his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set out for the place God had told him about. 4 On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance. 5 He said to his servants, "Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you."
6 Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together, 7 Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, "Father?" "Yes, my son?" Abraham replied. "The fire and wood are here," Isaac said, "but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?"
8 Abraham answered, "God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." And the two of them went on together.
9 When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10 Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11 But the angel of the LORD called out to him from heaven, "Abraham! Abraham!" "Here I am," he replied.
12 "Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."
God had a sense O humour .."Sight"..
And don't forget the sacrifice to end all sacrifices according to Christians John 3:16 "For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: Africans didn't find Europe or Christianity. Majority of all Africans are still pagans and atheist and practice indigenous faith. Those who are Christians or fake christians are because it was introduced to them through missionary work. It is very how Africans founded europe and yet their land is barren with no civilization. It is questionable how Africans go throughout the world civilizing everyone and building noble monuments and cities but forgot about their own homeland. You black people are so annoying and repulsive with your make-believe African civilizations.
St Augustine was an African black man, he is one of the fathers of Christianity; also Cyprian and Tertullian...
The Christians actually got their acts organized in Egypt for the first time and it was from there that apostles were sent to convert Rome and Germany.
The monasticism of Christianity has a direct ancestor in the age old monastic traditions of Egypt and Ethiopia. In today's Ethiopia, one finds some monastries that can barely count their age anymore.
The desert of northern Sudan is still full of destroyed African Churches of the first century AD. Makuria, Alowa, Meroe in Sudan, are names of some of the redoubts of the earliest Christians. Google those names...
Boy, when Christianity was taking roots in Africa, Europe was still one pale, dank den of wickedness and godlessness; barbarity and perversity...
Go look at yourself good in the mirror!
Lion!
CHRIST is the founder of Christianity and Africans are all pagans and always has been and always will be. Africans didn't even know what christianity was until it was introduced to them by outsiders. Practically, all of Africa till this very day do not believe in christianity and still practice atheist beliefs and indigenous faiths. Most Africans don't even believe in Christ or God. They believe in their own gods. Give up with trying to make Africa some noble place when it is evident they are backwards, unintelligent, pagan, atheist people. Christianity never took roots in Africa. Christianity began in Jerusalem, first with the jews, then spreaded throughout the caucusus and southeastern europe/meditteranean region. Africa actually was one of the last places to receive christianity. The only people in Africa who were introduce to a form of christianity were the Egyptian, who weren't black at that time, and the ethiopians. It didn't go any further than that. The rest of Africa was still living in the dark walking around naked, picking acorns from trees and sacrificing humans.
Liar!
Human sacrifice was a thing quite common with Jews and Europeans. The bogs and the wet lands of Germany, Britain and even United States are full of sacrificial victims of European occult worship.
Your churches are all holding stations for corpses which are brought up once or twice a year to be kissed by the whole neighbourhood. These horrid death worshipping practice artefacts are called Relics. Every century old Church in Europe has one of such corpse in its basement. Is that christianity?
Africa has the most ancient churches in the world. Christ did not found Christianity, he was and is "the idol-god" of Christianity. It was only in Antioch years after his death that certain people practising a certain philosophy with a certain organization, were called Christians. So you lie again.
Tales of foreign human sacrifice are nothing other than European projections onto others, the evil that lie within them Europeans which make them ashame of themselves.
Human sacrifice is central to the rituals of Roman and Western Christianity, as Christ was supposedly sacrificed by his father for the forgiveness of your sins...so again it shows you have no understanding of what you claim.
You are simply one gutter snipe pink trash with a dirty mouth. One lil ignoramus trailer-park high school drop out with angst.
You need to learn how to appear less discrediting to your race because you are one intellectual disaster, an embrassment....a laughing stock...
LOL...LOL...
This is a typical response from an African. There are no ancient churches in Africa. The only place that holds churches from "old" is in north eastern Africa. Rather, there is nothing ancient in Africa other than the people and that what is found in the Northeastern parts. The rest of Africa is void of anything ancient. You have proven my point about Africans not believing in Jesus the Christ but believing in their own faith and own gods. For the last time, Africans are a pagan disbelieving people...they always has been and they will always be. Africans come from a culture that sacrifice humans. The egyptians did it and so did the rest of Africa.
There are no ancient churches over 2000 years old in Europe either. So what is the point?
Religion and beliefs in gods are far older than the christian church. And since the oldest beliefs in any sort of spirits or religion originated with the earliest humans, then of course those patterns of belief had to originate in Africa just all the other core patterns of human behavior.
Of course your retarded racist brain just cannot fathom blacks as the parents of humanity and much of human culture so you have to justify your own hatred of Africans based any old nonsense you can come up with.
Seeing as how Africans have NEVER EVER went ANYWHERE on earth oppressing, killing and destroying people and cultures in the name of AFRICAN supremacy, your point is simply racist bull sh*t. And this is why the church HAS to be the be all and end all as it allows you to wallow in your racist fantasies that the oppression and destruction of Africans is somehow justified based on some FAKE hypothetical African world view that has no merit in fact.
The ONLY people EVER to attempt to conquer the WHOLE WORLD and commit genocide, murder and oppression, many times using RELIGION as reason and justification is Europeans. No amount of trying to blame Africans for the actions of others is justified. Every man or woman is supposed to be the master of themselves and their own actions. If Europeans have done dirt and called it "good" and "righteous", then f*ck them and anyone that believes in it.
All religions at the core are SUPPOSEDLY about how people are supposed to relate to EVERYTHING around them: people, nature, the universe and everything in it. And MOST of them have as a CORE BELIEF that people should be treated with kindness, love and respect along with the earth and everything in it.
But of course humans being what they are have twisted religion into simply a political exercise in mind control and manipulation of the hearts and minds of people to justify large scale power plays by the elite in the name of money and power.
Your racism is simply your own and has nothing to do with the actions of Africans and everything to do with YOUR OWN hatred of the reality of Africans as the fathers and mothers of mankind. And it isn't because AFRICANS think it makes them special it is because YOU WANT to be treated special for the same reason but can't because it isn't reality. Therefore you spew all sorts of, according to your RELIGION, hateful and spiteful slurs about Africans because deep inside you think or WANT the world to revolve AROUND YOU and YOUR racist world view.
All of which reveals the absurd and asinine idea of what you claim to be religion which is simply hypocrisy, lies and propaganda.
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quote:Originally posted by Doug M: Christianity is nothing but a warmed over and reworked version of ancient beliefs seen in many cultures world wide.
This is the typical response of an afrocentrist or an African. That is why black people and Africans will forever suffer because they can't let go of their pride and stubborness. Colonialism and slavery was very well deserved. The world does not revolve around blacks or Africans. When will you afronuts and africans realize that?
Africans suffer because of retards like you who hate Africans for represent, not what they do. Africans have NEVER attempted to make the world REVOLVE around them. In fact it is whites and those who WANNA BE white that want the world to revolve around THEMSELVES ONLY. And because they KNOW that all humans originate from black Africans they have done everything in their power to wipe out and destroy Africans because of their OWN jealousy and hatred of the truth. Africans NEVER EVER claimed that the world revolves around them in any way due to the facts and history of human biology. It is the lying and deceiving whites and their lackeys who have a DESPERATE NEED to create any sort of fake PSEUDO REALITY where they can make the world revolve around them WITHOUT AFRICANS IN IT. This is nothing more than a VILE AND HATEFUL mindset with no basis in anything other than deceit, jealousy and ANYTHING BUT the so-called goodness and ideals of religion. But again the religion of these racists IS LYING, DECEPTION, DEATH AND MURDER to begin with, which makes them worshipers not of goodness and piety but of greed, corruption and ultimately death.
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quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: LIE! Christianity was predestined and preordained before the world began and it comes from GOD! GOD made christianity possible not your beloved egyptians or kemites. Egyptians were pagans who sacrificed children.
LOL! Bytch you're in the wrong forum. I'm sure Pat Robertson or some other religious wacko has a website where you nuts can post this kind of rubbish.
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Pre-Middle Eastern,The so-called Middle East is an I'll defined place as it some-times includes much of Africa..and Geographically speaking some here would hold that the lavant is indeed part Africa because it is of the African plate. Also Africans have been moving and settling into that area for thousands of years.
Archaeogenetics According to an analysis of a sample of human remains from Natufian sites, the inhabitants of the region appeared to have some Sub-Saharan influences. Ricaut et al. associate these Sub-Saharan influences with the dispersal of haplogroup E1b1b lineages from Africa .[14] [15] The material culture of the Natufian also leaves open the possibility of some African influences.
Ofer Bar-Yosef has argued that there are signs of influences coming from Africa to the Levant, citing the microburin technique and “microlithic forms such as arched backed bladelets and La Mouillah points”[5]. There has also been evidence that parthenocarpic figs, were brought by humans from the direction of Sudan in this period
Authors such as Christopher Ehret have built upon the little evidence available to develop scenarios of intensive usage of plants building up first in Africa, and was a precursor to the development of true farming in the Fertile Crescent, but such suggestions are considered speculative until more African archaeological evidence can be gathered Wiki source,but discussed here often.
Still is not Africa, and Israelites weren't Africans, they were Caucasians,also thry were agriculturists and they didn't learn it from Africans.
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Recovering Afrocentrist: And let me guess, you think "caucasian" exclusively means White Anglo Saxxon Protestant (where is my sarcasm button?).
...and let me guess you still don't know "Caucasian" is a bankrupt term? Guess you'll never learn!
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Recovering Afrocentrist: And let me guess, you think "caucasian" exclusively means White Anglo Saxxon Protestant (where is my sarcasm button?).
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
quote:Originally posted by prmiddleeastern: Israelites weren't Africans, they were Caucasians
LOL!
We know he means "black caucasians"
LOL!!! Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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Lion, you flea bitten feline, you can still put your thumb on it.
(We know he means "black caucasians").
Talk about vapor lock, Whites like Betty, and their flunkys like PR, have a very serious case of it.
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Pre-Middle Eastern, This was field reasearched by Folks whose job it is to do this!!
Pre-Middle Eastern
quote:Still is not Africa, and Israelites weren't Africans, they were Caucasians,also thry were agriculturists and they didn't learn it from Africans.
I will print this again if you don't beleive me why don't you go to the source read for yourself or find an alternate answer based not on your opinion but on field research.
quote:Archaeogenetics According to an analysis of a sample of human remains from Natufian sites, the inhabitants of the region appeared to have some Sub-Saharan influences. Ricaut et al. associate these Sub-Saharan influences with the dispersal of haplogroup E1b1b lineages from Africa .[14] [15] The material culture of the Natufian also leaves open the possibility of some African influences.
Ofer Bar-Yosef has argued that there are signs of influences coming from Africa to the Levant, citing the microburin technique and “microlithic forms such as arched backed bladelets and La Mouillah points”[5]. There has also been evidence that parthenocarpic figs, were brought by humans from the direction of Sudan in this period
Authors such as Christopher Ehret have built upon the little evidence available to develop scenarios of intensive usage of plants building up first in Africa, and was a precursor to the development of true farming in the Fertile Crescent, but such suggestions are considered speculative until more African archaeological evidence can be gathered Wiki source,but discussed here often.
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: I will print this again if you don't beleive me why don't you go to the source read for yourself or find an alternate answer based not on your opinion but on field research.
quote:Archaeogenetics According to an analysis of a sample of human remains from Natufian sites, the inhabitants of the region appeared to have some Sub-Saharan influences. Ricaut et al. associate these Sub-Saharan influences with the dispersal of haplogroup E1b1b lineages from Africa .[14] [15] The material culture of the Natufian also leaves open the possibility of some African influences.
Ofer Bar-Yosef has argued that there are signs of influences coming from Africa to the Levant, citing the microburin technique and “microlithic forms such as arched backed bladelets and La Mouillah points”[5]. There has also been evidence that parthenocarpic figs, were brought by humans from the direction of Sudan in this period
Authors such as Christopher Ehret have built upon the little evidence available to develop scenarios of intensive usage of plants building up first in Africa, and was a precursor to the development of true farming in the Fertile Crescent, but such suggestions are considered speculative until more African archaeological evidence can be gathered Wiki source,but discussed here often.
And what about Y Haplogroup J, who is also a precursor of agriculture in the Fertile Crescent and also originated there(of caucasian origin), and Israelites are the principal bearers of J.
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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No one said that Y and J are not present but overlooking the African input mentioned above with conjuction of plants pottery and tools and boldfully declearing Africans had notthing do with formation of the so-called Middle east is bad science. what's more genetic by it self do not tell you what those people carrying those original markers looked like..case in point no one expected a bunch o J's and Y's to look this. What the Y chromosomes tell In contrast to mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) which is passed on exclusively from mother to child and is useful in tracing the ancestry of human populations along female lineages, Y chromosomes are found only in males.
"Using mtDNA the Lemba were indistinguishable from other Bantu-speaking groups. However, when my colleague Mandy Spurdle analysed the Y chromosomes in the Lemba, she found that approximately 50% of the Y chromosomes present in the Lemba appeared to be from Semitic (Jewish or Arab) origin. Thirty six per cent was of African origin, and the ancestry of the remaining 14% could not be resolved by the methodology used at the time. This study sparked a great deal of interest among researchers interested in the origins of the 'Black Jews' of South Africa," says Dr Soodyall.
And I'll say again the Semitic language group is part of the larger African Super-family called Afrasian.
The Semitic family is a member of the larger Afroasiatic family, all of whose other five or more branches are based in Africa. Largely for this reason, the ancestors of Proto-Semitic speakers are believed by many to have first arrived in the Middle East from Africa, possibly as part of the operation of the Saharan pump, around the late Neolithic.[7][8] Diakonoff sees Semitic originating between the Nile Delta and Canaan as the northernmost branch of Afroasiatic. Blench even wonders whether the highly divergent Gurage indicate an origin in Ethiopia (with the rest of Ethiopic Semitic a later back migration). from wiki source..
Now if you have people,goods and culture migrating out of Africa, giving the very language those called "Middle Easterners" use..then why beheive like the founders are of no importance?...
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Betty Boo Boo
quote:Egyptians were pagans who sacrificed children.
Genesis 22 (New International Version)
Abraham Tested 1 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, "Abraham!" "Here I am," he replied. 2 Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about."
3 Early the next morning Abraham got up and saddled his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set out for the place God had told him about. 4 On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance. 5 He said to his servants, "Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you."
6 Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together, 7 Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, "Father?" "Yes, my son?" Abraham replied. "The fire and wood are here," Isaac said, "but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?"
8 Abraham answered, "God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." And the two of them went on together.
9 When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10 Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11 But the angel of the LORD called out to him from heaven, "Abraham! Abraham!" "Here I am," he replied.
12 "Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."
God had a sense O humour .."Sight"..
And don't forget the sacrifice to end all sacrifices according to Christians John 3:16 "For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.
I don't get you apes. Are you defending human sacrification? God hates human sacrification and he hates any sacrifice that is not proper or right his sight. God does not have a sense of humor. He is SERIOUS at all times. Are you actually saying that the MURDER of Christ is a form of a pagan human sacrification? You africans deserve to suffer and you monkies will forever be last in the world. Abraham never sacrificed his child and God never allowed Abraham to sacrifice his child.
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hey Bettyboo, You just quoted a bunch of Gods likes and dislikes. Would you mind telling me how you know?
I mean, did he personally tell you?
Or maybe, after studying his actions and moods for a while, you just kind of figured it out.
Or maybe even, someone who knows him really well and has spoken to him often, maybe even hangs out with him, told you what he is like, and what he likes and doesn't like.
I know it must be something like that, because you sure were really, really emphatic about it. You know, like you knew him really, really well.
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quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: You africans deserve to suffer and you monkies will forever be last in the world. Abraham never sacrificed his child and God never allowed Abraham to sacrifice his child. [/QB]
Besides your unfounded drivel, most of us Africans prefer to be "last in the world monkeys" than, according to you I presume, first in the world non-Africans if that indeed be the case (sarcasm on). I'm not kidding. That is the overall sentiment amomg us and it seems to strike up envy. Just look at the incessant trolling by the likes of people like you on this board.
I mean, I have NEVER been to stormfront and don't plan on going. Only know about it from posters mentioning it here. Kind of fits that I LOVE things that involve people like me..."Africans". You obviously are not one and don't enjoy things involving them. So why do you visit here so much?
Happy new year! Posts: 455 | From: Tharsis Montes | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: I would like to get back on track Mike ignore the idiot for a second please..and Doug while this is not Persia,this comparision comes from much earlier but from the same general area Now keep in mind that one of the zootype for Jesus was the fish. Late Roman / Early Byzantine bronze scale-weight. 5th-9th century AD. Beautiful piece with classic early Christian fish and "Beta" inscribed. White inlay still visible in details. 23 mm diameter, weighs 53.1 grams. #690: www.ancientresource.com/lots/byzantine.html
Yes Persia and Babylon and the general area from Mesopotamia to Egypt had a strong influence on the development of Christianity. But that is only obvious as these are the cradles of civilization and the names of these kingdoms and empires are throughout the Bible.
And this is just a small example of the various styles of dress and attire that have become part of later Western attire that most people are unaware of that goes back thousands of years.
This even includes some aspects that would later become Islamic as well.
quote: A combined star and crescent motif is commonly found on coins minted by the Sassanids.[2] This has led some researchers to suggest that Muslims adopted the symbol in the context of its use by Sassanian rulers. After describing the crowns of a number of Sassanid kings, which featured a crescent, sphere and crescent, or star and crescent, H. Ayatollahi remarks, "Sasani coins remained in circulation in Moslem countries up to the end of the first century [Hijra]. This detailed description of Sasani crowns was presented because the motifs mentioned, particularly the crescent and star gradually changed into Islamic symbols and have often appeared in the decorative patterns of various periods of Islamic art." This author asserts that "The flags of many Islamic countries bear crescents and stars and are proof of this Sasani innovation." .[3]
This symbol or association of distinct symbols, however, predates Zoroastrianism, and the Sassanids. It was used by the Parthians and earlier in Mesopotamia, in modern times known as Iraq. "The Parthian king Mithradates I conquered Mesopotamia around 147 B.C., and Susa in about 140 B.C. A later Parthian king, Orodes II (58-38 B.C.), issued coins at Susa and elsewhere which display a star and crescent on the obverse. The succeeding ruler, Phraates IV (38-3/2 B.C.), minted coins showing either a star alone or a star with crescent moon. In representing the star and crescent on their coins the Parthians thus adopted traditional symbols used in Mesopotamia and Elam more than two millennia before their own arrival in those parts."[4]
The symbol was used on ancient coinage almost as well. Many scholars maintain that the Western interpretation of the symbol arose from Babylonian mythology in which the juxtaposition of Sin (moon god, father of time) and Shamash (supreme ruling sun god, judge of heaven and earth) was a metaphor for the cosmic powers given to the Babylonian king to rule.[5]
The widespread use of a star and crescent on coins (which are one of the best sources of evidence for iconography in the ancient world) is perhaps unsurprising given the often clear visibility of the moon and stars in the night sky; the astrological significance assigned to conjunctions; the association of celestial bodies with the gods of various pantheons; the association of justification for rule with divine mandate, and; the role that coins played in spreading the propaganda of specific rulers in their dominions and abroad.
And this theme of ancient patterns of mystical symbolism.
The magi:
quote: As early as the 5th century BC, Greek magos had spawned mageia and magike to describe the activity of a magus, that is, it was his or her art and practice. But almost from the outset the noun for the action and the noun for the actor parted company. Thereafter, mageia was used not for what actual magi did, but for something related to the word 'magic' in the modern sense, i.e. using supernatural means to achieve an effect in the natural world, or the appearance of achieving these effects through trickery or sleight of hand. The early Greek texts typically have the pejorative meaning, which in turn influenced the meaning of magos to denote a conjurer and a charlatan. Already in the mid-5th century BC, Herodotus identifies the magi as interpreters of omens and dreams (Histories 7.19, 7.37, 1.107, 1.108, 1.120, 1.128).
Once the magi had been associated with "magic"—Greek magikos—it was but a natural progression that the Greek's image of Zoroaster would metamorphose into a magician too.[4] The first century Pliny the elder names "Zoroaster" as the inventor of magic (Natural History xxxx.2.3), but a "principle of the division of labor appears to have spared Zoroaster most of the responsibility for introducing the dark arts to the Greek and Roman worlds. That dubious honor went to another fabulous magus, Ostanes, to whom most of the pseudepigraphic magical literature was attributed."[4] For Pliny, this magic was a "monstrous craft" that gave the Greeks not only a "lust" (aviditatem) for magic, but a downright "madness" (rabiem) for it, and Pliny supposed that Greek philosophers—among them Pythagoras, Empedocles, Democritus, and Plato—traveled abroad to study it, and then returned to teach it (xxx.2.8-10).
"Zoroaster" – or rather what the Greeks supposed him to be – was for the Hellenists the figurehead of the 'magi', and the founder of that order (or what the Greeks considered to be an order). He was further projected as the author of a vast compendium of "Zoroastrian" pseudepigrapha, composed in the main to discredit the texts of rivals. "The Greeks considered the best wisdom to be exotic wisdom" and "what better and more convenient authority than the distant — temporally and geographically — Zoroaster?"[4] The subject of these texts, the authenticity of which was rarely challenged, ranged from treatises on nature to ones on necromancy. But the bulk of these texts dealt with astronomical speculations and magical lore.
One factor for the association with astrology was Zoroaster's name, or rather, what the Greeks made of it. Within the scheme of Greek thinking (which was always on the lookout for hidden significances and "real" meanings of words) his name was identified at first with star-worshiping (astrothytes "star sacrificer") and, with the Zo-, even as the living star. Later, an even more elaborate mytho-etymology evolved: Zoroaster died by the living (zo-) flux (-ro-) of fire from the star (-astr-) which he himself had invoked, and even, that the stars killed him in revenge for having been restrained by him.
The second, and "more serious"[5] factor for the association with astrology was the notion that Zoroaster was a Chaldean. The alternate Greek name for Zoroaster was Zaratas/Zaradas/Zaratos (cf. Agathias 2.23-5, Clement Stromata I.15), which—so Bidez and Cumont—derived from a Semitic form of his name. The Pythagorean tradition considered the "founder" of their order to have studied with Zoroaster in Chaldea (Porphyry Life of Pythagoras 12, Alexander Polyhistor apud Clement's Stromata I.15, Diodorus of Eritrea, Aristoxenus apud Hippolitus VI32.2). Lydus (On the Months II.4) attributes the creation of the seven-day week to "the Chaldeans in the circle of Zoroaster and Hystaspes," and who did so because there were seven planets. The Suda's chapter on astronomia notes that the Babylonians learned their astrology from Zoroaster. Lucian of Samosata (Mennipus 6) decides to journey to Babylon "to ask one of the magi, Zoroaster's disciples and successors," for their opinion.
However, while this tradition of the Magi is related to the Fire temples and high priests of Persia, there is also a more ancient tradition in the form of the cosmology of Egypt and elsewhere. This older cosmology also includes star watching, fire symbolism and other rites carried out under the patronage of high priests and included various wands and other implements considered "magical".
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And this is just a small part of the overall amount of cross cultural elements found in world of warcraft: African style weapons (axes/swords/etc), Chinese/Asian mythical creatures and traditions, Native American mystical traditions, Islamic mystical traditions, African geomancy and alchemy and so forth and so on.
Early Islam in Africa and elsewhere was strongly infused with pre Islamic mystical traditions:
quote: Other features of Iberian Islam were less obviously religious. Like Christians, Spanish Muslims were great believers in astrology and numerology. They consulted horoscopes and almanacs and recorded propitious or unlucky dates in the calendar that might indicate bad or good harvests, rain or drought, peace or war. Like Spanish Christians also, they were often superstitious, to the dismay of their religious leaders. They wore amulets and bracelets with Koranic quotations to bring good luck or ward off the evil eye. They conjured spells and made potions that could hurt their enemies, cause individuals to fall in and out of love, cure jealousy, arouse sexual desire, or prevent evil spirits from entering a new house. There were potions that could make people invisible, enable them to travel vast distances quickly, or make it possible to see spirits by mixing the skin of a black and the fact of a white chicken and rubbing the mixture in the eyes.
quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: You africans ...will forever be last in the world.
Africans (or Sudanese) were first in the world. Later on even if they didn't maintain first place they were still fairly high up. The Muslim conquests relied on Sudanese soldiers and financing
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In that vain Doug..this is how supposedly some Christian and Jewish Americans choose to be buried Miller Pyramid, Mountain View Cemetery, Oakland Magnolia Cemetery in Charleston, South Carolina and Sudan for comparision. Lifted from Mike's post thanks Mike the Star and cresent as pointed out by you earlier
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: I would like to get back on track Mike ignore the idiot for a second please..and Doug while this is not Persia,this comparision comes from much earlier but from the same general area Now keep in mind that one of the zootype for Jesus was the fish. Late Roman / Early Byzantine bronze scale-weight. 5th-9th century AD. Beautiful piece with classic early Christian fish and "Beta" inscribed. White inlay still visible in details. 23 mm diameter, weighs 53.1 grams. #690: www.ancientresource.com/lots/byzantine.html
And note the Persian origin of the Style of the Medieval tradition which goes all the way back to the Achmaenids and other Persian, Babylonian and Egyptian traditions.
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: No one said that Y and J are not present but overlooking the African input mentioned above with conjuction of plants pottery and tools and boldfully declearing Africans had notthing do with formation of the so-called Middle east is bad science. what's more genetic by it self do not tell you what those people carrying those original markers looked like..case in point no one expected a bunch o J's and Y's to look this. What the Y chromosomes tell In contrast to mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) which is passed on exclusively from mother to child and is useful in tracing the ancestry of human populations along female lineages, Y chromosomes are found only in males.
"Using mtDNA the Lemba were indistinguishable from other Bantu-speaking groups. However, when my colleague Mandy Spurdle analysed the Y chromosomes in the Lemba, she found that approximately 50% of the Y chromosomes present in the Lemba appeared to be from Semitic (Jewish or Arab) origin. Thirty six per cent was of African origin, and the ancestry of the remaining 14% could not be resolved by the methodology used at the time. This study sparked a great deal of interest among researchers interested in the origins of the 'Black Jews' of South Africa," says Dr Soodyall.
And I'll say again the Semitic language group is part of the larger African Super-family called Afrasian.
The Semitic family is a member of the larger Afroasiatic family, all of whose other five or more branches are based in Africa. Largely for this reason, the ancestors of Proto-Semitic speakers are believed by many to have first arrived in the Middle East from Africa, possibly as part of the operation of the Saharan pump, around the late Neolithic.[7][8] Diakonoff sees Semitic originating between the Nile Delta and Canaan as the northernmost branch of Afroasiatic. Blench even wonders whether the highly divergent Gurage indicate an origin in Ethiopia (with the rest of Ethiopic Semitic a later back migration). from wiki source..
Now if you have people,goods and culture migrating out of Africa, giving the very language those called "Middle Easterners" use..then why beheive like the founders are of no importance?...
Isrealites were of majority Y-DNA J, the E3b were the Arabs, the Samaritans and other Middle Eastern, but Jewish were of Levantine origin.
Posts: 1106 | From: Puerto Rico | Registered: Aug 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: hey Bettyboo, You just quoted a bunch of Gods likes and dislikes. Would you mind telling me how you know?
I mean, did he personally tell you?
Or maybe, after studying his actions and moods for a while, you just kind of figured it out.
Or maybe even, someone who knows him really well and has spoken to him often, maybe even hangs out with him, told you what he is like, and what he likes and doesn't like.
I know it must be something like that, because you sure were really, really emphatic about it. You know, like you knew him really, really well.
Are you still defending human sacrification? God hates human sacrification and it was commanded to the Israelites to stay away from it. And there is a reason God wasn't happy with Cain sacrifice but pleased with Abel's. Read the bible you African Christian (Sarcasm). God is agaisnt human sacrification and any form of sacrifice that isn't pleasing in his sight.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Bettyboo: You africans ...will forever be last in the world.
Africans (or Sudanese) were first in the world. Later on even if they didn't maintain first place they were still fairly high up. The Muslim conquests relied on Sudanese soldiers and financing
I thought Islam is of African origin? I suppose the Muslims relied on Muslims soldiers and financing.
Posts: 2088 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Quite telling^ Whether they realize it or not, they are practicing the ancient pagan rite of worshipping Dagon.
According to The Catholic Encyclopedia:
"As to the ritual of his worship... we only know from ancient writers that, for religious reasons, most of the Syrian peoples abstained from eating fish, a practice that one is naturally inclined to connect with the worship of a fish-god." - The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1913, Encyclopedia Press, Inc
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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