posted
so Mike. You saying the black man has been fvcking outside hsi race since pre-history. LOL.
He must have been an NFL player!
Couldn't resist. LOL
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Cro-Magnon people carried haplogroup N:
quote:
Specific mtDNA sites outside HVRI were also analyzed (by amplification, cloning, and sequencing of the surrounding region) to classify more precisely the ancient sequences within the phylogenetic network of present-time mtDNAs (35, 36). Paglicci-25 has the following motifs: +7,025 AluI, 00073A, 11719G, and 12308A. Therefore, this sequence belongs to either haplogroups HV or pre-HV, two haplogroups rare in general but with a comparatively high frequencies among today's Near-Easterners (35). Paglicci-12 shows the motifs 00073G, 10873C, 10238T, and AACC between nucleotide positions 10397 and 10400, which allows the classification of this sequence into the macrohaplogroupN,containing haplogroups W, X, I, N1a, N1b, N1c, and N*. Following the definition given in ref. 36, the presence of a single mutation in 16,223 within HRVI suggests a classification of Paglicci-12 into the haplogroup N*, which is observed today in several samples from the Near East and, at lower frequencies, in the Caucasus (35). It is difficult to say whether the apparent evolutionary relationship between Paglicci-25 and Paglicci-12 and those populations is more than a coincidence. Indeed, the haplogroups to which the Cro-Magnon type sequences appear to belong are rare among modern samples, and therefore their frequencies are poorly estimated. However, genetic affinities between the first anatomically modern Europeans and current populations of the Near East make sense in the light of the likely routes of Upper Paleolithic human expansions in Europe, as documented in the archaeological record (37).
This suggest that haplogroup N was taken to Western Eurasia by the San people=Cro-Magnon.
This makes it clear, to me, that hg N in Africa is not the result of a back mjration.
.
.
Clyde since when did the San carry hg N?
The HadzaII carry hg N see Fig.3:
Tishkoff S A , M. K. Gonder, B. M. Henn, H. Mortensen, A. Knight, C. Gignoux, N. Fernandopulle, G. Lema, T. B. Nyambo, U. Ramakrishnan, et al.(2007).History of Click-Speaking Populations of Africa Inferred from mtDNA and Y Chromosome Genetic Variation. Mol. Biol. Evol., 24(10): 2180 - 2195. [Abstract] [Full Text] [PDF]
This Khoisan group probably represented the Grimaldi who settled Europe as the Cro-Magnon population.
Not sure how the sampling is done but Nigerians carry 3-times the amount of hg-N than the Hadza II
BTW 1 out of 79 doesn't say much. I assume they checked this one Hadza to varify the parentage.
Also interesting is that Nigerians carry a higher percentage of hg-N than Ethiopians.
Genetics is a bitch!!
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That is what it looks like to me. I just downloaded and saved the PDF from the link I posted.
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Cro-Magnon people carried haplogroup N:
quote:
Specific mtDNA sites outside HVRI were also analyzed (by amplification, cloning, and sequencing of the surrounding region) to classify more precisely the ancient sequences within the phylogenetic network of present-time mtDNAs (35, 36). Paglicci-25 has the following motifs: +7,025 AluI, 00073A, 11719G, and 12308A. Therefore, this sequence belongs to either haplogroups HV or pre-HV, two haplogroups rare in general but with a comparatively high frequencies among today's Near-Easterners (35). Paglicci-12 shows the motifs 00073G, 10873C, 10238T, and AACC between nucleotide positions 10397 and 10400, which allows the classification of this sequence into the macrohaplogroupN,containing haplogroups W, X, I, N1a, N1b, N1c, and N*. Following the definition given in ref. 36, the presence of a single mutation in 16,223 within HRVI suggests a classification of Paglicci-12 into the haplogroup N*, which is observed today in several samples from the Near East and, at lower frequencies, in the Caucasus (35). It is difficult to say whether the apparent evolutionary relationship between Paglicci-25 and Paglicci-12 and those populations is more than a coincidence. Indeed, the haplogroups to which the Cro-Magnon type sequences appear to belong are rare among modern samples, and therefore their frequencies are poorly estimated. However, genetic affinities between the first anatomically modern Europeans and current populations of the Near East make sense in the light of the likely routes of Upper Paleolithic human expansions in Europe, as documented in the archaeological record (37).
This suggest that haplogroup N was taken to Western Eurasia by the San people=Cro-Magnon.
This makes it clear, to me, that hg N in Africa is not the result of a back mjration.
.
.
Clyde since when did the San carry hg N?
The HadzaII carry hg N see Fig.3:
Tishkoff S A , M. K. Gonder, B. M. Henn, H. Mortensen, A. Knight, C. Gignoux, N. Fernandopulle, G. Lema, T. B. Nyambo, U. Ramakrishnan, et al.(2007).History of Click-Speaking Populations of Africa Inferred from mtDNA and Y Chromosome Genetic Variation. Mol. Biol. Evol., 24(10): 2180 - 2195. [Abstract] [Full Text] [PDF]
This Khoisan group probably represented the Grimaldi who settled Europe as the Cro-Magnon population.
.
Clyde the Hazda of Tanzania are not related to Khoisan other than the similarity in click languages that they speak.
Hadza are predominately haplgroup B which links them to Pygmies whereas the Khoisan are hg A and the Mtdna doesn't link them to the Khoisan either, the Hadza carry L4 and L2 while the Khoisan carry L0d/L0k Mtdna hg.
So again Clyde, since when did the San carry Hg N to bring into Europe?
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Research Articles The Genetic Structure and History of Africans and African Americans Sarah A. Tishkoff,1,2,* Floyd A. Reed,1,, Françoise R. Friedlaender,3, Christopher Ehret,4 Alessia Ranciaro,1,2,5, Alain Froment,6, Jibril B. Hirbo,1,2 Agnes A. Awomoyi,1,|| Jean-Marie Bodo,7 Ogobara Doumbo,8 Muntaser Ibrahim,9 Abdalla T. Juma,9 Maritha J. Kotze,10 Godfrey Lema,11 Jason H. Moore,12 Holly Mortensen,1,¶ Thomas B. Nyambo,11 Sabah A. Omar,13 Kweli Powell,1,# Gideon S. Pretorius,14 Michael W. Smith,15 Mahamadou A. Thera,8 Charles Wambebe,16 James L. Weber,17 Scott M. Williams18
Africa is the source of all modern humans, but characterization of genetic variation and of relationships among populations across the continent has been enigmatic. We studied 121 African populations, four African American populations, and 60 non-African populations for patterns of variation at 1327 nuclear microsatellite and insertion/deletion markers. We identified 14 ancestral population clusters in Africa that correlate with self-described ethnicity and shared cultural and/or linguistic properties. We observed high levels of mixed ancestry in most populations, reflecting historical migration events across the continent. Our data also provide evidence for shared ancestry among geographically diverse hunter-gatherer populations (Khoesan speakers and Pygmies). The ancestry of African Americans is predominantly from Niger-Kordofanian (~71%), European (~13%), and other African (~8%) populations, although admixture levels varied considerably among individuals. This study helps tease apart the complex evolutionary history of Africans and African Americans, aiding both anthropological and genetic epidemiologic studies.[/1]
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Cro-Magnon people carried haplogroup N:
quote:
Specific mtDNA sites outside HVRI were also analyzed (by amplification, cloning, and sequencing of the surrounding region) to classify more precisely the ancient sequences within the phylogenetic network of present-time mtDNAs (35, 36). Paglicci-25 has the following motifs: +7,025 AluI, 00073A, 11719G, and 12308A. Therefore, this sequence belongs to either haplogroups HV or pre-HV, two haplogroups rare in general but with a comparatively high frequencies among today's Near-Easterners (35). Paglicci-12 shows the motifs 00073G, 10873C, 10238T, and AACC between nucleotide positions 10397 and 10400, which allows the classification of this sequence into the macrohaplogroupN,containing haplogroups W, X, I, N1a, N1b, N1c, and N*. Following the definition given in ref. 36, the presence of a single mutation in 16,223 within HRVI suggests a classification of Paglicci-12 into the haplogroup N*, which is observed today in several samples from the Near East and, at lower frequencies, in the Caucasus (35). It is difficult to say whether the apparent evolutionary relationship between Paglicci-25 and Paglicci-12 and those populations is more than a coincidence. Indeed, the haplogroups to which the Cro-Magnon type sequences appear to belong are rare among modern samples, and therefore their frequencies are poorly estimated. However, genetic affinities between the first anatomically modern Europeans and current populations of the Near East make sense in the light of the likely routes of Upper Paleolithic human expansions in Europe, as documented in the archaeological record (37).
This suggest that haplogroup N was taken to Western Eurasia by the San people=Cro-Magnon.
This makes it clear, to me, that hg N in Africa is not the result of a back mjration.
.
.
Clyde since when did the San carry hg N?
The HadzaII carry hg N see Fig.3:
Tishkoff S A , M. K. Gonder, B. M. Henn, H. Mortensen, A. Knight, C. Gignoux, N. Fernandopulle, G. Lema, T. B. Nyambo, U. Ramakrishnan, et al.(2007).History of Click-Speaking Populations of Africa Inferred from mtDNA and Y Chromosome Genetic Variation. Mol. Biol. Evol., 24(10): 2180 - 2195. [Abstract] [Full Text] [PDF]
This Khoisan group probably represented the Grimaldi who settled Europe as the Cro-Magnon population.
.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by MindoverMatter718:
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Cro-Magnon people carried haplogroup N:
quote:
Specific mtDNA sites outside HVRI were also analyzed (by amplification, cloning, and sequencing of the surrounding region) to classify more precisely the ancient sequences within the phylogenetic network of present-time mtDNAs (35, 36). Paglicci-25 has the following motifs: +7,025 AluI, 00073A, 11719G, and 12308A. Therefore, this sequence belongs to either haplogroups HV or pre-HV, two haplogroups rare in general but with a comparatively high frequencies among today's Near-Easterners (35). Paglicci-12 shows the motifs 00073G, 10873C, 10238T, and AACC between nucleotide positions 10397 and 10400, which allows the classification of this sequence into the macrohaplogroupN,containing haplogroups W, X, I, N1a, N1b, N1c, and N*. Following the definition given in ref. 36, the presence of a single mutation in 16,223 within HRVI suggests a classification of Paglicci-12 into the haplogroup N*, which is observed today in several samples from the Near East and, at lower frequencies, in the Caucasus (35). It is difficult to say whether the apparent evolutionary relationship between Paglicci-25 and Paglicci-12 and those populations is more than a coincidence. Indeed, the haplogroups to which the Cro-Magnon type sequences appear to belong are rare among modern samples, and therefore their frequencies are poorly estimated. However, genetic affinities between the first anatomically modern Europeans and current populations of the Near East make sense in the light of the likely routes of Upper Paleolithic human expansions in Europe, as documented in the archaeological record (37).
This suggest that haplogroup N was taken to Western Eurasia by the San people=Cro-Magnon.
This makes it clear, to me, that hg N in Africa is not the result of a back mjration.
.
.
Clyde since when did the San carry hg N?
The HadzaII carry hg N see Fig.3:
Tishkoff S A , M. K. Gonder, B. M. Henn, H. Mortensen, A. Knight, C. Gignoux, N. Fernandopulle, G. Lema, T. B. Nyambo, U. Ramakrishnan, et al.(2007).History of Click-Speaking Populations of Africa Inferred from mtDNA and Y Chromosome Genetic Variation. Mol. Biol. Evol., 24(10): 2180 - 2195. [Abstract] [Full Text] [PDF]
This Khoisan group probably represented the Grimaldi who settled Europe as the Cro-Magnon population.
.
In reference to the study. Some of the Mtdna sequences noted above not only show high frequency in the Near East but they are also show moderate distribution in East Africa. HV and Pre-HV is basically gathered around the red sea. And many of the "non-African" lineages in Ethiopia dont show matches elsewhere representing deep ancestry. Fimiliar Ethiopian / Yemen gate of Tears study.
(Disregard the bullshit in the Introduction)
quote: Median joining network of Ethiopian and Yemeni mtDNA haplotypes. Node sizes are proportional to haplotype frequencies, indicated within nodes for n>1. Haplotypes observed in Ethiopian and Yemeni samples are distinguished by pink and green, respectively. Variable positions (tables A1–A6 [online only]) are indicated along links that connect haplotypes. Nucleotide changes are specified only in the case of transversions. A, Network of haplogroups L0–L6. For haplotypes observed in the Yemeni population, matching HVS-I types in samples from northeastern Africa (Krings et al. 1999; Stevanovitch et al. 2004) and Mozambique (Pereira et al. 2001; Salas et al. 2002) are indicated by yellow and blue stars, respectively. B, Network of haplogroups M and N. For haplotypes observed in the Ethiopian population, matching HVS-I types in samples from northeastern Africa (Krings et al. 1999; Stevanovitch et al. 2004) and in the Arabian Peninsula and Iraq (Richards et al. 2000; Al-Zahery et al. 2003) are indicated by yellow and blue stars, respectively.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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Bayesian coalescent inference of major human mitochondrial DNA haplogroup expansions in Africa.
Past population size can be estimated from modern genetic diversity using coalescent theory. Estimates of ancestral human population dynamics in sub-Saharan Africa can tell us about the timing and nature of our first steps towards colonizing the globe. Here, we combine Bayesian coalescent inference with a dataset of 224 complete human mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequences to estimate effective population size through time for each of the four major African mtDNA haplogroups (L0–L3). We find evidence of three distinct demographic histories underlying the four haplogroups. Haplogroups L0 and L1 both show slow, steady exponential growth from 156 to 213 kyr ago. By contrast, haplogroups L2 and L3 show evidence of substantial growth beginning 12–20 and 61–86 kyr ago, respectively. These later expansions may be associated with contemporaneous environmental and/or cultural changes. The timing of the L3 expansion—8–12 kyr prior to the emergence of the first non-African mtDNA lineages—together with high L3 diversity in eastern Africa, strongly supports the proposal that the human exodus from Africa and subsequent colonization of the globe was prefaced by a major expansion within Africa, perhaps driven by some form of cultural innovation.
THIS ARTICLE HAS BEEN CITED BY OTHER ARTICLES: Culture rather than genes provides greater scope for the evolution of large-scale human prosociality. A. V. Bell, P. J. Richerson, and R. McElreath (2009) PNAS 106, 17671-17674 Abstract » Full Text » PDF » Out of Africa: Modern Human Origins Special Feature: Additional evidence on the use of personal ornaments in the Middle Paleolithic of North Africa. F. d'Errico, M. Vanhaeren, N. Barton, A. Bouzouggar, H. Mienis, D. Richter, J.-J. Hublin, S. P. McPherron, and P. Lozouet (2009) PNAS 106, 16051-16056 Abstract » Full Text » PDF » Fire As an Engineering Tool of Early Modern Humans. K. S. Brown, C. W. Marean, A. I. R. Herries, Z. Jacobs, C. Tribolo, D. Braun, D. L. Roberts, M. C. Meyer, and J. Bernatchez (2009) Science 325, 859-862 Abstract » Full Text » PDF » Late Pleistocene Demography and the Appearance of Modern Human Behavior. A. Powell, S. Shennan, and M. G. Thomas (2009) Science 324, 1298-1301 Abstract » Full Text » PDF »
Ages for the Middle Stone Age of Southern Africa: Implications for Human Behavior and Dispersal Zenobia Jacobs,1* Richard G. Roberts,1 Rex F. Galbraith,2 Hilary J. Deacon,3 Rainer Grün,4 Alex Mackay,5 Peter Mitchell,6 Ralf Vogelsang,7 Lyn Wadley8
The expansion of modern human populations in Africa 80,000 to 60,000 years ago and their initial exodus out of Africa have been tentatively linked to two phases of technological and behavioral innovation within the Middle Stone Age of southern Africa—the Still Bay and Howieson's Poort industries—that are associated with early evidence for symbols and personal ornaments. Establishing the correct sequence of events, however, has been hampered by inadequate chronologies. We report ages for nine sites from varied climatic and ecological zones across southern Africa that show that both industries were short-lived (5000 years or less), separated by about 7000 years, and coeval with genetic estimates of population expansion and exit times. Comparison with climatic records shows that these bursts of innovative behavior cannot be explained by environmental factors alone.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Y-chromosomal evidence of a pastoralist migration through Tanzania to southern Africa
Although geneticists have extensively debated the mode by which agriculture diffused from the Near East to Europe, they have not directly examined similar agropastoral diffusions in Africa. It is unclear, for example, whether early instances of sheep, cows, pottery, and other traits of the pastoralist package were transmitted to southern Africa by demic or cultural diffusion. Here, we report a newly discovered Y-chromosome-specific polymorphism that defines haplogroup E3b1f-M293. This polymorphism reveals the monophyletic relationship of the majority of haplotypes of a previously paraphyletic clade, E3b1-M35*, that is widespread in Africa and southern Europe. To elucidate the history of the E3b1f haplogroup, we analyzed this haplogroup in 13 populations from southern and eastern Africa. The geographic distribution of the E3b1f haplogroup, in association with the microsatellite diversity estimates for populations, is consistent with an expansion through Tanzania to southern-central Africa. The data suggest this dispersal was independent of the migration of Bantu-speaking peoples along a similar route. Instead, the phylogeography and microsatellite diversity of the E3b1f lineage correlate with the arrival of the pastoralist economy in southern Africa. Our Y-chromosomal evidence supports a demic diffusion model of pastoralism from eastern to southern Africa ≈2,000 years ago.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Cro-Magnon people carried haplogroup N:
quote:
Specific mtDNA sites outside HVRI were also analyzed (by amplification, cloning, and sequencing of the surrounding region) to classify more precisely the ancient sequences within the phylogenetic network of present-time mtDNAs (35, 36). Paglicci-25 has the following motifs: +7,025 AluI, 00073A, 11719G, and 12308A. Therefore, this sequence belongs to either haplogroups HV or pre-HV, two haplogroups rare in general but with a comparatively high frequencies among today's Near-Easterners (35). Paglicci-12 shows the motifs 00073G, 10873C, 10238T, and AACC between nucleotide positions 10397 and 10400, which allows the classification of this sequence into the macrohaplogroupN,containing haplogroups W, X, I, N1a, N1b, N1c, and N*. Following the definition given in ref. 36, the presence of a single mutation in 16,223 within HRVI suggests a classification of Paglicci-12 into the haplogroup N*, which is observed today in several samples from the Near East and, at lower frequencies, in the Caucasus (35). It is difficult to say whether the apparent evolutionary relationship between Paglicci-25 and Paglicci-12 and those populations is more than a coincidence. Indeed, the haplogroups to which the Cro-Magnon type sequences appear to belong are rare among modern samples, and therefore their frequencies are poorly estimated. However, genetic affinities between the first anatomically modern Europeans and current populations of the Near East make sense in the light of the likely routes of Upper Paleolithic human expansions in Europe, as documented in the archaeological record (37).
This suggest that haplogroup N was taken to Western Eurasia by the San people=Cro-Magnon.
This makes it clear, to me, that hg N in Africa is not the result of a back mjration.
.
.
Clyde since when did the San carry hg N?
The HadzaII carry hg N see Fig.3:
Tishkoff S A , M. K. Gonder, B. M. Henn, H. Mortensen, A. Knight, C. Gignoux, N. Fernandopulle, G. Lema, T. B. Nyambo, U. Ramakrishnan, et al.(2007).History of Click-Speaking Populations of Africa Inferred from mtDNA and Y Chromosome Genetic Variation. Mol. Biol. Evol., 24(10): 2180 - 2195. [Abstract] [Full Text] [PDF]
This Khoisan group probably represented the Grimaldi who settled Europe as the Cro-Magnon population.
.
Clyde the Hazda of Tanzania are not related to Khoisan other than the similarity in click languages that they speak.
Hadza are predominately haplgroup B which links them to Pygmies whereas the Khoisan are hg A and the Mtdna doesn't link them to the Khoisan either, the Hadza carry L4 and L2 while the Khoisan carry L0d/L0k Mtdna hg.
So again Clyde, since when did the San carry Hg N to bring into Europe?
Tishkoff et al, claim that Hadza II are Khoisan. What evidence do you have to prove Tishkoff et al (2007) is lying?
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Cro-Magnon people carried haplogroup N:
quote:
Specific mtDNA sites outside HVRI were also analyzed (by amplification, cloning, and sequencing of the surrounding region) to classify more precisely the ancient sequences within the phylogenetic network of present-time mtDNAs (35, 36). Paglicci-25 has the following motifs: +7,025 AluI, 00073A, 11719G, and 12308A. Therefore, this sequence belongs to either haplogroups HV or pre-HV, two haplogroups rare in general but with a comparatively high frequencies among today's Near-Easterners (35). Paglicci-12 shows the motifs 00073G, 10873C, 10238T, and AACC between nucleotide positions 10397 and 10400, which allows the classification of this sequence into the macrohaplogroupN,containing haplogroups W, X, I, N1a, N1b, N1c, and N*. Following the definition given in ref. 36, the presence of a single mutation in 16,223 within HRVI suggests a classification of Paglicci-12 into the haplogroup N*, which is observed today in several samples from the Near East and, at lower frequencies, in the Caucasus (35). It is difficult to say whether the apparent evolutionary relationship between Paglicci-25 and Paglicci-12 and those populations is more than a coincidence. Indeed, the haplogroups to which the Cro-Magnon type sequences appear to belong are rare among modern samples, and therefore their frequencies are poorly estimated. However, genetic affinities between the first anatomically modern Europeans and current populations of the Near East make sense in the light of the likely routes of Upper Paleolithic human expansions in Europe, as documented in the archaeological record (37).
This suggest that haplogroup N was taken to Western Eurasia by the San people=Cro-Magnon.
This makes it clear, to me, that hg N in Africa is not the result of a back mjration.
.
.
Clyde since when did the San carry hg N?
The HadzaII carry hg N see Fig.3:
Tishkoff S A , M. K. Gonder, B. M. Henn, H. Mortensen, A. Knight, C. Gignoux, N. Fernandopulle, G. Lema, T. B. Nyambo, U. Ramakrishnan, et al.(2007).History of Click-Speaking Populations of Africa Inferred from mtDNA and Y Chromosome Genetic Variation. Mol. Biol. Evol., 24(10): 2180 - 2195. [Abstract] [Full Text] [PDF]
This Khoisan group probably represented the Grimaldi who settled Europe as the Cro-Magnon population.
.
Clyde the Hazda of Tanzania are not related to Khoisan other than the similarity in click languages that they speak.
Hadza are predominately haplgroup B which links them to Pygmies whereas the Khoisan are hg A and the Mtdna doesn't link them to the Khoisan either, the Hadza carry L4 and L2 while the Khoisan carry L0d/L0k Mtdna hg.
So again Clyde, since when did the San carry Hg N to bring into Europe?
Tishkoff et al, claim that Hadza II are Khoisan. What evidence do you have to prove Tishkoff et al (2007) is lying?
.
Clyde, can you read? I just provided you with the genetic data which ties Hadza to Pygmies on the Y chromosome with hg B, and the Mtdna does not link with Khoisan either.
Btw the connection between Hadza and Khoisan as noted by me above is their language which is spoken in clicks.
Hadza are not Khoisan Clyde sorry.
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
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Clyde since when did the San carry hg N? The HadzaII carry hg N see Fig.3:
Tishkoff S A , M. K. Gonder, B. M. Henn, H. Mortensen, A. Knight, C. Gignoux, N. Fernandopulle, G. Lema, T. B. Nyambo, U. Ramakrishnan, et al.(2007).History of Click-Speaking Populations of Africa Inferred from mtDNA and Y Chromosome Genetic Variation. Mol. Biol. Evol., 24(10): 2180 - 2195. [Abstract] [Full Text] [PDF]
This Khoisan group probably represented the Grimaldi who settled Europe as the Cro-Magnon population.
Clyde the Hazda of Tanzania are not related to Khoisan other than the similarity in click languages that they speak.
Hadza are predominately haplgroup B which links them to Pygmies whereas the Khoisan are hg A and the Mtdna doesn't link them to the Khoisan either, the Hadza carry L4 and L2 while the Khoisan carry L0d/L0k Mtdna hg.
So again Clyde, since when did the San carry Hg N to bring into Europe? Tishkoff et al, claim that Hadza II are Khoisan. What evidence do you have to prove Tishkoff et al (2007) is lying?
. Clyde can you read? I just provided you with the genetic data which ties Hadza to Pygmies on the Y chromosome with hg B, and the Mtdna does not link with Khoisan either.
Btw the connection between Hadza and Khoisan as noted by me above is their language which is spoken in clicks.
Hadza are not Khoisan Clyde sorry. [/QUOTE]
I repeat, Tishkoff et al claim the Hadza are Khoisan. The Hadza carry hg N as illustrated by this figure in their article
Above is the figure. Please explain to us why these researchers are lying when they make this claim in a peer review article.
Also please cite your research that makes the data presented in this figure wrong and you right.
posted
^^Clyde again, the Hadza carry predominately Y hg B, while Khoisan carry predominately Y hg A.
Do you understand this, because it doesn't seem as if you do.
Hadza Mtdna is L4g and L2a1 none of which tie them to San of South Africa either as your image even notes.
Can you provide the exact quote where Tishkoff says the Hadza are closely related to Khoisan?
Assuming it's other than the relationship noted between the click languages!!
P.s. do the board a favor and reduce the size of the image you posted.
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posted
Hg B is a multi-ethnic African deep root Y marker, which even some of the Bushmen tested positive for according to Clyde's cited link. If Clyde's intention is to show Hg N distribution in Africa, then his table certainly seems to be performing that role; if however, it is show Cro-Magnon connection with the southern African Bushmen through this marker, then that doesn't work out here, since the Bushmen groups shown here didn't test positive for one.
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Tishkoff et al, claim that Hadza II are Khoisan. What evidence do you have to prove Tishkoff et al (2007) is lying?
Khoisan is also a language group, which seems to be the context applied here. Some of the phylogenetic constructions are considered by some observers to be tentative, made so primarily due to phonological similarities -- click sounds. I assume you are mostly concerned about the southern African Bushmen(?)
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In reference to the study. Some of the Mtdna sequences noted above not only show high frequency in the Near East but they are also show moderate distribution in East Africa. HV and Pre-HV is basically gathered around the red sea. And many of the "non-African" lineages in Ethiopia dont show matches elsewhere representing deep ancestry.
Richard et al.'s (2003) Extensive Female-Mediated Gene Flow from Sub-Saharan Africa into Near Eastern Arab Population reveals pretty the same thing, and I commented on that a few years back here on ES.
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posted
Are you guys kidding me?!!! come on! Look at what the table/data is telling us.
Twice as many Nigerians(2%) carry mtDNA hg-N than Ethiopians(1%).
In addition 10% of Tanzanians (Turu) carry HG-N.
Not sure who these people are but. . .hg-N seems to be found throughout the continent.. . .and where you least expect it.
I assume these Scientist did due deligence and sampled correctly varifying the authenticity people they were sampling.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Are you guys kidding me?!!! come on! Look at what the table/data is telling us.
Twice as many Nigerians(2%) carry mtDNA hg-N than Ethiopians(1%).
In addition 10% of Tanzanians (Turu) carry HG-N.
Not sure who these people are but. . .hg-N seems to be found throughout the continent.. . .and where you least expect it.
This is important because it shows that hg N had already probably expanded across Africa before it was taken to Eurasia. The existence of hg N among the Hadza implies that hg N in Africa is not the result of a back migration and that hg R is probably of African origin as well.
posted
I always contend that when Africans reached North West Africa they entered Europe(Iberia) soon afterwards through the Straits.
That is the biggest flaw with the Refugium Theory. The bigots forgot that during the ice age the shore-lines recede. They maintained the present politically bigoted shorelines when they drew their map for the LGM.
Entry into Europe most likely took place through the Crete Islands off Libya also. Sheiet!! we know that Africans were an important part of Crete based on the artifacts found there.
I am with you Clyde - Africans made up a major part of European population . . . .especially Southern Europe.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
@ Clyde - The more telling thing to me is. . .it reached tha West Coast of the continent. Which brings up the question of where on the continent it originated.. . .AND . . . the exit route(s).
If these bigots really wanted to get at the truth, about humanity, they should starting doing more studies on North West Africans.
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posted
@ Explorer - following the Trail of Cro-Magnon- North West Africa, Iberia, rest of Europe.
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posted
I am really suprised you vets haven't really dissected this study. Makes me wonder about ones analytical ability. Are we only regurgating stuff without appreciating or understanding it.
y hg - C, F and R are found in Namibia. That is almost 1/3. Substantial amount.
These are OOA or Extra-African markers deep deep inside south West Africa.
This is stunning!!
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y hg - C, F and R are found in Namibia. That is almost 1/3. Substantial amount.
These are OOA or Extra-African markers deep deep inside south West Africa.
This is stunning!! [/QB][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Originally posted by xyyman: [QB] I am really suprised you vets haven't really dissected this study. Makes me wonder about ones analytical ability. Are we only regurgating stuff without appreciating or understanding it.
Hmm, this is the first time I have seen this study. I will pass it off to someone i know and see if we can narrow down this "C, F and R" to see exactly what it is.
Thank you.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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Are you guys kidding me?!!! come on! Look at what the table/data is telling us.
Why would anyone be "kidding you"? Who are these guys kidding you, and why?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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I am really suprised you vets haven't really dissected this study. Makes me wonder about ones analytical ability.
How do you know it hasn't been touched on here; how long have you been here?
quote: Originally posted by xyyman:
Are we only regurgating stuff without appreciating or understanding it.
"Without understanding" what, and as evidenced by what? These claims without specifics make you look like you are just battling against red herrings that you've constructed...well, just to make it seem that you [so you think] are actually saying something intelligent...but they actually do the opposite.
quote:Originally posted by astenb:
Hmm, this is the first time I have seen this study. I will pass it off to someone i know and see if we can narrow down this "C, F and R" to see exactly what it is.
Thank you.
Which shouldn't be too hard, assuming you get access to every cited reference, as the sources are cited right next to the data in question.
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posted
@ Explorer. You are a funny dude. You got jokes.
So set me straight. Been here about two years. Maybe it was discussed before. . .my bad. But was it?
In case you haven't figured it out yet I don't need to "sound" intelligent.. . . .
citing papers is not intelligence. It is how one analyze and process the information/data given.
Quote: "Which shouldn't be too hard, assuming you get access to every cited reference, as the sources are cited right next to the data in question."
Sounds like you have mis-givings about the paper. As Argie would say "why is that?" Explorer/SeKu Toure
AstenB has been here since 2007 and he/she hasn't seen it.
So was it ever posted here . . .Explorer? Or are you blowing smoke?
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Well hey, I tend to make people laugh when they are unable to answer serious questions. It's actually more a reflection of the psychological state of the said target respondent than anything I've said.
quote: So set me straight. Been here about two years. Maybe it was discussed before. . .my bad. But was it?
You made a claim that "veterans missed the study". How do you know this, if as you say, you've only been here for two years?
quote: In case you haven't figured it out yet I don't need to "sound" intelligent.. . . .
In case you haven't figured it out, I already told you how you actually sound.
quote:
citing papers is not intelligence. It is how one analyze and process the information/data given.
Which brings us to the pending corroboration asked of you about "without understanding". Remember that good old' question, which you conveniently dodged.
quote:
Quote: "Which shouldn't be too hard, assuming you get access to every cited reference, as the sources are cited right next to the data in question."
Sounds like you have mis-givings about the paper. As Argie would say "why is that?" Explorer/SeKu Toure
I guess that makes you what: xyyman/"Opie" {family guy character), fittingly so, since you read the above as "mis-givings", by what modicum of rules of reason, is beyond me.
quote: AstenB has been here since 2007 and he/she hasn't seen it.
So was it ever posted here . . .Explorer? Or are you blowing smoke?
Let's find out: Did you read the study you are supposedly talking about. What does it say right next to the data provided that you were bickering and moaning about?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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I am really suprised you vets haven't really dissected this study. Makes me wonder about ones analytical ability. Are we only regurgating stuff without appreciating or understanding it.
y hg - C, F and R are found in Namibia. That is almost 1/3. Substantial amount.
These are OOA or Extra-African markers deep deep inside south West Africa.
This is stunning!!
xxxman/opie, how did the study come up with the results of the markers you are talking about up there?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Those are haplogroups C and all of F-R, i.e., any lineage that ultimately derives from F-M89/F-M213. Not sure what you mean by "That is almost 1/3."
In Namibia the percentages of sample size by population are: * 12% of 18 Damara who are "Khoisan" speakers * _9% of 11 Nama who are "Khoisan" speakers * 29% of 24 Herero who are Niger-Kordofanian speakers * _5% of 22 Ambo who are Niger-Kordofanian speakers
Tishkoff et al (with Lema and Nyambo on the team) do not write anything about C and F-R in either the Y Chromosome or the Discussion sections of their report.
Those schematogram figures in Tishkoff are taken from Wood(2005) in Eur J Hum Genet. 13:867–876 which one must see to ascertain what specific C and F-R markers are involved. Also to see if the low sample size and individual selection is explained to preclude bias, i.e., why the low number of samples, are the samples from city dwellers, etc.
None of this is to wish away the C and F-R but to be clear on what they are and whence their source.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: ...
pg 5, fig 4 -
y hg - C, F and R are found in Namibia. That is almost 1/3. Substantial amount.
These are OOA or Extra-African markers deep deep inside south West Africa.
This is stunning!!
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posted
@ Explorer. Still blowing smoke. BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! BLAH!. . was it posted before?
@ Alk - FIG. 4.—Y chromosome UEP-defined haplogroup frequencies (%) in 30 African population samples, with haplogroup nomenclature as outlined by Y Chromosome Consortium (International Human Genome Sequencing Consortium 2002).
Herero of Namibia sampled 24 total, 71% E3a and 29%(~1/3) C,F-R
Correct me Sage.
I see that you can interpret data better the Explorer.
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the Dama(12%) and Nama(9%) also of Namibia has the the OOA/Pre_European markers. An intelligent person will ask. . .why is that?
Why are these markers in relatively high percentages in these groups and not in others.
as I asked Rasol before - DO WE KNOW THE MIGRATION PATTERNS OF AFRICANS??
Are these people the original settlers of Europe as Clyde are alluding to.
The y markers correlates with the mtDNA?? Why didn't they sample female Herero, Dama and Nama. . .at least I don't see in the table.
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Clyde and other linguist experts may find this interesting.
=====
Contrasting patterns of Y chromosome and mtDNA variation in Africa: evidence for sex-biased demographic processes. Division of Biotechnology, University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ 85721, USA.
To investigate associations between genetic, linguistic, and geographic variation in Africa, we type 50 Y chromosome SNPs in 1122 individuals from 40 populations representing African geographic and linguistic diversity. We compare these patterns of variation with those that emerge from a similar analysis of published mtDNA HVS1 sequences from 1918 individuals from 39 African populations. For the Y chromosome, Mantel tests reveal a strong partial correlation between genetic and linguistic distances (r=0.33, P=0.001) and no correlation between genetic and geographic distances (r=-0.08, P>0.10). In contrast, mtDNA variation is weakly correlated with both language (r=0.16, P=0.046) and geography (r=0.17, P=0.035). AMOVA indicates that the amount of paternal among-group variation is much higher when populations are grouped by linguistics (Phi(CT)=0.21) than by geography (Phi(CT)=0.06). Levels of maternal genetic among-group variation are low for both linguistics and geography (Phi(CT)=0.03 and 0.04, respectively). When Bantu speakers are removed from these analyses, the correlation with linguistic variation disappears for the Y chromosome and strengthens for mtDNA. These data suggest that patterns of differentiation and gene flow in Africa have differed for men and women in the recent evolutionary past. We infer that sex-biased rates of admixture and/or language borrowing between expanding Bantu farmers and local hunter-gatherers played an important role in influencing patterns of genetic variation during the spread of African agriculture in the last 4000 years.
Y-chromosomal diversity in Europe is clinal and influenced primarily by geography, rather than by language.
Clinal patterns of autosomal genetic diversity within Europe have been interpreted in previous studies in terms of a Neolithic demic diffusion model for the spread of agriculture; in contrast, studies using mtDNA have traced many founding lineages to the Paleolithic and have not shown strongly clinal variation. We have used 11 human Y-chromosomal biallelic polymorphisms, defining 10 haplogroups, to analyze a sample of 3,616 Y chromosomes belonging to 47 European and circum-European populations. Patterns of geographic differentiation are highly nonrandom, and, when they are assessed using spatial autocorrelation analysis, they show significant clines for five of six haplogroups analyzed. Clines for two haplogroups, representing 45% of the chromosomes, are continentwide and consistent with the demic diffusion hypothesis. Clines for three other haplogroups each have different foci and are more regionally restricted and are likely to reflect distinct population movements, including one from north of the Black Sea. Principal-components analysis suggests that populations are related primarily on the basis of geography, rather than on the basis of linguistic affinity. This is confirmed in Mantel tests, which show a strong and highly significant partial correlation between genetics and geography but a low, nonsignificant partial correlation between genetics and language. Genetic-barrier analysis also indicates the primacy of geography in the shaping of patterns of variation. These patterns retain a strong signal of expansion from the Near East but also suggest that the demographic history of Europe has been complex and influenced by other major population movements, as well as by linguistic and geographic heterogeneities and the effects of drift.
Can liguistic be used as an indiactor of the ancient migration patterns of Africans? Thus strengthening Wally's premise on Fulani's
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Whoa! This is not a personal status battle. I have no trouble in admitting Explorer is my pastmaster in population genetics. So is Evergreen.
Along with 9/10ths of my library I lost all my notes on population genetics. That puts me at a loss in analysis and interpretation. But, yes, I can still make observations and reserved critique of the reports.
The Herero are only one out of four Namibian populations in the report. You can't separate them out and use them to say all of Namibia amounts to ~1/3 C and F-R. The Namibian total comes to 11 individuals with C and F-R. That's 15%.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: @ Explorer. Still blowing smoke. BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! BLAH!. . was it posted before?
@ Alk - FIG. 4.—Y chromosome UEP-defined haplogroup frequencies (%) in 30 African population samples, with haplogroup nomenclature as outlined by Y Chromosome Consortium (International Human Genome Sequencing Consortium 2002).
Herero of Namibia sampled 24 total, 71% E3a and 29%(~1/3) C,F-R
Correct me Sage.
I see that you can interpret data better the Explorer.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: For those who missed my point on this
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Clyde and other linguist experts may find this interesting.
=====
Contrasting patterns of Y chromosome and mtDNA variation in Africa: evidence for sex-biased demographic processes. Division of Biotechnology, University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ 85721, USA.
To investigate associations between genetic, linguistic, and geographic variation in Africa, we type 50 Y chromosome SNPs in 1122 individuals from 40 populations representing African geographic and linguistic diversity. We compare these patterns of variation with those that emerge from a similar analysis of published mtDNA HVS1 sequences from 1918 individuals from 39 African populations. For the Y chromosome, Mantel tests reveal a strong partial correlation between genetic and linguistic distances (r=0.33, P=0.001) and no correlation between genetic and geographic distances (r=-0.08, P>0.10). In contrast, mtDNA variation is weakly correlated with both language (r=0.16, P=0.046) and geography (r=0.17, P=0.035). AMOVA indicates that the amount of paternal among-group variation is much higher when populations are grouped by linguistics (Phi(CT)=0.21) than by geography (Phi(CT)=0.06). Levels of maternal genetic among-group variation are low for both linguistics and geography (Phi(CT)=0.03 and 0.04, respectively). When Bantu speakers are removed from these analyses, the correlation with linguistic variation disappears for the Y chromosome and strengthens for mtDNA. These data suggest that patterns of differentiation and gene flow in Africa have differed for men and women in the recent evolutionary past. We infer that sex-biased rates of admixture and/or language borrowing between expanding Bantu farmers and local hunter-gatherers played an important role in influencing patterns of genetic variation during the spread of African agriculture in the last 4000 years.
Y-chromosomal diversity in Europe is clinal and influenced primarily by geography, rather than by language.
Clinal patterns of autosomal genetic diversity within Europe have been interpreted in previous studies in terms of a Neolithic demic diffusion model for the spread of agriculture; in contrast, studies using mtDNA have traced many founding lineages to the Paleolithic and have not shown strongly clinal variation. We have used 11 human Y-chromosomal biallelic polymorphisms, defining 10 haplogroups, to analyze a sample of 3,616 Y chromosomes belonging to 47 European and circum-European populations. Patterns of geographic differentiation are highly nonrandom, and, when they are assessed using spatial autocorrelation analysis, they show significant clines for five of six haplogroups analyzed. Clines for two haplogroups, representing 45% of the chromosomes, are continentwide and consistent with the demic diffusion hypothesis. Clines for three other haplogroups each have different foci and are more regionally restricted and are likely to reflect distinct population movements, including one from north of the Black Sea. Principal-components analysis suggests that populations are related primarily on the basis of geography, rather than on the basis of linguistic affinity. This is confirmed in Mantel tests, which show a strong and highly significant partial correlation between genetics and geography but a low, nonsignificant partial correlation between genetics and language. Genetic-barrier analysis also indicates the primacy of geography in the shaping of patterns of variation. These patterns retain a strong signal of expansion from the Near East but also suggest that the demographic history of Europe has been complex and influenced by other major population movements, as well as by linguistic and geographic heterogeneities and the effects of drift.
Can liguistic be used as an indiactor of the ancient migration patterns of Africans? Thus strengthening Wally's premise on Fulani's
Yes. Using comparative and historical linguistics you can determine genetic relationships between languages.
It does support Wally's findings especially in relation to the Fulani, since many researchers note a relationship between Fulani and Egyptians of the 12th Dynasty if I remember.
posted
@ Alk. I respect you and other vets . . including. . Explorer. . .nothing personal bro. . .and yes you guys helped me clarify a few things.
But . . . I guess I have to spoon feed. What I was hoping you guys shed some light on is WHO are the Herero of Namibia also the Dama and Nama. Why do they have such a large percentage of C-F-R lineage compared to their neighbors. Hint - what does migration/linguistics have to do with it. Were they as far north as southern Europe? since they carry the European pre-cusror lineage. Were they overun by the new Bantu migrants? Some studies show that the Bantu carrying E3a started in somehere at the edge of the South East Sahara. Did they, the Bantus, push the older C-groups to the edges ie Namibia/Tanzania.
DO WE KNOW THE ANCIENT MIGRATION PATTERN OF AFRICANS??????
You guys are still way ahead of the curve!!!
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posted
BTW - I did download several versions of the "original" report. Tryiing to find where those numbers came from.
Way ahead of you on that one.. . .
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: @ Alk. I respect you and other vets . . including. . Explorer. . .nothing personal bro. . .and yes you guys helped me clarify a few things.
But . . . I guess I have to spoon feed. What I hoping you guys shed some light on is WHO are the Herero of Namibia also the Dama and Nama. Why do they have such a large percentage of C-F-R lineage compared to their neighbors. Hint - what does migration/linguistics have to do with it. Were they as far north as southern Europe? since they carry the European pre-cusror lineage. Were they overun by the new Bantu migrants? Some studies show that the Bantu carrying E3a started in somehere at the edge of the South East Sahara. Did they, the Bantus, push the older C-groups to the edges ie Namibia/Tanzania.
DO WE KNOW THE ANCIENT MIGRATION PATTERN OF AFRICANS??????
You guys are still way ahead of the curve!!!
Good observation xyyman. This is what Eurocentrists don't want you to do is make observations and connect the dots. Population genetics can be a dangerous weapons in the hands of a man interested in truth instead of supporting the status quo.
I see where you're going with this. The Nama and Dama are Khoisan people. You can not use linguistics to discover a relationship between these people and S. Europe, because the migration of the Khoisan to Europe is far to early to leave any linguistic traces.
Moreover, you have to remember that there were also some pygmy people in Europe long ago. The European stories about the little people who lived in beautiful cities may reflect early conflicts between the Afro-European groups like the Khoisan and the contemporary European type that entered the area after 1200 BC from Anatolia.
posted
As Altk pointed out. I am only speculating at this point. Don't have enough info.
But it is extraordinary to have an indigenous African group carrying such a high percentage of OOA lineage. . .so deep in Africa.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
So why not copy your post below and make it the opening for a new thread? Those interested can ruminate on it there and leave this thread for ol' Cro.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: What I was hoping you guys shed some light on is WHO are the Herero of Namibia also the Dama and Nama. Why do they have such a large percentage of C-F-R lineage compared to their neighbors. Hint - what does migration/linguistics have to do with it. Were they as far north as southern Europe? since they carry the European pre-cusror lineage. Were they overun by the new Bantu migrants? Some studies show that the Bantu carrying E3a started in somehere at the edge of the South East Sahara. Did they, the Bantus, push the older C-groups to the edges ie Namibia/Tanzania.
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posted
While Tishkoff does give at least the haplotypes for the Datog samples classified within C and F-R, the information you're looking for is in the Wood (2005) citation I alerted you to above.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: BTW - I did download several versions of the "original" report. Tryiing to find where those numbers came from.
Way ahead of you on that one.. . .
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posted
Full text of the wood et all study can be found here: Click
Excuse the size but the sampled data can be seen in this image:
The supplemental file was saved and resized but it is a break down of each ethnic group and markers sampled under each language Phylum. This is a clear as the image can get sorry.
ORIGINAL
MODIFIED
The Knight et al data was somewhat useless to me.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
You are one of the smarter ones here.. . . along with Mike and others
"Following the trails of Cro-magnon"?????
Origin? - African C,F-R and mtDNA N . . .you finish it.
hint: Clyde equated Grimaldi=Cromagnon=San
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: So why not copy your post below and make it the opening for a new thread? Those interested can ruminate on it there and leave this thread for ol' Cro.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: What I was hoping you guys shed some light on is WHO are the Herero of Namibia also the Dama and Nama. Why do they have such a large percentage of C-F-R lineage compared to their neighbors. Hint - what does migration/linguistics have to do with it. Were they as far north as southern Europe? since they carry the European pre-cusror lineage. Were they overun by the new Bantu migrants? Some studies show that the Bantu carrying E3a started in somehere at the edge of the South East Sahara. Did they, the Bantus, push the older C-groups to the edges ie Namibia/Tanzania.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: @ Explorer. Still blowing smoke. BLAH! BLAH! BLAH! BLAH!. . was it posted before?
And you still being a byiatch, bickering and moaning. Moaning is not a form an answer, fyi.
You made frivilous charges about people "not understanding", but don't specify what it is people and whom specifically is supposed to not understand what. I can tell you were a flunkie at school with that kind of sub-toddler answer.
You cry on about peopling not "disecting" the study, yet if your ass took the time to actually carefully read the study, you would have noticed that the very piece you were moaning about, has actually been covered before.
quote: I see that you can interpret data better the Explorer.
What data? Observe xxxgirl/opie avoid this request for specifics, with her tail between her legs.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
@ AstenB - Can't make out where the break down came from. I got that study.
. . .Herero of Namibia sampled 24 total, 71% E3a and 29%(~1/3) C,F-R.
Been out of school more than a decade . . .The frequecies don't add up in Appendix A.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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But Whoa! Who are these Herero? Any Africans from that area on this Forum?
Are they indigenous? I assume they are since they were sampled for study.
Is that Hg-I at 8%??? A Scandanavian marker. This is mind blowing!!!
Even the Dama has 6% Hg-I. What is going on here?
@ Explorer - do your thing. Show us what you got. Are the numbers right? Implication??
Following the trail of Cro-Magnon. Were they San?
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posted
I am starting to question your abilities or motive brother. Thought you had this down . . . according to Altk. You sitting on this info for how long?
If these are indigenous African people carry OOA/European markers(at high percentage) what does that tell you?
This should be like a loaded gun. Any time a biggot shows his face around here you pull it out and point it at him/her.. . .assuming they understand what it means. LOL
Not saying that e3b1b1(sp?) is a white bigot - he sounded like Yonis, superior somalid race thing - but when he had you and KIK on jacked up on the "fence" and scrambling for cover. This study should of been pulled out.
Good thing I saved your asses.
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