quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: According to Chimu's post above, Neanderthal's nasal breadth is 32, whereas the mean reported [and remember that the mean hides variability] for one Bantu sample in one study was 27; yet Chimu would interpret the latter's as "platyrrhine", while accepting Neanderthal's as "mesorrhine"? LOL.
One bantu sample. Could be the result of admixture/migration of northern populations. Not a trend. And again. Neanderthal is not leptorrhine, just mesorrhine.
You have yet to show me your population with a trend of leptos.
Out of Howell's entire database, only one sample that was below the Sahara showed leptorrine. And that was a Teita, a north eastern Bantu tribe.
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One bantu sample. Could be the result of admixture/migration of northern populations. Not a trend. And again.
You jumped to conclusion without knowing what sample is being reference. Perhaps, you need to try again, with evidence, to explain why the "Bantu" are not truly representative of the sample, as labeled.
BTW, did I not say time and again, that you insinuate -- not directly saying so, as that would surely lead to requests of evidence thereof, that you cannot produce -- that narrow noses cannot be part of natural African continuum, and that this insinuation seeps out in spurts through your posts?!
quote: You have yet to show me your population with a trend of leptos.
Well, if you want that, then you'll just have to scroll your eyes back to those already given earlier, but with an active mind. Don't simply dismiss them with bad basic geography, scribble over them with your faulty measurements, or select which ones you want to comment on.
quote: Out of Howell's entire database, only one sample that was below the Sahara showed leptorrine. And that was a Teita, a north eastern Bantu tribe.
LOL. I am guessing that the holes in Howell's database is something that you are still in the dark about?
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-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Quote: “Are you then saying that gene divergence sometimes predates population divergence?” You were probably addressing Clyde. But, I am not sure I understand the question. I believe the way it works is, yes, gene divergence occur prior to population divergence. That is why there is an . . . . . “origin”. The mutation(gene divergence) occurs within a group then through demic diffusion there is drift sometimes followed by a purification process, selective sweep, whatever ie formation of a population.
quote:Originally posted by zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova: Are you then saying that gene divergence sometimes predates population divergence?
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Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Really interesting. Also, I had known about the two Grimaldi skeletons but not about the many more such found and that they had been identified as the Bushman / San. Great information:
Above is a picture of Cro-Magnon man, the first anatomically modern European. The first Europeans were the Bushman or Khoisan people.
This is a bushman or San.
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Hottentot
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As I mentioned earlier the Bushman created much of the early civilization of Eurasia. They left us numerous figurines showing their type.
Venus Figurines
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The Bushman continue to carry this ancient form.
The Aurignacian civilization was founded by the Cro-Magnon people who originated in Africa. They took this culture to Western Europe across the Straits of Gibraltar. The Cro-Magnon people were probably Bushman/Khoi.
There have been numerous "Negroid skeletons" found in Europe. Marcellin Boule and Henri Vallois, in Fossil Man, provide an entire chapter on the Africans/Negroes of Europe Anta Diop also discussed the Negroes of Europe in Civilization or Barbarism, pp.25-68. Also W.E. B. DuBois, discussed these Negroes in the The World and Africa, pp.86-89. DuBois noted that "There was once a an "uninterrupted belt' of Negro culture from Central Europe to South Africa" (p.88).
Boule and Vallois, note that "To sum up, in the most ancient skeletons from the Grotte des Enfants we have a human type which is readily comparable to modern types and especially to the Negritic or Negroid type" (p.289). They continue, "Two Neolithic individuals from Chamblandes in Switzerland are Negroid not only as regards their skulls but also in the proportions of their limbs. Several Ligurian and Lombard tombs of the Metal Ages have also yielded evidences of a Negroid element.
Since the publication of Verneau's memoir, discoveries of other Negroid skeletons in Neolithic levels in Illyria and the Balkans have been announced. The prehistoric statues, dating from the Copper Age, from Sultan Selo in Bulgaria are also thought to protray Negroids.
In 1928 Rene Bailly found in one of the caverns of Moniat, near Dinant in Belgium, a human skeleton of whose age it is difficult to be certain, but seems definitely prehistoric. It is remarkable for its Negroid characters, which give it a reseblance to the skeletons from both Grimaldi and Asselar (p.291).
Boule and Vallois, note that "We know now that the ethnography of South African tribes presents many striking similarities with the ethnography of our populations of the Reindeer Age. Not to speak of their stone implements which, as we shall see later , exhibit great similarities, Peringuey has told us that in certain burials on the South African coast 'associated with the Aurignacian or Solutrean type industry...."(p.318-319). They add, that in relation to Bushman art " This almost uninterrupted series leads us to regard the African continent as a centre of important migrations which at certain times may have played a great part in the stocking of Southern Europe. Finally, we must not forget that the Grimaldi Negroid skeletons sho many points of resemblance with the Bushman skeletons". They bear no less a resemblance to that of the fossil Man discovered at Asslar in mid-Sahara, whose characters led us to class him with the Hottentot-Bushman group.
The Boule and Vallois research makes it clear that the Bushman expanded across Africa on into Europe via Spain as the Grimaldi people. This makes it clear that the Bushman/Khoisan people were not isolated in South Africa. The Khoisan people carry the haplogroup N. The Hadza are Bushman they carry haplogroup N.
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Cro-Magnon people carried haplogroup N:
quote:
Specific mtDNA sites outside HVRI were also analyzed (by amplification, cloning, and sequencing of the surrounding region) to classify more precisely the ancient sequences within the phylogenetic network of present-time mtDNAs (35, 36). Paglicci-25 has the following motifs: +7,025 AluI, 00073A, 11719G, and 12308A. Therefore, this sequence belongs to either haplogroups HV or pre-HV, two haplogroups rare in general but with a comparatively high frequencies among today's Near-Easterners (35). Paglicci-12 shows the motifs 00073G, 10873C, 10238T, and AACC between nucleotide positions 10397 and 10400, which allows the classification of this sequence into the macrohaplogroupN,containing haplogroups W, X, I, N1a, N1b, N1c, and N*. Following the definition given in ref. 36, the presence of a single mutation in 16,223 within HRVI suggests a classification of Paglicci-12 into the haplogroup N*, which is observed today in several samples from the Near East and, at lower frequencies, in the Caucasus (35). It is difficult to say whether the apparent evolutionary relationship between Paglicci-25 and Paglicci-12 and those populations is more than a coincidence. Indeed, the haplogroups to which the Cro-Magnon type sequences appear to belong are rare among modern samples, and therefore their frequencies are poorly estimated. However, genetic affinities between the first anatomically modern Europeans and current populations of the Near East make sense in the light of the likely routes of Upper Paleolithic human expansions in Europe, as documented in the archaeological record (37).
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