posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
Where's our resident "angry white man" White Nord? This should piss him off even more! lol

---

Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

M.A. Shaban page 109

http://books.google.com/books?id=Wkqlp-lHllcC&pg=PA109#v=onepage&q=&f=false

"The sudden and conspicuous appearance of the Sudan amongst the armies of Ibn Tulun in Egypt calls for an explanation. Some sources like us to believe that he bought as many as 40,000 Negro slaves and made soldieries out of them to build up an empire of his own. Buying such a number of slaves, let alone training them to be an effective fighting force in a completely unfamiliar territory, would certainly have required more time than the few years that preceded their appearance in Egypt and subsequently in Syria and on the Byzantine borders in the early years of Ibn Tuluns rule 868/884. Other sources more accurately inform us that he enlisted these Sudan in his army"

(Cont) page 110

http://books.google.com/books?id=Wkqlp-lHllcC&pg=PA110#v=onepage&q=&f=false

"We are here concerned with the Zaghawa, the name of a tribe and its territory which bordered the south of the Sahara and extended west from what is now the western Sudan across Chad, Niger and Northern Nigeria to Upper Vota. Through these regions passed an important trade route that started from Ghana and continued all the way to the Egyptian Oasis and then either to the Nile Valley or to Tripolitania.. The good relations with the king of Nubia, who had had his Nubia House in Fustat since the days of Mutasim, provided the solution"

(cont) page 111

http://books.google.com/books?id=Wkqlp-lHllcC&pg=PA111#v=onepage&q=&f=false

"For the Zaghawa the Nubian route was a much safer one that would save them from the hazards of the desert. Once this was established, their increasing presence in Egypt was almost a logical consequence and a clear indication of their interest is widening the scope of their trade. Ibn Tulun would have no objection to such an expansion which could only enhance the wealth of his domains. This common interest created the opportunity for military as well as economic co-operation which explains the enlistment of the Sudan in the army of Egypt"

---

quote:

---

About 1100 Yusuf of Marocco influenced the Negroes, but Timbuktu (refounded 1213) is said to have received Islam from Egypt. It entered Gao, down the Niger, in 1009; Melli about 1025; and Silla fifteen years later. Between 1085 and 1100 Hume, the first king of Bornu, extended Islam almost to Egypt.

---

quote:

---

In the Chad group the Hausa has spread farthest and acquired most usefulness. The vernacular of a numerous people, it offers a valuable medium of communication through vast districts on both sides of the Binwe and the Niger. In extent of use it surpasses all other languages in inner Africa, serving not only as the mother=tongue of millions but as a world=speech between tribes of different languages and between Mediterranean and Sudanese Africa. Hausa is remarkable for simplicity, elegance and wealth of vocabulary. It stands among the world's imperial languages, magnificent, rich and sonorous, beautiful and facile in grammatical structure, enjoying a harmony in the forms of its words and a symphonic symmetry that few tongues can equal, and assured of prolonged existence and vast expansion. It is the Latin of Central Sudan.

---

Posts: 2642 | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Recovering Afro-holic:
This is comical at best. It is so obvious this guy has been indoctrinated by one of the Afrocentrists. Only Afrocentrist "Historians" use the argument that anytime you find light skinned middleeasterners, they are a result of Turks. It is their famous talkin point.

This dude is no different from the some of the "untouchables" who have been indoctrinated by that bald headed Afrocentrist Ray Hagins.

---

Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jari-Ankhamun:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Recovering Afro-holic:
This is comical at best. It is so obvious this guy has been indoctrinated by one of the Afrocentrists. Only Afrocentrist "Historians" use the argument that anytime you find light skinned middleeasterners, they are a result of Turks. It is their famous talkin point.

This dude is no different from the some of the "untouchables" who have been indoctrinated by that bald headed Afrocentrist Ray Hagins.

---

Told you, the cock sucker never fails...LMAO. I would love to see your white ass tell that to these Egyptians faces

---

Posts: 2025 | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
Man!! what a wholly different response from the Cairo response to the same question sometime ago, when asked most of the Carinees say something like they have no connection with Africans..and seem even upset at the question.

---

Posts: 2025 | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Tell them what, that some Afrocentrist (perhaps it's Mr. Kwesi the Afro-nutty Egyptian tour guide) taught them a revisionist form of history? (LOL)

---

Well if the centuries old Euro-indoctrination can be over-come so let it be said so let it be done son!!

Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brada-Anansi:
like they have no connection with Africans..and seem even upset at the question.

---

Posts: 2642 | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

This is entirely because of European colonialism

---

Something Recovering Alcoholic wants to ignore..and no!! I don't believe they the Upper Egyptians needed prodding to remember who they are they do not seem confuse by their complexion or features,all they had to do was look in a mirrior,but I have always said Egyptians needed to have this conversation amongst themselves..like we did 40~50 yrs ago..maybe they will throw out products like Ponds bleeching cream..and balance out their Movie stars with some dark-skinned folks..remember we were not soo different anytime before the 50ts,60ts and 70ts ask grandma.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoubYDQh41s ..
Ah know I-am being silly^..

Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Today most natives of the United Arab Republic of Eygpt consider themselves (thanks to European colonials) representative of the indigenous people of ancient Egypt . However, it is clear that less than a century ago this was not the case. Most of the agriculturalists in Egypt had absorbed for centuries the incoming Bedouins of the Arabian peninsula who were according to most accounts dark or brown and the same color as the indigenous Egyptians, as well as large numbers of slaves in early days from Asia and later mostly African and Slavic slaves.

---

Posts: 2642 | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

In 1811 Mohammed Ali, a high ranking Albanian army officer serving the Ottoman Empire ousted the Governor of Egypt and appointed himself ruler. He remained nominally under Ottoman authority and was carefully observed by the British, who were determined to strengthen their position in North Africa. To begin with, Mohammed Ali pursued an independent domestic and foreign policy.

"Egypt may now almost be said to form part of Europe. It is on the high road to the Far East. It can never cease to be an object of interest to all the powers of Europe, and especially to England…"....

In 1820, with the encouragement of Britain, Mohammed Ali invaded Sudan in search of slaves and to keep his army occupied. The Funj sultanate was deposed. Southern Sudan was devastated and the Dinka still refer to the invasion as 'The time when the earth was spoilt'. Sudan was now under Egyptian rule.....

BRITISH PRESSURE & THE CANAL
For the first time Egypt had a growing number of Egyptians in its army (as opposed to foreign mercenaries). The British became anxious that Egypt was becoming too strong a force in the region. In 1838 they compelled Mohammed Ali to reduce his army and drop his protectionist trade policies. As a result, Egypt became flooded with British goods and local industry collapsed.

---

quote:

---

Italian economist Loria:

"The appointment of such a commission literally amounts in the end, however, to a veritable conquest. We have examples of this in Egypt, which has to all practical purposes become a British province, and in Tunis, which has in like manner become a dependency of France, who supplied the greater part of the loan. The Egyptian revolt against the foreign domination issuing from the debt came to nothing, as it met with invariable opposition from capitalistic combinations, and Tel-el-Kebir's success, bought with money, was the most brilliant victory wealth has ever obtained on the field of battle."*18"

I.IV.29

But, though useful to explain certain economic facts, the terms "creditor" and "debtor," as applied to countries, obscure the most significant feature of this Imperialism. For though, as appears from the analysis given above, much, if not most, of the debts are "public," the credit is nearly always private, though sometimes, as in the case of Egypt, its owners succeed in getting their Government to enter a most unprofitable partnership, guaranteeing the payment of the interest, but not sharing in it.

---

Posts: 2642 | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

I'm a little surprised that those Egyptians knew so much about their history, especially the European component

---

Posts: 495 | From: anchorage, alaska | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by ausar:
You might be suprised how many Lower and Upper Egyptians see the Nubians to be the best representation of the ancient Egyptians. The indigenouness of the Cairene Egyptians ultimately depends which part of Egypt they come from. Even if an Egyptian hails from a particular part of Egypt does not make them immune from foreign ancestry. However, the Egyptians from rural areas in Middle and Upper Egypt tend to have less foreign ancestry.


I personally have found little data supporting that either Mameluke/Turkish ancestry had much effect on the modern Egyptian population. From what I have read it appears the pre-Islamic foreign element is what lead to the admixture in modern Egyptians.

Let me clarify also that its not an Afrocentric notion to say that the modern Cairene and Delta Egyptians are foreign. Many early Egyptologist felt this way and often wrote about it in their writings. Most believed this to be fact. It would not suprise me if there are villages in the Delta filled with people that desend from Egyptianized foreigners. It was even the case back in pharoanic times because much of the southern Egyptians could not understand the dialect of the Delta Egyptians. What are we to make of the presence of reykt birds binded. Diop believed these people to be foreigners.


Sorry if I rambled on. As an Egyptian I felt like I should say something.

---

Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by ausar:
Many of the same people who deny African links are unaware of the secret folk culture that exists amongst the rural and poor urban class of modern Egyptians. Its unfortunate that outside/inside Egypt this fact is not well known either. Even Molefi Assante, the spear head of Afrocentrism, failed to mention this

Moustafa Gadalla expounds upon this. I wouldn't recommend him as an unbiased source but he covers aspects of modern Egypt not explored by academic Egyptologists.

---

Posts: 8805 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                         

quote:

---

Many of the same people who deny African links are unaware of the secret folk culture that exists amongst the rural and poor urban class of modern Egyptians.

---

Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by abdulkarem3:
click modern egyptians explaining their identity

---

quote:

---

Fifteen different p49a,f TaqI haplotypes are present in Egypt, the three most common being haplotype V (39.4%), haplotype XI (18.9%), and haplotype IV (13.9%). Haplotype V is a characteristic Arab haplotype, with a northern geographic distribution in Egypt in the Nile River Valley. Haplotype IV, characteristic of sub-Saharan populations, shows a southern geographic distribution in Egypt.

Haplotypes V, XI, and IV are the main Y-chromosome- specific haplotypes in Egyptian males detected in the present study. Haplotype V is characteristic of Arab and Berber populations of North Africa (Lucotte et al., 2000), where it defines a major similarity among coastal populations in a one-dimensional pattern: the frequency of haplotype V is 53.4% in Tunisia, 56.7% in Algeria, and 57.9% in Morocco, reaching 68.9% among Moroccan Berbers where it is in the wide majority; the frequency of haplotype V is 44.7% in Libya, and was established to be 40.4% in a previously studied population of 52 males originating from the northern part of Egypt (Lucotte et al., 2000). Haplotype XI is one of the three most important haplotypes found in Ethiopia (Passarino et al., 1998; Lucotte and Smets, 1999), where it attains 25.9% in frequency. Haplotype IV is characteristic of sub-Saharan populations in Africa (Torroni et al., 1990; Spurdle and Jenkins, 1992), where its geographical distribution can be an indication of Bantu expansion: for example, in Central Africa (Lucotte et al., 1994), the frequency of haplotype IV is 55.2% in Cameroon, and reaches 80.3% in Zaıre and up to 83.9% in the Central African Republic.

---

quote:

---

The most common variants found in different studies of Egypt collectively are, in descending frequency, V, XI, IV, VII, VIII, XV, and XII (Table 2A). The first three of these are of greatest interest due to their frequencies. Haplotype V, sometimes called "Arabic" (Lucotte and Mercier 2003a) declines from lower Egypt (north) at 51.9%, to upper Egypt (24.2%), and to lower Nubia (south) at 17.4%. Haplotypes VII, VIII, XV, and XII also decline (Table 1). In contrast, haplotypes XI and IV, called "southern," with IV being labeled "sub-Saharan," have their lowest frequencies in lower Egypt (XI-11.7%; IV-1.2%), but increase in upper Egypt (XI-28.8%; IV-27.3%); and lower Nubia (XI-30.4%; IV-39.1%); there is no statistically significant difference between the latter two regions (Lucotte and Mercier 2003a). Haplotypes VII and VIII are most prevalent in the Near East, and XII and XV in Europe.
It is important to address the appellation of "Arabic" for haplotype V, due to names being interpreted as indicators of origins, and the inconsistencies found in the literature. This variant is found in very high frequencies in supra-Saharan countries and Mauretania (collective average 55.0%), and in Ethiopia (average 45.8%) (Table 2A). In specific groups its highest prevalence is in samples from Moroccan Amazigh (Berbers) (68.9%) and Ethiopian Falasha (60.5%). Its frequency is considerably less in the Near East, and decreases from west (Lebanon, 16.7%) to east (Iraq, 7.2%) ([url=http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/history_in_africa/v032/32.1keita.html#tab02ATable 2A[/url]). The label "Arabic" for V is therefore misleading because it suggests a Near Eastern origin. In fact this variant has been called "African" (Lucotte et al. 1993:839, Lucotte et al. 1996:469), and "Berberian" (Lucotte et al. 2001:887).

---

Now Haplotypes VII, VIII, XII and XV are foreign, and they account for almost 30% of Northern Egyptian male ancestry.

Posts: 385 | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chimu:
Some admixture occurred, but not a replacement.

---

Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chimu:

People with even less African ancestry can still be relatively dark, so how do you explain the much lighter populations? Northern Egyptians sure don't look like Dominicans. (Who mitochondrially have more non-African ancestry than Egyptians have on their Y-Chromosome)

Unless the Egyptians of the area already looked somewhat like they do today as well. Maybe slightly darker, but not that marked. And considering the maternal side has to be lower, I doubt they even have 20% non African ancestry.

---

Using your logic, one will figure that these folks, claimed to have recent sub-Saharan [the first set presumably implicating Somali ancestry, per Yonis who posted them here] ancestry, should not look the way they do:








Others:


^Of Ghanaian and Scottish ancestry


^Of Nigerian and Finnish ancestry


^Of Ghanaian and English ancestry


^Of Senegalese and English ancestry


^Of Senegalese and Swedish ancestry

The above set + info, courtesy of ES poster gilgameshx/humanity.

Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by White Nord:
In North Africa, J1 first entered Ethiopia with the spread of Semitic speakers Eritrea (11%), Ethiopia (9%), Ethiopia-Amhara (33.3%). It spread later to North Africa in historic times (as identified by the motif YCAIIa22-YCAIIb22; Algerians 35.0%, Tunisians 31%), where it became something like a marker of the Arab expansion in the early medieval period. J1 also seems to be found with high frequency in the northern parts of Sudan (Arabs 45%, Nubians 41%, Copts 39%, Beja 36% ), and present with lower frequency in the region of Darfur (Masalit 6%, Fur 6%). Haplogroup J1 may be found in as many as 20% of Egyptian males, with the frequency of this haplogroup tending to be comparatively high in the south of the country.

http://dirkschweitzer.net/E3b-papers/Hassan-Sudan-2008-AJPA.pdf

Hisham Y. Hassan et al., "Y-Chromosome Variation Among Sudanese: Restricted Gene Flow, Concordance With Language, Geography, and History," American Journal of Physical Anthropology (2008). J-12f2(xJ2-M172) in 46/102 Sudanese Arabs of the Gaalien, Meseria, and Arakien tribes, 16/39 Nubians, 13/33 Copts, 15/42 Beja, 2/32 Masalit, and 2/32 Fur.

Above is debunking such findings by Keita that the Lower Egyptian, Upper Egyptian, and Lower Nubian Haplotypes are "mostly Africans". Once again dumb fucks Africans even further South than modern Egyptians are heavily mixed WITH BLACK SKIN. So to say that they are a representative of their ancient ancestors but the light skinned egyptians aren't is fucking retarded and hypocritical!

---

Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by astenb:
One study doesn't debunk another study dumb ****. Its not like they are sampling the SAME PEOPLE.

---

Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Explorer:
LOL @ percentages of "admixture" in celebrity figures. My friend, anyone who is human has got to have more than 99% African component! If not, then that person is not a HUMAN!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Explorer:
[QB] Just to add one more thing...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chimu:

People with even less African ancestry can still be relatively dark, so how do you explain the much lighter populations? Northern Egyptians sure don't look like Dominicans. (Who mitochondrially have more non-African ancestry than Egyptians have on their Y-Chromosome)

Unless the Egyptians of the area already looked somewhat like they do today as well. Maybe slightly darker, but not that marked. And considering the maternal side has to be lower, I doubt they even have 20% non African ancestry.

---

Using your logic, one will figure that these folks, claimed to have recent sub-Saharan [the first set presumably implicating Somali ancestry, per Yonis who posted them here] ancestry, should not look the way they do:

---

Oh you mean the kids of Ethiopians, Eritreans and Somalis that already show heavy middle eastern admixture? Already saw them.

The trick would be to test those kids and how much admixture from each region they already had. That is like claiming she is half African.

Posts: 385 | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chimu:

Strawman as we are speaking of genetic markers since the OOA occurrence.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Explorer:

Oh you mean the kids of Ethiopians, Eritreans and Somalis that already show heavy middle eastern admixture? Already saw them.

---

quote:

---

The trick would be to test those kids and how much admixture from each region they already had. That is like claiming she is half African.

---

Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by AswaniAswad:

GlobalAfrikanSupremacy what do u consider black most egyptians who are darkskinned are in more similar complextion and skin tone as Northern sudanese eritreans ethiopians than they are to the rest of africa as well as african-americans.

---

Not according to this:

Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | 

posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Explorer:
The same could be asked of your highly selective photo spams of Black American celebrity figures, and of your assessment about the impossibility of gene flow into Northern Egypt enough to modify the facial phenotypes of the populations therein. The photos of the folks with "mixed" geographical ancestry are presumably first generation progeny of such unions. What does that mean to you?

---

Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged |