posted
He is interrupted it seems and says that he is finished.
However, one thing to note is that his presentation was definitely not ambiguous in pointing out that white racist scholarship from the 19th century onwards is the basis of much "confusion" and misrepresentation about the ethno biological relationships of the ancient Egyptian population. Also notice that even though this symposium is on Egypt in its African context, very little of it has been published until now. But there are a growing number of such events which are in no uncertain terms, forcing modern Egyptology to actually reference valid up to date science and scholarship which overwhelmingly affirms the African identity and origin of ancient Egypt. Other conferences address Egyptology as a discipline "unto itself" as problematic since you cannot divorce the study of Egypt from the fields of linguistics, ethno-biology, archaeology and anthropology, forcing the field to acknowledge the 18th and 19th century biases behind such a framework.
quote: Conference notes: Disciplinary Measures? Disciplinary Measures? Histories of Egyptology in Multi-Disciplinary Context ... The scope for the conference was quite broad and resulted in a mixture of papers on loosely related topics with a common theme of the history of the discipline. Here's the introductory blurb:
'Disciplinary Measures?' aims to provide a discussion forum for the increasing number of people working on the history (or histories) of the discipline of Egyptology. The conference is not limited to Egyptologists. Rather, it seeks to set the multiple histories of Egyptology in the broader, multi-disciplinary context of recent studies such as Whose Pharaohs? by Donald Reid, Conflicted Antiquities by Elliott Colla and Wondrous Curiosities by Stephanie Moser. The conference aims to stimulate critique and constructive dialogue between those from various disciplines.
Not only that books are even being written focusing on the labor pools of Egyptian workers who did the heavy lifting in exposing Egyptian artifacts and often got ignored as irrelevant. Which is not unsurprising as even today Africans looking no different than other blacks in the diaspora can be seen laboring at ancient Egyptian excavation sites and therefore would have been unimportant to those racists whose sole aim was to recover ancient remains of a lost "white" culture.
posted
What is interesting too is that Keita points out that several accounts of the 19th century recognized the African roots of ancient Egypt. These accounts were whitewashed away as the "Aryan" type/Hamitic Hypothesis model took hold in the field. Keita went back and read old excavation reports and in them workers clearly describe African samples- later reclassified as something else, such as "Mediterranean" in "official" final write-ups.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
Keita also notes what he calls dishonesty, laziness and inconsistency among geneticists in vids 3 and 4.
For example, one genetic study (I think he says Guinea Bissau but audio is scrambled) claimed the Fulani were descendants of th ancient Hyskos! Keita says he emailed the author, who stated he got an old reference from a book published in 1940! In other words, the author did no recent review of scholarship in the field, but used the obsolete reference as window dressing to hang on a skewed DNA analysis. This is the same pattern Keita noted years ago with Cavalli-Sforza, who in one 1990s study, quickly referenced an old 1962 Encyclopedia article on the Ethiopians as "white people with black skin"- again, doing no serious review of current knowledgein the field. The old reference however served as cover for the particular ideological agenda in mind. Again and again, this is the pattern one sees among geneticists in the field- the sleight of hand, the misleading labeling, the stacked decks... Does anyone have the exact study Keita was talking about with the magical "Hyskos" ancestry of the Fulani?
Another example Keita gives is the Afro-asiatic languages. Keita calls debate on their origin "laughable". Using standard hardcore lingusitic criteria their origin is in Africa, and this too is backed by archaeological data. The minority holdouts for an Asiatic Keita suggests are holding out for ideological reasons. Heaven forbid that it should be said that Semitic, the Jewish language along with that of Arabs and others, originated in Africa. And heaven forbid that linguistics should show numerous peoples of Africa sepaking this language group are in fact speaking an African origin language and not that of magically migrating "Cacusoids" or "Eurasians."
Keita then gives another example of U6 haplogroup. He notes that many standard references say humans left Africa around 50,000 years ago. Yet one genetic study puts the emergence time of U6 at 60,000 years ago, and then goes on to label U6 as "Eurasian." If U6 was in place 60,000 years ago in Africa, and 10,000 years later people in Africa started to migrate, doesn't that make U6 of African origin? Why then, Keita asks, do assorted geneticists continue to use misleading labeling in their studies- obscuring the true origin of U6? Again I did not catch the study he named, Torr something. Can anyone shed any light on the U6 matter and the dates in question, and on the origin of U6 that Keita mentions? What about further breakdowns such as U6a? Where does this occur most?
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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Will post in ESR if I come across it.
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posted
Great reference. Unbelievable. So they are using this dubious 1940s ref to bolster their DNA study.. No wonder Keita can only shake his head. According to one of the pages:
"..puts forward as a suggestion that the same migrations of Hindu origin may have given us the Hyskos, the gypsies and the Fulani."
Sheesh.. who else? Vikings? Japanese ninjas? Jewish cattle herders? Hell why not? ---------
PS:
can you also give a good concise reference showing the mtDNA breakdown in Egypt?
Thanks
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
The video is a keeper. To be downloaded and saved on DVD.
Watched all 5 parts. Wish they had shown the slides he was pointing to.
One thing that stood out to me. Did he imply that blond hair and blue eyes are indigenous to coastal berber speaking people? I believe light brown skin is because it fits the latitudal UV intensity pattern. But Blue eyes and blond hair?
He made some great points. Notable: Any markers that are older than 50kya(or there abouts) is probably African. Since man left Africa only about 50kya.
@ Zarahan. Misunderstood your question. After looking at the video I realized you are asking for the genetic study. Will post on ESR if I come across it.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Are you saying the migration of the Fulani was NOT from East to West? Because this is what they are saying. They are sayingthe Hyksos(Fulani) were driven out from Egypt and forced Westward.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Assume you got this already from GOOGLE:
posted
Not sure this is it but full study posted on ESR.
Caucasians returning to Africa 50kya. LOL!!! These people are too hilarious.
Quote from the study:
Recently, molecular genetic research on North African populations has contributed new data to test the major issues proposed on archaeological, anthropological and linguistic grounds. The studies based on uniparental genetic markers have been particularly informative. Both, mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequences [4,5], and Y-chromosome binary markers [6,7] detected specific North African haplotypes that confirm an ancient human colonization for this area and a sharp discontinuity between Northwest Africa and the Iberian Peninsula. From a mtDNA point of view, the most informative of these genetic markers is the North African clade U6. On the basis of complete mtDNA sequences, it has been proposed that U6 lineages, mainly found in North Africa, are the signatures of a return to Africa around *****39,000–52,000 ya [8].***** This stresses the importance of its detailed study in order to trace one of the earliest Caucasian arrivals to Africa. Although in moderate frequencies, the geographic range of this clade extends from the Near East to the Canary Islands, along the Atlantic shores of Northwest Africa and from the Sahel belt, including Ethiopia, to the southern Mediterranean rim. Out of this area, U6 has only been spotted in the Iberian Peninsula [9-12], Sicily [13], in the north European Ashkenazic Jews [14], and in Ibero-America. The presence in the latter is, most probably, the result of the Spanish and Portuguese colonization [15,16].
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-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
^Agreed. We need a balanced package of analysis. What is the actual cited reference and author for the U6 study above?
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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Mitochondrial DNA transit between West Asia and North Africa inferred from U6 phylogeography Nicole Maca-Meyer,1 Ana M González,1 José Pestano,2 Carlos Flores,1 José M Larruga,1 and Vicente M Cabrera1
Background World-wide phylogeographic distribution of human complete mitochondrial DNA sequences suggested a West Asian origin for the autochthonous North African lineage U6. We report here a more detailed analysis of this lineage, unraveling successive expansions that affected not only Africa but neighboring regions such as the Near East, the Iberian Peninsula and the Canary Islands. Results Divergence times, geographic origin and expansions of the U6 mitochondrial DNA clade, have been deduced from the analysis of 14 complete U6 sequences, and 56 different haplotypes, characterized by hypervariable segment sequences and RFLPs. Conclusions The most probable origin of the proto-U6 lineage was the Near East. Around 30,000 years ago it spread to North Africa where it represents a signature of regional continuity. Subgroup U6a reflects the first African expansion from the Maghrib returning to the east in Paleolithic times. Derivative clade U6a1 signals a posterior movement from East Africa back to the Maghrib and the Near East. This migration coincides with the probable Afroasiatic linguistic expansion. U6b and U6c clades, restricted to West Africa, had more localized expansions. U6b probably reached the Iberian Peninsula during the Capsian diffusion in North Africa. Two autochthonous derivatives of these clades (U6b1 and U6c1) indicate the arrival of North African settlers to the Canarian Archipelago in prehistoric times, most probably due to the Saharan desiccation. The absence of these Canarian lineages nowadays in Africa suggests important demographic movements in the western area of this Continent.
And
===
Recently, molecular genetic research on North African populations has contributed new data to test the major issues proposed on archaeological, anthropological and linguistic grounds. The studies based on uniparental genetic markers have been particularly informative. Both, mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequences [4,5], and Y-chromosome binary markers [6,7] detected specific North African haplotypes that confirm an ancient human colonization for this area and a sharp discontinuity between Northwest Africa and the Iberian Peninsula. From a mtDNA point of view, the most informative of these genetic markers is the North African clade U6. On the basis of complete mtDNA sequences, it has been proposed that U6 lineages, mainly found in North Africa, are the signatures of a return to Africa around *****39,000–52,000 ya [8].***** This stresses the importance of its detailed study in order to trace one of the earliest Caucasian arrivals to Africa. Although in moderate frequencies, the geographic range of this clade extends from the Near East to the Canary Islands, along the Atlantic shores of Northwest Africa and from the Sahel belt, including Ethiopia, to the southern Mediterranean rim. Out of this area, U6 has only been spotted in the Iberian Peninsula [9-12], Sicily [13], in the north European Ashkenazic Jews [14], and in Ibero-America. The presence in the latter is, most probably, the result of the Spanish and Portuguese colonization [15,16].
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Looking at the Nat Geo site. It proposes that modern man left Africa 50kyo and went East. ie away from Europe.
Modern man entered Europe about 35kya. So can the people from the Caucas Mountains be re-entering Africa anytime prior to that.
Caucasians= junk science. Wasn't it Doc Sci who coined the phrase: "Europeans did not even contribute to their own gene pool. " here we have a people who did not exist entering a continent.
Asians re-entering Africa is a better premise. Where is Gigantic the "Caucasian"?
BTW: wouldn't that make ALL genetic markers older than 35Kya non-European. Which includes R1b1b(?) and mt-DNA N(?)
Logic is a bitch!!
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: The video is a keeper. To be downloaded and saved on DVD.
Watched all 5 parts. Wish they had shown the slides he was pointing to.
One thing that stood out to me. Did he imply that blond hair and blue eyes are indigenous to coastal berber speaking people? I believe light brown skin is because it fits the latitudal UV intensity pattern. But Blue eyes and blond hair?
He made some great points. Notable: Any markers that are older than 50kya(or there abouts) is probably African. Since man left Africa only about 50kya.
@ Zarahan. Misunderstood your question. After looking at the video I realized you are asking for the genetic study. Will post on ESR if I come across it.
No, in regard to your question on blonde hair and blue eyes found among some Berber groups. He's saying that while these people have obtained certain physical characteristics from non-African groups, they remain predominantly African and more related to other African groups. I actually had a conversation with Keita in which he mentioned that he believed that a large portion of the current non-African admixture among the Berbers/Arabs is due to more recent or historic admixture, and that due to certain social patterns these groups bred out features associated with ancestral North African groups and bred in features in affiliation with the elite non-African population. Therefore an increase of such things such as blonde hair without any additional non-African admixture.
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posted
Here is something for the Linguist, Dr Winters et al.
Seems Dr Winter's is not the only or first person pushing this Mande thing. I don't understand Linguistics but . . . is the Basque language and African language?
She is stating, back in the 1920s, that Fulani language is a daughter of Bantu. And that the Hamitic Languages and Bantu are siblings. Thoughts?
AND ====== ==
OUTLINE OF A LEXICOSTATISTICAL STUDY OF BASQUE AND THE MANDE LANGUAGES, WITH A NOTE ON FULA Hans G. MUKAROVSKY This paper does not claim to be a com- leted piece of work, but is simply a piece of information. So I have drafte 1 ale following limes rather quickly, just to give you an idea about this topic. Lexicostatistics have been applied to Basque and various languages, but scarcely to languages of Africa. The Mande Languages form a coherent linguistic unit in West Africa. They number 30 to 40 distinct languages, or dialect clusters, and are spread from eastern Senegal to western Upper Volta, scattered groups being found still further eastward. Their speakers number several millions. They constitute the majority of the population in the Gambia, and foremost in Mali, and form important groups in several other West African countries. Speakers of northern Mande Languages have, in the Middle Ages, formed the great Empires of Ghana and Mali, known to European geographers before the discovery of West Africa by sea. We may assume that they were descendants of an old Saharan population which has been driven southward by progressive desiccation.{THIS IS A COMMON THEME] As they had moved into the Western Sahel and Savannah some• of them penetrated the rain forest zone. The Mande Languages were classified, in my opinion wrongly, among the Nigritic languages which cover the largest part of Africa south of the Sahara. In fact this view has already been abandoned by a part of Africanists. Others cling to the idea, that Mande has seperated first, before any other linguistic entity, from the Common Nigritic stock. In any case the Mande Languages are fairly different, in lexis as in structure, from the 'Nigritic' Languages of West Africa. I have tried to relate these languages to Basque as long time ago as 1964, but have not found much esteem for this idea. So I have left the question where it was and began to enlarge the field of comparison. The results of a [1] 199 HANS G. MUKAROVSKY lexicostatistical test undertaken in 1966 convinced me that Mande must be related to Hamito-Semitic, and that it is closer to Cushitic und Chadic than to its northern branches Berber and Semitic. In a later study I have demonstrated, in 1972, that the common numeral system of the Mande languages strongly resembles to that of Central Cushitic. Asserting the relationship of a group of West African with other African languages is not queer, but simply a case that has to be proven. The question is whether the proofs given are considered as valid and sufficient. But for us it involves-another conclusion. If we accept that Basque is related to Hamito- Semitic it will follow that Basque is also related to Mande, whatever the level of that relationship is. Of course it should be higher than that of a simple family. This relationship can, however, become visible by applying lexicostatistics.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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more ==== Comparative studies of the Mande Languages are not yet advanced very far. We cannot exclude at present that some similarities will turn out to be only superficial, and due to sheer coincidence. But certainly a certain percentage of them are valid, and sufficient to prove genetic relationship to Basque. But perhaps you are puzzled how West African languages can display similarities to Basque to such an extent. I assume that the Mande Languages form another branch of the Macro-Erythraic linguistic network, just so as does Hamito-Semitic. Geographically their area is situated still nearer to South-Western Europe than any branch of Hamito-Semitic except Berber which has spread to the West of North Africa only from the second millenium B. C. on, while Mande has probably been spoken further in the North than it is to-day. This has led me to assume the existence of a linguistic family which I have proposed to call Euro-Saharan,****Ha! ha! ha! *****and which would have been a Western sister family of Hamito-Semitic. Basque and its relatives in Western Europe which have become extinct, as well as Mande and other African languages once spoken in North Africa and in the Saharan area were its members. Note on Fula. There exist, and have to be still explored in this respect, other African languages which are related to Basque. I shall conclude chis paper by a short note on one of them. Fula (or Peul in French terminology) is a very far-spread West African languages, spoken by several millions of people from the Senegal River to the East of Lake Chad. It is absolutedly not related to Mande on a recognizable level, and its alleged relations to other languages of.West Africa are uncertain. It forms a closer linguistic unit only with two other Senegalian languages, Wolof and Serer.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: I don't follow.
Are you saying the migration of the Fulani was NOT from East to West? Because this is what they are saying. They are sayingthe Hyksos(Fulani) were driven out from Egypt and forced Westward.
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Assume you got this already from GOOGLE:
They made this mistake because they believe the Fulani migrated eastward when the migration was from Nubia to West Africa.
.
They claim the Fulani migrated from Egypt into the Sudan. The migration was from the Sudan into Egypt.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
To me, even though he's fully credentialed, Mukarovsky sounds like a duck: quack quack.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Correct me if I am wrong. I have heard Dr Winters singing that song since I joined this forum. I thought he was the ONLY one. Now I posted a piece by a "respected white" scholar who about 50ya basically said that the Basque Language is African.
I just stumbled on this paper doing research on something else
Quote: ===== But perhaps you are puzzled how West African languages can display similarities to Basque to such an extent. I assume that the Mande Languages form another branch of the Macro-Erythraic linguistic network, just so as does Hamito-Semitic. Geographically their area is situated still nearer to South-Western Europe than any branch of Hamito-Semitic except Berber which has spread to the West of North Africa only from the second millenium B. C. on, while Mande has probably been spoken further in the North than it is to-day. This has led me to assume the existence of a linguistic family which I have proposed to call Euro-Saharan,****Ha! ha! ha! *****and which would have been a Western sister family of Hamito-Semitic. Basque and its relatives in Western Europe which have become extinct, as well as Mande and other African languages once spoken in North Africa and in the Saharan area were its members. Note on Fula. There exist, and have to be still explored in this respect, other African languages which are related to Basque. I shall conclude chis paper by a short note on one of them.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: As far as I know all this DravidianAfrican ethnology's biggest proponent was Lillian(?) Homburger decades ago.
This was true until Dravidian scholars took up the theme in the 1970's.
. Many Indian researchers believe that they originated in Africa. B.B. Lal, who did research in Nubia and India, is sure that the Dravidians were related to the C-Group of Nubia (see: Lal, B , "The Only Asian expedition in threatened Nubia:Work by an Indian Mission at Afyeh and Tumas", The Illustrated London Times , 20 April 1963).
Researchers have found a high frequency of the 9bp deletion in the M macrohaplogroup including unclassified M* (Thangaraj et al, 2008). Thangaraj et al. (2008) note that 60% of the Indians carry one of the M Macrogroup lineages including unclassified hg M*. These researchers note that among these Indians the typical transitions of 9bp were 16311. . The typical transitions for African 9bp are 16311,16223 and 16189. The 9bp transition at 16311 are congruent among Dravidians and West Africans.
There are a number of shared African and Indian Y-chromosome haplotypes. These haplotypes include Y-hg T-M70 and H1. Haplogroup T-M70 is found among several Dravidian speaking tribal groups in South India, including the Yerukul (or Kurru) , Gonds and Kols. Y-haplogroup T-M70 is found in the eastern and southern regions of India (Trivedi et al, 2008). It has a relatively high frequency in Uttar Pradesh and Madhya Pradesh (Sharma et al, 2008). Sharma et al (2008) in a study of 674 Dalits found that 89.39 % belonged to Y-hg K*, in relation to Dravidian speakers it was revealed that Y-hg T-M70 was 11.1%. Trevedi et al (2008) report that Y-hg T-M70 is predominately found among Upper Caste Dravidians at a frequency of 31.9. The highest frequency of T-M70 in the World is found among the Fulani (18%) of West Africa.
In addition to the anthropological/archaeological evidence other researchers note a genetic relationship between Dravidian and African languages. These studies include the following:
Aravanan, K P , "Physical and cultural similarities between Dravidians and Africans", Journal of Tamil Studies 10,(1976)pages 23-27.
Aravanan, K P , Dravidians and Africans , Madras, 1979.
N'Diaye, C T, Vers une theorie du Sino-Africaine , Dakar,1972. Mimeo.
Aravanan,K.P. Notable negroid elements in Dravidian India, Journal of Tamil Studies, 1980, pp.20-45.
Lahovary, N , Dravidian Origins and the West, Madras: Longman,1957.
N'Diaye, C.T. The relationship between Dravidian languages and Wolof. Annamalai University Ph.D. Thesis.1978.
Upadhyaya,P & Upadhyaya,S.P., Les liens entre Kerala et l"Afrique tels qu'ils resosortent des survivances culturelles et linguistiques, Bulletin de L'IFAN, no.1, 1979, pp.100-132.
Upadhyaya,P & Upadhyaya,S.P. Affinites ethno-linguistiques entre Dravidiens et les Negro-Africain, Bull. IFAN, No.1, 1976,pp.127-157.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
The best book on the relationship between European languages and Afro-Asiatic is:
Lahovary, N , Dravidian Origins and the West, Madras: Longman,1957.
.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Here is something for the Linguist, Dr Winters et al.
Seems Dr Winter's is not the only or first person pushing this Mande thing. I don't understand Linguistics but . . . is the Basque language and African language?
She is stating, back in the 1920s, that Fulani language is a daughter of Bantu. And that the Hamitic Languages and Bantu are siblings. Thoughts?
AND ====== ==
OUTLINE OF A LEXICOSTATISTICAL STUDY OF BASQUE AND THE MANDE LANGUAGES, WITH A NOTE ON FULA Hans G. MUKAROVSKY This paper does not claim to be a com- leted piece of work, but is simply a piece of information. So I have drafte 1 ale following limes rather quickly, just to give you an idea about this topic. Lexicostatistics have been applied to Basque and various languages, but scarcely to languages of Africa. The Mande Languages form a coherent linguistic unit in West Africa. They number 30 to 40 distinct languages, or dialect clusters, and are spread from eastern Senegal to western Upper Volta, scattered groups being found still further eastward. Their speakers number several millions. They constitute the majority of the population in the Gambia, and foremost in Mali, and form important groups in several other West African countries. Speakers of northern Mande Languages have, in the Middle Ages, formed the great Empires of Ghana and Mali, known to European geographers before the discovery of West Africa by sea. We may assume that they were descendants of an old Saharan population which has been driven southward by progressive desiccation.{THIS IS A COMMON THEME] As they had moved into the Western Sahel and Savannah some• of them penetrated the rain forest zone. The Mande Languages were classified, in my opinion wrongly, among the Nigritic languages which cover the largest part of Africa south of the Sahara. In fact this view has already been abandoned by a part of Africanists. Others cling to the idea, that Mande has seperated first, before any other linguistic entity, from the Common Nigritic stock. In any case the Mande Languages are fairly different, in lexis as in structure, from the 'Nigritic' Languages of West Africa. I have tried to relate these languages to Basque as long time ago as 1964, but have not found much esteem for this idea. So I have left the question where it was and began to enlarge the field of comparison. The results of a [1] 199 HANS G. MUKAROVSKY lexicostatistical test undertaken in 1966 convinced me that Mande must be related to Hamito-Semitic, and that it is closer to Cushitic und Chadic than to its northern branches Berber and Semitic. In a later study I have demonstrated, in 1972, that the common numeral system of the Mande languages strongly resembles to that of Central Cushitic. Asserting the relationship of a group of West African with other African languages is not queer, but simply a case that has to be proven. The question is whether the proofs given are considered as valid and sufficient. But for us it involves-another conclusion. If we accept that Basque is related to Hamito- Semitic it will follow that Basque is also related to Mande, whatever the level of that relationship is. Of course it should be higher than that of a simple family. This relationship can, however, become visible by applying lexicostatistics.
posted
Excellent video. All I have to say is wow. Pretty much all of the common BS points that "eureocentrics" make all tossed in this 5 video segment. I'd like to talk to this man personally.
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posted
Watched All 5 videos and I must say that Keita is nothing but True.
What he said about Egyptians were not displaced is Truth. The Ancient Egyptians are still there and they are in the people of Nubia, Saidi, Fellaheen in Upper Egypt.
He proved that Egyptians are linked to the rest of Africa through Genetics and we should show respect to the people living in upper Egypt since they are the closest to AE.
He also spoke about the Pn2 clade that links Light skinned and Dark Skinned Africans together. The 2 sons E3a and E3b is what makes Africans African. Sadly the E3b gets broken down so much because E3b is found in Europe so then we get E1b1b and E1b1a etc. All it's done is to confuse the Fact that E3b is just as African as E3a.
All in All, A very good speech from Keita.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
As I surmised on ESR. It is pretty clear that that the green Sahara is where it started. Seems like the green Sahara was like "Eden". When the deserts came people dispersed East, West, South AND North.
As Keita pointed out more cities were in the Sahara compared to the Nile Valley around the same time period. An increase in Nile valley cities/towns corresponds to a decrease in the Sahara.
Now as he pointed that doesn't mean the East, West, South and North of the Sahara were totally un-inhabited. However it seems like these Saharans brought advanced technology to the East and North. Not sure what happended in the South.
I posted a paper here, about 8mths ago, which showed that about half of Africa's population occcupied the Nile Valley area during Dynastic times.
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posted
^^OK I was not clear when Keita said "the dates don't work" but I think your explanation helps.
based on various dates- there is contradiction. Looking at the statement below- how would you rephrase/correct it?
If Africans left Africa 50K ago and entered Europe at 35kya, how then does the U6 mutation coming into Africa get dated at 39,000–52,000 ya, when its reputed carriers had not even left Africa, or were just about to Enter Europe?
The above statement is based on a migration out at 50kya.
--- OK now 5 questions:
1) Is their a published academic paper giving a definitive or at least consensus date on when modern humans left Africa? Wikipedia claims they left 70kya but gives no citation. National geog says 50kya, but I saw no citation. Where are these figures coming from? What academic papers give reasonable dates? If Keita says 50kya, where is he getting that date from?
2) Is there any published paper, that criticizes the date discrepancies Keita criticizes in his video?
3) Up above you say U6a represents another later migratory move out of Africa. Is U6 a "homegrown" mutation or variant, and what is its distrib in Africa?
4) Is there a nice table or diagram someplace showing the breakdown of mtDNAs inside Egypt? What exactly is the mtDNA breakdown?
5) Looking at the map from Salas below, it appears that most of the mtDNA is L group of M1. This seems to group populations represented most with African derived or specific haplogroups. Is this interpretation correct? I want to revise the diagram to incorporate any new info,o r correct any errors.
Anyone also interested in the 5- take a stab. Thanks in advance..
---------------------- xyzman said:
Full Study on ESR:
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Mitochondrial DNA transit between West Asia and North Africa inferred from U6 phylogeography Nicole Maca-Meyer,1 Ana M González,1 José Pestano,2 Carlos Flores,1 José M Larruga,1 and Vicente M Cabrera1
Background World-wide phylogeographic distribution of human complete mitochondrial DNA sequences suggested a West Asian origin for the autochthonous North African lineage U6. We report here a more detailed analysis of this lineage, unraveling successive expansions that affected not only Africa but neighboring regions such as the Near East, the Iberian Peninsula and the Canary Islands. Results Divergence times, geographic origin and expansions of the U6 mitochondrial DNA clade, have been deduced from the analysis of 14 complete U6 sequences, and 56 different haplotypes, characterized by hypervariable segment sequences and RFLPs. Conclusions The most probable origin of the proto-U6 lineage was the Near East. Around 30,000 years ago it spread to North Africa where it represents a signature of regional continuity. Subgroup U6a reflects the first African expansion from the Maghrib returning to the east in Paleolithic times. Derivative clade U6a1 signals a posterior movement from East Africa back to the Maghrib and the Near East. This migration coincides with the probable Afroasiatic linguistic expansion. U6b and U6c clades, restricted to West Africa, had more localized expansions. U6b probably reached the Iberian Peninsula during the Capsian diffusion in North Africa. Two autochthonous derivatives of these clades (U6b1 and U6c1) indicate the arrival of North African settlers to the Canarian Archipelago in prehistoric times, most probably due to the Saharan desiccation. The absence of these Canarian lineages nowadays in Africa suggests important demographic movements in the western area of this Continent.
And
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Recently, molecular genetic research on North African populations has contributed new data to test the major issues proposed on archaeological, anthropological and linguistic grounds. The studies based on uniparental genetic markers have been particularly informative. Both, mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequences [4,5], and Y-chromosome binary markers [6,7] detected specific North African haplotypes that confirm an ancient human colonization for this area and a sharp discontinuity between Northwest Africa and the Iberian Peninsula. From a mtDNA point of view, the most informative of these genetic markers is the North African clade U6. On the basis of complete mtDNA sequences, it has been proposed that U6 lineages, mainly found in North Africa, are the signatures of a return to Africa around *****39,000–52,000 ya [8].***** This stresses the importance of its detailed study in order to trace one of the earliest Caucasian arrivals to Africa. Although in moderate frequencies, the geographic range of this clade extends from the Near East to the Canary Islands, along the Atlantic shores of Northwest Africa and from the Sahel belt, including Ethiopia, to the southern Mediterranean rim. Out of this area, U6 has only been spotted in the Iberian Peninsula [9-12], Sicily [13], in the north European Ashkenazic Jews [14], and in Ibero-America. The presence in the latter is, most probably, the result of the Spanish and Portuguese colonization [15,16]. Posts: 2841 | From: Penn | Registered: Jun 2007 | IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator xyyman Member Member # 13597
Rate Member Icon 1 posted 22 June, 2010 10:17 AM Profile for xyyman Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote Riding this timeline bandwagon thing.
Looking at the Nat Geo site. It proposes that modern man left Africa 50kyo and went East. ie away from Europe.
Modern man entered Europe about 35kya. So can the people from the Caucas Mountains be re-entering Africa anytime prior to that.
Caucasians= junk science. Wasn't it Doc Sci who coined the phrase: "Europeans did not even contribute to their own gene pool. " here we have a people who did not exist entering a continent.
Asians re-entering Africa is a better premise. Where is Gigantic the "Caucasian"?
BTW: wouldn't that make ALL genetic markers older than 35Kya non-European. Which includes R1b1b(?) and mt-DNA N(?)
Logic is a bitch!! Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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Where is Keita getting the date from? Maybe the same source as Nat Geo. They both agree to 50kya.
I have seen sources that quotes, 75kya.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Here is a start. Cross check the references:
===== Annu. Rev. Genomics Hum. Genet. 2002. 3:129–52 doi: 10.1146/annurev.genom.3.022502.103200 Copyright c° 2002 by Annual Reviews. All rights reserved First published online as a Review in Advance on June 4, 2002 HUMANMIGRATIONS AND POPULATION STRUCTURE: WhatWe Know andWhy it Matters David B. Goldstein and Loun`es Chikhi Department of Biology, University College London, Darwin Building, London WC1E 6BT, United Kingdom; email: d.goldstein@ucl.ac.uk, l.chikhi@ucl.ac.uk
Arabian peninsula in the southern part of the Red Sea, when the sea levelwas much lower, perhaps 65 KY ago (113). After Arabia, humans could have easily moved toward India and Indonesia and then further to Australia (113). This “sea-route” scenario would fit particularly well with the dating of a burial site from Lake Mungo 3 (southeastern Australia), which indicates that humans arrived there before 60 KY ago. Regarding the early Levant fossils, Klein (59, 60) has argued that they actually reflect failed migrations from Africa. He believes that the first successful colonizations were associated with significant changes in behavior that would be reflected in increased toolkit complexity. Klein argues that complex toolkits and rituals, however, appear only »50 KY ago.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Bends0verMattress991: Good for you, you rat mouth faggot!
I dont listen to no gay ****, and that caca there sounds like some ol B.S
What do you think about the KKK having Egyptian Dna?
You see above what intellectual talk from an intelligent black man does to depraved racists. Posts: 26249 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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It seems the racist fools of today like Septic and Busted Fraud are relying on the debunked pseudo-science that Keita spoke of. That is they acknowledge the Egyptians to be Africans but that they differed from "negroes" and were still "caucasians".
The question is what defines a "negro" and what defines a "caucasian"??
Posts: 26249 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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It is not enough that these guys want African history and geography, they want African biology also, in other words they want to be that African, then they turn around and project their state of mind unto others with negative labels, for low and behold it is no longer that a man jet black from head to toe living far below the Sahara (their imaginary version of the great wall of China to keep the darkies out)to be black if he has angular features, they then protest and label anyone who opposed such idiocy as an Afrocentric..they will bring to bare inappropriate loaded terms like Mediterranean,Caucasian in situations and locations in Africa where it has no place. for the Med.washes the shores of Northern Africa,Southern Europe there was no uniformity of culture or human biology around the Med. And Caucasians came from the Caucasus and did not speak a lick of Afrasian..or carry any African culture, what they want to know is why are there creamy colored people on the Southern Med. today, answer is multi fold they came as settlers,slaves, soldiers,salesman all intermarrying with the black locals they found in the area and according to one report they are by their fathers East Africans and by their mothers Eurasians..Now for anywhere else but Africa one would point a finger at perhaps a massive traffic of Eurasian slaves especially females but that's not allowed because it's Africa remember? it is impossible for "Whites" Eurasians to find themselves slaves to "Blacks".
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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^ You know what the say, some white guys always want to be like the black man but never be the black man. From the silly 'wiggas' kids on the street to the white supremacists who claim their ancestors were pharoahs and built the pyramids. Posts: 26249 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
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