posted
How are you going to make it in the kingdom, by good deeds alone?? Who are what died for you in attonement for your sins?? You say the Bible is corrupted and that Jesus was meerly a prophet, Denying his sacrifice, so please tell me How can you make it into the Kingdom if Allah is the same God as the Torah God, who needs an atonement(Sacrificial Lamb) for your sins,,,Who is it Muhammed.?? PBUH
Also how is Muhammed PBUH a prophet?? What Prophecies did he make?? Where are the Prophecies about the last days in the Koran??
So please tell me how a Muslim gets into the Kingdom with out an attonement??
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
This is a serious topic not Trolling or stupid posts!!...I want to see logically by the Koran how Muslims will make it and not die of the 2nd death by good deeds alone(being a Good Muslim and following the 5 creeds of Islam...
1) There is no God but Allah and Muhammed is his Prophet. 2) The Hajj 3)Fasting and Prayer 4)giving alms to the poor 5)Rahmadan...)
If I was a Murderer, Rapist, If I stole and Killed and genocided people but I did the 5 pillars how can I get into the Kingdom over a person who Never stole, never killed, never Raped, Gave MORE to the poor than me, Visited the Sick, Helped the Downtrodden but did not follow the 5 Pillars?? Does this make sense to you Muslims??
Better yet how can my Good deeds help me out even if I did Good deeds, wont I have to Pay after Allah Judges me?? How can I get an atonement for my sins via Islam or the Koran??
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Yes! bait the fake ass Muslim Egyptian, FraudButser.
Let's see how much he knows about Islam. Appalachian MFer.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
LOL, yes, He is even allowed to use his 10 dfferent aliases..Circleoflife, God of Whites..etc.
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: I want to see logically by the Koran how Muslims will make it and not die of the 2nd death by good deeds alone(being a Good Muslim and following the 5 creeds of Islam...
The Qur'an says nothing about following *five creeds*.
Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; they will have their recompense with their Lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor will they grieve. 2:62
There is no compulsion in the system; the proper way has been clarified from the wrong way. Whoever rejects evil, and believes in God, indeed he has taken grasp of the strongest hold that will never break. God is Hearer, Knower. 2:256
Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: How are you going to make it in the kingdom, by good deeds alone?? Who are what died for you in attonement for your sins?? You say the Bible is corrupted and that Jesus was meerly a prophet, Denying his sacrifice, so please tell me How can you make it into the Kingdom if Allah is the same God as the Torah God, who needs an atonement(Sacrificial Lamb) for your sins,,,Who is it Muhammed.?? PBUH
Also how is Muhammed PBUH a prophet?? What Prophecies did he make?? Where are the Prophecies about the last days in the Koran??
So please tell me how a Muslim gets into the Kingdom with out an attonement??
This a stupid question. Jesus taught that we have direct access to God through prayer.
The Bible teaches us that God will forgive our sins.
If you are a Christian that believes that God does not forgive our sins you are calling our Creator a lie.
If God forgives our sins atonement has nothing to do with our relationship with God--because God will not punish us.
God forgives.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: I want to see logically by the Koran how Muslims will make it and not die of the 2nd death by good deeds alone(being a Good Muslim and following the 5 creeds of Islam...
The Qur'an says nothing about following *five creeds*.
Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; they will have their recompense with their Lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor will they grieve. 2:62
There is no compulsion in the system; the proper way has been clarified from the wrong way. Whoever rejects evil, and believes in God, indeed he has taken grasp of the strongest hold that will never break. God is Hearer, Knower. 2:256
Forgive me but from my studies a True Muslim follows the Pillars accept the Hajj which is optional to those who are poor.
Anyway you say those who believe in God(only Jews, Nazerines, and sabians) and do good Works will make it, so again I present this to you:
Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
The God of the Torah needs a blood sacrifice as an Attonement for sins. Jesus is this blood sacrifice to those who believe on him. Jesus shed his blood for all mankind. When we accept Christ a spirt comes upon us when we are baptized. It compels us to seek Christ and see how he walked as an example. For instance, The Koran teaches Good Works and Prayer..Did you know there is a certain way to pray, certain prophecies concerning the last days in the Torah that contradict the Koran.
So again I ask you who or what is the Attonement of a Muslim? It can't be Christ because Christ says hippicrites pray out in the open, To pray in private and to say OUR Father..etc
Jesus says he is the Son of God, the way the Truth and the Life, and that no man comes to the father but through him, Muslims teach Muhamed is the last prophet denying Christ his divinity and sacrifice, "Allah begat no Son"...
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Then the payoff 75 fair skin (White Pearls) Virgins
The Koran actually encourages Muslims to "Fight for Allah" to recieve a Great reward..so those who say The suicide bombers are not acting within the teachings of Islam are wrong, actually they will recieve a better reward than those who sit at home..
"Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."
"Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: How are you going to make it in the kingdom, by good deeds alone?? Who are what died for you in attonement for your sins?? You say the Bible is corrupted and that Jesus was meerly a prophet, Denying his sacrifice, so please tell me How can you make it into the Kingdom if Allah is the same God as the Torah God, who needs an atonement(Sacrificial Lamb) for your sins,,,Who is it Muhammed.?? PBUH
Also how is Muhammed PBUH a prophet?? What Prophecies did he make?? Where are the Prophecies about the last days in the Koran??
So please tell me how a Muslim gets into the Kingdom with out an attonement??
This a stupid question. Jesus taught that we have direct access to God through prayer.
The Bible teaches us that God will forgive our sins.
If you are a Christian that believes that God does not forgive our sins you are calling our Creator a lie.
If God forgives our sins atonement has nothing to do with our relationship with God--because God will not punish us.
God forgives.
Please answer my question.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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Then the payoff 75 fair skin (White Pearls) Virgins
The Koran actually encourages Muslims to "Fight for Allah" to recieve a Great reward..so those who say The suicide bombers are not acting within the teachings of Islam are wrong, actually they will recieve a better reward than those who sit at home..
"Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."
"Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"
They are not fighting for Islam they are trying to make a political statement.
How can they be fighting for Islam when you already have the freedom to pray and worship God?
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Here the Koran says Muslims to fight People of the book until they pay the Jizya and submit to Islam, so how does this factor into the Last day, are We as Christians doing good works going to make it by your previous comment by believing on God..why do we have to pay the Jizya.??
The Bible says nothing about paying the Jizya..So seems to me only Muslims will make it according to the Koran, so who is the Attonement for their sins??
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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Then the payoff 75 fair skin (White Pearls) Virgins
The Koran actually encourages Muslims to "Fight for Allah" to recieve a Great reward..so those who say The suicide bombers are not acting within the teachings of Islam are wrong, actually they will recieve a better reward than those who sit at home..
"Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."
"Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"
They are not fighting for Islam they are trying to make a political statement.
How can they be fighting for Islam when you already have the freedom to pray and worship God?
Show me where it says Fighting ends when you have freedom to practice Islam. Fighing in the Koran ends when Islam forces all people to Submission.
Qur'an (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."
Qur'an (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"
Islam is not about treating people fairly or peace. Its about Fighting unbelievers until they submit to Islam, plain and simple.
No where did God teach the Jews to Force the law upon the Heathens, No where did Jesus say to Fight the Heathens and force Christianity on them.
Again stick to the Topic, stop Trolling...
Who is the attonement for Muslims. Stop Trolling my Thread.
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Here the Koran says Muslims to fight People of the book until they pay the Jizya and submit to Islam, so how does this factor into the Last day, are We as Christians doing good works going to make it by your previous comment by believing on God..why do we have to pay the Jizya.??
The Bible says nothing about paying the Jizya..So seems to me only Muslims will make it according to the Koran, so who is the Attonement for their sins??
The bombings are of Muslims not people of the Book. So they are not justified by the Quran.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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Then the payoff 75 fair skin (White Pearls) Virgins
The Koran actually encourages Muslims to "Fight for Allah" to recieve a Great reward..so those who say The suicide bombers are not acting within the teachings of Islam are wrong, actually they will recieve a better reward than those who sit at home..
"Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."
"Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"
They are not fighting for Islam they are trying to make a political statement.
How can they be fighting for Islam when you already have the freedom to pray and worship God?
Show me where it says Fighting ends when you have freedom to practice Islam. Fighing in the Koran ends when Islam forces all people to Submission.
Qur'an (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."
Qur'an (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"
Islam is not about treating people fairly or peace. Its about Fighting unbelievers until they submit to Islam, plain and simple.
No where did God teach the Jews to Force the law upon the Heathens, No where did Jesus say to Fight the Heathens and force Christianity on them.
Again stick to the Topic, stop Trolling...
Who is the attonement for Muslims. Stop Trolling my Thread.
You have not even read the quote you posted. It says:
Qur'an (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."
The people being bombed in Iraq and Afghanistan are Muslims--not "unbelievers who are near to you" so the bombing has nothing to do with Islam.
The soildiers being killed by bombs while on patrol or at meetings has to do with all out war--not Islam.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: I want to see logically by the Koran how Muslims will make it and not die of the 2nd death by good deeds alone(being a Good Muslim and following the 5 creeds of Islam...
The Qur'an says nothing about following *five creeds*.
Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; they will have their recompense with their Lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor will they grieve. 2:62
There is no compulsion in the system; the proper way has been clarified from the wrong way. Whoever rejects evil, and believes in God, indeed he has taken grasp of the strongest hold that will never break. God is Hearer, Knower. 2:256
Forgive me but from my studies a True Muslim follows the Pillars accept the Hajj which is optional to those who are poor.
Anyway you say those who believe in God(only Jews, Nazerines, and sabians) and do good Works will make it, so again I present this to you:
Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
The God of the Torah needs a blood sacrifice as an Attonement for sins. Jesus is this blood sacrifice to those who believe on him. Jesus shed his blood for all mankind. When we accept Christ a spirt comes upon us when we are baptized. It compels us to seek Christ and see how he walked as an example. For instance, The Koran teaches Good Works and Prayer..Did you know there is a certain way to pray, certain prophecies concerning the last days in the Torah that contradict the Koran.
So again I ask you who or what is the Attonement of a Muslim? It can't be Christ because Christ says hippicrites pray out in the open, To pray in private and to say OUR Father..etc
Jesus says he is the Son of God, the way the Truth and the Life, and that no man comes to the father but through him, Muslims teach Muhamed is the last prophet denying Christ his divinity and sacrifice, "Allah begat no Son"...
You don't even know what your prophet taught. Jesus never demanded blood sacrifice.
Granted you admit that Jesus taught that one did not have to pray publicly to be a believer as a result, just because you claim to be Christian does not mean you believe in Jesus when you don't follow his teachings.
Many people claim that Jesus was the son of God . So name one place in the Bible where Jesus directly claimed he was the Son of God, he did claim that we were all the children of God.
You claim that Jesus believed in blood sacrifice. Please give me one act of Jesus where he made blood sacrifice.
The teachings of Jesus come from the New Testament--not Old Testament.
Jesus taught you did not need a temple to worship God. He taught that we obtain grace and mercy by helping our fellow man.
Name one place in the New Testament were Jesus directly says you have to make atonement.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Here the Koran says Muslims to fight People of the book until they pay the Jizya and submit to Islam, so how does this factor into the Last day, are We as Christians doing good works going to make it by your previous comment by believing on God..why do we have to pay the Jizya.??
The Bible says nothing about paying the Jizya..So seems to me only Muslims will make it according to the Koran, so who is the Attonement for their sins??
The bombings are of Muslims not people of the Book. So they are not justified by the Quran.
OK, so its alright to kill people of the book and unbelievers but not Muslims..LOL..WOW Such a peaceful religion..
The Torah and Jesus teaches against shedding innocent blood and to turn your cheek. Yeah we worship the same God alight
So are you going to inform me who the Attonement for Muslims is??
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
ou don't even know what your prophet taught. Jesus never demanded blood sacrifice. Jesus was the blood sacrifice, prior to that a Blood sacrifice was needed to atone for sins. You can read it eaisily by Moses. You are simply playing stupid here.
Granted you admit that Jesus taught that one did not have to pray publicly to be a believer as a result, Jesus did not meerly say YOU DON HAVE TO, he instructed to pray privatly and compared those who so it publically(Like Muslims) are hypocrites. Plain and simple.
just because you claim to be Christian does not mean you believe in Jesus when you don't follow his teachings. You don't know what I follow, you are nothing but a misguided muslim apologist trying to Grasp straws instead of answering my question, WHO IS THE ATTONEMENT FOR MUSLIMS?? PERIOD.
Many people claim that Jesus was the son of God . He was. So name one place in the Bible where Jesus directly claimed he was the Son of God,
1 But He kept silent and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” 62 Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”
You claim that Jesus believed in blood sacrifice. Please give me one act of Jesus where he made blood sacrifice. Again Jesus WAS the Blood sacrifice you simple minded fool, why would he practice Blood sacrifice if hs followers were no longer going to need to practice it. Are you saying the Jews during the time of Christ did not give blood sacrifice for the atonement of their sins??
The teachings of Jesus come from the New Testament--not Old Testament. How is this true, when Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament, Give scripture that backs this up.
Name one place in the New Testament were Jesus directly says you have to make atonement to Again Jesus was the Atonement, are you denying Jesus was a blood sacrifice???
For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
So your red herring is dismissed, Christ was the Blood Sacrifice so why would he instruct blood sacrifices.
So again who is the Musilm Attonement??
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Here the Koran says Muslims to fight People of the book until they pay the Jizya and submit to Islam, so how does this factor into the Last day, are We as Christians doing good works going to make it by your previous comment by believing on God..why do we have to pay the Jizya.??
The Bible says nothing about paying the Jizya..So seems to me only Muslims will make it according to the Koran, so who is the Attonement for their sins??
The bombings are of Muslims not people of the Book. So they are not justified by the Quran.
OK, so its alright to kill people of the book and unbelievers but not Muslims..LOL..WOW Such a peaceful religion..
The Torah and Jesus teaches against shedding innocent blood and to turn your cheek. Yeah we worship the same God alight
So are you going to inform me who the Attonement for Muslims is??
You are such a liar. The people of the book killed innocent people. For example, just because the village of Succoth refused to give Gideon bread he killed everyone.
“Here you see Zebah and Zalmunna, about whom you taunted me and said “Are the hands of Zebah and Zalmunna already in your grasp, for us to give bread to your tired troops?” Then he [Gideon] seized the elders of the city, and took desert thorn and briar and tore the men of Succoth with them. He destroyed the tower of Penuel and slaughtered the townsmen.” Judges 8:15-17.
The elders of the town refused to feed his troops—not the townsmen. This was murder of innocent people.
Where does Jesus directly demand blood sacrifice. .
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
My question is simple yet the only person to give a good answer is "Dallia", thankyou Dallia for your response, Clyde Winters is obviously too emotionally attached so instead reverts to Strawman arguments(Asking where Jesus demanded blood sacrifice when I never said he did) and ad-hominien attacks, a Troll who is nothing but an Islamic apologist becuase he hates white people instead of a real Muslim like Dallia who gave me Koranic passages like I asked. Notice he does not give One Koranic passage or attempt to answer my question.
Again for a real Muslim like Dalllia, Thank you for your response. This tread is not a Battle between Xtians and Muslims its a simple question and discussion on the different Faiths.
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
You are such a liar. The people of the book killed innocent people. For example, just because the village of Succoth refused to give Gideon bread he killed everyone. Again shedding innocent blood is an abomination to the Most High, what this has to do with the Koran saying to Kill and Fight infidels and its O.K to God is beyond me. What this has to do with the topic is beyond me. and How is this different than Muslims being allowed to Kill people of the Book and Unbelievers. Show me in the Bible or our of Jesus' mouth where God said its OK to Kill people who don't believe and to force the Law or Gospels onto them?? Like I said saying its OK to blow up Non Muslims but blowing up Muslims is not shows how one Sided Islam is. Its not a religion of peace its a religion of violence to those who don't accept Islam. This is why you all live here and not in Sharia states.
Where does Jesus directly demand blood sacrifice. Again Jesus was the blood sacrifice, so If Jesus did not come people would still need an atonement. this will be the last time I adress this strawman. As Matter of fact show me where I said Christ said this please post.
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: ou don't even know what your prophet taught. Jesus never demanded blood sacrifice. Jesus was the blood sacrifice, prior to that a Blood sacrifice was needed to atone for sins. You can read it eaisily by Moses. You are simply playing stupid here.
Granted you admit that Jesus taught that one did not have to pray publicly to be a believer as a result, Jesus did not meerly say YOU DON HAVE TO, he instructed to pray privatly and compared those who so it publically(Like Muslims) are hypocrites. Plain and simple.
just because you claim to be Christian does not mean you believe in Jesus when you don't follow his teachings. You don't know what I follow, you are nothing but a misguided muslim apologist trying to Grasp straws instead of answering my question, WHO IS THE ATTONEMENT FOR MUSLIMS?? PERIOD.
Many people claim that Jesus was the son of God . He was. So name one place in the Bible where Jesus directly claimed he was the Son of God,
1 But He kept silent and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked Him, saying to Him, “Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” 62 Jesus said, “I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.”
You claim that Jesus believed in blood sacrifice. Please give me one act of Jesus where he made blood sacrifice. Again Jesus WAS the Blood sacrifice you simple minded fool, why would he practice Blood sacrifice if hs followers were no longer going to need to practice it. Are you saying the Jews during the time of Christ did not give blood sacrifice for the atonement of their sins??
The teachings of Jesus come from the New Testament--not Old Testament. How is this true, when Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament, Give scripture that backs this up.
Name one place in the New Testament were Jesus directly says you have to make atonement to Again Jesus was the Atonement, are you denying Jesus was a blood sacrifice???
For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
So your red herring is dismissed, Christ was the Blood Sacrifice so why would he instruct blood sacrifices.
So again who is the Musilm Attonement??
This is how Jesus' followers interpreted a particular act. I don't see where Jesus talked about atonement.
This is a stupid reply because you imply there was a relationship between Jesus and the High Priest. The High Priest were against Jesus, Fool.
You ignorant fool in the Old testament the Sons of God were the angels and Adam see Job 38:7, Luke 3:38 etc. As a result, anyone who follows the commands of God is a Son of God. Even in your post you have people asking Jesus if he was son of god—not Jesus iniating the question.
I believe in God, so I can also be a son of God. What Jesus did say was that he was the Son of Man Matt 9:6, 12:8;Mark 2:10;John 1:51.
You are a child in knowledge. You know only what your preacher teaches you. This allows one to pass on falsehood. If atonement is necessary for attaining Heaven—please post where Jesus taught this concept.
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: You are such a liar. The people of the book killed innocent people. For example, just because the village of Succoth refused to give Gideon bread he killed everyone. Again shedding innocent blood is an abomination to the Most High, what this has to do with the Koran saying to Kill and Fight infidels and its O.K to God is beyond me. What this has to do with the topic is beyond me. and How is this different than Muslims being allowed to Kill people of the Book and Unbelievers. Show me in the Bible or our of Jesus' mouth where God said its OK to Kill people who don't believe and to force the Law or Gospels onto them?? Like I said saying its OK to blow up Non Muslims but blowing up Muslims is not shows how one Sided Islam is. Its not a religion of peace its a religion of violence to those who don't accept Islam. This is why you all live here and not in Sharia states.
Where does Jesus directly demand blood sacrifice. Again Jesus was the blood sacrifice, so If Jesus did not come people would still need an atonement. this will be the last time I adress this strawman. As Matter of fact show me where I said Christ said this please post.
Stupid. The Sharia has nothing to do with the Quran. Sharia relates to the sayings and doings of the prophet and the customs of the people where Islam is practiced. For example, Muslims of the Maliki fiqh allow women considerable freedom.
The Hanafi and Wahabbi Muslims on the otherhand, like you white supremacist believe in keeping women in bondage.
It is intertesting to note, that the main perpetrators of harsh Islam are people who speak Indo-European languages like you European people.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
When you give me a Koranic passage and answer my question, I will reply to you. Until then keep dancing and Trolling my Thread. I aldready adressed the Atnonement issiue with Jesus. I would think someone who claims to be a scholar would not attempt to dance and Troll around the Topic.
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: You are such a liar. The people of the book killed innocent people. For example, just because the village of Succoth refused to give Gideon bread he killed everyone. Again shedding innocent blood is an abomination to the Most High, what this has to do with the Koran saying to Kill and Fight infidels and its O.K to God is beyond me. What this has to do with the topic is beyond me. and How is this different than Muslims being allowed to Kill people of the Book and Unbelievers. Show me in the Bible or our of Jesus' mouth where God said its OK to Kill people who don't believe and to force the Law or Gospels onto them?? Like I said saying its OK to blow up Non Muslims but blowing up Muslims is not shows how one Sided Islam is. Its not a religion of peace its a religion of violence to those who don't accept Islam. This is why you all live here and not in Sharia states.
Where does Jesus directly demand blood sacrifice. Again Jesus was the blood sacrifice, so If Jesus did not come people would still need an atonement. this will be the last time I adress this strawman. As Matter of fact show me where I said Christ said this please post.
You liar killing the innocent can be justified by God according to the writers of the Bible. We read:
“Anyone who strikes a man and so causes his death must die. If he has not lain in wait for him but God has delievered him into his hands then I will appoint you a place where he may seek refuge”.Exodus 21:12-13.
So get off you high horse Fool. People will write and say anything if it supports their reasoning.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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This is how Jesus' followers interpreted a particular act. I don't see where Jesus talked about atonement.So you are Denying Christ, plain and simple Im not going to dance and troll with you. It was law that Attonment was needed for sin, Christ is that Sacrifice. You deny Christ is the sacrifice, no need to dance around the topic.
This is a stupid reply because you imply there was a relationship between Jesus and the High Priest. The High Priest were against Jesus, Fool.
The question you asked was to show you where Christ claimed to be the Son of God, so I provided it to you end of discussion.
You ignorant fool in the Old testament the Sons of God were the angels and Adam see Job 38:7, Luke 3:38 etc. As a result, anyone who follows the commands of God is a Son of God. Even in your post you have people asking Jesus if he was son of god—not Jesus iniating the question. Christ was the first creation of God, he was created before the angels, he created everything, God has never left his throne. Christ is above the Angels. The Same Sons of God came down and slept with women, and thus are fallen Angels. Christ has never Fallen, He has always done the will of the Father from day one, which is why he was the perfect sacrifice.
I believe in God, so I can also be a son of God. What Jesus did say was that he was the Son of Man Matt 9:6, 12:8;Mark 2:10;John 1:51. Where have I denied this, Again Christ is the Head over you, so he is the first Creation of God and his True beggotten son. Muslims says that Allah begat no Son, so how can you be a son of God according to the Koran.
You are a child in knowledge. You know only what your preacher teaches you. This allows one to pass on falsehood. If atonement is necessary for attaining Heaven—please post where Jesus taught this concept. Another ad Hominen attack and strawman. Again Jesus was the Atonement and the Son of God. You are a troll. You deny Christ's sacrifice as an attonement for our sins. This is fundamental Christianity going back to the 1st century, Im not going to run around in circle with you on this issiue.
Again, Who is the Muslim's Attonement? If they don't have one say so. Your Childish Rants prove how dishonest and trollish you really are.
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: When you give me a Koranic passage and answer my question, I will reply to you. Until then keep dancing and Trolling my Thread. I aldready adressed the Atnonement issiue with Jesus. I would think someone who claims to be a scholar would not attempt to dance and Troll around the Topic.
My comments relate to this topic--not trolling.
I have answered your question stupid. The fact that atonement is not mentioned by Jesus as you point out in your post shows that this question is ignorant.
You don't have to seek atonement to be with God.
Your problem fool is that you don’t recognize that you are a son of God and through God’s mercy and grace you will return to Him. You can not really join the Church until you see all mankind as one—created by my Lord God.
“But what you have come to is Mount Zion and the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem where the millions of angels have gathered for the festival, with the whole Church [a congregation of religious worshippers (Acts 7:38;Matt 16:18)] in which [i][b]everyone is a ‘first-born son’ and a citizen of heaven” Hebre12:22-23.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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Im off to work...
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Christ was the first creation of God, he was created before the angels, he created everything, God has never left his throne. Christ is above the Angels. The Same Sons of God came down and slept with women, and thus are fallen Angels. Christ has never Fallen, He has always done the will of the Father from day one, which is why he was the perfect sacrifice.
You don’t know the Bible. The bible makes it clear that the angels helped God in his creation—not Jesus.
I am asking you for direct quotes all you post is the sayings of your preachers. If you believe in Jesus you must show where he taught these things. This you have not done.
Again where does Jesus demand atonement to get to heaven.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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My comments relate to this topic--not trolling.
I have answered your question stupid. The fact that atonement is not mentioned by Jesus as you point out in your post shows that this question is ignorant.
Yes it is, instead of answering the question you attept to stawman your way out. Again the Attonement of Christ goes back to the 1st century. Its well written that Christ died for our Sins and Christ was a Lamb slain for the world. This is general knowledge.
You don't have to seek atonement to be with God. How can you "Seek" attonement?? LMAO, Dude get serious Attonement was required for forgivness of sin.
You don’t know the Bible. The bible makes it clear that the angels helped God in his creation—not Jesus. Back this up with scriptures.
7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
John 1: 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2The same was in the beginning with God.
3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Christ was the Word and Created everything according to the Father, he was in the Garden of Eden.
No Angels helped create anything, The Angels are creation themselves, how can they creatr anything.
I am asking you for direct quotes all you post is the sayings of your preachers. If you believe in Jesus you must show where he taught these things. This you have not done. I have given my quotes, unlike you. Still have not provded on Koranic Verse and Still have not shown who the Attonement for Muslims is.
Again: Who is the Attonement of Islam??
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: You are such a liar. The people of the book killed innocent people. For example, just because the village of Succoth refused to give Gideon bread he killed everyone. Again shedding innocent blood is an abomination to the Most High, what this has to do with the Koran saying to Kill and Fight infidels and its O.K to God is beyond me. What this has to do with the topic is beyond me. and How is this different than Muslims being allowed to Kill people of the Book and Unbelievers. Show me in the Bible or our of Jesus' mouth where God said its OK to Kill people who don't believe and to force the Law or Gospels onto them?? Like I said saying its OK to blow up Non Muslims but blowing up Muslims is not shows how one Sided Islam is. Its not a religion of peace its a religion of violence to those who don't accept Islam. This is why you all live here and not in Sharia states.
Where does Jesus directly demand blood sacrifice. Again Jesus was the blood sacrifice, so If Jesus did not come people would still need an atonement. this will be the last time I adress this strawman. As Matter of fact show me where I said Christ said this please post.
You liar killing the innocent can be justified by God according to the writers of the Bible. We read:
“Anyone who strikes a man and so causes his death must die. If he has not lain in wait for him but God has delievered him into his hands then I will appoint you a place where he may seek refuge”.Exodus 21:12-13.
So get off you high horse Fool. People will write and say anything if it supports their reasoning.
Show me how this equates with your comment that its O.K for Muslims to blow up people of the Book and non believers but not O.K for Muslims...?? That makes no sense and the fact you are trying to red herring your way out is appaling. How can you justify something like that. The Bible does'nt say its O.K to Kill heathens but not O.K to Kill Christians or Jews. Thou shall not Kill is a commandment period and Shedding innocent blood is an abomination. Stop trying to Justify it.
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: The Bible does'nt say its O.K to Kill heathens but not O.K to Kill Christians or Jews. Thou shall not Kill is a commandment period and Shedding innocent blood is an abomination. Stop trying to Justify it.
It is obvious that you have never studied the Bible. The Old Testament is full of violence and justification in killing inocent people in the name of God.
“Nothing, however, that a man lays under ban for Yahweh may be redeemed; nothing he possesses, whether man, beasts or fields of his patrimony. What is laid under ban is always a most holy thing and belongs to Yahweh. A human being laid under ban cannot be redeemed, he must be put to death”. Leviticus 27:28-29.
The People of the book used the ban to justify killing innocent men, women and children
“Yahweh heard the voice of Israel and delivered the Canaanites into their power. And they laid them under ban, both them and their towns. This place was given the name Hormah”. Numbers 20:3.
Let’s look at what the poets sang concerning the conquest of Transjordana
“Heshbon has destroyed the little children as far as Dibon, the women as far as Nophah, the men as far as Medeba”. Numbers 21: 30.
Wasn’t this the murder of innocent children?
It is clear from these statements that People of the Book killed many innocent people in the name of God.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Just call me Jari You can't read you wrote
quote:
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
This has nothing to do with Jesus. It clearly says that "the Word was God", so it is talking about God as Creator.
Jesus said he was the Son of Man.
.
Clyde you are obviously ignorant. The Word is Elohim in the Hebrew which is plural. There are 3 that bear record in heaven,
7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. Its clear that these threee are seperate but Agree in One accord just as Blood, Water and Spirit agree in one accord to make life.
The Father, The Word, and the Holy Spirit.
Further:
Rev:19:10 10And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Notice the Description of the word of God(Eyes as a flame of Fire, Feet as Fine Brass)match the description of Jesus in Rev. the first chapter. So in essence the Word of God in John is Jesus.
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Forgive me but from my studies a True Muslim follows the Pillars accept the Hajj which is optional to those who are poor.
Well, there is a difference in studying the faith itself, i.e. reading the message and using your heart and brain to understand it, and studying the man-made religion according to so-called scholars.
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
Anyway you say those who believe in God(only Jews, Nazerines, and sabians) and do good Works will make it, so again I present this to you:
What's the point in answering a quote from a scripture with a quote from another scripture? Personally, I don't believe Jesus died for our sins, so no quote saying otherwise is going to matter for me. However, I am perfectly ok with other people believing this.
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: The God of the Torah needs a blood sacrifice as an Attonement for sins.
See above.
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Jesus says he is the Son of God, the way the Truth and the Life, and that no man comes to the father but through him, Muslims teach Muhamed is the last prophet denying Christ his divinity and sacrifice, "Allah begat no Son"...
Exactly. So Christians and Muslims just have to agree to disagree on this point. Do you have problem with this? I don't. Posts: 2803 | Registered: Feb 2007
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Most religions used some type of sacrifice or has at one time during their distant past had sacrifices, sometime humans sometimes animals, some started out with humans phased that out and substitute animals others go further and phased-out all sacrifices altogether.
In the old Testament God had a wicked sense of humor..get this he wanted to see just how obedient Abraham was to his words so he devised a test as cruel as any Greek god could have came up with,he told this ninety something old man to take his beloved young son Isaac on top of a mountain to secretly kill and burn him as a sacrifice,Now neither Mrs Abraham nor Isaac had any clue as they waved good bye to each other in what was supposed to be a day trip to the hills with dear ol dad.after reaching the summit or a good enough spot good ol pops had Issac gather fire wood and he most likely carried the rope up the hill to help out his ol man..but soon enough he realized that hey where is the goat? or sheep? not even chicken!! at this moment he must have thought well geez the ol man must be slipping after all he is past ninety and this is when he politely quizzed the ol man.
Issac: Dad? Abe: yes son! Issac: I think we forgot something! Abe: No son every thing is right here!! Issac: why you looking at me all funny? Abe: you know I love you right? Issac: err yess,,dad?? Abe: you know there is no sheep or even a chicken..be.be. because SON YOU ARE IT!!..pheew I said it,, this is hard for me too son! at least you'll be dead n all burnt-up, but I gotta go back N face the ol lady and you know how much of a nag she can be, if we live for another five hundered years she will remind me every single day.
But hey!! GOD want me to do this didn't give any rhyme or reason, he just say do it!
Isaac: Ok!! dad father knows best and I being the good son that I am,, I am not thinking of braining your ol most likely senile azz wid this rock.
At this point Isaac allowed Abraham to tie him up.
Isaac: dad make it quick and painless and quit shaking you gonna miss the jugular.
At this point GOD showed up.. GOD: HAY ABE!!! Abe: yes God? GOD: PUT THAT DAMN JAGGEDY STONE KNIFE AWAY YOU OL GOAT! I WAS JUST PLAYING !! WE HAD A BET WID SOME OF THE FELLAS UP HERE IN HEAVEN TO SEE IF YOU WOULD DO IT AND I WON. I KNEW YOU WOULDN'T SAY NO TO ME! AAANY WAY LOOK BEHIND YA THERE IS A GOAT DO SOMETHING WITH THAT WILL YA. Abe:Thank you lord thank you thank you..hah ha you got me that was a good one. GOD: TAKE CARE OF THAT KID WILL YA!! AND HOLLA AT THE MISSES FOR ME..IAM OUT!!!Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Well, there is a difference in studying the faith itself, i.e. reading the message and using your heart and brain to understand it, and studying the man-made religion according to so-called scholars. O.K thank you for this fact, you learn something new everyday..
What's the point in answering a quote from a scripture with a quote from another scripture? Personally, I don't believe Jesus died for our sins, so no quote saying otherwise is going to matter for me. However, I am perfectly ok with other people believing this. O.K thankhyou Dallia..As said I am O.K with those who don't believe, its not my position to push my beliefs. Im simply curious from a Christian stance if Muslims believe in the attonement, which they don't.
Exactly. So Christians and Muslims just have to agree to disagree on this point. Do you have problem with this? I don't I don't have a problem with this, I was simply interested if Islam accepted the attonement of Christ while denied he was the Son of God, thats all. Now I can see they don't believe in an attonement. Which satifies my qestion. Ad we will have to agree to disagree..thanks. and Peace!!
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Some jolly sort of God... Does he drink beer too?
When it's GOD nothing is off-limits,he had a six day work wk creating the universe and everything in it.he took sometime off to recline on the seventh so yeah tis possible.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Afronut we already answered this, people who have never heard of Christ are converd by his sacrifice, people Who know about him but Deny him before men and choose to unbelieve will be Denied by Christ before the Father and will suffer the second death.
Christ and only save you if you accept him.
If you knew this why did you ask the stupid question to Muslims how you going to make it into heaven.
You are a hateful person interested in promoting disunity among mankind.If this was not true you would not be trying to spread the idea that only Christians will get to heaven. This was the same myth taught by racist whites that heaven was only for whites. Shame on you.
Every body knows that Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet of God. They also believe in his teachings fool.
Jesus said we are all the Children of God.
You have not studied the words of Jesus.Jesus never said anything about redemption. This idea of atonement was made up by Paul.
You are a hypocrite. You follow the religion of Paul, not the teachings of Jesus.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Afronut we already answered this, people who have never heard of Christ are converd by his sacrifice, people Who know about him but Deny him before men and choose to unbelieve will be Denied by Christ before the Father and will suffer the second death.
Christ and only save you if you accept him.
If you knew this why did you ask the stupid question to Muslims how you going to make it into heaven.
You are a hateful person interested in promoting disunity among mankind.If this was not true you would not be trying to spread the idea that only Christians will get to heaven. This was the same myth taught by racist whites that heaven was only for whites. Shame on you.
Every body knows that Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet of God. They also believe in his teachings fool.
Jesus said we are all the Children of God.
You have not studied the words of Jesus.Jesus never said anything about redemption. This idea of atonement was made up by Paul.
You are a hypocrite. You follow the religion of Paul, not the teachings of Jesus.
I already discussed with a real Muslims someone who gave me Koranic verses unlike you. I doubt you can even recite the Koran. You are sad, you think your take on the Bible as a Corner store Muslims makes you holy but you really have no idea about Fundamental christianity.
Your ignorace rears again in the fact you attack Paul. Had you any clue on the history of Paul and his relation to the Church you would know he did not change anything. So please spare me.
You did nothing but Troll this thread with non sense instead of answering the question like Dollia a real Muslim did. This was not even a attack on Islam but a serious inquiry of mine.
The conversation is over by a real Muslim so you can go back to your psudoscience and theft of Dravidian, Olmec and non African culture.
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Afronut we already answered this, people who have never heard of Christ are converd by his sacrifice, people Who know about him but Deny him before men and choose to unbelieve will be Denied by Christ before the Father and will suffer the second death.
Christ and only save you if you accept him.
If you knew this why did you ask the stupid question to Muslims how you going to make it into heaven.
You are a hateful person interested in promoting disunity among mankind.If this was not true you would not be trying to spread the idea that only Christians will get to heaven. This was the same myth taught by racist whites that heaven was only for whites. Shame on you.
Every body knows that Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet of God. They also believe in his teachings fool.
Jesus said we are all the Children of God.
You have not studied the words of Jesus.Jesus never said anything about redemption. This idea of atonement was made up by Paul.
You are a hypocrite. You follow the religion of Paul, not the teachings of Jesus.
I already discussed with a real Muslims someone who gave me Koranic verses unlike you. I doubt you can even recite the Koran. You are sad, you think your take on the Bible as a Corner store Muslims makes you holy but you really have no idea about Fundamental christianity.
Your ignorace rears again in the fact you attack Paul. Had you any clue on the history of Paul and his relation to the Church you would know he did not change anything. So please spare me.
You did nothing but Troll this thread with non sense instead of answering the question like Dollia a real Muslim did. This was not even a attack on Islam but a serious inquiry of mine.
The conversation is over by a real Muslim so you can go back to your psudoscience and theft of Dravidian, Olmec and non African culture.
I know the history of Paul. I have also been studying the Bible since I could read fool. As a result, I know what Jesus says and what Paul says.
My question is"Do you believe in Jesus or Paul?
Jesus said obey his words. Jesus never taught about atonement so your argument lacks any foundation based on the teachings of Jesus.
You are ignorant of the Bible--you talk only about what you learned from your religion--not Jesus.
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Afronut we already answered this, people who have never heard of Christ are converd by his sacrifice, people Who know about him but Deny him before men and choose to unbelieve will be Denied by Christ before the Father and will suffer the second death.
Christ and only save you if you accept him.
If you knew this why did you ask the stupid question to Muslims how you going to make it into heaven.
You are a hateful person interested in promoting disunity among mankind.If this was not true you would not be trying to spread the idea that only Christians will get to heaven. This was the same myth taught by racist whites that heaven was only for whites. Shame on you.
Every body knows that Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet of God. They also believe in his teachings fool.
Jesus said we are all the Children of God.
You have not studied the words of Jesus.Jesus never said anything about redemption. This idea of atonement was made up by Paul.
You are a hypocrite. You follow the religion of Paul, not the teachings of Jesus.
I already discussed with a real Muslims someone who gave me Koranic verses unlike you. I doubt you can even recite the Koran. You are sad, you think your take on the Bible as a Corner store Muslims makes you holy but you really have no idea about Fundamental christianity.
Your ignorace rears again in the fact you attack Paul. Had you any clue on the history of Paul and his relation to the Church you would know he did not change anything. So please spare me.
You did nothing but Troll this thread with non sense instead of answering the question like Dollia a real Muslim did. This was not even a attack on Islam but a serious inquiry of mine.
The conversation is over by a real Muslim so you can go back to your psudoscience and theft of Dravidian, Olmec and non African culture.
I know the history of Paul. I have also been studying the Bible since I could read fool. As a result, I know what Jesus says and what Paul says.
My question is"Do you believe in Jesus or Paul?
Jesus said obey his words. Jesus never taught about atonement so your argument lacks any foundation based on the teachings of Jesus.
You are ignorant of the Bible--you talk only about what you learned from your religion--not Jesus.
.
Like I said you are ignorant, the fact that you attack Paul shows this. It is really that simple. The fact that you keep trying to deny the Attonement which goes back to the begining of Christianity shows how much you lack in understanding. As I said a real Muslim already adressed me unlike some Corner store Muslim psudo scholar that steals other cultures. Your attacks on Paul show how unlearned you are.
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Like I said you are ignorant, the fact that you attack Paul shows this. It is really that simple. The fact that you keep trying to deny the Attonement which goes back to the begining of Christianity shows how much you lack in understanding. As I said a real Muslim already adressed me unlike some Corner store Muslim psudo scholar that steals other cultures. Your attacks on Paul show how unlearned you are.
Stupid. This shows your lack of knowledge. Christianity began with Jesus preaching to the people. Jesus; disciples followed him to learn from his words --not death fool.
You just don't get it. If Paul was teaching the truth he would have been accepted by Jesus' followers. Paul was not accepted by them that is why he made up his own religion and taught it in the West, where people had never seen or heard Jesus.
Instead of going to church to be taught dogmas--study the Good Book and learn what Jesus taught and said.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Who is it Muhammed.?? PBUH
A prophet and a messenger exactly just as prophet Moses PBUH
quote: You say the Bible is corrupted and that Jesus was meerly a prophet, Denying his sacrifice, so please tell me How can you make it into the Kingdom if Allah is the same God as the Torah God, who needs an atonement(Sacrificial Lamb) for your sins,
Torah is also corrupted .
God does not forgive your sins if you sacrifice meat !!!
quote: Also how is Muhammed PBUH a prophet?? What Prophecies did he make??
There are numerous of them but the last standing is Quran .
quote: So please tell me how a Muslim gets into the Kingdom with out an attonement??
Not only good deads
2:277 "Truly those who believe, and do deeds of righteousness, and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, they will have their reward with their Lord. On them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."
3:133 to 136
133 "And march forth in the way (which leads to) forgiveness from your Lord, and for Paradise as wide as the heavens and the earth, prepared for AI-Muttaqun (the pious)"
134 "Those who spend (in Allah's Cause) in prosperity and in adversity, who repress anger, and who pardon men; verily, Allah loves AI-Muhsinun (the good-doers)."
135
"And those who, when they have committed Fahishah (illegal sexual intercourse) or wronged themselves with evil, remember Allah and ask forgiveness for their sins; - and none can forgive sins but Allah - and do not persist in what(wrong) they have done, while they know."
136 "For such, the reward is Forgiveness from their Lord, and Gardens with rivers flowing underneath (Paradise), wherein they shall abide forever. How excellent is this reward for the doers (who do righteous deeds according to Allah's Orders)."
quote: Where are the Prophecies about the last days in the Koran??
Read chapter 56 verses 1:6
There a lot of verses in the Koran about that but they are scattered everywhere.
And The Sunnah has hundreds of Hadith that talks about this point
Posts: 2417 | From: Cairo | Registered: Jun 2009
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2:277 "Truly those who believe, and do deeds of righteousness, and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, they will have their reward with their Lord. On them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."
3:133 to 136
133 "And march forth in the way (which leads to) forgiveness from your Lord, and for Paradise as wide as the heavens and the earth, prepared for AI-Muttaqun (the pious)"
134 "Those who spend (in Allah's Cause) in prosperity and in adversity, who repress anger, and who pardon men; verily, Allah loves AI-Muhsinun (the good-doers)."
135
"And those who, when they have committed Fahishah (illegal sexual intercourse) or wronged themselves with evil, remember Allah and ask forgiveness for their sins; - and none can forgive sins but Allah - and do not persist in what(wrong) they have done, while they know."
136 "For such, the reward is Forgiveness from their Lord, and Gardens with rivers flowing underneath (Paradise), wherein they shall abide forever. How excellent is this reward for the doers (who do righteous deeds according to Allah's Orders)."
O.K so from the Koran you ASK Allah for forgivenesss. This makes more sense to me than not having to ask. Also it says As-Salat, you statement "Not just good deeds" makes it seem As-Salat and Zukat are not good deeds please explain this. Also How do you get forgivness?? Do you ask for it, why does it say "March in the way of Forgiveness" what must you do to get it? Must you be a Muslim to get forgivness?? Also how do you know you are forgiven..
A prophet and a messenger exactly just as prophet Moses PBUH You mistake the statment I was asking is Muhammed is the Islamic sacrifice like Jesus is to the Christians not if he is a prophet. Again Moses made prophecies.
Torah is also corrupted. So is the Koran.
God does not forgive your sins if you sacrifice meat !!! Again an attonement was required, If Muslims dont need one its probably becuase the Jews were no longer practicing it due to the destruction of the Temple. I was simply wondering if Muslims believed in christ's sacrifice but denied his divinity...now I know you deny his sacrifice as well.
Posts: 8806 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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