quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: How are you going to make it in the kingdom, by good deeds alone??
Who are what died for you in attonement for your sins??
So please tell me how a Muslim gets into the Kingdom with out an attonement??
Every religion teaches that by Good works and treating mankind well we will attain association with our Creator.
God is the name we have given our Creator.
The Bible teaches that God is Truth.
The Bible says God forgives all our sins.
The Bible teaches that God forgives all your sins anytime and anywhere.
If God forgives all sins:
Why do you believe only Christians will go to Heaven
Again this is about who is the Atonement of the Muslim in the Koran, who or What. Works is nothing without Faith in The Son. This is what seperates a Christian from a non Christian, We accept the Son as savior of Mankind, Hence-"No Man comes to the Father but through me". Without Baptism of the Water and Spirit(by seeking the Father through Christ) our good works are like dirty rags.
So again who is the attonement for the Muslim, if Allah is the God of the Torah???
Also I don't judge who is or who is not going to heaven. I never said only Christians are going to Heaven, Im not the Judge so how can I know such a thing.
My question was who or what is the sacrifice for the Muslim. Plain and Simple.
For instance, How can Good Works alone get one into the Kingdom. Are we not sinning and doing and thinking Evil numerous times a day, So according to you I can kill 5 million people and simply ask for forgivenss and make it to heaven while a person who has never killed might not becuase he DID NOT ask for forgiveness??
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: , Hence-"No Man comes to the Father but through me". Without Baptism of the Water and Spirit(by seeking the Father through Christ) our good works are like dirty rags.
Also I don't judge who is or who is not going to heaven. I never said only Christians are going to Heaven, Im not the Judge so how can I know such a thing.
My question was who or what is the sacrifice for the Muslim. Plain and Simple.
For instance, How can Good Works alone get one into the Kingdom. Are we not sinning and doing and thinking Evil numerous times a day, So according to you I can kill 5 million people and simply ask for forgivenss and make it to heaven while a person who has never killed might not becuase he DID NOT ask for forgiveness??
This statement also makes it appear that you have no undestanding of the question you are asking.
First of all Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet.
Secondly, I don't believe you--and especially me--think about evil or doing evil every day--or ever.
Thirdly, when the Hebrews were taking over Palestine they were admonished to kill every man,women and child--just so they could take control of Israel.
If Hebrews were justified in genocide to build ancient Israel--why should I, or anyone else feel that by killing people God will not forgive us?
Moreover, why do Christians believe in the death penalty when God does not kill us for our sins the moment they are committed?
If God punished us for the sins we commit--when they are committed. There would be very few Christians or anyone else on this earth.
Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
There may have been a time when religion was progressive to human evolution, and by this, I'm talking about way, way back in time, early in our biological and social evolution.
But like many social forms of society, what was once a vehicle of progress, in the long run may become outmoded and become a vehicle of reaction, because such new-found social attainments were meant to serve well only as transitional developments to more developed, sustainable and stable social forms, when instead they have been kept around longer than their effective date, due to the largely conservative social nature of human beings...which paradoxically runs parallel to progressive life-changing technological innovations and scientific growth.
This is what I think has become of religion. Religion has now reached a point wherein it has become more of a vehicle for social reaction, stagnation, and a problem creator than what it was in its formative years.
A fresh milk will taste superb and quite healthy well within its "best by" imprinted date, but it can only retain this effect for so long, when it will no longer be fresh and no longer be a promoter of health, and hence, has to be discarded. Failure to do so, can only be a recipe for disaster ahead. Sadly, this is obvious only when it comes to commodities like milk, but much more difficult to see the wood for the trees when it comes to our complex social setups.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Explorer, keep your liberal trap shut about religion, stop judging all of religion based on a handful of fundies who misuse religion by acting like false prophets. God and His Word will abide forever, ignorance will not. If religion and God is like expired milk whats the next best thing in your opinion? SMH@ these damn liberals.
Posts: 2595 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Fock you, man. You piece of shyt. Who the hell do you think you are, to be ordering people around about if and when they are allowed to post, and share their opinion in a forum, that was designed to do just that -- people giving their peace of mind. Do you now fancy your stinky ass as the divine supreme one or what? This is not Nazi Germany or fascist Italy, this is called an "internet forum", where people from around the world post. And instead of rationally replying the points I make, you throw religious garb back at me. Your post actually reinforces the point I was making about the outmoded-ness of religious dogma. Thanks for playing along.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Fock you, man. You piece of shyt. Who the hell do you think you are, to be ordering people around about if and when they are allowed to post, and share their opinion in a forum, that was designed to do just that -- people giving their peace of mind. Do you now fancy your stinky ass as the divine supreme one or what? This is not Nazi Germany or fascist Italy, this is called an "internet forum", where people from around the world post. And instead of rationally replying the points I make, you throw religious garb back at me. Your post actually reinforces the point I was making about the outmoded-ness of religious dogma. Thanks for playing along.
Ok Mr Heathen, have your opinion but it has no truth in it, there is no secret that liberals want to dismantle religion so they world can live like communist USSR. Please, keep the Jew inspired anteist talk coming. Religion is just as strong as its ever been.
Posts: 2595 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
I don't get why every bloody discussion has to turn into a trifling cat fight with you, simply because of the way you come at people. You and certain posters are culprits of this behavior and then you wonder why you get treated like that. Even now, you can't seem to forge a rational rebuttal to my points.
I made my commentary on religion in an objective manner, and all you do, is to threw supposed pointless ad hominems at me about being a heathen, a Jew, or a communist.
You say that liberals want to dismantle religion. Yet you offer no evidence of this; and if you did, then why have you not posted it, rather than being preoccupied with throwing infantile emotional insults in my direction?
There is a difference between so-called "liberals" making an informed and objective case for the social backwardness of religion and the notion that "liberals" are "dismantling religion". The former does not exactly amount to "dismantling" religion, does it? since everyone has the freewill to follow religion to their own discretion, if they so choose.
You say that there is no truth in what I said, yet you have failed to identify this, and offer your own counter objective observation, that directly relates to mine.
You also say that religion is as strong as ever. That is a red herring, since no one professed otherwise. But in any case, perhaps because of this "strong" presence, our world is getting more and more focked up than ever...and why we have leaders in some parts of the globe (like in the US, Iran, Libya, Israel for example) giving bellicose speeches filled with religious terms of good (flaunting themselves as the "good ones") vs. evil, and things like "9/11", the Madrid bombings, the Oklahoma bombings, and now this Norwegian bombings.
Ps: Even if these tragic events were not really driven by religion as a root cause, they are nevertheless generally done in the name of religion.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: I don't get why every bloody discussion has to turn into a trifling cat fight with you, simply because of the way you come at people. You and certain posters are culprits of this behavior and then you wonder why you get treated like that. Even now, you can't seem to forge a rational rebuttal to my points.
I made my commentary on religion in an objective manner, and all you do, is to threw supposed pointless ad hominems at me about being a heathen, a Jew, or a communist.
You say that liberals want to dismantle religion. Yet you offer no evidence of this; and if you did, then why have you not posted it, rather than being preoccupied with throwing infantile emotional insults in my direction?
There is a difference between so-called "liberals" making an informed and objective case for the social backwardness of religion and the notion that "liberals" are "dismantling religion". The former does not exactly amount to "dismantling" religion, does it? since everyone has the freewill to follow religion to their own discretion, if they so choose.
You say that there is no truth in what I said, yet you have failed to identify this, and offer your own counter objective observation, that directly relates to mine.
You also say that religion is as strong as ever. That is a red herring, since no one professed otherwise. But in any case, perhaps because of this "strong" presence, our world is getting more and more focked up than ever...and why we have leaders in some parts of the globe (like in the US, Iran, Libya, Israel for example) giving bellicose speeches filled with religious terms of good (flaunting themselves as the "good ones") vs. evil, and things like "9/11", the Madrid bombings, the Oklahoma bombings, and now this Norwegian bombings.
Ps: Even if these tragic events were not really driven by religion as a root cause, they are nevertheless generally done in the name of religion.
You made the unsupported claim that religion is waning by your comparison of religion to milk losing its freshness, I said that its just as strong as ever. I don't count fundies as part of that. And yes, liberals like bashing religion every chance they get when religion isn't the root of any of the problems in their bogus claims, an objective liberal would see the sense in that.
Posts: 2595 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: How are you going to make it in the kingdom, by good deeds alone??
Who are what died for you in attonement for your sins??
So please tell me how a Muslim gets into the Kingdom with out an attonement??
Every religion teaches that by Good works and treating mankind well we will attain association with our Creator.
God is the name we have given our Creator.
The Bible teaches that God is Truth.
The Bible says God forgives all our sins.
The Bible teaches that God forgives all your sins anytime and anywhere.
If God forgives all sins:
Why do you believe only Christians will go to Heaven
The idea that people die and go to heaven is not a Biblical teaching. Is a a LIE made up by Christendom.
When Jesus spoke about CERTAIN people going to heaven he made it clear it was just a small number of humans and they were being bought from among mankind for a purpose. The rest of mankind (everyone else) has no heavenly hope whatsoever.
Jesus made it clear no human had EVER died and gone to heaven. This means Biblical stalwarts like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, Job, Daniel etc NEVER made it to heaven. If these big guns did not go to heaven; that alone, should tell you this idea of dying and going to heaven is a humongous lie made up by Christendom to fool its followers. Unfortunately, Islam ever ready to copy the Christians also teach this falsehood of dying and going to heaven. The whole idea is one BIG LIE.
Posts: 620 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: How are you going to make it in the kingdom, by good deeds alone??
Who are what died for you in attonement for your sins??
So please tell me how a Muslim gets into the Kingdom with out an attonement??
Every religion teaches that by Good works and treating mankind well we will attain association with our Creator.
God is the name we have given our Creator.
The Bible teaches that God is Truth.
The Bible says God forgives all our sins.
The Bible teaches that God forgives all your sins anytime and anywhere.
If God forgives all sins:
Why do you believe only Christians will go to Heaven
The idea that people die and go to heaven is not a Biblical teaching. Is a a LIE made up by Christendom.
When Jesus spoke about CERTAIN people going to heaven he made it clear it was just a small number of humans and they were being bought from among mankind for a purpose. The rest of mankind (everyone else) has no heavenly hope whatsoever.
Jesus made it clear no human had EVER died and gone to heaven. This means Biblical stalwarts like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, Job, Daniel etc NEVER made it to heaven. If these big guns did not go to heaven. This should tell you this idea of dying and going to heaven is a humongous lie made up by Christendom to fool its followers.
You need to read the Bible again, you're totally off.
Posts: 2595 | From: Vicksburg | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: How are you going to make it in the kingdom, by good deeds alone??
Who are what died for you in attonement for your sins??
So please tell me how a Muslim gets into the Kingdom with out an attonement??
Every religion teaches that by Good works and treating mankind well we will attain association with our Creator.
God is the name we have given our Creator.
The Bible teaches that God is Truth.
The Bible says God forgives all our sins.
The Bible teaches that God forgives all your sins anytime and anywhere.
If God forgives all sins:
Why do you believe only Christians will go to Heaven
The idea that people die and go to heaven is not a Biblical teaching. Is a a LIE made up by Christendom.
When Jesus spoke about CERTAIN people going to heaven he made it clear it was just a small number of humans and they were being bought from among mankind for a purpose. The rest of mankind (everyone else) has no heavenly hope whatsoever.
Jesus made it clear no human had EVER died and gone to heaven. This means Biblical stalwarts like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, Job, Daniel etc NEVER made it to heaven. If these big guns did not go to heaven; that alone, should tell you this idea of dying and going to heaven is a humongous lie made up by Christendom to fool its followers. Unfortunately, Islam ever ready to copy the Christians also teach this falsehood of dying and going to heaven. The whole idea is one BIG LIE.
Energy
Maybe you have an point, and maybe you don't. Just wanted to show you a little taste of what the TRUTH(Bible) says:
Majority of True Christians will be on Paradise on Earth as the Bible does teach us. Yet Heaven is a REALITY for people also.
Read this from Yahoshua:
John 14:2-4In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going.”
Then you have the Rich Man and Lazerus:
Luke 16:22- “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried.
Now the story about Lazarus speaks about the Angels carrying Lazarus into Abrahams bosom so maybe it may not speak directly about Heaven, but it speaks about a Holy Place.
Matthew 6:19-20 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through and steal.
So just wanted to show you that Heaven is a reality for Many and as we read from Revelations, A New Heaven and a New Earth will be where True Believers will live in when the Glory of the Master returns.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
King you said; "Majority of True Christians will be on Paradise on Earth as the Bible does teach us. Yet Heaven is a REALITY for people also."
-----------------
My brother, that is EXACTLY what I said.
Only a tiny number of humans go to heaven. And they do so for a purpose. However, the rest of mankind, the majority stay on this earth forever and ever.
You made the unsupported claim that religion is waning by your comparison of religion to milk losing its freshness
No, you just can't read. The milk analogy was to show that the commodity can only stay fresh and useful for a certain period of time, after which it will outlive its usefulness. The point was to show that people can generally readily see when milk has outlived its usefulness and discard it accordingly, but that in the case of religion, it is not done away with, even though it too seems to have outlived its usefulness as a progressive social tool that it once may have been during the earlier periods of human social evolution. I don't know how you managed to screw that up, as it was presented in no complicated terms.
quote: And yes, liberals like bashing religion every chance they get when religion isn't the root of any of the problems in their bogus claims, an objective liberal would see the sense in that.
You offer no proof of this "bashing", other than telling us to believe it, because you "say so", nor do you specify whom you are calling "liberals". Forget these phantom "liberals" and deal with what's being said herein.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
I think many people simply mistake what the Bible conveys, likely from the way Jesus presented to the masses in allegory and parable, then translating Jews who lacked the true esoteric, non-communicated recondite instructions and doctrine of philosophy being given. This is especially true when considering that Jesus considered these same Jews as unenlightened, and spiritually dead.
When Jesus spoke of THE WAY, much of his message ran parallel to, THE MIDDLE WAY, whereas the path to Heaven (Nirvana) was through enlightenment.
The path to enlightenment could only be achieved by first abandoning the world of Sin (Hell) at which point one becomes resurrected (reborn). The ultimate end goal of following THE WAY was, an end to suffering.
These are not to be confused with the Jewish misleading, "playground" in the sky, or fire pit, demon infested underground city called hell. These are simple inventions of the Jews intended for those masses who lack an esoteric understanding (The majority), and therefore make literal misinterpretation of the path to enlightenment based on their need for SUPERSTITION.
So, from an esoteric view, Hell becomes, The world itself, filled with unending pain, sin, and suffering, while Heaven becomes a refuse (Qumran) to the secular world.
Those residing at Qumran are spiritually enlightened or proceeding towards THE WAY, while those outside are spiritually dead. Such that Lazarus, who started in THE WAY, left for Jerusalem, and was declared DEAD by Jesus. On his return he became resurrected (Spiritually Alive). Remember Jesus was approached on the mount by Satan who pointed out to Jesus that everything and as far as he could see, belonged to Satan. If Jesus complied, Satan would give it all to him. In the esoteric view, Satan was man, or more specifically, the men who ran Jerusalem. What those of exoteric understanding see is a red, horned, hoof footed demon when in fact, it was simply a man (Jew) offering a bribe.
Posts: 2403 | Registered: Feb 2010
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posted
MelaninKing you said many people mistake what the Bible conveys.
The truth is many people DO NOT KNOW or even care what the Bible says.
God does not set out to deceive mankind by giving them a book open to interpretation as Christendom or people claim today. 99.9 percent of the Bible in IS VERY CLEAR and straight to the point. Problems or doubt comes when people ignore this truth and put their own spin or interpretation on what is clear and straight to the point in the Bible. People who do this are not considered God's children. The Bible drives that point home in numerous places in the Old Testament. Notable examples is how Aaron's two sons died in a flame of fire by putting their own interpretation on what God had commanded Moses. Another example was King Saul who lost the Kingship by also putting his own understanding on what God has said in the Bible.
What those people did and thus lost God's favour is Christendom's way of worship today. Christians today like to put their own spin or interpretation on what is clear and straight to the point in the Bible or even IGNORE the Bible altogether. They do so because they don't like what they read in the Bible. However, the word of God is clear. People who carry on like that, do not originate with God but are from the Devil.
Posts: 620 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: ^ So, what you are implying is the Bible is the Literal word of God and Jesus?
Just like any intelligent being will give a blue-print or book of instructions on something they created to help people on how to use it well. Likewise, the Bible is the instruction book from an INTELLIGENT CREATOR for mankind on how we are supposed to lead our lives. Thus it is not ambiguous or designed to mislead as people like to claim it is.
Posts: 620 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
^ The straight forward answer to the question I presented would have been, YES, I believe the Bible is the exact word of God and Jesus. Did God create the mealy mouth?
posted
^ Why would I respond the way you wanted when judging by my experience on this site, many of you here are not interested in the truth and are only here to promote your own agendas? Thus my response was structured not to leave any room for doubt on what I meant.
Posts: 620 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
Energy is right, the bible does not teach that mankind goes to "Heaven" but that Heaven will be here on Earth..I.E a Kingdom of heaven where the Ressurected Jesus will rule when he returns. Further the Bible does not teach mankind will go to hell, because the idea was still fresh and new.
Energy where are you reading that a "small" select number will go to Heaven..?? The Whole damn world will be under the command of the Kingdom of Heaven..according to the Bible..The Kingdom of Heaven will come on Earth.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Clyde is right that the Bible excludes the majority of the world in revelations where 90% (non-believers) of the world goes to hell while the remaining number will enjoy ever lasting life in the second coming. This 90% of non-believers includes Muslims, Hindus, Buddhas, and everyone else who do not follow the Catholic church. BTW, this includes Baptists and ever other splinter group of the Catholic church.
posted
^I keep wondering: if the Bible is the word of god, how did the word of god get IN the Bible?
Did god print it himself?
If so, how did he distribute the Bibles, and when did he do it? Was it something like Santa, where they were all distributed one night. How did he know who should get Bibles, and how did they get in stores? Why do Christians have to pay for them, and what does god do with the profits?
On the other hand, if they are printed and distributed by man. How do we know that it is really the word of god?
How did he communicate to these people who are the Bible makers. Have any of them ever said that they actually talk to god - and get a response?
How does all of this really work?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
^ It works through blind faith and ignorance of the truth. You must be conditioned never to question any of the many contradictions it contains and somehow find some weak and illogical justification to put it out of mind. That the book was compiled by a people who literally lived for vengeance and violence is of no concern. You must learn to ignore and pretend that the opportunist institution that sponsored the work, was not directly responsible for imprisoning, torturing, and murdering literally 10s of billions in the name of this ideal, as well as destroying any books of truth which contradicted the words of the moneychangers. Lastly, you must be oblivious to the fact that the book is directly responsible for some of the worst suffering that mankind has ever been exposed in the recent history of the world.
Lastly, to accept the words in the Bible, one must be spiritually dead, steeped in materialism, and deeply embedded in and accepting of, the world of sin.
No doubt that God is a marketing genius. He set the price of the Bible at $9.96, and it took off like wildfire. Posts: 2403 | Registered: Feb 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: How are you going to make it in the kingdom, by good deeds alone??
Who are what died for you in attonement for your sins??
So please tell me how a Muslim gets into the Kingdom with out an attonement??
Every religion teaches that by Good works and treating mankind well we will attain association with our Creator.
God is the name we have given our Creator.
The Bible teaches that God is Truth.
The Bible says God forgives all our sins.
The Bible teaches that God forgives all your sins anytime and anywhere.
If God forgives all sins:
Why do you believe only Christians will go to Heaven
@ Clyde,
Saying that ALL Christians believe a certain way is the same as saying that All Muslims believe a certain way.
You are correct. Our sins were forgive at the cross. All sin, from all people, past present and future.
... but there are those who don't accept this. They would rather be judged by the law rather than have the covering of Christ. Under the law we are all sinners.
quote: Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Sin is breaking the law of God. The penalty for sin is death. Jesus provided an atonement for our sins.
The Jews would make blood sacrifices for their sins. So when they sinned then they would sacrifice an animal for that sin. Then once a year the priest would sacrificed an unblemished lamb for all of the sins committed that year. He revisited the sin because the blood of animals cannot take away sin.
Jesus was without sin... as you will also find in the Quran. He is the only man who ever lived that was without sin. You as a Muslim know this as well.
Christians believe that Jesus gave himself a covering for our sins. He was the unblemished lamb. Remember Abraham, took his son (we believe Isaac, you believe Ishmael) to be a sacrifice and God provided a lamb. Jesus is our lamb.
The problem with the law is that no one can keep it. You break the law in one instance and you are guilty of breaking the whole law. Your punishment is death. Jesus gives life. He over came death. Even the Quran teaches that Jesus is alive in heaven. Jesus is alive Clyde, you know this.
I am Christian. I don't believe that God judges a person based on their religion. I believe that he judges based on our heart. Not all Christians will be in heaven. God is righteous and judges righteous judgment. I believe that there will be some from every race and religion in heaven. I agree with The Explorer that religion is stagnate. God is bigger than religion.
I am also Liberal and feel that the platform of the Republican party is contrary to the teachings of Jesus.
The Bible says:
quote: Mat 5:9 Blessed 3107 [are] the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.
posted
@ Mike, The Bible is not the word of God. Jesus is the word of God.
quote: Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Jhn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Jhn 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Jhn 1:6 ¶ There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John.
Jhn 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe.
Jhn 1:8 He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light.
Jhn 1:9 [That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Jhn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Jhn 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Jhn 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
Jhn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
Jhn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, [but] grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Energy is right, the bible does not teach that mankind goes to "Heaven" but that Heaven will be here on Earth..I.E a Kingdom of heaven where the Ressurected Jesus will rule when he returns. Further the Bible does not teach mankind will go to hell, because the idea was still fresh and new.
Energy where are you reading that a "small" select number will go to Heaven..?? The Whole damn world will be under the command of the Kingdom of Heaven..according to the Bible..The Kingdom of Heaven will come on Earth.
@ Jari
Luk 17:20 ¶ And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation :
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Posts: 770 | From: www.cafepress.com/tahrir_square | Registered: Jul 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^I keep wondering: if the Bible is the word of god, how did the word of god get IN the Bible?
Did god print it himself?
If so, how did he distribute the Bibles, and when did he do it? Was it something like Santa, where they were all distributed one night. How did he know who should get Bibles, and how did they get in stores? Why do Christians have to pay for them, and what does god do with the profits?
On the other hand, if they are printed and distributed by man. How do we know that it is really the word of god?
How did he communicate to these people who are the Bible makers. Have any of them ever said that they actually talk to god - and get a response?
How does all of this really work?
Mike no need to wonder.
There are three parts of the Bible and they all prove its authenticity.
In one part it is full of DIRECT instructions from God to his prophets to tell the Hebrews to do this and that. Those this and that put together is what became the laws in the Old testament.
In addition to the laws you have the prophecies. If you are interested, start a thread on it and I will take you through them. I promise you, you will be astounded and amazed by their accuracy.
Apart from the laws and the prophecies, the Hebrews wrote accounts of their rebelliousness, their trials and tribulations up till their downfall.
The historical recordings, the prophecies in addition to the laws is what became the Old Testament.
With regard to distributing the word, God appointed a section of the twelve tribes known as the Levite to teach and instruct the Hebrews about his laws.
I hope this answers your questions.
Posts: 620 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Energy where are you reading that a "small" select number will go to Heaven..?? The Whole damn world will be under the command of the Kingdom of Heaven..according to the Bible..The Kingdom of Heaven will come on Earth.
Speaking directly to those Apostles to whom he made a promise will go to heaven with him Jesus said:
"Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the Kingdom." Luke 12:32
To stress only a small minority make it to heaven Jesus said:
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. ....... Blessed are they that have been persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Matt. 5: 8,10
If your heart is not pure and you have NEVER been persecuted to death like Jesus and the Apostles, then you are not of this little flock.
This group with the heavenly hope are not the same as those whom Jesus referred to as other sheep. To these earth bound ones who are the majority Jesus said:
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Matt. 5: 5
"I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. John 10:16
Also For evil-doers shall be cut off; But those that wait for Jehovah, they shall inherit the land. 10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: Yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and he shall not be. 11 But the meek shall inherit the land, And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace. Ps. 37: 9
For the upright shall dwell in the land, And the perfect shall remain in it. 22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the land, And the treacherous shall be rooted out of it. Prov. 2: 21
Posts: 620 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
^ The Bible has nothing to do with black people.
Indigenous black religions are primitive african tribal myths.
The Bible was mostly written in the middle-east, not sub-sahara africa.
You should be worshipping african Gods not stealing other races religions.
Posts: 2408 | From: My mother's basement | Registered: Dec 2010
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quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: Mike? Does it?
I DID notice that none even attempted to answer my questions, but rather simply brushed them aside, and repeated the mantras, as if the answers were to be found there.
But that's okay, religion is not about truth, justice, love, or any of that stuff. It's about "Faith" that in the end, you will be spared the punishments of the non-believers, and receive the good life: whether that be the 70 virgins or whatever. I wish them good luck.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Energy where are you reading that a "small" select number will go to Heaven..?? The Whole damn world will be under the command of the Kingdom of Heaven..according to the Bible..The Kingdom of Heaven will come on Earth.
Yes, the whole damn world will be under the fuking command of the god damn kingdom of god man! Fuk ya!
Posts: 4254 | From: dasein | Registered: Jun 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^I keep wondering: if the Bible is the word of god, how did the word of god get IN the Bible?
Did god print it himself?
If so, how did he distribute the Bibles, and when did he do it? Was it something like Santa, where they were all distributed one night. How did he know who should get Bibles, and how did they get in stores? Why do Christians have to pay for them, and what does god do with the profits?
On the other hand, if they are printed and distributed by man. How do we know that it is really the word of god?
How did he communicate to these people who are the Bible makers. Have any of them ever said that they actually talk to god - and get a response?
How does all of this really work?
Energy - This is my original post. I don't see where you have answered ANY of my questions. But that's okay, I was just making mischief. Better to ignore me, than to try and bamboozle me.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: Mike? Does it?
I DID notice that none even attempted to answer my questions, but rather simply brushed them aside, and repeated the mantras, as if the answers were to be found there.
But that's okay, religion is not about truth, justice, love, or any of that stuff. It's about "Faith" that in the end, you will be spared the punishments of the non-believers, and receive the good life: whether that be the 70 virgins or whatever. I wish them good luck.
I answered your question Here.Posts: 770 | From: www.cafepress.com/tahrir_square | Registered: Jul 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: How are you going to make it in the kingdom, by good deeds alone??
Who are what died for you in attonement for your sins??
So please tell me how a Muslim gets into the Kingdom with out an attonement??
Every religion teaches that by Good works and treating mankind well we will attain association with our Creator.
God is the name we have given our Creator.
The Bible teaches that God is Truth.
The Bible says God forgives all our sins.
The Bible teaches that God forgives all your sins anytime and anywhere.
If God forgives all sins:
Why do you believe only Christians will go to Heaven
@ Clyde,
Saying that ALL Christians believe a certain way is the same as saying that All Muslims believe a certain way.
You are correct. Our sins were forgive at the cross. All sin, from all people, past present and future.
... but there are those who don't accept this. They would rather be judged by the law rather than have the covering of Christ. Under the law we are all sinners.
quote: Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Sin is breaking the law of God. The penalty for sin is death. Jesus provided an atonement for our sins.
The Jews would make blood sacrifices for their sins. So when they sinned then they would sacrifice an animal for that sin. Then once a year the priest would sacrificed an unblemished lamb for all of the sins committed that year. He revisited the sin because the blood of animals cannot take away sin.
Jesus was without sin... as you will also find in the Quran. He is the only man who ever lived that was without sin. You as a Muslim know this as well.
Christians believe that Jesus gave himself a covering for our sins. He was the unblemished lamb. Remember Abraham, took his son (we believe Isaac, you believe Ishmael) to be a sacrifice and God provided a lamb. Jesus is our lamb.
The problem with the law is that no one can keep it. You break the law in one instance and you are guilty of breaking the whole law. Your punishment is death. Jesus gives life. He over came death. Even the Quran teaches that Jesus is alive in heaven. Jesus is alive Clyde, you know this.
I am Christian. I don't believe that God judges a person based on their religion. I believe that he judges based on our heart. Not all Christians will be in heaven. God is righteous and judges righteous judgment. I believe that there will be some from every race and religion in heaven. I agree with The Explorer that religion is stagnate. God is bigger than religion.
I am also Liberal and feel that the platform of the Republican party is contrary to the teachings of Jesus.
The Bible says:
quote: Mat 5:9 Blessed 3107 [are] the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.
I believe in God. I believe that Jesus came to free me from following any woman or Man since I can pray directly to the Creator.
I do not subscribe to any religion because all religions are man made.
You claim you believe in Jesus, while claiming there is a new law mankind must follow. In Matt 5:17-18: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
The Prophets told many stories and made many prophesies but the only law they taught was that one must believe in a Higher Power than themselves, by what ever name they give Him/Her. This means that Heaven will be manifest for everyone that is/was created.
Although this is the LAW, every religion claims only their followers will get to heaven. Since this is false, all religions are false.
posted
That's what the Bible not I claims. Got a problem take it up with the person who wrote the bible.
quote:Originally posted by anguishofbeing:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Energy where are you reading that a "small" select number will go to Heaven..?? The Whole damn world will be under the command of the Kingdom of Heaven..according to the Bible..The Kingdom of Heaven will come on Earth.
Yes, the whole damn world will be under the fuking command of the god damn kingdom of god man! Fuk ya!
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: Mike? Does it?
I DID notice that none even attempted to answer my questions, but rather simply brushed them aside, and repeated the mantras, as if the answers were to be found there.
But that's okay, religion is not about truth, justice, love, or any of that stuff. It's about "Faith" that in the end, you will be spared the punishments of the non-believers, and receive the good life: whether that be the 70 virgins or whatever. I wish them good luck.
D_Oro - I did not insult you, why do you choose to insult me?
To pathetically claim that by repeating some biblical writings, you have answered my reasoned and reasonable questions, is a grievous insult to my intelligence. What, am I so stupid that I don't know when a fool is trying to bamboozle me?
You should show some intelligence of your own, KNOW WHO YOU ARE SPEAKING TO! The ignorant and fearful will gobble that stuff up. But people like me just get mad, we don't like being insulted like that.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote: I believe in God. I believe that Jesus came to free me from following any woman or Man since I can pray directly to the Creator.
I agree.
quote: I do not subscribe to any religion because all religions are man made.
I agree again.
quote: You claim you believe in Jesus, while claiming there is a new law mankind must follow. In Matt 5:17-18: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
I never claimed that there is a new law that mankind must follow.
The scripture you posted clearly states that Jesus came to fulfill the law. Not sure if you are mistaking me for someone else or what.... Please clarify your point here.
quote: The Prophets told many stories and made many prophesies but the only law they taught was that one must believe in a Higher Power than themselves, by what ever name they give Him/Her. This means that Heaven will be manifest for everyone that is/was created.
Which prophets are you talking about? Moses brought the law to the Jews.
quote: Although this is the LAW, every religion claims only their followers will get to heaven. Since this is false, all religions are false.
quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: Mike? Does it?
I DID notice that none even attempted to answer my questions, but rather simply brushed them aside, and repeated the mantras, as if the answers were to be found there.
But that's okay, religion is not about truth, justice, love, or any of that stuff. It's about "Faith" that in the end, you will be spared the punishments of the non-believers, and receive the good life: whether that be the 70 virgins or whatever. I wish them good luck.
D_Oro - I did not insult you, why do you choose to insult me?
To pathetically claim that by repeating some biblical writings, you have answered my reasoned and reasonable questions, is a grievous insult to my intelligence. What, am I so stupid that I don't know when a fool is trying to bamboozle me?
You should show some intelligence of your own, KNOW WHO YOU ARE SPEAKING TO! The ignorant and fearful will gobble that stuff up. But people like me just get mad, we don't like being insulted like that.
Not sure what I said that was so insulting to you. Maybe you didn't understand what I said. Let me try again.
You said:
quote: ^I keep wondering: if the Bible is the word of god, how did the word of god get IN the Bible?
Did god print it himself?
If so, how did he distribute the Bibles, and when did he do it? Was it something like Santa, where they were all distributed one night. How did he know who should get Bibles, and how did they get in stores? Why do Christians have to pay for them, and what does god do with the profits?
On the other hand, if they are printed and distributed by man. How do we know that it is really the word of god?
How did he communicate to these people who are the Bible makers. Have any of them ever said that they actually talk to god - and get a response?
How does all of this really work?
My answer to your question is:
The Bible IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD.
Jesus IS THE WORD OF GOD.
... The Bible was written by men. Is was not dictated to a man. It was written by many men through out a long history.
... The Old Testament is the Jewish Torah. The Torah is the history of the Jews... It also is the prophecy of Jesus.... AGAIN not the word of God.
... The New Testament is the fulfilling of the prophecy of the Torah. It has words that Jesus spoke. It also has the words of those who bore witness of Jesus.
... The Bible states that it was written by holy men of God as they were moved by the holy ghost.
Posts: 770 | From: www.cafepress.com/tahrir_square | Registered: Jul 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: , Hence-"No Man comes to the Father but through me". Without Baptism of the Water and Spirit(by seeking the Father through Christ) our good works are like dirty rags.
Also I don't judge who is or who is not going to heaven. I never said only Christians are going to Heaven, Im not the Judge so how can I know such a thing.
My question was who or what is the sacrifice for the Muslim. Plain and Simple.
For instance, How can Good Works alone get one into the Kingdom. Are we not sinning and doing and thinking Evil numerous times a day, So according to you I can kill 5 million people and simply ask for forgivenss and make it to heaven while a person who has never killed might not becuase he DID NOT ask for forgiveness??
This statement also makes it appear that you have no undestanding of the question you are asking.
First of all Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet.
In fact the Quran speaks very highly of Jesus. It calls Jesus the word of God and says that he was conceived by the spirit of God. It says that Jesus is the Messiah. That he is without sin. Tells about miracle he did and says that he is alive in heaven with God.
quote: Secondly, I don't believe you--and especially me--think about evil or doing evil every day--or ever.
Sin is breaking the law. If you break in once you are guilty of breaking the law.
quote: Thirdly, when the Hebrews were taking over Palestine they were admonished to kill every man,women and child--just so they could take control of Israel.
If Hebrews were justified in genocide to build ancient Israel--why should I, or anyone else feel that by killing people God will not forgive us?
They are not justified.
quote: Moreover, why do Christians believe in the death penalty when God does not kill us for our sins the moment they are committed?
Christians are human and sinners. They don't always do the right thing or believe the right way. Don't look at Christians... Look at Jesus the Christ.
quote: If God punished us for the sins we commit--when they are committed. There would be very few Christians or anyone else on this earth.
I don't really have a good response to this statement.
Posts: 770 | From: www.cafepress.com/tahrir_square | Registered: Jul 2010
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quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: ^ It works through blind faith and ignorance of the truth. You must be conditioned never to question any of the many contradictions it contains and somehow find some weak and illogical justification to put it out of mind. That the book was compiled by a people who literally lived for vengeance and violence is of no concern. You must learn to ignore and pretend that the opportunist institution that sponsored the work, was not directly responsible for imprisoning, torturing, and murdering literally 10s of billions in the name of this ideal, as well as destroying any books of truth which contradicted the words of the moneychangers. Lastly, you must be oblivious to the fact that the book is directly responsible for some of the worst suffering that mankind has ever been exposed in the recent history of the world.
Lastly, to accept the words in the Bible, one must be spiritually dead, steeped in materialism, and deeply embedded in and accepting of, the world of sin.
No doubt that God is a marketing genius. He set the price of the Bible at $9.96, and it took off like wildfire.
Hi MK, How are you?
What truth are you talking about that one has to be ignorant of to believe in the Bible? And which books of truth have been distroyed?
I disagree with your spiritually dead statement. I also disagree with the blind faith statement. I think we should question everything.
Posts: 770 | From: www.cafepress.com/tahrir_square | Registered: Jul 2010
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quote:Originally posted by MelaninKing: ^ It works through blind faith and ignorance of the truth. You must be conditioned never to question any of the many contradictions it contains and somehow find some weak and illogical justification to put it out of mind. That the book was compiled by a people who literally lived for vengeance and violence is of no concern. You must learn to ignore and pretend that the opportunist institution that sponsored the work, was not directly responsible for imprisoning, torturing, and murdering literally 10s of billions in the name of this ideal, as well as destroying any books of truth which contradicted the words of the moneychangers. Lastly, you must be oblivious to the fact that the book is directly responsible for some of the worst suffering that mankind has ever been exposed in the recent history of the world.
Lastly, to accept the words in the Bible, one must be spiritually dead, steeped in materialism, and deeply embedded in and accepting of, the world of sin.
No doubt that God is a marketing genius. He set the price of the Bible at $9.96, and it took off like wildfire.
Hi MK, How are you?
What truth are you talking about that one has to be ignorant of to believe in the Bible? And which books of truth have been distroyed?
I disagree with your spiritually dead statement. I also disagree with the blind faith statement. I think we should question everything.
Gold,
How you doing? What's the happenings? What it be like? Good to see you? Where the heck have you been?
Posts: 2403 | Registered: Feb 2010
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I now have my own little flock of chickens. It has been much more work than I thought and I have lost four of the girls to predators. Down to 6 hens... lost my two favorites. One to a coyote and the other to a bobcat. Have also been fighting off a opossum. These eggs are worth at least $50 a dozen.
I have a part time job that is not based on the Internet so that has kept me off line.
I still think about the mushroom log but we are smoldering here so I doubt mushrooms would have a chance.
Perhaps you need a guard dog to protect your flock. I'm about to get a new dog. It's half Wolf and half German Shepard. This will be my second one, and they make great pets, and watch dogs.
You need lots of shade and moisture for mushrooms. I have a stream at the end of my property with lots of big oaks and they do really well there.
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