-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
The authenticity of the Ra-Hotep-Nofret statues are questioned not merely because of the skin tones, but rather, certain observed protocols in AE art that they break. For one, Ra-Hotep and his female companion have their own separate slabs, when in most other occasions couples are united on one slab. The hieroglyphs on the upper edges of the slabs are unusual. One might argue that it is rarely the case for ruling figures to be seen with mustaches, as opposed to the "divine" goatee, but that is not all that significant in the overall observation.
Ps: Also noticeable, are the peculiar hand gestures. In most cases, the hands are placed on the thighs, unless the figure is specifically holding something in one hand.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
No serious person questions the rhaotep art work. Every afrocentric nut to come down the block questions the work for obvious reasons. Posts: 2036 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
I've always felt it was fake because it deviates from the standard royal artwork of its time in AE. But hey, I am no art expert. Perhaps the artist wanted to do something revolutionary for his time.
-------------------- Will destroy all Black Lies Posts: 2025 | Registered: Dec 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
^^^^ Yeah but why are there no other works, surely if the Artist did break from the Norm, why are there no Practice peices or something. What it looks like to me is someone who did not understand the Royal Art Standards and went off using memory of other works.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Never thought they were fake until now. How interesting. Yes they do look fake when compared to most sculpture of this time period. That doesn't mean they are but one has to admit there is a strong possibility of fraud here.
Should be easy to tell if they are fake by simply comparing them to other works in the time period and other representations of Rhaotep.
Doesn't really matter since the vast majority of representations of the Egyptian population, especially the common man, was that of a mahogeny colored person. We can always find depictions of Blacks in European art, even in the royal families of Europe, but it doesn't mean the European population was significantly Black. Same logic should apply to Egypt at least until we have evidence of significant migration and or invasion of non-Nile valley East African peoples which we know happened in the last 2000 years.
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
These statues were excavated directly from Rahoteps tomb in 1871. If they were retrieved by other means, I could see a better possibility in them being fake.
A better title for this thread might be: Djehuti are you real or fake?lol
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
whether you loons think they are fake or not is not going to matter. We also have people who join the 'Flat earth Society' in 2011.
Posts: 2036 | From: Texas | Registered: Sep 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Since the little lyingass girl is so desperate for MY attention, I'll bite even though I don't usually bother going to this messed up section of the forum in the first place.
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: The authenticity of the Ra-Hotep-Nofret statues are questioned not merely because of the skin tones, but rather, certain observed protocols in AE art that they break. For one, Ra-Hotep and his female companion have their own separate slabs, when in most other occasions couples are united on one slab. The hieroglyphs on the upper edges of the slabs are unusual. One might argue that it is rarely the case for ruling figures to be seen with mustaches, as opposed to the "divine" goatee, but that is not all that significant in the overall observation.
Ps: Also noticeable, are the peculiar hand gestures. In most cases, the hands are placed on the thighs, unless the figure is specifically holding something in one hand.
^ Explorer pretty much covers what I think of the statues.
As far as them looking 'white'. Well...
^ Rahotep looks like a light-skinned black man to me, and no doubt his image was originally darker as was that of his wife who may have been painted in symbolic yellow. Both have obviously lost their paint.
Posts: 26280 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: Since the little lyingass girl is so desperate for MY attention, I'll bite even though I don't usually bother going to this messed up section of the forum in the first place.
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: The authenticity of the Ra-Hotep-Nofret statues are questioned not merely because of the skin tones, but rather, certain observed protocols in AE art that they break. For one, Ra-Hotep and his female companion have their own separate slabs, when in most other occasions couples are united on one slab. The hieroglyphs on the upper edges of the slabs are unusual. One might argue that it is rarely the case for ruling figures to be seen with mustaches, as opposed to the "divine" goatee, but that is not all that significant in the overall observation.
Ps: Also noticeable, are the peculiar hand gestures. In most cases, the hands are placed on the thighs, unless the figure is specifically holding something in one hand.
^ Explorer pretty much covers what I think of the statues.
As far as them looking 'white'. Well...
^ Rahotep looks like a light-skinned black man to me, and no doubt his image was originally darker as was that of his wife who may have been painted in symbolic yellow. Both have obviously lost their paint.
First you acknowledge that you believe the statues to be fakes, and then you suggest that their paint has faded. Which one do you believe? That they are modern fakes, or that they are original with faded paint? Perhaps you believe they are modern fakes that have faded paint?
I do believe he doesn't know what to think.
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Nofret likely was painted yellow like below:
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Plenty of depictions of mahogany colored women in Egyptian art as well:
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Of course there are also other couples depicted in Egyptian art but you rarely see these:
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Confirming Untruth: Rahotep does not look like a typical Black man. He looks Italian.
That's funny. I know Italians especially in the south have recent African ancestry from the neolithic, but I have yet to see an Italian that looks like this:
The lips even the upper lips are very big, almost everted. The hair shows no lankness but in fact is elevated above the scalp like a short afro, and the skin is a yellowish brown complexion like that of a light-skinned black man, yet again it's likely the paint was much darker as vague traces can be seen around the neck and lower face.
quote:Originally posted by Hammered: a light skinned black man? His wife looks like a light skinned black woman?
Again, his wife Nofret is stark white though likely it was originally yellow. You can see traces of the yellow around the neck and some streaks on the face. Even part of her black eyebrows are faded, you fool. Other than that, her features are not atypical for east African women and she wears her hair in African braided style as well as the decorative headband commonly worn by east African women.
quote:Originally posted by A Simpleton: First you acknowledge that you believe the statues to be fakes, and then you suggest that their paint has faded. Which one do you believe? That they are modern fakes, or that they are original with faded paint? Perhaps you believe they are modern fakes that have faded paint?
I do believe he doesn't know what to think.
I never stated any beliefs that they were fakes or not. I simply quoted Explorer as I feel the same as he does in that the statues are portrayed totally out of the usual artistic convention that Egyptian portraits are usually made. That does not mean they are necessarily fabricated, but it does raise doubts. I won't state they are fake unless there is conclusive evidence, no no need to twist my words like your equally twisted sister lyinass.
Posts: 26280 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Nofret, the woman in the sculpture was the wife of a government official named Rahotep.
If female deities were painted yellow for symbolic reasons Nofret would not be painted yellow because she was not a deity or having to do with symbolism. The sculpture is simply a portrait.
The base material is plaster which unpainted is white as you can see in unpainted plaster reserve heads. There is no evidence of yellow showing on the Nofret sculpture. What is showing is an "off white" or a light beige color. It is not a faded yellow color. Beige is white with a hint of brown in it. A faded yellow over a white plaster base would simply be a lighter yellow or "yellowish white".
posted
Funny how so-called "restoration" techniques wash away color hues in select instances. In this photo we see the lady Nofret has the canonical feminine skin tone painted onto the sculptured limestone which, except for the foot rests, were whitewashed.
Although certain characteristics of the pair are puzzling they were inside a sealed unrobbed mastaba when found.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: Nofret, the woman in the sculpture was the wife of a government official named Rahotep.
If female deities were painted yellow for symbolic reasons Nofret would not be painted yellow because she was not a deity or having to do with symbolism. The sculpture is simply a portrait.
The base material is plaster which unpainted is white as you can see in unpainted plaster reserve heads. There is no evidence of yellow showing on the Nofret sculpture. What is showing is an "off white" or a light beige color. It is not a faded yellow color. Beige is white with a hint of brown in it. A faded yellow over a white plaster base would simply be a lighter yellow or "yellowish white".
Thanks for the enlargement which only proves my point further. You can easily see that the paint has not only faded but has peeled off or has been removed. I am not into looney conspiracy theories but I could understand why someone would think that the original color was intentionally scrubbed away. I would think they would do a better job if it was intentional since it is clear what the original color use to be.
Not sure why non-Africans focus on Nofret so readily but I guess that is natural. Egypt was such a properous and enduring civilization and I understand why everyone would like to imagine that they have some relatedness.
Egypt was man's gateway to the rest of the world from Africa so in a way there's some truth in non-Africans being the children of the Nile as in 80K years ago. But it is highly fool hearted and arrogant to rob the indigenous people of the Nile of their heritage by twisting facts and over representing Whites in Egypt.
So I ask you - is this a fake?
Just watched the Ten Commandments, not one indigenous Egyptian, not one that looked anything like the above.
So why the focus on the few whitened up artifacts?
I assume it is a nice fantasy.
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Funny how so-called "restoration" techniques wash away color hues in select instances. In this photo we see the lady Nofret has the canonical feminine skin tone.
This poorer qulaity photo obviously has a yellow cast to the entire thing the white chairs are showing as much yellow as her dress.
This is funny, you deliberately go looking for a bad quality photo and then try to claim that it shows the "canonical" yellow skin tone as if it was some earlier stage before restoration techniques.
We find people trying to cover all bases saying maybe it;s fake and then trying to use the paint faded argument at the same time.
When yellow is used in Egyptian art symbolically on Goddesses it is yellow not some light beige color or even a yellowish beige.
A yellowish beige color is not used on this nofret statue. Light beige was used. When yellowish beige is used on a non deity person it is darkish not pure yellow not faded yellow which simply gets whitish therefore "whitish yellow" or "yellowish white"
It represents one of two things. A yellowish beige skin tone like some Khosian people have at similar distances from the equator and/or a convention of showing females in general as lighter than males. The Khosian people are not yellow. They are yellowish beige not some version of just yellow. That means they have some brown in the tone. This type of tone is like what some people call "high yellow" It's not accurate, just like calling Chinese people "yellow" is not accurate. Human skin tone is not like a lemon, is not like a lemon that is faded to white an even lighter yellow. The more pure yellow color is used in some Egyptian deities when it fades it just gets lighter not brownish (beige)
Look at the chairs, if they look yellowish it's just a bad photo.
^^^This is proper color in a good quality photo.
Please don't try to use the bad photo argument because it comes off sounding very weak. The color here even has slight reddish quality in the skin tone. The way you get a color like this is to take white paint and then mix in a small amount of the same color as the male figure Rahotep is painted in.
here we have a different sitution
On the left Hathor's skin is pianted symbolic golden yellow. Her garment is reddish brown. On the right Queen Nefertari painted in a different color.
________________________________________
Therefore the remaining feasible options of the Rahotep and Nofret are:
1) the whole thing is fake
2) It's a real statue that somebody later lightened up Nofret to make her look more European Possibly also but a mustache on Rahotep
3) The fact that Nofret is lighter than Rahotep is no problem. her skin tone falls within the range of African diversity
4) Nofret had a natural skin tone the same as Rahotep maybe very slightly lighter but the difference was exaggerated her skin made much lighter because of a convention that women are lighter skinned then men which they actually are in some societies due to things like being in the home more.
5) Nofret is shown with lighter skin because she had light skin and many Egyptian men liked women with lighter skin than the skin they had. Her light skin may or may not fall into a 100% African ancestry but that is a separate issue, her skin tone was significantly lighter
6) we are all sick people obsessing over the superficial quality of skin tone thinking it's relevant dividing the world into black and white artificially for political reasons
Just watched the Ten Commandments, not one indigenous Egyptian, not one that looked anything like the above.
So why the focus on the few whitened up artifacts?
I assume it is a nice fantasy. [/QB]
You say that Nofret's skin tone was scrubbed intentionally to make her look lighter than Rahotep but why was Rahotep not scrubbed to that same skin tone?
The Ten Commandments is a 54 year old movie it is not relevant to 2010.
We have Spike Lee and other Black directors if they want do a movie a different way then do it, we're waiting... press them on it rather than going back in a time machine to 1956 Hopefully they would use North African actors
Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Try to get serious for once. It's your photo who's quality is in question with its obviously washed hues.
The yellow is only in Nofret's skin tone, nowhere else.
Some of us have books and frequent libraries. Cyril Aldred, once Keeper of the Department of Art and Archaelogy of the Royal Scottish Museum in Edinburgh describes the pair's skin tones in these words
quote: Convention is followed in the skin colouring, reddish- brown for the man, and creamy yellow for the woman. Re-hotep was high-priest of Heliopolis and commander of the army. Nofret a member of the court. The statues, found intact in a tomb near the pyramid of Maidum, are the finest examples of early Old Kingdom painted statuary to survive, c.2620 BC.
on page 108 of his Egypt to the End of the Old Kingdom published by Thames & Hudson in London the year 1965.
That's the caption for the photo of the pair on page 109.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: This poorer qulaity photo obviously has a yellow cast to the entire thing the white chairs are showing as much yellow as her dress.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
Just watched the Ten Commandments, not one indigenous Egyptian, not one that looked anything like the above.
So why the focus on the few whitened up artifacts?
I assume it is a nice fantasy.
You say that Nofret's skin tone was scrubbed intentionally to make her look lighter than Rahotep but why was Rahotep not scrubbed to that same skin tone?
The Ten Commandments is a 54 year old movie it is not relevant to 2010.
We have Spike Lee and other Black directors if they want do a movie a different way then do it, we're waiting... press them on it rather than going back in a time machine to 1956 Hopefully they would use North African actors [/QB]
I actually didn't say that. I said it either peeled off or was scrubbed off. I clearly said that I doubt it was intentional. Could just be a matter of time and poor choice in maintenance/cleaning agents. I would think the Rahtop statue was actually darker in the past as the paint appears to show some fading as well.
It would serve your purpose if you actually found 20 or 30 examples of art similar from that time period and then that would authenticate it. Problem is that I personally only see this one couple that looks this way but funny thing is that at Barnes & Noble the Egyptian books all show this couple. Like I said, that is to be expected since the authors of these books are White and naturally look for artifacts that they feel related to.
Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Try to get serious for once. It's your photo who's quality is in question with its obviously washed hues.
The yellow is only in Nofret's skin tone, nowhere else.
Some of us have books and frequent libraries. Cyril Aldred, once Keeper of the Department of Art and Archaelogy of the Royal Scottish Museum in Edinburgh describes the pair's skin tones in these words
quote: Convention is followed in the skin colouring, reddish- brown for the man, and creamy yellow for the woman. Re-hotep was high-priest of Heliopolis and commander of the army. Nofret a member of the court. The statues, found intact in a tomb near the pyramid of Maidum, are the finest examples of early Old Kingdom painted statuary to survive, c.2620 BC.
on page 108 of his Egypt to the End of the Old Kingdom published by Thames & Hudson in London the year 1965.
That's the caption for the photo of the pair on page 109.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: This poorer qulaity photo obviously has a yellow cast to the entire thing the white chairs are showing as much yellow as her dress.
Here's your purposely chosen bad quality photo:
_______________________________________
Here's the photo I posted, not in great focus, but the color is correct
You went into google and purposely found the most yellow color version of the many versions . This obvious because in my photo the chair is white but in your photo it has a light yellowish tint. Then that same yellowish goes over everything, like the skin tone because the camera is not adjusted right. We have all seen amateur yellowish photos That's phoney baloney trickery.
This is why you did not simply copy and paste my photo which would have been quicker and more convenient. And you got busted trying to manipulate.
If you don't like this sculpture there is more integrity in maintain it's fake or the skin tone as is falls in the range of African diversity
Or we can get into photo sources and their dates.
the woman is light sand color not yellow
Posts: 42935 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
6) we are all sick people obsessing over the superficial quality of skin tone thinking it's relevant dividing the world into black and white artificially for political reasons
------------------------------------------------
it is a sick racist world and WE ARE THE CURE!
Now take your pill!
Of course Egypt had diverse skin colors and appearance but the portrayal of Egypt has been one sided and a complete fabrication by people of European heritage who are unwilling to see the truth of African genuis due to centuries of a culture built upon the enslavement of West African people. W
When you are successful you assume you are right and so does the rest of the world.
-------------------- Across the sea of time, there can only be one of you. Make you the best one you can be. Posts: 4028 | From: NW USA | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Stark difference has anyone been to the Cairo museum to see this up close and personal or has a larger amateur pic somewhere ? in this version above at-least color wise it's not so different from other statues of the era, There would still be a problem with other aspects of the statues as pointed out by Ampim.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: "It's a mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: The best way to compile inaccurate information that no one wants is to make it up.
Watching a little Sherlock Holmes lately are we...
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
If female deities were painted yellow for symbolic reasons Nofret would not be painted yellow because she was not a deity or having to do with symbolism.
This is absurd. The yellowish pigmentation was not reserved for female deities. It is a figment of your imagination.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
^ I'm not saying this is the case with the women in those videos, but I have noticed a disturbing trend among Ethiopian and Eritrean women to bleach their skins especially right before marriage. This trend is still prevalent in some West African countries.
But speaking of bleaching, again paint fading off is definitely the reason of the appearance of the statues.
Posts: 26280 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by alTakruri: Funny how so-called "restoration" techniques wash away color hues in select instances. In this photo we see the lady Nofret has the canonical feminine skin tone painted onto the sculptured limestone which, except for the foot rests, were whitewashed.
Although certain characteristics of the pair are puzzling they were inside a sealed unrobbed mastaba when found.
What do you mean by color hues being washed away in select instances and what exactly is puzzling about the statues being discovered inside a sealed unrobbed mastaba?
Posts: 175 | From: Who knows? | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: How about more depictions of Nofret?
Will you quit spamming every single topic on this site with images? None of those images represent the noblewoman Nofret who lived during the old kingdom.
Posts: 175 | From: Who knows? | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: How about more depictions of Nofret?
Will you quit spamming every single topic on this site with images? None of those images represent the noblewoman Nofret who lived during the old kingdom.
Those images are from archeological Egyptology books, German scholarship.
Not your favorite opinion. Fake account "impostor Coptic".
Now, will you stop spamming the threads with your eurocentric rubbish claiming African civilazation as Eurasian/ Caucasion. With your psuedo eyebology approach.
You obviously never have seen any of the sitescenes in real life, other then for pictures you brows for over the internet.lol
*Always the same dumb responses. By this indevidual. lol
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: ^^^ all it is is a lousey photo, not a conspiracy
All it is, is a bundle of multiple depiction's by Nofret. You obviously have a problem with them and don't like them for a particular reason. Hmmm, "imposter black woman".lol
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic