I was watching a show (The office) and the following was stated and it's pretty sad to hear what was said, as they note that it is a quote from an encyclopedia as fact. I couldnt find a video linkage but here goes the conversation clipped in script form...
quote: Dwight Shrute: Kelly is disqualified!
Dwight Shrute: You said the program is not open to Caucasians. Well, [opens encyclopedia] anthropologically she is Indian. Indians migrated from the Caucasus region of Europe. Therefore technically she is Caucasian. [to camera] You're welcome America.
Gabe: Yeah but she's not white though.
Dwight Shrute: Well, obviously, she's, brown-ish but, come on I mean Darryl is far more, ethnic.
Gabe: Darryl withdrew his application. The dates of the Yale program interfered with his softball league so, he's gone.
At first I laughed at the ignorance, but then quickly began to realize that this is probably what many misinformed individuals think, and continuously are being taught around the world to this day which is outrageously saddening.
Im glad you bring this up MOM, yesterday I was watching a program on history channel about "Who Discovered America" before Columbus. Of course in typical Euocentric fasion they left out the expiditions of Mali Explorer Abu Bakri 2, but thats another conversation...
They made a comment that Ice Age Europeans came to the Americas first and later the PaleoIndians, the two groups came together to form the Clovis Indians.
Of course they made it clear its not offical not does it have wide support but come on, you know how people think. I mean you have folks thinking Quatzacotl was a Blue eyed bearded man, when that was nothing but Spanish distortion.
Ill try to dig up more infor on the name of these "Ice Age" Europeans, I would have jotted the name down and brought it up here but it was so silly an Idea that I thought no one would be interested...
Glad you brought this up...good timing.
Posts: 7970 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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As demonstrated in Museum art, Television and Movies
A surprising number of people, do not understand that Museum Art, Movies, and Television, reflect what is called "Artistic license" (also known as dramatic license, historical license, poetic license, narrative license, licentia poetica, or simply license), it is a colloquial term, or euphemism, used to denote the distortion of fact.Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Oh ya, sorry. I should have known not to interfere when Albinos are engaged in their favorite pastime "playing make-believe".
He he, making believe that Indians would identify with you, just makes that little pink thing stiff, doesn't it. Sorry, all the ones that I have known identify themselves as Black, some are downright radical about it.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Anybody familiar with the Indian sub-continent knows that it comprises of populations of diverse biohistories, comprising of groups more reflective of the ancestral substratum of OOA migrants on one hand, and groups of more recent lineage, on the other. I'm assuming that by linking Indians to the caucasus, the proponents are alluding to hg R lineage. Should that be the case, even that idea is fairly questionable on material grounds. Of the alternative origin-postulations presented with any semblance of evidence, none of them place hg R origin in the Caucasus.
Posts: 7516 | From: L‘un et seulement terrain de Bennu-Ausar | Registered: Jan 2008
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Like Mike tries to teach you: Europeans lie and use history to keep African and Black people down.Any statement that Indians originated in Caucasus is the attempt by Europeans to increase their numbers by making Indians " honorary whites".
First of all the relationship between European languages and the Indo-Aryan languages is based on the Greek rule of India and much of Central asia for 100's of years. Greek elements entered Sanskrit because of the Greek speakers who lived in North India when Panini wrote his grammar of Sanaskrit-which is a lingua franca.
Origin Arya people
You asked what language the Arya spoke. I believe they spoke Hurrian, Mitanni and some petty Iranian language.
I believe that after the Hittites defeated the Hatti and Kaska and other peoples belonging to the Hurrian and Mitanni kingdoms, these people were uprooted and forced into Iran. The lost of Anatolia to the Hittites, probably forced these people to become nomads.
In Iran they probably formed a significant portion of the Proto-Arya population. Here they may have met Indo-Iranian speaking people,who may have practiced a hunter-gatherer existence,that adopted aspects of their culture , especially the religion and use of Mitanni religious terms and chariot culture.
Joining forces with the Mitannian-Hurrian exiles they probably attacked Dravidian and Austronesian speaking people who probably lived in walled cities. The Austronesian and Dravidian people probably came in intimate contact during the Xia and Shang periods of China.
I have to reject the Afghanistan origin for the Indo-Iranian speaking people because the cultures there in ancient times show no affinity to Indo-European civilization. Given the Austronesian and Dravidian elements in Sanskrit and etc., I would have to date the expansion of the Indo-Aryan people sometime after 800 BC, across Iran, India down into Afghanistan, since the Austronesia people probably did not begin to enter India until after the fall of the Anyang Shang Dynasty sometime after 1000 BC. This would explain why you declare that "the Vedic and Avestan mantras are not carbon copies of each other", they may have had a similar genesis, but they were nativised by different groups of Indic and Iranian speakers after the settlement of nomadic Hurrian and Mitanni people in Iran.
Posts: 12400 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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The Indian people are usually categorized by the languages they speak. Thus we have the Munda, Austro-Asiatic, Indo-Aryan and Dravidian speakers. The oldest group are the Munda, next the Dravidian, Indo-Aryan and finally Austro-Asiatic.
The mtDNA of Munda speakers show a deep rooted ancestry in India. Thangaraj et al (2009) using coalescence time and archaeological evidence illustrated that the TRMCA for mtDNA R8 which is found among Munda speakers have the following dates : R8 (41.7 kya), R8a (15.4 kya) and R8b (27.7 kya). The dating for mtDNA R8 indicates that this haplogroup and R7 are probably autochthonus to India. The mtDNA of Munda speakers also includes deep rooted haplogroups from macrohaplogroup M. In addition to mtDNA haplogroup M2, we also find M58, M31, M6a2 and M42 among Munda speakers.The Munda carry the oldest lineages in Sub-Continent. The lineages of other Indian populations are quite recent.
It is correct that India has a diverse population. For example, the Mundari speaking Austro-Asiatic speakers and Dravidian speakers share common physical features. In recent years Hindu nationalist have spread the lie that they have always been in India and that the Indo-Aryan people spread from India to other parts of the world. This is false.
Reich et al, Reconstructing Indian population history, Nature 461:489-494 claims that the Indian Cline divides Indians into two groups Ancestral North Indians (ANI) and Ancestral South Indians (ANS). The ANI are related to western Eurasians and speak Indo-Euopean languages. The ANS on the otherhand speak Dravidian languages.
This genetic data clearly divides the North and South Indians, and supports AIT; and the replacement of an original Dravidian speaking people in the north by the invading Indo-European speaking Vedic people.
The Dravidian speakers only arrived in India 5kya from Africa. The Dravidians belonged to the C-Group culture of Nubia.
Dravidian tribal populations and Africans also share several y-chromosome, HLA and mtDNA (Winters,2010). Shared y-chromosomes include H1, K2 or Y-DNA T-M70 (11%). The Highest frequency of T-M70 in the world is found among the Fulani. In relation to y-chromosome H1, 22% of Dravidians carry this haplogroup.
Sickle cell anemia is frequent among Africans and Dravidian Tribal populations. It is interesting that the Arab-Indian and Senegal haplotypes are both associated with a C!T mutation at position -158.
mtDNA Haplogroup M
The Dravidians belong to the M macrohaplogroup. Shared Afro-Indo M haplogroups include M1, M30, and M33. The M1 haplogroup was especially evident among high caste people in Kerela.
"The TMRCA of the European E-V13 chromosomes turns out to be 4.0–4.7 ky (under 2 different demographic expansion scenarios, see Subjects and Methods; 95% CI 3.5–4.6 ky and 4.1–5.3 ky, respectively)."
Posts: 19028 | From: pAsidaw SIGILLUM SECRETUM | Registered: Nov 2010
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R1b-M412 appears to be the most common Y-chromosome haplogroup in Western Europe (470%), while being virtually absent in the Near East, the Caucasus and West Asia
R1b1b2a1a (S21+), previously known as R1b1b2a
Unusually short DYS458 alleles (DYS458.2) are associated with R1b1b2a1 (S21, aka M405). Cases of this allele have so far been detected in Ireland, England, Germany, the Netherlands and the U.S.(1-5%) and this appears to a unique west European marker. The DYS458.2 allele also occurs independently in the Y-chromosome J1 subclade.
The R1b1b2a1 (S21+) is a prominent R1b subclade and is likely the major subclade in resolving identity after the R1b1b2 (M269+) subclade. It frequency is highest in the Dutch (35%) and it is also rather high in England, Germany, Austria, Denmark, Czech Republic and Switzerland (13-23%). This region overlaps origins of Germanic groups, such as the Anglo-Saxons in Frisia. It does not appear to have extended its reach beyond West and Central Europe (except recent migration to the U.S.).
The levels of the R1b1b2a (S127+) subclade in conjunction with other R subclades have not been reported to date.
R1b1b2a1a1 (S29+), previously known as R1b1b2a1a
The R1b1b2a1a1 subclade is defined by SNP S29. This subclade has not been widely studied, but current results show it the Netherlands, Denmark, England, Germany and Russia (1-2%). A small frequency of the R1b1b2a1a1 (S29+) subclade has also been found at a low level in the U.S.(~1%).
There is another independent Haplogroup R sub-lineage designated R2. R2 is likely to have originated (~25kya) in South Asia, around India/Pakistan. The R2 subclade is highest in East India (50-60%) and Sri Lanka (75%). Some R2 has been observed in the Caucasus and Central Asia (e.g. Nepal), but it has not spread beyond these regions, except with a Gypsy population (Sinte Romani), which likely originated in India. There is relatively high level in Kurds in Georgia (44% of Kurmanji) and this population is likely an outcome of a bottleneck and genetic drift.
The central Sahel is characterized by a strong linguistic fragmentation with populations speaking languages belonging to three of the four linguistic families of Africa (Afroasiatic, Niger-Congo, and Nilo-Saharan).
When the linguistic afﬁliation of the populations from the central Sahel was also taken into account, a clear-cut divide was observed between those speaking Afroasiatic languages (including the Berber-speaking Tuareg, the Semitic Arab Shuwa, and Chadic-speaking populations from northern Cameroon) and the other populations (Mann–Whitney test P¼1.4103), with Chadic-speaking populations mostly contributing to this difference. It is worth noting that, if the ﬁnding of 20% R-V88 chromosomes among the Hausa (Table 1) is representative, this population, encompassing by far more people than all other Chadic speakers, 44 also encompasses the highest absolute number of V88 carriers. In contrast to prior studies on nuclear (mostly autosomal) ins/del and microsatellite markers, 45 the Chadic are distinguished from the Nilo-Saharan-speaking populations at the Y chromosome variation level.
Repeated assimilations of Nilo-Saharan females over generations may account for these con- ﬂicting signals. Among the Niger-Congo-speaking populations, the frequency of the haplogroup R-V88 ranged between 0.0 and 66.7%. Outside central Africa, haplogroup R-V88 was only observed in Afroasiatic-speaking populations from northern Africa, with frequencies ranging from 0.3% in Morocco, to 3.0% in Algeria, and to 11.5% in Egypt, where a particularly high frequency (26.9%) was observed among the Berbers from the Siwa Oasis.
This haplo is near zero to 1% in some South European populations! HOW COME?Posts: 19028 | From: pAsidaw SIGILLUM SECRETUM | Registered: Nov 2010
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