posted
There is so much Afrocentric rubbish on this forum about ancient Greece, so i thought i would expose the truth on this matter.
The Negro in Ancient Greece
Two initial points to consider:
1. No one denies that there were Negro populations in ancient Greece, as there is a classical record that documents them.
2. The following article was written by Frank Snowden (d. 2007), an African-American Classicist and one of the foremost authorities on blacks in classical antiquity.
After reading this, several facts are clear:
1. As early as the 8th century BC - the ancient Greeks physically distinguished themselves to the Negro or Ethiopian racial type in their writings. 2. The ancient Greeks were not black. 3. There were small populations of blacks in ancient Greece, but they were not considered to be Greek, but foreign. 4. Blackness of skin was attributed to the Ethiopians of the far south, and the ancient Greeks did not have dark skin.
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posted
Yes Cassiterides the Greeks never claimed to be blacks,but they did claimed as part of their ancestry in the form of Kadmos and Egyptos, the Danaë Black and smitten by the sun,this is backed up by Bio-anthropology in Angel's Greek and Anatolian first farmers and genetics Larry Angel (1972): "one can identify Negroid traits of nose and prognathism appearing in Natufian latest hunters.(McCown, 1939) and in Anatolian and Macedonian first farmers, probably from Nubia via the predecesors of the Badarians and Tasians..."
Read more: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:xc0AXynjGFAJ:egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi%3Fboard%3Dhist%26action%3Ddisplay%26thread%3D99+Greek+and+Anatolian+fi rst+farmers+Christopher+Ehret&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk#ixzz1C30WtOwx And Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the “older” Mediterranenan substratum, 3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1034/j.1399-0039.2001.057002118.x/abstract Now as far as the pre-Hellenes go According to Hodel-Hoenes & Warburton register 1: the prince of Punt register 2: princes of Crete and Mediterranean islands register 3: princes of southern lands and the Antiu (cavern dwellers) register 4: princes of Retenu and northern lands clear to the far north register 5: captive children of southern and northern lands for workshops Read more: ]http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=egyto&action=display&thread=95&page=2#ixzz1C33LxSQA Now despite all the above I still would not proclaim the classical Greeks blacks although they undoubtedly carry black ancestry.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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According to the Olympian Creation Myth the earliest groups to appear on earth were the Libyco-Thracians .Libya is in Africa.
The city of Argo was founded by Phoroneus, the father of Pelasgus, Iasus and Agenor. It was these folks who divided the Peloponnese between them. The Pelasgian founding of Athens is also noted by Plutarch in Theseus 12, and Ovid in Metamorphosis vii.402ff. According to Herodotus vii.91, the Pelasgians also founded Thebes in Europe
In the Iliad Agamemnon is decribed as xanthos, which means brown in Greek, not white.Agamemnon is in direct descent from Epaphos, the Black ancestor of the Pelasgic house. Aeschylus in Prometheus Bound, describes Epaphos as "swarthy of hue" and that he originally lived in Africa.
The Pelasgians were the first settlers of Greecian region.
As I noted earlier the sea referes to the deep waves of the ocean which are blackest or dark. The Pelasgic race decends from Inachus the river god and son of Oceanus. The son of Inachus was Phoroneus. Pelasgus was the son of Argus. All of these individuals were Black like the deep waves of the ocean
Xanthos means brown stupid racist. Hom er respected his Black brothers. That's why he has Zeus visit Ethiopia to dine with other Negroes. Thus Aeschylus wrote: "And Thou shalt bear a child of Zeus begotten, Epapos, 'Touch born', swarthy of hue".
This shows the Greeks were not white. You can not find any dark skinned Europeans with Blond hair. These people were not whites.
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Arnaiz-Villena A, et al. Tissue Antigens. HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks.2001 Feb;57(2):118-27 Arnaiz-Villena A, et al.The correlation between languages and genes: the Usko-Mediterranean peoples. Hum Immunol. 2001 Sep;62(9):1051-61 Arnaiz-Villena A, et al.Population genetic relationships between Mediterranean populations determined by HLA allele distribution and a historic perspective. Tissue Antigens.2002 Aug;60(2):111-21
• Here is a study confirming the Arnaiz-Villena findings: HLA genes in Southern Tunisians (Ghannouch area) and their Relationship with other Mediterraneans European Journal of Medical Genetics, Volume 49, Issue 1, January-February 2006, Pages 43-56, by A. Hajjej, S. Hmida, H. Kaabi, A. Dridi, A. Jridi, A. El Gaa1ed and K. Boukef
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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Xanthos means red-yellow which equals brown: a group of colors between red and yellow in hue that are medium to low in lightness and low to moderate in saturation
• The Mycenaeans were not white. Homer claimed that Mycenae was ruled by Agamemnon. In the Iliad Agamemnon is decribed as xanthos, which means brown in Greek, not white.Agamemnon is in direct descent from Epaphos, the Black ancestor of the Pelasgic house. Aeschylus in Prometheus Bound, describes Epaphos as "swarthy of hue" and that he originally lived in Africa. The Pelasgians were the first settlers of Greecian region.
• The first migrants to Crete were Garamantes according to Classics. The Garamantes were recognized as a Black tribe. They were known to the Greeks and Romans as dark skinned. In Ptolemy (I.8.5.,p.31) a Garamante slave was described as having a body the color of pitch or wholly black. The Garamante lived in the Fezzan/Libya, not Turkey. The first AMH in Europe carried hg M, not R1b. The whites did not enter Greece until after 800BC from Asia minor.
Linguistic
• The Pelasgians did not speak Greek they spoke Achaioi or Achaean. West Greek was spoken by the Dorian the Ionians spoke a dialect of East Greek called Aeolic. Dr.Anna M. Davies,says "less than 40% of the words which have an Indo-European etymology".Davies, said 52.2 % Greek terms in Chantraine's Dictionnaire Etymologique de la langue Grecque have unknown etymology. This is due to the African origin of Greece.
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Firstly xanthos means yellow, and it was mostly only applied to hair colour not skin colour.
Aνθος/Xanthós/Xanthos/Xanthus
In ancient Greek Xanthos (άνθος) = a shade of yellow, blonde, gold.
A Homeric Dictionary for Schools and Colleges, 1891):
‘‘ξανθός (xanthos): ''reddish-yellow, blond or auburn (flavus).’’
Xantho- Xan"tho- A combining form from Greek xanqo`s yellow. Xanthic Xan"thic adjective [ Greek xanqo`s yellow: confer French xanthique .] 1. Tending toward a yellow colour’’
Achilles is described as ''sandy haired'' i.e blonde (Iliad, I. 207).
Achilles is described as white skinned (leukodi) by Homer (Iliad, 11.570):
''...and himself stood between Trojans and Achaeans, battling furiously. And the spears hurled by bold hands were some of them lodged in his great shield, as they sped onward, and many, ere ever they reached his white body(leukodi), stood fixed midway in the earth, fain to glut themselves with flesh.''
leukodi/leuko/leukon/leukos meaning:
A. white. B. of the human skin, white, fair
- Henry George Liddell. A Greek-English Lexicon. Oxford. Clarendon Press. 1940.
Yet virtually none of the ancient Greek or Trojan Gods or figures are described as melas, but always Leukos (white).
Aphrodite is described always as pale white (leukon) skinned:
"…her soft neck and snow-white skinned breasts” - Homeric Hymn VI to Aphrodite
From Euripides we also have a quote, describing Dionysus as white skinned:
[Pentheus addresses Dionysus:] “Your body is not ill-formed, stranger, for women's purposes . . . For your hair is long, not through wrestling, scattered over your cheeks, full of desire; and you have a white skin from careful preparation, hunting after Aphrodite by your beauty not exposed to strokes of the sun, but beneath the shade.” - Bacchae, 455
Enjoy:
Apollo is always depicted as blonde in ancient greek art:
More on Apollo:
In his elegy Eunomia, Tyrtaeos wrote around 600 BC:
"The love of money and naught else shall ruin Sparta. ... Thus hath golden-haired Apollo prophesied from his rich shrine."
(quoted in Ancient Greece: Myth and History, by H B Cotterill, 2004, p.187).
Aristophanes in his Birds also wrote Apollo (epithet: Phoebus) was golden haired:
''...right up to the throne of Zeus, where Phoebus listens to you, Phoebus with his golden hair.''
Chrysocomes means ''of the golden locks'' not a sword.
Pindar also wrote in Isthmean, XII: ''But grant to us, Loxias, luxuriant with your golden hair.'' (Loxias was another epithet for Apollo).
Atalanta (Aelian, Varia Historia, XIII. 1):
''Her hair was golden, not due to feminine sophistication, dyes, or applications, but the colour was natural.''
Eros (Anacreon, Frg. 358: ‘‘...again golden-haired Eros’’).
Harmonia (Medea, 834: ''...were brought to birth by Harmonia with the golden hair'', Strabo (Geographica, 1 . 2) also notes of a tomb of blonde haired Harmonia in Illyria: ''..beside the tomb-stone of blonde Harmonia''
Jason The Argonautica of Apollonius tells us that
"Jason was a handsome northern aristocrat with long blond hair ...."
quoted by Harvard Archaeologist Mauricio Obregón in Beyond the Sea (NY: The Modern Library, 2001), citing the Argonautica.)
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''Agamemnon is in direct descent from Epaphos, the Black ancestor of the Pelasgic house. Aeschylus in Prometheus Bound, describes Epaphos as "swarthy of hue" and that he originally lived in Africa.'' =========
And yet Io, the mother of Epaphus is physically described as white skinned.
Ovid (Metamorphoses, 1. 712 ff):
''And now imperial Juno, pacified, permitted Io to resume her form,— at once the hair fell from her snowy sides;the horns absorbed, her dilate orbs decreased;the opening of her jaws contracted; hands appeared and shoulders; and each transformed hoof became five nails. And every mark or form that gave the semblance of a heifer changed,except her fair white skin''
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So-called scholars can say what they wish about the appearance of the ancient Greeks of Homer's Illiad, for instance. But, those contemporary with those times leave us, among other things images found in the following:
Wide nose does not always automatically mean negro ancestry. The above Dane is fully white.
You also said the following:
''While the newcomers colonists i.e suitors…were said to have flowing hair.''
Nope that's false, we are told quite clear that the native Greek populations were always straight haired.
The ancient Greeks knew they were straight haired (ἴθυ-θριξ , τρι^χος), as well as other northern populations, while in sharp contrast the western ethiopians (Black Africans) woolly haired. Aristotle for example wrote (Gen. An. 5.3.782B):
‘‘Scythians on the Black Sea and the Thracians are straight-haired, for they themselves and the environing air are moist, whereas the Aethiopians and men in the hottest countries are curly-haired…’’
Long straight hair was worn by the Spartans from the age of puberty (Plutarch, Lyc. 16).
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posted
''Zeus dined with blameless ethiopians'' ====
There were two separate lands called Ethiopia (Aethiopia/Aithiopia) in Greek myth. The first and better known out of the two was placed in modern Lebanon (ancient Phoenicia), Arabia, Iran or India (the east) and was often called eastern Ethiopia to distinguish itself from the lesser known western Ethiopia.
According to the distinguished lexicographer William Smith in his Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology (1849):
‘‘(Eastern "Aithiopia") and sub-saharan Africa (Western "Aithiopia"), two realms which were believed to lie in the farthest south along the shore of the Ocean-stream.’’
From Homer and Strabo (Od, 1. 22; Geo, 1. 1. 6) we are also informed there were two lands called Ethiopia, one east, and one west:
''Now Poseidon had gone off to the Ethiopians, who are at the world's end, and lie in two halves, the one looking West and the other East''
Consider the following ancient sources which place eastern Ethiopia outside of Africa, starting with a preface of Appian's Foreign Wars:
‘‘…as one sails up the Nile, as far as eastern Ethiopia’’
Clearly eastern Ethiopia was considered north of Egypt (up the Nile) and did not sit in Africa.
This is also found in the major work of Thucydides (2. 48):
‘‘...in the parts of Ethiopia above Egypt…’’
The Ethiopians described by Homer were not Black Africans, but were inhabitants of the Middle-East.
Posidonius placed the Ethiopians Zeus visited in Mesopotamia (Vol. 2, Posidonius, Cambridge University Press, 1999, I. G. Kidd, p. 955).
So the ethiopians Zeus visited were not black, but were straight haired Asiatics according to Herodotus.
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quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: Haemoglobin does not appear under dark skin, only light skin types. Hence why the peoples of Europe have been called ruddy or red for centuries.
Only fair white skin can be sunburnt red as well, dark does not turn red.
''Redlegs was a term used to refer to the class of poor whites that lived on colonial Barbados, St. Vincent, Grenada and a few other Caribbean islands...According to folk etymology, the name is derived from the effects of the tropical sun on their fair-skinned legs.
''Originally used in reference to poor, white farmers, Redneck is historically a derogatory slang term to refer to working class Southerners in the United States...probably derived from individuals having a red neck caused by working outdoors in the sun.
''Let he children of Pelops perish when it comes to a comparison with the shoulder of Perseus! for beautiful as he is and ruddy of face'' - Philostratus Elder, Imagines, I
''So he was lifted by the dancing feet of the others, with red skin, his whole face emitting ruddy rays and shining between, them, the very image of the crescent moon.'' - Nonnus, Dionysiaca 18. 93
''...who is named with the name of this land, ruddy Bacchus to whom Bacchants cry'' - Sophocles, Oedipus Tyrannus, 210
''But ruddy Ceres in mid heat is mown, And in mid heat the parched ears are bruised'' - Virgil, Georgics 1. 287
Rosy-fingered (ῥοδο-δάκτυλος) was an epithet for Eos.
Ruddy was also applied to physically describe ordinary Greek (and Roman) citizens:
''TRACHALIO Have you seen to-day, while you've been standing here, any young man, of courageous aspect, ruddy, stout, of genteel appearance, come by this way, who was taking with him three men in scarfs, with swords?'' - T. Maccius Plautus, Rudens 2.2
''PAMPHILUS Then I'll tell you how to know it; a huge fellow, ruddy, with curly hair, fat, with gray eyes and freckled countenance.'' - P. Terentius Afer (Terence), Hecyra III. 4
Most Roman emperors were also described as ''ruddy''.
Suetonius describing Emperor Domitian:
''He was tall in stature, his face modest, and very ruddy; he had large eyes, but was dim-sighted; naturally graceful in his person, particularly in his youth..''
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posted
The Greek word for black i thought was "melanchros". There were medium light and dark complected "melanchros" people too.
They did not consider themselves black but i'm pretty sure *they* considered *most* Aethiopes black and that there were near eastern black ethiopians.
Now, as far as "up the Nile" goes, going downstream the Nile flows North. Going upriver you go South.
The Egyptian delta is North of much of Arabia. I say this not attempting to deny that there was an Eastern Ethiopia outside of Africa and possibly even reaching further North than Africa's Maghreb. Which, the Maghreb itself a "Western Ethiopia", was home to a diverse bunch of Ethiopians (including white ones). The fact white Ethiopians exist makes sense given that up to that point whenever whites entered what is today "Africa" whether as slaves or invaders they seemed to assimilate into African culture. And there are ancient "Egyptian" depictions of creamy toned folks living to the West but with dress different from the Asiatics to the East / North.
Ethiopia (a word of Greek derivation) may have came the AE (ancient egyptian) word for "frontier" but then again they didn't call inner Europe Ethiopia.
quote:Cass wrote:
‘‘…as one sails up the Nile, as far as eastern Ethiopia’’
Clearly eastern Ethiopia was considered north of Egypt (up the Nile) and did not sit in Africa.
What i'm wondering is the context of that citation.
By the way, and i'm not for the "Roman's were black" cry even though there were African and or black rulers slaves etc:
About Ruddy -- the red thing. Whites can have a red complexion yes but they aren't the only ones people've ever called red. My little bro was called red as a babe cuz he was real red blooded -- any emotion could cause him to turn REALLY red for a black person and he's like McNabb-Will Smith's range of color (medium). In the South light skinned black folk are called red bones and in sub-Saharan Africa people and groups are called red. Ancient Egyptians called both "Middle Eastern" and "Libyan" folk red.
I'm not saying the "ruddy" complected folk you mentioned looked like Wesley Snipes but they didn't all have to be albino white either.
One question though. My memory's foggy (more like non-existent); how do we know again that they ACTUALLY differed between the two Ethiopias? Or is it us in this modern day and age that do so?
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Where is the great Ancient Greece of Africa? Its strange how these Afrocrazed Negroes insist that they created so many things outside their own yard yet in their own yard we see virtually nothing of the Negro. No art, sculpture, architecture, nation nothing. Something is very wrong here.
Posts: 175 | From: Who knows? | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
Kemetian civ is the Greco-Roman civ of Africa. And you're a retard to say there was no art, sculpture nation or anything, and to ancient nation nutt-hug? You build that civilization? Ta fwog outta here
posted
''One question though. My memory's foggy (more like non-existent); how do we know again that they ACTUALLY differed between the two Ethiopias? Or is it us in this modern day and age that do so?'' =====
Because the cult of Zeus was in Mesopotamia and the Middle-east, not Africa. So the Ethiopia Zeus and the Greeks visited was obviously where they had colonies or a presence.
The Greeks had no colonies or communication with the peoples of far South Africa. So there had to have been two Ethiopias.
Also if you see the quote i pasted, we are told by Herodotus that both the Ethiopians looked different. The ethiopians of the far south were wooly haired while the ones to the north outside of Africa were straight haired.
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posted
''And you're a retard to say there was no art, sculpture nation or anything, and to ancient nation nutt-hug? You build that civilization? Ta fwog outta here'' ====
They had some stuff, but nothing compared to the great heights of Rome, Greece etc.
You know black sub-saharan africans couldn't even write to record their own history...
Not a single ancient black african text exists.
Who recorded the myths and legends of the black tribes across Africa? White Europeans did from around the 19th century...
I mean look how quickly Africa was colonised, europeans had guns and cannons while africans had wooden spears...
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Most like who? Athene the mother of the gods? Here is Athene:
MYTH NO. 8 –THE GREEK MYTHS: VOLUME 1
THE BIRTH OF ATHENE
According to the Pelasgians, the goddess Athene was born beside Lake Tritonis in Libya, where she was found and nurtured by the three nymphs of Libya, who dress in goat-skins. As a girl she killed her play-mate, Pallas, by accident, while they were engaged in friendly combat with spear and shield and, in token of grief, set Pallas’s name before her own. (hence the name PALLAS ATHENE) — Pg. 44
quote:Originally posted by Cassrida:
''Let he children of Pelops perish when it comes to a comparison with the shoulder of Perseus! for beautiful as he is and ruddy of face'' - Philostratus Elder, Imagines, I
Fake translation. Persus was Egyptian or Libyan by birth. he was an African.
The Greeks called the Egyptians melanopodes or black-legs. Not red necks or red legs ...
Here is Persus:
"Perseus was the son of Zeus and Danaë, who by her very name, was the archetype of all the Danaans."
More:
” The common Greek tradition is that the Dorian kings as far back as Perseus the son of Danae are as they stand in the accepted Greek lists. ……If on the other hand we trace the ancestry of Danae, the daughter of Acrisius we find that the Dorian chieftains are genuine Egyptians. This is the accepted Greek version of the genealogy of the Spartan Royal house.” –Herodotus, –Privilidges of Spartan Kings Pg 406 Herodotus- the Historiess Penguin Classsics.
Persus
Persus first revealed himself to the Egyptians. He is the God of the Egyptian city of Chemmis. It is said that..." Danaus and Lynceus were Chemmites before they sail to Greece where Persus was born" See Herodotus Book 2 page 162
quote:Originally posted by Cassrida:
''So he was lifted by the dancing feet of the others, with red skin, his whole face emitting ruddy rays and shining between, them, the very image of the crescent moon.'' - Nonnus, Dionysiaca 18. 93
Herodotus on the Egyptian origin of the Greek God: "...Horus is Appollo and Osiris is Dionysus" See Herodotus Book 2 at page 187 paragraph 2.
quote:''...who is named with the name of this land, ruddy Bacchus to whom Bacchants cry'' - Sophocles, Oedipus Tyrannus, 210
Bacchus... Bar-Cush! Son of Cush.
"The rites of Orphic and Bachus are actually Egyptian [in origin]..." See Herodotus Book 2 at 159
The cult of the Greek gods and goddesses come from Africa. Maybe Africans can now be seen as Red-necks too...
"It was the Africans ..who taught the Greeks to use ceremonial meetings, processions, and liturgies: a fact which can be inferred from obvious antiquity of such ceremonies in Africa, compared with Greece..." - Herodotus Bk 2 at 56
quote:Originally posted by Cassrida:
''But ruddy Ceres in mid heat is mown, And in mid heat the parched ears are bruised'' - Virgil, Georgics 1. 287
You are one shameless Liar. Here is the correct translation:
"... But Ceres’ golden grain is cut down in noonday heat, and in noonday heat the floor threshes the parched ears. Strip to plough, strip to sow; winter is the farmer’s lazy time." - Virgil, Georgics 1. 287 http://www.theoi.com/Text/VirgilGeorgics1.html
And dont forget that Virgil whom you are distorting his work was a Muurish Roman! Brown like the African earth.
Here is Virgilus the Muur:
......
quote:Originally posted by Cassrida: Ruddy was also applied to physically describe ordinary Greek (and Roman) citizens:
Maybe. But you also admitted the following:
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: There were non-white Roman emperors. This only happened though when Rome became a melting pot and lost its homogeneity.....
For arguments about the ethnicity of Romans and Greeks by extension, go here:
quote: ''PAMPHILUS blah...blah....'' - P. Terentius Afer (Terence), Hecyra III. 4
I do not think you realize this but Terentius Afer (the African) was a black African stolen by the Roman army directly from Africa. Go google that... lol!
quote: Most Roman emperors were also described as ''ruddy''.
Suetonius describing Emperor Domitian:
''He was tall in stature, his face modest, and very ruddy; he had large eyes, but was dim-sighted; naturally graceful in his person, particularly in his youth..''
Stupidness.. There were 400 Roman Emperors on record. So many of them were native born Africans... Have you heard about Emperor Pescennius Niger? Have you heard of Septimus Severus? Have you heard of Emperor Karakalla? here:
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: There were non-white Roman emperors. This only happened though when Rome became a melting pot and lost its homogeneity.....
Now respond again "scholar"...
Did the Greeks describe themselves as red necks? Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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The research of Parker (1917,1918) and Winters (1983b), when you and Lefkowitz (1992) argues that Socrates could not have been black because he was an Athenian citizen she is wrong. It is only your opinion. The Athenians were of African origin , a view supported by Greek traditions Traditions that make it clear that Pelasgians who were not Indo-European speakers founded Athens. Socrates was a citizen of Athen.
As a result, Socrates' racial heritage is confirmed by his birthright. The Greeks made it clear that the founders of Athens were Pelasgians or Blacks. So Socrates Afro-Greek heritage goes back to his Pelasgian roots.
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posted
This translations are all meant to rewrite history. As noted by Parker we can not trust the translators to tell the truth.
.
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: ''Achilles is xanthos 'brown''' ===
Firstly xanthos means yellow, and it was mostly only applied to hair colour not skin colour.
Aνθος/Xanthós/Xanthos/Xanthus
In ancient Greek Xanthos (άνθος) = a shade of yellow, blonde, gold.
A Homeric Dictionary for Schools and Colleges, 1891):
‘‘ξανθός (xanthos): ''reddish-yellow, blond or auburn (flavus).’’
Xantho- Xan"tho- A combining form from Greek xanqo`s yellow. Xanthic Xan"thic adjective [ Greek xanqo`s yellow: confer French xanthique .] 1. Tending toward a yellow colour’’
Achilles is described as ''sandy haired'' i.e blonde (Iliad, I. 207).
Achilles is described as white skinned (leukodi) by Homer (Iliad, 11.570):
''...and himself stood between Trojans and Achaeans, battling furiously. And the spears hurled by bold hands were some of them lodged in his great shield, as they sped onward, and many, ere ever they reached his white body(leukodi), stood fixed midway in the earth, fain to glut themselves with flesh.''
leukodi/leuko/leukon/leukos meaning:
A. white. B. of the human skin, white, fair
- Henry George Liddell. A Greek-English Lexicon. Oxford. Clarendon Press. 1940.
Yet virtually none of the ancient Greek or Trojan Gods or figures are described as melas, but always Leukos (white).
Aphrodite is described always as pale white (leukon) skinned:
"…her soft neck and snow-white skinned breasts” - Homeric Hymn VI to Aphrodite
From Euripides we also have a quote, describing Dionysus as white skinned:
[Pentheus addresses Dionysus:] “Your body is not ill-formed, stranger, for women's purposes . . . For your hair is long, not through wrestling, scattered over your cheeks, full of desire; and you have a white skin from careful preparation, hunting after Aphrodite by your beauty not exposed to strokes of the sun, but beneath the shade.” - Bacchae, 455
Enjoy:
Apollo is always depicted as blonde in ancient greek art:
More on Apollo:
In his elegy Eunomia, Tyrtaeos wrote around 600 BC:
"The love of money and naught else shall ruin Sparta. ... Thus hath golden-haired Apollo prophesied from his rich shrine."
(quoted in Ancient Greece: Myth and History, by H B Cotterill, 2004, p.187).
Aristophanes in his Birds also wrote Apollo (epithet: Phoebus) was golden haired:
''...right up to the throne of Zeus, where Phoebus listens to you, Phoebus with his golden hair.''
Chrysocomes means ''of the golden locks'' not a sword.
Pindar also wrote in Isthmean, XII: ''But grant to us, Loxias, luxuriant with your golden hair.'' (Loxias was another epithet for Apollo).
Atalanta (Aelian, Varia Historia, XIII. 1):
''Her hair was golden, not due to feminine sophistication, dyes, or applications, but the colour was natural.''
Eros (Anacreon, Frg. 358: ‘‘...again golden-haired Eros’’).
Harmonia (Medea, 834: ''...were brought to birth by Harmonia with the golden hair'', Strabo (Geographica, 1 . 2) also notes of a tomb of blonde haired Harmonia in Illyria: ''..beside the tomb-stone of blonde Harmonia''
Jason The Argonautica of Apollonius tells us that
"Jason was a handsome northern aristocrat with long blond hair ...."
quoted by Harvard Archaeologist Mauricio Obregón in Beyond the Sea (NY: The Modern Library, 2001), citing the Argonautica.)
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: Yes Cassiterides the Greeks never claimed to be blacks,but they did claimed as part of their ancestry in the form of Kadmos and Egyptos, the Danaë Black and smitten by the sun,this is backed up by Bio-anthropology in Angel's Greek and Anatolian first farmers and genetics Larry Angel (1972): "one can identify Negroid traits of nose and prognathism appearing in Natufian latest hunters.(McCown, 1939) and in Anatolian and Macedonian first farmers, probably from Nubia via the predecesors of the Badarians and Tasians..."
Read more: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:xc0AXynjGFAJ:egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi%3Fboard%3Dhist%26action%3Ddisplay%26thread%3D99+Greek+and+Anatolian+fi rst+farmers+Christopher+Ehret&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk#ixzz1C30WtOwx And Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the “older” Mediterranenan substratum, 3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1034/j.1399-0039.2001.057002118.x/abstract Now as far as the pre-Hellenes go According to Hodel-Hoenes & Warburton register 1: the prince of Punt register 2: princes of Crete and Mediterranean islands register 3: princes of southern lands and the Antiu (cavern dwellers) register 4: princes of Retenu and northern lands clear to the far north register 5: captive children of southern and northern lands for workshops Read more: ]http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=egyto&action=display&thread=95&page=2#ixzz1C33LxSQA Now despite all the above I still would not proclaim the classical Greeks blacks although they undoubtedly carry black ancestry.
Excellent references Brada. Frank Snowden, valuable as some of his work is, was not an anthropologist or archaelogist, and could did not go beyond current knowledge in the 1960s when he wrote his book. He also subscribed to the true negro model of his day in the 1940, 1950s and 1960s. Any credible discussion of "the negro" in ancient Greece must include the DNA evidence.
and in your grand procession picture Brada, aren't some of the Egyptians painted in the same brown skin tones as the "negro" princes from the southern lands?
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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Dude, sorry, skimmed that post. You provided the quotes i was thinking of, them in their own words differentiating between the two lands. And directly, though I would have accepted indirect as well. I thought i recalled some'm on their hair being different.
As far as written language goes that's wrong. European derived scripts like the alphabet we're using now derive from Greco-Roman which derives from Phoenician and Nile Valley (African) scripts.
In fact sub-Saharan folks did have written language before colonization -- although mostly in Arabic script (which traces back to the Nile Valley, even Biblical Ishmael's mother being Egyptian) and at times even language (which is Semetic which branches from Afroasiatic which originates in ... sub-Saharan Africa). One of the scripts fully in used in their own language was Ancient Egyptian -- Kemet (or ancient "Egypt" a Greek i.e. Euro-colonial word) was not fully North of the Sahara at the dawn of its civilization; the Sahara had not yet even grown to stretch South past "Egypt" in early Dynastic times lol. Some writers from the time (i think) of Mali write of them as having the most advanced physicians in the known (Islamic) world at the time. Binary script (without which we would not have computers) is traced back to Renaissance Spain through to Mali or something but few know it's used in games for fun further South of the Sahara.
It's funny you mention the European conquest of Africa -- in South Eastern Africa this was generally the case, rapid and fairly unimpeded murdering (other than the Zulu and others). But if you were aware of what the Ashante which had *women* in their military and the Sudanese-Egyptian Beja (Brits called them "Fuzzy Wuzzies" -- there was a poem written for what they did to the British square) did to the British you'd know you look like an ass making such a sweeping generalization.
The British didn't swoop in and take Ashante territory. They thought they wanted a piece of the Ashante when they got their balls handed back to them early on in the 19th Century or 1800s. They came back late in the 19th Century and defeated the Ashante in like 1900. Britain owned the entire world using their British Square -- few withstood it.
Further, Euro imperialism in Africa is one of the most short lived Imperial Eras on earth. They still have influence today, but no longer any direct standing armies. If Africa (which was sparsely populated) hadn't had complex societies and states at around the time of European expansion in the 1400s or even Islamic expansion much earlier Africa would have ended up like the Indigenous Americas, and Australian Aboriginees, and that's the truth. I would also say Berbers, but many of their cultural practices are still intact. This is true for aboriginal folks in the Americas too, so let me qualify that with Native Americans (native North Americans) making this a numbers thing.
Matter of fact, the vast majority of South America that is indigenous today is Mestizo (mixed) (nothin wrong with that to they or i).
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Spiralman: Where is the great Ancient Greece of Africa? Its strange how these Afrocrazed Negroes insist that they created so many things outside their own yard yet in their own yard we see virtually nothing of the Negro. No art, sculpture, architecture, nation nothing. Something is very wrong here.
While I have deep hatred for Afrocenrics claiming Greek and European culture, You are being unfair by saying there was no civilization in the Rest of Africa.
There was the Early Nile Valley(Nubia if you don't see Egypt as African enough) as well as the Tichltt Walatta going back to the B.C era.
Don't stoop the level of Afronuts.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: ''And you're a retard to say there was no art, sculpture nation or anything, and to ancient nation nutt-hug? You build that civilization? Ta fwog outta here'' ====
They had some stuff, but nothing compared to the great heights of Rome, Greece etc.
You know black sub-saharan africans couldn't even write to record their own history...
Not a single ancient black african text exists.
Who recorded the myths and legends of the black tribes across Africa? White Europeans did from around the 19th century...
I mean look how quickly Africa was colonised, europeans had guns and cannons while africans had wooden spears...
Actually if we use you reasoning "Black Africans", the Nubians and Egyptians had Written Records before Europeans, and Written records exist in "Sub Sahran Africa" prior to the 19th Century with the adoption of Arabic.(The Earliest know to date dates back to the Early 1100s)..So the 11-12 Century would be correct.
Also I thinks it not a good Idea for people of Northern and Western European decent to brag about written texts when the only written texts from those regions of any signifigance comes around the exact same time literacy is adopted in West Africa.
You say no culture existed on Par with Rome, and Greece. Well one of the most powerful World Empires prior to the Rise of Islam was Axum, before that Nubia and Egypt held alot of Regional and Cultural sway. The Empire of Ghana is descibed as higly organized with stone, wood and mud structures and a centralized system of government.
Greece and Rome were powerful but were multi-ethnic and borrowed alot from the East, so in a sense Greece was more Eastern in Her sphere of Influence.
As far as being easily conquered goes, you realize the Muslims conquered much of Europe...are Muslim Moors somehow superior because they were able to conquer the Spanish.
What to make of the MesoAmericans, The Aztecs who's Hygine , Educational, and Astronomical knowledge far surpassed the Invading Spanish...are we to say people who bathed once a year and who regularly and habitually threw sewage into their drinking supply and who until recently thought the Universe was Geocentric were better than Mesoamericans?? If you are going to say things like that you are obviously not trained in world history, and should be silent on such matters.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: While I have deep hatred for Afrocenrics claiming Greek and European culture,
It's better to disagree without having deep hatred
Well I don't actually hate them, I just can't stand people who whine and bitch about "whitey" but every chance they get they try to be him.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: While I have deep hatred for Afrocenrics claiming Greek and European culture,
It's better to disagree without having deep hatred
Well I don't actually hate them, I just can't stand people who whine and bitch about "whitey" but every chance they get they try to be him.
Now you hate..now you dont hate now you hide now you seek
You are the most mentally miswired of all the pink albinos I have ever encountered ...
Sick, sick like a mensurating BYTCH!
Good your Owner Lioness is around, to leash you before you bite someone and cause her liabilities... LOL
Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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posted
Why is it black people are always bitching and whining about what white people are stealing from us (e.g. culture, science, civilisation etc)?
YET
It is the whitey who actually bothers to collect and document these things (hence the reason it became their legacy). We (Blacks) write books about how we used to be great, how evil white people are and then top it off by charging every other black person to stand up for what is right! YET...
Alright, name one Black person who writes about the science of AE without bitching about it!!? Even Ra Un Nefer Amen does a bit of bitching in, i admit, his rather impressive Metu Neter books...
Posts: 1819 | From: odesco baba | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: Well I don't actually hate them, I just can't stand people who whine and bitch about "whitey" but every chance they get they try to be him.
It's not as if we don't have the knowledge. It's not as if we don't have publishers. It's not as if we don't have web developers. Why can't we come togther to create something worthwhile. Why are we so focussed on silly ish like stabbing each other in the back or how big our phallus is? You can have the longest largest hardest phallus in the world...but what does it matter when u can't be a man on your own planet?
Posts: 1819 | From: odesco baba | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
^You Albinos got everything in your existence from Blacks. You spend your lives emulating Blacks. But yet you claim that Blacks WANT to be YOU??? Like I always say, you Albinos live in a fantasy.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: While I have deep hatred for Afrocenrics claiming Greek and European culture,
It's better to disagree without having deep hatred
Well I don't actually hate them, ..grrr woof woof woof....
Thank heavens, Lioness your owner is around...
Heel..dog...heel..
Cagot bitch....
Have you found my 1st hand source...
or is this anger and frustration because your true identity has been revealed...
A Cagot, Tin-fiol Tranny...
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Booski Love: If we're so spiritual, why don't we have a Black version of this....? http://www.innertraditions.com/
It's not as if we don't have the knowledge. It's not as if we don't have publishers. It's not as if we don't have web developers. Why can't we come togther to create something worthwhile. Why are we so focussed on silly ish like stabbing each other in the back or how big our phallus is? You can have the longest largest hardest phallus in the world...but what does it matter when u can't be a man on your own planet?
Folks
When you go to this ho's profile, she has this picture of her Gods:
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: ''And you're a retard to say there was no art, sculpture nation or anything, and to ancient nation nutt-hug? You build that civilization? Ta fwog outta here'' ====
They had some stuff, but nothing compared to the great heights of Rome, Greece etc.
You know black sub-saharan africans couldn't even write to record their own history...
Not a single ancient black african text exists.
Who recorded the myths and legends of the black tribes across Africa? White Europeans did from around the 19th century...
I mean look how quickly Africa was colonised, europeans had guns and cannons while africans had wooden spears...
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Posts: 175 | From: Who knows? | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:They had some stuff, but nothing compared to the great heights of Rome, Greece etc. You know black sub-saharan africans couldn't even write to record their own history... Not a single ancient black african text exists. Who recorded the myths and legends of the black tribes across Africa? White Europeans did from around the 19th century... I mean look how quickly Africa was colonised, europeans had guns and cannons while africans had wooden spears.
I take it you are relatively new here Kush,and Axum was comparable, Axum was according to the Persian religious figure Mani listed Axum with Rome, Persia, and China as one of the four great powers of his time. http://www.theancientweb.com/explore/content.aspx?content_id=10 A trading Empire with connections as far as India and China. Btw there are over 300 such sites in ancient Zimbabwe the one above being the largest and most famous. http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pav&action=display&thread=126 Gedi ruins: The ruins are the remains of a town located in Gede, a village near the coastal town of Malindi in Kenya. It is suggested that between the 13th and 14th to 17th centuries, Gedi was a thriving community along coastal Kenya. Although no written record exists of this town, excavations made between 1948 and 1958 have revealed that the inhabitants of Gedi traded with people from all over the world. “The artifacts that were found in the ruins, such as Chinese porcelain and Venetian glass, indicate that Gedi was a wealthy city that traded with Portugal, Italy, China, India and the Arab world” (Mombasa Kenya coast: Gedi ruins, www.articlebase.com). The ruins have a mosque, a palace, and large stone houses. The city’s streets were laid out at right angles and had drainage gutters. It is assumed that the village was abandoned in early 16th century Read more: ]http://egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pav&action=display&thread=126#ixzz1C5PD2MKO
quote:Originally posted by Booski Love: Why is it black people are always bitching and whining about what white people are stealing from us (e.g. culture, science, civilisation etc)?
YET
It is the whitey who actually bothers to collect and document these things (hence the reason it became their legacy). We (Blacks) write books about how we used to be great, how evil white people are and then top it off by charging every other black person to stand up for what is right! YET...
Alright, name one Black person who writes about the science of AE without bitching about it!!? Even Ra Un Nefer Amen does a bit of bitching in, i admit, his rather impressive Metu Neter books...
As discrete cultures and societies: The European Blacks are gone, The North African Blacks are gone, The North Asian Blacks are gone, The American Blacks are gone. All that is left is the Sub-Saharan Blacks. YOU are a Sub-Saharan Black, and your outlook is Sub-Saharan Black. Need I say more?
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Egyptian Deity Greek Deity Location in Herodotus
Ptah- Hephaestus
II.3.1- 112.1
Horus-Apollo II.144.2
Osiris-Dionysus
II.42.2, 144.2
Isis-Demeter (Io)
II.59.2 (II.41.2)
Set/Apophis-Typhon
II.144.2, 156.4
Bubastis (Bast)-Atremis
II.137.5
Neith-Athena
II.28.1, 59.3
Amun-Zeus
II.42
Hathor-Aphrodite
II.42
Khonsu (?)-Herakles
II.42
Min-Pan
II.46.4
Apis-Epaphus
II.153.1
Herodotus also asserted that "the names of nearly all the gods came to Greece from Egypt . . . for the names of all the gods have been known in Egypt from the beginning of time . . . It was the Egyptians too who originated, and taught the Greeks . . . ceremonial meeting, processions and liturgies . . . The Egyptians were also the first to assign each month and each day to a particular deity, and to foretell the date of a man's birth, his character, his fortunes, and the day of his death . . . The Egyptians, too have made more use of omens and prognostics than any other nation. . ." (Herodotus, The Histories, 149-150; 152; 159). http://wysinger.homestead.com/ancientafrica.htmlPosts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Really though (considering cass's & Spiral's last post) this is the wrong place to be post gems like the above
i'd say Africa looses any big leverage they had relative to elsewhere in the world with the fall of the Pharaohs and start of the Current Era (change from B.C.E. to C.E.). The tables turn last millennium with two major things.
1.) blacks begin to dominate slavery -- in terms of the slavee .. if that makes sense, not the slaver. Profit generated for Africans is only short term.
2.) As the human focus shifted more and more towards manufacturing technology industry comes to be the dominant factor and it had always been the further North people lived the less they could rely on their land. This was also true of the more dessert adapted people were.
Even with that said Africa's had a number of expansions into non-African territory even after ancient "Egypt". There was Abyssinia ("Ethiopia") in the East and in the West the Moorish Empires (particularly Almoravid and Almohad Dynasties had origins in Islam converts in the deep South i think). A lot of times foreigners in Africa were completely dominated.
So maybe i'll say that the Atlantic Slave trade was the real, major, and ultimate turning point in terms of Africa vs. Eurasia. The Moors and Arabs had slaves from as far North as England and Norway and as far South as probably Zimbabwe but didn't seem to utilize slavery as well so i won't say the Arabs' slaving of Africans marked the turning point.
It was the Western Atlantic one.
**************************
Even by the times of the white American colonies white people in general including Americans had to watch for Pirates while sailing around the Mediterranean Sea and even as far North as Britain.
posted
Though I have no time to scour all the sources listed in the below chart, one person is conspicuos by his absence. Eurybates is the only one described by Homer as a black yet not a foreigner but Greek and the equal of Ulysses himself.
quote:A favourite herald in his train I knew, His visage solemn, sad of sable hue: Short woolly curls o'erfleeced his bending head, O'er which a promontory shoulder spread; Eurybates; in whose large soul alone Ulysses view'd an image of his own.
Or in a prose and more modern translation
quote: Furthermore, a herald attended him, a little older than he, and I will tell thee of him too, what manner of man he was. He was round-shouldered, dark of skin, and curly-haired, and his name was Eurybates; and Odysseus honored him above his other comrades, because he was like-minded with himself.” So he spoke, and in her heart aroused yet more the desire of weeping, as she recognized the sure tokens that Odysseus told her.
Homer -- Odyssey 19.244-250
Now the pertinent words in the description supporting Eurybates' blackness are μελανόχροος and οὐλοκάρηνος i.e., black-skinned and woolly-haired. Is anyone with origins in your Tin (British) Isles so glowingly spoken of in Homer or anybody from the Tin Isles mentioned at all in the corpus of ancient Greek Lit?
quote:Originally posted by cassiterides: ... i thought i would expose the truth on this matter.
The Negro in Ancient Greece
Two initial points to consider:
1. No one denies that there were Negro populations in ancient Greece, as there is a classical record that documents them.
2. The following article was written by Frank Snowden (d. 2007), an African-American Classicist and one of the foremost authorities on blacks in classical antiquity.
3. There were small populations of blacks in ancient Greece, but they were not considered to be Greek, but foreign.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Why can't we come togther to create something worthwhile. Why are we so focussed on silly ish like stabbing each other in the back or how big our phallus is? You can have the longest largest hardest phallus in the world...but what does it matter when u can't be a man on your own planet?
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