posted
i like to know why somalis and arabs intermarried,was it as protection from the anemy like abyssinia. i mean abyssinia wouldnt welcome arab settling in their neighbourhood would it.
my father told me somalis used to learn arabic so they can communicate with arabs during battle against abyssinia or trade with arabs,and ,most somalis never lost native language regardless arab presence in our lands .
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-------------------- If you don't learn from your mistakes, there's no sense making them. Posts: 15090 | From: http://www.egyptalk.com/forum/ | Registered: Jul 2004
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Wars in Arabia in the 7th and 8th centuries sent a large influx of Arab refugees from Arabia and the Persian Gulf to African coastal cities of Somalia, Kenya, and Tanzania. Out of this intermingling of Arabs and black Africans was born the Swahili - a Bantu-based Arabized culture. By the 10th century, Arabs were living as far south as Sofala. Immigrants from Yemen and Hadramaut came to East Africa in the 13th and 14th century. Ibn Battuta, who visited the Swahili coast in 1331 CE, wrote of Mogadishu, then a Swahili town, that Swahili businessmen each had personal ties with Asian merchants, whom they entertained and accommodated in their own houses.
The victory of the Muslims over the Quraysh in the 7th century had a significant impact on Somalia's merchants and sailors, as their Arab trading partners had then all adopted Islam, and the major trading routes in the Mediterranean and the Red Sea came under the sway of the Muslim Caliphs.
Through commerce, Islam spread amongst the Somali population in the coastal cities of Somalia. Instability in the Arabian peninsula saw several migrations of Arab families to Somalia's coastal cities, who then contributed another significant element to the growing popularity of Islam in the Somali peninsula.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by abdi: i like to know why somalis and arabs intermarried,was it as protection from the anemy like abyssinia. i mean abyssinia wouldnt welcome arab settling in their neighbourhood would it.
my father told me somalis used to learn arabic so they can communicate with arabs during battle against abyssinia or trade with arabs,and ,most somalis never lost native language regardless arab presence in our lands .
Most somalis did not intermarried with arabs.
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^I agree with the above; Somali gene pool, particularly as exemplified by the male counterpart, is largely African-specific. Somali samples generally show very little of clades generally popular in Arab populations, such as say, J1.
quote:Originally posted by Ayisha: maybe they fell in love?
LOL, that would be the most logical conclusion, in light of the above, i.e. core Somali-speaking Somalis actually carry very little Arab (genetic) ancestry.
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Originally posted by the Explorer "Somalis actually carry very little Arab (genetic) ancestry."
how do you know most somalis carry little arab genes, did any one took genetic test.
all i know is the largest two tribes of somalia are arab decent, DAAROOD AND ISAq, arabs and persians settled somalia from 7th century since abyssinia welcomed muslims during crusades.
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how do you know most somalis carry little arab genes, did any one took genetic test.
Precisely! For examples, refer to Cruciani et al. 2004/Cruciani et al. 2007, Sanchez et al. 2005 or Abu-Amero et al. 2009.
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posted
You'll have to do the reading work; that's why I gave you a place to start -- with those references. Put it this way, the bulk of the ancestry is indigenously eastern African!
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"The data suggest that the male Somali population is a branch of the East African population − closely related to the Oromos in Ethiopia and North Kenya − with predominant E3b1 [E1b1b1] cluster lineages that were introduced into the Somali population 4000−5000 years ago, and that the Somali male population has approximately 15% Y chromosomes from Eurasia and approximately 5% from sub-Saharan Africa."
c Sanchez et al., High frequencies of Y chromosome lineages characterized by E3b1, DYS19-11, DYS392-12 in Somali males, Eu J of Hum Genet (2005) 13, 856–866
"Somali, as a representative East African population, seem to have experienced a detectable amount of Caucasoid maternal influence... the proportion m of Caucasoid lineages in the Somali is m = 0.46 [46%]... Our results agree with the hypothesis of a maternal influence of Caucasoid lineages in East Africa, although its contribution seems to be higher than previously reported in mtDNA studies
Comas et al. from (1999), Analysis of mtDNA HVRII in several human populations using an immobilised SSO probe hybridisation assay, Eur J Hum Genet. 1999 May-Jun;7(4):459-68.
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quote:Originally posted by abdi: well we are located very intresting part of africa and must have lots of contact in that period.
very intresting lioness, are u somali or other race,
no just African American of West African descent, wait a moment and Explorer and friends will dispute the studies I referred
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I will not waist time disputing anything here with you, as you were embarrassed by exposure in another thread of not having a clue about the Commas et al. piece you are citing. As for the Sanchez et al. deal, Evil Euro had been crushed on it so many times, that I believe the number outdoes the rate with which cockroaches give birth. My advice to Abdi is to be wary of a crackpot like you, but that's his/her choice.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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abdi take Explorers advice, I'm a crackpot. Explorer says Evil Euro had posted the studies and the boys crushed them. Perhaps he can put up the links to shutting down these studies, the mythical "caucasoid" etc.
Explorer, never mind what I posted, maybe you could help abdi in some why interpret some of the studies you referred to or the ES links about them. Not everybody has a degree in genetics and can understand all of it. After all this is not a genetics forum, although that is part of it.
I don't know if what I put up is correct, but it was a starting point mentioning percentages from mainstream sources. There seems to be credible history supporting intermarriage with Arabs. Nobody seems to want to discuss it.
Also, Explo, some of your writing is confusing in a heavy academic style even though your genetic knowledge is very deep. Don't be elitist, help us dummies to understand.
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Ok lioness, you asked for it. Let me help you.
Tell me, of the lineages you see in the Sanchez et al. work, what do you deem to be a marker of Arabic gene flow, which I take it, you believe is fairly substantial, in contradiction to what I already stated?
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Can you name the uniparental haplogroups to which Commas et al.'s "caucasoid" lineages belong? If not, why?
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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If there was Eurasian gene flow it doesn't have to be Arabic but that would seem odd since there is evidence of some migration along the horn trading routes, some intermarriage no doubt. "Insignificant" maybe - but that's up for interpretation. Yes the issue is beyond me at the moment
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I will question the notion that "Horn Africans" and Ancient Egyptians were one and same, though given the demographics of modern Egyptians and skeletal analysis, the two entities very likely share common ancestral population(s). For instance, HbS was prevalent in Dynastic Egypt, as it is today in modern Egypt. This trait is absent in recent populations in the African Horn. Furthermore, the RFLP marker -- haplotype IV, which seems to be have a parallel distribution pattern with the M2 lineage, has a considerable distribution in Egypt, with a gradient that decreases as one moves from Upper Egypt to the Delta region. M2 is found as far north as the Delta region. M2 is relatively rare in the African Horn, save for perhaps, in the Bantu speaking groups in Somalia.
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness: ^^^^that's not help, that's a test exam
LOL, you say that my response sounds like an exam; well I guess that kind'a places us on the same boat, since your posts struck me as some kind of an underhanded way of contradicting or discrediting what I said; no?
quote:
If there was Eurasian gene flow it doesn't have to be Arabic but that would seem odd since there is evidence of some migration along the horn trading routes, some intermarriage no doubt. "Insignificant" maybe - but that's up for interpretation. Yes the issue is beyond me at the moment
That's precisely the point; nobody is saying there was absolutely no gene flow -- you gratuitously arrive at that on your own. The overriding point was that the Arabic ancestry was modest, by comparison to the indigenous segment of Somali gene pool.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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I forgot about that one. I was in that thread myself for some posts.
Here is the Tishkoff chart that zaharan put up
According to this chart I'm not sure if Somalia is represented directly but Beta Israel crosses over. The Eurasian markers in this East African chart are low generally, However Beta Israel shows approximately 25-30% Eurasian, right hand part of chart.
A 2002 study of Mitochondrial DNA (which is passed through only maternal lineage to both men and women) by Thomas et al. showed that the most common mtDNA type found among the Ethiopian Falasha sample was present only in Somalia. This further supported the view that all Ethiopian Beta-Israel (Falashas) were of local or Ethiopian origin. Some overlap in Beat Israel and Arabs (conversion?) I'm not sure ? could be minimal
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quote:Originally posted by abdi: well we are located very intresting part of africa and must have lots of contact in that period.
very intresting lioness, are u somali or other race,
no just African American of West African descent...
Noooo, you are a pink-white boi fronting a black woman's icon!!! We are onto you Lionese.. Posts: 7419 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2009
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Credit you for breaking down the ideas about that thread.
Let me just say with the recent push of Somalis and Eritreans on the forum there maybe people that think differently.
All I can say is that Egypt was a coming together of East Africans and Saharan Africans. Ancestral populations is a given because we KNOW that E3b1b1 is an EA marker and that ties together many East Africans like Ethiopians, Eritreans etc Yet we also know that the Benin sickle cell that Egyptians have originated in West Africa so that links Egyptians to West Africa.
All in All it seems that we have to continue to keep Scholars on their toes with Blogs and posts that breakdown the studies they post about Egypt and Africa in general. We see with Gonzales that they are not stubborn enough to think of themselves as high and mighty and they will post Truth about Africa when pressed instead of trying to drown out African genes with E3b1b1b1b1b1betc. It seems any gene in Africans gets broken down to the point of trying to coverup that Africans were not static. Since these genes are found in Europe they breakdown these genetics to the point of confusion.
Peace
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People may think differently. The question is how valid is their thoughts; weight and quality of evidence will judge that.
The lineage matters you mentioned, about connections to east Africa and western Africa; this underlies the Saharan origins of ancient Egyptians, and the location of the Egyptian territory. This peculiarity is why there are bio-anthropological demarcations to be made between ancient Egyptians and recent populations in the African Horn.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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According to this chart I'm not sure if Somalia is represented directly but Beta Israel crosses over. The Eurasian markers in this East African chart are low generally, However Beta Israel shows approximately 25-30% Eurasian, right hand part of chart.
Identify the marker names implicated in this "25-30%" Eurasian component.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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^While this is being pondered, here's some break down on Sanchez et al.'s work...
The marker that can positively be correlated with Arabic gene flow, as far as I can see, is primarily J1. This marker has a disproportionately higher prevalence in Arabic-speaking populations of the Arabian plate than any other. *If*, it is assume that this marker is a reflection of Arabic gene flow, then it only constituted 2.5% of the Somali gene pool analyzed. Other markers were G, H, J2, T2 and R1a. Of these latter types, G may *tentatively* represent gene flow from the "Near East", even though it has low incidences there too; however, there is relatively more diversity in that region than in the Somali samples. G seems to have relatively more diversity in the Turkish region than any other place, but the frequencies are fairly modest even here. G however, also has a strong footprint in northern African areas of Egypt and Sudan, and this is not just any G, it is the upstream G* chromosomes that is being referred to here. G* has greater distribution in northern Africa than anywhere. So, if, it were to be treated as an exogenetic marker, it will have to be done so very "tentatively".
I wouldn't characterize T (formerly K2) as a foreign marker, because it is actually more prevalent in eastern Africa than anywhere else. This marker comprised 10.4% of the Somali gene pool, the lion's share of the supposed markers camped into Sanchez et al.'s "Eurasian" banner.
J2, which is mostly found in the northern parts of the Arabian plate, particularly in the Levant, is only represented by .5%.
H is fairly rare in the "Near East", with fairly low but wider distribution in the Pakistani region. In fact, H1 was only identified in the Somali population in the entire samples Sanchez et al. used. It's safe to say, that if H1 were treated as a foreign marker, then Arabic transmission would not have been its source!
R1a; made up of only 1% of Somali gene pool. If this marker was transmitted via Arabic contact, then the persons who did so, must have had ancestry from the Indian sub-continent, where it is most prevalent. On the other hand, it could have come by way of Eastern Europe. In other words, it is not a modal Arabic marker.
So, if T is removed from the bunch given the banner "Eurasian", then the Eurasian component would just boil down to about 5%!
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by abdi: there is no such thing full gene people.
africa had contact and lots civilisation, that most africans carry different genes.
children of adam and eve.
african should unite always.
most people on this forum are coming from the perspective that there has been very little intermarriage between Somalians/coastal Ethiopians and non-black Arabs.
The genetics is complicated. There are Arabs who are considered "black" and there are Arabs who are considered not black or white. But the Arabs who are considered not black or white have a certain amount of African genetic ancestry.
How much intermarriage do you think was going on?
Some people feel that that concept takes away from black achievement, waters it down with outside influence and that it is a threat to the what they see as a black Egypt being nearby. There's a lot at stake on a philosophical type of level becasue Egypt is considered very high on the impressive ancient civilizations lists.
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According to this chart I'm not sure if Somalia is represented directly but Beta Israel crosses over. The Eurasian markers in this East African chart are low generally, However Beta Israel shows approximately 25-30% Eurasian, right hand part of chart.
Identify the marker names implicated in this "25-30%" Eurasian component.
In the East African section, right hand side in the Ethiopian section, furtherest right segment marked underneath "Beta Israel" That marker is 25-30% blue If that is separate form Beta Israel of Somalia. Beta Israel in Somalia would be higher percentage.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote: metinoot Member # 17031 posted 25 February, 2011 07:30 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- abdi why you upset about all the Somali women forced to marry Italians during colonization?
Didn't your father tell you about that?
Explains why women of Mogadishu are slightly lighter than the rest of the country
Do you mean the Mogadishu woman the reer xamar who are mix of Arabs,Indians and persian or the Bajun(light skinned coastal people with Bantu features)
or
The Mogadishu woman who are from the sarounding Somali tribes who are the darkest somalis in Somalia?
The only Italian mixed with somalis are not many and recent years maybe last 40 years and goes both ways for somali men and Somali woman all I know not more than hundereds.
Abdi
uma egid mana tihid maryooley xagee ka timid ama ku nooshahay nin yahow? iigu jawaab soomaali si degdeg ah?
We will find out who ABDI is?
No living somali will ask such a question!
Somali asking protection the Arabs against Habasha?
I am at work later....
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most people on this forum are coming from the perspective that there has been very little intermarriage between Somalians/coastal Ethiopians and non-black Arabs.
Logical fallacy. There is no uniform or unison perspective here. Lumping Somalis with Ethiopians or using them interchangeably, shows just how much you know what you are talking about.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by The Explorer:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
According to this chart I'm not sure if Somalia is represented directly but Beta Israel crosses over. The Eurasian markers in this East African chart are low generally, However Beta Israel shows approximately 25-30% Eurasian, right hand part of chart.
Identify the marker names implicated in this "25-30%" Eurasian component.
In the East African section, right hand side in the Ethiopian section, furtherest right segment marked underneath "Beta Israel" That marker is 25-30% blue If that is separate form Beta Israel of Somalia. Beta Israel in Somalia would be higher percentage.
Non-sequitur. You were asked to name the haplogroups that you called "25-30% Eurasian"!
And for the life of me, I don't know why you are using the Beta Israel (from Ethiopia) as a substitute or proxy for the Somali.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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And for the life of me, I don't know why you are using the Beta Israel (from Ethiopia) as a substitute or proxy for the Somali. [/QB]
Clan by clan genetic haplogroup studies seem to be unrelaible. Having studied the genealogical evidence though, Hawiye, Digil, Mirifle. most Dir and minority clans are of African patrimonial descent. There more minority clans than they report. As they claim their patron clan's descent to outsiders, many of them have likely forgotten or suppressed the fact that they were once a minority group like Madhibaan or Lo'jir or. Hawiye, Many Dir, Digil and Mirifle clans have also "become" Darood or Isaaq via marriage can trace their lineage to Darood a female ancestor at one point or another, but their patrilinear descent remains African, and vice versa (a famous one is the Warsangeli Abgaal, they are Darood but claim Abgaal Hawiye from a female ancestor).
I would say that no more than 20% of Somalis are direct male-line descendants of Abu Talib. It's not true that they found no J haplogroup, I've seen studies of J-type haplogroups found amongst a lot of Somali men, especially in the North.
Arab or not, J or not, Somalis seems to be about 15% Eurasian on average but it varies on region. (Yemenis can get grouped differently, some studies)
It seems like a low percentage and the whole area is highly divers, North and South etc. Don't get mad at me, many claim Darood, they say that originates from a Yemeni who fled from Yemen and settled in Somalia marrying a native woman. That Yemeni flow could have become quite diluted 10 centuries later. A myth altogether? Possible There was also plenty of red dea trade after that. prior also? yes and 7th and 8th centuries refuges as I mentioned at the top. you're telling me it never happened-or that people did not intermarry?
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posted
IAMNOAMAD hahahahahahaha war hadii fikrad kaa duwan layiraahdo,macaroon hahahaha dlakeenii waxuu u burburay waa people like u iamnomad. learn not to take personal its forum!
somali women never been forced to marry italian in mogadishu,most of the light skinned people reer hamar tribe,part arab etc
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Your long ass rambling doesn't even address the post you were quoting.
You gratuitously claim that "it's not true that they found no hg J"; no doubt arguing with yourself, as those words came out of you alone. You go onto say that hg J is "amongst a lot of Somali men, especially in the north". Question is, where did you learn of this, 'cause it hasn't crossed my attention ; did you test these Somali men?
There is no cause for me to get mad at the prospect of people having mythic legends; it's part of human nature. But understand them as just that, legends. Does that make you mad? Also, why does it irk you whenever it is objectively pointed out that Somali gene pool, or that of any other African group for that matter, is overwhelmingly more autochthonous than you care to believe? And you are strongly urged to stop playing that game with me, of trying to place words into my mouth -- like the nonsense about intermarriages never happening between Somalis and outsiders. It'll lead you to a dead-end.
Ps: Where is your answer to the request for the names of markers you call "Eurasian component", which you elected to ignore? It takes a lot for my memory to fade.
BTW, I already educated you on the specifics of the "15 %" of the so-called "Eurasian" element invoked in Sanchez et al.'s work, and you still managed to get that wrong. Plus, common sense should tell you that this percentage only concerns the sample size used in the study, not a reference to the entire Somali population. Guess you are running short on common sense.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
why do I have to go looking into that component as a test when we are dealing with a Tishkoff chart which plainly illustrates a significant Eurasian/Asiatic mark in Beta Israel Ethiopians in blue on the chart. zaharan has my back on this one. I don't think you disagree on this you are just trying to schoolteacher the lioness.
I'm mad about the legends
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Well, I have my doubts, because as far as I know, Tishkoff et al. did not use the classical uniparental markers, which are less subjective to homoplasy. But I shouldn't be worried about that for long, because good ol' lioness is going to educate me on the names of these markers, and what makes her sure that they are Eurasian, as per her understanding, won't you?
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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I can't waste my time on telling you what you already know.
Let's look at the history of Somalia for a moment. Supposedly wars in Arabia in the 7th and 8th centuries sent a large influx of Arab refugees from Arabia and the Persian Gulf to African coastal cities of Somalia, Kenya, and Tanzania.
Which would you say
1) there were no refugees at that time, it's a myth 2) there were some but not a large amount 3) there was a large influx of refugees but they didn't intermarry much.
this isn't a lioness thread it's an abdi thread. he asked why somalis and arabs intermarried?
you said
"core Somali-speaking Somalis actually carry very little Arab (genetic) ancestry."
That's like saying that the Somalis who are not mixed with Arabs have very little mixture with Arabs.
4) are u mad?
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
These are dimwitted questions that have no bearing on what you cited me on.
"core Somali-speaking Somalis actually carry very little Arab (genetic) ancestry."
^How did this simple text managed to puzzle you; What does it say?
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
I don't already know what you supposedly know about this below; care to fill me in?
Originally posted by The Explorer:
Well, I have my doubts, because as far as I know, Tishkoff et al. did not use the classical uniparental markers, which are less subjective to homoplasy. But I shouldn't be worried about that for long, because good ol' lioness is going to educate me on the names of these markers, and what makes her sure that they are Eurasian, as per her understanding, won't you?
What's that old saying? Oh, this: You can run but you can't hide. Think about that.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: These are dimwitted questions that have no bearing on what you cited me on.
"core Somali-speaking Somalis actually carry very little Arab (genetic) ancestry."
^How did this simple text managed to puzzle you; What does it say?
It's a good question about how does the history coincides with what you are saying is a lack of genetic evidence.
You qualified "Somalis" as "core Somali-speaking Somalis"
None of these studies are going to use this term "core Somalis" as opposed to "non-core Somalis" or whatever you would call Somalis that are not "core Somalis"
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Core Somalis would be the "Somali-speaking" folks, you know, the ones whose tongue is Cushitic. That is not something you need to bang your head against the wall about. It's not that hard to grasp.
I base my statement on empirical genetic data. What is the excuse for your tales?
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Core Somalis would be the "Somali-speaking" folks, you know, the ones whose tongue is Cushitic. That is not something you need to bang your head against the wall about. It's not that hard to grasp.
I base my statement on empirical genetic data. What is the excuse for your tales?
Africa from the seventh to the eleventh century By Ivan Hrbek p 46-49
Now what if we had one of them marry a local Somali and have a child?
As long you say the child is no longer a "core Somalian" then you can just ignore this history
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
I recognize that there are Arabian peninsula communities in the African Horn. Fact though, Somalis appear to be a conservative bunch; and their gene pools reflect this.
You say that Arabs fled there. Well, if they did, there wasn't that much of a gene flow going on between them. Does this mean that there ABSOLUTELY were no intermarriages between Somalis and these immigrants? NO; that is just you being naive, and just being argumentative.
Ps: You are using way too much time in trying to comprehend what "core Somali" constitutes. I thought it was a no-brainer, but I apparently miscalculated, by overestimating intelligence of potential readers. By "core Somali-speaking Somali" population, this is what I mean: The fundamental or basic substratum of Somali population whose natural tongue is the Cushitic phylum called "Somali" -- meaning these were not naturalized or converted immigrants speaking Somali, but Somali folk whose primary tongue has always been Somali. Comprehend?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by abdi: i like to know why somalis and arabs intermarried,was it as protection from the anemy like abyssinia. i mean abyssinia wouldnt welcome arab settling in their neighbourhood would it.
my father told me somalis used to learn arabic so they can communicate with arabs during battle against abyssinia or trade with arabs,and ,most somalis never lost native language regardless arab presence in our lands .
This a very interesting statement, certainly when one thinks of where Prophet Muhammad went during his exile of the Arabian Peninsula. So do you know where he went looking for refuge?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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Saudi Arabian Y-Chromosome diversity and its relationship with nearby regions
"Around 14% of the Saudi Arabia Y-chromosome pool is typical of African biogeographic ancestry"
"Global male inputs from Sub-Saharan Africa and Asia across Iran, not the Levant, into the Arabian Peninsula have been estimated in this study, as 13.4% and 16.6% from both source areas respectively. Recent mtDNA studies on the same Arabian Peninsula countries [7-9,12] have confirmed a notable female-driven sub-Saharan African input with a mean value around 15% for all the Peninsula, although frequencies as high as 60% have been detected in Hadramawt populations of Yemen"
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