quote:And what period does this bust come from? Any inscriptions or actual evidence included to verify would be helpful.
It comes from Ancient Egypt. That's all you need to know. The storm front pet theory that it's a 25th dynasty piece is mere nonsense.
Posts: 1038 | From: Franklin Park, NJ | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Apocalypse: Simple Girl wrote:
quote:And what period does this bust come from? Any inscriptions or actual evidence included to verify would be helpful.
It comes from Ancient Egypt. That's all you need to know. The storm front pet theory that it's a 25th dynasty piece is mere nonsense.
Is that the best you can do? Then we can assume that it could be from any dynasty for that matter. lol
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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Very true. We can. However I hold with Petrie that this is indeed a bust of Menes.
Posts: 1038 | From: Franklin Park, NJ | Registered: Aug 2005
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there's all sorts of brown skinned people around I admit it, some lighter also [/QUOTE]
Using your"Proximity" logic Southern Arabia is Closer to Sudan and Ethiopia where the Darkest blackest people on Earth live yet I await to see you post these black Arabs(They Exist even I admit that)...Is Arabia suddenly exempt from your proximity theory?? Or is it you only apply this theory to Egypt....??
Some Sudanese people who are close in proximity to Arabia...
Using your proximity logic Arabia should be full of blacks like that right(You're not squirming/Spinning out of this).
quote:Originally posted by A Simple Girl: Post real black African people in their true form Djehuti, and not an obviously mixed form. lol
LOL so now there are "Real Black africans"..WOW....
Are there Real White Europeans?? I guess the southern European are Fake esp. given the African DNA of the Greeks..LOL. Yet I don't see you talking about Greece's African relationship..LOL
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LOL, You've been busted. Why don't you apply your Proximity theory to Arabia??
Some Yemeni and Southern Arabs
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
^^^^black Arab
Saudi Arabia
^^^^ That man is a Gulf Arab Looks like a Mulatto, probably has Saqalibba and Persian blood.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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there's all sorts of brown skinned people around I admit it, some lighter also
Using your"Proximity" logic Southern Arabia is Closer to Sudan and Ethiopia where the Darkest blackest people on Earth live yet I await to see you post these black Arabs(They Exist even I admit that)...Is Arabia suddenly exempt from your proximity theory?? Or is it you only apply this theory to Egypt....??
[/QUOTE]
Most Arabia is separated from Africa by the Red Sea so it is likely that migrations came much later compared to Sudan.
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Sorry Kid, you are not Squirming/Spinning out of this.
You claim that Saudi Arabia is surrounded by sea, yet it is known that Sea Faring is far more tactful than traveling by land. Therefore your rant about "Jordan" is null as it is unsafe and longer to get to Egypt from Jordan than it would be for a Sea Faring Sudanese or ethiopian to get to Arabia.
You are using a Double Standard, You apply rules to Arabia but Egypt is fair game.
Sorry but you will have to take this as a loss.
Sorry.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness: [qb] [
there's all sorts of brown skinned people around I admit it, some lighter also
Using your"Proximity" logic Southern Arabia is Closer to Sudan and Ethiopia where the Darkest blackest people on Earth live yet I await to see you post these black Arabs(They Exist even I admit that)...Is Arabia suddenly exempt from your proximity theory?? Or is it you only apply this theory to Egypt....??
Most Arabia is separated from Africa by the Red Sea so it is likely that migrations came much later compared to Sudan. [/QUOTE]
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: LOL, You've been busted. Why don't you apply your Proximity theory to Arabia??
Some Yemeni and Southern Arabs
Arabia is off topic. I haven't done as much research about Arabia. consult my homey awlaadberry. The above photo is fine with me no problem, dark brown skinned Arabs
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
^^^^black Arab
Saudi Arabia
quote:Originally posted by Just call me Jari: That man is a Gulf Arab Looks like a Mulatto, probably has Saqalibba and Persian blood.
the guy is dark enough to fit yall's "black" definition
posted
Arabia is off topic. I haven't done as much research about Arabia. consult my homey awlaadberry. The above photo is fine with me no problem, dark brown skinned Arabs
LOL so Now Arabia is "Off Topic"...LOL
Come on dude just admit it you only apply this Proximity theory to Egypt, every other Civilization is "Off Limits" too huh...
I don't know about Alwaadberry, According to Mazie he is a Arabized Sudanese Arab. He seems to have an Agenda(To Arabize and then Islamize Africans and AA), I don't even know if he considers the Light Skinned/White Arabs are authentic.
However I do agree with him that there were Black arabs esp. in the South.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
what are you on some features thing now?
here's a lighter skinned brother for you:
[/qb]
No Im not on features.
You are just being faceteous. You know damn well that Gulf Arab is a Mulatto/Asiatic type and would not identify nor be classified as black.
Stop with the Spin tactics.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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This bust doesn't look to be any later than Djoser time frame, since it has wear and tear on the stone surface that is perhaps best approximated by that of the Djoser sculpture, which is rare to see on those of later Dynasties--even those which have suffered abuse and have pieces missing. It must be from the earliest Dynasties, and possibly even older. Take a look at the following Djoser piece...
Even though it has bits missing, the stone surface itself is fairly rough [though not as bad as the supposed "Narmer" bust], likely due to the exposure to elements over time.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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same sculpture- ____^^^^better quality photo. Petrie Museum .
.
^This is just terrible. Any untrianed eye can tell that these two busts are completely different. The one on the right was actually found within a 1rst dynasty context/royal tomb (dated to 3100 BC), leading Petrie to rather speculate that this was possibly the bust of the purported unifier of Egypt, Menes/Narmer. The one on the left is a much later, but confirmed representative bust of the same first dynasty ruler (Menes), but the busts are not identical, they are two different busts (both clearly representing an African male)!
Why are you so sloppy in your copy and paste research? You never research facts, your only goal is to minimize what you see as ethnic/ethnocentric chauvinism but you're doing it the wrong way and are even more sloppy than the rash/radical afrocentrists. You need to work on that.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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^This is just terrible. Any untrianed eye can tell that these two busts are completely different. The one on the right was actually found within a 1rst dynasty context/royal tomb (dated to 3100 BC), leading Petrie to rather speculate that this was possibly the bust of the purported unifier of Egypt, Menes/Narmer. The one on the left is a much later, but confirmed representative bust of the same first dynasty ruler (Menes), but the busts are not identical, they are two different busts (both clearly representing an African male)!
Why are you so sloppy in your copy and paste research? You never research facts, your only goal is to minimize what you see as ethnic/ethnocentric chauvinism but you're doing it the wrong way and are even more sloppy than the rash/radical afrocentrists. You need to work on that.
Sundjata you are wrong on this. It's the same head at slightly different angles. The one at left I posted was photographed in fully lit conditions the one at right in dark gallery conditions with a spotlight thus creating heavier shadows. Do your research before you step to the lioness:
posted
T. Wilkinson who showed predynastic Nagadan pottery sherd displaying only the Red Crown (Deshret), reportedly dates that UC 15989 bust to the 2nd Dynasty. This perhaps goes to show that there is a general understanding that the bust dates back to the Old Kingdom.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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^Explorer,would you agree that this is the same sculpture? If I'm wrong, so be it, I'd always assumed one came later than the other based on conversations here and on the Nile valley, mainly concerning the latter bust (the one lioness says is the lesser quality photo). There's obviously a resemblance anyhow.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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It is meant to be the same bust. It is hard to adjudge this from the photos, because of the different lightings and backgrounds. But the image with the black background admittedly displays a bust that is much rougher on the stone surface than the supposed "better quality" [according to lioness] photo of the bust. Even this one below...
Displays rougher stone surfaces than lioness' "better quality" photo.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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^Indeed, by "better quality" I guess she's assuming one looks 'less African'.
But lioness, I will give you that the bust indeed seems likely to be the same. Unless Petrie found two different busts that he thought to be Narmer (which I don't think was the case) you've earned one point, but in the same breath you lose a point for what you are trying to imply by emphasizing a contrast.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
I think the question that should be asked, is why Petrie was of the mindset that it must have belonged to Narmer, without an identifier on the bust. Could it be because it was found amongst other finds that were positively traced back to Narmer's name?
Eurocentrists who complain against "Afrocentrists" about the Narmer-connection with the bust, are misplacing their protest, since it was none other than a European researcher who made that very connection.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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And wasn't it also the same European researcher that made the claim that the bodies occupying the Naqada II graves actually appeared to have came from elsewhere? In fact I believe he was rather surprised to find that they did not seem to be negroid as he had expected.
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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What are your relying on about what "that researcher" supposedly expected? For the record, "that researcher" is an archeologist, not a bio-anthropologist. His assessment that the bust must be tied to Narmer comes from his profession as an "archeologist", i.e. digging up the finds and examining them...not analyzing DNA or skeleton proportions.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: What are your relying on about what "that researcher" supposedly expected? For the record, "that researcher" is an archeologist, not a bio-anthropologist. His assessment that the bust must be tied to Narmer comes from his profession as an "archeologist", i.e. digging up the finds and examining them...not analyzing DNA or skeleton proportions.
Uh... I don't know maybe the hair was a dead giveaway as well as burial items that had definite cultural links to other areas.
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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Better yet, as hinted above, it could be that the bust was found in the midst of items positively identified with Narmer [via hieroglyphs and serekhs], or at least in proximity to them.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Originally posted by The Explorer: Better yet, as hinted above, it could be that the bust was found in the midst of items positively identified with Narmer [via hieroglyphs and serekhs], or at least in proximity to them.
Maybe you should provide us with a link or some evidence?
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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Never mind the above; I see that you've gone off tangent on the topic of the bust...
quote:Originally posted by A Simple Girl:
Uh...I don't know
Naturally. You only make claims out of emotional impulse. There is no point in equating the identification of the bust with Narmer and subsequent radical Eurocentric complaints to "Afrocentrists" about it, i.e. given that this is an assessment of an archeologist and one of European descent at that, with some assumed astonishment of the said archeologist at some supposed deviation of the biology of ancient specimens from the expected conception...and then expecting or inciting imagined "Afrocentrists" to react to it in a like manner that the Eurocentrists reacted to the bust.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Pretty interesting post. For anyone who is confused...the original people of ancient Egypt or Kemet were the Black Africans. Not mixed or anything like that, and there are many many many artifacts, books and websites that will give historical proofs of that. You just have to be open to find it which some of you may not want to find. Yes in later dynasties other peoples, Arabs and Hyskos(White people) etc, conquered the original people, this happens all throughout history so it should not be a surprise that it happened in Egypt too. So yes you will also find mummies who are of Euro descent there! It's only common sense. But one can't conclude that because Euro mummies were found that ancient Egypt was European, or Arab...in all seriousness...put pride and prejudices aside and learn the truth. Never be afraid of the truth. (And being a Black African doesn't mean a person had to have afro capable hair)
Posts: 1 | Registered: Mar 2011
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^ I think he means the wavy hair or many mummies. We know that wavy hair is not unusual for black Africans and that the actual texture and thickness of the hair is different from actual Europeans.
quote:Originally posted by A Simple-minded Girl: Uh... I don't know maybe the hair was a dead giveaway..
The hair issue was just addressed above.
The Naqada hair by the way is no different in texture from earlier Badarian hair and here is what one study states.
In the early 1970s, the Czech anthropologist Eugen Strouhal examined pre-dynastic Egyptian skulls at Cambridge University. He sent some samples of the hair to the Institute of Anthropology at Charles University, Prague, to be analyzed. The hair samples were described as varying in texture from "wavy" to "curly" and in colour from "light brown" to "black". Strouhal summarized the results of the analysis:
"The outline of the cross-sections of the hairs was flattened, with indices ranging from 35 to 65. These peculiarities also show the Negroid inference among the Badarians"
quote:as well as burial items that had definite cultural links to other areas.
Yes, other areas of Saharan and Sudanese Africa NOT Asia. We've been over this before.
quote: Post real black African people in their true form Djehuti, and not an obviously mixed form. lol
And I thought it was explained to you countless times that black Africans vary in form. Not all "pure" Africans have to look like the people in the above picture dummy just like not all pure Europeans have to look like these people below...
Dummy. Africans are actually way more phenotypically diverse because they possess the most genetic diversity.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by the lyingass: ^^^arbitrary picture spamming.
I could go looking for darker Palestinians, Jordanians and Arabs who have noses like this:
Yes. And there are many Africans with noses like that also. So what is your point. Jari already busted you with your stupid geographic proximity nonsense. Arabia, Jordan and the Levant are right next door to Africa so why can't such people resemble their African neighbors especially since archaeology and genetics confirms their African ancestry??
quote:Originally posted by Mau ze Dumb: ^
Read my thread about the hidden truth about East Africans.
Chairman Mau
LOL Why bother reading anything from you since it is nonsense that has been debunked countless times. We already know the truth about East Africans that they are closely related to other Africans which tropical adapted features including black skin. We also know that whatever relation East Africans have with Eurasians is because Eurasians descend from them. There you go.
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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It is clearly a headdress or crown covering her head. Look beneath the headdress, it is not an afro growing out of her scalp.
LMAO What Tiye wears in the picture is not a "crown" or "headress" as no such kind existed in ancient Egypt. What she is wearing is a WIG. The question is why would Tiye or any Egyptian royal wear such type of wig that resembles an Afro? It is simple logic to anyone the reason is because she like other Egyptians are Africans. The idiot fixates on Tiye's wig but not her obvious BLACK face. LOLPosts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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^ Yet simpletons would have us believe there were Egyptians who were ravishing red-heads and nordic blondes! LOL What idiots!
Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Yet simpletons would have us believe there were Egyptians who were ravishing red-heads and nordic blondes! LOL What idiots!
They didn't have to be ravishing redheads or nordic blondes to be a people from elsewhere. Your evidence for a in-situ developement is rather skimpy.
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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My evidence for in-situ development is quite ample as it comes from ALL Egyptology and scholarly sources. I don't know if you've bothered to do any research using sources since the 1960s but Petrie's foreign Dynastic Race Theory has been debunked. EVERYTHING about pharaonic and dynastic culture screams indigenous African.
Here is just ONE of COUNTLESS sources...
"The evidence also points to linkages to other northeast African peoples, not coincidentally approximating the modern range of languages closely related to Egyptian in the Afro-Asiatic group (formerly called Hamito-Semetic). These linguistic similarities place ancient Egyptian in a close relationship with languages spoken today as far west as Chad, and as far south as Somalia. Archaeological evidence also strongly supports an African origin. A widespread northeastern African cultural assemblage, including distinctive multiple barbed harpoons and pottery decorated with dotted wavy line patterns, appears during the early Neolithic (also known as the Aqualithic, a reference to the mild climate of the Sahara at this time).
Saharan and Sudanese rock art from this time resembles early Egyptian iconography. Strong connections between Nubian (Sudanese) and Egyptian material culture continue in later Neolithic Badarian culture of Upper Egypt. Similarities include black-topped wares, vessels with characteristic ripple-burnished surfaces, a special tulip-shaped vessel with incised and white-filled decoration, palettes, and harpoons...
Other ancient Egyptian practices show strong similarities to modern African cultures including divine kingship, the use of headrests, body art, circumcision, and male coming-of-age rituals, all suggesting an African substratum or foundation for Egyptian civilization."
Donald Redford (2001) The Oxford encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt, Volume 3. Oxford University Press. p.
I could post more, but you'd only be further humiliated. So where is your source on foreign development of pharaonic culture? How come ALL pharaonic customs and materials have their analogs in Africa only? Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Where's the comeback? Modern African divine kingship influenced ancient Egypt? lol
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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^ Where did it say the institution of divine kingship itself in Africa is "modern"?!! Also was divine-kingship the ONLY thing they mentioned as an African trait?! Your reading comprehension is atrocious but I expect nothing less from someone like YOU! LMAO I swear, the racism of you Euronuts has literally stumped your intellects to the point of mental retardation! Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Djehuti: ^ Where did it say the institution of divine kingship itself in Africa is "modern"?!! Also was divine-kingship the ONLY thing they mentioned as an African trait?! Your reading comprehension is atrocious but I expect nothing less from someone like YOU! LMAO I swear, the racism of you Euronuts has literally stumped your intellects to the point of mental retardation!
Read the last paragraph. Can you comprehend that it only pertains to more recent Africans?lol...Divine kingship among modern day Africans influencing ancient Egypt?lol
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
And where is your evidence that the Egyptian language was a product of black Africans to the south? Without any written evidence by these groups predating ancient Egyptian,you don't have a leg to stand on.lol....Like I said before, your evidence is rather skimpy. lol
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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Since the afroasiatic languages pertain mainly to North Africa and areas in the middle East, the majority of speakers are not even black.lol
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by A Simple Mind Wasted: Read the last paragraph. Can you comprehend that it only pertains to more recent Africans?lol...Divine kingship among modern day Africans influencing ancient Egypt?lol
ROTFLMAO
You poor girl. I tutor children part time, and that includes reading and writing. Let us go over the last paragraph shall we?
Other ancient Egyptian practices show strong similarities to modern African cultures including divine kingship, the use of headrests, body art, circumcision, and male coming-of-age rituals, all suggesting an African substratum or foundation for Egyptian civilization.
Now please explain how these customs and practices are modern when they existed in ancient Egypt??
Has it not occurred to you that Redford's point is that these are ancient perhaps prehistoric AFRICAN practices?? Or are you suggesting that the Egyptians came up with all these features on their own and diffused them to the rest of Africa, even though Redford implies the former?!
quote: Multi-barbed harpoons? Multi-barbed harpoons have been found in Europe that are at least 12,000 years old.lol.....
Have you not heard of context?!! Why would Redford and other archaeologists compare the harpoons with African types and not the European or Asian types if there no context to them, stupid-head?! LMAO The same goes for other features like body art and coming of age rituals which was practiced around the world! LOL What about the headrests? Can you find such headrests in Mesopotamia or Europe?? I think not!
As for the African, specifically Nile Valley harpoons, you can see them in Truthcentric's video here.
quote: Since the afroasiatic languages pertain mainly to North Africa and areas in the middle East, the majority of speakers are not even black. lol
WRONG as usual!
1. Blacks are indigenous to ALL of African including North Africa stupid, which is why Egyptians as indigenous North Africans were black.
2. Afroasiatic languages originated IN Africa which is why the most diversity exist in Africa i.e. the ONLY branch of Afroasiatic spoken outside of Africa is Semitic (though not exclusively since it spoken in Ethiopia also) all other branches are spoken in Africa. Egyptic languages by BLACK Egyptians, Berber by BLACK Berbers (the white Berbers you love are actually the minority), and then Cushitic, Omotic, and Chadic branches spoken throughout Sub-Sahara!!
Thus your knowledge on Afroasiatic languages like any aspect of African culture is severely lacking as is your common sense and reading comprehension! LMAOPosts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by A Simple Girl: Multi-barbed harpoons? Multi-barbed harpoons have been found in Europe that are at least 12,000 years old.lol.....
That doesn't look exactly like the Nile Valley harpoons. Look at those and notice that the barbs are all on one side of the point, not two like that European harpoon.
Posts: 7069 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Please show us how modern African practices such as divine kingship,headrests,body art,circumcision etc. influenced ancient Egypt. You got it back asswards.lol
Posts: 676 | From: the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2010
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^ The only one assbackwards right now is YOU! Or rather more like you have your head so far up your ass, you have no direction at all! LOL
Redford's statement is quite clear. He mentioned NOTHING about Egyptians diffusing their culture to the rest of Africa but that their culture is a derivative of the greater African culture by and large!
Let's go over Redford's paragraph again for the humor of it.
Other ancient Egyptian practices show strong similarities to modern African cultures including divine kingship, the use of headrests, body art, circumcision, and male coming-of-age rituals, all suggesting an African substratum or foundation for Egyptian civilization.
Note he said an African substratum or foundation for Egyptians civilization NOT the other way around-- an Egyptian substratum or foundation for African cultures! LMAOH
quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: That doesn't look exactly like the Nile Valley harpoons. Look at those and notice that the barbs are all on one side of the point, not two like that European harpoon.
Of course! As I just explained, the dumb girl apparently doesn't know about context or else why would they bother mentioning such features if they are found in many other cultures wide spread in the globe?! LOL Her stupidity hilarious. Posts: 26238 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
same sculpture- 
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
And I thought it was explained to you countless times that black Africans vary in form. Not all "pure" Africans have to look like the people in the above picture dummy just like not all pure Europeans have to look like these people below...
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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