Does anyone know what he means by "Central Africans"? When I hear that phrase, I think of people from the Congo Basin and adjacent areas. If that's what Keita meant, it would be hilariously ironic given all the insistence that the ancient Egyptians weren't "Congoids".
Posts: 7169 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
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^To the contrary, Keita is cited by almost every bio-anthropologist in regards to Egypt. I dare you to name one author who has contradicted Keita and is supported by others.
Brace does note that there is a tie between them:
quote:The Niger-Congo speakers, Congo, Dahomey and Haya, cluster closely with each other and a bit less closely with the Nubian sample, both the recent and the Bronze Age Nubians, and more remotely with the Naqada Bronze Age sample of Egypt, the modern Somalis, and the Arabic-speaking Fellaheen (farmers) of Israel. When those samples are separated and run in a single analysis as in Fig. 1, there clearly is a tie between them that is diluted the farther one gets from sub-Saharan Africa" (Brace, 2005
Thought that was interesting...
Posts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Chairman Mau: FakeCentric, when are you going to learn to read between the lines?
Keita has already been debunked by the mainstream as being biased in all his presentations.
Sadly, people like you continue to believe that the Earth is Flat!
^^^^ Can you please provide proof of anyone "Debunking" Keita..LOL. Other than a few disgruntled White Nationalists who write him off as Afrocentric..Keita would Run Circles around you and all the people you post from Youtube..LOL
What a Clown...
Keita is the known authority on Genetics and African Populations esp. Egypt, even Mathilda, Salsassin et. al recognize his authority..,
We know now that you are all talk, no serious person interested in Egypt's population origins would claim Keita has been "Debunked by the Mainstream"(Typical Apeal to Popularity Fallacy) when the Mainstream is Keita.
Filthy Arab Trash show Respect when it is due.
Scum.
Posts: 8812 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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^ Of course! LOL I take it Dumbhead Mau will now claim Brace is also a debunked Afrocentric!
Getting back to the topic, this reminds me Osirion's query about the Eburran culture of Central-East Africa showing strong similarities with later Capsian culture of North Africa.
Posts: 26412 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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I know this isn't the first time someone here has complained about the trolls, but I've grown tired of arguing with imbeciles like Mau. It may be amusing at first, but eventually it gets repetitive. It makes you think of that quote claiming that human stupidity is more infinite than the Universe. These people are frankly incapable of learning. I'm amazed that they've even grasped the English language.
Does anyone know what he means by "Central Africans"? When I hear that phrase, I think of people from the Congo Basin and adjacent areas. If that's what Keita meant, it would be hilariously ironic given all the insistence that the ancient Egyptians weren't "Congoids".
Good question, since 'western' researchers seem to variably apply "central Africa" to central Saharan territories like Chad and western African-fringe territories like Cameroon on some instances, while in other occasions, they apply it to the general region you are referring to. His reference hints on the latter, i.e. in and around the Congo Basin.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Not sure about the Great Lakes region, but East Africa was a major population source for the Nile Valley (Great Lakes in Eastern Africa though)
quote:Our findings are in accordance with other studies on Y-chromosome markers that have shown that the predominant Y-chromosome lineage in Berber communities is the subhaplogroup E1b1b1b (E-M81), which emerged in Africa, is specific to North African populations, and is almost absent in Europe, except in Iberia (Spain and Portugal) and Sicily. Molecular studies on the Y chromosome in North Africa are interpreted as indicating that the southern part of Africa, namely, the Horn/East Africa, was a major source of population in the Nile Valley and northwest Africa after the Last Glacial Maximum, with some migration into the Near East and southern Europe (Bosch et al. 2001; Underhill et al. 2001).
Ancient Local Evolution of African mtDNA Haplogroups in Tunisian Berber Populations Frigi et al.,
Posts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010
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^Frigi et al. are basing that on older studies (as evidenced by their references for it), but if we are to take Cruciani et al.(2007) at their word, then the E1b1b1a1 markers would have emerged in eastern Sahara (northeastern Africa) and then migrated south to the African Horn/Eastern Africa. The markers in question are of the E-M78 clade.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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^According to Battaglia et al., (2008) E-M78 originated in the region straddling southern Egypt and Northern Sudan, Near Lake Nubia where a refugium existed while the eastern Sahara was depopulated. But I see your point.
Posts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010
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Battaglia was likely basing that on the same Cruciani et al. study I was referring to. The regions you named are on eastern Sahara. There is no contradiction here.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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I have been trying to get you guys to pay more attention to the Great Lakes regions as one of the cultural incubators for Nile valley civilization for quite some time now,I tried to make the case that since the Great Lakes region is the one of the source of the Nile it was bound to have important cultural significance to civilizations down river one only need to recall the God Bes one of the early god of Kemet supposedly came from there and that the Ba-Twa was important for the dances of that God.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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Never said there was a contradiction (nor did I mean to imply it), said I saw your point. Just offering my 2 cents My bad for da confusion
Posts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: From Keita 1981:
Does anyone know what he means by "Central Africans"? When I hear that phrase, I think of people from the Congo Basin and adjacent areas. If that's what Keita meant, it would be hilariously ironic given all the insistence that the ancient Egyptians weren't "Congoids".
The first sentence in the image is somewhat more important than what you highlighted. I will have to read the full article but I am sure the answer can be found by looking at the references at the end of that statement.
Posts: 2463 | From: New Jersey USA | Registered: Dec 2007
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IronLion, any particular reason why you are trolling?
Explorer- Doesn't Underhill (2001) state that M35/M215 lineages expanded northwards from sub-Saharan east Africa (which is one study Frigi et al., bases their statement on) not M78?
Posts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010
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Well, tools are one thing and pots are another. Pre-metal era tool kits and pots are each usually associated with particular industries or cultures.
Comparing production and finished tool product or production and design of pottery from two regions can help determine relationship and direction of technology flow but not if the producers are themselves biologically related or not.
Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006
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Never said there was a contradiction (nor did I mean to imply it), said I saw your point. Just offering my 2 cents My bad for da confusion.
These threw me off then:
According to Battaglia et al., (2008) E-M78 originated in the region straddling southern Egypt and Northern Sudan, Near Lake Nubia where a refugium existed while the eastern Sahara was depopulated. But I see your point
...since after all, my comment did mention "eastern Sahara".
quote:
Explorer- Doesn't Underhill (2001) state that M35/M215 lineages expanded northwards from sub-Saharan east Africa (which is one study Frigi et al., bases their statement on) not M78?
When put that way, then I submit that it can be correct as well, although the piece about "some migration into the Near East and southern Europe" caused me to pause a bit about the migrations of merely [upstream] E-M35 markers, as opposed to derivatives of these markers -- namely E-M78 and E-M34.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Never said there was a contradiction (nor did I mean to imply it), said I saw your point. Just offering my 2 cents My bad for da confusion.
These threw me off then:
According to Battaglia et al., (2008) E-M78 originated in the region straddling southern Egypt and Northern Sudan, Near Lake Nubia where a refugium existed while the eastern Sahara was depopulated. But I see your point
...since after all, my comment did mention "eastern Sahara".
quote:
Explorer- Doesn't Underhill (2001) state that M35/M215 lineages expanded northwards from sub-Saharan east Africa (which is one study Frigi et al., bases their statement on) not M78?
When put that way, then I submit that it can be correct as well, although the piece about "some migration into the Near East and southern Europe" caused me to pause a bit about the migrations of merely [upstream] E-M35 markers, as opposed to derivatives of these markers -- namely E-M78 and E-M34.
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Never said there was a contradiction (nor did I mean to imply it), said I saw your point. Just offering my 2 cents My bad for da confusion.
These threw me off then:
According to Battaglia et al., (2008) E-M78 originated in the region straddling southern Egypt and Northern Sudan, Near Lake Nubia where a refugium existed while the eastern Sahara was depopulated. But I see your point
...since after all, my comment did mention "eastern Sahara".
quote:
Explorer- Doesn't Underhill (2001) state that M35/M215 lineages expanded northwards from sub-Saharan east Africa (which is one study Frigi et al., bases their statement on) not M78?
When put that way, then I submit that it can be correct as well, although the piece about "some migration into the Near East and southern Europe" caused me to pause a bit about the migrations of merely [upstream] E-M35 markers, as opposed to derivatives of these markers -- namely E-M78 and E-M34.
Never said there was a contradiction (nor did I mean to imply it), said I saw your point. Just offering my 2 cents My bad for da confusion.
These threw me off then:
According to Battaglia et al., (2008) E-M78 originated in the region straddling southern Egypt and Northern Sudan, Near Lake Nubia where a refugium existed while the eastern Sahara was depopulated. But I see your point
...since after all, my comment did mention "eastern Sahara".
I know, should have worded that better. But it was like 3AM at then, so I was kinda tired. I see why it causes confusion and I thought about editing, but I couldn't... Sorry
quote:
Explorer- Doesn't Underhill (2001) state that M35/M215 lineages expanded northwards from sub-Saharan east Africa (which is one study Frigi et al., bases their statement on) not M78?
quote:When put that way, then I submit that it can be correct as well, although the piece about "some migration into the Near East and southern Europe" caused me to pause a bit about the migrations of merely [upstream] E-M35 markers, as opposed to derivatives of these markers -- namely E-M78 and E-M34.
I see. Haven't read Bosch (2001) but Underhill states that M35/M215 migrated into the Levant and the Near East as well
Posts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010
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I don't use it. Why -- to plot data taken from discrete studies, like dienekes & co does?
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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I see. Haven't read Bosch (2001) but Underhill states that M35/M215 migrated into the Levant and the Near East as well
That is why I figured Battaglia et al. were relying on old data. M35 chromosomes are fairly rare to non-existent outside of Africa.
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Since the evidence here only speaks of pottery, and we have no genetic evidence of population movements from Central Africa, can one say that it was only a movement of materials or textile influence via trade?
Posts: 26412 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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What are the genetic markers present in Central Africa?
-------------------- The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008
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quote:Conclusion: Thus, with a solid stratigraphie and chronological context at Ounjougou, there is no doubt that ceramics appeared in sub-Saharan West Africa at least as early as in the Nile Valley,some time before 9400 cal BC. This innovation must be coupled with the re-establishment of the tropical grassland during the Early Holocene. Starting in the middle of the tenth millennium cal BC, the new technological complex may have rapidly diffused northwards, together with the advancing monsoon front, the greening of the Sahara and the massive expansion of edible Panicoid grasses
Source: The emergence of pottery in Africa during the tenth millennium cal BC: new evidence from Ounjougou (Mali)
E. Huysecom^*, M. Rasse , L Lespez^, K. Neumann , A. Fahmy^, A. Ballouche*-', S. Ozainne^ M. MaggettP, Ch. Tribolo** 6¿ S. Soriano'^ (2009)
I was unable to see how anybody could get free access to the above, so here is the Download linkPosts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I take it Dumbhead Mau will now claim Brace is also a debunked Afrocentric!![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
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