...
EgyptSearch Forums Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» EgyptSearch Forums » Deshret » Thutmose I's "curly-haired" ones and the Etymology of "Nubia" (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: Thutmose I's "curly-haired" ones and the Etymology of "Nubia"
Sundjata
Member
Member # 13096

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sundjata     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
So, recently I've been trying to reconcile the stela 8 passage as quoted by J. H. Breasted:

quote:
"He (i.e. Thutmose I) has overthrown the chief of the Nubians. The Nubian is helpless, defenseless in his grasp. He has united the boundaries of his two sides, there is not a remnant of the Curly-Haired who come to attack him; there is not a single survivor among them. The Nubians fall by the sword and are thrust aside in their lands. Their foulness, it floods their valleys; theÉ of their mouths is like a violent flood. The fragments cut from them are too much for the birds (who eat carrion)
--Nubianet

^So what I was trying to reconcile basically was why an individual who belongs to a population of "curly-haired" people, would distinguish another population on the basis of their curly hair? Were the Egyptians then, not curly-haired?

My uneasiness seems justified after I came across an old book from H. A. MacMichael called "History of the Arabs in Sudan", where interestingly, he associates the term used by Breasted to denote curly-hairedness ("nebed"), with the term later used by Arabs as a reference to the Nobatae, and thus, 'Nubia'. It is also shown that the Breasted translation is wrong not just on the Nehesi/Negro translation, but the "nebed"/curly-haired translation as the term more appropriately denotes "plaited-hair" (recalling that this was considered a sign of distinguished birth in Egypt its self according to the Greeks).

quote:
He speaks of "the Novfiat." Later the name occurs as Nou/3«Se?, or in the Latinized form of Nobatae.

The ultimate derivation of the word is not known, but it appears to be of very ancient origin and may be connected through the Coptic NOTBT (meaning "to plait") with "nebed," the word used in the inscription of Thothmes I (date c. 1540 B.C.) to denote "the plaited-haired ones," or as it is perhaps with less accuracy translated "the curly-haired ones" whom that monarch overthrew in the neighbourhood of the third cataract: "He hath overthrown the chief of the "Nubians 1 ; the Negro [nehesi] is helpless There is not a remnant among the curly-haired, who came to attack him 2 ."

I imagine that the Arabs simply adopted the word which they found commonly used in Egypt to denote collectively the races living south of the first cataract 3 .

With ethnological differentiation they

1 Ap. Strabo, Bk. xvn, ed. Casaubon, p. 786.

2 Breasted, A. R. 11, 71, and S el igman, Journ. Anthr. Inst, xliii, 1913, pp. 616, 618. The latter says, "With regard to the word in the inscription of Thothmes I rendered 'the curly-haired,' i.e. as a synonym of 'Negro' {nehesi), written earlier in the inscription... it is necessary to exercise a certain amount of caution, for Miss Murray points out that this word reads Nebed, and is determined by a lock of hair, i.e. 'the curly-haired' stands for 'the nebed-haired.' But 'nebed,' according to Brugsch, does not mean ' curly,' but is the equivalent of the French tresser, natter, entrelacer, and is akin to the Coptic NOTBT =plectere, intexere."

--Source


^Keep in mind that this is 1922. A mistranslation of Nehesi to "Negro" was quite common and I'm sure wasn't corrected until relatively recently. It still hasn't been fully corrected clearly either as displayed above if nehesi and nebed are two different words yet the word "Nubian" can only be associated with the latter.

Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Swenet
Member
Member # 17303

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Swenet     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
 -

Tutmose I

Warrior Pharao and the founder of great political and intellectual heritage of the 18th dynasty. Later Amarna rulers were able to sit back and immerse themselves in wealth and prosperity (and indifference in foreign politics) because of his foreign policy and constant campaigning.

The bastard also contributed to the fall of Kerma.

Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BrandonP
Member
Member # 3735

Icon 1 posted      Profile for BrandonP   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I knew there was something wrong with that translation by Breasted. Good find!

--------------------
Brought to you by Brandon S. Pilcher

My art thread on ES

And my books thread

Posts: 7105 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BrandonP
Member
Member # 3735

Icon 1 posted      Profile for BrandonP   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
To be honest, though, I'm not so sure the Egyptians had curly hair on average. According to this study done on Egyptian hair, the average trichometer index ranged between 65.2 and 72.1, the latter rating being typical of straighter hair (though admittedly the 72.1 rating came from a small predynastic sample).

 -

Download here

--------------------
Brought to you by Brandon S. Pilcher

My art thread on ES

And my books thread

Posts: 7105 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Swenet
Member
Member # 17303

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Swenet     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
The means for the indices of the ten
samples in the series shown in table 1 indicate a range of 16
points, viz., from 70 to 86
This spread covers all divisions of
hair form according to Martin ('28) who considered hair with
an index of 50-75 to be curly; 75-80 wavy; and 80-100 to be
straight.
It is of interest that two samples (94 and 310) were
wavy, if not curly, in the gross specinieii aiid that two other
samples, whose indices were eveii lou7cr (392 and 310-77) appeared
to be straight. The range of means for the indices of
ten Negroes found by Steggerda and Seibert ('41) amounted
to 17 points.

However, the hair of the total group of Paracas mummies
shows a mean of 81.81 for the index which stands midway
between Woodbury axid Woodburp's fiiidiiigs for the Mesa
Verde Indians of 79.77 and for the Basket Maker Indians
of 82.81. It is within the range of indices reported by Steggerda
and Seibert for the Maya, Hopi, Navajo and Zuni Indians (85.04, 82.98, 82.53, 80.46, respectively).

EDIT: Yeah Truthcentric, you're right.
I guess I got thrown off by the seperate mentions of cross section and transverse index. The former mention pertains to meassurements of the cross section, the latter to cross section index

quote:
Lengthening of the hair has been related to the breaking charge, to main cross-section
diameters
and to transverse index (100 x minimum diumeter~maximumd iamehr) by computing
correlation and multiple regression coefficients (Table 1).


Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BrandonP
Member
Member # 3735

Icon 1 posted      Profile for BrandonP   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
EDIT: NM, Kalonji had a very good point.
Posts: 7105 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BrandonP
Member
Member # 3735

Icon 1 posted      Profile for BrandonP   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Kalonji:
Still reading the study and trying to understand its content, but please note that cross section index and transverse index are not the same

I looked at the Paracas Indian study you cited, and it defines its indices as smallest diameter * 100/largest diameter, the same as the tranverse index in the study I cited. So, yes, they would be the same.
Posts: 7105 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Swenet
Member
Member # 17303

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Swenet     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
From the Strouhal study recently uploaded by Calabooz:
quote:
In some of the Badarian crania hair was preserved, thanks to good conditions
in the desert sand. In the first series, according to the description of
the excavators, they were curly in 6 cases, wavy in 33 cases and straight in
io cases. They were black in I6 samples, dark brown in II, brown in I2,
light brown in i and grey in I I cases.25
Thanks to the courtesy of Dr Lawrence and Dr Garlick from the
Duckworth Laboratory in Cambridge, I was able to take samples of seven
of the racially mixed Badarian individuals which were macroscopically
curly (spirals of Io-20 mm in diameter) or wavy (25-35 mm). They were
studied microscopically by S. Tittelbachova' from the Institute of Anthropology
of the Charles University, who found in five out of seven samples a
change in the thickness of the hair in the course of its length, sometimes
with a simultaneous narrowing of the hair
pith. The outline of the crosssections
of the hairs was flattened, with indices ranging from 35 to 65.

These peculiarities also show the Negroid influence among the Badarians.

^Despite all of his embarassing lingo, and odd coloration, he found that the hair morphology showed traits commonly found in a subset of African hair, namely, constrictions along the shaft and flattened shapes.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
alTakruri
Member
Member # 10195

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for alTakruri   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It'd be nice to see the primary text to know just
what the exact spelling is, what glyphs surround
the word, and what if any illustration goes with
the text.

Lacking that, the variant I find for nebet which
most likely is used to describe the Nehesi means
twisted or braided, a hairstyle seen in many an
image of Nehesi.

Nebd appears in the name of a particular Nehesi
people known as Nebdu-qed and is the word on
the Tombos Stele of Thutmose I erected near the
third cataract and referenced in the opening post.

"Nebet" does not distinguish hair texture implied
by the "curly" translation. Mes means a hair curl.
Nebt/nebd applies to how the hair is arranged.

Interestingly enough, one meaning of wawat is hair.

Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Chosen1
Member
Member # 18528

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Chosen1     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
LOL!! Look at you doing all sorts of gymnastics to "reconcile" what contradicts your belief in Black Egypt. Clearly, you have no academic honesty for the mere fact, you are trying to force the information to conform to your nonsensical belief.

You guys are off the chain!!!

Posts: 270 | Registered: Jan 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
alTakruri
Member
Member # 10195

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for alTakruri   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
 -


 -


 -

 -

Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Swenet
Member
Member # 17303

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Swenet     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Afrocentric Liars Exposed:
LOL!! Look at you doing all sorts of gymnastics to "reconcile" what contradicts your belief in Black Egypt. Clearly, you have no academic honesty for the mere fact, you are trying to force the information to conform to your nonsensical belief.

You guys are off the chain!!!

What non-sensical belief?
That the Badarians clustered with the Teita?
That the Badarians had a nasal index of 50+?
Or that the peoples with whom the Egyptians had common ancestry show same hair characteristics?

Welcome to the real world, bub.

Africans don't conform to your pre conceived notions.

Christian period Nubians on a cranial map:

 -

The same Africans populations when their hair is examined

  • Parallel 1 with Badarian hair:


Meroitic and Christian period Nubians
Pigmentation,
even allowing for oxidation of melanin, showed a higher proportion of lighter
samples than is currently associated with the Nubian area.


http://wysinger.homestead.com/hair_semma.pdf

Badarian
In some of the Badarian crania hair was preserved, thanks to good conditions
in the desert sand.
(...)
They were black in I6 samples, dark brown in 11, brown in I2, light brown in 1 and grey in 11 cases.


  • Parallel 2 with Badarian hair:

Meroitic and Christian period group
The average diameter of the Semna sample
was close to both the N.W. European and East
African samples, which are of medium thickness.
Of the variables that best distinguish
European and African samples, the total Semna
sample was closer to the European on average
curvature, crimp, and ratio of length.


Badarian
In some of the Badarian crania hair was preserved, thanks to good conditions
in the desert sand. In the first series, according to the description of
the excavators, they were curly in 6 cases, wavy in 33 cases and straight in
10 cases.

Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Calabooz '
Member
Member # 18238

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Calabooz '   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
On the matter of hair, Joan Fletcher correctly states that color can definitely be changed by the environment:


The search for Nefertiti: the true story of an amazing discovery
By Joann Fletcher

 -

 -


Thought that was interesting. However, she has also classified Egyptian hair as 'Caucasoid' in the past. Not sure exactly where the article she wrote this in though...

Posts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Calabooz '
Member
Member # 18238

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Calabooz '   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote:
Originally posted by Afrocentric Liars Exposed:
LOL!! Look at you doing all sorts of gymnastics to "reconcile" what contradicts your belief in Black Egypt. Clearly, you have no academic honesty for the mere fact, you are trying to force the information to conform to your nonsensical belief.

You guys are off the chain!!!

What non-sensical belief?
That the Badarians clustered with the Teita?
That the Badarians had a nasal index of 50+?
Or that the peoples with whom the Egyptians had common ancestry show same hair characteristics?

Welcome to the real world, bub.

Africans don't conform to your pre conceived notions.

Christian period Nubians on a cranial map:

 -

The same Africans populations when there hair is examined

Parralels with Egyptian hair in peculiar coloration:

Meroitic and Christian period Nubians
Pigmentation,
even allowing for oxidation of melanin, showed a higher proportion of lighter
samples than is currently associated with the Nubian area.


http://wysinger.homestead.com/hair_semma.pdf

Badarian
In some of the Badarian crania hair was preserved, thanks to good conditions
in the desert sand.
(...)
They were black in I6 samples, dark brown in 11, brown in I2, light brown in 1 and grey in 11 cases.


Paralells with Badarian hair:
Meroitic and Christian period group
The average diameter of the Semna sample
was close to both the N.W. European and East
African samples, which are of medium thickness.
Of the variables that best distinguish
European and African samples, the total Semna
sample was closer to the European on average
curvature, crimp, and ratio of length.


Badarian
In some of the Badarian crania hair was preserved, thanks to good conditions
in the desert sand. In the first series, according to the description of
the excavators, they were curly in 6 cases, wavy in 33 cases and straight in
10 cases.

Analysis of Badarian Crania by Zakrzewski 2002 also found the Badarian to be morphologically homogeneous. Which hurts the euro-centric ideology even more given that they show morphological clusters with southern African groups. Not to mention that they are found to be the 'centroid' in both cranial (zakrzewski 2007) and dental (Irish 2006) analysis. So they are quite similar to latter Egyptians and a good representative of the ancestors to the Egyptians  -
Posts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
alTakruri
Member
Member # 10195

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for alTakruri   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Besides Thutmose I, Amenhotep II, Seti I, and 19th
dynasty inscriptions also mention the Nebdu qed.

It's been shown, referencing Thutmose I's stela at
Tombos, that Nebdu qed, applies to one particular
set of Nehesi perhaps characterized by their hair
twists.

So nebd has nothing to do with type of hair, i.e.,
nappy, frizzy, curly, wavy, straight, but the style
of hair.

But the question of hair type, Egyptian vs Nehesi, in
the 18th and 19th dynasties cannot be answered by
any other data than hair samples of the two at that
era in time.

Is any such data available?

I would expect to see a south-north cline from woolly in
Southern Nubia to slightly wavy in the Delta extremities
as norms with individual variance scattered throughout.

= = =

Fletcher categorized the majority AE hairtype as
cynotrichous, a made up term encompassing all hair
that isn't heliotrichous (another made up term). The
latter is only one hair type, but the former has five
different hair types.

Her contrived terms dog hair and sun hair describe
nothing. In effect, and without bluntly using racial
terminology Fletcher has turned ulotrichous (woolly
hair) into negro hair (her heliotrichous)leaving both
cymotrichous and leiotrichous hair types for non-negro
hair (her cynotrichous).

See the thread Egyptian's hair and hairstyles

As for head lice, they come in disctinct sub-species.
The scientific name of the lice Fletcher found would
allow us to know if the hair was naturally woolly or not.
African lice are adapted to traverse oval cross sectioned hair.

More on hair at Ancient Egyptian and east african hair styles.

Posts: 8014 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Swenet
Member
Member # 17303

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Swenet     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by L':
Analysis of Badarian Crania by Zakrzewski 2002 also found the Badarian to be morphologically homogeneous. Which hurts the euro-centric ideology even more given that they show morphological clusters with southern African groups. Not to mention that they are found to be the 'centroid' in both cranial (zakrzewski 2007) and dental (Irish 2006) analysis. So they are quite similar to latter Egyptians and a good representative of the ancestors to the Egyptians  -

^Jep

What Afrocentric Liars Exposed doesn't realize is that it takes more acrobatics to ignore the rest of multidisciplinary work (and just focus on hair) than it does to look at all lines of evidence (Craniofacial, post cranial etc).

 -

^African from Punt, used recently in my vid

Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Calabooz '
Member
Member # 18238

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Calabooz '   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
^Oh right, meant to ask, where is the above image from? Haven't seem many depictions of Puntites
Posts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Swenet
Member
Member # 17303

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Swenet     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Its from Queen Hatshepsut's temple in Deir el-Bahari. Of course, people rarely upload images with Africans on them that look similar to the Ancient Egyptians. They get a kick out of gazing at Ancient Egyptian caricatures of Nubians, which is why we have such a hard time color finding images of Tehenu's, but no trouble finding caricatures and pictures where fellow Africans are subdued.
Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Sundjata
Member
Member # 13096

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sundjata     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by alTakruri:
 -


 -


 -

 -

This is very helpful, thanks.

quote:
Besides Thutmose I, Amenhotep II, Seti I, and 19th
dynasty inscriptions also mention the Nebdu qed.

It's been shown, referencing Thutmose I's stela at
Tombos, that Nebdu qed, applies to one particular
set of Nehesi perhaps characterized by their hair
twists.

So nebd has nothing to do with type of hair, i.e.,
nappy, frizzy, curly, wavy, straight, but the style
of hair.

But the question of hair type, Egyptian vs Nehesi, in
the 18th and 19th dynasties cannot be answered by
any other data than hair samples of the two at that
era in time.

Is any such data available?

I would expect to see a south-north cline from woolly in
Southern Nubia to slightly wavy in the Delta extremities
as norms with individual variance scattered throughout.

= = =

Fletcher categorized the majority AE hairtype as
cynotrichous, a made up term encompassing all hair
that isn't heliotrichous (another made up term). The
latter is only one hair type, but the former has five
different hair types.

Her contrived terms dog hair and sun hair describe
nothing. In effect, and without bluntly using racial
terminology Fletcher has turned ulotrichous (woolly
hair) into negro hair (her heliotrichous)leaving both
cymotrichous and leiotrichous hair types for non-negro
hair (her cynotrichous).

See the thread Egyptian's hair and hairstyles

As for head lice, they come in disctinct sub-species.
The scientific name of the lice Fletcher found would
allow us to know if the hair was naturally woolly or not.
African lice are adapted to traverse oval cross sectioned hair.

More on hair at Ancient Egyptian and east african hair styles. [/qb]

Very interesting. Considering the various ethnic groups that roamed the southern frontiers, I'm inclined to believe that the word indeed may have been more directly applied to the Nobatae known to the Romans, who are likely ancestors of the modern Nuba. Striking since the Nuba have preserved traditions of hair plating and wrestling. Piny the elder also described traditions in body painting beyond Meroe, which the Nuba are still known for. I think the hair-plating in Egypt, described by Timolaus to be a sign of distinguished birth (of "free" men), may reflect a way of preserving older African traditions in a more stratified society.

Very good observation about the head lice as well. I haven't read much on Fletcher concerning this.. Do you, or does anyone else know if she's ever made direct reference to the sub-species or referenced somebody who does?

Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Sundjata
Member
Member # 13096

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sundjata     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Truthcentric:
To be honest, though, I'm not so sure the Egyptians had curly hair on average. According to this study done on Egyptian hair, the average trichometer index ranged between 65.2 and 72.1, the latter rating being typical of straighter hair (though admittedly the 72.1 rating came from a small predynastic sample).

 -

Download here

Truth, this study was already cited and put into a larger context in the "Egyptology: Hanging in the hair" article. Zarahan has it on his site as well. You can't just throw out some random range, even admitting that the higher end of the range has considerably less weight due to small sample size, while still maintaining that you are "not so sure" that Egyptian hair was curly, despite it being described as such in ethnohistoric testimony.

From the study: "Because of the exceedingly small number of subjects in the predynastic sample, from which erratic results may arise, no definite comments are possible on such subjects, at this stage of research, in the field of correlation."

^Also, remember Keita points out that pre-dynastic Badari hair was generally no different from Kanuri, Funali, and Somali hair.


So anyways, the mean from this and their previous 1972 study was 66.50 according to West Africa Magazine. Posting this still doesn't change the fact as reported from the selected studies combined which show that the overall mean [disregard the range] was closer to the sub-Saharan average (60 um).

Also if Kalonji's source is correct, this is further evidence using the data alluded to that Egyptian hair form was perfectly within the "curly" range. Even without the other studies lowering the overall mean, 66.5 is still in the mid-range with respect to the two extremes of curly-haired diversity and the range in sub-Saharan Africa swinging an entire 17 points in each direction, should further demonstrate that Egyptian hair form was fully a part of that Saharo-tropical variation.

Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Swenet
Member
Member # 17303

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Swenet     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote:
Originally posted by Afrocentric Liars Exposed:
LOL!! Look at you doing all sorts of gymnastics to "reconcile" what contradicts your belief in Black Egypt. Clearly, you have no academic honesty for the mere fact, you are trying to force the information to conform to your nonsensical belief.

You guys are off the chain!!!

What non-sensical belief?
That the Badarians clustered with the Teita?
That the Badarians had a nasal index of 50+?
Or that the peoples with whom the Egyptians had common ancestry show same hair characteristics?

Welcome to the real world, bub.

Africans don't conform to your pre conceived notions.

Christian period Nubians on a cranial map:

 -

The same Africans populations when their hair is examined

  • Parallel 1 with Badarian hair:


Meroitic and Christian period Nubians
Pigmentation,
even allowing for oxidation of melanin, showed a higher proportion of lighter
samples than is currently associated with the Nubian area.


http://wysinger.homestead.com/hair_semma.pdf

Badarian
In some of the Badarian crania hair was preserved, thanks to good conditions
in the desert sand.
(...)
They were black in I6 samples, dark brown in 11, brown in I2, light brown in 1 and grey in 11 cases.


  • Parallel 2 with Badarian hair:

Meroitic and Christian period group
The average diameter of the Semna sample
was close to both the N.W. European and East
African samples, which are of medium thickness.
Of the variables that best distinguish
European and African samples, the total Semna
sample was closer to the European on average
curvature, crimp, and ratio of length.


Badarian
In some of the Badarian crania hair was preserved, thanks to good conditions
in the desert sand. In the first series, according to the description of
the excavators, they were curly in 6 cases, wavy in 33 cases and straight in
10 cases.

Couldn't find my own post yesterday when I searched for it on internet, but managed to find it with the help of the keywords from the original file on my HD:

quote:
Originally posted by Kalonji:
quote:
The man has straight hair, in his case this indicates Arabian peninsula ancestry
^Also explain how straight hair is indicative of ancestry from the Arabian peninsule, when Amhara's with sometimes as much as 40% J haplogroup, actually have lesser incidences of straight, wavy and curly hair than Somali's have:

quote:
According to our own classification, 40 per cent of the Amharas have non-negroid, wavy or curly hair, and the rest frizzly; the non-negroid class among the Gallas is 30 per cent, among the Somalis 86 per cent. Some of the Somalis actually have straight hair.
^According to racist Carleton Coon

  • Parallel 3 with Badarian hair:

Badarian
In some of the Badarian crania hair was preserved, thanks to good conditions
in the desert sand. In the first series, according to the description of
the excavators, they were curly in 6 cases, wavy in 33 cases and straight in
10 cases.


East African Horn populations:
According to our own classification, 40 per cent of the Amharas have non-negroid, wavy or curly hair, and the rest frizzly; the non-negroid class among the Gallas is 30 per cent, among the Somalis 86 per cent. Some of the Somalis actually have straight hair.

Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BrandonP
Member
Member # 3735

Icon 1 posted      Profile for BrandonP   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
All this talk about variation in African hair texture made me wonder why humans evolved kinky hair in the first place, so I decided to look it up. Here is what Wikipedia, citing Nina Jablonski, argues:

quote:
Jablonski agrees that it was evolutionarily advantageous for pre-humans to retain the hair on their heads in order to protect the scalp as they walked upright in the intense African (equatorial) UV light. While some might argue that, by this logic, humans should also express hairy shoulders given that these body parts would putatively be exposed to similar conditions, the protection of the head, the seat of the brain that enabled humanity to become one of the most successful species on the planet (and which also is very vulnerable at birth), was arguably a more urgent issue (axillary hair in the underarms and groin were also retained as signs of sexual maturity). During the gradual process by which Homo erectus made a transition from furry to naked skin, their hair texture putatively changed gradually from straight (the condition of most mammals, including humanity's closest cousins—chimpanzees), to Afro-like or 'kinky' (i.e. tightly coiled). In this sense, during the period in which humans were gradually losing their straight body hair and thereby exposing initially the pale skin underneath their fur to the sun, straight hair would have been an adaptive liability. Hence, tightly coiled or 'kinky' Afro-hair may have evolved to prevent the entry of UV light into the body during the transition toward dark, UV-protected skin.

Alternatively, some intuit that tightly coiled hair that grows into a typical Afro-like formation would have greatly reduced the ability of the head and brain to cool. They reason that although hair density in African peoples is much less than their European counterparts, in the intense sun the effective 'woolly hat' produced would have been a disadvantage. However, anthropologists such as Nina Jablonski make the opposite argument with regards to this hair texture. Specifically, Jablonski's assertions suggest that the adjective "woolly" in reference to Afro-hair is a misnomer to the extent that it connotes the high heat insulation derivable from the true wool of sheep. Instead, the relatively sparse density of Afro-hair, combined with its springy coils actually results in an airy, almost sponge-like effect. This, in turn, Jablonski argues, more likely facilitates an increase in the circulation of cool air onto the scalp. Further, Afro-hair does not respond so easily to moisture and sweat as straight hair. Thus it does not stick to the neck and scalp when wet. Rather, unless totally drenched, it tends to retain its basic springy puffiness. In this sense, the trait may enhance comfort levels in intense equatorial climates compared to straight hair (which, on the other hand, tends to naturally fall over the ears and neck to a degree that provides slightly enhanced comfort levels in cold climates relative to tightly coiled hair).

The first argument suggests that kinky hair was advantageous in any high UV environment, which makes you wonder about those dark-skinned peoples with straighter hair, but the second suggests that moisture may also be a factor (which may explain why Africans living in relatively dry environments are more likely to have straight hair).

--------------------
Brought to you by Brandon S. Pilcher

My art thread on ES

And my books thread

Posts: 7105 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BrandonP
Member
Member # 3735

Icon 1 posted      Profile for BrandonP   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Another study on Egyptian hair:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/fx3bnz

The average trichometer rating of the twelve mummies sampled here is around 67, still in the curly hair range.

--------------------
Brought to you by Brandon S. Pilcher

My art thread on ES

And my books thread

Posts: 7105 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Swenet
Member
Member # 17303

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Swenet     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wanted to make a thread about African hair morphology a long time ago, but I awaited the accumulation of enough data. Now that we're discussing hair, I might as well sprinkle a few relevant bits of information.

quote:
A recent, and long awaited, systematic examination of the protein structure of
hairs from Asian, Caucasian and African individuals31 revealed no differences by
X-ray analysis in the structure of the hair keratin. This research team also examined
the degree of radial swelling of hair of each ethnic grouping when placed in water.
Here, African hair exhibited the lowest radial swelling rate and lowest maximum
swelling. By contrast, both Asian and Caucasian gave similar statistically higher
values, after normalisation for initial shaft diameters. An explanation for this
finding remains elusive, particularly in light of the similar x-ray results on protein
structure.

Asian hair has the greatest fibre diameter and exhibits a circular sectional profile
with a mean ellipticity of approximately 90%, giving it an almost fully circular
profile. In contrast, African hair exhibits high inter-individual variability with
regard to diameter but also with respect to the degree of ellipticity of the hair fibre
cross-section. The mean ellipticity value is closer to 60%, although there is also
much variability along the length of the hair fibres.
Importantly, one aspect of the
cross-sectional profile may be prominently flattened.
Together, these features
impart an overall shape to African hair that resembles a twisted rod, but also with
focal constrictions'
along the hair shaft. Caucasian hair fibres however, have an
intermediate diameter with a cross-sectional shape that is less oval and with an
ellipticity value of 75%.31 As a result, Asian and Caucasian hair fibres are more
cylindric than those of Africans.
-Hair in Toxicology - An Important Bio-Monitor

Together, these features
impart an overall shape to African hair that resembles a twisted rod, but also with
focal constrictions'
along the hair shaft.


The above calls to mind Eugene Strouhals observations about the hair strands of what he calls ''mized individuals'':

quote:
Thanks to the courtesy of Dr Lawrence and Dr Garlick from the
Duckworth Laboratory in Cambridge, I was able to take samples of seven
of the racially mixed Badarian individuals which were macroscopically
curly (spirals of Io-20 mm in diameter) or wavy (25-35 mm). They were
studied microscopically by S. Tittelbachova' from the Institute of Anthropology
of the Charles University, who found in five out of seven samples a
change in the thickness of the hair in the course of its length, sometimes
with a simultaneous narrowing of the hair pith.
The outline of the crosssections
of the hairs was flattened, with indices ranging from 35 to 65.
These peculiarities also show the Negroid influence among the Badarians.


Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
the lioness,
Member
Member # 17353

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for the lioness,     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If you are going to talk this precisely about the dimensions of hair
tightly coiled Afro 'kinky' hair is by definition
different from "curly hair" of the type which is loosely curled and of different thickness

Posts: 42988 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Sundjata
Member
Member # 13096

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sundjata     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Truthcentric:
Another study on Egyptian hair:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/fx3bnz

The average trichometer rating of the twelve mummies sampled here is around 67, still in the curly hair range.

Same 1972 study cited on Myra and Zarahan's site, already included into the overall index of 60.02. Though since according to Kalonji's source, since the range stretches a full 17 points, averaging several points above the mean still describes a population well within that range of variation (add to that possible micro-adaptations to an arid environment).
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Explorador
Member
Member # 14778

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Explorador   Author's Homepage         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Truthcentric:

To be honest, though, I'm not so sure the Egyptians had curly hair on average.

 -

I take it that this guy, by the looks of his hair, must have stood out as a sore thumb from the "average" ancient Egyptian of his day, huh? And what about those ancient Greek testimonials about "wooly hair" in ancient Egyptians, essentially stereotyping Egyptians in that way -- could it be that they were really describing "straight" hair as "wooly" hair?

Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
the lioness,
Member
Member # 17353

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for the lioness,     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
 -


Hesire,

Original versions:

 -

 -

t
 -

 -

The three wood panels found in the Mastaba tomb of Hesire show Hesire in both straight rowed and curly haired wigs

http://books.google.com/books?id=cAyjwKyoHiEC&pg=PA63&lpg=PA63&dq=hesire+wig&

The Egyptian Museum in Cairo: a walk through the alleys of ancient Egypt
By Farid Atiya, Abeer El-Shahawy, Matḥaf al-Miṣrī, Farid S. Atiya

p63

#37-39

Posts: 42988 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Explorador
Member
Member # 14778

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Explorador   Author's Homepage         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:

quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
 -


Hesire,

Original versions:

 -


Posting the "original" version in reply does what, since after all, the only difference between this and the one I posted, is that the latter is essentially the profile of the figure cropped out from the remainder of the photo? Nothing aside from this, has been altered. Your photo shows the guy still sporting an "Afro".


quote:


The three wood panels found in the Mastaba tomb of Hesire show Hesire in both straight rowed and curly haired wigs

Can't help but notice that you call the "Afro" a "curly haired wig". What evidence do you have of this?

The "Afro" wig would be one of its kind I've ever seen, not to mention that it clearly features that guy's hair line, showing his ear cartilages. Where can I find other good examples of that kind of "Afro" wig, as characterized by the coils shown on Hesire's, and clearly marking his hair line and nicely following the outline of the ear?

Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Djehuti
Member
Member # 6698

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Djehuti     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
^ Correct. If the afro was indeed wig, then the ears would be covered! Virtually all afro type wigs worn by the Egyptians were those that covered the ears. Some Egyptologists believe the covering of ears by wigs is a sign of high status. So the Lyingass's point is lost as usual.

To the author of this thread Sundjata, it's good you pointed out that discrepancy in that passage by Breasted. This is the same James Breasted after all who translated "Nhsw" to mean "negro"! LOL

No doubt the Euronuts take this passage as another sign of "race-war". I can see those fools (like Euronut liar exposed) frothing and further transcribing Breasted's sentence to mean "there is not a remnant of the Nappy-Haired who come to attack him.." LOL [Big Grin]

quote:
Originally posted by alTakruri:

It'd be nice to see the primary text to know just
what the exact spelling is, what glyphs surround
the word, and what if any illustration goes with
the text.

Lacking that, the variant I find for nebet which
most likely is used to describe the Nehesi means
twisted or braided, a hairstyle seen in many an
image of Nehesi.

Nebd appears in the name of a particular Nehesi people known as Nebdu-qed and is the word on the Tombos Stele of Thutmose I erected near the third cataract and referenced in the opening post.

"Nebet" does not distinguish hair texture implied
by the "curly" translation. Mes means a hair curl. Nebt/nebd applies to how the hair is arranged.

Interestingly enough, one meaning of wawat is hair.

I agree. As Sundjata pointed out, braided hair especially elaborate styles was a sign of high-birth in Egypt as also noted by the ancient Greeks. Yet we know there are African peoples further south in the Nile today who wear their hair in braids regardless of status. I believe the name may imply a certain style of braids that these people wore. By the way, didn't Wally try to translate Nebet to "nappy" before? LOL
Posts: 26348 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Explorador
Member
Member # 14778

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Explorador   Author's Homepage         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:

^ Correct. If the afro was indeed wig, then the ears would be covered! Virtually all afro type wigs worn by the Egyptians were those that covered the ears. Some Egyptologists believe the covering of ears by wigs is a sign of high status. So the Lyingass's point is lost as usual.

The image simply corroborates ancient Greek historians' caricaturization of hair texture amongst ancient Egyptians. Otherwise one would have to assume that the visual instances of "Afro hair" in ancient Egyptian art just so happen to be the capturing anomalous occasions, and that the Greeks too were mis-characterizing "straight" hair as "woolly hair".
Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Djehuti
Member
Member # 6698

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Djehuti     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
^ LOL Good point. Whether the woolly hair were wigs or their own hair, the point is the Egyptians had woolly hair.
Posts: 26348 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Explorador
Member
Member # 14778

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Explorador   Author's Homepage         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't know that many people who go around wearing "wigs" that are vastly distinct in texture from their own, for that matter.

--------------------
The Complete Picture of the Past tells Us what Not to Repeat

Posts: 7516 | From: Somewhere on Earth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
the lioness,
Member
Member # 17353

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for the lioness,     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
Can't help but notice that you call the "Afro" a "curly haired wig". What evidence do you have of this?


http://books.google.com/books?id=cAyjwKyoHiEC&pg=PA63&lpg=PA63&dq=hesire+wig&

The Egyptian Museum in Cairo: a walk through the alleys of ancient Egypt
By Farid Atiya, Abeer El-Shahawy, Matḥaf al-Miṣrī, Farid S. Atiya

>>>p63

(images #37-39)

Posts: 42988 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Swenet
Member
Member # 17303

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Swenet     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
I don't know that many people who go around wearing "wigs" that are vastly distinct in texture from their own, for that matter.
Then that probably means you don't know the Ancient Egyptians, per your own words.

It was a practice of many Ancient Egyptians to shave their scalp hair and wear wigs for decorative and hygienic reasons.

Posts: 8785 | From: Discovery Channel's Mythbusters | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ish Geber
Member
Member # 18264

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ish Geber     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
Can't help but notice that you call the "Afro" a "curly haired wig". What evidence do you have of this?


http://books.google.com/books?id=cAyjwKyoHiEC&pg=PA63&lpg=PA63&dq=hesire+wig&

The Egyptian Museum in Cairo: a walk through the alleys of ancient Egypt
By Farid Atiya, Abeer El-Shahawy, Matḥaf al-Miṣrī, Farid S. Atiya

>>>p63

(images #37-39)

 -

 -

 -


 -

 -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRlQEmumk5s

 -

Posts: 22245 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ish Geber
Member
Member # 18264

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ish Geber     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Images are too large for implementation. Without CCS-support.

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8919/33051328january0871.jpg


http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3596/33051550january0921.jpg


http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5847/33052162january0991.jpg


http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5148/21bbejatribesmandsc0270.jpg

Posts: 22245 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ish Geber
Member
Member # 18264

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ish Geber     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
By coincidence, I only noticed this later, the last picture from the previous post.


http://euler.slu.edu/~bart/egyptimage/queens/QueenHetepheres_Bed-FuneraryFurniture_MuseumOfFineArtsBoston.jpg

 -

Posts: 22245 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ish Geber
Member
Member # 18264

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ish Geber     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Whoops that is...


 -

Posts: 22245 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ish Geber
Member
Member # 18264

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ish Geber     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
quote:
Originally posted by The Explorer:
Can't help but notice that you call the "Afro" a "curly haired wig". What evidence do you have of this?


http://books.google.com/books?id=cAyjwKyoHiEC&pg=PA63&lpg=PA63&dq=hesire+wig&

The Egyptian Museum in Cairo: a walk through the alleys of ancient Egypt
By Farid Atiya, Abeer El-Shahawy, Matḥaf al-Miṣrī, Farid S. Atiya

>>>p63

(images #37-39)

On what do they base that those are wigs? I mean those are reliefs and statues.


I like to know what the people look like who have put that book together. And what are their credentials?

Posts: 22245 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Sundjata
Member
Member # 13096

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sundjata     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
^It appears to be a wig as evinced from the fact that he has a different hair-style in each tomb scene and to the extent which the hair looks completely different. Afros don't hang, in image 38 his hair is long and free flowing (however, they look as though they can be locks) while in image 39 he has an afro again but this time it covers his ears and actually looks curlier. Either way, Egyptians used human hair, so whatever.

BTW, If I were you, I wouldn't respond to lioness.

Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ish Geber
Member
Member # 18264

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ish Geber     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by the lioness:
If you are going to talk this precisely about the dimensions of hair
tightly coiled Afro 'kinky' hair is by definition
different from "curly hair" of the type which is loosely curled and of different thickness

So what about when its somewhat in between? Is that posible? [Confused]

Or is there a "BORDERLINE", do you have this?

Posts: 22245 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Sundjata
Member
Member # 13096

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sundjata     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
^^
quote:
BTW, If I were you, I wouldn't respond to lioness.
OR, we can always ruin the thread by blabbering over trivialities with a clearly incompetent objector.
Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ish Geber
Member
Member # 18264

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ish Geber     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sundjata:
^It appears to be a wig as evinced from the fact that he has a different hair-style in each tomb scene and to the extent which the hair looks completely different. Afros don't hang, in image 38 his hair is long and free flowing (however, they look as though they can be locks) while in image 39 he has an afro again but this time it covers his ears and actually looks curlier. Either way, Egyptians used human hair, so whatever.

BTW, If I were you, I wouldn't respond to lioness.

There ara many types of Afro hair. The way it is nurtured, styled makes it softer or "less soft" or whatever. Depending from person to person. And traditionally it can be dependable on place/ region. That is all I am going to say.

And that person is obviously not black! Or a so-called African American.

Posts: 22245 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ish Geber
Member
Member # 18264

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ish Geber     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sundjata:
^^
quote:
BTW, If I were you, I wouldn't respond to lioness.
OR, we can always ruin the thread by blabbering over trivialities with a clearly incompetent objector.
It may come off as such, incompetent objector, but the input it is for sure of relevance.

The indication was it is either this... or that.... Which is somewhat laughable.

Posts: 22245 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ish Geber
Member
Member # 18264

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ish Geber     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sundjata:
^It appears to be a wig as evinced from the fact that he has a different hair-style in each tomb scene and to the extent which the hair looks completely different. Afros don't hang, in image 38 his hair is long and free flowing (however, they look as though they can be locks) while in image 39 he has an afro again but this time it covers his ears and actually looks curlier. Either way, Egyptians used human hair, so whatever.

BTW, If I were you, I wouldn't respond to lioness.

Are you implying he could not have had different hair styles during his lifespan? But only one particular hair style? Or do I interpret you wrongly? No offend.

And even those were wigs, it had to come from somewhere.

 -

 -


 -
 -

 -

 -

Posts: 22245 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ish Geber
Member
Member # 18264

Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Ish Geber     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Afrocentric Liars Exposed:
LOL!! Look at you doing all sorts of gymnastics to "reconcile" what contradicts your belief in Black Egypt. Clearly, you have no academic honesty for the mere fact, you are trying to force the information to conform to your nonsensical belief.

You guys are off the chain!!!

Xenophobe, I understand your obsession with ancient Egypt, but your history is at the forests and the caves of Europe! Be proud of that!
 -

Posts: 22245 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
-Just Call Me Jari-
Member
Member # 14451

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for -Just Call Me Jari-     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't think that matters at all. Not that I dismiss it being a Wig but his different hair styles could have been manipulated similar to how Africans sport and Afro one day and Braid their hair another day.

 -

 -  -


 -


quote:
Originally posted by Sundjata:
^It appears to be a wig as evinced from the fact that he has a different hair-style in each tomb scene and to the extent which the hair looks completely different. Afros don't hang, in image 38 his hair is long and free flowing (however, they look as though they can be locks) while in image 39 he has an afro again but this time it covers his ears and actually looks curlier. Either way, Egyptians used human hair, so whatever.

BTW, If I were you, I wouldn't respond to lioness.


Posts: 8809 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Sundjata
Member
Member # 13096

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Sundjata     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
^As you can see, I've considered that. I just think a wig is more plausible. Of course, this is only my opinion.

quote:
Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
Are you implying he could not have had different hair styles during his lifespan? But only one particular hair style? Or do I interpret you wrongly? No offend.

And even those were wigs, it had to come from somewhere.

What I am saying, or what I have considered is the same thing that both you and Jari have addressed after the fact, hence my entertaining that the second photo looked like locks. The said 'locks' would still require that he grew his hair out and then later cut it to reform into another Afro. Not out of the question, I just don't think using the example of modern hair styles are particularly useful, at least in every instance. There's a problem here with chronology and trends in AA hairstyles change every decade. We don't know whether or not AEs sported the exact same hair styles as modern AAs, but we do know they wore wigs.

I've already mentioned as well that the wigs were made from human hair so it wouldn't matter.


BTW, This was an opinion and not something I'm looking to voraciously defend or extensively discuss.

Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
the lioness,
Member
Member # 17353

Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for the lioness,     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 

Posts: 42988 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | EgyptSearch!

(c) 2015 EgyptSearch.com

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3