posted
^ European colonialists were of course mistaken. Since the very classification of "caucasoid" is invalid. Anybody with narrow noses and faces were considered "caucasoid" and this was not limited to Africans. Even peoples in eastern Asia and the Pacific were once labeled as "caucasoid" also!
"Claims that Caucasoid peoples once lived in eastern Africa have been shown to be wrong,.." - JO Vogel, Precolonial Africa.
Jean Hiernaux The People of Africa (1975) p.53, 54
"In sub-Saharan Africa, many anthropological characters show a wide range of population means or frequencies. In some of them, the whole world range is covered in the sub-continent. Here live the shortest and the tallest human populations, the one with the highest and the one with the lowest nose, the one with the thickest and the one with the thinnest lips in the world. In this area, the range of the average nose widths covers 92 per cent of the world range:
only a narrow range of extremely low means are absent from the African record. Means for head diameters cover about 80 per cent of the world range; 60 per cent is the corresponding value for a variable once cherished by physical anthropologists, the cephalic index, or ratio of the head width to head length expressed as a percentage....."
These studies were further backed up by genetics pointing to Africa being the origin of mankind and thus Africans possessing the greatest genetic diversity.
Non existence of "caucasoid" means non existence of "caucasoid genes".
Posts: 26243 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by rahotep101: [QB] It seems the ancient Nubians being analysed must be caucasoid-admixed, as look at the company they keep on a pooled sample:
Negroids are very far away from Egyptians.
Do these two groups look homogenous to you?
What's this all about?
Do the captors and the captives look like long-lost cousins?
I will keep short. YOUR FIRST COMMENT, is non-sense.
now- first picture and first image. there are different groups there shown,the first art work there is from nigeria,the images at the bottom left and right,are nubians and the other images hard to say.
the second image- black egyptians .
2rd picture,nubians fighting black egyptians.
3rd picture- nubian prisoners WITH BLACK EGYPTIANS.
Posts: 2688 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Perahu: Sample of Nubians taken:
Nubians
3/39 = 7.7% B-M60 - Nilotic 3/39 = 7.7% E1b1b-M215(xE1b1b1a-M78) - North East Africa 5/39 = 12.8% E1b1b1a1-V12(xE1b1b1a1b-V32) - North East Africa 1/39 = 2.6% E1b1b1a1b-V32 - North East Africa 4/39 = 10.3% F-M89(xH1-M52, I-M170, J-12f2, K-M9) - Western Asia 2/39 = 5.1% I-M170 - Western Asia 16/39 = 41.0% J-12f2(xJ2-M172) - Western Asia 1/39 = 2.6% J2-M172 - Western Asia 4/39 = 10.3% R1b1-P25 - Western Asia
Sudanese Arab
3/102 = 2.9% A3b2-M13 - Nilotic 6/102 = 5.9% E1b1b1a1-V12(xE1b1b1a1b-V32) - North East Africa 7/102 = 6.9% E1b1b1a1b-V32 - North East Africa 4/102 = 3.9% E1b1b1a3-V22 - North East Africa 10/102 = 9.8% F-M89(xH1-M52, I-M170, J-12f2, K-M9) Western Asia 4/102 = 3.9% I-M170 Western Asia 46/102 = 45.1% J-12f2(xJ2-M172) Western Asia 2/102 = 2.0% J2-M172 - Western Asia 3/102 = 2.9% K-M9(xL-M11, O-M175, P-M74) - Western Asia 1/102 = 1.0% R1-M173(xR1b1-P25) - Western Asia 16/102 = 15.7% R1b1-P25 - Western Asia
This is how you cite a source, swine. Considering that the Egyptian Arab population samples are gathered from the Northern-most Delta region, this is expected.
quote:J is the most common group of the Omani collection (frequency 47.9%), followed in succession by E (23.1%), R (10.7%), and K2 (8.3%). In Egypt, the order of the polymorphic groups is slightly different: E (39.5%), J (32.0%), G (8.8%), K2 (8.2%), and R (7.5%). Noteworthy is the asymmetrical representation of groups A, B, and E in the sub-Saharan versus the Afro-Asiatic samples (98.8% vs. 32.1%, respectively).
Still primarily African in the Delta. Where are Bejas and Nubians referred?
quote:Originally posted by Bob_01:
quote:Originally posted by White Nord: In North Africa, J1 first entered Ethiopia with the spread of Semitic speakers Eritrea (11%), Ethiopia (9%), Ethiopia-Amhara (33.3%). It spread later to North Africa in historic times (as identified by the motif YCAIIa22-YCAIIb22; Algerians 35.0%, Tunisians 31%), where it became something like a marker of the Arab expansion in the early medieval period. J1 also seems to be found with high frequency in the northern parts of Sudan (Arabs 45%, Nubians 41%, Copts 39%, Beja 36%), and present with lower frequency in the region of Darfur (Masalit 6%, Fur 6%). Haplogroup J1 may be found in as many as 20% of Egyptian males, with the frequency of this haplogroup tending to be comparatively high in the south of the country.
Hisham Y. Hassan et al., "Y-Chromosome Variation Among Sudanese: Restricted Gene Flow, Concordance With Language, Geography, and History," American Journal of Physical Anthropology (2008). J-12f2(xJ2-M172) in 46/102 Sudanese Arabs of the Gaalien, Meseria, and Arakien tribes, 16/39 Nubians, 13/33 Copts, 15/42 Beja, 2/32 Masalit, and 2/32 Fur.
LOL There you go DUMB ****! Beja and Nubians heavily mixed with Non African DNA, yet you all bitch and moan about Modern Egyptians being "mixed" Dumb FUCKS!
You sound insane. As I said before, modern Egyptians have extensive native extraction. That is especially the case outside of the Delta. This admixture you're presenting fails to demonstrate anything.
Ancient Egyptians were indigenous, tropically adapted, Black Africans. The population within East and North Africa were originally and are still tropically adapted, black Africans. There has been extensive gene-flow between that population and Asians.
However J has nothing to do with Caucasia or white people. We're not going to allow that foolish assumption to run. I don't even think European-specific haplogroups exist since cold adaptation and pale skin represent very recent adaptation.
Calm down idiot.
quote:Originally posted by Bob_01:
quote:Originally posted by White Nord: LOL But what the **** does that have to do with these figures dumb ****!
"Levant versus the Horn" Nubians 41%, Bejas 36% J1 frequency!
Inferior swine, you can't even cite sources properly. What the hell are you quoting? J frequency brought into those regions were earlier and those Asians resembled African populations.
Haplogroup J1 Possible time of origin 15,000 to 24,000 BP
Possible place of origin, Arabian Plate.
In northern sudan,its seems that up to only 41% of the nubians have some (J-12f2(xJ2-M172) while,most do not meaning meaning the rest of the nubians in northern sudan have only african dna.
up to 45% of arabs in northern sudan have some (J-12f2(xJ2-M172),the rest do not.
nubians in chad,kenya uganda etc and the rest of sudan have african dna period.
so if we want to go there,most black arabs and most nubians in sudan do not have any arab admixture or any outside admixture from any white arab or any other white,just to make it clear to you.
posted
These guys need to read this over and over again,SO THEY COULD GET some of these facts in there thick heads.
quote:Originally posted by kenndo:
"An examination of the distance hierarchies reveals the Badarian series to be more similar to the Teita in both analyses and always more similar to all of the African series than to the Norse and Berg groups (see Tables 3A & 3B and Figure 2). Essentially equal similarity is found with the Zalavar and Dogon series in the 11-variable analysis and with these and the Bushman in the one using 15 variables. The Badarian series clusters with the tropical African groups no matter which algorithm is employed (see Figures 3 and 4).. In none of them did the Badarian sample affiliate with the European series."(S.O.Y. Keita. Early Nile Valley Farmers from El-Badari: Aboriginals or "European" Agro-Nostratic Immigrants? Craniometric Affinities Considered With Other Data. Journal of Black Studies, Vol. 36 No. 2, pp. 191-208 (2005)
"Some have argued that various early Egyptians like the Badarians probably migrated northward from Nubia, while others see a wide-ranging movement of peoples across the breadth of the Sahara before the onset of desiccation. Whatever may be the origins of any particular people or civilization, however, it seems reasonably certain that the predynastic communities of the Nile valley were essentially indigenous in culture, drawing little inspiration from sources outside the continent during the several centuries directly preceding the onset of historical times..." (Robert July, Pre-Colonial Africa, 1975, p. 60-61)
"overall population continuity over the Predynastic and early Dynastic, and high levels of genetic heterogeneity, thereby suggesting that state formation occurred as a mainly indigenous process." (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2007). "Population continuity or population change: Formation of the ancient Egyptian state". American Journal of Physical Anthropology 132 (4): 501-509)
German Institute for Archaeology -excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. In several of the noble specimens: "The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin." (Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues", Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13)
"Ancient Egypt belongs to a language group known as 'Afro-Asiatic' (formerly called Hamito-Semitic) and its closest relatives are other north-east African languages from Somalia to Chad. Egypt's cultural features, both material and ideological and particularly in the earliest phases, show clear connections with that same broad area. In sum, ancient Egypt was an African culture, developed by African peoples, who had wide ranging contacts in north Africa and western Asia." (Morkot, Robert (2005) The Egyptians: An Introduction. Routledge. p. 10)
"There is no archaeological, linguistic, or historical data which indicate a European or Asiatic invasion of, or migration to, the Nile Valley during First Dynasty times. Previous concepts about the origin of the First Dynasty Egyptians as being somehow external to the Nile Valley or less native are not supported by archaeology... In summary, the Abydos First Dynasty royal tomb contents reveal a notable craniometric heterogeneity. Southerners predominate. (Kieta, S. (1992) Further Studies of Crania From Ancient Northern Africa: An Analysis of Crania From First Dynasty Egyptian Tombs, Using Multiple Discriminant Functions. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 87:245-254)"
"The peoples of Egypt, the Sudan, and much of East African Ethiopia and Somalia are now generally regarded as a Nilotic continuity, with widely ranging physical features (complexions light to dark, various hair and craniofacial types) but with powerful common cultural traits, including cattle pastoralist traditions." (Frank Yurco, "An Egyptological Review," 1996 -in Mary R. Lefkowitz and Guy MacLean Rogers, Black Athena Revisited, 1996, The University of North Carolina Press, p. 62-100)
"..sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline variation along the Nile valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into southern Palestine. The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans." (Barry Kemp, "Ancient Egypt Anatomy of a Civilisation. (2005) Routledge. p. 52-60)
"When the unlikely relationships [Indian matches] and eliminated, the Egyptian series are more similar overall to other African series than to European or Near Eastern (Byzantine or Palestinian) series." (Keita 1993)
HERE IS THE WORK OF THE ANTHROPOLOGIST SO STRONGLY RECOMMENDED BY LEFKOWITZ, NANCY LOVELL:
Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt and Ancient Egypt: Anatomy of a Civilization
"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa.. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas." (Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York: Routledge, 1999) pp 328-332)
and
"must be placed in the context of hypotheses informed by archaeological, linguistic, geographic and other data. In such contexts, the physical anthropological evidence indicates that early Nile Valley populations can be identified as part of an African lineage, but exhibiting local variation. This variation represents the short and long term effects of evolutionary forces, such as gene flow, genetic drift, and natural selection, influenced by culture and geography." ("Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York: Routledge, 1999). pp 328-332)
Limb proportion studies Quotes: "The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the “super-Negroid” body plan described by Robins (1983).. This pattern is supported by Figure 7 (a plot of population mean femoral and tibial lengths; data from Ruff, 1994), which indicates that the Egyptians generally have tropical body plans. Of the Egyptian samples, only the Badarian and Early Dynastic period populations have shorter tibiae than predicted from femoral length. Despite these differences, all samples lie relatively clustered together as compared to the other populations." (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2003). "Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions". AJPA 121 (3): 219-229.
and S. O. Y. Keita, "Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships," History in Africa 20 (1993) 129-54
"Overall, when the Egyptian crania are evaluated in a Near Eastern (Lachish) versus African (Kerma, Kebel Moya, Ashanti) context) the affinity is with the Africans. The Sudan and Palestine are the most appropriate comparative regions which would have 'donated' people, along with the Sahara and Maghreb. Archaeology validates looking to these regions for population flow (see Hassan 1988)... Egyptian groups showed less overall affinity to Palestinian and Byzantine remains than to other African series, especially Sudanese." (Keita 1993)
"When the unlikely relationships [Indian matches] and eliminated, the Egyptian series are more similar overall to other African series than to European or Near Eastern (Byzantine or Palestinian) series." (Keita 1993)
"Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant."(Egypt and Sub-Saharan Africa: Their Interaction. Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa, by Joseph O. Vogel, AltaMira Press, Walnut Creek, California (1997), pp. 465-472 )
Peoples of the Sahara were an important part of the foundations of ancient Egypt and pioneered in several features that were to appear in Egypt, including religion, cattle cults, stone construction and astronomy etc. Some mainstream scientists consider the Saharans more organized on some counts than the early Egyptians. Also the Saharan culture shares clear links with other African peoples. Of note again is the southern direction of this cultural pioneering and growth, not the north, the Middle East, or the Mediterranean.
UNESCO - General History of Africa: Volume II This lengthy period includes the civilization of Ancient Egypt, the history of Nubia, Ethiopia, North Africa and the Sahara, as well as of the other regions ...
quote:Originally posted by kenndo: These guys need to read this over and over again,SO THEY COULD GET some of these facts in there thick heads.
quote:Originally posted by kenndo:
"An examination of the distance hierarchies reveals the Badarian series to be more similar to the Teita in both analyses and always more similar to all of the African series than to the Norse and Berg groups (see Tables 3A & 3B and Figure 2). Essentially equal similarity is found with the Zalavar and Dogon series in the 11-variable analysis and with these and the Bushman in the one using 15 variables. The Badarian series clusters with the tropical African groups no matter which algorithm is employed (see Figures 3 and 4).. In none of them did the Badarian sample affiliate with the European series."(S.O.Y. Keita. Early Nile Valley Farmers from El-Badari: Aboriginals or "European" Agro-Nostratic Immigrants? Craniometric Affinities Considered With Other Data. Journal of Black Studies, Vol. 36 No. 2, pp. 191-208 (2005)
"Some have argued that various early Egyptians like the Badarians probably migrated northward from Nubia, while others see a wide-ranging movement of peoples across the breadth of the Sahara before the onset of desiccation. Whatever may be the origins of any particular people or civilization, however, it seems reasonably certain that the predynastic communities of the Nile valley were essentially indigenous in culture, drawing little inspiration from sources outside the continent during the several centuries directly preceding the onset of historical times..." (Robert July, Pre-Colonial Africa, 1975, p. 60-61)
"overall population continuity over the Predynastic and early Dynastic, and high levels of genetic heterogeneity, thereby suggesting that state formation occurred as a mainly indigenous process." (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2007). "Population continuity or population change: Formation of the ancient Egyptian state". American Journal of Physical Anthropology 132 (4): 501-509)
German Institute for Archaeology -excavation of the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt. In several of the noble specimens: "The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin." (Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues", Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, 80(1): 7_/13)
"Ancient Egypt belongs to a language group known as 'Afro-Asiatic' (formerly called Hamito-Semitic) and its closest relatives are other north-east African languages from Somalia to Chad. Egypt's cultural features, both material and ideological and particularly in the earliest phases, show clear connections with that same broad area. In sum, ancient Egypt was an African culture, developed by African peoples, who had wide ranging contacts in north Africa and western Asia." (Morkot, Robert (2005) The Egyptians: An Introduction. Routledge. p. 10)
"There is no archaeological, linguistic, or historical data which indicate a European or Asiatic invasion of, or migration to, the Nile Valley during First Dynasty times. Previous concepts about the origin of the First Dynasty Egyptians as being somehow external to the Nile Valley or less native are not supported by archaeology... In summary, the Abydos First Dynasty royal tomb contents reveal a notable craniometric heterogeneity. Southerners predominate. (Kieta, S. (1992) Further Studies of Crania From Ancient Northern Africa: An Analysis of Crania From First Dynasty Egyptian Tombs, Using Multiple Discriminant Functions. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 87:245-254)"
"The peoples of Egypt, the Sudan, and much of East African Ethiopia and Somalia are now generally regarded as a Nilotic continuity, with widely ranging physical features (complexions light to dark, various hair and craniofacial types) but with powerful common cultural traits, including cattle pastoralist traditions." (Frank Yurco, "An Egyptological Review," 1996 -in Mary R. Lefkowitz and Guy MacLean Rogers, Black Athena Revisited, 1996, The University of North Carolina Press, p. 62-100)
"..sample populations available from northern Egypt from before the 1st Dynasty (Merimda, Maadi and Wadi Digla) turn out to be significantly different from sample populations from early Palestine and Byblos, suggesting a lack of common ancestors over a long time. If there was a south-north cline variation along the Nile valley it did not, from this limited evidence, continue smoothly on into southern Palestine. The limb-length proportions of males from the Egyptian sites group them with Africans rather than with Europeans." (Barry Kemp, "Ancient Egypt Anatomy of a Civilisation. (2005) Routledge. p. 52-60)
"When the unlikely relationships [Indian matches] and eliminated, the Egyptian series are more similar overall to other African series than to European or Near Eastern (Byzantine or Palestinian) series." (Keita 1993)
HERE IS THE WORK OF THE ANTHROPOLOGIST SO STRONGLY RECOMMENDED BY LEFKOWITZ, NANCY LOVELL:
Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt and Ancient Egypt: Anatomy of a Civilization
"There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa.. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas." (Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York: Routledge, 1999) pp 328-332)
and
"must be placed in the context of hypotheses informed by archaeological, linguistic, geographic and other data. In such contexts, the physical anthropological evidence indicates that early Nile Valley populations can be identified as part of an African lineage, but exhibiting local variation. This variation represents the short and long term effects of evolutionary forces, such as gene flow, genetic drift, and natural selection, influenced by culture and geography." ("Nancy C. Lovell, " Egyptians, physical anthropology of," in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York: Routledge, 1999). pp 328-332)
Limb proportion studies Quotes: "The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the “super-Negroid” body plan described by Robins (1983).. This pattern is supported by Figure 7 (a plot of population mean femoral and tibial lengths; data from Ruff, 1994), which indicates that the Egyptians generally have tropical body plans. Of the Egyptian samples, only the Badarian and Early Dynastic period populations have shorter tibiae than predicted from femoral length. Despite these differences, all samples lie relatively clustered together as compared to the other populations." (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2003). "Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions". AJPA 121 (3): 219-229.
and S. O. Y. Keita, "Studies and Comments on Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships," History in Africa 20 (1993) 129-54
"Overall, when the Egyptian crania are evaluated in a Near Eastern (Lachish) versus African (Kerma, Kebel Moya, Ashanti) context) the affinity is with the Africans. The Sudan and Palestine are the most appropriate comparative regions which would have 'donated' people, along with the Sahara and Maghreb. Archaeology validates looking to these regions for population flow (see Hassan 1988)... Egyptian groups showed less overall affinity to Palestinian and Byzantine remains than to other African series, especially Sudanese." (Keita 1993)
"When the unlikely relationships [Indian matches] and eliminated, the Egyptian series are more similar overall to other African series than to European or Near Eastern (Byzantine or Palestinian) series." (Keita 1993)
"Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant."(Egypt and Sub-Saharan Africa: Their Interaction. Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa, by Joseph O. Vogel, AltaMira Press, Walnut Creek, California (1997), pp. 465-472 )
Peoples of the Sahara were an important part of the foundations of ancient Egypt and pioneered in several features that were to appear in Egypt, including religion, cattle cults, stone construction and astronomy etc. Some mainstream scientists consider the Saharans more organized on some counts than the early Egyptians. Also the Saharan culture shares clear links with other African peoples. Of note again is the southern direction of this cultural pioneering and growth, not the north, the Middle East, or the Mediterranean.
UNESCO - General History of Africa: Volume II This lengthy period includes the civilization of Ancient Egypt, the history of Nubia, Ethiopia, North Africa and the Sahara, as well as of the other regions ...
Respectfully, they will not do so...give thanks for posting the info for those who don't know it and as a review for those who do...however, you're just beating your head against the wall with regards to certain ones...
You can lead a horse to water but if it's not thirsty, it nah go drink....
Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
edit- for the first reply i posted, it was suppose to say 2nd image.
TruthAndRights
QUOTE- Respectfully, they will not do so...give thanks for posting the info for those who don't know it and as a review for those who do...however, you're just beating your head against the wall with regards to certain ones...
Yeah,you are right,there justs some folks out there that will believe our sun is blue. Posts: 2688 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
^ Correct. And that is exactly why there is no use limiting your studies of ancient Nile Valley cultures to 'Nubia' only! Because all studies show Egyptians to be closely related to Nubians, the Euronuts have long began a campaign to white-wash them as well! Hell, there are Euronuts who are even trying to white-wash Africans as far south as Uganda and Tanzania! LOLPosts: 26243 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic