posted
I have been reading around this forum and it got me interested in African anthropology. I was wondering if anyone could tell me how many sub-races there are in Africa?
I know that the Bushmen, Somali, Berber, Pygmies are different from the blacks, but are there any more races? Do the blacks differ?
Thank you in advance.
Posts: 5 | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged |
posted
How many sub-races are there in Europe? I know that Greeks, Italians, and Spanish are different from whites, but are there anymore races in Europe?
Posts: 98 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Feb 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
There are no races, but you have greatest variation due to the fact that modern humans spent ~100,000years in Africa before migrating out. If we used "race", especially in regards to Africa, you would have hundreds of so-called races in Africa alone due to aforementioned variation, which makes zero sense.
BTW, What do you mean by "different from the blacks"? All the groups you listed are blacks.
-------------------- L Writes: Posts: 1502 | From: Dies Irae | Registered: Oct 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Annie87: I have been reading around this forum and it got me interested in African anthropology. I was wondering if anyone could tell me how many sub-races there are in Africa?
There is a scientific consensus that "race" is a misleading concept, and nobody can identify it without discrepancies.
quote:Originally posted by Annie87: I know that the Bushmen, Somali, Berber, Pygmies are different from the blacks, but are there any more races?
Where did you read that these populations you mentioned were different from "the blacks" and who are "the blacks"?
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
I was not sure how to call the common Sub-Saharan African look so I went with ''blacks'' for lack of a better word. Excuse my ignorance.
The other people I mentioned look quite different from the main black group. Maybe ancient sub-races? The Bushmen look like Asians with afro-textured hair and bronze skin, the Somali look like Europeans dipped in chocolate, the Pygmies look like miniature blacks with rounder features, the Berbers look somewhat like Middle Easterners.
Are the people in Madagascar another sub-race? Did the Asian race originate in Madagascar? They remind me of Asians
Posts: 5 | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Annie87: I was not sure how to call the common Sub-Saharan African look so I went with ''blacks'' for lack of a better word. Excuse my ignorance.
The other people I mentioned look quite different from the main black group. Maybe ancient sub-races? The Bushmen look like Asians with afro-textured hair and bronze skin, the Somali look like Europeans dipped in chocolate, the Pygmies look like miniature blacks with rounder features, the Berbers look somewhat like Middle Easterners.
Are the people in a Madagascar another sub-race? Did the Asian race originate in Madagascar? They remind me of Asians
^You ignore the above post by AGUEYBANA, why? You persist in referring for example to "Asians" as a single "race" without even defining what "race" is even after it was demonstrated to you that the concept its self is illogical.
Was this hard for you to understand or were you simply distracted and didn't notice what he'd posted?Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Annie you have to realize there are certain words that are considered inappropriate on this forum. I will list them and inform you of the replacement words after the equal sign so you can proceed.
race = 1)phenotype or 2) a population
Negroid = 1) black or 2) biologically African
Caucasian = white
Just use the terms to the right of the equals sign and there will be no problems.
Posts: 42930 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
AGUEYBANA your post is very technical. I am confused, so there are no sub-races?
I know that all humans are of the same race/species (some even argue that Neanderthal man was the same race as us), but how does that refute the existence of sub-races? Aren't people from certain geographical locations more similar to each other than people from distant places? Thanks for taking the time.
Posts: 5 | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Annie87: AGUEYBANA your post is very technical. I am confused, so there are no genetic sub-races?
I know that all humans are of the same race/species (some even argue that Neantherthal man was the same race as us), but how does that refute the existence of sub-races? Aren't people from certain geographical locations more similar to each other than people from distant places? Thanks for taking the time.
Annie, the people here do not use the word "race" in any form including "sub-race" You need to learn this or they will descend on you like hyenas
lioness productions
quote:Originally posted by Annie87: the Somali look like Europeans dipped in chocolate,
posted
Sorry for stealing your question AGUEYBANA:
quote:Originally posted by Annie87: AGUEYBANA your post is very technical. I am confused, so there are no sub-races?
I know that all humans are of the same race/species (some even argue that Neanderthal man was the same race as us), but how does that refute the existence of sub-races? Aren't people from certain geographical locations more similar to each other than people from distant places? Thanks for taking the time. [/qb]
^For the record, if you're sincerely here to learn, then pay no attention to lioness.
* What is important here is that none of the terms she describes above or that you describe in the OP, has any biological validity with respect to race.
* Those populations listed are all closely related to each other and therefore cannot be partitioned into separate "races" or "sub-races" since they all share common descent (common origin) that is much too recent (as do all humans).
* Your idea of "sub-race" is based on looks and not genetics. The idea of a "race" that can be further divided into discrete sub-races would mean that these populations have to be isolated for a very long time to form an isolated genetic cluster, which creates a different breeding group (like different kinds of dogs-although the process is different and takes longer). But genetically (and in many cases, even phenotypically), these populations all overlap each other.
* People look different because they live in different environments.
* Africa has many different environments and since humans have been in Africa for a very long time, they had more time to adapt to different environments.
* That is why you see different looks, but they are all still related so one cannot refer to them with respect to "race" or "sub-races". You can refer to them as different "populations".
* The term "Black" cannot be justified as a divisive term because it describes dark skin only and all of the populations listed have dark skins so one can usefully call all of these populations "Black" in a social sense, but at the end of the day that doesn't fully describe what they all are either, which is simply African PEOPLE.
Hope that helped. Posts: 4021 | From: Bay Area, CA | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
LOL, Annie is just another troller pretending to ask simple questions.
And by the way "Bushman" is not a proper anthropological term. And even so, the Kalahari is a desert with very little bush.
And talk of "sub-Saharan" is just silly Eurocentric talk.
And about the seemingly naive question about "sub-races of Africa" know that there are a couple of well-know texts on "the races of Europe"--with this same title "The Races of Europe" by Ripley and Coon. Let's hear what you think about those 2 texts.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
What you have to understand Annie is that Africans are not a Race sub-race etc. Africans are people adapted to different climates, hence the reason for different "Looks"
The Khoisan(Bushman) Are some of the oldest Africans in Africa and they are adapted to a semi-tropical environment. Somalis Are Africans like Ethiopians who have Narrow Features not because of race mixing or admixture, but because they are Adapted to a Hot Dry Climate. Berber is a Language group and NOT a RACE....What we can say about Berbers is that they are multi-ethnic with some being "Black" and some being "White" Ancient Berbers were Black like other Africans in the south and there is still Black Berbers like the Tuareg, Harratin, Jerba etc.
What we as this forum can tell you if you READ the threads is that RACE does NOT EXIST. Thats why people like Fulani and Aborignies in Australia, Indians in India, Melenesians in Fiji etc, Look Black AND African, but they as can be confirmed from Genetic, are the Farthest from Africans....Europeans are closer to Africans then a Aborigne or a Fijian even though these people look African.
Europeans share genetically with Africans and are closer to Africans then any Asian race regardless of colour...This has to do with the Neolithic revolution that brought Africans into Europe and blended with the people already in Europe. As some posters can confirm, Greeks for Example have an African Lineage like e1b1b at 25%.
Genetics refutes race and shows that people who were once thought to be distant from eachother based on colour, are proven to have very close connections.
Remember this Annie, in ONE African village in Africa, there is more diversity in that Village, then majority of the world. All people were a subset of Africans East Africans and theu inherited a genes from these Africans....Hence the reason why people try and claim Horners like Ethiopians, Somalis, Eritreans etc are mixed because some people Hate the fact they are linked to Africans.
Hate rears its ugly head in every debate about race and this is the main reason why people will deny the undeniable and will promote things like Africans with narrow features are all mixed.
Hope this helps.
Peace
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Khufu: How many sub-races are there in Europe? I know that Greeks, Italians, and Spanish are different from whites, but are there anymore races in Europe?
Wait a minute According to Egyptsearch theory Greeks, Italians, Spanish, Hebrews and Olmecs are sub-races of Africans not Europeans. The true Caucasoid originate from Russia and have separate origins.
Posts: 42930 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Annie87: I was not sure how to call the common Sub-Saharan African look so I went with ''blacks'' for lack of a better word. Excuse my ignorance.
The other people I mentioned look quite different from the main black group. Maybe ancient sub-races? The Bushmen look like Asians with afro-textured hair and bronze skin, the Somali look like Europeans dipped in chocolate, the Pygmies look like miniature blacks with rounder features, the Berbers look somewhat like Middle Easterners.
Are the people in Madagascar another sub-race? Did the Asian race originate in Madagascar? They remind me of Asians
When did Somalia, Southern Africa, and the various places "Berbers" live get up and leave sub-saharan Africa? I wasn't aware those places had legs. What makes one "sub-saharan look" more "main" than the other? Interesting.
Posts: 455 | From: Tharsis Montes | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
posted
Annie, what you call the "main black group" would be more accurately described as Broad Africans due to their broader facial features---at least that's how I think of them. They are adapted to a wetter, more humid climate than the narrow-featured Africans you say "look like Europeans dipped in chocolate" (I call those Elongated Africans). In addition there are Africans whose facial features are somewhere in the middle such as many of the Maasai and Tutsi. Despite their physical and genetic differences, all of these populations possess dark skin and other tropical adaptations and therefore no single one of them can be said to be more or less "black" than the others.
Posts: 7080 | From: Fallbrook, CA | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, scientifically speaking, there are no races but if you wish to divvy them up one of the most practical senses would be in terms of language.
For instance, you pit SSA ("sub-Saharan Africa") against the Berber speakers, Somalians, and Bushman, when the Bushman all live quite far South of the Sahara, Somalia is on the equator (South of the Sahara as well .. though it is quite dry there), and the Berber language is spoken in the Sahel (a region bordering the Sahara).
Look up major language branches such as Niger-Kordofanian speakers vs Afro-Asiatic.
Most people tend to pick out large distinct groups like Bantu and Arabic speakers. Generally most people's first attempt at a scientific dichotomy involves dividing Khoisan (speakers of Khoikhoi and San click languages) from [geographic based terms:] West Africans from a combined North & East Africa. These lines have major blurs (partially due to mixture though).
You're better off just going with what most Westerners in the real world do which is pick culturally: the Muslim or Muslim Arab from the rest. And "bushman" aka hunter-gatherers from the rest.
quote:Originally posted by Annie87: I was not sure how to call the common Sub-Saharan African look so I went with ''blacks'' for lack of a better word. Excuse my ignorance.
The other people I mentioned look quite different from the main black group. Maybe ancient sub-races? The Bushmen look like Asians with afro-textured hair and bronze skin, the Somali look like Europeans dipped in chocolate, the Pygmies look like miniature blacks with rounder features, the Berbers look somewhat like Middle Easterners.
Are the people in Madagascar another sub-race? Did the Asian race originate in Madagascar? They remind me of Asians
Annie dear - the Somali are not Europeans dipped in chocolate. Their skin looks like that because it is loaded with Melanin, a substance the body produces to protect itself against the Suns Ultra Violet (UV) rays.
Besides, they are not even the best example of European people who look like they were dipped in chocolate.
The Dravidians of India are:
.
But funny thing, there is a disease called Albinism, which will remove the chocolate covering, and just look at what you get! Voilà - Europeans! .
posted
So there are no sub-races, but could we say there are ancient population types within Africa?
How come all the ancient types only live on the far edges of the continent? The Bushmen are cornered in the far South, the Somali are in the far East, the Berbers in the far North, the Pygmies remain in a few jungle refugiums.
Why is the common black type so ubiquitous in Africa? Did they kill off these ancient types? Why do the unique African types have so low populations?
Posts: 5 | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by KING: Thats why people like Fulani and Aborignies in Australia, Indians in India, Melenesians in Fiji etc, Look Black AND African, but they as can be confirmed from Genetic, are the Farthest from Africans....Europeans are closer to Africans then a Aborigne or a Fijian even though these people look African.
Europeans share genetically with Africans and are closer to Africans then any Asian race regardless of colour...This has to do with the Neolithic revolution that brought Africans into Europe and blended with the people already in Europe. As some posters can confirm, Greeks for Example have an African Lineage like e1b1b at 25%.
Genetics refutes race and shows that people who were once thought to be distant from eachother based on colour, are proven to have very close connections.
Remember this Annie, in ONE African village in Africa, there is more diversity in that Village, then majority of the world. All people were a subset of Africans East Africans and theu inherited a genes from these Africans....Hence the reason why people try and claim Horners like Ethiopians, Somalis, Eritreans etc are mixed because some people Hate the fact they are linked to Africans.
Hate rears its ugly head in every debate about race and this is the main reason why people will deny the undeniable and will promote things like Africans with narrow features are all mixed.
Hope this helps.
Peace
Respectfully, last I knew the Fulani are an African (Black) people located in Mama Africa.....or did I miss something Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
quote:BTW, What do you mean by "different from the blacks"? All the groups you listed are blacks.
quote: How many sub-races are there in Europe? I know that Greeks, Italians, and Spanish are different from whites, but are there anymore races in Europe?
quote:Originally posted by The Gaul: When did Somalia, Southern Africa, and the various places "Berbers" live get up and leave sub-saharan Africa? I wasn't aware those places had legs. What makes one "sub-saharan look" more "main" than the other? Interesting.
lol
@ Lioness- stop confusing the gyal with your fuckery.....
oh lawd, here we go with that Europeans aka 'white' people albino ish again.... SMH....
Posts: 3446 | From: U.S. by way of JA by way of Africa | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Did the East-Asian type spawn from the Bushmen or Malagasy? Did the European type spawn from the Somali? Did the Middle Eastern type spawn from the Berber?
I ask because they say all humans came from Africa.
Posts: 5 | Registered: May 2011
| IP: Logged |
posted
Middle Eastern and Europeans spawn from a Central Asian -indigenous mix of peoples plus the Mediterranean region is just mixed.
About the "Bushman - East Asian type" thing. Much of the traits we still find in Africa let alone anywhere else have been refined from what diversity existed in far prehistoric times. There are traits still extant in non-Africans from that era that Africans don't even have, and there are ofcourse traits shared by populations on both sides.
And who's really to say it's not a case of convergent evolution to a windy environment? I don't think East Asians are the only people other than some South Africans to have epicanthic eye folds. A major difference between the two (now scientifically proven ) is that the more East in Asia you go the more likely you all are to look more alike.
Between Europe and East Asia, Western white people all look less a like but between all of Asia / Eurasia [infact the rest of the world] and Africa, Africa maintains the highest phenetic diversity even when mixed areas like North Africa are taken out.
Extremely black people predominate in Africa likely because it is a sunny place. There are plenty in Ethiopia far more related to Berber and Somalis than to Nigerians that look like Nigerians. Also, San lineages were once not uncommon in places as far North as Egypt (and have even been found to have likely entered Spain in ancient times) but now this is not so. You may want to look up the Bantu migrations.
Posts: 5555 | From: Tha 5th Dimension. | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Annie87: AGUEYBANA your post is very technical. I am confused, so there are no sub-races?
It's pretty simple, since there is no clear cut bio-anthropological definition of race in the first place, there can be no sub-races.
quote:Originally posted by Annie87: I know that all humans are of the same race/species
Yes.
quote:Originally posted by Annie87: (some even argue that Neanderthal man was the same race as us),
This is false, Neanderthals have long been shown to have separate ancestors than that of anatomically modern humans (us)
quote:Originally posted by Annie87: but how does that refute the existence of sub-races?
Because there is no scientific consensus on what race even is, people can define it anyway they want, but when it comes down to scrutinizing each and every description, they all have many discrepancies and can be completely misleading when discussing bio-anthropology.
quote:Originally posted by Annie87: Aren't people from certain geographical locations more similar to each other than people from distant places? Thanks for taking the time.
Depends on what you're comparing.
Some are, some aren't.
Take note of the following from the thread I linked to for you to read, perhaps you didn't.
quote:
Will genetic anthropology establish scientific criteria for race or ethnicity?
DNA studies do not indicate that separate classifiable subspecies (races) exist within modern humans. While different genes for physical traits such as skin and hair color can be identified between individuals, no consistent patterns of genes across the human genome exist to distinguish one race from another. There also is no genetic basis for divisions of human ethnicity. People who have lived in the same geographic region for many generations may have some alleles in common, but no allele will be found in all members of one population and in no members of any other. Indeed, it has been proven that there is more genetic variation within races than exists between them.
^^The highlighted part above answers your question,
In case you don't understand for example...
There are R haplogroup carrying Africans who genetically would cluster paternally with R carrying Europeans before clustering with I hg carrying Europeans.
There are E carrying Africans who would cluster paternally with E carrying Europeans before clustering with B carrying Africans etc...
Posts: 6572 | From: N.Y.C....Capital of the World | Registered: Jun 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
LOL @ Lyingass squirming and distorting her way out of the label 'black'. She knows what the term is and to what peoples it applies to.
Posts: 26252 | From: Atlanta, Georgia, USA | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
And you are retardid this thread is absolutely stoopid ur all nonvoid and I am becoming annoid time avoid posting to a retoid .
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged |
A study needs to be done on what drives the above behavior. Most times it seems to come even unprovoked. Perhaps it is just part of "Re-toid" culture to which this person must belong?
Posts: 455 | From: Tharsis Montes | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic