quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: In your own words what region were Europe's first hunter gatherer inhabitants in before they were in Europe?
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: As I have posted many times before. Via Siberia into Nortern Europe and then via the Crescent (Caucasus) into East Europe! Next month you'll probably ask me the same all over.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
Interesting thanks. So not only are the ancestors of modern Europeans Asians the ancestors of the earliest first Europeans were also Asian,
in particular related to Siberians in the extreme North East of Asian, I know thre were some very old remains found in that region, 24 Kya and 45kya (Ust'-Ishim) had some threads on it
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
No the ancestors of the earliest Europeans were Africans, they have been absorbed by the new incoming populations from Asia. Thus they carry some of their genetic markers. But the oldest new incoming immigrants came from the North.
So in what region were the earliest Europeans in before they became Europeans? What region were they in before they entered an uninhabited Europe? [/QB]
I have put those places in BOLD letters. SMH
See, I know you're aren't that bright, but this beats all.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: In your own words what region were Europe's first hunter gatherer inhabitants in before they were in Europe?
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: As I have posted many times before. Via Siberia into Nortern Europe and then via the Crescent (Caucasus) into East Europe! Next month you'll probably ask me the same all over.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
Interesting thanks. So not only are the ancestors of modern Europeans Asians the ancestors of the earliest first Europeans were also Asian,
in particular related to Siberians in the extreme North East of Asian, I know thre were some very old remains found in that region, 24 Kya and 45kya (Ust'-Ishim) had some threads on it [/qb]
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
No the ancestors of the earliest Europeans were Africans, they have been absorbed by the new incoming populations from Asia. Thus they carry some of their genetic markers. But the oldest new incoming immigrants came from the North.
So in what region were the earliest Europeans in before they became Europeans? What region were they in before they entered an uninhabited Europe?
I have put those places in BOLD letters. SMH
Ok so you are saying that the ancestors of the earliest Europeans were Africans in Siberia, right? You didn't make that clear
So at this time did Siberian people who were not African exist?
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Troll Patrol exactly how does that prove White people come from Asia??? The Saami are NOT White & are NOT European even though they want to be accepted as indigenous Europeans, everyone knows they are Asian invaders & used to look just like the people in Siberia & Native Americans. I want the proof that Whites came from Asia. Where are the remains, where are the depictions (rock paintings,figurines,etc), where are the artifacts proving they were there & that they were White people. Still waiting. Last time I asked you that you said that they were so inferior that they left no trace of themselves.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by CelticWarrioress: Troll Patrol exactly how does that prove White people come from Asia??? The Saami are NOT White & are NOT European even though they want to be accepted as indigenous Europeans, everyone knows they are Asian invaders & used to look just like the people in Siberia & Native Americans. I want the proof that Whites came from Asia. Where are the remains, where are the depictions (rock paintings,figurines,etc), where are the artifacts proving they were there & that they were White people. Still waiting. Last time I asked you that you said that they were so inferior that they left no trace of themselves.
So you believe that humans beings originated in in separate places independantly ? About how many such locations are there?
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Yes Lioness I believe in the Multiregional theory. Blacks evolved in Africa, Whites evolved in Europe, Asians including Native Americans evolved in Asia.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by CelticWarrioress: Yes Lioness I believe in the Multiregional theory. Blacks evolved in Africa, Whites evolved in Europe, Asians including Native Americans evolved in Asia.
Is the reason you believe in it becasue you like it better?
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by CelticWarrioress: Yes Lioness I believe in the Multiregional theory. Blacks evolved in Africa, Whites evolved in Europe, Asians including Native Americans evolved in Asia.
Is the reason you believe in it becasue you like it better?
quote:Originally posted by CelticWarrioress: Nope Lioness its the only one I've found that just makes sense.
Really Doxie, it is so unbecoming when you lie like that.
Why even the White Supremacist at Stormfront disavow your nonsense.
Now be a good girl, wash your mouth out with soap, and say you're sorry.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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Mike you're an idiot, most of the people on Stormfront believe in the multi- regional theory as well. LOL, Mike these same people also claim the AEs were White, that Whites were the original people of India, the ME, North Africa, Japan, North America ROTFLMBO.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by CelticWarrioress: Troll Patrol exactly how does that prove White people come from Asia??? The Saami are NOT White & are NOT European even though they want to be accepted as indigenous Europeans, everyone knows they are Asian invaders & used to look just like the people in Siberia & Native Americans. I want the proof that Whites came from Asia. Where are the remains, where are the depictions (rock paintings,figurines,etc), where are the artifacts proving they were there & that they were White people. Still waiting. Last time I asked you that you said that they were so inferior that they left no trace of themselves.
There are no traces of whites in Europe at the Paleolithic nor Holocene, that is what I told you last time.
You came in recently to Europe and replaced older living populations. Then absorbed some of their traces.
quote: Originally the Scandinavians–except for the Finns and the Lapps–must have been one people. Perhaps their ancestors came northward from Asia Minor or the Balkans and founded the great Teutonic family.
quote: Given our results, it remains possible that the PWC represent remnants of a larger northern European Mesolithic hunter-gather complex. However, it appears unlikely that population continuity exists between the PWC and contemporary Scandinavians or Saami. Thus, our findings are in agreement with archaeological theories suggesting Neolithic or post-Neolithic population introgression or replacement in Scandinavia.
--Helena Malmström
Ancient DNA Reveals Lack of Continuity between Neolithic Hunter-Gatherers and Contemporary Scandinavians
quote: More knowledge about the history and geographic spread of Y chromosomes in Europe will resolve uncertainties resulting from the use of modern populations as indicators of ancestral gene pools. In a recent study, for example, Zerjal et al. (1999) proposed an Asian origin for haplogroup-3 chromosomes and demonstrated a cline of decreasing frequency from Asia into Europe, with high frequencies in northeast Europe and very low frequencies in the British Isles and southwest Europe. Using additional phylogenetic information, Zerjal et al. (1999) suggested that this distribution is the result of a population spread from Asia into Europe that did not reach these latter regions.
--Agnar Helgason
Estimating Scandinavian and Gaelic Ancestry in the Male Settlers of Iceland
quote:The Y chromosome thus provides both information about population relationships in Asia and evidence for a substantial paternal genetic contribution of Asians to northern European populations such as the Finns.
--T Zerjal, et al.
Genetic relationships of Asians and Northern Europeans, revealed by Y-chromosomal DNA analysis.
quote: Although the genetic heritage of aboriginal Siberians is mostly of eastern Asian ancestry, a substantial western Eurasian component is observed in the majority of northern Asian populations. Traces of at least two migrations into southern Siberia, one from eastern Europe and the other from western Asia/the Caucasus have been detected previously in mitochondrial gene pools of modern Siberians.ResultsWe report here 166 new complete mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequences that allow us to expand and re-analyze the available data sets of western Eurasian lineages found in northern Asian populations, define the phylogenetic status of Siberian-specific subclades and search for links between mtDNA haplotypes/subclades and events of human migrations. From a survey of 158 western Eurasian mtDNA genomes found in Siberia we estimate that nearly 40% of them most likely have western Asian and another 29% European ancestry. It is striking that 65 of northern Asian mitogenomes, i.e. ~41%, fall into 19 branches and subclades which can be considered as Siberian-specific being found so far only in Siberian populations. From the coalescence analysis it is evident that the sequence divergence of Siberian-specific subclades was relatively small, corresponding to only 0.6-9.5 kya (using the complete mtDNA rate) and 1¿6 kya (coding region rate).
Conclusions
The phylogeographic analysis implies that the western Eurasian founders, giving rise to Siberian specific subclades, may trace their ancestry only to the early and mid-Holocene, though some of genetic lineages may trace their ancestry back to the end of Last Glacial Maximum (LGM). We have not found the modern northern Asians to have western Eurasian genetic components of sufficient antiquity to indicate traces of pre-LGM expansions
--Derenko M et al.
BMC Evol Biol. 2014 Oct 10;14:217. doi: 10.1186/s12862-014-0217-9. Western Eurasian ancestry in modern Siberians based on mitogenomic data.
posted
Where is the proof Troll Patrol. Where are the skeletons or the mummies in Asia proving these people were there and that they were White, where are the depictions of these people (paintings, figurines, etc) proving they were there in Asia & they were White, where's the artifacts?
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by CelticWarrioress: Where is the proof Troll Patrol. Where are the skeletons or the mummies in Asia proving these people were there and that they were White, where are the depictions of these people (paintings, figurines, etc) proving they were there in Asia & they were White, where's the artifacts?
Ice princess - The Ukok Plateau Siberia - 300 B.C.
Note the high Nose bridge and PALE skin color.
Yuezhi warrior eastern Tarim Basin area - 100 B.C.
Ancient human genomes suggest three ancestral populations for present-day Europeans 2013
Iosif Lazaridis et al
Abstract
Analysis of ancient DNA can reveal historical events that are difficult to discern through study of present-day individuals. To investigate European population history around the time of the agricultural transition, we sequenced complete genomes from a ~7,500 year old early farmer from the Linearbandkeramik (LBK) culture from Stuttgart in Germany and an ~8,000 year old hunter-gatherer from the Loschbour rock shelter in Luxembourg. We also generated data from seven ~8,000 year old hunter-gatherers from Motala in Sweden. We compared these genomes and published ancient DNA to new data from 2,196 samples from 185 diverse populations to show that at least three ancestral groups contributed to present-day Europeans. The first are Ancient North Eurasians (ANE), who are more closely related to Upper Paleolithic Siberians than to any present-day population. The second are West European Hunter-Gatherers (WHG), related to the Loschbour individual, who contributed to all Europeans but not to Near Easterners. The third are Early European Farmers (EEF), related to the Stuttgart individual, who were mainly of Near Eastern origin but also harbored WHG-related ancestry. We model the deep relationships of these populations and show that about ~44% of the ancestry of EEF derived from a basal Eurasian lineage that split prior to the separation of other non-Africans.
________________________________________
^^^^^
The first are Ancient North Eurasians (ANE), who are more closely related to Upper Paleolithic Siberians than to any present-day population. The first Europeans were not African. Siberia is far away from Africa. So the ancestors of people form Siberia must have been from China or Central Asia with many thousands of years of in between settlement areas.
And modern Euroepans are derived from three populations
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by CelticWarrioress: Where is the proof Troll Patrol. Where are the skeletons or the mummies in Asia proving these people were there and that they were White, where are the depictions of these people (paintings, figurines, etc) proving they were there in Asia & they were White, where's the artifacts?
I have shown with science, telling us that whites/ modern europeans came from Asia (minor).
The rest is up to you to find out.
quote: Map of Indo European (left) migrations from ca. 4000 to 1000 BC according to the Kurgan model. The Anatolian migration (indicated with a dotted arrow) could have taken place either across the Caucasus or across the Balkans. The purple area corresponds to the assumed Urheimat (Samara culture, Sredny Stog culture). The red area corresponds to the area which may have been settled by Indo-European-speaking peoples up to ca. 2500 BC, and the orange area by 1000 BC.
Why are you so upset at the idea of whites originally coming from Asia ??
Please answer the question....
But Troll Patrol you said the first Europeans also came from Asia I dont understand what the problem is
No no, you said the first Europeans came from Asia. I said The first to inhabit Europe were those from Africa. They have been replaced by new incoming populations from Asia.
What is so difficult to understand about this?
It perhaps also explains this 1/3.
quote: ".. it appears that Europeans are about two-thirds Asians and one-third African."
--Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza (2001). Genes, peoples and languages. FARRAR STRAUS AND GIROUX Publishers
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: read updated last post
Do you understand the words replaced and absorption?
The Mediterranean was inhabited first, not the North.
Oldest Dutchman found in road excavations
Friday 24 September 2010
quote:Archaeologists in Flevoland have uncovered what they believe may be the oldest human remains ever found in the Netherlands, news agency ANP reports.
Bones from possibly more than one person have been found in a grave, which may date back to between 5,000 and 7,000 BC, the agency said. Other finds in the Swifterbant area are that age, ANP said.
The oldest human remains found in the Netherlands so far is the skeleton of ‘Trijntje’ found in Hardinxveld-Giessendam and dating to 5,500 BC.
The Swifterbant excavations have uncovered a mid-Stone Age camp, with thousands of flints, arrow-heads and other remains. They are being carried out in the route of a new road between Alkmaar and Zwolle.
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by kdolo: [qb] Doxie,
I dont understand what the problem is ?
Why are you so upset at the idea of whites originally coming from Asia ??
Please answer the question....
But Troll Patrol you said the first Europeans also came from Asia I dont understand what the problem is
No no, you said the first Europeans came from Asia. I said The first to inhabit Europe were those from Africa. They have been replaced by new incoming populations from Asia.
What is so difficult to understand about this?
On what basis do you have calling them African if they came from Siberia which is the furtherst point in Eurasia away from Africa and are described as Paleolithic Siberians?
On what basis do you have calling them African when there are many stages of settlement before even reaching Siberia in ancient China or Central Asia?
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by kdolo: [qb] Doxie,
I dont understand what the problem is ?
Why are you so upset at the idea of whites originally coming from Asia ??
Please answer the question....
But Troll Patrol you said the first Europeans also came from Asia I dont understand what the problem is
No no, you said the first Europeans came from Asia. I said The first to inhabit Europe were those from Africa. They have been replaced by new incoming populations from Asia.
What is so difficult to understand about this?
On what basis do you have calling them African if they came from Siberia which is the furtherst point in Eurasia away from Africa and are described as Paleolithic Siberians?
On what basis do you have calling them African when there are many stages of settlement before even reaching Siberia in ancient China or Central Asia?
I did not say the frist Europeans came from the Siberia, you do.
I said they came in from Africa into Europe (via the Levant and perhaps Iberia). Which in this paper they refer to as Arabia./ Middle East.
quote:However, three source populations are consistent with the data after excluding the Spanish who have evidence for African admixture24
[...]
The Basal Eurasian split would then have to be even older. A Basal Eurasian lineage in the Near East is plausible given the presence of anatomically modern humans in the Levant29 ~100 thousand years ago and African-related tools likely made by modern humans in Arabia30,31
Alternatively, evidence for gene flow between the Near East and Africa 32, and African morphology in pre-farming Natufians33 from Israel, may also be consistent with the population representing a later movement of humans out of Africa and into the Near East.
--Ancient human genomes suggest three ancestral populations for present-day Europeans
If you take a route from Siberia to Europe, then of course the African input is least likely to be the case.
In this paper they even "claimed" that LA Brana is Eurasian/ non-African in origin?
quote:We find that: (1) Loschbour (WHG) and Stuttgart (EEF) share more alleles with each other than either does with MA1 (ANE), as might be expected by geography, but MA1 shares more alleles with Loschbour than with Stuttgart, indicating a link between Eurasian hunter-gatherers to the exclusion of European farmers; (2) Eastern non-Africans share more alleles with Eurasian hunter-gatherers (MA1, Loschbour, La Braña, and Motala12) than with Stuttgart; (3) Every eastern non-African population except for Native Americans and Siberians is equally closely related to diverse Eurasian hunter-gatherers, but Native Americans and Siberians share more alleles with MA1 than with European huntergatherers; and (4) Eurasian hunter-gatherers and Stuttgart both share more alleles with Native Americans than with other eastern non-Africans.
No wonder they come up with these weird absurd conclusions.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: I did not say the frist Europeans came from the Siberia, you do.
I said they came in from Africa into Europe (via the Levant and perhaps Iberia). Which in this paper they refer to as Arabia./ Middle East.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
In your own words in what region were Europe's first hunter gatherer inhabitants in before they were in Europe?
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: As I have posted many times before. Via Siberia into Nortern Europe and then via the Crescent (Caucasus) into East Europe! Next month you'll probably ask me the same all over.
So you are retracting this last statement?
I'm talking about the ANE not the WHG or EEF
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Sorry Troll Patrol Whitey hating Black supremacist I demand proof, I'm not just gonna take you at your word & no I don't believe any anti-White scientists like the Anti-White self hating old geezer Sforza ( I shall make a trip to spit & pi$$ on his grave when he dies) or that East Indian Anti-White bitch Gimbutas, or any of the the other Anti-Whites you have sited. Where's the proof.
Mike how many times must you be told you Whitey hating Black supremacist goon, that book is NOT about White people's history and isn't worth any White person's time buying or reading or using to try to teach White children lies. Also that second mummy is most definitely NOT White but is Asian, Whites don't have slanty eyes & high prominent cheekbones like Asians do. The last one tested to a mixture of European & Middle Eastern so NOT White either. The Ice Princess well when they did a reconstruction of her face she had obvious Mongoloid influence in her features so not White but no different from any other Siberian person.
Kdolo, because you stupid White people hating Black supremacist goon we didn't come from Asia that is why. We like every other people deserve a land all of our own. White children have the right to a future whether you want them to have one or not. They have a right to know who they are, where they came from, who their ancestors were without being fed your Black supremacist bull crap to try to make them feel inferior. They have a right to exist. They have a right to knowledge of self. They have a right to be proud as White children.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by CelticWarrioress: Sorry Troll Patrol Whitey hating Black supremacist I demand proof, I'm not just gonna take you at your word & no I don't believe any anti-White scientists like the Anti-White self hating old geezer Sforza ( I shall make a trip to spit & pi$$ on his grave when he dies) or that East Indian Anti-White bitch Gimbutas, or any of the the other Anti-Whites you have sited. Where's the proof.
Mike how many times must you be told you Whitey hating Black supremacist goon, that book is NOT about White people's history and isn't worth any White person's time buying or reading or using to try to teach White children lies. Also that second mummy is most definitely NOT White but is Asian, Whites don't have slanty eyes & high prominent cheekbones like Asians do. The last one tested to a mixture of European & Middle Eastern so NOT White either. The Ice Princess well when they did a reconstruction of her face she had obvious Mongoloid influence in her features so not White but no different from any other Siberian person.
Kdolo, because you stupid White people hating Black supremacist goon we didn't come from Asia that is why. We like every other people deserve a land all of our own. White children have the right to a future whether you want them to have one or not. They have a right to know who they are, where they came from, who their ancestors were without being fed your Black supremacist bull crap to try to make them feel inferior. They have a right to exist. They have a right to knowledge of self. They have a right to be proud as White children.
We now have stooped so low, that showing whites coming from Asia minor is "black supremacy".
The reason why you're white is because your ancestor have depigmented. You are depigmented. SMH
Proof is in all those studies being posted. It's fellow whites who wrote them. Perhaps they have selfhate. Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: I did not say the frist Europeans came from the Siberia, you do.
I said they came in from Africa into Europe (via the Levant and perhaps Iberia). Which in this paper they refer to as Arabia./ Middle East.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness:
In your own words in what region were Europe's first hunter gatherer inhabitants in before they were in Europe?
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: As I have posted many times before. Via Siberia into Nortern Europe and then via the Crescent (Caucasus) into East Europe! Next month you'll probably ask me the same all over.
So you are retracting this last statement?
I'm talking about the ANE not the WHG or EEF
Yeah, and that's perhaps the problem here.
quote: Regular Middle Paleolithic inventories as well as Middle Paleolithic inventories of Aterian type have a long chronology in Morocco going back to MIS 6 and are interstratified in some sites. Their potential for detecting chrono-cultural patterns is low. The transition from the Middle to Upper Paleolithic, here termed Early Upper Paleolithic—at between 30 to 20 ka—remains a most enigmatic era. Scarce data from this period requires careful and fundamental reconsidering of human presence. By integrating environmental data in the reconstruction of population dynamics, clear correlations become obvious. High resolution data are lacking before 20 ka, and at some sites this period is characterized by the occurrence of sterile layers between Middle Paleolithic deposits, possibly indicative of a very low presence of humans in Morocco. After Heinrich Event 1, there is an enormous increase of data due to the prominent Late Iberomaurusian deposits that contrast strongly with the foregoing accumulations in terms of sedimentological features, fauna, and artifact composition. The Younger Dryas again shows a remarkable decline of data marking the end of the Paleolithic. Environmental improvements in the Holocene are associated with an extensive Epipaleolithic occupation. Therefore, the late glacial cultural sequence of Morocco is a good test case for analyzing the interrelationship of culture and climate change.
--Late Pleistocene Human Occupation of Northwest Africa: A Crosscheck of Chronology and Climate Change in Morocco Jörg Linstädter, Prehistoric Archaeology, Cologne University, GERMANY Josef Eiwanger, KAAK, German Archaeological Institute, GERMANY Abdessalam Mikdad, INSAP, MOROCCO Gerd-Christian Weniger, Neanderthal Museum, GERMANY
quote: North Africa is quickly emerging as one of the more important regions yielding information on the origins of modern Homo sapiens. Associated with significant fossil hominin remains are two stone tool industries, the Aterian and Mousterian, which have been differentiated, respectively, primarily on the basis of the presence and absence of tanged, or stemmed, stone tools. Largely because of historical reasons, these two industries have been attributed to the western Eurasian Middle Paleolithic rather than the African Middle Stone Age. In this paper, drawing on our recent excavation of Contrebandiers Cave and other published data, we show that, aside from the presence or absence of tanged pieces, there are no other distinctions between these two industries in terms of either lithic attributes or chronology. Together, these results demonstrate that these two ‘industries’ are instead variants of the same entity. Moreover, several additional characteristics of these assemblages, such as distinctive stone implements and the manufacture and use of bone tools and possible shell ornaments, suggest a closer affinity to other Late Pleistocene African Middle Stone Age industries rather than to the Middle Paleolithic of western Eurasia.
--On the industrial attributions of the Aterian and Mousterian of the Maghreb, Harold L. Dibble et al. Journal of Human Evolution, 2013 Elsevier.
quote:A complete mandible of Homo erectus was discovered at the Thomas I quarry in Casablanca by a French-Moroccan team. This mandible is the oldest human fossil uncovered from scientific excavations in Morocco. The discovery will help better define northern Africa's possible role in first populating southern Europe. A Homo erectus half-jaw had already been found at the Thomas I quarry in 1969, but it was a chance discovery and therefore with no archeological context.
posted
For the record…… I missed this the first time around. There goes Jablonski’s nonsense theory on “ the food made them white”. Lighten of skin has NADA to do with agricultural diet. Nothing!!!
Anyone know what “bridged” and “few populations of mainly Mediterranean origin” means?
4 thinsg stand out form the Lazaridis re-write
1. Starch assimilation has nothing to do with Agiculture 2. Milk consumption has nothing to do with Agriculure or pastoralism 3. Light skin has nothing to do with Agriculure 4. Both near East and European population have the same “source” population. Tic! Toc!
---------------------------- Ancient human genomes suggest three ancestral populations for present-day Europeans – Lazaridis et al Sep2014
reflect a strong bottleneck in Loschbour’s ancestors, as the genetic data show that he was not recently inbred (Extended Data Fig. 2). High copy numbers for the salivary amylase gene (AMY1) have been associated with a high starch diet12; our ancient genomes are consistent with the direction of this observation in that the Stuttgart farmer had the highest number of copies (16), whereas the ancient hunter-gatherers La Bran˜a (from Iberia)2,Motala12, and Loschbour had lower numbers (5, 6 and 13, respectively) (Supplementary Information section 7).We caution, however, that copy count in Loschbour is at the high end of present-day humans, showing that high copy counts of AMY1 cannot be accounted for entirely by selection since the switch to agriculture. Both Loschbour and Stuttgart had dark hair (.99% probability); and Loschbour, like La Bran˜a and Motala12, probably had blue OR light coloured eyes (.75%) whereas Stuttgart probably had brown eyes (.99% probability) (Supplementary Information section 8). Neither Loschbour nor La Bran˜a carries the skin-lightening allele in SLC24A5 that is homozygous in Stuttgart and nearly fixed in Europeans today2, but Motala12 carries at least one copy of the derived allele, showing that this allele was present in Europe before the advent of agriculture. We compared the ancient genomes to 2,345 present-day humans from 203 populations genotyped at 594,924 autosomal single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs)with the Human Origins array8 (Supplementary Information section 9) (Extended Data Table 1). We used ADMIXTURE13 to identify 59 ‘west Eurasian’ populations that cluster with Europe and the Near East (Supplementary Information section 9 and Extended Data Fig. 3). Principal component analysis (PCA)14 (Supplementary Information section 10) (Fig. 2) indicates a discontinuity between the Near East and Europe, with each showing north–south clines bridged only by a few populations of mainly Mediterranean origin.Weprojected15 the newly sequenced and previously published1–4 ancient genomes onto the first two principal components (PCs) (Fig. 2).
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quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A complete mandible of Homo erectus was discovered at the Thomas I quarry in Casablanca by a French-Moroccan team. This mandible is the oldest human fossil uncovered from scientific excavations in Morocco. The discovery will help better define northern Africa's possible role in ****first**** populating southern Europe. A Homo erectus half-jaw had already been found at the Thomas I quarry in 1969, but it was a chance discovery and therefore with no archeological context.
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Euroepans are depigmented North Africans who are in turn a subset of Suthern Sahara Africans.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
How or why? How ....mutation at several loci eg SLC24A5.
When ? Obviously about 4000bc during the Neolithic
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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We are a long way off from eye-balling Anthropology. BTW European were indeed blackskinned greater 6000ya. they were replaced by a new population. All Hunter gatherers tested so far were black skinned.
If you are seriously interested.... ====
DNA-based prediction of human externally visible characteristics in forensics: Motivations, scientific challenges, and ethical considerations - Manfred Kayser 2009 M. Schneider Published Online: February 26, 2009
Abstract
There will always be criminal cases, where the evidence DNA sample will not match either a suspect's DNA profile, or any in a criminal DNA database. In the absence of DNA-based mass intelligence screenings, including familial searching (both of which may be restricted by legislation), there is only one option to potentially avoid or retrospectively solve “cold cases”: the DNA-based prediction of human externally visible characteristics of an unknown person based on the crime scene sample left behind. Predictive DNA markers are expected to be available for some group-specific appearance traits in the near future; although it is ****unlikely that we will soon be able to understand the biological complexity of individual-specific appearance*****. In suspect-less cases reliable DNA-based prediction of broader externally visible characteristics from crime scene samples are expected to reduce the potential pool of suspects by allowing police investigations to concentrate on specific groups of people. Here, we aim to describe the forensic motivations for DNA-based prediction of human externally visible traits as well as the scientific challenges of finding predictive DNA markers, and will discuss examples with promising (e.g. sex, eye color and hair color), as well as less promising expectations (e.g. adult body height), in the foreseen future. Despite the complex ethical and legal implications arising from DNA-based prediction of externally visible characteristics, we argue that their use does not lead to a violation of privacy. We suggest that likelihood-based results, rather than DNA data itself, should be provided to the police for investigative purposes avoiding data protection issues. Furthermore, we note that the risk of exacerbating social pressure on minority groups due to DNA-based prediction of externally visible traits in crime cases may be reduced rather than increased compared to a conventional eyewitness testimony. A firm legal basis will need to be established for the application of these promising qualitative techniques. To gain the attention of legislative bodies, we invite the forensic community to participate in a public discourse of these issues
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posted
To those who interested. We are a long way off from Forensic DNA Phenotyping (FDP). All we can tell right now based upon DNA is skin color, eye color, deseases...but even that is not correct 100% of the time.
bottomline...the old world is divided into north vs south. Dark colored people to the south and light skin to the north.
Negritos are ancestral to East Asians while dark Africans are ancestral to Europeans.
the ancient dark europeans were really related to the Negrito blacks and not most modern Africans.
All ancient black europeans are really 'archaic' negritos like andamans, melenesians etc
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
in others words you cannot 'look" at a person and know their ancestry. you need to "look' at their DNA.
The DNA shows southern europeans are 70-80% african. lazaridis et al lol!
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Mike from your depiction of wide nosed African albinos it seems you have fallen into the trap of treating only wide nosed people as 'proper' Africans. It could be that albinism is more common among wide nosed Africans or because it easier to distinguish them from European people, as thin nosed African Albinos will be hard to distinguish from Europeans.
Also take note that wide noses were probably more common among medieval and Middle Age europeans that it is today, regardless of how light-complexioned they were.
This is for Doxie and Lioness
Johann George, Elector of Brandenburg (1571–1598) and Elizabeth of Anhalt
Don Carlos, son of Philip II of Spain
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Also take note that wide noses were probably more common among medieval and Middle Age europeans that it is today, regardless of how light-complexioned they were.
why do you think wide noses were probably more common among medieval and Middle Age europeans that it is today
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Habsburg: You guys are just confusing Doxie.
Mike from your depiction of wide nosed African albinos it seems you have fallen into the trap of treating only wide nosed people as 'proper' Africans. It could be that albinism is more common among wide nosed Africans or because it easier to distinguish them from European people, as thin nosed African Albinos will be hard to distinguish from Europeans.
First of all great find, you surprise me.
Apologies to all who may be confused by my discourse with xyyman. Annoyance cause me to be simplistic in order to combat the simplistic.
When dealing with large populations, a certain amount of generality is necessary. Certainly a population as large a the Western White Race (as differentiated from the Eastern Whites/Albinos), must necessarily include Albinos from sources other than Dravidians, though Dravidians must necessarily be the base and major part. DNA evidence bears that out.
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quote:Originally posted by Habsburg: [qb] You guys are just confusing Doxie.
Mike from your depiction of wide nosed African albinos it seems you have fallen into the trap of treating only wide nosed people as 'proper' Africans. It could be that albinism is more common among wide nosed Africans or because it easier to distinguish them from European people, as thin nosed African Albinos will be hard to distinguish from Europeans.
First of all great find, you surprise me.
He found something?
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol # Ish Gebor: We now have stooped so low, that showing whites coming from Asia minor is "black supremacy".
The reason why you're white is because your ancestor have depigmented. You are depigmented. SMH
Asia Minor, a peninsula also called Anatolia, comprises most of the Asian part of modern Turkey
That's at the same distance from the equator as Spain and Central China
quote:Many human craniofacial dimensions are largely of neutral adaptive significance, and an analysis of their variation can serve as an indication of the extent to which any given population is genetically related to or differs from any other. When 24 craniofacial measurements of a series of human populations are used to generate neighbor-joining dendrograms, it is no surprise that all modern European groups, ranging all of the way from Scandinavia to eastern Europe and throughout the Mediterranean to the Middle East, show that they are closely related to each other. The surprise is that the Neolithic peoples of Europe and their Bronze Age successors are not closely related to the modern inhabitants, although the prehistoric/modern ties are somewhat more apparent in southern Europe. It is a further surprise that the Epipalaeolithic Natufian of Israel from whom the Neolithic realm was assumed to arise has a clear link to Sub-Saharan Africa. Basques and Canary Islanders are clearly associated with modern Europeans. When canonical variates are plotted, neither sample ties in with Cro-Magnon as was once suggested. The data treated here support the idea that the Neolithic moved out of the Near East into the circum-Mediterranean areas and Europe by a process of demic diffusion but that subsequently the in situ residents of those areas, derived from the Late Pleistocene inhabitants, absorbed both the agricultural life way and the people who had brought it.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Euroepans are depigmented North Africans who are in turn a subset of Southern Sahara Africans
So then about 6,000 years ago, millions of Black Europeans woke up one morning and found that they had turned into depigmented Albinos.
Okay, but just one thing:
Sub-Saharan Albinos DON'T LOOK LIKE EUROPEANS!
ONLY DRAVIDIAN ALBINOS LOOK LIKE EUROPEANS! (Because they ARE Europeans).
So then xyyman, can you explain the discrepancy?
Mike pay attention, the first African people xyyman mentioned were "North Africans" therefore you should post North Africans for comparison and don't jump to his second remark which was
" who are in turn a subset of Southern Sahara Africans"
And even if you were to ignore over the first people he mentioned you still get him wrong. He said "Southern Sahara Africans" that means Africans inside the Southern part of the Sahara
But you brought up "Sub-Saharan Albinos" that means Africans living outside of the Sahara, all of Africa below the Sahara
Again, stop being a bone head and deal with what he said
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by xyyman: Euroepans are depigmented North Africans who are in turn a subset of Southern Sahara Africans
So then about 6,000 years ago, millions of Black Europeans woke up one morning and found that they had turned into depigmented Albinos.
Okay, but just one thing:
Sub-Saharan Albinos DON'T LOOK LIKE EUROPEANS!
ONLY DRAVIDIAN ALBINOS LOOK LIKE EUROPEANS! (Because they ARE Europeans).
So then xyyman, can you explain the discrepancy?
Mike pay attention, the first African people xyyman mentioned were "North Africans" therefore you should post North Africans for comparison and don't jump to his second remark which was
"who are in turn a subset of Southern Sahara Africans"
And even if you were to ignore over the first people he mentioned you still get him wrong. He said "Southern Sahara Africans" that means Africans inside the Southern part of the Sahara
But you brought up "Sub-Saharan Albinos" that means Africans living outside of the Sahara, all of Africa below the Sahara
Again, stop being a bone head and deal with what he said
Lio, where are your pictures of European diversity? LOL
As if all sub Saharan people have similar facial traits.
I find it annoying to repeat myself, but for the sake of the argument.
quote:Migrations into India “did occur, but rarely from western Eurasian populations.” There are low frequencies of the western Eurasian mtDNA types in both southern and northern India. Thus, the ‘caucasoid’ features of south Asians may best be considered ‘pre-caucasoid’— that is, part of a diverse north or north-east African gene pool that yielded separate origins for western Eurasian and southern Asian populations over 50,000 years ago.
-- U.S. biological anthropologist Todd R. Disotell.
quote: European connection? Some features, such as the molars, of these 40,000-year- old specimens from Romania resemble those of earlier North African hominins.
Abstract The Aterian fossil hominins represent one of the most abundant series of human remains associated with Middle Stone Age/Middle Paleolithic assemblages in Africa.
The discovery will help better define northern Africa's possible role in first populating southern Europe.
The makers of these assemblages can therefore be seen as (1) a group of Homo sapiens predating and/or contemporary to the out-of-Africa exodus of the species, and (2) geographically one of the (if not the) closest from the main gate to Eurasia at the northeastern corner of the African continent.
Although Moroccan specimens have been discovered far away from this area, they may provide us with one of the best proxies of the African groups that expanded into Eurasia[...]
quote:At about 40,000 years ago, however, Homo sapiens, in the form of the Cro-Magnons, began trickling into Europe, probably from an initially African place of origin.
[...]
It was brought with them by the Cro-Magnons, whose new qualities had emerged elsewhere. Probably this was in Africa, for it is from this continent that we have not just the first suggestions of the emergence of modern anatomical structure, but of modern behaviors as well.
[...]
The most remarkable early evidence of symbolic activity in Africa comes in the form of the recent find of engraved ochre plaques, such as this one, from Blombos Cave on the southern coast of Africa (Fig. 10). This is an unequivocally symbolic object, even if we cannot directly discern the significance of the geometric design that the plaque bears; and it is dated to around 70,000 years ago, over 30,000 years before anything equivalent is found in Europe.
To evidence such as this can be added suggestions of a symbolic organization of space at the site of Klasies River Mouth (Fig. 11), also near the southern tip of Africa, at over 100,000 years ago. Pierced shells, with the strong implication of stringing for body ornamentation, are known from Porc-Epic Cave in Ethiopia at around 70,000 years ago. Bone tools of the kind introduced much later to Europe by the Cro-Magnons, are found at the Congolese site of Katanda, dated to perhaps 80,000 years ago. Blade tool industries, again formerly associated principally with the Cro-Magnons, are found at least sporadically at sites in Africa that date to as much as a quarter of a million years ago. Also in the economic/technological realm, such activities as flint-mining, pigment-processing and long-distance trade in useful materials are documented in Africa up to about 100,000 years ago. These and other early African innovations are reviewed by McBrearty and Brooks (2000).
See the "secondary" orange lines? These are 2nd migrationary events. See the lines from Madenkas and other SSA to North Africa. then from North Africa to Southern Europe.
This is not rocket science.
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Sorry for the large pic. But here is what Pickerell says'
Quote: Finally, we infer an admixture edge from the Middle East (a population related to the Mozabite, a Berber population from northern Africa) to southern European populations (w~22%). This migration edge is the one edge that is not consistent across independent runs of TreeMix on these data (Figure S8). In particular, an alternative graph (albeit with lower likelihood) places the Mozabite as an admixture between southern Europe and Africa *****(RATHER ******than the Middle East and Africa), and does NOT include an edge from the middle East to southern Europe.
WE THUS HESITATE TO INTERPRET THIS RESULT, except to note that the relationship between northern African, the Middle East, and southern Europe involves complex patterns of gene flow that merit further investigation [43,57].
posted
Europeans are essentially depigmented "modern" Africans.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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To those who can follow. This is the exact same thing DNATribes observed (they will be missed), migration going from North Africa to Europe OR Near East to Europe. Not both. They were unsure. Now Pickerell made the same statement. This is too easy.
quote:Originally posted by xyyman: [Q Sorry for the large pic. But here is what Pickerell says'
Quote: Finally, we infer an admixture edge from the Middle East (a population related to the Mozabite, a Berber population from northern Africa) to southern European populations (w~22%). This migration edge is the one edge that is not consistent across independent runs of TreeMix on these data (Figure S8). In particular, an alternative graph (albeit with lower likelihood) places the Mozabite as an admixture between southern Europe and Africa *****(RATHER ******than the Middle East and Africa), and does NOT include an edge from the middle East to southern Europe.
WE THUS HESITATE TO INTERPRET THIS RESULT, except to note that the relationship between northern African, the Middle East, and southern Europe involves complex patterns of gene flow that merit further investigation [43,57].
posted
Even back then, close to three decades ago, before recent advnaces in genetics , they knew Modern Europeans are NOT a wholesome group. Now with recent advances they have narrowed the “Midlle East” to North Africa. Now the archeological and Anthroplogical similarities on both side of the Medit Sea makes sense.
This is too easy.
--------------------- Posted by TP earlier.
Even back then:
Eur J Hum Genet. 1993;1(1):3-18. Human genomic diversity in Europe: a summary of recent research and prospects for the future. Cavalli-Sforza LL1, Piazza A.
Author information
Abstract
Gene frequencies in Europe are intermediate with respect to those of other continents. A phylogenetic tree reconstructed from 95 gene frequencies tested on 26 European samples shows some deviant populations (Lapps, Sardinians, Greeks, Yugoslavs, Basques, Icelanders and Finns) and other weakly structured populations. This behavior may have a simple interpretation: Europeans have not evolved according to a tree of descent probably because of the major role played by migrations in prehistorical and historical times. The leading component of the European genetic landscape is a gradient that originates in the Middle East and is directed to the northwest. According to the hypothesis by Ammerman and Cavalli-Sforza this gradient was generated by a migration of Neolithic farmers from Anatolia followed by continuous, partial admixture of the expanding farmers with local hunter-gatherers. Other leading components of the gene frequencies in Europe show correlations with possible movements of Uralic-speaking people and pastoral nomads from a region north of the Caucasus and Black Sea, which according to Gimbutas is the area of origin of Indo-European speakers. This analysis is based on classical pre-DNA genetic markers. The prospect of future research using DNA polymorphisms is discussed in the context of the Human Genome Project.
Future research and the Genome Project is now virtually complete.
In addtion that new paper on the IE on the Yamnaya has now confirmed there was additional movement of “pastoralist” from the East but they did not have a significant impact. Because the Yamnaya peoples were also admixed with recent Africans. To those who can follow the Yamnaya people mtDNA hg_H was UNLIKE the North Africans. The high resolution analysis shows their sub-clade was on a different branch of the HG-H tree.
This is too easy.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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You are really funny. Ha! Ha! I just posted on Forensic DNA Phenotyping. Not been to Africa so I don't know the difference between a Berber, Afar, Zulu, Mandingo etc. I am going strictly by the data presented in the papers. The researchers know the indigenous populations. That is why they sample Amazigh in North Africa and Bedoiuns in the levant and Arabia.
Did they have Afros? I don't know because DNA analysis to identify hair texture is not that advance (see FDP). But as I "speculated" before. Straight hair is indigenous to Africa. Why? The convergent evolution of Negritos.
This is too easy.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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As for ANE. You need to be able to read the charts and understand them. ALL,yes, ALL populations have an Aftican origin. See the black branches in the Pickerell chart posted above. ANE is part of the first OOA. The orange line is one of the subsequent "recent" OOA. More than 80% of some modern European DNA is from the recent OOA. Pickerell chart just corraborated Lazadiris!!!! ANE is as named, North East Asia, but also came Out of AFRICA. Their entry into Europe was via .......the North East!!! Ding ding ding
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
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There are no traces of whites in Europe at the Paleolithic nor Holocene, that is what I told you last time. 
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