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1--A. HLA gene markers are limited as comprehensive expositors of gene flow, but they do show some gene flow between Africa and Greece and the Northern Mediterranean. They are not needed however, as numerous other lines of evidence show the same.
These include: mtDNA M1a and various L lineages, nrY E-M215 and subclades, AIM full genome autosomes, HLA full haplotype A*30:02 Cw*05:01 B*18:01 DRB1*03:01 DQA1*05:01 DQB1*02:01, chr 7 CFTR 3120+1G->A mutation chr 8p23 YRI haplotypes, Benin Hb S, GM*1,17 23' 5*, cDe allele of the Rh gene, Fy*O allele of the Duffy blood group locus and V (Rh10) and Jsa (K6) antigens. [/i]
1B-- Villena's Greek-Macedonian-African study has nothing to do with the Jew-Palestinian controversy. The study was withdrawn for political reasons, and offended sensibilities of various Jewish and other groups. Assorted "biodiversity" types try to use that to advance a bogus claim that the Greek data was "withdrawn." Total BS. It is alive and well and appears specifically in Vilenna's Greek study: HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks Tissue Antigens 2001: 57: 118–127 Jewish - Palestinian controversies have nothing to do with it.
2-- The Palestinian study also notes that Greeks are related to Africans via cystic fibrosis mutations.
3-- It is true that the data being used is highly variable HLA genes. However the presence of Japanese clustering with south Africans is not as far fetched as it seems. HLA genes are useful in analyzing certain arthritis conditions. There is hard medical data in various HLA studies that indeed show Japanese and south African blacks grouping together in relation to arthritis conditions. See the data below.
4-- Anthro/Archaeo data show the presence of African traits (and remember Africans have a wide variety of traits) in the Neolithic data. The full info has already been posted but here is some anthro/archaeo data affirming the presence of "negroid" traits from early times: quote: "The female of forty-plus years of age from Grave 2 was examined by J. L. Angel who noted what he interpreted as a number of 'negroid' .. traits in the face." The skull is fairly complete, but not enough so for discriminant function analysis." There is marked maxillary prognathism and the orbits may be described as rectangular, traits frequently used in forensic diagnosis of Negro crania... " -- Skeletons of Lerna Hollow. Al B. Wesolowsky. Hesperia, Vol. 42, No. 3. (Jul. - Sep., 1973), pp. 340-351.
"Early Neolithic Macedonia centered on a Dinaric-Mediterranean (type F) average but with an extremely broad nose, more prognathism, and a little more mouth tilt than expected (all, perhaps from negroid development of the incisor region.." -- The people of Lerna: analysis of a prehistoric Aegean population. J.L Angel 1971
"The portrayal on the 'minature fresco' from Thera, and on the other, very fragmentary Aegean frescoes, of diverse stylistic elements- flora a nd fauna, 'negroid' human representations, the riverine setting, of the 'minature fresco,' etc- that seem to be north African, 'Libyan' or Egyptian in origin." --The Aegean and the Orient in the second millennium: proceedings of the 50th anniversary symposium, Cincinnati, 18-20 April 1997
"The inhabitants of the Aegean area in the Bronze Age may have been much like many people in the Mediterranean basin today, short and slight of build with dark hair and eyes and sallow complexions. Skeletons show that the population of the Aegean was already mixed by Neolithic times, and various facial types, some with delicate features and pointed noses, others pug-nosed, almost negroid, are depicted in wall paintings from the 16th century BC..." -- The Home of the Heroes: The Aegean Before the Greeks (1967)
------------------ Scholars also link the Negroid elements to sickle-cell anemia------- QUOTE: "The female from Grave 2 is among those with thickened parietals. It should be pointed out that maxillary prognathsm, one of the skeleton's "Negroid" features, is characteristic both of thalassemia and sickle-cell anemia." -- Skeletons of Lerna Hollow. Al B. Wesolowsky. Hesperia, Vol. 42, No. 3. (Jul. - Sep., 1973), pp. 340-351.
5-- Other elements like Benin Sickle Cell traits are also found among the Greeks and various Africans and some skeletal/cranial studies find African elements in Greece (Angel 1972 for example) QUOTE:
"A late Pleistocene-early Holocene northward migration (from Africa to the Levant and to Anatolia) of these populations has been hypothesized from skeletal data (Angel 1972, 1973; Brace 2005) and from archaeological data, as indicated by the probable Nile Valley origin of the "Mesolithic" (epi-Paleolithic) Mushabi culture found in the Levant (Bar Yosef 1987). This migration finds some support in the presence in Mediterranean populations (Sicily, Greece, southern Turkey, etc.; Patrinos et al.; Schiliro et al. 1990) of the Benin sickle cell haplotype. This haplotype originated in West Africa and is probably associated with the spread of malaria to southern Europe through an eastern Mediterranean route (Salares et al. 2004) following the expansion of both human and mosquito populations brought about by the advent of the Neolithic transition (Hume et al 2003; Joy et al. 2003; Rich et al 1998). This northward migration of northeastern African populations carrying sub-Saharan biological elements is concordant with the morphological homogeneity of the Natufian populations (Bocquentin 2003), which present morphological affinity with sub-Saharan populations (Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005). In addition, the Neolithic revolution was assumed to arise in the late Pleistocene Natufians and subsequently spread into Anatolia and Europe (Bar-Yosef 2002), and the first Anatolian farmers, Neolithic to Bronze Age Mediterraneans and to some degree other Neolithic-Bronze Age Europeans, show morphological affinities with the Natufians (and indirectly with sub-Saharan populations; Angel 1972; Brace et al 2005), in concordance with a process of demic diffusion accompanying the extension of the Neolithic revolution (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994)."
-- F. X. Ricaut, M. Waelkens. (2008). Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzantine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements Human Biology - Volume 80, Number 5, October 2008, pp. 535-564
6-- Greeks, Africans and African-influenced Arab populations share a unique common cystic fibrosis mutation
"The observed identity of extended CFTR haplotypes for the 312011GrA alleles in the Arab, African, and African American patients strongly suggests that this mutation has a common origin in these groups. This finding is not surprising in the case of Africans and African Americans, since the latter group has originated mostly from the western African coast and came to North America between the 16th and 19th centuries, which is too recent to allow origination of significant CFTR-mutation haplotype changes restricted to African Americans. It is not quite so simple to explain the presence of the 312011GrA mutation in African and Saudi Arab patients.
However, a continuous gene flow between Arab and African populations probably has persisted for many centuries, in association with trading and with the spread of the Islamic religion. Thus far, the Greeks are the only Caucasian population in which the 312011GrA mutation has been identified. A recurrent mutational event seems to be unlikely, because the Greek haplotype differs from the others in only two minor respects..
Greek and Arab/African haplotypes of the 312011GrA mutation thus may have diverged from a common ancestor and then evolved separately in the respective populations. In summary, our present analysis provides the first evidence for a common origin of CF among African, Arab, Greek, and African American populations. The shared extra- and intragenic 312011GrA–associated haplotype is most easily explained by the assumption of a single origin for this mutation. 312011GrA appears to be an ancient mutation that may be more common than previously thought, in populations of the tropical and subtropical belt, where CF probably is an underdiagnosed disorder." --Dörk, et al. (August 1998). "Evidence for a common ethnic origin of cystic fibrosis mutation
7-- Other cultural/archaeo data testify to the African presence, africans again having a wde range of features
QUOTES "THE FORERUNNERS During the Early Minoan period the population of southern Crete may have included a Negroid element. The presence of such an element from Libya in the Cretan population has been argued on the basis of an inlay of shell now in the Ashmolean Museum. This inlay may have come from an early circular tomb at Ayios Onouphrios. It depects a bearded face, with thick lips and snub nose. Other objects might lead to the same observaton for later periods. Among the faiences showing house fronts (Middle Minoan II)15 there is one in which are seen the prow of a ship and swarthy, prognathous, clearly Negroid people, some steatopygic... It is uncertain, however, what role to assign to the non-Minoan figures in this scene, which it has been suggested, may represent the represent the siege of a seacoast town. Scholars are in greater agreement with respect to their interpretations of the coal black spearmen who appear in a fragment of a fresco, which Evans called The Captain of the Blacks, belonging to Late Minoan 145 II.18 The fresco depicts a Minoan captain, wearing a yellow kilt and a horned cap of skin, who leads, at the double, a file of black men similarly dressed." -- The image of the Black in Western art: Volume 4, Part 1 Jean Vercoutter, Ladislas Bugner, Jean Devisse. 1976
"The Theran is a young man whose black wavy hairm rather thick lips, and nose with reduced platyrrniny are clearly shown. Although he acknowledges that these traits suggest a NEgrito or Nubian, Marinatos avoids precise anthropological definition and concludes that the characteristics seem to indicate an "African".
"An intrepretation of NEgroes in Crete and Pylos as soldiers would have some support in the example of Egypt, with its long tradition of Nubian mercenaries. A striking example, belonging somewhat earlier period that that of the Minoan Captain of the Blacks fresco, is provided by the wooden models of forthy black archers in Cairo, found in a tomb of a prince of Assiut." pg 138
L. Bertholon and E. Chantre have analyzed results of black-white crossings in their detailed anthropoligical study of ancient and modern Tripolitiana, Tunisia, and Algeria. They call attention to the degrees of Negro admixture as evidenced by the extent to which Negroid features appear in mixed North African peoples. R. Bartoccini in his study of the somatic characteristics of anciet Libyans, illustrates his observations on racial crossings between Libyans and Negroes from the interior by pointing to the Negroid nose (broad) and hair (curly or wooly) .."
"Some of the physical features of this type are: dark or black color expressed in a variety of ways, tightly curled platyrrhine nose, and thick, often everted lips. '
"In a scene on a red-figured calyx-krater of the peropd from Canicattoni, now in Syracuse, a female dancer, fully draped, stands on tiptoe. The treatment of the nose, the lips and the tightly curled hair indicates that Negroid features were intended.. the realism and anthropological fidelity of those cited above leave no doubt as to the artists' intent.." pg 171 -- The image of the Black in Western art: Volume 4, Part 1 Jean Vercoutter, Ladislas Bugner, Jean Devisse. 1976
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ADDITIONAL DATA: AFRICAN HAPLOGROUP E FOUND IN GREEKS
QUOTE: "Underhill et al. (2001) showed that the frequency of the YAP+ Y haplogroup commonly referred to as haplogroup E or (III) is relatively high (about 25%) in the Middle East and Mediterranean. This haplogroup E is the major haplogroup found in sub-Saharan Africa (over 75% of all Y chromosomes). SPecifically, Europeans contain the E3b subhaplogroup, which was derived from haplogroup E in sub-Saharan Africa and currently is distributed along the North and East of Africa.. It appears that the 171 AIM test subject of this chapter may recognize the haplogroup E character as West African."
--T. Frudakis. 2008. Molecular photofitting: predicting ancestry and phenotype using DNA
Summary: Again note, contrary to the bogus claims of some, few credible observers are saying that the Greeks are not European. That is not at issue. What is at issue is clear, documented African gene flow into Greece from ancient times. This proven gene flow is demonstrated in multiple lines of evidence- from DNA to anthro, to archaeo scholarship. It does not rely on just one line of evidence, or one scholar. The removal of HLA gene studies for example does little to shake the other substantial lines of evidence. The multiple lines confirm and cross-check one another. For example, scholars studying skeletal data link them with populations where sickle-cell anemia is present. Likewise anyone denying ancient African presence in Crete would be contradicted by skeletal, cultural and other evidence.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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Do they even offer evidence of that number? Wouldnt be surprised if you just bought it cause it talked sh**. Blacks don't pressure women to be fat. They just arent gonna demonize em for it like mainstream stuff does. This stuff also doesnt ever mention stuff like...oh wait blacks bein poor more so they gotta eat food higher and fat and are less educated on what is good to eat. Without that education we only fall back on traditional foods we know how to cook that were higher in fat but were more ok cause we needed the calories for the hard labor.
Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011
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^I posted it because it is an issue of concern which needs to be brought to the forefront. Diabetes is one of the main diseases killing black women.
Posts: 507 | Registered: May 2012
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That is the fucking purpose of the article -to generate dialogue and get those very people informed and educated on the issue.
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: and are less educated on what is good to eat. Without that education we only fall back on traditional foods we know how to cook that were higher in fat but were more ok cause we needed the calories for the hard labor.
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RobertB said... The idea that we are all equal coincides with the rise in the belief that the Nation-State is/was a bad thing.
^Actually this is incorrect. You have it backwards. The notion of equality took a big BOOST with the RISE of the nation state as a good thing. The cry of the French Revolution, (Liberte. Egalite, Fraternite) was characteristic of notions of equality rising with the notion of the nation state replacing monarchies or church regimes. You have it backwards.
Nation-States protect those within from those without. By human nature or necessity, they were comprised of peoples who spoke the same language and looked the same. ^^You are woefully misinformed. There have been numerous nations where significant segments of the population speak a different language and do not look the same. Switzerland undermines you claim, as does Belgium, regarding language. Russia, whether in Soviet or Non-Soviet versions also debunks your claim. SO too does America.
Some of those cultural aspects were incorporated into American culture, but most were not as the nation remained largely WASP until 1965.
WASPS were in decline long since the early 20th century- as the growth of Irish and German Catholic immigrants attest, along with the growth of other minoroties from Eastern Europe like Poles, or people like Jews and Italians. On what basis do you get your 1965 figure?
Too prosperous as it is to ever want Marxist revolution, they had to be brought along slowly. Thus began the brainwashing that all are equal and the same--that allowed the gates to the Nation-State to be not just opened, but pulled down.
You are once again misinformed. The "all are equal" notion goes back to the French Revolution in the 1700s, or even before. It did not begin with Marxists of the 20th century. And ironically, one of the groups of people that opened up the gates of the "nation-state" in a wide way were WASPS. Influential WASPS strongly supported immigration for various reasons, including CHinese immigration in 19th century California. (See: Rethinking ethnicity: majority groups and dominant minorities. By Eric P. Kaufmann 2004) You simply do not have your facts right.
This is an important aspect of the whole idea of equality of peoples. As long as America remained white and restricted it's borders to only other whites, it was impervious to the assault.
^^But America has never remained totally white, nor has it ever restricted its borders to only other whites. The fantasy state you claim never existed in the real world.
Our Nation has been ransacked, pillaged and plundered. Our accumulated wealth has either been taxed away to feed the barbarian hordes or left the nation out of fear or survival.
^What a bunch of BS. And has it ever occurred to you that the main consumer of taxes is other white people? The billions in taxes that go in to school systems, furnishing a nice living for mostly white school teachers, and white unions, were imposed by white people, for the benefit of other white people. Likewise the bulk of the money spent on welfare, does not reach the poor. About two--thirds is consumed by mostly white administrators, clerks and other bureaucrats, and the bulk of the beenficiaries of welfare are white. Indeed, in states where there is heavy black population, welfare benefits are lower than where whites are a majority.
From 1960 to 1990 for example, states with larger black welfare populations offered significantly LOWER welfare benefits, than in states with larger white populations. In essence, white welfare recipients saw greater amounts of aid given than blacks proportionately in said states, even though whites overall are better off than blacks, whether measured by income, net worth or family structure. Far from "undue" black benefit, white people got higher welfare payments in states where they were the majority welfare population, while the black share was cut where they were the majority. We keep hearing about massive legions of "undeserving" blacks on welfare, but the bottom line is that better off whites, proportionately, are feeding more extensively and profitably from the welfare trough than blacks.ee Gerald C. Wright. 1977. “Racism and Welfare Policy in America.” Social Science Quarterly 57(3): 718-30; Christopher Howard. 1999. “Field Essay: American Welfare Sate or States?.” Political Research Quarterly).
Of course, it then follows, that those races that came later are more highly evolved. Thus Asians are more evolved than Africans and Europeans are higher evolved still. I know, I know, thats not what they teach in African studies, but it is the logical conclusion if one is a Darwinist.
^It is the "logical conclusion" of one poorly informed. And you debunk your own racist arguments. Native Americans came after European whites. They thus are more highly evolved people, according to your own reasoning.
Now, I personally have never believed the "Out Of Africa" theory. Largely because there has not been enough time. but also because it stinks of PC science ^Actually the Out of Africa model has been confirmed and replicated by conservtive scientists who believe in race numerous times. See Cavalli-Sforza, 1994 in Genes, Languages and People for example. You simply do not know what you are talking about.
And the fine print on the genetic based computer model that produced that outcome 5 or 6 years ago specifically stated that there was an equal probability that the races arose spontaneously on separate continents. ^^LOL, then your "genetic based computer model" is the product of space aliens or an addled mind, most likely the latter. Pray tell, what credible scientiost produced said "model"? Give a name, date and citation and other "fine print". Don't take too long. We'll wait. Crickets chirping...
Being black, you are suffering from confirmation bias. /b] Being dubious, you suffer from an excess of hot air.
[b]The OOA hypothesis is pure speculation, and genetic research "proves" no such origin. Anthropologists and geneticists have been engaged in a robust debate about this issue for years, with new discoveries being made every year. /b] ^^No the OOA is not "pure speculation." It is hard science. PErhaps you should learn to read. THe OOA hypothesis has been supported multiple times, and the weight of scientific data lies with it. Is there debate on migration events aand patterns? Of course, but not about the fact that modern humans originated in Africa. That part is settled science. But your pseudo scientific racism would never nunderstand this.
[b] I direct you to an excellent anthro blog Dieneks.blog.com./b]
lmao.. Dienekes blog trades in pesudo scientism. When debunked he sometimes cuts off adverse comments and only allows his favorites to post.
[b]The second to last post addressed this very issue, with new evidence from the Arabian peninsula calling into question the entire theory of an OOA origin./b] ^^Curiously, neither you or the first poster ever cite or describe this "new evidence." And your claim about "calling into question" doesnt mean diddly. Theories about mystical Atlantis "call into question" evolutionary theory, but what you beleive is irrelevant. What counts is the hard scholarship at hand. [b]Demonstrate where your "new evidence" shows anatomically modern humans did not originate in Africa. Don't try to wriggle away, let's see what you got. BRing your new evidence and cite it showing where it denies the origin of modern humans in Africa. Don't take too long.. We'll wait...
Basically, the fact that there is no archeological signature of an Out Of Africa expansion at 70k to 40k, while there are modern humans found everywhere by at least 40,000 years ago, and with several new finds in Arabia at 100,000 years old, suggests there was no expansion out of Africa./b]
^^Laughable, bogus nonsense. Since you doubt AMHs originated in Africa just one example will suffice to debunk your racialist fantasies. Even more ironic, the data shows that the people you claim to be non-existent in Africa, in fact, expanded from there, into Arabia. QUOTE: The timing of the dispersal of anatomically modern humans (AMH) out of Africa is a fundamental question in human evolutionary studies. Existing data suggest a rapid coastal exodus via the Indian Ocean rim around 60,000 years ago. We present evidence from Jebel Faya, United Arab Emirates, demonstrating human presence in eastern Arabia during the last interglacial. The tool kit found at Jebel Faya has affinities to the late Middle Stone Age in northeast Africa.. --- Armitage, et al, 2011. The SOuthern ROute, Science 38, vol 331
Well now looks like you lose "homes"... You have produced nothing, while I give you your "Arabian factor" with credible scholars showing precisely what you claim doesn't exist.
Let me school you some more. You point to several new finds in Arabia at 100,000 years old and claim that this "proves" modern himans could not have originated in Africa. Dufus! The 100,000 year old fossils are not anatomically modern humans. And archaic humans ALSO migrated from Africa to other parts of the world. Sheesh.. how incompetent can you be? This is Evolution 101.
[b]These studies refute the OOA hypothesis Too Tall Jones relies upon-- Also see :Analysis of the full brain case shape confirms the idea that dispersal from a single population could not explain the early modern human variability, but does not confirm ties to regional archaic humans. Gunz, P., et. al. (2009-04-14).
"Early modern human diversity suggests subdivided population structure and a complex out-of-Africa scenario".
Even if all modern humans descend from an OOA migration, which is still hotly debated
^^ There is very little serious debate on this score. THe OOA hypothesis for modern humans has been extensively supported by genetic and fossil evidence, and is accepted by a majority of credible scholars. Most of the debate today centers around migratory events. And the references you cite above do little to "refute" OOA theory. LEt's look at them:
1) The Chinese claim- In fact your link shows 2 major scholars in the field disputing the unconfirmed Chinese claim with one noting that too often for China's scientists in this field: QUOTE: "You need to keep in mind that 'Homo sapiens' for most Chinese scholars is not limited to anatomically modern humans," he says. "For many of them, it is all 'post Homo erectus,' humans." Its been 2 years since the China find, and it STILL has not been confirmed. So much for any claims of "conclusive" Chinee proof..
2) The Brain case study:
In actuality your proferred study does NOT support what you are claiming at all. Let look at it: -quote-- Analysis of the full brain case shape confirms the idea that dispersal from a single population could not explain the early modern human variability, but does not confirm ties to regional archaic humans..
As can be seen, the point of issue is if there was a SINGLE population dispersal. This is nothing special. OOA scenarios have long postulated MULTIPLE dispersals of modern humans from Africa. All your "proof" shows is a question mark on the single group scenario. It does not touch the central fact of OOA origins.
Furthermore the brain case study notes: -quote- " but does not confirm ties to regional archaic humans.."
^ In short, ironically, you just debunked some HBD arguments with your own supporting reference. Your "supporting" info says that the finding does NOT confirm ties to regional archaic humans." There goes the HDB multi-regional racial model.. whoops...
Gunz Study- Early modern human dispersals..
Here again, you just debunked yourself with your own data. Gunz et al. do not question the OOA origin, but rather than there was a SINGLE exit of Africans. You are trying sleight of hand- implying that said studies contradict OOA, but in fact they accept OOA. The debate is on the dispersal patterns of the OOA migrants, not their point of origin which is Africa. QUOTE from Gunz:
"Rather than a single out-of-Africa dispersal scenario, we suggest that early modern humans were already divided into different populations in Pleistocene Africa, after which there followed a complex migration pattern."
^^So we have several different populations coming out of Africa. It has nothing to do with "Race", just the diverse group variants within Africa, migrating out at various times.
Dude, you have failed, and ironically, debunk your own arguments, with your own "supporting" references.
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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zarahan- aka Enrique Cardova, your flooding thread topic tactic won't make the problem go away. Instead of being embarrassed and humiliated by overweight Black women, see the article as a rally call to bring health awareness to Black women.
Posts: 507 | Registered: May 2012
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^Of course they're not! They can't! Truth stands on its own; the article is truthful. But unfortunately they are desparately attempting to divert attention away from it with their non sequitur bullock.
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The analogous question is what percentage of white women, Hispanic women, Native American women are overweight?
The 80% number could be overblown because if womanhood begins at age 18 years then clearly 18-25 year old black women are just not 20% of the black female population. Black female athletes of all stripes, all those black female workers in the more physically demanding jobs are just not when put together only 20% of the black female population.
There is also the fact that blacks--males and females--tend to carry less fat even though they weigh more than whites.
The New York Times is not a serious source of data on anything. A seriously overrated media source--but fodder for the the pretentious white American bourgeoisie.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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The data maps above just don't support the NY Times propaganda piece. The states with the largest percentage black populations are in the South starting from South Carolina--over 30% in most cases. Yet they are only slightly above the other predominantly white states in terms of obesity percentages.
Washington D.C is a majority black region yet its obesity index is only 21%.
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"According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, blacks have 51 percent higher obesity rates than whites do."
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"Obesity" is a simply about weight, not about "fat" and "muscle". Blacks who weigh the same as whites are generally carry less fat.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Crush Black Lies: That is the fucking purpose of the article -to generate dialogue and get those very people informed and educated on the issue.
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: and are less educated on what is good to eat. Without that education we only fall back on traditional foods we know how to cook that were higher in fat but were more ok cause we needed the calories for the hard labor.
Scuse me but what was YOUR reason to post this? The only reason why you cared was to diss black women by sayin they think its beautiful to look unhealthy. Dont front and act like you now give a sh!t. And I guess the ANOREXIC beauty standard for white women today aint on the table to talk about today is it? IF that article WAS aimed to educate it did a horrible job cause it didnt talk about cheap healthy food it DIDNT really do much to educate cause it wasnt meant to. It just said "stop liking women who are fat!" Really but black men dont NEED a fat chick. Curves? Yes. Ass? YES! Fat EVERYWHERE? its not NECESSARY but we wont kill her for it. We NEED to promote things like education and cheap alternatives for poor people. More articles like that instead of your usual bullsh!t please!
Oh and where are the sources this article uses? Even if you find any the fact you took the NYTimes fact value makes you look stupid. Oh and one personal story about a woman whose lovers LEAVE her if she loses weight is ALL you need to get on about a black woman? It dont have to be the same for every black man. How many men on ES post pics of black women that are ALL fat or even majority fat? Anecdotal DEBUNKED. I mean WTF you dont even see that attitude on TV!
Posts: 2508 | From: . | Registered: Nov 2011
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: The analogous question is what percentage of white women, Hispanic women, Native American women are overweight?
The 80% number could be overblown because if womanhood begins at age 18 years then clearly 18-25 year old black women are just not 20% of the black female population. Black female athletes of all stripes, all those black female workers in the more physically demanding jobs are just not when put together only 20% of the black female population.
There is also the fact that blacks--males and females--tend to carry less fat even though they weigh more than whites.
The New York Times is not a serious source of data on anything. A seriously overrated media source--but fodder for the the pretentious white American bourgeoisie.
What more are you going to expect living in a political driven society founded and maintained by political driven people?
Posts: 535 | From: From the Darkest of the Abyss | Registered: Apr 2010
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Are you an authority on diseases? Yet you challenge them? Does that make sense? Why not defer to someone of your opinion but an authority on diseases? I have nothing more to say to you. You are fruitloop.
quote:Originally posted by lamin: Hey, I challenge anything that doesn't sound right. Is the CDC the Holy Grail? LOL.
The CDC often practicies "race science"--as bogus as Nazi science.
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You got me twisted. My motive for posting it was to inform and enlighten the readership to a real problem plaguing blacks in America. That you would take from the article that the writer wants to discourage black men from finding fat black women attractive, while providing a quote: "stop liking women who are fat!" gives me serious pause. Where does it say that in the article?
I am going to wait for your response.
quote:Originally posted by Oshun:
quote:Originally posted by Crush Black Lies: That is the fucking purpose of the article -to generate dialogue and get those very people informed and educated on the issue.
quote:Originally posted by Oshun: and are less educated on what is good to eat. Without that education we only fall back on traditional foods we know how to cook that were higher in fat but were more ok cause we needed the calories for the hard labor.
Scuse me but what was YOUR reason to post this? The only reason why you cared was to diss black women by sayin they think its beautiful to look unhealthy. Dont front and act like you now give a sh!t. And I guess the ANOREXIC beauty standard for white women today aint on the table to talk about today is it? IF that article WAS aimed to educate it did a horrible job cause it didnt talk about cheap healthy food it DIDNT really do much to educate cause it wasnt meant to. It just said "stop liking women who are fat!" Really but black men dont NEED a fat chick. Curves? Yes. Ass? YES! Fat EVERYWHERE? its not NECESSARY but we wont kill her for it. We NEED to promote things like education and cheap alternatives for poor people. More articles like that instead of your usual bullsh!t please!
Oh and where are the sources this article uses? Even if you find any the fact you took the NYTimes fact value makes you look stupid. Oh and one personal story about a woman whose lovers LEAVE her if she loses weight is ALL you need to get on about a black woman? It dont have to be the same for every black man. How many men on ES post pics of black women that are ALL fat or even majority fat? Anecdotal DEBUNKED. I mean WTF you dont even see that attitude on TV!
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The NY Times piece was not about diseases per se but about obesity--which is about caloric intake. Diabetes caused by being obese can be cured by reduction caloric intake. But again, Japanese Sumo wrestlers eat lots of rice and become heavily obese--but I doubt they are diabetic.
But let's get back to the facts. The fact is that Americans are more obese in general than other nationalities--that goes for all U.S. ethnicities.
The Times article should have compared the "obesity" indices of all the ethnicities if it were not just another propaganda by black proxy. Very transparent.
Why not a comparison with Mexican American women who tend to be just as obese and diabetes prone? Just proves my point.
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Crush Black Lies: Overweight Black women have more health complications compared with non black women. Stop obfuscating the issue!!
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol: Intersting topic, since a lot of Americans in general are obese.
Ashkenazi women and people in general have the most serious health issues in the world and mostly congenital.
quote:Originally posted by lamin: The NY Times piece was not about diseases per se but about obesity--which is about caloric intake. Diabetes caused by being obese can be cured by reduction caloric intake. But again, Japanese Sumo wrestlers eat lots of rice and become heavily obese--but I doubt they are diabetic.
But let's get back to the facts. The fact is that Americans are more obese in general than other nationalities--that goes for all U.S. ethnicities.
The Times article should have compared the "obesity" indices of all the ethnicities if it were not just another propaganda by black proxy. Very transparent.
Why not a comparison with Mexican American women who tend to be just as obese and diabetes prone? Just proves my point.
posted
The book below details how Europeans have been obsessed with ancient Egypt thru the centuries, from Greece all the way down to present.
jacket blurb “Consuming Ancient Egypt examines the influence of Ancient Egypt on the everyday lives of people, of all ages, throughout the world. It looks at the Egypt which the tourist sees, Egypt in film and Egypt as the inspiration for opera. It asks why so many books are published each year on Egyptological subjects at all levels, from the austerely academic to the riotous celebrations of Egypt as a land of mystery, enchantment and fantasy.
It then considers the ways in which Ancient Egypt interacts with the living world, in architecture, museum-going, the acquisition of souvenirs and reproductions, design, and the perpetual appeal of the mummy. The significance of Egypt as an adjunct to (and frequently the subject of) marketing in the consumer society is examined. It reveals much about Egypt's immemorial appeal and the psychology of those who succumb to its magnetism.”.
From: -- Consuming Ancient Egypt, 2003, By Sally MacDonald, and Michael Rice.
Another book notes:
quote
"Roman emperors built Egyptian gardens in their palaces. Cults based on Egyptian gods and godesses spread throughout the empire. The goddess Isis, for example, was worshipped from England to Afghanistan. Later medieval popes constructed obelisks that mimicked those of the pharaohs. Medieval doctors ground up mummies and fed them to patients in the mistaken belief that these well preserved bodies had supernational healing powers.
In the 19th century, Egyptian influence became fashionable in design and the arts. Jewelry, furniture, and an assortment of decorative objects and accents pieces were adorned with designs and images that conjured thoughts of life along the Nile. Egyptian themed (and or at least tinged) operas, plays and novels were a hit with the general public.
It seemed that the more that was revealed about ancient Egypt, the more appetite for faux relics and representations grew in America and throughout Europe. The discovery of King Tutankhamen's tomb in the early 20th century sparked yet another round of Egyptomania."
From: --Ancient Egypt: From Prehistory to the Islamic Conquest. By Educational Britannica Educational 2010
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The European obsession with Egypt extended to consuming the dead flesh of Egyptian mummies as one article notes:
"At the same time that Europeans were condemning various native peoples as cannibals, however, they were practicing a form of cannibalism themselves. Use of medicines made from blood and other human body parts was widespread in Europe through the 17th century. Europeans of the period consumed fresh blood as a cure for epilepsy and substances from various body parts to treat a variety of diseases, including arthritis, reproductive difficulties, sciatica, warts and skin blemishes. A primary source for this material was the bodies of executed criminals. Pieces of mummified human flesh imported from Egypt were considered a general panacea and were widely prescribed by the physicians of the day..[as author Beth Conklin reports]"
--Brief history of cannibal controversies David F. Salisbury. August 15, 2001
According to the book below, so obsessed were Europeans with eating the dead bodies of ancient Egyptians for healing, when Egyptian material ran short they created fake mummies out of executed European criminals, aged, poor and those dead of hideous diseases, "seasoned" them with sand, bitumen and sunlight, and then passed their flesh off as the flesh of Egyptian mummies- an early example of "pharmaceutical" fraud? Even today among European occultists, the powdered flesh of Egyptians mummies apparently can still be purchased..
Another aspect to this Europea nobsession with the Nile Valley peoples, is Mummy Mania, not only consumption of flesh but a fascination with mummies in popular European culture as documented in film, books, art etc.. On the darker side, mummy mania means that the remains of native peoples are kept in European museums like wares on display, even while generally, the remains of excavated Europeans from past are not treated in the same manner, and are reburied. The body of King Tut of Egypt is hauled around for example, but not that of European King Alfred the Great of Britain, or European Augustus Caesar of Rome. The author below notes the contradiction.
Apparently European racists themselves are into Egytomania. there is a tradition of neo-Nazi/Aryan obsession with Ancient Egypt. The Aryanists use the historical figure of Akhnaten, the "heretic" pharoah as sort of a heroic precursor of Nazism or Aryanism. Per the book below, this was developed in detail by Aryan theorist Savitri Devi, often called the mother of Nazi ideology. And there seems to be a quite active continuance of this since the 1960s per Hitler's Priestess book below.
Even Akhnaten has been pressed into service by obsessed European racists. The book below details the strange case of how one of the "blackest looking" Pharoahs, (so to speak) has been appropriated by European neo-Nazis.
Some prominent EuropeanRomans also seem to have been obsessed with Egypt as well, and were avid collectors of Egyptian artifacts.
European architects continue to be influenced by Egyptian designs. These extend not only to the usual gubment buildings and monuments but the authors below say it is also seen in utilitarian construction such as bridges, reservoirs and aqueducts.
European racist Adolf Hitler himself seemed obsessed with Egyptian queen Nefertiti, refusing to release her statute even though Nazi propaganda labeled Egyptians as degenerate, and as "non-Aryan," and therefore an inferior race. The need to court the Turks and garner Arab support led to a softening of this line. "Inferior race" statements by Nazis were massaged overseas for Arab consumption by Nazi diplomats to soothe resentment, especially since some prominent Egyptian officials began boycotting Hitler's propaganda extravaganza at the 1936 Berlin Olympics.
An "honorary white" formula was trotted out to save face over the possible boycott. Thus it was said an Egyptian would not be strictly forbidden to marry a German, although such "non-Aryan" unions would not be viewed with favor by the Reich. It was thought desirable that "non-Aryan" nations pass their own laws forbidding marriage to Germans, thus relieving Germany of the onus of having to explain her racist laws to other, lesser stocks, and easing difficulties in attempting to appeal to Arabs, Turks and other "non-Aryan" volk.
"Herman Goering, who was the premier of Prussia along with being Hitler's leading military henchman suggested to King Fouad of Egypt that Nefertiti might be sent back home, Hitler at first agreed to do so. But after he examined the statute he adamantly refused. "DO you know what I'm going to do one day? I'm going to build a new Egyptian museum in Berlin," Hitler wrote to Egypt in rejecting the request. "I dream of it. Inside I will build a chamber, crowned by a large dome. In the middle, this wonder Nefertiti will be enthroned. I will never relinquish the head of the Queen." -- Sharon Waxman. 2009. Loot: The Battle Over the Stolen Treasures of the Ancient World
-------------------- Note: I am not an "Egyptologist" as claimed by some still bitter, defeated, trolls creating fake profiles and posts elsewhere. Hapless losers, you still fail. My output of hard data debunking racist nonsense has actually INCREASED since you began.. Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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posted
And yet, revised body fat indices indicate that African American women overall may have LESS fat in key categories than others.. Thx to Truthcentric for the link...
DATA:
Differences in body-composition assumptions across ethnic groups: practical consequences.
Authors: Deurenberg P, Deurenberg-Yap M.
Journal: Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care 2001 Sep;4(5):377-83 Abstract
Body-composition methodologies rely on assumptions that are not constant across ethnic groups. The consequence is that the methods used need to be population specific to guarantee unbiased conclusions. Alternatively, assumption-free methods such as chemical multiple-compartment models or scanning techniques should be used. Adequate and unbiased scientific data on body fat among ethnic population groups are necessary for a better understanding of the aetiology of obesity and its co-morbidities. The World Health Organization cut-off points for underweight, overweight, obesity and fat distribution, now universally defined, may need revision because the relationship between body mass index and body composition, and between indices of fat distribution and the actual amount of visceral fat, differ across ethnic groups. The need for ethnically specific cut-off points for obesity and fat distribution is substantiated, for example, by elevated disease risks at low levels of body mass index in several populations. Properly designed and conducted studies are needed to obtain unbiased information on these topics.
Posts: 5905 | From: The Hammer | Registered: Aug 2008
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: The data maps above just don't support the NY Times propaganda piece. The states with the largest percentage black populations are in the South starting from South Carolina--over 30% in most cases. Yet they are only slightly above the other predominantly white states in terms of obesity percentages.
Washington D.C is a majority black region yet its obesity index is only 21%.
Maybe people haven't noticed, but the data maps are from CDC as well.
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