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Mike111
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Mike111
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(Classic Turk nose).
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Mike111
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Mike111
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Modern Saudi Arabia - How it all Started.

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Mike111
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Mike111
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Mike111
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dana marniche
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:


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Wish we know from what groups these men are from. They remind me of the early descriptions of the pure Arabs "sumra" "abyad" "akhdar" - beautiful photos by the way.

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the lioness,
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Medieval Arab genealogists divided Arabs
into three groups:
"Ancient Arabs", tribes that had vanished
or been destroyed, such as ʿĀd and Thamud, often mentioned in the Qur'an as examples
of God's power to destroy those who did not believe and follow their prophets and messengers.
"Pure Arabs" of South Arabia,
descending from Qahtan. The Qahtanites (Qahtanis) are said to have migrated from the land of Yemen
following the destruction of the Ma'rib Dam (sadd Ma'rib).
The "Arabized Arabs" (musta`ribah) of center
and North Arabia, descending from
Ishmael, the elder son of Abraham.

Genetically Arabs are defiend by
the J halpogroup.
Adnani Arabs are part of the
J2 haplogroup and Qahtani of the J1 haplogroup.

J1is found today in significant frequencies
in many areas in order near the Middle East. For example it is amongst the most frequent haplogroups
in Arabian Peninsula, and parts
of the Caucasus, Sudan and the Horn of Africa.
It is also found in somewhat
less frequencies in parts North Africa and Jews in general (especially Jews with Cohen surnames).
It can also be found much less commonly, but still occasionally in significant amounts,
in Europe and as far east as the Indian subcontinent and Central Asia.
The P58 marker which defines a
subgroup of J1, J1c3 (previously J1e) is very prevalent in many areas where J1 is common,
especially in parts of North Africa and throughout the Arabian peninsula, but notably it is not common amongst the J1 populations in the Caucasus,
and it also only makes up approximately 70% of the J1 amongst the Amhara of Ethiopia.

Haplogroup J2 is widely
believed to be associated with the spread of agriculture from Mesopotamia (Iraq and Syria).
"The main spread of J2 into the
Mediterranean area is thought
to have coincided with the expansion of agricultural people's
during the Neolithic period."
The age of J2 has been estimated
as 18,500 +/- 3,500 years ago.

Prophet Muhammad was born
into the Banu Hashim clan,
part of the Quraysh tribe of mecca. The Quraysh are Adani
of more Northern origin (haplogroup J2)
relative to the Qahtanis more Southern origin

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the lioness,
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Ibn Khaldun's Muqaddima distinguishes between sedentary Muslims who used to be nomadic Arabs and the Bedouin nomadic Arabs of the desert. He used the term "formerly-nomadic" Arabs and refers to sedentary Muslims by the region or city they lived in, as in Egyptians, Spaniards and Yemenis. The Christians of Italy and the Crusaders preferred the term Saracens for all the Arabs and Muslims of that time. The Christians of Iberia used the term Moor to describe all the Arabs and Muslims of that time. Muslims of Medina referred to the nomadic tribes of the deserts as the A'raab, and considered themselves sedentary, but were aware of their close racial bonds. The term "A'raab' mirrors the term Assyrians used to describe the closely related nomads they defeated in Syria
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Marc Washington
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.
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Mike. Beautiful, moving images.

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--------------------
The nature of homelife is the fate of the nation.

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sero
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Saudi Arabia is full of foreign laborers of all colors.

Socio-economic Impacts of Foreign Population on Saudi Cities
http://faculty.ksu.edu.sa/malga/Documents/Socioeconomic%20Impact%20of%20Foreign3.ppt

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Djehuti
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^
True. Which is why I do question many of these pictures as to whether the people really are native -- definitely the whites more so than the blacks. Since we know which group in general is indigenous and which is not.

quote:
Originally posted by the lyinass:

Medieval Arab genealogists divided Arabs
into three groups:
"Ancient Arabs", tribes that had vanished
or been destroyed, such as ʿĀd and Thamud, often mentioned in the Qur'an as examples
of God's power to destroy those who did not believe and follow their prophets and messengers.
"Pure Arabs" of South Arabia,
descending from Qahtan. The Qahtanites (Qahtanis) are said to have migrated from the land of Yemen
following the destruction of the Ma'rib Dam (sadd Ma'rib).
The "Arabized Arabs" (musta`ribah) of center
and North Arabia, descending from
Ishmael, the elder son of Abraham.

Genetically Arabs are defiend by
the J halpogroup.
Adnani Arabs are part of the
J2 haplogroup and Qahtani of the J1 haplogroup.

J1is found today in significant frequencies
in many areas in order near the Middle East. For example it is amongst the most frequent haplogroups
in Arabian Peninsula, and parts
of the Caucasus, Sudan and the Horn of Africa.
It is also found in somewhat
less frequencies in parts North Africa and Jews in general (especially Jews with Cohen surnames).
It can also be found much less commonly, but still occasionally in significant amounts,
in Europe and as far east as the Indian subcontinent and Central Asia.
The P58 marker which defines a
subgroup of J1, J1c3 (previously J1e) is very prevalent in many areas where J1 is common,
especially in parts of North Africa and throughout the Arabian peninsula, but notably it is not common amongst the J1 populations in the Caucasus,
and it also only makes up approximately 70% of the J1 amongst the Amhara of Ethiopia.

Haplogroup J2 is widely
believed to be associated with the spread of agriculture from Mesopotamia (Iraq and Syria).
"The main spread of J2 into the
Mediterranean area is thought
to have coincided with the expansion of agricultural people's
during the Neolithic period."
The age of J2 has been estimated
as 18,500 +/- 3,500 years ago.

Prophet Muhammad was born
into the Banu Hashim clan,
part of the Quraysh tribe of mecca. The Quraysh are Adani
of more Northern origin (haplogroup J2)
relative to the Qahtanis more Southern origin

We known all of this already Lyinass. Long before Dana showed up in this forum, it was a non-Arab indigenous Egyptian (Ausar) who told us years ago that that some Arabs were black and that these black types represent the original (Qahtani) Arabs. You are right about the J haplogroups, with J2 being most common in the north while J1 being most common in the south; however what Swenet and others have pointed out is that Arabs also have E3b as well as older African lineages like E2 and even underived E*. Also, the ancestor of J -- IJK-- is also found in Arabia with K found in Africa, and the ancestor of that-- F is also found in Arabia with paragroup F* found in the Sudan. This goes back to the point of Keita and others that Arabia due to its obvious geographic position is difficult to define which clades are truly Eurasian and separate from Africa.
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Mike111
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quote:
Originally posted by Djehuti:
^
True. Which is why I do question many of these pictures as to whether the people really are native -- definitely the whites more so than the blacks. Since we know which group in general is indigenous and which is not.

That is quite a bit of curious logic there my little Filipino mulatto.
Would you care to explain how Turk Albinos could possibly be indigenous to Arabia?

As a reminder, this is what indigenous means.

indigenous
: produced, growing, living, or occurring naturally in a particular region or environment.

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Djehuti
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^ Fathafucka, can you not read?? Where my post did I say or even imply that whites are indigenous to Arabia?! I suggest you read it again, carefully. [Embarrassed]
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Mike111
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True. Which is why I do question many of these pictures as to whether the people really are native -- definitely the whites more so than the blacks. Since we know which group in general is indigenous and which is not.

What - you don't even understand that which you yourself write?

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Djehuti
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^^ Of course I understand what I myself wrote, moron. YOU obviously don't, but perhaps this will make things 'easier'.

Djehuti wrote: "True. Which is why I do question many of these pictures as to whether the people really are native -- definitely the whites more so than the blacks. Since we know which group in general is indigenous and which is not."

As you can see what I question more so are the whites being native! I don't question the blacks as much because even though there are some black groups that are recent migrants, there is no doubt the indigenous populations were black also!

There, Afronutball. Does this clarify things for your warped albino obsessed mind? [Embarrassed]

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the lioness,
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike111:
Modern Saudi Arabia - How it all Started.

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How what started? The scene here is a painting that Gerome made on location in Brusa in 1883.

This scene represents the Turks circa 1883.


You say white Turks took over between the 1st and 2nd century AD.
So below we have people that according to you may have looked like the owners of this bath.

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The Ottmans, according to you had been a white "albino" empire for 1400 years before they started in the 16th century acquiring slaves from Eastern Europe via ship operated by Ottoman Barbary Corsairs as below (although they aquired Byzantine and Christian slaves in earlier periods also).
Many of the slaves were female sex slaves and the Ottomans also had male military slaves acquired through conquest.

Barbary Corsair Admiral (Pirate)  -
Hayreddin Barbarossa "red beard" , an Ottoman admiral
Years active c. 1500–1545

So we have "white" Ottoman Turks acquiring "white slaves".

Now we move up to a much later period 1883, when the above Gerome painting was made. The empire had already been in decline for quite a while. What's going on in the above Grand Bath painting?

http://www.orientalisma.com/articles/Article_Gerome_Grand_bath.html
^^^^
(excerpts)

La Grande piscine
(The Grand Bath) 1883


This splendid evocation of ladies lounging around an octagonal hot pool in a Turkish bath is set under the great dome of the caldarium in Yeni Kaplica, Bursa’s ‘New Baths’ built in 1552 from designs possibly by the Master Builder Sinan (see also lots 140 and 144 for other constructions by Sinan). Bursa had been the ancient capital of the Ottoman Empire before the conquest of Constantinople in 1453. The room is in a real building depicted as it looked during Gérôme’s lifetime, and the activities of the women are as close to everyday life as Gérôme could imagine.
Gerome: ___________________________
" During a stay in Bursa, I was taken by the architecture of the baths, and they certainly offered a chance to study nudes. It wasn’t just a question of going to see what was going on inside, and of replacing [some men by some women], I had to have a sketch of this interior; and since the temperature inside was rather high, I didn’t hesitate to sketch in the simple apparel of a beauty just aroused from her sleep—that is, in the buff."
________________________________________
The composition centres on the standing couple to the right, with the dazzling contrast of a black arm crossing a white back as a personal slave puts her arm around her unsteady mistress both in support and affection, while the pair, standing on their ornate pattens to prevent them from slipping, stops their circumnavigation of the pool.
Ruth Bernard Yeazell claims of Gérôme’s work that ‘while the half-nudity of the black figure duly contributes to the viewer’s seduction, there is no question that she is designed, in every sense of the word, to serve her fairer companion’ (Harems of the Mind, New Haven, 2000, p. 105). The African’s black arm draped around the pearly-white Circassian’s waist heightens the appeal of the model’s sensuously-poised rear.


The Circassian woman in the painting may be a Harem slave, the black people other slaves of the "albino" Ottomans of the 19th century
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Jean Léone Gérôme
Moorish Bath, 1870.

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Jean Léone Gérôme
The Bath, 1870

Circassians, Syrians and Nubians were the three primary races of females who were sold as sex slaves in the Ottoman Empire. Circassian girls were described as fair, light skinned and were frequently sent by the Circassian leaders as gifts to the Ottomans. They were the most expensive, reaching up to 500 pounds sterling and the most popular with the Turks. Second in popularity were Syrian girls, with their dark eyes, dark hair, and light brown skin, and came largely from coastal regions in Anatolia. Their price could reach up to 30 pounds sterling. They were described as having "good figures when young". Nubian girls were the cheapest and least popular, fetching up to 20 pounds sterling.Throughout the 18th and 19th centuries, female slavery was not only central to Ottoman practice but a critical component of imperial governance and elite social reproduction.Dhimmi boys taken in the devşirme could also become sexual slaves, though usually they worked in places like bathhouses (hammam) and coffeehouses. They became tellak, köçek or sāqī for as long as they were young and beardless.

______________________________

http://www.theottomans.org/english/family/harem3.asp

HAREM, AND THE OTTOMAN WOMEN

The harem was defined to be the women's quarter in a Muslim household. The Imperial harem (also known as the Seraglio harem) contained the combined households of the Valide Sultan (Queen Mother), the Sultan's favourites (hasekis), and the rest of his concubines (women whose main function was to entertain the Sultan in the bedchamber). It also contained all the Sultanas' (daughters of the Sultan) households. Many of the harem women would never see the Sultan and became the servants necessary for the daily functioning of the harem.
The reasons for harem existence can be seen from Ottoman cultural history. Ottoman tradition relied on slave concubinage along with legal marriage for reproduction. Slave concubinage was the taking of slave women for sexual reproduction. It served to emphasize the patriarchal nature of power (power being "hereditary" through sons only). Slave concubines, unlike wives, had no recognized lineage. Wives were feared to have vested interests in their own family's affairs, which would interfere with their loyalty to their husband, hence, concubines were preferred, if one could afford them. This led to the evolution of slave concubinage as an equal form of reproduction that did not carry the risks of marriage, mainly that of the potential betrayal of a wife. The powers of the harem women were exercised through their roles within the family. Although they had no legitimate claim to power, as their favour grew with the sultan, they acquired titles such as "Sultan Kadin" which solidified their notion of political power and legitimacy within the royal family was reflected with titles including "sultan."

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the lioness,
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continued

During the sixteenth century, both male and female members of the imperial family used the title of "sultan". As the role of the royal favourite concubine (title: Sultan) eroded during the seventeenth century, the title designation also changed to "kadin" or "haseki," which were names originally reserved for less prominent members of the royal family. Henceforth, only the mother of the reigning Sultan was addressed as a Sultan: the Valide Sultan. The retention of the title of Sultan for the mother indicated the power of the Valide Sultan. After all, men could take as many concubines and odalisques as they desired, but they only had one mother.

_______________________________________________________


Due to European intervention during the 19th century, the Empire began to attempt to curtail the slave trade, which had been considered legally valid under Ottoman law since the beginning of the empire.
A series of legal acts was issued that limited the slavery of white people initially and of those of all races and religions later. In 1830, a firman of Sultan Mahmud II gave freedom to white slaves. This category included the Circassians, who had the custom of selling their own children, enslaved Greeks who had revolted against the Empire in 1821, and some others. Another firman abolishing the trade of Circassian children was issued in October, 1854. A firman to the Pasha of Egypt was issued in 1857 and an order to the viziers of various local authorities in the Near East, such as the Balkans and Cyprus, in 1858, prohibited the trade of black slaves but did not order the liberation of those already enslaved.
However, slavery and the slave trade in Ottoman Empire continued for decades, as legal texts like the above were not backed by a penalty system. It was not until 1871 that a circular of July 20th of that year introduced the penalty of one years imprisonment for those who practiced the slave trade.
Many of the concubines and odalisques of the Imperial harem were reputed to be among the most beautiful of women in the Ottoman Empire. Young girls of extraordinary beauty were sent to the sultan's court, often as gifts from the governors. Numerous harem women were Circassians, Georgians, and Abkhasians. They were usually bought from slave markets after being kidnapped or else sold by impoverished parents. Many Georgian and Circassian families encouraged their daughters to enter concubinage through slavery, as that promised to be a life of luxury and comfort. All slaves that entered the harem were termed odalisques or "women of the court" - general servants in the harem. Odalisques were not usually presented to the Sultan. Those that were of extraordinary beauty and talent, were seen as potential concubines, and trained accordingly. They learned to dance, recite poetry, play musical instruments, and master the erotic arts. Only the most gifted odalisques were presented to the Sultan as his personal gedikli (maids-in-waiting). Generally, odalisques would be assigned as servants to the oda (or court) of a harem mistress. For example, the Mistress of the Robes, or the Keeper of Baths, or the Keeper of Jewels, etc.

It was possible for these odalisques to rise through the ranks of the harem hierarchy and enjoy security through their power and position.
The most powerful women in the harem were the Valide Sultan and the Kadins. The Valide Sultan was responsible for the maintenance of order and peace inside the harem. Being a female elder in the Imperial family, the Valide was expected to serve as a guide and teacher to her son by educating him about the intricacies of state politics. Often, she was asked to intervene upon the Sultan's decisions when the Mufti (head of the Muslim religion), or the Viziers (ministers) felt that the Sultan may have made an erroneous decision.

Kadin's were the Sultan's favourite women. Tradition allowed only four principal Kadins but unlimited number of concubines. Kadins were equivalent in rank to that of a legal wife, and were given apartments, slaves, and eunuchs. For example, during the reign of Selim II (the Sot), his favourite, the bas kadin Nurbanu had an entourage of one hundred and fifty ladies-in-waiting. The amount of properties, clothing, jewelry, and allowances given, was all-proportional to the affection the Sultan held for them.

Odalisques were at the bottom of the harem hierarchy. They were considered to be general servants in the harem. They were not usually seen to be beautiful enough to become presented to the Sultan. Odalisques that were seen as potential candidates for concubinage were trained to become talented entertainers. The greatest honour a Sultan could bestow upon a male guest was to present him with an odalisque from his court who had not yet become his concubine. These women were greatly coveted as they were beautiful and talented, and what is more important, had links into the harem hierarchy.

Concubines could be considered an equivalent to the modern version of a "one night stand". They were odalisques that were presented to the Sultan and after that one night, they might never see the Sultan again unless the girl became pregnant with a male child. If she was successful in birthing a male child, then she would become an ikbal (favourite) to the Sultan. The female hierarchy followed the pattern of odalisques (virgins), concubines ("one night stands"), ikbals (favourites), and kadins (favourites "wives").
harem women formed only half of the harem hierarchy. Eunuchs were the integral other half of the harem. Eunuchs were considered to be less than men and thus unable to be "tempted" by the harem women and would remain solely loyal to the Sultan. Eunuchs were castrated men and hence possessed no threat to the sanctity of the harem.

According to Muslim tradition, no man could lay his eyes on another man's harem, thus someone less than a man was required for the role of watchful guardianship over the harem women. Eunuchs tended to be male prisoners of war or slaves, castrated before puberty and condemned to a life of servitude.
White eunuchs were first provided from the conquered Christian areas of Circassia, Georgia, and Armenia. They were also culled from Hungarian, Slavonian, and German prisoners of war. These white eunuchs were captured during the conflicts that arouse between the Ottoman Empire and the Balkan countries. Black eunuchs were captured from Egypt, Abyssinia and the Sudan. Black slaves were captured from the upper Nile and transported to markets on the Mediterranean Sea - Mecca, Medina, Beirut, Izmir and Istanbul. All eunuchs were castrated enroute to the markets by Egyptian Christians or Jews, as Islam prohibited the practice of castration but not the usage of castrated slaves.

There were several different varieties of eunuchs:
Sandali, or clean-shaven: The parts are swept off by a single cut of a razor, a tube (tin or wooden) is set in the urethra, the wound is cauterized with boiling oil, and the patient is planted in a fresh dung-hill. His diet is milk, and if under puberty he often survives.

The eunuch whose penis is removed: He retains all the power of copulation and procreation without the wherewithal; and this, since the discovery of caoutchouc, has often been supplied.
The eunuch, or classical thlibias and semivir, who has been rendered sexless by the removing of the testicles..., or by their being bruised..., twisted, seared or bandaged.

Black eunuchs tended to be of the first category: Sandali, while white eunuchs were of the second or third categories, thus have part or their entire penis intact. Because of their lack of parts, black eunuchs served in the harem, while white eunuchs served in the government (and away from the women). At the height of the Ottoman Empire, as many as six to eight hundred eunuchs served within the Seraglio (palace). Most eunuchs arrived as gifts from governors of different provinces. At the end of their training as young eunuch pages, eunuchs were assigned to service. White eunuchs were placed under the patronage of various government officials or even into the service of the Sultan himself (like in Topkapi Palace). If they were black eunuchs, they were placed into the service of a harem personage, such as a Kadin, or a daughter or sister of the Sultan. They could also serve under the Kizlar Agha (master of the girls), the Chief Black Eunuch.

The Chief Black Eunuch (Kizlar Agha)

The Kizlar Agha was the third highest-ranking officer of the empire, after the Sultan and the Grand Vizier (Chief Minister). He was the commander of the baltaci corps (or halberdiers - part of the imperial army). His position was a pasha (general) of three tails (tails referring to peacock tails, and the most number of tails permitted being four and worn by the Sultan). He could approach the Sultan at any time, and functioned as the private messenger between the Sultan and the Grand Vizier. He was the most important link between the Sultan and the Valide Sultan (mother of the sultan).

The Kizlar Agha led the new odalisque to the Sultan's bedchamber, and was the only "man" who could enter the harem should there have been any nocturnal emergencies. His duties were to protect the women, to provide and purchase the necessary odalisques for the harem, to oversee the promotion of the women (usually after the death of a higher-ranking kadin) and eunuchs. He acted as a witness for the Sultan's marriage, birth ceremonies, and arranged all the royal ceremonial events, such as circumcision parties, weddings, and fêtes. He also delivered sentence to harem women accused of crimes, taking the guilty women to the executioner to be placed into sacks and drowned in the Bosphorus which lay outside the Topkapi Palace.

The Chief White Eunuch (Kapi Agha)

The Chief White Eunuch was the head of the Inner Service (which is the palace bureaucracy) and the head of the Palace School (school for white eunuchs). He was also Gatekeeper-in-Chief, head of the infirmary, and master of ceremonies of the Seraglio. The Kapi Agha controlled all messages, petitions, and State documents addressed to the Sultan, and was allowed to speak to the Sultan in person. In 1591, Murad III transferred the powers from the white to the black eunuchs as there were too many embezzlements and various other nefarious crimes being attributed to the white eunuchs, among them being purported intimacy with the harem women.

. The Kapi Agha's loss of powers was seen through the decreasing of his ceremonial duties (which had various stipends entailed) and the decrease in his overall income. Originally, the Kapi Agha was the only eunuch allowed to speak to the Sultan alone, but as his importance decreased, the Valide Sultan and the Kizlar Agha were able to request private audience with the Sultan also. Because of their possible disloyalty, white eunuchs were assigned positions that did not bring them into contact with the harem women as many of them had incomplete castrations (still possessing of their penis). The total number of white eunuchs in the Seraglio at any given time was between 300 and 900.

In the late sixteen hundreds, the power of the black eunuchs grew. During the Kadinlar Sultanati, the eunuchs increased their political leverage by taking advantage of child Sultans or mentally incompetent ones. It was during this period of enthronement of child Sultans that caused political instability. The young teenage Sultans were "guided" by regencies formed by the Valide Sultan, the Grand Vizier and the Valides other supporters. The Kizlar Agha was the Valide Sultan's and the Kadin's intimate and value accomplice

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From the chronological point of view, the next event to be discussed should be the conversion of the Khazars to Judaism, around AD 740. But to see that remarkable event in its proper perspective, one should have at least some sketchy idea of the habits, customs and everyday life among the Khazars prior to the conversion.

Here is the travelogue by an observant Arab traveller, Ibn Fadlan, who – like Priscus – was a member of a diplomatic mission from a civilized court to the Barbarians of the North.

The court was that of the Caliph al Muktadir, and the diplomatic mission travelled from Baghdad through Persia and Bukhara to the land of the Volga Bulgars. The official pretext for this grandiose expedition was a letter of invitation from the Bulgar king, who asked the Caliph (a) for religious instructors to convert his people to Islam, and (b) to build him a fortress which would enable him to defy his overlord, the King of the Khazars. The invitation – which was no doubt prearranged by earlier diplomatic contacts – also provided an opportunity to create goodwill among the various Turkish tribes inhabiting territories through which the mission had to pass, by preaching the message of the Koran and distributing huge amounts of gold bakhshish.

The opening paragraphs of our traveller's account read (The following quotations are based on Zeki Validi Togan's German translation of the Arabic text and the English translation of extracts by Blake and Frye, both slightly paraphrased in the interest of readability):

The letter of the King of the Bulgars reached the Commander of the Faithful, al Muktadir; he asked him therein to send him someone to give him religious instruction and acquaint him with the laws of Islam, to build him a mosque and a pulpit so that he may carry out his mission of converting the people all over his country; he also entreated the Caliph to build him a fortress to defend him- self against hostile kings (i.e., as later passages show, the King of the Khazars). Everything that the King asked for was granted by the Caliph. I was chosen to read the Caliph's message to the King, to hand over the gifts the Caliph sent him, and to supervise the work of the teachers and interpreters of the Law . . . (There follow some details about the financing of the mission and
names of participants.] And so we started on Thursday the 11th Safar of the year 309 [June 21, AD 921) from the City of Peace [Baghdad, capital of the Caliphate].


The following episode also occurred in the country of the powerful Ghuzz Turks, who paid tribute to the Khazars and, according to some sources, were closely related to them:

The next morning one of the Turks met us. He was ugly in build, dirty in appear- ance, contemptible in manners, base in nature; and we were moving through a heavy rain. Then he said: "Halt." Then the whole caravan of 3000 animals and 5000 men halted. Then he said: "Not a single one of you is allowed to go on."
We halted then, obeying his orders. (Obviously the leaders of the great caravan had to avoid at all costs a conflict with the Ghuzz tribesmen). Then we said to him: "We are friends of the Kudarkin [Viceroy]". He began to laugh and said:
"Who is the Kudarkin? I **** on his beard." Then he said: "Bread." I gave him a few loaves of bread. He took them and said: "Continue your journey; I have taken pity on you."


The sexual mores of the Ghuzz – and other tribes – were a remarkable mixture of liberalism and savagery:

Their women wear no veils in the presence of their men or strangers. Nor do the women cover any parts of their bodies in the presence of people. One day we stayed at the place of a Ghuzz and were sitting around; his wife was also present.
As we conversed, the woman uncovered her private parts and scratched them, and we all saw it.

Thereupon we covered our faces and said: “May God forgive me.” The husband laughed and said to the interpreter: “Tell them we uncover it in your presence so that you may see and restrain your- selves; but it cannot be attained. This is better than when it is covered up and yet attainable.” Adultery is alien to them; yet when they discover that someone is an adulterer they split him in two halves. This they do by bringing together the branches of two trees, tie him to the branches and then let both trees go, so that the man tied to them is torn in two.


Accustomed to the splendid baths of Baghdad, our traveller could not get over the dirtiness of the Turks. “The Ghuzz do not wash themselves after defacating or urinating, nor do they bathe after seminal pollution or on other occasions.
They refuse to have anything to do with water, particularly in winter . . .”.
When the Ghuzz commander-in-chief took off his luxurious coat of brocade to don a new coat the mission had brought him, they saw that his under
clothes were “fraying apart from dirt, for it is their custom never to take off the garment they
wear close to their bodies until it disintegrates”. Another Turkish tribe, the Bashkirs, “shave their beards and eat their lice. They search the folds of their undergarments and crack the lice with their teeth”. When Ibn Fadlan watched a Bashkir do this, the latter remarked to him:
“They are delicious”.
All in all, it is not an engaging picture. Our fastidious traveller's contempt for the barbarians
was profound. But it was only aroused by their uncleanliness and what he considered as indecent exposure of the body; the savagery of their punishments and sacrificial rites leave him quite indifferent. Thus he describes the Bulgars' punishment for manslaughter with detached interest, without his otherwise frequent expressions of indignation: "They make for him [the delinquent] a box of birchwood, put him inside, nail the lid on the box, put three loaves of bread and a can of water beside it, and suspend the box between two tall poles, saying: "We have put him between heaven and earth, that he may be exposed to the sun and the rain, and
that the deity may perhaps forgive him." And so he remains suspended until time lets him decay and the winds blow him away."
He also describes, with similar aloofness, the funeral sacrifice of hundreds of horses and herds of other animals, and the gruesome ritual killing of a Rus (Rus: the Viking founders of the early Russian settlements – see below, Chapter III.) slave girl at her master's bier.
About pagan religions he has little to say. But the Bashkirs' phallus cult arouses his inter-
est, for he asks through his interpreter one of the natives the reason for his worshipping a
wooden penis, and notes down his reply: "Because I issued from something similar and know of no other creator who made me." He then adds that 'some of them [the Bashkirs] believe in twelve deities, a god for winter, another for summer, one for the rain, one for the wind, one for the trees, one for men, one for the horse, one for water, one for the night, one for the day, a god of death and one for the earth; while that god who dwells in the sky is the greatest among them, but takes counsel with the others and thus all are contented with each other's doings.
. . We have seen a group among them which worships snakes, and a group which worships fish, and a group which worships cranes . . ."
Among the Volga Bulgars, Ibn Fadlan found a strange custom:

When they observe a man who excels through quickwittedness and knowledge, they say: "for this one it is more befitting to serve our Lord." They seize him, put a rope round his neck and hang him on a tree where he is left until he rots away.
Ibn Fadlan describes not the simple murder of too-clever people, but one of their pagan customs: human sacrifice, by which the most excellent among men were offered as sacrifice to God. This ceremony was probably not carried out by
common Bulgars, but by their Tabibs, or medicine men, i.e. their shamans, whose equivalents among the Bulgars and the Rus also wielded power of life
and death over the people, in the name of their cult. According to Ibn Rusta, the medicine men of the Rus could put a rope round the neck of anybody and hang him on a tree to invoke the mercy of God. When this was done, they said:
"This is an offering to God."


We shall see that human sacrifice was also practised by the Khazars – including the ritual
killing of the king at the end of his reign. We may assume that many other similarities existed
between the customs of the tribes described by Ibn Fadlan and those of the Khazars.
Unfortunately he was debarred from visiting the Khazar capital and had to rely on information
collected in territories under Khazar dominion, and particularly at the Bulgar court.

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quote:
Originally posted by IronLion:
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http://www.facebook.com/pages/Prince-Mohammed-bin-Salman-bin-Abdulaziz-Al-Saud/212061862161164

This speaks volumes. [Wink]
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