posted
Below is Ebih-Il, the Superintendent of Mari 2400 BC Mari,( Middle Euphrates): Temple of Ishtar but Clyde left his name out. Clyde says he is Gutian (from Iran). The Gutians took over Sumer for about 100 years around 2150 BC. Clyde says that because his had position he thinks is different than in the Gudea statue that means he's Gutian. . It's just something he made up.You will find that in no book
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
Gutian
Sumerian
Note the difference in handshake between the Gutian and the Sumerian.
Sumerians noted that the Gutians:
"They are not classed among people, not reckoned as part of the land Gutian people who know no inhibitions, With human intelligence but canine instinct and monkey's features"
.
A few meters away from Ebih-Il (the Superintendent of Mari) the statue of King Lamgi-Mari was found
All we need do is see if his name is on the Gutian king' list and find that it is not
King Lamgi-Mari
^^ he's not a Gutian but like Ebih-Il, they boith have long straight haired beards. come on Clyde stop perpetrating
^^ Of the 26 stautes of Gudea Clyde prefers this one that has the tip of the nose broken off so it looks flatter and it's a side view.
. who in their right minds thinks this is a black dude?
Another Mari Sumerian king, not a Gutian, not on the list, note the beard Iku-shamagan, (local king in Mari.) Detail of 08-02-08/8. Steatit statuette (2650 BCE) Early dynastic period II, from the temple of Ishtar at Mari, Syria
The city flourished from about 2900 BC, since it was strategically important as a relay point between the Sumerian cities of lower Mesopotamia and the cities of northern Syria. Sumer required building materials such as timber and stone from northern Syria, and these materials had to go through Mari to get to Sumer.
The Sumerian King List (SKL) records a dynasty of six kings from Mari enjoying hegemony between Adab and Kish, ca. 25th c. BC. Several names of kings from this period, including those from the kings' list, are also known from correspondence found elsewhere, including Ebla.
so much for Clyde's hand position theory
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"Gudea - Patron of Neo-Sumerian Renaissance Gudea (ca 2142-2122 BC), ensi of Lagash, inaugurated the Sumerian renaissance and ruled Ur on behalf of the Gutian kings. His name itself indicates he was a Gutian. Such a view is not far-fetched, for personal names often indicate the provenance of its bearer. Thus, the personal name Francais is common amongst French-men, while Scott is popular amongst Scotsmen, and von Dachau in Germany indicate ancestry from Dachau. Thus, Gudea can be identified as a Gutian based on his name. Moreover, if he was not a Gutian, it defies comprehension as to why a Sumerian viceroy should choose a name which would lead to him being later on confused with the Gutian invaders. The most logical conclusion is that Gudea himself was likely a Gutian." The glorious Gutians Historic Kurdistan as ancient Gutium Samar Abbas March 24, 2005 iranian.com
So Clyde you may have it backwards.Note the following dates carefully>
Ebih-Il, the Superintendent of Mari is the sculpture you posted 2400 BC
Gutian dynasty 2150-2050 BC
Gudea 2144 - 2124 BC
^^^ See some historians attach Gudea to the end of the Gutians
These bearded folk for sure are the earlier Mari kings and officials, not the Gutians. This is why that other areticle refers to Gudea as "Neo-Sumerian" Gutian
wiki:
The Gutian dynasty came to power in Mesopotamia around 2150 BC (short chronology), by destabilising Akkad, according to the Sumerian kinglist at the end of the reign of king Ur-Utu (or Lugal-melem) of Uruk. They reigned for perhaps around one century (copies of the kinglist vary between 25 and 124 years; 91 years is often quoted as probable). The dynasty was succeeded by the 3rd dynasty of Ur. The Gutian people (Guti) were native to Gutium, presumably in the central Zagros Mountains, though almost nothing is known about their origins.
The Gutians practiced hit-and-run tactics, and would be long gone by the time regular troops could arrive to deal with the situation. Their raids crippled the economy of Sumer. Travel became unsafe, as did work in the fields, resulting in famine.
The Sumerian king list indicates that king Ur-Utu of Uruk was defeated by the barbarian Guti, perhaps around 2150 BC. The Guti swept down, defeated the demoralized Akkadian army, took Akkad, and destroyed it around 2115 BC. However, they did not supplant all of Akkad, as several independent city states remained alongside them, including Lagash, where a local dynasty still thrived and left numerous textual and archaeological remains.[1]
Ultimately Akkad was so thoroughly destroyed that its site is still not known. The Guti proved to be poor rulers. Under their crude rule, prosperity declined. They were too unaccustomed to the complexities of civilization to organize matters properly, particularly in connection with the canal network. This was allowed to sink into disrepair, with famine and death resulting. Thus, a short "dark age" swept over Mesopotamia.
Akkad bore the brunt of this as the center of the Empire, so that it was in Akkad that the Guti established their own center in place of the destroyed Akkad. Some of the Sumerian cities in the south took advantage of the distance and purchased a certain amount of self-government by paying tribute to the new rulers.
Uruk was thus able to develop a 5th dynasty. Even in the city of Akkad itself, a local dynasty was said to have ruled.[2] The best known Sumerian ruler of the Gutian period was the ensi of Lagash, Gudea. Under him, ca. 2075 BC (short), Lagash had a golden age.
After a few kings, the Gutian rulers became more cultured. Guti rule lasted only about a century - around 2050 BC, they were expelled from Mesopotamia by the rulers of Uruk and Ur, when Utu-hengal of Uruk defeated Gutian king Tirigan. Utu-hengal's victory revived the political and economic life of southern Sumer.
Posts: 43007 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Below is Ebih-Il, the Superintendent of Mari 2400 BC Mari,( Middle Euphrates): Temple of Ishtar but Clyde left his name out. Clyde says he is Gutian (from Iran). The Gutians took over Sumer for about 100 years around 2150 BC. Clyde says that because his had position he thinks is different than in the Gudea statue that means he's Gutian. . It's just something he made up.You will find that in no book
.
A few meters away from Ebih-Il (the Superintendent of Mari) the statue of King Lamgi-Mari was found
All we need do is see if his name is on the Gutian king' list and find that it is not
King Lamgi-Mari
^^ he's not a Gutian but like Ebih-Il, they boith have long straight haired beards. come on Clyde stop perpetrating
^^ Of the 26 stautes of Gudea Clyde prefers this one that has the tip of the nose broken off so it looks flatter and it's a side view.
. who in their right minds thinks this is a black dude?
Another Mari Sumerian king, not a Gutian, not on the list, note the beard Iku-shamagan, King of Mari. Detail of 08-02-08/8. Steatit statuette (2650 BCE) Early dynastic period II, from the temple of Ishtar at Mari, Syria
The city flourished from about 2900 BC, since it was strategically important as a relay point between the Sumerian cities of lower Mesopotamia and the cities of northern Syria. Sumer required building materials such as timber and stone from northern Syria, and these materials had to go through Mari to get to Sumer.
The Sumerian King List (SKL) records a dynasty of six kings from Mari enjoying hegemony between Adab and Kish, ca. 25th c. BC. Several names of kings from this period, including those from the kings' list, are also known from correspondence found elsewhere, including Ebla.
so much for Clyde's hand position theory
. Mari was not a Sumerian city. There are NO Gutians mentioned in the Sumerian King List.Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
^^^ Cylde please delete that, we see my post all that is need is your comment, not a giant repeat of my post, thanks
Posts: 43007 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Many Gudea statues have had the heads replaced so the figures resemble Europeans. Look at the neck of the statue please not that the head has been replaced.
This is a fake. Look at the head on the statue you can clearly see that it was added on to the statue.
But you will clearly note the original handshake of the Sumerians.
. [/QB]
often ancient statues are found where the head has been broken off the body by vandals. Later museums reattach the heads. Prove with documentation that the head was never found and was fabricated in modern times from nothing. stop the nonsense.
Also the Sumerian kings list does not list all Mari kings and some were kings of smaller localities but it does have a Mari Dynasty as follows:
Anbu 30 years ca. 25th century BC Anba "the son of Anbu" 17 years Bazi "the leatherworker" 30 years Zizi of Mari "the fuller" 20 years Limer "the 'gudug' priest" 30 years Sharrum-iter 9 years
Guess what, GUDEA IS NOT ON THE SUMERIAN KINGS LIST he was a Lagash king, not a Sumerian king and comes at the end of the Gutian period
posted
I don't mean to divide an conquer here but there is a major discrepancy here between Clydes and Mike's view of Gudea. Clyde says he was a Sumerian and Mike's view he was a Gutian.
Then there's the lioness' more accurate view, he was a king of Lagash
Posts: 43007 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: I don't mean to divide an conquer here but there is a major discrepancy here between Clydes and Mike's view of Gudea. Clyde says he was a Sumerian and Mike's view he was a Gutian.
Then there's the lioness' more accurate view, he was a king of Lagash
There is no division. The origins of Gudea are a mystery.Researchers do not believe he originated in Lagash. He was probably a Sumerian, since the earlier rulers of Lagash were Gutians.
It also important to remember that researchers do not have to agree on every particular thing.
But we agree on ONE major fact, The Sumerians were not European or contemporary Syrian type.
Hey lioness these people here are ELAMITES aka EAST INDIAN PEOPLE they are not whites
East Indian Family
notice this is a REAL artifact notice the thick woolly hair on the statues
look at this Summerian couple these people look like East indian people here are more dark skin east indian people of the East
Seal Of Ibni-sharrum the scribe of King Sharkali-sharri
now these are white people lioness EDOMITES The Chinese called these people Yuezhi or "moon clan", from yuè (?), "moon" and shì (?), "clan" or "race WHITE PEOPLE or RED PEOPLE
Head of a Yue-Zhi or Yue-Chi warrior,
The Yuezhi may have been a Europoid people, as indicated by the portraits of their kings on the coins they struck following their exodus to Transoxiana (2nd-1st century BCE), some old place names in Gansu explainable in Tocharian languages,[22] and especially the coins they struck in India as Kushans (1st-3rd century CE).
Ancient Chinese sources do describe the existence of "white people with long hair" (the Bai people of the Shan Hai Jing) beyond their northwestern border.
Very well preserved Tarim mummies with Europoid features (light hair and eyes) and dominated by the Europe-born Haplogroup R1a1a (Y-DNA), today displayed at the Ürümqi Museum and dated to the 3rd century BCE, were found at the ancient oasis on the Silk Road, Niya.
These Are Edomites aka White people
this is also an interesting comment by H.G Wells about the Edomites and their migrations
Quote - "H. G. Wells, in his classic work OUTLINE OF HISTORY verifies that millenniums ago the Edomites became "Jews." But then he goes on and gives us another trail to follow in correctly identifying the people today "who call themselves Jews." He says that these "Idumeans" joined with a "Turkish" people of Southern Russia (the Khazars), who also "became Jews," and BOTH make up the present day "Jews." Mr. Wells concludes, "The main part of Jewry NEVER WAS IN JUDEA AND HAD NEVER COME OUT OF JUDEA!"
posted
TRUTHHITMAN that picture is way too big, there are ways of reuducing it. It's messing up the thread
Posts: 43007 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Nontruthhitman will you please take your Anti-White, White people hating, Kill Whitey, BHI crap elsewhere you dumbass. White people are NOT Edomites we do not descend from Esau and you are NO Israelite either. Leave God out of your Anti-White hatred boy. Curses be upon you, may you soon join your father satan in the pits of hell for blaspheming the name of the lord.
Posts: 3257 | From: Madisonville, KY USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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stop making up stuff, this is Sumerian form IRAQ before Gutian period
Votive Statues, from the Temple of Abu, Tell Asmar IRAQ c.2500 BC, limestone, shell, and gypsum
False. The dates for these statues are made up dates. To make it appear that the Mesopotamian civilization is older than Egypt, archaeologists provide made up, not radiocarbon dates.
a disk of fired clay discovered in 1908 from the Minoan palace of Phaistos on the Greek island of Crete, possibly dating to the middle or late Minoan Bronze Age (2nd millennium BC). It is about 15 cm (5.9 in) in diameter and covered on both sides with a spiral of stamped symbols. Its purpose and meaning, and even its original geographical place of manufacture, remain disputed, making it one of the most famous mysteries of archaeology. Attempts at decipherment are generally thought to be unlikely to succeed unless more examples of the signs are found, as it is generally agreed that there is not enough context available for a meaningful analysis. Although the Phaistos Disc is generally accepted as authentic by archaeologists, a few scholars believe that the disc is a forgery or a hoax.
The author Kevin James is so obscure he is not even listed in a list of 27 authors, as recent as 2010, who have written about the Phaistos Disc.
But I guess if something is in a book it must be true
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: .
SYRIANS
Back to the drawing table.....
Identifying Genetic Traces of Historical Expansions:
Phoenician Footprints in the Mediterranean
Pierre A. Zalloua, Daniel E. Platt, Mirvat El Sibai, Jade Khalife, Nadine Makhoul, Marc Haber, Yali Xue, Hassan Izaabel, Elena Bosch, Susan M. Adams, Eduardo Arroyo, Ana María López-Parra, Mercedes Aler, Antònia Picornell, Misericordia Ramon, Mark A. Jobling, David Comas, Jaume Bertranpetit, R. Spencer Wells, Chris Tyler-Smith, and The Genographic Consortium
Table S1. Haplogroups and Haplotypes of New Populations Sampled for this Study
quote:Originally posted by Troll Patrol aka Ish Gebor: So, where is the "blackhead", because I don't see it?
The “Standard of Ur” is a small trapezoidal box (8.5 Inches high by 19.5 Inches long) whose two sides and end panels are covered with figurative and geometric mosaics made of pieces of shell, lapis lazuli, and red limestone set into bitumen. It was found in PG779 near a soldier whom Woolley thought had carried it on a long pole as the royal emblem of a king. Although it is more likely to have been the sound box for a musical instrument.
The people are made of Shell, the background is made of lapis lazuli (the blue stone), the Diamonds in the border are made of red limestone.
Figures made of Shell or Ivory cannot depict color. The material is White, thus everything depicted with it will be white.
That seems like a logical explanation.
Posts: 22246 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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