posted
They are in reality, Greek Eurasian invaders. They look nothing like the Ancient Egyptians like say, the Horners or the Nilo-Saharan speaking populations of Africa. The Copts of Egypt claiming Pharoanic ancestry is just as bad as the Arab Muslim population claiming Ancient Egypt.
My 7th grade teacher was a Coptic immigrant from Egypt but at first I thought she was from the middle east or somewhere like Pakistan. I was surprised to learn she was from Egypt, or even a Copt at the most.
The point is, Coptic people are not merely a "mulattoid" population of the original ancient Egyptians and invaders. They are simply invaders and the new frauds of Ancient Egyptians. The modern day Nubians are much closer than they are.
And if there is any ancient genetic influence of the Egyptians present in the Copts, it most certainly was the other way around, with them being originally Greek or Turkish and absorbing African dna. They most likely represent the earliest invaders who settled foot into Egypt.
Posts: 33 | From: U.S. | Registered: Jun 2010
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The Akhenaten Gene. Named for the pharaoh who attempted to convert Egypt to monotheism, this autosomal ancestry marker like most of the Amarna family group’s DNA is clearly African in origin. Akhenaten received it from his mother, Queen Tiye. It is most common today in Copts, the successors to the ancient Egyptians. The ancient marker makes a good showing in the Middle East and parts of southern Europe close to Africa, such as southern Italy and Spain. But it is mostly absent in Asia and the Americas, except where brought there by Africans or people carrying some African ancestry. About 1 in 6 Africans or African Americans has it. - See more at: http://dnaconsultants.com/rare-genes-from-history#sthash.p4gL3o0Q.dpuf
The Egyptian Gene. Although not carried in the royal mummies whose DNA has been studied so far, this autosomal ancestry marker is also clearly African in origin and enjoys its greatest spread in Egyptians. Quite rare worldwide, it is found in about 1 in 10 Copts, today’s successors to the ancient Egyptians. Less than one percent of European Americans have it, while African Americans preserve it at a rate of three times that of their white neighbors. Oddly, East Coast Indians and Melungeons have it at elevated levels. It is hardly noticeable in Asia, suggesting that it did not form a significant part of the Great Migration of Humanity out of Africa about 100,000 years ago but spread to Eurasian populations primarily from Egypt and the Middle East in historical times. - See more at: http://dnaconsultants.com/rare-genes-from-history#sthash.p4gL3o0Q.dpuf
Akhenaten with blue crown Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Don't ~15% of Egyptian Copts have Haplogroup B according to Hassan 2008? That would lend support to the hypothesis that there's some latent indigenous Egyptian ancestry in certain Copts at least.
posted
But where are the cultural remnants of Ancient Egypt present in the Copts as opposed to sub-saharan Africans?
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posted
They are descendents of the Ancient Egyptians, only they've mixed with Greek and Circassian populations over the years, giving them a wide variety of phenotypes.
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posted
The autosomal STR alleles of the 18th and 20th dynasty royal mummies didn't match the Copts in the DNA Tribes database in a particular manner(http://www.dnatribes.com/pops-africa.html).
The autosomal DNA of those mummies mostly matched Great Lakes, Southern and Western Africans. Also confirmed by the BMJ study itself which identify Ramses III as being E1b1a using autosomal STR allele values. Probably the same ones used by DNA Tribes. E1b1a is common in the same genetic regions identified by DNA Tribes as a their closest modern relatives. Imo, Ancient Egyptians are related to other Africans through shared ancestors predating the formation of the Ancient Egyptian state (postdating the main OOA migration). The Nile Valley is one of the many location Africans migrated to during the dessication of the Sahara in search of greener pastures. Other locations include West Africa, the Great Lakes and eventually Southern Africa. Said in another way, Ancient Egyptians and other modern African populations are descendants of the same people who used to live in Eastern Africa (maybe around the Sudan region) and the Green Sahara.
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quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: The autosomal STR alleles of the 18th and 20th dynasty royal mummies didn't match the Copts in the DNA Tribes database in a particular manner(http://www.dnatribes.com/pops-africa.html).
The autosomal DNA of those mummies mostly matched Great Lakes, Southern and Western Africans. Also confirmed by the BMJ study itself which identify Ramses III as being E1b1a using autosomal STR allele values. Probably the same ones used by DNA Tribes. E1b1a is common in the same genetic regions identified by DNA Tribes as a their closest modern relatives. Imo, Ancient Egyptians are related to other Africans through shared ancestors predating the formation of the Ancient Egyptian state (postdating the main OOA migration). The Nile Valley is one of the many location Africans migrated to during the dessication of the Sahara in search of greener pastures. Other locations include West Africa, the Great Lakes and eventually Southern Africa. Said in another way, Ancient Egyptians and other modern African populations are descendants of the same people who used to live in Eastern Africa (maybe around the Sudan region) and the Green Sahara.
DNA TRibes is a private company that didn't publish their methods or have their conclusions peer reviewed.
DNA Consultants is a similar company they said there is strong affinity between Copts and ancient Amarna DNA based on JAMA data
Posts: 42921 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
If all those lite skinned folks got just one drop of ancient kemetic blood in them then they are decedents of their much darker ancestors no matter what or who they appears to be.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: If all those lite skinned folks got just one drop of ancient kemetic blood in them then they are decedents of their much darker ancestors no matter what or who they appears to be.
That sounds like what those White people in the U.S. who claim to be Indians say.
But if 1/8 makes you an Indian.
Then what does 7/8 make you?
Ya, when you see it written out, the true stupidity of it comes out.
Those White/mulatto people calling themselves Copts are likely White Greeks/Romans/Turks.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
BTW - As to the NONSENSE suggestion that Copts are somehow the guardians of ancient Egypt culture, please take note:
Copts are not, and never were, guardians of Egypt.
From an article called: "Christians’ Gift to Mohammed."
In 627 CE, when Mohammed, the Islam founder, consolidated his power in the Arab Peninsula, and felt himself strong enough to challenge the submission of the rulers of the world to Islam, his new religion, he caused letters to be written to several neighboring rulers, including letters to George, wrongly called the Mukaukas, governor of Alexandria and the Melkite Viceroy of Egypt (621-631); to Chosroes, King of Persia; and to Heraclius, Emperor of the Romans. All contained the same claim of allegiance to Islam and to the Arabian prophet as Vicegerent of the Most High.
The Monophysites, who never had any loyalty to their host country of Egypt, manifested such disloyalty when the Christian Viceroy of Egypt promised to consider the message, and treated Mohammed’s envoy, Hatib, with all honor. The Christian Viceroy sent back with his reply some valuable presents, which included two Christian maidens (Mary and Shirin), the mule Duldul, the ass Nafur, and a bag of money.
Mohammed, who already had nine wives, fell in love with Mary. The Christian Mary became Mohammed’s sweetheart and bore him a son. The baby died under suspicious circumstances. Mary died in 636 CE.
In December 639 CE, Amr ibn el-As set out to conquer Egypt with a few thousand men. His task was relatively simple, because of the active support of the Christian Monophysites, the so-called Copts.
After less than two years of fights and political maneuvering between the Arab invaders and the Byzantines, Cyrus went to meet the Arab commander at Babylon near Cairo, and both signed a treaty on November 8, 641, which called for the total withdrawal of Roman soldiers, imposing a tribute of two dinars a head on all able-bodied males, and a tax on all landowners. The only parties to the treaty were the Moslem Arabs and the Christians, who passed along a country that was not theirs.Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Ha!Ha! Ha! Logic trumps delusion any day.. They are Indian and Black when there is something to be gained. Whores!
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by Brada-Anansi: If all those lite skinned folks got just one drop of ancient kemetic blood in them then they are decedents of their much darker ancestors no matter what or who they appears to be.
That sounds like what those White people in the U.S. who claim to be Indians say.
But if 1/8 makes you an Indian.
Then what does 7/8 make you?
Ya, when you see it written out, the true stupidity of it comes out.
Those White/mulatto people calling themselves Copts are likely White Greeks/Romans/Turks.
Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Amun-Ra The Ultimate: The autosomal STR alleles of the 18th and 20th dynasty royal mummies didn't match the Copts in the DNA Tribes database in a particular manner(http://www.dnatribes.com/pops-africa.html).
The autosomal DNA of those mummies mostly matched Great Lakes, Southern and Western Africans. Also confirmed by the BMJ study itself which identify Ramses III as being E1b1a using autosomal STR allele values. Probably the same ones used by DNA Tribes. E1b1a is common in the same genetic regions identified by DNA Tribes as a their closest modern relatives. Imo, Ancient Egyptians are related to other Africans through shared ancestors predating the formation of the Ancient Egyptian state (postdating the main OOA migration). The Nile Valley is one of the many location Africans migrated to during the dessication of the Sahara in search of greener pastures. Other locations include West Africa, the Great Lakes and eventually Southern Africa. Said in another way, Ancient Egyptians and other modern African populations are descendants of the same people who used to live in Eastern Africa (maybe around the Sudan region) and the Green Sahara.
DNA TRibes is a private company that didn't publish their methods or have their conclusions peer reviewed.
DNA Consultants is a similar company they said there is strong affinity between Copts and ancient Amarna DNA based on JAMA data
The DNA Tribes method is easy to understand. They took the STR alleles profile of ancient Egyptian mummies and compared it to the genetic regions devised by their analysis. The DNA Tribes is also confirmed by the BMJ study itself which identity Ramses III as being E1b1a based on STR alleles. The same ones used by DNA Tribes. E1b1a is common in the same genetic region identified by DNA tribes. You can ignore the DNA Tribes results if you want but it's more like trying to close your eyes to the truth that hurts your prejudice. I always take it into account. DNA consultant identified only one allele and has no discriminative power as populations in Alaska, Australia(?), Europe and Africa all matches this so called gene. Even if Africa and African Americans are there, Siberians too. Modern copts are probably populations which arrived later in Ancient Egypt history and don't possess much alleles in common with those of the 18th and 20th dynastic families. At least, not nearly as much as African populations in the Great Lakes, Southern and Western genetic regions.
Posts: 2981 | Registered: Jan 2012
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quote:That sounds like what those White people in the U.S. who claim to be Indians say.
But if 1/8 makes you an Indian.
Then what does 7/8 make you?
Ya, when you see it written out, the true stupidity of it comes out.
Those White/mulatto people calling themselves Copts are likely White Greeks/Romans/Turks.
Their identity politics/crisis aside you cannot separate them from their own ancestors that's like trying to separate the cream from your coffee it is what it is. They called themselves Copts because they used the latest from of Kemetian in their Church language. And yes they are also descendants of Greeks,Romans and Turks.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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That is not why they call themselves Copts, if that was the case then why does the Ethiopian church call themselves Copt as well? It is my understanding it (the word Copt) is a derivation of the Greek word for Egypt. Why would someone who descends from Kemet use a Greek word to define themselves? If there is a continuation of legacy then why not keep the same name they always used from time immemorial? Isn't like they are African Americans who were deprived of their heritage and their ancestral lineage through a oppressive system of slavery. These people were free in their own lands to live and do whatever in the hell they wanted, so this makes no sense. Also, if I remember right, from one of Wallis Budge's books he says that language has SOME ancient Egyptian words but not enough for someone to have understood the language. It isn't just some evolution of language like you have seen with old and middle English. That is Greek based with African (kemetic) words. I am not home now but when I get home, I will see if I can find the quote from Budge. it is also my understanding that most Copts are descended from people who came in from the Middle east during Roman rule i.e. middle eastern Christians. They mixed with locals to some degree, but the the movement is outward, to inward.
Posts: 1296 | From: the planet | Registered: May 2011
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That is not why they call themselves Copts, if that was the case then why does the Ethiopian church call themselves Copt as well? It is my understanding it (the word Copt) is a derivation of the Greek word for Egypt. Why would someone who descends from Kemet use a Greek word to define themselves? If there is a continuation of legacy then why not keep the same name they always used from time immemorial? Isn't like they are African Americans who were deprived of their heritage and their ancestral lineage through a oppressive system of slavery. These people were free in their own lands to live and do whatever in the hell they wanted, so this makes no sense. Also, if I remember right, from one of Wallis Budge's books he says that language has SOME ancient Egyptian words but not enough for someone to have understood the language. It isn't just some evolution of language like you have seen with old and middle English. That is Greek based with African (kemetic) words. I am not home now but when I get home, I will see if I can find the quote from Budge. it is also my understanding that most Copts are descended from people who came in from the Middle east during Roman rule i.e. middle eastern Christians. They mixed with locals to some degree, but the the movement is outward, to inward.
The Ethiopians call themselves Coptic because they used to follow the Patriarch of Alexandria only in this instance they used Geez.
And they were under the thumb of Greeks and then Rome for roughly a thousand yrs,after the fall of the last Kemetic dynasty they had to under go many changes culturally even before the advent of Christianity which was forced upon them. look at what they did to poor ol Osiris and Isis calling Osiris Serapes,this was done by royal decree,when Rome went Christian they took over some of the icons mainly Horus and Isis turned them into Jesus and Mary, for their own use, discard the rest and closed the temples by force,Egypt was all Copts until Muslims invaded only those who didn't convert kept the name Copts..I agree that they were augmented by Syrian and Greek coreligionist but that's not to say they are not biologically connected to the earlier black folks that occupied the same space but at a different time.
Posts: 6546 | From: japan | Registered: Feb 2009
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posted
I really have not researched the Copts, my only interest in them was that they "INITIALLY" acknowledged a Black Jesus.
But NOW they are in line with European Albinos in falsifying history.
(St. Mark Coptic Cathedral in Alexandria)
This makes me think that the CURRENT people calling themselves Copts, are DIFFERENT from the ORIGINAL Copts.
Hell, these modern people even have a WHITE ST. MAURICE and a WHITE JESUS!!!!
Christ - Coptic Art
Coptic St. Maurice
Obviously there has been a BIG change in Coptic culture.
I have several scholarly writings on the Copts that I have saved over the years, I will post them following.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tiye57: But where are the cultural remnants of Ancient Egypt present in the Copts as opposed to sub-saharan Africans?
what cultural remnants ?
Like the hairstyles and the dress of the Danakil, Beja and Somali. The head-binding of the Mangbetu, etc.
Posts: 33 | From: U.S. | Registered: Jun 2010
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quote:Originally posted by HERU: They are descendents of the Ancient Egyptians, only they've mixed with Greek and Circassian populations over the years, giving them a wide variety of phenotypes.
It's the other way around. They are originally Greeks who married the Egyptians.
Posts: 33 | From: U.S. | Registered: Jun 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: Don't ~15% of Egyptian Copts have Haplogroup B according to Hassan 2008? That would lend support to the hypothesis that there's some latent indigenous Egyptian ancestry in certain Copts at least.
wiki:
A study of Copts group in Sudan found relatively high frequencies of Sub-Saharan Haplogroup B (Y-DNA). The Sudanese Copts are converts to Egyptian Christianity and not ethnically related to Egyptian Copts. According to the study, the presence of Sub-Saharan haplogroups may also consistent with the historical record in which southern Egypt was colonized by Nilotic populations during the early state formation.[42]
However, it is not generally accepted that Sudanese Copts are ethnically related to those of Egypt, as conversion of ethnic Nubian kings to Christianity occurred in the 6th century AD. According to tradition, a missionary sent by Byzantine empress Theodora arrived in Nobatia and started preaching the gospel about 540 AD. It is possible that the conversion process began earlier, however, under the aegis of Coptic missionaries from Egypt. The Nubian kings accepted the Monophysite Christianity already practiced in Egypt and acknowledged the spiritual authority of the Egyptian Coptic patriarch of Alexandria over the Nubian church, which in turn adopted the Coptic name for their church.
posted
^Here is some of the promised writings on the Copts, in the normal historical context. This is in fact normal history with no excerpting. If this is too long, let me know.
Byzantine Period – Alexandria
The Byzantine Period - It is with the ascension of the Roman emperor Constantine that a new era began for Alexandria, as well as for the Empire as a whole. By defeating his co-ruler Licinius (Rome had begun the practice of having two rulers, one for the eastern half of the Empire, and one for the western half), Constantine became sole emperor. He created an eastern capital for the Empire in the city of Byzantium, which he renamed Constantinople (this would not be the last name change the city would go through, after the sack by the Ottoman Turks in 1453 it would be called Istanbul). His new capital, in which he spent much of his remaining life until his death in AD 337, was small but growing, but it was a far cry from the mighty city it would become under the Byzantines. Constantine imported Greek and Roman statuary to decorate the city, ordered the construction of buildings in the traditional Roman style, and had half the grain shipments from Alexandria shipped to Constantinople.
Yet what Constantine is most noted for today was his policy towards the various religions in the Empire. He supported both the Roman religion as well as Christianity. Clerics of both faiths were exempted from taxation and having to serve on city councils (a move which prompted a great number of ordinations), the same financial help which had been given to the building of Roman temples was now shared with the Christians, and Constantine himself was responsible for the construction of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre at Jerusalem. Constantine also gave land and money to build a great church in Rome, which would later grow into the headquarters of the Christian religion: the Vatican. With so much emphasis on Constantinople, and the fact that much of the Egyptian grain production was being shipped there, Alexandria began to slip from its position at the center of the Mediterranean world.
Meanwhile the old Roman Empire crumbled under barbarian invasions and internal conflict, and the Byzantine Empire rose in its place. The center of the world moved to Constantinople, which under the Byzantines became a center for art, science, and religious and secular learning. Alexandria continued to influence the world, only more subtly now. In 529 the emperor Justinian closed the Academy of Athens, forbidding the teaching of what he called "pagan philosophy", yet Alexandria's schools remained open, teaching Atristotelian and Platonic philosophy well into the eighth century. Alexandria also received another moment of glory during the Byzantine Era, as the Byzantines became rather infatuated with classical Greek culture that had been largely lost under the Romans, but well-preserved by the learned of Alexandria. Royal patronage of the arts and sciences had long disappeared, yet the poets, teachers, and scholars went on for their art's sake, supporting themselves through pedagogy and commissioned writing. But this was not to last.
The difficulty of defending Egypt from a power base in Constantinople was forcefully illustrated during the last three decades of Byzantine rule. First, the old enemy, the Persians under Khosrow II, advanced to the Nile Delta and captured Alexandria. Their occupation was completed early in 619 and continued until 628, when Persia and Byzantium agreed to a peace treaty and the Persians withdrew. This had been a decade of violent hostility to the Egyptian Coptic Christians; among other oppressive measures, the Persians are said to have refused to allow the normal ordination of bishops and to have massacred hundreds of monks in their cave monasteries. The Persian withdrawal hardly heralded the return of peace to Egypt.
After battling the Persians, the Byzantine rulers had little hope of defeating the forces that came sweeping north from the deserts of Arabia. The final defeat of the Byzantine armies in 636 left Palestine and Syria open to conquest by the Arabs, and they spread like wildfire over northern Africa, eventually bringing Alexandria under their control in 642.
Posts: 22721 | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: I really have not researched the Copts, my only interest in them was that they "INITIALLY" acknowledged a Black Jesus.
But NOW they are in line with European Albinos in falsifying history.
(St. Mark Coptic Cathedral in Alexandria)
This makes me think that the CURRENT people calling themselves Copts, are DIFFERENT from the ORIGINAL Copts.
Hell, these modern people even have a WHITE ST. MAURICE and a WHITE JESUS!!!!
Christ - Coptic Art
Coptic St. Maurice
Obviously there has been a BIG change in Coptic culture.
I have several scholarly writings on the Copts that I have saved over the years, I will post them following.
Yeah Mike please post them. Never was interested in them(trying to distance myself from Egypt) but if what you state is true and they have hidden there own STORY for european HISTORY thats pathetic but really North Africans except Moroccans seem very self hatred type people.
Posts: 9651 | From: Reace and Love City. | Registered: Oct 2005
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The silent majority of Egyptians are called (and they call themselves) Baladi, meaning natives. The loud minority of Egyptians (high governmental officials, academicians, journalists, and the self-proclaimed intellectuals) are described by the silent majority as Afrangi, meaning foreigners.
The Afrangi are the Egyptian people who compromised the Egyptian heritage to gain high positions and approval of foreign invaders of Egypt. As a tool of foreign forces, like Arabs, the Afrangi rule and dominate the Baladi--the natives. The Afrangi are, like their foreign masters, arrogant, cruel, and vain. After foreign forces left Egypt, the Egyptian Afrangi continued their role as the righteous rulers.
It has been written and repeated, that the Ancient Egyptians accepted the domination of the Ptolemaic and Roman rules, that they had willingly changed their religious beliefs into Christianity, and a short time later, they willingly accepted Islam as a substitute for Christianity. Accordingly, many conflicting sides, who use Ancient Egypt to promote each's own agenda, insist that the ancient religion and traditions have died. The truth is that they never died, and they continue to survive within the silent majority--the Baladi people of Egypt.
Because of the ironclad control of Islam over history writing since 641 CE, Moslem historians publicize that Egyptians forgot their identity and became a part of a big happy family called "Arabs". No one can dare oppose the line that Islam saved Egypt from previous Gahe-Liya (ignorance era). As a result, we witness an intellectual state of terrorism that conceals realities into a cloud of dust by the dominating Afrangi Egyptians.
The Egyptian Baladi (natives) have suffered from foreign rule (including and especially the moslem/Arabs) for about 2,000 years. They learned to survive. They kept the old traditions under a thin exterior of Islam, in order to survive the foreigners and their Egyptian Afrangi.
To grow up in Egypt, one is taught to accept the Koran as the "Book from God". Both the Koran and the Bible condemned ancient Egyptians' beliefs and the Pharaohs. No historical fact can contradict the Koran. The whole world's knowledge of Ancient Egypt is largely based on the biblical (koranic as well) accounts of interaction between the Hebrews and Egypt. And as our "view" is mostly from these sources, it is largely negative.
A conflict between historical facts and religious convictions is very dangerous indeed. Because of such religious fear and intimidation, most fellow Egyptians do not appreciate their own ancient history, and as a result, they suffer from a self-imposed identity crisis. It is no wonder that the Ancient Egyptian history is studied almost exclusively by non-Egyptians.
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Copt is derived from the Greek rendering for an Egyptian. The Arabs, after 640 CE, used that general term to label the non-Moslems. As a result, the term Copt took on a different meaning by the 7th century.
Researchers of Ancient Egypt assumed WRONGLY that the Christians in Egypt (so-called "Copts") are the link between Ancient Egypt and our present time. On the contrary, the Christians in Egypt are NOT natives of Egypt, but a foreign minority. This situation is explained herein.
When Alexander died in 323 BCE, one of his generals, Ptolemy, son of Lagus, took charge under the nominal rulership of Alexander’s brother Philip Arrhidaeus. Upon Philip’s death, Ptolemy declared himself the ruler. His actions initiated a Ptolemaic Dynasty. Their new settlement, along the Mediterranean coast, was predominantly Greek, which was officially described as being ad Aegyptum, not in Aegypto, i.e. it was an intrusion into an alien country. In Alexandria, Greeks formed the bulk of the population, followed in number by the Jews.
Greek became the mother tongue of the Jews in Egypt. Many Jews had been imported as soldiers, even before the arrival of the Ptolemies. For example, the Persians had established a Jewish garrison, as far south as the island of Philae, which had left behind some records in Aramaic.
When Palestine fell under the control of Ptolemy I in 301 BCE, he brought back Jewish mercenaries, who joined the already-established communities in Egypt. Unable to speak their native tongue, Jews, living in Alexandria, soon felt a need to translate their sacred books into Greek. They persuaded King Ptolemy II (285-247 BCE), to order a Greek translation of the Bible. The High Priest of Jerusalem sent 72 elders to Alexandria, six representatives from each of the twelve tribes of Israel, together with an official copy of the Pentateuch. They worked for 72 days to produce the final copy of the Pentateuch in Greek. Later, the other books of the Old Testament were also translated into Greek by others, and the whole work became known as the Septuagint, which means The Seventy. Since the Greek text is older than the Hebrew text, it was therefore adopted as the Bible of the early Church.
Ptolemy compensated his mercenary troops (Syrians, Greeks, Macedonians, Persians and Hellenized Asiatics) by giving them tracts of land among the Egyptian population in towns near the capitals of the provinces, into which Egypt was divided. These pockets of foreign settlements are exactly where the Christian population is concentrated in present-day Egypt.
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Under the Ottoman's Egypt was divided into twenty-four districts and each had its own Mameluke bey, which was formerly called an emir. Each of these beys were governed by the sultan in Istanbul. The Mameluke beys surrounded themselves with slaves who collected taxes for them and had baronial authority. Tributes had to be paid to the Turks as well.The Ottoman ruler, Sultan Selim liked to keep trouble brewing between the Mameluke beys so that he could keep them divided and controlled. So they kept on fighting among themselves. The leader who was on top, so to speak, was called the Sheikh al Balad, which means "chief of the country". There were times where the Sheikh became more powerful than the sultan in Istanbul, although this only happened when the Turks had their attentions elsewhere, which was actually quite often. The Turks had set about stopping revolts in their empire or spreading their empire even further into the west. The were even able to reach the Danube and plundered every Venetian ship they ran across in the Mediterranean. Cairo still remained an important city because of the wheat that fed the people of Istanbul, however Venice was almost destroyed. Cairo became once again a port for fruits and grains that headed for Islam, instead of Europe. Life in Cairo was again filled with plunderings, assassinations and killing in the streets.
The rivalries among the Mamelukes were compounded when more types of Mamelukes were installed in the Citadel; the Azabs and Janissaries. There were times where the different groups would hold themselves up in the different mosques and fire cannons at each other across the city. The city was to be ruled by the governor with his own men, but this became very difficult to do because the local problems were not important enough to worry with to the colonial loyalists. Tributes were collected by the Turks in the ports, but the Mamelukes took most of the money before the tribute was levied. The ordinary person was left with almost nothing. The peasant was completely exploited.In 1695, a famine struck Cairo and the people demonstrated outside the Citadel. The pasha refused to acknowledge them and even tried to run them off. The crowd was finally able to break into the stores and took bread and other foods. Finally the revolt got so bad that the pasha was replaced by another pasha that had been sent from the Porte. A self-proclaimed saint, arrived in the city in 1698 and set up a cafe behind the fountain of al Mou'men. He let the men and women dance freely all day and night. The people greatly enjoyed this until the soldiers arrived and beheaded the saint at the Citadel. For many years, Cairo was divided into two factions, the Kassemites and the Fikarites. The division was originally created deliberately by Sultan Selim between the Kassemites, who were the Mamelukes of Egypt and the Fikarites, who were the Turkish Janissaries. Eventually the Sadites and Haramites were divided with half of them supporting the Kassemites and the other half supporting the Fikarites. Sometimes these conflicts affected the whole city and many people lost their lives in silly battles that accomplished absolutely nothing. The only good thing that occurred during this time is that the scholars did not give up.
Cairo had the reputation of deteriorating intellectually during this time, but that was not the case. The common disrespect for the rulers bound them together. There was almost always mockery of the rulers by the people. The mosques managed to keep everyone committed passionately. In 1705 the river was low and the people went to Mukattam Hills to pray for deliverance. The Sheikh Hasan al Hadji was completely disgusted by this display. Mohammed Amin Pasha was governor during the period in which some of Cairo's merchants were Moslems, however many were Jews and Copts. Many of them were very wealthy. The Ottomans used Copts as their clerks and civil servants. Some of the more prosperous Copts were allowed by Mohammed Amin Pasha to make a pilgrimage to Jerusalem. Their caravan had many women and children and they had taken a lot of their possessions with them. They set up camp not far outside of Cairo, but while they were there Amin Pasha had encouraged some Moslem zealots to rob the Copts. They attacked their caravan and then looted the homes in the area as well. Some of the Turkish rulers were not as bad as others. Osman Bey Zulficar was rather intelligent as was Ridwan al Gelfi. Al Gelfi was the chief of the corps of Azabs who were the Turkish mercenaries. He built several beautiful homes. However, his tastes were not on the same scale of excess as al Hakim or Kafour. He did manage to leave a good impression on Cairo. The only monument of his that remains is a gate on the Citadel called Bab el Azab. It was behind this gate that Mohammed Ali massacred the last of the Mamelukes in 1811. He died after being shot by assassins while he was being shaved. He didn't die in the chair, but he managed to get away on his horse and run to the countryside. He died from his wounds. According to some historians during 1798, a laborer earned about one-seventh of a piaster per day. This came to be about 50 piasters in a year. The leading Mameluke, Murad Bey, took in fifteen hundred piasters every day out of the mint for his daily expenses. The situation in Egypt got to be so bad that the Coptic villages in Upper Egypt refused to pay their taxes. Apparently no one tried to collect from them either.
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posted
The Turkish manners and ways of life seemed to make no impression on the Egyptians. They did not use the Turkish language and the people of Cairo managed to keep their own identity. The ruling families did adopt some of the Turkish habits, but by and large the city remained Egyptian. The Turks built mosques but they preferred the public mosque called a masjid, to the college mosque called a madrasa. The Byzantine style was preferred to the traditional Arabian style. The mosques were usually smaller and their artistic creativity was less, not because of a lack of skill, but because of a lack of money. In the year between 1796 and 1797, the Egyptians revolted against the Turks. They wanted something to be done about the unbearable taxes and the economic misery that had been oppressing them for so long. One of the Egyptian Mamelukes, Ali Bey, occupied Cairo and sent the Turkish pasha back to Porte. He then attacked Arabia and Syria and defeated them soundly. He was called the caliph of Mecca, which made Egypt an essentially independent state within the Ottoman Empire. Ali Bey was eventually murdered and Ibrahim, who was another Mameluke along with Murad Bey took over the rule of Egypt. It was during this time that Napoleon arrived on the coast of Alexandria. The Mamelukes were not strong enough to fight both the French and the Turks at the same time. Murad would not believe it when he was told that Napoleon had arrived. When he finally believed it, he invited Napoleon to come to Cairo. A man named Rosetti, who was the Tuscan consul, was told by Murad to give each of the French soldiers a handful of silver when they arrived and to ask them to leave because Murad had no desire to kill them. Rosetti then tried to explain to Murad who exactly Napoleon was. Murad knew nothing of Europe or the history, so when the French started their advance on Cairo, Murad sent out ten thousand Mamelukes and thirty thousand irregulars, who were mostly Albanians, Negroes, Bedouins and Egyptians, to fight Napoleons forty thousand veteran troops.In a suburb of Cairo called Imbaba, the French and the Mamelukes fought it out. The battle was very bloody on both sides.
The veteran French soldiers maneuvered all over the place and eventually got the Mamelukes in a crossfire. The citizens of Cairo watched the smoke and dust rise over the city and the sounds of rifle shots and cannon filling the air. At the end of it all, the Mamelukes were beaten and they left the city. Murad Bey rushed to his palace at Giza and gathered up as much of his fortune as he could in about fifteen minutes. He ordered his soldiers to burn all of the military's gunpowder and gunboats along with any other ammunition that were along the river at Giza. He then left the city. The people of Cairo mistakenly thought the French had set their city on fire. They began to pack their belongings and fled as quickly as they could. They really had no place to go and many of them were attacked by the Bedouins as they left the city. The killings and pillagings began even before the French ever arrived in the city. Several of the sheikhs of Cairo met at Azhar and wrote a letter to Napoleon to negotiate the surrender of the city. The people felt betrayed and deserted and became very angry. They broke into the palaces of Murad and Ibrahim and set them afire. It was on a Wednesday that Napoleon rode into the city and and took possession of the city.
Ottoman Rule
(1517-1798)
Although the Ottoman Turks were brilliant military strategists and developed a rich Islamic civilization, they were poor colonial administrators. They ruled Egypt from Istanbul through Pashawat who were trained in Istanbul. Their direct involvement in government rarely extended to more than enforcing tax collection. Otherwise the Ottomans exercised minimal control over their new province and relied on the Mamluke army whose ranks continued to expand with mercenary slaves brought in from the Caucasus. This lack of concern manifested in neglect and deterioration which opened the way for the French invasion of Egypt in 1798.
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Here is an interesting one.
The Christian "Copts" of Egypt
Copt is derived from the Greek rendering for an Egyptian. The Arabs, after 640 CE, used that general term to label the non-Moslems. As a result, the term Copt took on a different meaning by the 7th century.
Researchers of Ancient Egypt assumed WRONGLY that the Christians in Egypt (so-called "Copts") are the link between Ancient Egypt and our present time. On the contrary, the Christians in Egypt are NOT natives of Egypt, but a foreign minority. This situation is explained herein.
When Alexander died in 323 BCE, one of his generals, Ptolemy, son of Lagus, took charge under the nominal rulership of Alexander’s brother Philip Arrhidaeus. Upon Philip’s death, Ptolemy declared himself the ruler. His actions initiated a Ptolemaic Dynasty. Their new settlement, along the Mediterranean coast, was predominantly Greek, which was officially described as being ad Aegyptum, not in Aegypto, i.e. it was an intrusion into an alien country. In Alexandria, Greeks formed the bulk of the population, followed in number by the Jews.
Greek became the mother tongue of the Jews in Egypt. Many Jews had been imported as soldiers, even before the arrival of the Ptolemies. For example, the Persians had established a Jewish garrison, as far south as the island of Philae, which had left behind some records in Aramaic.
When Palestine fell under the control of Ptolemy I in 301 BCE, he brought back Jewish mercenaries, who joined the already-established communities in Egypt. Unable to speak their native tongue, Jews, living in Alexandria, soon felt a need to translate their sacred books into Greek. They persuaded King Ptolemy II (285-247 BCE), to order a Greek translation of the Bible. The High Priest of Jerusalem sent 72 elders to Alexandria, six representatives from each of the twelve tribes of Israel, together with an official copy of the Pentateuch. They worked for 72 days to produce the final copy of the Pentateuch in Greek. Later, the other books of the Old Testament were also translated into Greek by others, and the whole work became known as the Septuagint, which means The Seventy. Since the Greek text is older than the Hebrew text, it was therefore adopted as the Bible of the early Church.
Ptolemy compensated his mercenary troops (Syrians, Greeks, Macedonians, Persians and Hellenized Asiatics) by giving them tracts of land among the Egyptian population in towns near the capitals of the provinces, into which Egypt was divided. These pockets of foreign settlements are exactly where the Christian population is concentrated in present-day Egypt.
Thank you.
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quote:Originally posted by Truthcentric: [qb] Don't ~15% of Egyptian Copts have Haplogroup B according to Hassan 2008? That would lend support to the hypothesis that there's some latent indigenous Egyptian ancestry in certain Copts at least.
wiki:
A study of Copts group in Sudan found relatively high frequencies of Sub-Saharan Haplogroup B (Y-DNA). The Sudanese Copts are converts to Egyptian Christianity and not ethnically related to Egyptian Copts. According to the study, the presence of Sub-Saharan haplogroups may also consistent with the historical record in which southern Egypt was colonized by Nilotic populations during the early state formation.[42]
However, it is not generally accepted that Sudanese Copts are ethnically related to those of Egypt, as conversion of ethnic Nubian kings to Christianity occurred in the 6th century AD. According to tradition, a missionary sent by Byzantine empress Theodora arrived in Nobatia and started preaching the gospel about 540 AD. It is possible that the conversion process began earlier, however, under the aegis of Coptic missionaries from Egypt. The Nubian kings accepted the Monophysite Christianity already practiced in Egypt and acknowledged the spiritual authority of the Egyptian Coptic patriarch of Alexandria over the Nubian church, which in turn adopted the Coptic name for their church.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: I really have not researched the Copts, my only interest in them was that they "INITIALLY" acknowledged a Black Jesus.
But NOW they are in line with European Albinos in falsifying history.
(St. Mark Coptic Cathedral in Alexandria)
This makes me think that the CURRENT people calling themselves Copts, are DIFFERENT from the ORIGINAL Copts.
Hell, these modern people even have a WHITE ST. MAURICE and a WHITE JESUS!!!!
Christ - Coptic Art
Coptic St. Maurice
Obviously there has been a BIG change in Coptic culture.
I have several scholarly writings on the Copts that I have saved over the years, I will post them following.
Yeah Mike please post them. Never was interested in them(trying to distance myself from Egypt) but if what you state is true and they have hidden there own STORY for european HISTORY thats pathetic but really North Africans except Moroccans seem very self hatred type people.
black libyans are very proud of their heritage too. I know many.
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posted
^I thought that some of you might benefit from knowing the rest of Egypt's history.
Napoleon
The armies of Napoleon crushed the Mamlukes at Imbaba and occupied Cairo. Napoleon's aim was to block British trade routes to India and to establish a Francophonic society in Egypt. He imposed a French administrative system and implemented public works projects to clean up and renovate the long-neglected country, clearing blocked canals, cleaning the streets and building bridges. Napoleon claimed to have respect for Islam and the Qur'an but the Egyptians did not believe him. For all his attempts at "civilizing" the country, Napoleon failed to win the respect or allegiance of his subjects. His quixotic mission was doomed from the outset. Within a month of entering Egypt the British, under Admiral Nelson, attacked and destroyed the French fleet moored at Abu Qir Bay in Alexandria and the Ottoman sultan threatened war against the French. Napoleon returned to France, leaving his armies behind. But his commander, General Klr, was assassinated, leaving the army to General Menou, who claimed to have converted to Islam and declared Egypt a French protectorate. At this, the British occupied Alexandria and with the Ottomans captured Damietta and Cairo, forcing the French to surrender. The Napoleonic invasion of Egypt had profound repercussions for the Arab and Muslim world which continue to influence the region's political and social development. This was the first European conquest of a major Arab country in the history of Islam and it signalled the rapid decline of Islam as a world political power. Although it could be said that the Ottoman Empire was by this time already a spent force, the humiliation of Napoleon's entry into Egypt was a devastating blow to pan-Islamic pride. It has been said that contemporary Muslim fundamentalism traces its psychological origins to this initial shattering defeat.
French Occupation Period
When Napoleon arrived in Cairo, he brought with him a wide array of disorders and also Europe. After the three years that he spent in Cairo, the city would never again be the same Oriental town that it had been. The French left a legacy that is written all over the European parts of Cairo. Their tastes were mainly of a French middle class influence. Napoleon came to Egypt on his way to India. Egypt just happened to be in the way and he had to get past this barrier first. The English and the French had a rivalry for an empire. Apparently the French had in mind to create a canal that would connect the Mediterranean and the Red Sea. The trade war in Europe had been building for years and it had now come to the point where the east was the highest stakes to be won. Napoleon had been told that a conquest of Egypt would more than make up for the loss of the French West Indian colonies to the British. They were correct in thinking that the route across Egypt would be the fastest and maybe the best trade route to the east. This was all provided that Egypt and the trade itself were in the hands of the Europeans and not someone who would lay ridiculous levies on anything that passed through Egypt.To get to Egypt, Napoleon needed three hundred ships to carry himself and his forty thousand soldiers. Napoleon set out from Toulon and other Mediterranean ports. The British thought that they were going to go through the Straits of Gibraltar to attack England by way of Ireland. There was a fairly small squadron of English ships that were sent out to stop the French from reaching the English Channel. The English did finally determine that Napoleon was sailing east and not west. The English did finally catch up to the French and chased them all the way to the port of Abukir, near Alexandria, Egypt. The English defeated the French fighting fleet. However, Napoleon's own ship L'Orient, narrowly missed the fighting. Had it not, the outcome of the entire battle might have been completely different. Napoleon was never able to get reinforcements from France because of the loss of safe communications with his homeland. He met his first resistance from the Egyptian people in the Delta. The peasants and the townspeople fought him, rather than soldiers. When Napoleon entered Cairo, he sent for the sheikhs of the city. He informed them that he intended to set up a group of ten to rule the country and set up the laws. This was ultimately how he ran the country. He arrived in the city on Wednesday, July 25, 1798 and moved into the Mohammed Bey al Elfi palace, which was brand new. Very few soldiers came into the city with Napoleon, as most of them stayed along the river.
The people of Cairo seemed in a kind of shock by the occupation of these new rulers. They did not realize that the Mamelukes, whose job it had been to defend the city and failed miserably, were no longer capable of defending the city. It was the job of the Egyptians. The French also seemed to be cautious as if they didn't know how to go about beginning to occupy the city.In the beginning the French soldiers walked through the city unarmed and paid extremely high prices for everything that they bought. This encouraged the rest of the people to come out of hiding. French restaurants were opened up by the French citizens of Cairo for the new soldiers in their city. This was the first restaurant that Cairo had ever seen. The Egyptians were very excited about this and this allowed the French to come into Cairo very lightly at first.Meanwhile, Napoleon was setting himself up militarily in the city. He began by occupying all of the strategic buildings and began to set up artillery all around the outside of the city. He also began to make stronger contacts with the sheikhs that he had convinced to cooperate with him. The Mameluke sheikhs seemed to be very impressed with the European culture. Napoleon needed some sort of visible sign from the people that they had submitted to his rule. He ordered everyone to wear a sort of badge on their hats as a symbol of friendship and submission. The people for the most part ignored this order and eventually Napoleon was forced to withdraw it.
This was the first sign of the unrest the people were beginning to feel. They began to resent everything that he did in the city. He taxed all of the buildings and even tried to level off the graves in a cemetery at Ezbekiya so that he could have level ground around his headquarters. The people became very hostile about the cemetery and he did not go through with his plan. The demonstrations by the people of Cairo became too much for Napoleon and he had one of his generals, Dupuy, go out into the streets to disperse the demonstrators. The people attacked the general, killed him and many of his soldiers. The people then occupied the remaining gates on the streets of Cairo and put up barricades in all parts of the city. The year was 1798 and this was Cairo's first revolt against the occupation of the French.The French responded by setting up cannons in the Citadel and firing them at Azhar and the areas around it. During the night, the French had forces go into the area and destroy the barricades. The cavalry forced their way into the Azhur and killed an unknown number of people. The citizens of Cairo would never rest in their harassment of the French. They had finally learned that it was up to them alone what they did. There were no Mamelukes, soldiers or outsiders to help. The resistance was so violent that Napoleon demanded that the sheikhs tell him who the leaders of the revolts were. They refused at first, but eventually they did betray some. One of the betrayed was the chief of the Corporation of the Blind. He and four others were arrested and shot. The French then set about destroying parts of the city and Giza. They also built forts all around the city and demolished mosques, small palaces and some homes in the city. They even poisoned the dogs in the city because the dogs would sound a warning when a French soldier would approach. Cairo did manage to benefit from the presence of the French. Napoleon had two headquarters, one of which was military and the other intellectual. Even before he had left France, he planned to establish a solid French cultural base for the future. It seemed that the two policies of military and intellect began to grow further apart from each other.
The French had to defend themselves more and more against attacks, while the scholars made very deep impressions on Cairo's people in the very wealthy Institut de l'Egypte.This Institut de l'Egypte had been set up in two houses in a part of Cairo called Nasriya. There were four sections; industry, science and mathematics, health, art and literature. There were thirty-six French scholars that were there. In the brand new house of Hasan al Kachef, who was a Circassian Mameluke and had fled with Murad, the industry, health, and science sections set up laboratories, workshops and libraries. In the other house, which belonged to Ibrahim al Sinnari, who a Turkish deputy, the painters and artists worked. The citizens of Cairo continued to openly oppose Napoleon, which caused him to execute more and more people every day. In one day alone he had ninety people shot in the Citadel and five Jews and two women were arrested and thrown in the Nile to drown. The people who worked for the French now rode around on horses and carried weapons. They would insult the Moslems, which must have been encouraged by Napoleon because he always needed these minorities to help him rule. Things continued to deteriorate and it must have been during this time that he decided that he would not be able to stay in Egypt. In 1798 he was beginning to believe that the Turkish and the British, who were working together at this time, were getting ready to attack him from Syria. Thinking that he should attack first, he started preparing an attack on Syria. On September 22, 1798, he left Cairo on a mission to explore the area as far as Suez. He returned to Cairo almost immediately and in February 1799, he along with his army set out to defeat the Turks in Syria. The baggage that he took along with him was incredible. He had beds and mattresses, slaves and women in French clothes. Not much of it was military equipment.
The French were defeated at Acre by mostly British soldiers. Napoleon got back to Cairo as quickly as he could with only seven thousand of the twelve thousand that he had left with. The citizens were delighted that he had been beaten. At about the same time that he was arriving back in Cairo, the Turks were arriving in Abukir. Napoleon was completely on the defensive now and quickly went north to face the Turks. These Turks had no British soldiers helping them, and the French easily beat the Ottoman troops. He returned to Cairo with thousands of Turkish prisoners. By this time, it was inevitable that a better prepared Turkish army would beat him. Knowing this, he went home to France where he became the First Consul in 1799. Kleber had been left in charge of Cairo.On the Egyptian borders, Sir Sidney Smith who had defeated Napoleon at Acre, appeared with the Turks. Kleber knew that he could not win the fight so he signed an agreement to evacuate the country. It was the year 1800. As the French began to evacuate the city, the Egyptians didn't even attempt to hide their hatred of the French. They ridiculed and insulted the French. The Mamelukes that had been hanging around outside the city, were ready to reoccupy the city as soon as the French were gone.
There was a period of weeks in which the Mamelukes, the French and the Turks watched each other nervously around the city. The French had no ships so this made it very difficult for Kleber to leave the city. The Mamelukes and the Turks began grouping together as if getting ready for an attack on the city. Kleber began to feel trapped so he marched out of Cairo and attacked the Turks at Heliopolis. The Turks left after the first attack and the people of Cairo armed themselves with clubs after hearing the gunshots. The Turks needed someone else to take the heat to divert attention from themselves for failing and their cowardice. The Turks then ordered all the Christians to be killed since there were bad feelings against the Christians that had sided with the French. Moslems were also arrested and killed or manhandled by the same people who were killing the Christians. It turned out to be more of a religious issue that had inspired the brutality. The entire city was in a state of civil war. After sometime, the city began to be without food and the sheikhs were afraid that the city would be reduced to ruins in the bombardment by the French. The people tried to negotiate with Kleber. However the French troops came back to the city and broke through the barricades the people had set up. Finally the Turks and Mamelukes agreed to leave Cairo. The French gave them camels and money to help them get out faster.
Once again the French controlled the city, but all they really wanted to do was to leave Cairo. The only way to get out was if the British let them go, and that probably wasn't going to happen. Something dramatic was going to have to happen to stop the atmosphere of mutual hatred that was between the French soldiers and the people of Cairo. This finally happened on June 17, 1800, when General Kleber was stabbed to death at the palace headquarters at Ezbekiya, on his terrace. News spread quickly on the streets of Cairo and the people held their breath waiting for the reaction by the French. The French were afraid to enact any excessive revenge and were only too glad to accept the confession of the killer, who was a student of religion named Suleiman Alepin. He said that he had acted alone, which was virtually impossible scenario in any political assassination. However, Alepin and two accomplices were formally tried and sentenced to death. Alepin was forced to watch his accomplices beheaded and then had to suffer a painfully slow death. Kleber was succeeded by General Jacques Menou. There had never been a person who was left in charge of a city that was in a more dangerous or critical situation. Menou had become a Moslem and had a Moslem wife. Their son, Said Soliman Mourad Jacques Menou was the first citizen recorded by the French in the census of Cairo. The Egyptian Moslems never believed that any Europeans who became Moslems were really Moslems. That left Menou just another Frenchman. The British soldiers led by Sir Ralph Abercromby landed at Abukir on March 8, 1801. The Turks landed at al Arish on the eastern frontier of Egypt. The French knew that it was all over by this point. Menou was not a good general and he was easily beaten when he attacked the English near Alexandria. Abercromby was killed and was succeeded by Sir John Hutchinson as commander. Menou was isolated in Alexandria and was virtually cut off from Cairo by flooding and the sea dikes in the country. The British did not want to get involved in a street fight with the French, so they waited for the French to finally surrender. The city was completely surrounded by the British, Mamelukes and Turks and the people inside the city were beginning to starve. Sir John Hutchinson offered to honor the original evacuation agreement with Kleber and the French agreed happily.
The British, Mamelukes and Turks took over Cairo. There was a Colonel Stewart that entered the city first and went to the Citadel. It had been abandoned and no one had the keys, so he was unable to get in. There was a French officer that had been somehow left behind and eventually opened the gates. The British offered to protect the French officer, but he refused their offer and wandered out into the street where he was stoned to death by the people. The Turks went to the Citadel, where they found the British already there. The Turks were furious.The Ottoman flag flew over the city because officially the Turks were in control of Cairo, but the British were in control of the Citadel. Many from the British army followed the French out of the city and all the way to Alexandria to make sure that they were gone. The British stayed in the city only long enough to reestablish the Turks and they were all too happy to leave the city. One of the Turks that was left in charge was a young officer named Mohammed Ali. Ali had proved himself in a cavalry charge against the French and was soon promoted by The Turkish admiral, Husein. Mohammed Ali was an Albanian that was born in the same year as Napoleon and was thirty-three years old when he came to Cairo as an officer of the Turkish forces. Mohammed Ali made himself pasha of Egypt with some help from his Albanian troops in 1806, five years after the British had left Cairo to the Turks. The Porte reluctantly acknowledged him the ruler of an independent state within the Ottoman Empire. He would rule Egypt for forty-three years, in which most of the years Egypt would be his private estate and Cairo would be his private city.Mohammed Ali knew that eventually he would have to contend with the Mamelukes if he ever wanted to control Egypt. They were still the feudal owners of Egypt and the land was still the source of wealth and power in Egypt.
In 1804 and 1805, Ali began to attack the Mamelukes. In one of the Mameluke's attempts at a defense, they forced their way into the city to fight him there. Ali's Albanians captured or killed most of the Mamelukes, which was the first serious blow to the Mameluke's. The captured Mamelukes were tortured and killed. During this clash the city was pillaged so badly that the people revolted against the Turkish governor and elected Mohammed Ali as pasha. He was considered to be the only enemy of both the Turks and the Mamelukes. The British were still watching the happenings in Egypt. They attacked Egypt in 1807 with the intentions of overthrowing the Turks and reinstating the Mamelukes in authority. However, the five thousand Albanian troops defeated the British and had the captured British soldiers sold into slavery. Some of the soldiers were led around the city starving and miserable. Some of the people in Cairo took pity on the soldiers, gave them food, helped their sick and gave them donkeys to ride. There were 466 British soldiers and 24 officers that were thrown into the dungeons, but many of them were later ransomed by General Frazer. There were a few that were left behind, including one Scottish soldier, Keith, who became a Moslem and fought as a Moslem. He later became the governor of the Holy City of Medina after showing great bravery in battle.After defeating the British, Mohammed Ali was in a very good position. The Turks were not going to be a problem since technically he was still representing them. The Mamelukes were much weaker after the defeat of the British and he was able to seize their lands in the Delta. By 1808 he was powerful enough to confiscate all of the land in Egypt, even the lands which were part of an Egyptian organization of religious endowment. He destroyed all of the title deeds to the land except his own. He set up a system of omdehs, who were local government representatives, and mudirs, who were provincial governors. This system remained in effect until 1952. As long as enough Mamelukes remained alive to claim their ancient rights to the land and to resist him, the land still didn't completely belong to Ali. He invited five hundred of the leading Mameluke lords to attend a ceremony that was supposedly for his son, Tusun.
The lords accepted and arrived wearing their most beautiful clothes and expensive armor, riding decorated horses. On March 1, 1811, Shahin Bey led the military procession of Mamelukes out of the Citadel. He went down a hill to the gate of Azab. The doors of the gate were shut quickly in front of them so that they were trapped with high walls on either side of them and Albanian soldiers behind them. Turks that were up on the high walls, were ordered to killed the Mamelukes as soon as the gate was closed. Five hundred Mamelukes were trapped in a very small space with their horses and all their armor. They removed as much of their armor as they could and tried to hide from the battering that came from above and behind them. Shahin Bey was wounded and then beheaded and presented to Mohammed Ali to claim a bounty. None of the Mamelukes escaped. The houses of the Mamelukes were soon raided and some of the women were murdered. After the fight was over, Mohammed Ali immediately went to find the less important Mamelukes who had remained in the countryside. Thousands of people were killed as well as the Mameluke power in Egypt. Mohammed Ali was in absolute power after their annihilation. He immediately began to spread his new kingdom with his sons Tusun, who was his favorite, and Ibrahim as his best generals. Istanbul invited them to war with the Wahhabis of Arabia and was able to get personal control of the Red Sea coast. This meant that he control the Red Sea on both sides. He occupied Sudan and began to modernize Egypt.
There were armories, factories, shipyards and canal systems were built by foreign experts that he imported to help. Some Egyptians were even sent abroad to study, especially in France. The Europeans began to be the privileged class of Egypt. Ali created monopolies in the trading and manufacturing areas which he shared with the European consuls. They had no choice but to agree to his outrageous terms, but they did reap the benefits anyway. The Europeans began to come to Egypt for different reasons than before. They were either the archaeologists or the tourists. The first archaeologist was Giovanni Belzoni. He was the son of a Paduan barber and was a strongman in a traveling fair. He came to Cairo in 1815 and became a fanatic of the ancient ruins. He was one of three people who did a lot to popularize Egypt and Cairo with the Europeans. The other members of the trio were John Lewis Burckhardt who was the Anglo-Swiss traveler, scholar and explorer. He discovered many Pharaonic sites that Belzoni exploited later. Another was Herbert Salt who was the British consul in Cairo. He was a business partner with Belzoni and he made a fortune from the antiquities he shipped to Europe in large amounts. Burckhardt did the discovery and Belzoni and Salt robbed the sites. Belzoni and Salt were the ones who sent to England the head of Memnon, the trunk of Ramses and the straight left Pharaonic arm which is in the British Museum's Egyptian section. Auguste Mariette came to Cairo in 1850 and is probably the most respected archaeologist in Egypt. He is the person who founded the Egyptian Museum in Cairo and collected most of what is inside.In the 1840s and 1850s, Mohammed Ali greatly enjoyed the European attention and interest in Egypt. He knew that it was a gold mine if he could figure out how to attach Egypt to the ever-expanding industrial and trading riches in Europe.
There were two things that really made this possible. Ali introduced cotton to Egypt in 1822 and in 1845 Lieutenant Thomas Waghorn carried the mail from Bombay to London in thirty days, which was a record time. He used an overland route through Egypt to do this.The cotton in Egypt was a native form called baladi. The Europeans needed a superior quality of cotton and in 1818, the Ethiopian cotton, called Maho, was shown to Mohammed Ali. Jumel, a Frenchman that had been in America, knew about this kind of cotton and convinced Mohammed Ali to grow a plot near the Heliopolis obelisk. By 1820, three bales had been shipped to Trieste. Mohammed Ali then put Jumel in charge of his cotton plantations. Mohammed Ali began to sell the entire crops for a year at a fixed price. Money began to flow into Egypt.The cotton industry also brought the credit system to Cairo, but not in a good way. Europe kept enticing Mohammed Ali and his successors to continue borrowing at the incredibly high interest rates that eventually gave France and England the excuse to foreclose on the Egyptian economy and control all Egyptian life. Eventually Mohammed Ali was in such debt that an American consul, Gliddon, went to England to interfere in Egypt. No one would do a thing in England. Gliddon said that the peasants in Egypt had a right to plant what they wanted, but to no avail.Another thing that would give Egypt its biggest lift was the direct route from India across Egypt to England. This was the first stage in the step to the Suez Canal. The Canal would not be started until 1859 and after Mohammed Ali's death. It was finally opened in 1869 and thereafter tied Egypt to Europe. By the time the canal was opened, Ismail, Mohammed Ali's grandson was ruling Egypt.
The European influence did good and bad for Cairo. Ismail intentionally divided Cairo into east and west areas because he wanted to built a Paris on the Nile. He then built two new boulevards in the old city and cut the city into quarters. Ismail's new quarter was set on a French plan and was the organization of modern Cairo. This area is called Ismailiya. Gas was brought to Cairo by Ismail in 1870, which was eventually replaced in 1898 with electricity. This made Cairo one of the earliest cities in the world to use electricity. Building was very heavy during a period of about ten years. Many homes were built as well as buildings. So much money was spent during this period that there seemed to be an endless supply of money. However, the money came from heavy taxation of everyone and everything and large loans from Europe. He was in such debt that in 1875 Ismail had to sell his shares of the Suez Canal to the British for four million pounds. In 1876, a group of Europeans told Ismail that he owed 91 million pounds. In 1879 the British and French did what Ismail had been expecting them to do for a long time. They told Ismail to abdicate, which he did because there was nothing else that he could do. The people wouldn't even help him because of the heavy taxes that he had levied on them. The people hated him. He finally gave in and left the country for Europe and died in exile in 1895. Ismail's son, Tawfik, inherited what was left of Egypt. The taxes that were placed on the people were even more harsh than before. Everything was taxed. A revolt was started by a man who liked to call himself Ahmad the Egyptian. He was the son of a peasant and became colonel of Tawfik's army. Arabi started speaking out for the peasants. The revolt began in 1881 with mutiny in the army itself. The rest of the country joined in immediately. Four thousand men marched to the square outside Abdin Palace and told the khedive to come out. Tawfik wasn't there, but when he did arrive, the palace was surrounded by soldiers that had cannons pointed at the palace. Tawfik had to sneak into the palace by the back way. He was advised by some of his leaders to appeal to the troops. He walked down the staircase with his British comptroller, Auckland Colvin, on one side and General Charles P Stone on the other. Tawfik asked the troops what they wanted. Arabi told him they wanted liberty, an assembly of notables, a constitution and all Egyptians to be equal under the law. Tawfik asked for time to think about it. Later Arabi was called to the palace and he either apologized to him or thanked him. The Egyptians have never forgotten it or forgiven him. Arabi was made minister for war. The British and French were aware what was happening and sent a fleet of ships to Alexandria.On July 11, 1882, the British bombarded Alexandria. Russian and American warships were in the harbor as well and the Europeans scrambled to get to the ships. Arabi had lined up along the Suez Canal hoping to stop the British. However, the British did go up the canal and landed at Ismailiya. On September 14, the British cavalry reached Abbasiya in Cairo. Arabi went out to Abbasiya and handed his sword over to the British. He has never been forgiven for this action either. Major Watson was an intelligence officer who entered the fortress alone. He ordered the commandant to get up and get out of the Citadel. The keys were handed over to Watson.
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The Period of Mohammed Ali Pasha (1802-1892)
Abstract
The French occupation destabilized Egypt and their defeat and withdrawal left the country vulnerable to an internal political struggle which was won by Mohammed Ali, an Albanian lieutenant in the Ottoman army who, with Mamluke help, drove the British (temporarily) out of Egypt. The Ottomans elevate him to khedive or viceroy of Egypt.
In order to consolidate his power, the new khedive realized he had to eradicate Mamluki power which he did decisively and spectacularly. After six years as ruler he invited 470 Mamluke soldiers to a banquet at the Citadel. It was a trap. All were massacred and the Mamluke threat was ended.
Although Mohammed Ali was nominally a representative of the Ottoman Sultan he was for all intents and purposes an absolute ruler. He was dedicated to the modern development of Egypt, building factories, railways and canals, bringing in European architects and technicians to create a modern state.
Mohammed Ali was also an ambitious expansionist whose armies extended his power over Syria, Sudan, Greece and the Arabian Peninsula until by 1839 he controlled a large portion of the Ottoman Empire. Throughout his reign, however, Mohammed Ali always kept up the pretence of being a loyal representative of the Khalif.
When it became clear that his power was exceeding acceptable limits, the British intervened, forcing him to relinquish some control to the Ottoman sultan. Mohammed Ali died in 1848 leaving his grandson Abbas to succeed him. Abbas opened Egypt to free trade, closing schools and factories and effectively halting the moves towards industrial development and economic self-sufficiency Mohammed Ali had set in motion. Said Pasha, the son and successor of Abbas, reversed his father's policies and actively set about developing the country's infrastructure and initiated the building of the Suez Canal which was completed in 1869 by his successor the Khedive Ismail. Under his rule, industrial and civil infrastructure was further developed. More factories were built. A telegraph and postal system was established. Canals and bridges were constructed and the cotton industry which had been introduced during the reign of Mohammed Ali, began to flourish as a result of the American Civil war which prevented southern cotton production for the duration of the war. However, all this expansion had a price. Ismail's modernization put Egypt heavily into debt and the end of the Civil War and resumption of American cotton production caused a major recession in Egypt's cotton industry. As a result of this economic crisis, Khedive Ismail was forced to abdicate in 1879 and the British began to assume greater control over the country.
Muḥammad ʿAlī, also called Mehmed Ali (born 1769, Kavala, Macedonia, Ottoman Empire [now in Greece]—died August 2, 1849, Alexandria, Egypt), pasha and viceroy of Egypt (1805–48), founder of the dynasty that ruled Egypt from the beginning of the 19th century to the middle of the 20th. He encouraged the emergence of the modern Egyptian state.
Muḥammad ʿAlī’s ethnic background is unknown, though he may have been an Albanian and was certainly a Muslim and an Ottoman subject. His father, Ibrahim Agha, the commander of a small provincial military force that was maintained by the governor of Kavala, died when Muḥammad ʿAlī was a boy, and he was brought up by the governor. At 18 he was married to one of the governor’s relatives, who became the mother of five of Muḥammad ʿAlī’s 95 children. He became involved in the tobacco trade, an experience that may account for his later commercial interests.
In 1798 Egypt, at that time a semiautonomous province of the Ottoman Empire, was occupied by a French force under Napoleon Bonaparte. Muḥammad ʿAlī arrived there in 1801 as second in command of a 300-man Albanian regiment sent by the Ottoman government to oust the French from Egypt. With great political skill, he managed by 1805 to be named the wālī, the Ottoman sultan’s viceroy in Egypt, with the rank of pasha.
Nowhere in the Ottoman Empire was there greater opportunity for a total restructuring of society than in Egypt. The three-year French occupation (1798–1801) had disrupted the country’s traditional political and economic structure. Continuing the task begun by the French, Muḥammad ʿAlī put an end to Egypt’s traditional society. He eliminated the Mamlūks, the former ruling oligarchy, expropriated the old landholding classes, turned the religious class into pensioners of the government, restricted the activities of the native merchant and artisan groups, neutralized the Bedouins, and crushed all movements of rebellion among the peasants. The task of rebuilding Egypt along modern lines now lay before him.
But, though Muḥammad ʿAlī had considerable native intelligence and great personal charm, he was a man of limited knowledge and narrow horizons. He proved insensitive to the possibilities open to him and governed generally according to Ottoman principles. No group within Egyptian society was capable of forcing fundamental changes upon him; elements that might have served as the instruments of change had been crushed at the outset of his regime. Neither was there an ideology capable of bringing together the ruler and the ruled in a great national effort. Finally, Muḥammad ʿAlī had to devote much of his effort to resisting attempts by his Ottoman overlord to remove him from office. His policies were designed more to entrench himself and his family in Egypt as its hereditary rulers than to create a new society.
To strengthen his position within Egypt and to increase his revenues, Muḥammad ʿAlī instituted sweeping changes. By 1815 most of Egypt’s agricultural land had been converted into state land, and profits from agriculture became available to the ruler. He improved Egypt’s irrigation system, on which its agriculture depended; he introduced new crops, such as cotton, which promised high cash returns; and he reorganized the administrative structure of the government to ensure strict control of the economy. He also attempted to construct a modern industrial system to process Egypt’s raw materials. Disbanding his mercenary army, he created a fleet and an army of Egyptians conscripted from the peasant class but commanded by Turks and others recruited from outside Egypt. To supply services for his armed forces, he created Western-style schools to train doctors, engineers, veterinarians, and other specialists. He also began sending educational missions to European countries for training in modern techniques.
His industrial experiments failed, largely because Egypt lacked sources of power, a native managerial class, and a trained working class. Even the agricultural sector declined ultimately because of administrative mismanagement, excessive taxation, military conscription of the peasantry, and his monopolization of trade. By the mid-1830s Muḥammad ʿAlī’s policy of turning Egypt into a massive plantation for his own benefit had reached a point of diminishing returns. Furthermore, his financial requirements had greatly increased because of his military campaigns.
Muḥammad ʿAlī initially supported the Ottoman sultan in suppressing rebellion both in Arabia and in Greece, and he also invaded the Nilotic Sudan in search of recruits for his army and gold for his treasury. Victorious in all three campaigns, until European intervention in Greece caused the destruction of his fleet at the Battle of Navarino in 1827, Muḥammad ʿAlī felt that he was strong enough to challenge the sultan. His first war against the sultan (1831–33) gained him control of Syria as far north as Adana. In the second war (1838–41) the decisive defeat of Ottoman troops at the Battle of Nizip (1839) and the desertion of the Ottoman fleet to Muḥammad ʿAlī led to intervention by the European powers. In July 1840, Great Britain, Russia, Austria, and Prussia agreed to end Egyptian rule in Syria, shattering Muḥammad ʿAlī’s hopes for greater independence from the Ottoman Empire. In 1841 he and his family were granted the hereditary right to rule Egypt and the Sudan, but his power was still subjected to restraints, and the sultan’s suzerain rights remained intact.
In the late 1840s, owing to his failing lucidity, Muḥammad ʿAlī retired from office. In 1848, rule was officially transferred to Muḥammad ʿAlī’s son Ibrahim, who died shortly thereafter; Muḥammad ʿAlī himself died in the following year. Although many of his reforms and institutions were abandoned—some before his death—he is nevertheless hailed as having cleared the path for the creation of an independent Egyptian state.
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Amun-Ra The Ultimate - That one went right over my head. So please tell me, what does it mean?
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quote:Originally posted by Mike111: Amun-Ra The Ultimate - That one went right over my head. So please tell me, what does it mean?
It means according to the private testing firm DNA Tribes, modern South Africans and Great Lakes Africans have the greatest DNA matches to royal Egyptians of the Amarna period in the 18th dynasty. Modern South Africans and Great Lakes Africans each have MLI (match likelihood) scores around 325. The next highest MLI score is West Africans at about 84. These figures are average MLI scores, averaged of each Amarna royal individual (some who varied greatly from one another in these MLIs). My question is is can we trust these albinos?
Amun Ra can you help out Mike with the following. Looking at these MLI scores we notice that the individual figures can be well past 100. Please explain how to interpret these numbers when we are ordinarily accustomed to looking at numerical comparisions such as haplogroup frequencies which add up to no more than 100%
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^Thank you lioness. No need to continue, that is sufficient. I kinda thought it was something like that. As I recall, it was xyyman who brought DNA Tribes into the forum conversations. Sometimes all you can do is shake your head.
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