Beyond the River: The Search for Genetic Evidence of Jewish “Lost Tribes”
This month’s Digest highlights Jewish related ancestral components in Europe, West Asia, the Indian Subcontinent, and Africa. These results are presented so that future DNA studies using segment sharing (IBD) analysis can establish the chronology of ancient “deep ancestry” links between Jewish and non-Jewish populations around the world.
Table of Contents:
Section One: Mideastern Jewish Components in Western Asia Section Two: Sephardic-Sicilian Components in Balkan and Atlantic Europe Section Three: Ashkenazi Jewish Components in the Caucasus and Indian Subcontinent Section Four: Mideastern Jewish and Sephardic-Sicilian Components in Ethiopia
Albino (so-called) scientists are funnier than a barrel of Albino Monkeys.
All sensible people must have noticed how eager Albinos are to tell us what the relationships are between say, Jews and Somalis, or whoever.
But what the Albinos DON'T tell us is "HOW THEY KNOW!"
So Lioness, can you send those tables back to the Albinos and ask them to fill in the actual Y-dna and Mtdna haplogroups.
You know, like what makes Jewish genes, Jewish genes: and "WHAT MAKES SOMALI GENES, SOMALI GENES."
BTW, if you want you can warn them that I'm waiting for their lying responses. I look forward to punishing those lying Bastards who call themselves scientists.
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quote: Bedouins, Jordanians, Palestinians and Saudi Arabians are located in close proximity to each other, which is consistent with a common origin in the Arabian Peninsula25, whereas the Egyptian, Moroccan, Mozabite Berber, and Yemenite samples are located closer to sub- Saharan populations (Fig. 1a and Supplementary Fig. 2a).
[...]
For example, Y-chromosome data point to a unique paternal genetic link between the Bene Israel community and the Levant, whereas the absence of sub-Saharan African maternal lineages in Yemenite and Moroccan Jews (in contrast to their hosts) suggests limited maternal gene flow.
[...]
Equally interesting are the inferences that can be gleaned from more distant Diaspora communities, such as the Ethiopian and Indian Jewish communities. Strong similarities to their neighbouring host populations may have resulted from one or more of the following: large-scale introgression, asymmetrical sex-biased gene flow, or religious and cultural diffusion during the process of becoming one of the many and varied Jewish communities.
[...]
Genotyping autosomal markers. Illumina 610K or 660K bead arrays were used for genotyping with standard protocols, and Bead Studio software was used to assign genotypes. PLINK 1.05 (ref. 30) was used to perform data management and QC operations. Samples and SNPs with success rates of less than 97% were excluded. A total of 475 novel samples were analysed, 121 of which were from 14 Jewish communities representing most of the known geographic range of Jews during the past 100 years. The other 354 samples were chosen from 27 non- Jewish populations to enable paired analysis with the Jewish sample set.
[...]
Principal component analysis.
PC analysis was performed with the smartpca program of the EIGENSOFT package24. To express the relative importance of the top two eigenvectors in the resulting PC plot, two axes were scaled by a factor equal to the square root of the corresponding eigenvalue (Supplementary Note 2). Our analysis was repeated for the entire set of populations and for the subset of west Eurasian populations (Supplementary Table 1). The R environment was used to perform PCA (using the function princomp) and plot the results for all analyses of uniparental data.
Structure-like analysis.
The recently introduced structure-like approach was applied as assembled in the program ADMIXTURE27 (Supplementary Notes 3 and 4). ADMIXTURE was run on our global and west Eurasian data sets 100 times in parallel at K 5 2 to K 5 10 (using random seeds). Convergence between independent runs at the same K was monitored by comparing the resulting log- likelihood scores (LLs). The minimal variation in LLs (less than 1 LL unit) within a fraction (10%) of runs with the highest LLs was assumed to be a reasonable proxy for inferring convergence28. In the global data set, convergence was observed in the case of all explored K values (K 5 2 to K 5 10). Results from runs at all values of K are shown rather than restricting the reader to one chosen K (Supplementary Note 3). To focus on population structure in the relevant regions of the Middle East and Europe we performed analyses on a data set restricted to west Eurasian samples. In this analysis, convergence was reached at K52 to K55; K57 and K58. Only K54 was highlighted in Supplemen- tary Fig. 5 because components appearing at higher values of K were predomi- nantly restricted to a single population and were therefore less informative for our purposes. Judging from the distribution of LLs of the converged K values, the maximum-likelihood solutions with LLs very close to the highest LLs were also the most frequent solutions (except for K 5 6 of the global data set). One run from the top LLs fraction of each converged K (from global and west Eurasian data set) was plotted with Excel (Supplementary Fig. 4a, b).
Allele sharing distances.
ASD was used for measuring genetic distances between populations. ASD is less sensitive to small sample size than the Fixation Index (FST) and other measures29, and more appropriate for our goal of measuring genetic distances between groups regardless of their internal diversity. Standard errors of ASD values were calculated with a bootstrap approach, accounting for variance resulting from both sample selection and site selection. ASDs between individual Jewish populations and population groups representing a geographic region or ethnic group were calculated. In each case, the population under consideration was removed from all groupings with which it was compared. To test significance of differences in pairs of ASD values in each row in Table 1, a bootstrap approach was used (Supplementary Note 5 and Supplemen- tary Tables 2 and 3).
Genotyping uniparental markers.
Our data from the Ychromosome and mtDNA were combined with previously published data sets from populations of interest (Supplementary Note 6). Markers were chosen to match the phylo- genetic level of resolution achieved in previously reported data sets. A total of 8,210 samples were assembled for Y-chromosome analysis (Supplementary Table 4). Genotypes for these sites were determined by using multiple tech- niques, such as allele-specific PCR, TaqMan, Kaspar and direct sequencing. A total of 13,919 samples were assembled for mtDNA analysis (Supplementary Table 5).
--Bayazit Yunusbayev, Oleg Balanovsky et al.
The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people
Vol 466|8 July 2010|doi:10.1038/nature09103
Received 9 December 2009; accepted 21 April 2010. Published online 9 June 2010.
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^^^ ignorant and stupid
I'm in a rush, so I skimmed it quickly, but seems interesting. What do you think?
quote: For this reason, a comprehensive sampling (including both proximate and distant, Jewish and non-Jewish populations) is needed to detect genetic traces of some early admixture events that predate the formation of present day ethnic groups in the medieval and modern periods.
--DNA Tribes® Digest May 1, 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor: Interesting references.
--Bayazit Yunusbayev, Oleg Balanovsky et al.
The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people
Vol 466|8 July 2010|doi:10.1038/nature09103
Received 9 December 2009; accepted 21 April 2010. Published online 9 June 2010. [/qb]
another intertsing quote from the above article:
quote:Most Jewish samples, other than those from Ethiopia and India, overlie non-Jewish samples fromthe Levant (Fig. 1b). The tight cluster comprising the Ashkenazi, Caucasus (Azerbaijani and Georgian), Middle Eastern (Iranian and Iraqi), north African (Moroccan) and Sephardi (Bulgarian and Turkish) Jewish communities, as well as Samaritans, strongly overlaps Israeli Druze and is centrally located on the principal component analysis (PCA) plot when compared with Middle Eastern, European Mediterranean, Anatolian and Caucasus non-Jewish populations (Fig. 1). This Jewish cluster consists of samples from most Jewish communities studied here, which together cover more than 90% of the current world Jewish population5; this is consistent with an ancestral Levantine contribution to much of contemporary Jewry. A compact cluster of Yemenite Jews, which is also located within an assemblage of Levantine samples, overlaps primarily with Bedouins but also with Saudi individuals (Fig. 1b). In contrast, Ethiopian and Indian Jews are located close to those from neighbouring host populations (Fig. 1c, d). Ethiopian Jews clustered with Semitic-speaking rather than Cushitic-speaking Ethiopians
posted
Anther beautiful references from DNA-TRIBES.
quote:Ethiopian and Yemenite Jewish Populations Form Distinctive Clusters, Whereas Georgian Jews Do Not. As noted, by PCA, Georgian Jews formed part of the Jewish cluster, whereas Yemenite and Ethiopian Jews did not. ANOVA on the PCA eigenvectors and pairwise FST analysis indicated that the Ethiopian, Yemenite, and Georgian Jewish populations were distinct and statistically different from all of the others [SI Appendix, Tables S1 (upper triangle), S2, and S3]. Ethiopian Jews fell outside of the main three Jewish ge- netic clusters with the highest average genetic differentiation compared with all other Jewish groups (FST = 0.047). They were most closely related to non-Jewish Libyans and South Moroccans (FST = 0.019) and then to the other North African and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations. Their closest (yet still quite dis- tant) Jewish neighbors were Yemenite Jews (FST = 0.038). Like-wise, they showed little IBD sharing with other Jewish populations
(Fig. 3). By STRUCTURE analysis, their ancestry appeared to be of North African, Middle Eastern, and sub-Saharan origin with little European contribution (Fig. 4).
Despite forming a cluster on PCA and neighbor-joining tree that appeared intermediate to Jews and Middle Eastern non- Jews, the Yemenite Jews were genetically closest to Egyptians by FST (0.008), followed by Middle Eastern non-Jews, then Turkish and Greek Jews (FST = 0.010 and 0.012, respectively); however, their mean FST to all other Jewish populations was similar to that of all other Jewish populations with the exception of Ethiopian Jews (SI Appendix, Fig. S4). Their mean levels of IBD sharing with Jewish populations were comparable to the mean levels of IBD sharing of other Jewish populations, except Ethiopian Jews (SI Appendix, Fig. S4). By STRUCTURE analysis, their inferred ancestry was predominantly Middle Eastern and North African with little European contribution.
As noted, the Georgian Jewish cluster overlapped the overall Jewish cluster, and the Georgian Jewish subbranch on the neighborjoining tree was intermediate to those of Iranian and Iraqi Jews and the Adygei. The Georgian Jews had a low FST compared with Se- phardic Jews (mean FST = 0.009), despite their similarity with Iranian and Iraqi Jews in the neighbor-joining tree and PC analysis. By pairwise IBD sharing with other Jewish populations, the Georgian Jews fell within the pattern of Jewish relatedness. By STRUCTURE analysis, their inferred ancestry was predominantly Middle Eastern and European, with little North African contri- bution. Notably, they shared a small proportion of the unique K = 7 (green) component that was observed in the Iranian and Iraqi Jewish populations, which may be due to either small sample size or genetic drift and founder effect.
[...]
These observations are consonant with the history of Jews in North Africa, which stretch back to the earliest recorded history of the region (1–4, 20). Israelite traders may have been among the earliest Phoenician traders who colonized the African coast and established Carthage. The first evidence for Jews in North Africa is from 312 Before Common Era when King Ptolemy Lagi of Egypt settled Jews in the cities of Cyrenaica in current-day Tunisia. The later Pax Romana facilitated communication among the Jewish communities of the Mediterranean Basin and assured establish- ment of Judaism in the two African provinces of Proconsular (Libya and Tunisia) and Caesarean (Algeria and Morocco)— reflecting the current subbranches. Following the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem by Roman Emperor Titus in 70 Common Era (CE), 30,000 Jews were deported to Carthage in current-day Tunisia. Josephus reported the presence of 500,000 Jews in Cyrenaica in the 1st century CE. Jewish communities have been identified from the synagogue remains at Carthage and at least 13 other sites, and Saint Augustine wrote about Jewish communities at Utica, Simittra, Thusurus, and Oea. Thus, Jewish communities originated in pre-Classical Antiquity and expanded during Classical Antiquity to grow quite large and cover a signifi- cant proportion of North Africa.
[...]
Etc. Page 5/6
--Christopher L. Campbell, Brenna M. Henn, Carlos D. Bustamante et al.
North African Jewish and non-Jewish populations form distinctive, orthogonal clusters
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quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor: Interesting references.
--Bayazit Yunusbayev, Oleg Balanovsky et al.
The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people
Vol 466|8 July 2010|doi:10.1038/nature09103
Received 9 December 2009; accepted 21 April 2010. Published online 9 June 2010.
another intertsing quote from the above article:
quote:Most Jewish samples, other than those from Ethiopia and India, overlie non-Jewish samples fromthe Levant (Fig. 1b). The tight cluster comprising the Ashkenazi, Caucasus (Azerbaijani and Georgian), Middle Eastern (Iranian and Iraqi), north African (Moroccan) and Sephardi (Bulgarian and Turkish) Jewish communities, as well as Samaritans, strongly overlaps Israeli Druze and is centrally located on the principal component analysis (PCA) plot when compared with Middle Eastern, European Mediterranean, Anatolian and Caucasus non-Jewish populations (Fig. 1). This Jewish cluster consists of samples from most Jewish communities studied here, which together cover more than 90% of the current world Jewish population5; this is consistent with an ancestral Levantine contribution to much of contemporary Jewry. A compact cluster of Yemenite Jews, which is also located within an assemblage of Levantine samples, overlaps primarily with Bedouins but also with Saudi individuals (Fig. 1b). In contrast, Ethiopian and Indian Jews are located close to those from neighbouring host populations (Fig. 1c, d). Ethiopian Jews clustered with Semitic-speaking rather than Cushitic-speaking Ethiopians
"The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms"
The origin of Eastern European Jews, (EEJ) by far the largest and most important Ashkenazi population, and their affinities to other Jewish and European populations are still not resolved.
Studies that compared them by genetic distance analysis of autosomal markers to European Mediterranean populations revealed that they are closer to Europeans than to other Jewish populations [1-3].
In contrast, according to the Y-chromosomal haplogroups EEJ are closest to the non-Jewish populations of the Eastern Mediterranean (table 3, figure 4).
"EEJ are the largest and most investigated Jewish community, yet their history as Franco-German Jewry is known to us only since their appearance in the 9th century, and their subsequent migration a few hundred years later to Eastern Europe [4,5]. Where did these Jews come from? It seems that they came to Germany and France from Italy [5-8].
It is also possible that some Jews migrated northward from the Italian colonies on the northern shore of the Black Sea [9]. All these Jews are likely the descendents of proselytes.
Conversion to Judaism was common in Rome in the first centuries BC and AD. Judaism gained many followers among all ranks of Roman Society [10-13]."
The autosomal genetic distance analysis presented here clearly demonstrates that the investigated Jewish populations do not share a common origin.
The resemblance of EEJ to Italians and other European populations portrays them as an autochthonous European population.
**The demographic histories of three Jewish populations exemplify how different demographic patterns make the uniparental markers more reliable for Iraqi (Babylonian) Jews and Yemenite Jews and less reliable for EEJ. Both Yemenite Jews and Iraqi Jews resemble populations from their regions of origin according to autosomal markers [1,3,30-32].
**Babylonian Jews numbered more than a million in the first century AD [35], and constituted the majority of the population in the area between the Euphrates and the Tigris in the 2nd-3rd centuries AD [36]. Gilbert [37] estimates that by 600 AD there were 806,000 Jews in Mesopotamia, and according to Sassoon [38] it was inhabited by about a million Jews in the 7th century. In the 14th century the estimates for Baghdad alone range from 70,000 to hundreds thousands [38].
*By comparing the structure of the STRs network among the various Ashkenazi populations and among the various European non-Jewish populations they reached the conclusion that a single male founder introduced this haplogroup into Ashkenazi Jews in the first millennium.
Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin1,2,3 et al.
The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms
1 Department of Haematology and Genetic Pathology, School of Medicine, Flinders University, Adelaide, Australia 2 Department of Human Genetics, Sackler Faculty of Medicine, Tel-Aviv University, Israel 3 Current Address: Blood Bank, Sheba Medical Center, Ramat-Gan 52621, Israel
posted
Here is another interesting take from DNA-Tribes.
quote: The recent genealogical history of human populations is a complex mosaic formed by individual migration, large-scale population movements, and other demographic events. Population genomics datasets can provide a window into this recent history, as rare traces of recent shared genetic ancestry are detectable due to long segments of shared genomic material. We make use of genomic data for 2,257 Europeans (in the Population Reference Sample [POPRES] dataset) to conduct one of the first surveys of recent genealogical ancestry over the past 3,000 years at a continental scale. We detected 1.9 million shared long genomic segments, and used the lengths of these to infer the distribution of shared ancestors across time and geography. We find that a pair of modern Europeans living in neighboring populations share around 2–12 genetic common ancestors from the last 1,500 years, and upwards of 100 genetic ancestors from the previous 1,000 years. These numbers drop off exponentially with geographic distance, but since these genetic ancestors are a tiny fraction of common genealogical ancestors, individuals from opposite ends of Europe are still expected to share millions of common genealogical ancestors over the last 1,000 years. There is also substantial regional variation in the number of shared genetic ancestors. For example, there are especially high numbers of common ancestors shared between many eastern populations that date roughly to the migration period (which includes the Slavic and Hunnic expansions into that region). Some of the lowest levels of common ancestry are seen in the Italian and Iberian peninsulas, which may indicate different effects of historical population expansions in these areas and/or more stably structured populations. Population genomic datasets have considerable power to uncover recent demographic history, and will allow a much fuller picture of the close genealogical kinship of individuals across the world.
[...]
Discussion
Genetic common ancestry within the last 2,500 years across Europe has been shaped by diverse demographic and historical events. There are both continental trends, such as a decrease of shared ancestry with distance; regional patterns, such as higher IBD in eastern and northern populations; and diverse outlying signals. We have furthermore quantified numbers of genetic common ancestors that populations share with each other back through time, albeit with a (unavoidably) coarse temporal resolution. These numbers are intriguing not only because of the differences between populations, which reflect historical events, but the high degree of implied genealogical commonality between even geographically distant populations.
[...]
Ubiquity of common ancestry.
We have shown that typical pairs of individuals drawn from across Europe have a good chance of sharing long stretches of identity by descent, even when they are separated by thousands of kilometers. We can furthermore conclude that pairs of individuals across Europe are reasonably likely to share common genetic ancestors within the last 1,000 years, and are certain to share many within the last 2,500 years. From our numerical results, the average number of genetic common ancestors from the last 1,000 years shared by individuals living at least 2,000 km apart is about 1/32 (and at least 1/80); between 1,000 and 2,000ya they share about one; and between 2,000 and 3,000 ya they share above 10.
[...]
The fact that most people alive today in Europe share nearly the same set of (European, and possibly world-wide) ancestors from only 1,000 years ago seems to contradict the signals of long-term, albeit subtle, population genetic structure within Europe (e.g., [13],[14]). These two facts can be reconciled by the fact that even though the distribution of ancestors (as cartooned in Figure 1B) has spread to cover the continent, there remain differences in degree of relatedness of modern individuals to these ancestral individuals. For example, someone in Spain may be related to an ancestor in the Iberian peninsula through perhaps 1,000 different routes back through the pedigree, but to an ancestor in the Baltic region by only 10 different routes, so that the probability that this Spanish individual inherited genetic material from the Iberian ancestor is roughly 100 times higher. This allows the amount of genetic material shared by pairs of extant individuals to vary even if the set of ancestors is constant.
[...]
The Signal of History
As we have shown, patterns of IBD provide ample but noisy geographic and temporal signals, which can then be connected to historical events. Rigorously making such connections is difficult, due to the complex recent history of Europe, controversy about the demographic significance of many events, and uncertainties in inferring the ages of common ancestors. Nonetheless, our results can be plausibly connected to several historical and demographic events.
The migration period.
One of the striking patterns we see is the relatively high level of sharing of IBD between pairs of individuals across eastern Europe, as high or higher than that observed within other, much smaller populations. This is consistent with these individuals having a comparatively large proportion of ancestry drawn from a relatively small population that expanded over a large geographic area. The “smooth” estimates of Figure 4 (and more generally Figures 5 and S17) suggest that this increase in ancestry stems from around 1,000–2,000 ya, since during this time pairs of eastern individuals are expected to share a substantial number of common ancestors, while this is only true of pairs of noneastern individuals if they are from the same population. For example, even individuals from widely separated eastern populations share about the same amount of IBD as do two Irish individuals (see Figure S3), suggesting that this ancestral population may have been relatively small.
This evidence is consistent with the idea that these populations derive a substantial proportion of their ancestry from various groups that expanded during the “migration period” from the fourth through ninth centuries [51]. This period begins with the Huns moving into eastern Europe towards the end of the fourth century, establishing an empire including modern-day Hungary and Romania, and continues in the fifth century as various Germanic groups moved into and ruled much of the western Roman empire. This was followed by the expansion of the Slavic populations into regions of low population density beginning in the sixth century, reaching their maximum by the 10th century [52]. The eastern populations with high rates of IBD are highly coincident with the modern distribution of Slavic languages, so it is natural to speculate that much of the higher rates were due to this expansion. The inclusion of (non-Slavic speaking) Hungary and Romania in the group of eastern populations sharing high IBD could indicate the effect of other groups (e.g., the Huns) on ancestry in these regions, or because some of the same group of people who elsewhere are known as Slavs adopted different local cultures in those regions. Greece and Albania are also part of this putative signal of expansion, which could be because the Slavs settled in part of these areas (with unknown demographic effect), or because of subsequent population exchange. However, additional work and methods would be needed to verify this hypothesis.
The highest levels of IBD sharing are found in the Albanian-speaking individuals (from Albania and Kosovo), an increase in common ancestry deriving from the last 1,500 years. This suggests that a reasonable proportion of the ancestors of modern-day Albanian speakers (at least those represented in POPRES) are drawn from a relatively small, cohesive population that has persisted for at least the last 1,500 years. These individuals share similar but slightly higher numbers of common ancestors with nearby populations than do individuals in other parts of Europe (see Figure S3), implying that these Albanian speakers have not been a particularly isolated population so much as a small one. Furthermore, our Greek and Macedonian samples share much higher numbers of common ancestors with Albanian speakers than with other neighbors, possibly a result of historical migrations, or else perhaps smaller effects of the Slavic expansion in these populations. It is also interesting to note that the sampled Italians share nearly as much IBD with Albanian speakers as with each other. The Albanian language is a Indo-European language without other close relatives [53] that persisted through periods when neighboring languages were strongly influenced by Latin or Greek, suggesting an intriguing link between linguistic and genealogical history in this case.
Italy, Iberia, and France.
On the other hand, we find that France and the Italian and Iberian peninsulas have the lowest rates of genetic common ancestry in the last 1,500 years (other than Turkey and Cyprus), and are the regions of continental Europe thought to have been least affected by the Slavic and Hunnic migrations. These regions were, however, moved into by Germanic tribes (e.g., the Goths, Ostrogoths, and Vandals), which suggests that perhaps the Germanic migrations/invasions of these regions entailed a smaller degree of population replacement than the Slavic and/or Hunnic, or perhaps that the Germanic groups were less genealogically cohesive. This is consistent with the argument that the Slavs moved into relatively depopulated areas, while Gothic “migrations” may have been takeovers by small groups of extant populations [54],[55].
In addition to the very few genetic common ancestors that Italians share both with each other and with other Europeans, we have seen significant modern substructure within Italy (i.e., Figure 2) that predates most of this common ancestry, and estimate that most of the common ancestry shared between Italy and other populations is older than about 2,300 years (Figure S16). Also recall that most populations show no substructure with regards to the number of blocks shared with Italians, implying that the common ancestors other populations share with Italy predate divisions within these other populations. This suggests significant old substructure and large population sizes within Italy, strong enough that different groups within Italy share as little recent common ancestry as other distinct, modern-day countries, substructure that was not homogenized during the migration period. These patterns could also reflect in part geographic isolation within Italy as well as a long history of settlement of Italy from diverse sources.
--Peter Ralph, Graham Coop
The Geography of Recent Genetic Ancestry across Europe
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quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
"The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms"
The origin of Eastern European Jews, (EEJ) by far the largest and most important Ashkenazi population, and their affinities to other Jewish and European populations are still not resolved.
It is also possible that some Jews migrated northward from the Italian colonies on the northern shore of the Black Sea [9]. All these Jews are likely the descendents of proselytes.
"EEJ are the largest and most investigated Jewish community, yet their history as Franco-German Jewry is known to us only since their appearance in the 9th century, and their subsequent migration a few hundred years later to Eastern Europe [4,5]. Where did these Jews come from? It seems that they came to Germany and France from Italy [5-8].
also from that study:
"EEJ are Europeans probably of Roman descent who converted to Judaism at times, when Judaism was the first monotheistic religion that spread in the ancient world. Any other theory about their origin is not supported by the genetic data. Future studies will have to address their genetic affinities to various Italian populations and examine the possibility of other components both European and Non-European in their gene pool." The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms. "
____________________________
^ This 2010 article says Eastern European Jews, (EEJ) by far the largest and most important Ashkenazi population, probably of Roman descent who converted to Judaism.
Although there were Jews in ancient Rome I don't see evidence in the 2014 Dna Tribes report supporting them having deep Italian ancestry
The history of the Jews in Italy spans more than two thousand years. The Jewish presence in Italy dates to the pre-Christian Roman period and has continued, despite periods of extreme persecutions and expulsions from parts from time to time, until the present. As of 2007, the estimated core Jewish population in Italy numbers around 45,000.
The first attested Jews in Italy were the ambassadors sent to Rome by Judah Maccabee in 161 BCE, Jason son of Eleazar and Eupolemus son of John son of Accos (1 Maccabees 8:17-20). According to I Maccabees they signed a treaty with the Roman Senate, although modern scholars like historian A.N. Sherwin-White argue that this embassy did not happen.[citation needed] It is known more certainly that an embassy was sent later by Simon Maccabeus to Rome to strengthen the alliance with the Romans against the Hellenistic Seleucid kingdom. The ambassadors received a cordial welcome from their coreligionists already established in Rome. Large numbers of Jews lived in Rome even during the late Roman Republican period. They were largely Greek-speaking and poor. As Rome had increasing contact with and military/trade dealings with the Greek-speaking Levant, during the 2nd and 1st centuries BCE, many Greeks, as well as Jews, came to Rome as merchants or were brought there as slaves.
Jews in pre-Christian Rome were very active in proselytising Romans in their faith, leading to an increasing number of outright converts, as well as those who adopted some Jewish practices and belief in the Jewish God without actually converting (called God-fearers). The fate of Jews in Rome and Italy fluctuated, with partial expulsions being carried out under the emperors Tiberius and Claudius. After the successive Jewish revolts of 66 and 132 CE, many Judean Jews were brought to Rome as slaves (the norm in the ancient world was for prisoners of war and inhabitants of defeated cities to be sold as slaves). These revolts caused increasing official hostility from the reign of Vespasian onwards.
Jews have lived in Italy without interruption from the days of the Maccabees until the present, through a period of more than 21 centuries. Although a general expulsion was never issued for the Jews of Italy, there were frequently partial ones. The Jewish community often enjoyed good relationships with the rulers and general population, and at times in history were even granted special privileges. The community, however, remained relatively small and private, though it continued faithful to their traditions. The record of Italian Jewry provides one of the most complex and fascinating chapters in the history of the Jewish Diaspora. The Jewish population in Italy today is approximately 28,000.
Probably preceded by individual Jews who visited Italy as traders, a Jewish embassy was dispatched to Rome in 161 B.C.E. by Judah Maccabee to conclude a political treaty with the Roman senate. It was followed by others sent by his brother Jonathan 15 years later, by Simeon in 139, and by Hyrcanus I in 133. In 139, either these emissaries or the other Jews living in Rome were apparently accused of conducting religious propaganda among the Roman population and expelled from the city. However, the decree soon became obsolete. Jewish prisoners taken by Pompey during his invasion of Ereẓ Israel, 63–61 B.C.E., were brought to Italy, but most were probably freed after a short time. Julius Caesar , who considered that the Jews represented a cohesive element in the Roman world, granted them certain exemptions to enable them to fulfill their religious duties. These exemptions were subsequently confirmed by most of the Roman emperors. Under Augustus , the number of Jews in the capital increased. In 19 C.E., during the reign of Tiberius , his minister Sejanus deported 4,000 Jewish youths to Sardinia to fight banditry, ostensibly to punish the Jews for having tried to defraud a woman of the Roman nobility.
From the end of the second century until the beginning of the fourth, the Jewish settlements in the Diaspora, although proselytizing intensely, did not encounter opposition from the Romans, though Septimius Severus in 204 prohibited conversion to Judaism. The Christian communities, however, which expanded rapidly and proved intransigent, were severely dealt with. The fact that the Jews in Italy were of petty bourgeois or even servile origin, and that they were not infrequently suspected of opposing Roman policy abroad, prevented individual Jews from attaining prominence in economic or social life.
It has been estimated that there were 50,000 Jews in Italy during the first century of the empire, of whom over half were concentrated in or around Rome. In the capital, they engaged in humble occupations and lived in the proletarian sections. Cultural standards were not high, although there were painters, actors, and poets. The communities centered on the synagogues, of which 12 are known to have existed in Rome, although not contemporaneously. The ruins of one have been discovered in Ostia . Their knowledge of Hebrew was rudimentary.
________________________________
^^^ The first Jews in Italy in the 2nd century may have been traders and slaves. exactly where they were from originally seems uncertain and also of what proportion they were to Italian Romans they coverted while they were allowed to
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quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
"The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms"
The origin of Eastern European Jews, (EEJ) by far the largest and most important Ashkenazi population, and their affinities to other Jewish and European populations are still not resolved.
It is also possible that some Jews migrated northward from the Italian colonies on the northern shore of the Black Sea [9]. All these Jews are likely the descendents of proselytes.
"EEJ are the largest and most investigated Jewish community, yet their history as Franco-German Jewry is known to us only since their appearance in the 9th century, and their subsequent migration a few hundred years later to Eastern Europe [4,5]. Where did these Jews come from? It seems that they came to Germany and France from Italy [5-8].
also from that study:
"EEJ are Europeans probably of Roman descent who converted to Judaism at times, when Judaism was the first monotheistic religion that spread in the ancient world. Any other theory about their origin is not supported by the genetic data. Future studies will have to address their genetic affinities to various Italian populations and examine the possibility of other components both European and Non-European in their gene pool." The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms. "
____________________________
^ This 2010 article says Eastern European Jews, (EEJ) by far the largest and most important Ashkenazi population, probably of Roman descent who converted to Judaism.
Although there were Jews in ancient Rome I don't see evidence in the 2014 Dna Tribes report supporting them having deep Italian ancestry
^^^ The first Jews in Italy in the 2nd century may have been traders and slaves. exactly where they were from originally seems uncertain and also of what proportion they were to Italian Romans they coverted while they were allowed to
I am not surprised at all, by that outcome.
Yiddish:
History & Development of Yiddish, by David Shyovitz:
quote:Yiddish, the language of Ashkenazic Jewry, arose some 900–1200 years ago as a result of contact with indigenous varieties of medieval German. Over the next few centuries, it grew to cover the second-largest language area in Europe, with Yiddish-speaking colonies being created in North and South America, Palestine/Israel, Australia and South Africa. It is estimated that just before the Nazi genocide in World War II, there were between 11 and 13 million Yiddish speakers worldwide. This broad yet comprehensive 2005 introduction provides an authoritative overview of all aspects of Yiddish language and linguistics. As well as looking at key features of its syntax, phonology and morphology, Neil Jacobs discusses its history, its dialectology, and the sociolinguistic issues surrounding it. Presenting linguistic data in a way that is compatible with general theoretical issues, it will be welcomed by scholars of general linguistics, Germanic linguistics, and Jewish Studies alike.
Study identifies genetic signatures for 3.5 million Ashkenazi Jews
NEW YORK — About 3.5 million of today’s Ashkenazi Jews — 40 percent of the total Ashkenazi population — are descended from just four women, a genetic study indicates. Those women apparently lived somewhere in Europe within the last 2,000 years, but not necessarily in the same place or even the same century, said lead author Dr. Doron Behar of the Rambam Medical Center in Haifa, Israel.
He did the work with Karl Skorecki of the Technion-Israel Institute of Technology and others.
Each woman left a genetic signature that shows up in their descendants today, he and colleagues say in a report published online by the American Journal of Human Genetics. Together, their four signatures appear in about 40 percent of Ashkenazi Jews, while being virtually absent in non-Jews and found only rarely in Jews of non-Ashkenazi origin, the researchers said.
They said the total Ashkenazi population is estimated at around 8 million people. The estimated world Jewish population is about 13 million.
Ashkenazi Jews are a group with mainly central and eastern European ancestry. Ultimately, though, they can be traced back to Jews who migrated from Israel to Italy in the first and second centuries, Behar said. Eventually this group moved to Eastern Europe in the 12th and 13th centuries and expanded greatly, reaching about 10 million just before World War II, he said.
Maternal lineages traced
The study involved mitochondrial DNA, called mtDNA, which is passed only through the mother. A woman can pass her mtDNA to grandchildren only by having daughters. So mtDNA is “the perfect tool to trace maternal lineages,” Behar said Thursday in a telephone interview.
His study involved analyzing mtDNA from more than 11,000 samples representing 67 populations.
Mike Hammer, who does similar research at the University of Arizona, said he found the work tracing back to just four ancestors “quite plausible ... I think they’ve done a really good job of tackling this question.”
But he said it’s not clear the women lived in Europe.
“They may have existed in the Near East,” Hammer said. “We don’t know exactly where the four women were, but their descendants left a legacy in the population today, whereas ... other women’s descendants did not.”
Behar said the four women he referred to did inherit their genetic signatures from female ancestors who lived in the Near East. But he said he preferred to focus on these later European descendants because they were at the root of the Ashkenazi population explosion.
quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
"The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms"
The origin of Eastern European Jews, (EEJ) by far the largest and most important Ashkenazi population, and their affinities to other Jewish and European populations are still not resolved.
It is also possible that some Jews migrated northward from the Italian colonies on the northern shore of the Black Sea [9]. All these Jews are likely the descendents of proselytes.
"EEJ are the largest and most investigated Jewish community, yet their history as Franco-German Jewry is known to us only since their appearance in the 9th century, and their subsequent migration a few hundred years later to Eastern Europe [4,5]. Where did these Jews come from? It seems that they came to Germany and France from Italy [5-8].
also from that study:
"EEJ are Europeans probably of Roman descent who converted to Judaism at times, when Judaism was the first monotheistic religion that spread in the ancient world. Any other theory about their origin is not supported by the genetic data. Future studies will have to address their genetic affinities to various Italian populations and examine the possibility of other components both European and Non-European in their gene pool." The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms. "
____________________________
^ This 2010 article says Eastern European Jews, (EEJ) by far the largest and most important Ashkenazi population, probably of Roman descent who converted to Judaism.
Although there were Jews in ancient Rome I don't see evidence in the 2014 Dna Tribes report supporting them having deep Italian ancestry
^^^ The first Jews in Italy in the 2nd century may have been traders and slaves. exactly where they were from originally seems uncertain and also of what proportion they were to Italian Romans they coverted while they were allowed to
As a matter of fact Romans are responsible for the destruction of the second temple. And no doubt Romans have enslaved the Hebrews. Slaughtered the men, kidnapped the women and children and brainwashed the children over generations.
quote: Scholars Debate Roots of Yiddish, Migration of Jews
TRYING to trace the ancient roots of a modern language is always a maddeningly ambiguous and uncertain enterprise. With Yiddish, the language of the Ashkenazic Jews of Central and Eastern Europe, the task is even harder because of the horrifying fact that most of the speakers were exterminated in the Holocaust.
As a result, the study of Yiddish origins -- and especially the touchy issue of its relationship to German -- has sometimes been criticized as one in which rational analysis has been overwhelmed by emotion. But a number of recent studies are now being welcomed by linguists as evidence that the field is turning into a solid science.
''There are now signs that the history of Yiddish is becoming a scientific enterprise instead of the mythological exercise it used to be,'' said Dr. Jerrold Sadock, a linguist at the University of Chicago.
By trying to reconstruct the original Yiddish, linguists hope to explain the origins of this rich language, in which a largely Germanic grammar and vocabulary is mixed with Hebrew and Aramaic, and sprinkled with words from Slavic and ancient Romance languages. The question they hope to answer is whether Yiddish began in Western Europe and spread eastward, as the common wisdom holds -- or whether, as an increasing number of scholars now believe, its origins lie farther east. One linguist has recently argued that Yiddish began as a Slavic language that was ''relexified,'' with most of its vocabulary replaced with German words.
Arching over these questions is the central mystery of just where the Jews of Eastern Europe came from. Many historians believe that there were not nearly enough Jews in Western Europe to account for the huge population that later flourished in Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine and nearby areas.
By reconstructing the Yiddish mother tongue, linguists hope to plot the migration of the Jews and their language with a precision never possible before. It has even been suggested, on the basis of linguistic evidence, that the Jews of Eastern Europe were not predominantly part of the diaspora from the Middle East, but were members of another ethnic group that adopted Judaism.
''Yiddish is widely perceived as a very special language,'' said Dr. Alexis Manaster Ramer, a linguist at Wayne State University in Detroit. ''If this is correct, the explanation might lie precisely in the historical uniqueness of the circumstances which produced Yiddish.''
The revival of the field is due, in part, to a mammoth project at Columbia University to map the dialects of Yiddish, plotting precisely where on the European continent the many variations were once spoken. After decades of preparation, ''The Language and Culture Atlas of Ashkenazic Jewry'' began appearing in 1992, with volume one. The third installment was recently sent to the printers and is due out next year from the publisher Max Niemeyer in Tubingen, Germany. At least seven more volumes are planned.
This accumulating evidence is being eagerly seized by linguists intent on tracing the roots of Yiddish. ''The atlas is a fabulous tool for doing this kind of work,'' said Dr. Robert D. King, who holds the Audre and Bernard Rapoport Chair of Jewish Studies at the University of Texas at Austin. Work on the project began in the early 1960's after Dr. Uriel Weinreich of Columbia University and his wife, the folklorist Beatrice Silverman Weinreich, began an effort to interview some 600 Yiddish-speaking immigrants in Israel, the Alsace region of France, the United States, Canada and Mexico. When Dr. Weinreich died in 1967, the project was taken over by Dr. Marvin Herzog.
''The atlas is of monumental importance to the field of Yiddish studies,'' said Dr. Neil Jacobs, a linguist at Ohio State University in Columbus. The detailed interviews, each lasting some 15 hours and including more than 3,000 questions, provide an usually exact picture of both Yiddish dialects and culture. The atlas is so precise that it can show the line of demarcation separating Eastern European Jews who sugared their gefilte fish from those who did not, or between those who ate tomatoes and those who considered them ''tref,'' or unclean, because of their blood red color. The linguistic information is just as precise -- charting, for example, differences in the pronunciation of the word ''flaysh,'' or flesh.
The emergence of this rich lode of information is expected to provide the kind of hard evidence that linguists need to separate hypothesis from speculation.
For centuries it was widely assumed that Yiddish was just broken German, more of a linguistic mishmash than a true language. Even the language's own speakers called it ''Zhargon,'' meaning jargon. In the early 20th century, linguists found evidence that Yiddish and modern German were of equal stature -- parallel offshoots of the same Germanic mother tongue. The other components of Yiddish were explained as superficial borrowings grafted onto an essentially Germanic language.
After the horrors of World War II, some Jewish scholars set out to distance Yiddish from German and show that it was a unique cultural creation of the Jews. The main champion of this view was Dr. Max Weinreich, the father of Uriel Weinreich and the driving force behind the YIVO Institute for Jewish Research, which began in Vilna, Lithuania, and is now in Manhattan. Noting that Yiddish includes a few words from Old Italian and Old French, Dr. Weinreich argued that it began as a Romance language that was later Germanized. In this view, Yiddish was invented by Jews who had arrived in Europe with the Roman army as traders, later settling in the Rhineland of western Germany and northern France. Mixing Hebrew, Aramaic and Romance with German, they produced a unique language, not just a dialect of German.
Pushed eastward by the religious zealotry arising from the medieval Crusades and the Black Plague, which fanatical Christians blamed on the Jews, the speakers of Yiddish re-established themselves in Poland and surrounding areas, where the language picked up its Slavic content. According to this now dominant theory, there were very few Jews in Eastern Europe before the great immigration from the west. Yiddish is seen as a largely Western European phenomenon.
As appealing as this theory has been to Jews who wish to divorce the language from that of their Nazi persecutors, corroborating linguistic evidence has been sparse. Even more troublesome are demographic studies indicating that during the Middle Ages there were no more than 25,000 to 35,000 Jews in Western Europe. These figures are hard to reconcile with other studies showing that by the 17th century there were hundreds of thousands of Jews in Eastern Europe.
''You just can't get those numbers by natural population increase,'' Dr. King said. In a paper published in 1992, he argued that the origins of Yiddish were not in the Rhineland but eastward along the Danube -- in Bavaria and as far east as Hungary and the Czech and Slovak lands. From there, he argues, the language radiated both westward, into the Rhineland, and eastward into Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and other areas.
Dr. King bases his conclusion on work he began in the 1980's with Dr. Alice Faber, a linguist now at Haskins Laboratories in New Haven, Conn. Dr. King and Dr. Faber found no significant similarities between the Yiddish of Eastern Europe and the dialects of German spoken in the Rhineland. They uncovered a few similarities between Yiddish and East Central German, spoken as far east as Poland. (For example, German diphthongs like ie and uo were compressed in both languages, so that ''knie'' (knee) was rendered ''kni.'' But the most striking resemblances were between Yiddish and Bavarian, a dialect of German. ''Yiddish resembles nothing more closely than medieval Bavarian,'' Dr. King said.
For example, both Bavarian and Yiddish differ from German in that they have lost a pronunciation rule called final devoicing. Germans pronounce ''Tag'' (day) as though it ended in k and ''Rad'' (wheel) as though it ended in t. But in Yiddish and Bavarian the two words are pronounced ''tog'' and ''rod.'' Another example: the words ''Blume'' (flower) and ''Gasse'' (street) are pronounced with two syllables in German but with one syllable in Bavarian and Yiddish. Bavarian is the only major German dialect that, like Yiddish, has undergone these two kinds of transformations.
Dr. King concedes that a western origin for Yiddish is still possible: Jews migrating from the Rhineland may have lingered in the Danube region long enough for their language to significantly change. But he is skeptical that essentially all traces of Rhineland German could have been so completely erased.
Contrary to the common wisdom, Dr. King believes there must have already been a large population of Jews in Eastern Europe who had lived there since biblical times, coming up from the Middle East as traders speaking Hebrew and Aramaic. The Yiddish language and culture of the Danube region then diffused eastward, he says, influencing this existing population.
Historians scarcely noticed these early pioneers, Dr. King speculates, because they did not have the leisure to develop the strong scholarly tradition that existed farther west. ''The legacy of pre-Crusade Jewish life in Western Europe was a tradition of learning, of the rabbinate, of the community,'' Dr. King said. ''The legacy of early Jewish life in the Slavic East was very largely the bones of its dead.''
Some scholars believe the roots of Yiddish, and even the Ashkenazic people themselves, lie much farther east. In his 1976 book, ''The Thirteenth Tribe,'' Arthur Koestler made the startling suggestion, never taken seriously by linguists, that the Eastern European Jews were not really Semitic -- that they were largely descended from the Turkish Khazars, who converted en masse to Judaism in medieval times.
More recently, Mr. Koestler's controversial thesis has been revived and expanded in a 1993 book, ''The Ashkenazic Jews : A Slavo-Turkic People in Search of a Jewish Identity'' (Slavica Publishers), by Dr. Paul Wexler, a Tel Aviv University linguist. Dr. Wexler uses a reconstruction of Yiddish to argue that it began as a Slavic language whose vocabulary was largely replaced with German words. Going even further, he contends that the Ashkenazic Jews are predominantly converted Slavs and Turks who merged with a tiny population of Palestinian Jews from the Diaspora.
While few linguists are convinced by this radical hypothesis, the notion of a Slavic origin for Yiddish is being taken as a serious challenge to the field. ''Even if he is not absolutely right,'' said Dr. Jacobs, ''we are forced into a discussion of the issues he has raised.''
In another reconstruction of proto-Yiddish, Dr. Manaster Ramer at Wayne State has uncovered evidence that some of Yiddish's Slavic words -- like ''nebbish,'' referring to a pathetic individual -- were part of the original language that grew into modern Yiddish. He has also found traces of western German dialects. But his analysis casts doubt on the hypothesis that Yiddish is an offshoot of Bavarian.
Dr. Manaster Ramer said that while traces of Bavarian were found in the Yiddish spoken in Eastern Europe, they did not show up in Western Yiddish, once spoken in western and southern Germany, the Netherlands, Switzerland and Alsace, or in medieval texts. He proposes that the Bavarian influence entered the language after Yiddish speakers had migrated eastward.
Linguists hope that in the next few years data like those gathered for the Columbia University atlas project will help them zero in on the Yiddish homeland.
Map: ''Birth of Yiddish: Three Theories'' shows a map of Europe indicating three possible origins of Yiddish. (pg. C10)
quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor: Ashkenazi Jews are a group with mainly central and eastern European ancestry. Ultimately, though, they can be traced back to Jews who migrated from Israel to Italy in the first and second centuries, Behar said.
If you read the text, you will find that sooner or later, the Albinos will get to the BIG LIE.
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Beyond the River: The Search for Genetic Evidence of Jewish “Lost Tribes”
This month’s Digest highlights Jewish related ancestral components in Europe, West Asia, the Indian Subcontinent, and Africa. These results are presented so that future DNA studies using segment sharing (IBD) analysis can establish the chronology of ancient “deep ancestry” links between Jewish and non-Jewish populations around the world.
Table of Contents:
Section One: Mideastern Jewish Components in Western Asia Section Two: Sephardic-Sicilian Components in Balkan and Atlantic Europe Section Three: Ashkenazi Jewish Components in the Caucasus and Indian Subcontinent Section Four: Mideastern Jewish and Sephardic-Sicilian Components in Ethiopia
Your DNA is FALSE number one reason the HEBREWS are BLACK DNA EB1 ect.
Second lioness Sephardi Hebrews were expelled from Spain and Portugal in the 14th 15th centuries.
They all fled into AFRICA, first into WEST AFRICA all the way down to New Guinea and San Tome and Cape Verde islands, North Africa even Eastern Europe.
To further prove my statement that the TRUE Biblical HEBREWS are ONLY BLACK I will quote the second president of Egypt serving from 1956 until his death Gamal Abdel Nasser Hussein
Gamal-Adb-Nasir then president of Egypt made concerning the Zionist European Jews.
When Jewish settlers arrived in northeast Africa from Nazi Germany and elsewhere, Gamal Abd-an-Nasir had a premonition that they would be as ruthless as their former oppressors. he told the Zionists, in speeches and on Egyptian television
Gamal-Adb-Nasir Quote - "You will never be able to live here in peace, because you left here black, and now you have returned white. We cannot accept you"
Here Lioness some real HEBREWISMS for YOU
Historical FACT that YOU and alot of you so called Historians like to leave behind.
I have found a quote by Francisco de Moura Cortereal, Marquis of Castel Rodrigo concerning the Hebrews in Africa that were expelled from Spain and hjoined there brothers who were already in West Africa.
Quote - "In 1622 the Cape Verdean Governor, Don Francisco de Mourra, reported to the Portuguese King that the Guinea coastal rivers were "full of Jews who were masters of the local regions and were quite independent of the Crown."------JEWS IN CAPE VERDE AND ON THE GUINEA COAST by Dr. Richard Lobban
So this is proof that number one the Kings of Spain and the Kings of Britain and Sultans of Africa were in conspiracy to eliminate the Hebrew influence in West Africa. These people were sent to the AMERICAS
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quote:Originally posted by TRUTH HITMAN: Gamal-Adb-Nasir Quote - "You will never be able to live here in peace, because you left here black, and now you have returned white. We cannot accept you"
Can you give the source for this?
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quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor: Ashkenazi Jews are a group with mainly central and eastern European ancestry. Ultimately, though, they can be traced back to Jews who migrated from Israel to Italy in the first and second centuries, Behar said.
If you read the text, you will find that sooner or later, the Albinos will get to the BIG LIE.
Wars between the Jews and Romans: the destruction of Jerusalem (70 CE)
quote: This is the fourth of seven documents; it is the second of three documents dealing with the war of 66-70. The first of these can be found here. His father's accession to the Roman throne left the war against the Jews to Titus. He was not a very experienced general, but his assistant was Tiberius Julius Alexander, who had been governor of Judaea in 46-48 and knew how to fight a war. Titus' own quality was that the new emperor, his father, could trust him.
His father's strategy, to allow the Jews in Jerusalem to destroy themselves, had been successful. Besides the Zealots of Eleaser son of Simon and the private army of John of Gischala, a new leader had come to power, Simon bar Giora ("son of the proselyte"?). He was supported by men from Idumea, the southern part of Judaea that the Romans had reconquered only recently. John and Simon had different agendas. The first strove only for political freedom and minted silver coins with the legend "Freedom of Zion". Simon, on the other hand, stood at the head of a messianic movement; his copper coins have the legend "Redemption of Zion".
quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor: The first strove only for political freedom and minted silver coins with the legend "Freedom of Zion". Simon, on the other hand, stood at the head of a messianic movement; his copper coins have the legend "Redemption of Zion".
Modern scholarship admits that they don't know what Zion is/means. Yet coins were minted alluding to that very thing that modern people don't understand? It seems reasonable that ancient people would have plainly said what they were talking about: i.e. the mountain, or a place, or the nation.
Hmmm, either modern people are missing something, or those are fake coins.
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137 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
2 We hanged our harps upon the willows in the midst thereof.
3 For there they that carried us away captive required of us a song; and they that wasted us required of us mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion.
4 How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
5 If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.
6 If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy.
7 Remember, O Lord, the children of Edom in the day of Jerusalem; who said, Rase it, rase it, even to the foundation thereof.
8 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.
9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
The problem may simply be that the Albinos who wrote this Bible didn't really know much about the kingdoms of Judah and Israel, or their histories.
Modern scholarship times the above passage thusly:
QUOTE: The Egyptians however, continued to intrigue in Canaan, whose native states were repeatedly induced to join anti-Babylonian coalitions. All of which collapsed of themselves, or were crushed by the Chaldean armies. Jerusalem was twice besieged in 597 and again in 589 B.C. Finally in about 587/586 B.C, it was stormed and destroyed. The prophet Jeremiah, who had foreseen this tragic end, and who had repeatedly warned his people against their suicidal policy, died in Egypt. Judah was devastated and almost depopulated, with most of it's people sent off to Mesopotamia.
As you can see, those people were Judah's, as Israel had already been destroyed, and Judea had not yet risen.
In this context, if the Psalm is authentic, it seems that Zion might refer to the Mountain maybe?
Along the same vein, and looking at the same people (the Hebrews and the Chaldeans): Note the influence of Albinos on Biblical Art. (We can assume even greater influence upon the text after their ascension as time went by).
.
Above: Note the look of what are assumed to be Hebrew musicians in the lower left at a time before the Albinos arrived. .
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Also note the look of the Chaldeans at a time before the Albinos arrived. .
.
Now note the look of the Hebrews and Chaldeans After the Albinos Arrived. Notice how they got straighter hair?
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David Composing the Psalms, from the Paris Psalter, c. 900 C.E., tempera on vellum.
Ha,ha,ha,ha:
Now you know damn well that this Psalter was NOT made in 900 A.D.
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
quote:Originally posted by Mike111:
quote:Originally posted by TRUTH HITMAN:
Gamal-Adb-Nasir Quote - "You will never be able to live here in peace, because you left here black, and now you have returned white. We cannot accept you"
Can you give the source for this?
I first read it in a pamphlet by José V. Malcioln, a member of the W African Jewish diaspora in the Americas and past president of an India Jewish organization in New York city, but have never found his source. It appears to be an anecdote of the Ćthiopian Hebrew (Rabbis Ford & Matthew) community.
Malcioln's pamphlet was titled How the Hebrews became Jews not to be confused for his later book The African Origin of Modern Judaism: From Hebrews to Jews.
Being a recollection of media broadcasts of the 1950's how can the Nasser "quote" ever be confirmed?
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quote:Originally posted by TRUTH HITMAN: Gamal-Adb-Nasir Quote - "You will never be able to live here in peace, because you left here black, and now you have returned white. We cannot accept you"
Can you give the source for this?
quote:
Being a recollection of media broadcasts of the 1950's how can the Nasser "quote" ever be confirmed?
Common sense will, or at least Should "DIS-CONFIRM" it.
Are we to believe that a totally confused people, who live in a land that while they "Overtly" (and falsely) claim as their own: But on the other hand, acknowledge their alienation from Egypt by racially identifying themselves with another false type of people, (the non-Black Arab), which they DO claim as their own.
The official name of Kemet/Egypt is: THE "ARAB" REPUBLIC OF EGYPT!
Who could seriously suggest that these same people, could possibly bemoan the LACK of Blackness in others (the Jews), when they themselves HATE Blacks! .
In 2001 the Egyptians/Arabs/Turk Mulattoes: made their own film about Sadat, called Ayyam El Sadat "The Days of Sadat" it stared Ahmad Zaki. He is lighter than Louis Gossett, this seems to have made them much happier.
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the AMEN, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.( Revelation 3:14-15 )
(Nahum 3:9) "Ethiopia and Egypt were her strength, and it was infinite" [...]
A mountain of Ephraim Half of the tribes of Israel stand on, to respond Amen to the curses of the law (Deuteronomy 11:29;27:12,13; Joshua 8:33)
Amon, or Amen
(the mysterious ), an Egyptian divinity, whose name occurs in that of No-amon.( Nahum 3:8 ) Amen was one of the eight gods of the first order and chief of the triad of Thebes. He was worshipped at that city as Amen-Ra, or "Amen the Sun."
quote: "You go to Israel, the blacks are just treated like dogs," the Guy Who Sounds Like Sterling said on the recording leaked by Somebody Perhaps His Mistress.
The Guy: "It's the world! You go to Israel, the blacks are just treated like dogs."
The Mistress: "So do you have to treat them like that, too?"
Guy: "The white Jews, there's white Jews and black Jews. Do you understand?"
Mistress: "And are the black Jews less than the white Jews?"
Guy: "A hundred percent, fifty, a hundred percent."
On the surface, Sterling might have a point — even if no one can make any sense of where he was going with it — that dark-skinned Jews have experienced adversity in the Jewish state. But to say ''dogs" isn't quite kosher.
quote:Originally posted by Mike111: ^Would someone translate the above for me please.
Trollkillah doesn't want to spell it out.
He wants to leave it like that so if somebody tries to translate he can say "i never said that" if he doesn't like it
he prefers to speak in codes and winks
How can I spell it out, when I cited parts of the bible, as is written?
It's written in English, unless it needs to be translated to another language other then english, I don't understand. Since it was already translated from another language into English.
You however never spelled out, on this study you've bolstered with. And my references to this study. You simple "dropped ass" and kept quite. Then as a last resort scrapped pictures from the Internet to make a scientific "point."
quote:Originally posted by Trollkillah # Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^^^ ignorant and stupid
I'm in a rush, so I skimmed it quickly, but seems interesting. What do you think?
quote: For this reason, a comprehensive sampling (including both proximate and distant, Jewish and non-Jewish populations) is needed to detect genetic traces of some early admixture events that predate the formation of present day ethnic groups in the medieval and modern periods.
--DNA Tribes® Digest May 1, 2014
Posts: 22235 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the AMEN, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.( Revelation 3:14-15 )
(Nahum 3:9) "Ethiopia and Egypt were her strength, and it was infinite" [...]
A mountain of Ephraim Half of the tribes of Israel stand on, to respond Amen to the curses of the law (Deuteronomy 11:29;27:12,13; Joshua 8:33)
Amon, or Amen
(the mysterious ), an Egyptian divinity, whose name occurs in that of No-amon.( Nahum 3:8 ) Amen was one of the eight gods of the first order and chief of the triad of Thebes. He was worshipped at that city as Amen-Ra, or "Amen the Sun."
quote: "You go to Israel, the blacks are just treated like dogs," the Guy Who Sounds Like Sterling said on the recording leaked by Somebody Perhaps His Mistress.
The Guy: "It's the world! You go to Israel, the blacks are just treated like dogs."
The Mistress: "So do you have to treat them like that, too?"
Guy: "The white Jews, there's white Jews and black Jews. Do you understand?"
Mistress: "And are the black Jews less than the white Jews?"
Guy: "A hundred percent, fifty, a hundred percent."
On the surface, Sterling might have a point — even if no one can make any sense of where he was going with it — that dark-skinned Jews have experienced adversity in the Jewish state. But to say ''dogs" isn't quite kosher.
What is equally interesting is, in the bible the word for lord is Aden which some believe maybe a Semitic way of saying Aten.
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And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the AMEN, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.( Revelation 3:14-15 )
(Nahum 3:9) "Ethiopia and Egypt were her strength, and it was infinite" [...]
A mountain of Ephraim Half of the tribes of Israel stand on, to respond Amen to the curses of the law (Deuteronomy 11:29;27:12,13; Joshua 8:33)
Amon, or Amen
(the mysterious ), an Egyptian divinity, whose name occurs in that of No-amon.( Nahum 3:8 ) Amen was one of the eight gods of the first order and chief of the triad of Thebes. He was worshipped at that city as Amen-Ra, or "Amen the Sun."
quote: "You go to Israel, the blacks are just treated like dogs," the Guy Who Sounds Like Sterling said on the recording leaked by Somebody Perhaps His Mistress.
The Guy: "It's the world! You go to Israel, the blacks are just treated like dogs."
The Mistress: "So do you have to treat them like that, too?"
Guy: "The white Jews, there's white Jews and black Jews. Do you understand?"
Mistress: "And are the black Jews less than the white Jews?"
Guy: "A hundred percent, fifty, a hundred percent."
On the surface, Sterling might have a point — even if no one can make any sense of where he was going with it — that dark-skinned Jews have experienced adversity in the Jewish state. But to say ''dogs" isn't quite kosher.
What is equally interesting is, in the bible the word for lord is Aden which some believe maybe a Semitic way of saying Aten.
Yes, and it's believed to be in Southern Arabia, Yemen, to be exact.
Which brings us back to this part,
quote: Bedouins, Jordanians, Palestinians and Saudi Arabians are located in close proximity to each other, which is consistent with a common origin in the Arabian Peninsula25, whereas the Egyptian, Moroccan, Mozabite Berber, and Yemenite samples are located closer to sub- Saharan populations (Fig. 1a and Supplementary Fig. 2a).
[...]
--Bayazit Yunusbayev, Oleg Balanovsky et al.
The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people
Vol 466|8 July 2010|doi:10.1038/nature09103
Received 9 December 2009; accepted 21 April 2010. Published
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And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the AMEN, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.( Revelation 3:14-15 )
(Nahum 3:9) "Ethiopia and Egypt were her strength, and it was infinite" [...]
A mountain of Ephraim Half of the tribes of Israel stand on, to respond Amen to the curses of the law (Deuteronomy 11:29;27:12,13; Joshua 8:33)
Amon, or Amen
(the mysterious ), an Egyptian divinity, whose name occurs in that of No-amon.( Nahum 3:8 ) Amen was one of the eight gods of the first order and chief of the triad of Thebes. He was worshipped at that city as Amen-Ra, or "Amen the Sun."
quote: "You go to Israel, the blacks are just treated like dogs," the Guy Who Sounds Like Sterling said on the recording leaked by Somebody Perhaps His Mistress.
The Guy: "It's the world! You go to Israel, the blacks are just treated like dogs."
The Mistress: "So do you have to treat them like that, too?"
Guy: "The white Jews, there's white Jews and black Jews. Do you understand?"
Mistress: "And are the black Jews less than the white Jews?"
Guy: "A hundred percent, fifty, a hundred percent."
On the surface, Sterling might have a point — even if no one can make any sense of where he was going with it — that dark-skinned Jews have experienced adversity in the Jewish state. But to say ''dogs" isn't quite kosher.
What is equally interesting is, in the bible the word for lord is Aden which some believe maybe a Semitic way of saying Aten.
The Edenic Pishon River (Pison River) is Wadi Bishah (Bishain) and Wadi Baish (Baysh) and Havilah (Hebrew: Hawila; Targum: Chavila) is the Khaulan/Khawlan/Haulan/Hawlan Yemeni Tribes?
(Please scroll down for a "Critique" of James A. Sauer's 1996 article identifying the Pishon River with Wadi Batin and Havilah with Mahd adh-Dhahab)
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