New poster but i've been reading for a while so before I get into my question, I want to thank all of you who have spent countless years of your lives researching this beautiful knowledge (Dr. Winters, MIke 111,Tukuler, DD'eDen, etc)so we can now go out and hold our heads up high because you all provide us with EVEDENCE
From DNA to linguistics you are helping disprove the lie of who the true creators of civilization were. Thank you and please believe your work in not in vain. I am an educator and my students (6th -12th grade) and I discuss topics found on this forum, Mikes website and Dr winters books often. YOU ARE having an impact. DO NOT let these detractors stop you. Please.
Now my question.
Where I can find information on the climate and geography of ancient Egypt and/ or ancient Africa?
This stems from a few debates Ive had where my opponent uses the "Sub Saharan African" separation theory. (Egyptians were not sub Saharan and there fore not black).
My argument is - back then the desert couldn't have been as large as it is now. Common sense and a basic knowledge of geography would tell you that. The earths climate changes the geography, biomes and eco- systems over the years.This would obviously lead to human migration.
Ive used examples like:
"the area known as Nubia,1 which was once home to three ancient city-states of the Kingdom of Kush, namely: Kerma (ca. 2500-1500 B.C.), which was Nubia's first centralized state; Napata (ca. 900-270 B.C.), the second capital of Kush; and Meroë (ca. 270 B.C.-370 A.D.), which later replaced Napata as capital."
^^^ They built an entire city in the middle of that desert? Yea right. There was definitely a close supply of water. Was the nile larger/ wider? Was the desert possibly alive and lush back then? I think so. Obviously ive pointed out archaeological, cultural, and physical (DNA) evidence to contradict ...but this poor souls mind cant get past the giant chunk of dirt.
Anyone have any leads or a direction I could be pointed in?
6,500-5,000 14C y.a. Conditions across northern, central and east Africa became somewhat drier than before, but were still moister than today. For example, on the basis of pollen and charcoal, Neumann et al. (1995) suggest a mixture of semi-desert and denser scrub and grassland for the western Sahara, in areas that are now extremely arid. A similar picture is obtained by Ritchie (1994) on the basis of pollen evidence, and by Lario et al. (1997) for the Blue Nile on the basis of sedimentological and zoological indicators.
Conditions across the Sahara region and the Arabian Peninsula at 6,00014C y.a. have been summarized in a 1-degree database and set of biome maps presented by Hoelzmann et al. (1998), using pollen and charcoal data. Their map suggests a picture that is in essence similar to that given in the maps below; note however that from their useage of categories for the present-actual map, their category of 'steppe' appears to correspond to 'semi-desert' in the QEN vegetation scheme, and their 'savanna' corresponds more closely to the QEN 'grasslands' and 'scrub'. Hoezelmann et al. also suggest a very extensive area of wetlands south-east of Lake Mega-Chad, rivalling the lake itself in scale; they suggest that at 6,000 14C y.a., rainfall in the catchment area was around 300-350mm higher than today in order to sustain this high water level. Other extensive wetland areas are suggested for the interior of the eastern Arabian Peninsula. The map reconstructions of Hoelzmann et al for 6,000 14C y.a. are downloadable from this link
East Africa may also have been moister than at present, though drier than it had been during earlier stages of the Holocene (Hamilton 1982, Maitima 1991).
There may also have been a temporary return of moisture conditions and lake levels to early-Holocene conditions at around 5,500 - 5,000 14C y.a. (Petit-Maire & Gua 1996), for which period the map given here may not give enough moist-climate vegetation (maps for 8,000-7,000 14C y.a. could be more representative for this phase). Throughout the period 6,500-5,000 14C y.a., the Sahara was mainly vegetated (Lezine 1989, Ritchie 1994), and rainforest extent was greater than today (Hamilton 1988, and see main QEN review for 5,000 14C y.a. timeslice).
After about 5,000 14C y.a., lake levels suggest that aridity in north Africa became more severe, culminating in an arid phase about 3,800 14C y.a., a part-way return to moist conditions 4,000-3,000 14C y.a., and a decline to aridity thereafter (Petit-Maire & Gua 1996).
Since 5,50014C y.a., the climate across Africa seems to have been relatively similar to the present. An arid phase with some forest retreat is observed for around 2,600 14C y.a. in pollen records from Cameroon and some places in central Africa (Elenga et al. 1994, van Geel et al. 1996).
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The period from 9000 to 6000 BC has left very little in the way of archaeological evidence. Around 6000 BC, Neolithic settlements appear all over Egypt.[16] Studies based on morphological,[17] genetic,[18][19][20][21][22] and archaeological data[13][23][24][25][26] have attributed these settlements to migrants from the Fertile Crescent in the Near East returning during the Egyptian and North African Neolithic, bringing agriculture to the region. However, other regions in Africa independently developed agriculture at about the same time: the Ethiopian highlands, the Sahel, and West Africa.[27] However, some morphological and post-cranial data has linked the earliest farming populations at Fayum, Merimde, and El-Badari, to Near Eastern populations.[28][29][30] The archaeological data suggests that Near Eastern domesticates were incorporated into a pre-existing foraging strategy and only slowly developed into a full-blown lifestyle, contrary to what would be expected from settler colonists from the Near East.[d][32][33] Finally, the names for the Near Eastern domesticates imported into Egypt were not Sumerian or Proto-Semitic loan words,[34] which further diminishes the likelihood of a mass immigrant colonization of lower Egypt during the transition to agriculture.[35]
From about 5000 to 4200 BC the Merimde culture, so far only known from a big settlement site at the edge of the Western Delta, flourished in Lower Egypt. The culture has strong connections to the Faiyum A culture as well as the Levant. People lived in small huts, produced a simple undecorated pottery and had stone tools. Cattle, sheep, goats and pigs were held. Wheat, sorghum and barley were planted. The Merimde people buried their dead within the settlement and produced clay figurines.[38] The first Egyptian lifesize head made of clay comes from Merimde.
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Pre-Kerma develops between the end of the fourth and the beginning fo the third millennium B.C. It bears witness to an important social complexification, foreshadowing the formation of the first kingdom of Sub-Saharan Africa.
The period that covers the fourth and third millennia is ill known in the Kerma region. The gradual aridification of the climate causes populations to move towards the banks of the Nile. The remains of their settlements, now located in the cultivation zones, were mostly destroyed during the ploughing of the fields. Although rare, evidence does exist; it is noted at the site of the eastern necropolis, where a vast agglomeration was revealed under the tumuli of the Kerma period.
This agglomeration, discovered in the mid-1980s, covers one and half hectares, and corresponds to the permanent settlement of an agro-pastoral community. It comprises approximately 40 huts measuring between four and seven metres in diameter, which surround a storage area that includes almost 500 cereal granaries. Three buildings are noted for their rectangular shape. These appear to have served an administrative, religious or defensive function rather than a domestic one. Large animal pens delineated by wooden palisades and imposing fortifications developed on the outskirts of the settlement.
These constructions already denote a certain degree of densification and complexification of the settlement, which in turn represent the emergence of a more complex society. Thus the Pre-Kerma people who settle along the Nile between 3500 and 2500 B.C. seek protection from outside threats and wish to safeguard their wealth within a vast and completely enclosed complex that must have covered tens of hectares.
Archaeological data pertaining to this period are rather rare in Upper Nubia and it is rather difficult to highlight connections between Pre-Kerma people and their neighbours. We only know that contacts deepen throughout the Nile Valley and that Nubia’s riches—notably gold, ivory, ebony and cattle—are coveted by elites in the north. Trade increases between Lower Nubia, occupied by the A-Group, and Upper Egypt. Upper Nubia was undoubtedly influenced by these interactions, but it remains difficult to ascertain its implication in Nilotic trade. At the moment, because of the few Pre-Kerma settlement sites and the rarity of necropoleis, it is impossible to formulate a firm idea regarding the dynamism of this culture in the region.
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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I must not have been clear in my post. This question was directed towards:
Dr. Winters Mike 111 Mena 7 Tukuler DD' eDen Ish Gabor
Not really interested in getting into a discussion on here with anyone who purposefully tries to question and derail information.
Also, I am uninterested in discussing anything with people who use this forum to help spread the destructive, racist, colonial education system we are forced to use. This is the foundation for all of their knowledge, and they refuse to accept other sources unless it has the "white stamp of approval"
We do not think like this.
I teach my youth to question everything and not just think outside the box...but to destroy the box.
BTW...In my research I have found and read the link you sent. Again I need to clarify... Im looking for OTHER sources. Which is why I came to this forum in the first place.
Sorry for wasting your time, and I , am not upset that you wasted mine.
posted
Northeast Africa was inhabited by populations from the Sahara-Sahel. That's the crux. There was no sub-Sahara. This is a white peoples invention. To indigenous ethnic people there is/ was no barrier between far Nort and far Southern regions.
quote:The Garamantes flourished in southwestern Libya, in the core of the Sahara Desert ~3,000 years ago and largely controlled trans-Saharan trade. Their biological affinities to other North African populations, including the Egyptian, Algerian, Tunisian and Sudanese, roughly contemporary to them, are examined by means of cranial nonmetric traits using the Mean Measure of Divergence and Mahalanobis D(2) distance. The aim is to shed light on the extent to which the Sahara Desert inhibited extensive population movements and gene flow. Our results show that the Garamantes possess distant affinities to their neighbors. This relationship may be due to the Central Sahara forming a barrier among groups, despite the archaeological evidence for extended networks of contact. The role of the Sahara as a barrier is further corroborated by the significant correlation between the Mahalanobis D(2) distance and geographic distance between the Garamantes and the other populations under study. In contrast, no clear pattern was observed when all North African populations were examined, indicating that there was no uniform gene flow in the region.
--Nikita E, Mattingly D, Lahr MM.
Sahara: Barrier or corridor? Nonmetric cranial traits and biological affinities of North African late Holocene populations.
Am J Phys Anthropol. 2012 Feb;147(2):280-92. doi: 10.1002/ajpa.21645. Epub 2011 Dec 20.
quote:"Many of the sites reveal evidence of important interactions between Nilotic and Saharan groups during the formative phases of the Egyptian Predynastic Period (e.g. Wadi el-Hôl, Rayayna, Nuq’ Menih, Kurkur Oasis). Other sites preserve important information regarding the use of the desert routes during the Protodynastic and Pharaonic Periods, particularly during periods of political and military turmoil in the Nile Valley (e.g. Gebel Tjauti, Wadi el-Hôl)."
quote:Pleistocene through to the Christian periods, reveals a break in population continuity between the Pleistocene (Jebel Sahaba) and the Final Neolithic (Gebel Ramlah, dating to the first half of the fifth millennium BC) samples. The dental traits from Jebel Sahaba align more closely with modern sub-Saharan populations, while Gebel Ramlah and later align closer to Egypt specifically and to the Sahara in general."
--Michael Brass
Reconsidering the emergence of social complexity in early Saharan pastoral societies, 5000 – 2500 B.C.
quote: Evidence from throughout the Sahara indicates that the region experienced a cool, dry and windy climate during the last glacial period, followed by a wetter climate with the onset of the current interglacial, with humid conditions being fully established by around 10,000 years BP, when we see the first evidence of a reoccupation of parts of the central Sahara by hunter gathers, most likely originating from sub-Saharan Africa (Cremaschi and Di Lernia, 1998; Goudie, 1992; Phillipson, 1993; Ritchie, 1994; Roberts, 1998).
[...]
Conical tumuli, platform burials and a V-type monument represent structures similar to those found in other Saharan regions and associated with human burials, appearing in sixth millennium BP onwards in northeast Niger and southwest Libya (Sivilli, 2002). In the latter area a shift in emphasis from faunal to human burials, complete by the early fifth millennium BP, has been interpreted by Di Lernia and Manzi (2002) as being associated with a changes in social organisation that occurred at a time of increasing aridity. While further research is required in order to place the funerary monuments of Western Sahara in their chronological context, we can postulate a similar process as a hypothesis to be tested, based on the high density of burial sites recorded in the 2002 survey. Fig. 2: Megaliths associated with tumulus burial (to right of frame), north of Tifariti (Fig. 1). A monument consisting of sixty five stelae was also of great interest; precise alignments north and east, a division of the area covered into separate units, and a deliberate scattering of quartzite inside the structure, are suggestive of an astronomical function associated with funerary rituals. Stelae are also associated with a number of burial sites, again suggesting dual funerary and astronomical functions (Figure 2). Further similarities with other Saharan regions are evident in the rock art recorded in the study area, although local stylistic developments are also apparent. Carvings of wild fauna at the site of Sluguilla resemble the Tazina style found in Algeria, Libya and Morocco (Pichler and Rodrigue, 2003), although examples of elephant and rhinoceros in a naturalistic style reminiscent of engravings from the central Sahara believed to date from the early Holocene are also present.
--Nick Brooks et al. (2004)
The prehistory of Western Sahara in a regional context: the archaeology of the "free zone"
Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research, Saharan Studies Programme and School of Environmental Sciences, University of East Anglia, Norwich, UK Coauthors: Di Lernia, Savino ((Department of Scienze Storiche, Archeologiche, e Antropologiche dell’Antichità, Faculty of Human Sciences, University of Rome “La Sapienza”, Via Palestro 63, 00185 – Rome, Italy) and Drake, Nick (Department of Geography, King’s College, Strand, London WC2R 2LS).
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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I must not have been clear in my post. This question was directed towards:
Dr. Winters Mike 111 Mena 7 Tukuler DD' eDen Ish Gabor
Not really interested in getting into a discussion on here with anyone who purposefully tries to question and derail information.
Also, I am uninterested in discussing anything with people who use this forum to help spread the destructive, racist, colonial education system we are forced to use. This is the foundation for all of their knowledge, and they refuse to accept other sources unless it has the "white stamp of approval"
We do not think like this.
I teach my youth to question everything and not just think outside the box...but to destroy the box.
BTW...In my research I have found and read the link you sent. Again I need to clarify... Im looking for OTHER sources. Which is why I came to this forum in the first place.
Sorry for wasting your time, and I , am not upset that you wasted mine.
Thank you
You waste your own time not keeping an open mind. Truth is truth no matter what the source
Here is a Tukuler thread using the same maps I posted.
Dr. Winters Mike 111 Mena 7 Tukuler DD' eDen Ish Gabor
^^ see this? These are not primary researchers. These are people who reference research often done by white cave beasts to then form their own arguments
Most of this green sahara topic has been spoken about before in the Egyptology forum
Here is Amun-Ra The Ultimate's thread
The Peopling Of The Sahara During the Holocene/Green Sahara
This is not a private forum where you can pick who replies.
If you look at any afrocentric writers, like Molefi Asante, Cheikh Anta Diop or even Black Eurocentric writers like Mike111 you will find large portions of their work have mainstream facts in them. There's only a percentage of the work that disputes basic facts.
So ask yourself what are the primary sources they use and who did the primary research on ancient and prehistoric climate? That is scientific information not historical speculation and opinion. The field is paleoclimatology This is recent information:
A ‘green’ Sahara was far less dusty than today Research points to an abrupt and widespread climate shift in the Sahara 5,000 years ago.
this is some of the more recent research
Jennifer Chu, MIT News Office April 5, 2013
As recently as 5,000 years ago, the Sahara — today a vast desert in northern Africa, spanning more than 3.5 million square miles — was a verdant landscape, with sprawling vegetation and numerous lakes. Ancient cave paintings in the region depict hippos in watering holes, and roving herds of elephants and giraffes — a vibrant contrast with today’s barren, inhospitable terrain. The Sahara’s “green” era, known as the African Humid Period, likely lasted from 11,000 to 5,000 years ago, and is thought to have ended abruptly, with the region drying back into desert within a span of one to two centuries. Now researchers at MIT, Columbia University and elsewhere have found that this abrupt climate change occurred nearly simultaneously across North Africa. The team traced the region’s wet and dry periods over the past 30,000 years by analyzing sediment samples off the coast of Africa. Such sediments are composed, in part, of dust blown from the continent over thousands of years: The more dust that accumulated in a given period, the drier the continent may have been. From their measurements, the researchers found that the Sahara emitted five times less dust during the African Humid Period than the region does today. Their results, which suggest a far greater change in Africa’s climate than previously estimated, will be published in Earth and Planetary Science Letters. David McGee, an assistant professor in MIT’s Department of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences, says the quantitative results of the study will help scientists determine the influence of dust emissions on both past and present climate change. “Our results point to surprisingly large changes in how much dust is coming out of Africa,” says McGee, who did much of the work as a postdoc at Columbia. “This gives us a baseline for looking further back in time, to interpret how big past climate swings were. This [period] was the most recent climate swing in Africa. What was it like before?” Getting to the core of dust To trace Africa’s dust emissions through time, McGee analyzed sediment samples collected in 2007 by researchers from Columbia and Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. Researchers sampled from sites off the northwest coast of Africa, spanning a distance of more than 550 miles. At each site, they collected a core sample — a 10-foot long cylinder topped by a weight — which scientists submerged, collecting a column of sediment. McGee says a 10-foot column represents approximately 30,000 years of sediments deposited, layer by layer, in the ocean — sediments like windblown dust from the continent, marine deposits brought in by ocean currents, and leftover bits of organisms that sank to the seafloor. A centimeter of sediment corresponds to about 100 years of deposition, providing what McGee calls a “high-resolution” record of dust changes through time. To trace how much windblown dust accumulated over the past 30,000 years, McGee used a combination of techniques to first determine how fast sediments accumulated over time, then subtracted out the accumulation of marine sediments and biological remnants. Layer by layer Using a technique called thorium-230 normalization, McGee and his colleagues calculated accumulation rates for sediment layers every two to three centimeters along the column. The technique is based on the decay of uranium in seawater: Over time, uranium decays to thorium-230, an insoluble chemical that sticks to any falling sediment as it sinks to the seafloor. The amount of uranium — and by extension, the production rate of thorium-230 — in the world’s oceans is relatively constant. McGee measured the concentration of thorium-230 in each core sample to determine the accumulation rates of sediments through time. In periods when sediments accumulated quickly, there was a smaller concentration of thorium-230. In slower-accumulating periods, McGee measured a greater thorium-230 concentration. Once the team calculated rates of sediment accumulation over the past 30,000 years, it went about determining how much of that sediment was dust from neighboring Africa. The researchers subtracted biological sediment from the samples by measuring calcium carbonate, opal and organic carbon, the primary remnants of living organisms. After subtracting this measurement from each sample layer, the researchers tackled the task of separating the remaining sediment into windblown dust and marine sediments — particles that circulate through the ocean, deposited on the seafloor by currents. McGee employed a second technique called grain-size endmember modeling, charting a distribution of grain sizes ranging from coarse grains of dust to fine grains of marine soil. “We define these endmembers: A pure dust signal would look like this, and a pure marine sediment would look like this,” McGee says. “And then we see, OK, what combination of those extremes would give us this mixture that we see here?” This study, McGee says, is the first in which researchers have combined the two techniques — endmember modeling and thorium-230 normalization — a pairing that produced very precise measurements of dust emissions through tens of thousands of years. In the end, the team found that during some dry periods North Africa emitted more than twice the dust generated today. Through their samples, the researchers found the African Humid Period began and ended very abruptly, consistent with previous findings. However, they found that 6,000 years ago, toward the end of this period, dust emissions were one-fifth today’s levels, and far less dusty than previous estimates. McGee says these new measurements may give scientists a better understanding of how dust fluxes relate to climate by providing inputs for climate models. Natalie Mahowald, a professor of earth and atmospheric sciences at Cornell University, says the group’s combination of techniques yielded more robust estimates of dust than previous studies. “Dust is one of the most important aerosols for climate and biogeochemistry,” Mahowald says. “This study suggests very large fluctuations due to climate over the last 10,000 years, which has enormous implications for human-derived climate change.” As a next step, McGee is working with collaborators to test whether these new measurements may help to resolve a longstanding problem: the inability of climate models to reproduce the magnitude of wet conditions in North Africa 6,000 years ago. By using these new results to estimate the climate impacts of dust emissions on regional climate, models may finally be able to replicate the North Africa of 6,000 years ago — a region of grasslands that were host to a variety of roaming wildlife. “This is a period that captures people’s imaginations,” McGee says. “It’s important to understand whether and how much dust has had an impact on past climate.” This research was funded by the National Science Foundation and by a National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration postdoctoral fellowship to McGee.
quote:Originally posted by Ogamtolo:
Now my question.
Where I can find information on the climate and geography of ancient Egypt and/ or ancient Africa?
This stems from a few debates Ive had where my opponent uses the "Sub Saharan African" separation theory. (Egyptians were not sub Saharan and there fore not black).
My argument is - back then the desert couldn't have been as large as it is now. Common sense and a basic knowledge of geography would tell you that. The earths climate changes the geography, biomes and eco- systems over the years.This would obviously lead to human migration.
Ive used examples like:
"the area known as Nubia,1 which was once home to three ancient city-states of the Kingdom of Kush, namely: Kerma (ca. 2500-1500 B.C.), which was Nubia's first centralized state; Napata (ca. 900-270 B.C.), the second capital of Kush; and Meroë (ca. 270 B.C.-370 A.D.), which later replaced Napata as capital."
^^^ They built an entire city in the middle of that desert? Yea right. There was definitely a close supply of water. Was the nile larger/ wider? Was the desert possibly alive and lush back then? I think so. Obviously ive pointed out archaeological, cultural, and physical (DNA) evidence to contradict ...but this poor souls mind cant get past the giant chunk of dirt.
Anyone have any leads or a direction I could be pointed in?
Thank You [/QB]
The approach of your argument is not effective. Whatever "black" means you assume that if there is a barrier between North and Sub Saharan Africa than that means blacks could not live in both places while the point of many afrocentrics is that blacks are all over the world!
The desert is an obstacle but not an un-passable one. The Egyptian civilization is not old enough to find more than a slight difference in climate back then. But the Egyptian civilization formed along a river and the soil conditions and ability to transport resources by boat defy the desert barrier. As per the Western Sahara the much easier route to travel and survive between the North and SSA is along the Western coast
Was North Africa lush and green at the dawn of Egyptian civilization? However, according to this article if you go back to the region a couple of thousand year before that there where grasslands.
" The Sahara’s green era, known as the African Humid Period, likely lasted from 11,000 to 5,000 years ago, and is thought to have ended abruptly,"
People come and go in migrations you have to be bale to coordinate a people to being in a particular place where there is evidence of not just human settlement but a civilization.
As far as whatever blackness is it is not dependent on being in just one part of Africa.
And as far as if South, Central or West Africans having descended from people who lived in ancient Egypt, that is a different issue
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ogamtolo: ^^ Good stuff!!
With sources newer than 1997 as well!
Thank You.
You're welcome,
quote:"Karl Butzer has estimated that two areas of greatest population density in dyanstic times were between Luxor{Waset} and Aswan {Elephantine} at the first cataract,and from Medium at the fayum entrance northwards to the apex of the Delta.
IN between was Middle Egypt,a geogrpahic buffer zone with a lower population density. It is worth bearing in mind that the total population of egypt at the time the Giza pyramids were built is estimated to have been 1.6 million,compared with 58 million in Ad 1995."
Mark Lehner, Page 7. The Complete Pyramids
"It is nonetheless probable that settlements were far more dispersed than they were in Upper Egypt, that overall population density was significantly lower, and that the northernmost one-third of the Delta was ALMOST UNDERPOPULATED in Old Kingdom times. In effect, a considerable body of information can be marshalled to show that the Delta was UNDERDEVELOPED and that internal colonization continued for some three millennia, until the late Ptolemaic era."
Climate-Controlled Holocene Occupation in the Sahara: Motor of Africa's Evolution Science 313, 803 (2006); DOI: 10.1126/science.1130989
quote:
100,000 BC
40,000 BC
19,000-10,000 BC
8,000-7,000 BC
6,500-5,000 BC
5,000-3,000 BC
Red dots are Paleolithic sites, while green dots are Neolithic sites.
--University College London (Digital Egypt for Universities)
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:"Berget Playa el Sheb, Gebel Ramlah Playa - Combined Prehistoric Expedition Combined Prehistoric Expedition Research Institute of Archaeology and Ethnology were conducted in the 2011 season in the area of the Western Desert, approx. 150 km west of Abu Simbel. They focused in the area of two paleojezior (playa): Barget el Sheb and Gebel Ramlah Playa Playa.
In the area of El Sheb Barget continued excavations at the settlement early and
środkowoneolitycznej. In the first stage of the research in the area of Gebel Ramlah exploration work was carried out around the NE, E and S edge paleojeziora. During these meetings, N of cemeteries
późnoneolitycznych, located on the surface fragments of human skeletons. In the second part of the season the pit excavation area of 3 x 18 m, is located in the area of occurrence of bone. The result of this work was to capture a fragment of another, very large graveyard, the mid-Neolithic age. The excavation uncovered 18 graves containing the remains of 20 individuals."
--M. Kobusiewicz, J. Kabacinski, R. Schild, J.D. Irish, M.C. Gatto, F. Wendorf, Gebel Ramlah, Final Neolithic Cemeteries from the Western Desert of Egypt, Poznan 2010
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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This is the foundation for all of their knowledge, and they refuse to accept other sources unless it has the "white stamp of approval"
quote:Originally posted by Ogamtolo: ^^ Good stuff!!
With sources newer than 1997 as well!
Thank You.
what are you thanking him for?
the white stamp of approval form all the white institutional sources he listed?
Probably because I backed up what I wrote earlier on. To separate fact from fiction.
"Northeast Africa was inhabited by populations from the Sahara-Sahel. That's the crux. There was no sub-Sahara. This is a white peoples invention. To indigenous ethnic people there is/ was no barrier between far Nort and far Southern regions."Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
you backed iyour statements up with white institutional sources and Ogamtolo was bragging about the "white stamp of approval" and that he teaches his students not to "think outside the box...but to destroy the box."
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
The genes and all the paintings of Ancient Egyptians show a black african people. Also there is no caucasian race because there is no real genetic evidence for it existing or medical or skeletal basis for it; black tribes all over africa exhibit "caucasian features" and even Ancient Egyptian features.
And white eurasians did not reach Egypt when Egypt was first started as a civilization thus whites could not have started Egypt. In all the surrounding areas of AE, it was filled primarily with OTHER black people when it arose. There are even glyphs and pictures of Ancient Egyptians seeing themselves as the same race as Nubians and other blacks.
Wheras there are plenty of AE stories and paintings of them killing "Asiatics" like the Hyksos, "Hittites" or "Assyrians" and waging war on them. This negates the possibility of the Ancient Egyptians being a "middle eastern" race like modern people in that area today.
Also modern Egyptian have absolutely nothing to do with the Egyptians except the rural ones. Modern Egyptians are absolutely mongrelized to the point where they have no genetic connection or linage to the AE.
BTW this also applies to the Ancient Chinese as well, the Ancient Chinese were also some sort of a black people; there are ignorant's all over the internet claiming that the Chinese have a 5000 year old history when that is not possible since modern Chinese, like the modern "Egyptians" have nothing to do with Ancient Chinese on a genetic/racial level.
This is because from the point of now, to the Ancient period, there have been massive migrations of barbarian tribes or nomadic tribes from the steppes and Siberia to the civilization of Ancient China (Zhou, Juan Juan, Turks, Mongols, Xian Bei, Jie, Huns, Qiang, Di, Yeuzhi etc), that invaded China and mixed with the Ancient Black Chinese to make the modern Chinese today).
The same process happened with the Ancient Egyptians, eventually as their civilization reached their twilight years, they were invaded by all sorts of groups from Persians, Greeks, Romans, Assyrians, Turks, Arabs, Franks, Slavs etc etc dilluting them to the point where they were no longer the Ancient Egyptians.
So you can't make correct racial inferences about who the AE were from the current populations occupying the area because of the sheer time and movements of people that went there.
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: you backed iyour statements up with white institutional sources and Ogamtolo was bragging about the "white stamp of approval" and that he teaches his students not to "think outside the box...but to destroy the box."
I could have left out the sources. Would it have made "a difference"? In the box is Eurocentrism. Rather the box is made out from Eurocentric idealism. That is the box Ogamtolo talks about.
"Northeast Africa was inhabited by populations from the Sahara-Sahel. That's the crux. There was no sub-Sahara. This is a white peoples invention. To indigenous ethnic people there is/ was no barrier between far North and far Southern regions."Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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BTW this also applies to the Ancient Chinese as well, the Ancient Chinese were also some sort of a black people; there are ignorant's all over the internet claiming that the Chinese have a 5000 year old history when that is not possible since modern Chinese, like the modern "Egyptians" have nothing to do with Ancient Chinese on a genetic/racial level.
so where do the ancestors of modern Chinese come form? Where did their ancestors live 5,000 years ago?
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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BTW this also applies to the Ancient Chinese as well, the Ancient Chinese were also some sort of a black people; there are ignorant's all over the internet claiming that the Chinese have a 5000 year old history when that is not possible since modern Chinese, like the modern "Egyptians" have nothing to do with Ancient Chinese on a genetic/racial level.
so where do the ancestors of modern Chinese come form? Where did their ancestors live 5,000 years ago?
A more interesting question whould be, where and when did the first Chinese dynasty emerge. See, apply the same to other civilizations as you do to Northeast Africa (and Africa as a whole). You question Africa constantly. But get upset when this happens to groups/ civilization anywhere else. Odd very old. That's the crux of the matter.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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"the area known as Nubia,1 which was once home to three ancient city-states of the Kingdom of Kush, namely: Kerma (ca. 2500-1500 B.C.), which was Nubia's first centralized state; Napata (ca. 900-270 B.C.), the second capital of Kush; and Meroë (ca. 270 B.C.-370 A.D.), which later replaced Napata as capital."
^^^ They built an entire city in the middle of that desert? Yea right. There was definitely a close supply of water. Was the nile larger/ wider? Was the desert possibly alive and lush back then? I think so.
Ish Gebor see if you can answer the above question with a yes or no. Was most of the Sahara desert a lush forest in 2500 BC ?
How about in 3,500 BC ?
Can you answer this in a couple of sentences in your own words?
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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"the area known as Nubia,1 which was once home to three ancient city-states of the Kingdom of Kush, namely: Kerma (ca. 2500-1500 B.C.), which was Nubia's first centralized state; Napata (ca. 900-270 B.C.), the second capital of Kush; and Meroë (ca. 270 B.C.-370 A.D.), which later replaced Napata as capital."
^^^ They built an entire city in the middle of that desert? Yea right. There was definitely a close supply of water. Was the nile larger/ wider? Was the desert possibly alive and lush back then? I think so.
Ish Gebor see if you can answer the above question with a yes or no. Was most of the Sahara desert a lush forest in 2500 BC ?
How about in 3,500 BC ?
Can you answer this in a couple of sentences in your own words?
Yes, most of the region was desert. People resided at Oasis. I have explained this many times. LOL SMH
It's also evident from the Nabta Playa.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
camels were first introduced to the Sahara around 200 AD as part of trade caravans from the Arabian Peninsula.
Figure 1: Trans-Saharan axes explored at different periods between the 9th and the 17th c. A.D.
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: camels were first introduced to the Sahara around 200 AD as part of trade caravans from the Arabian Peninsula.
This is not about camels, this is about, was there a barrier to indigenous Africans at the Sahara 3Kya. This has been resolved. Btw, camels originated from Southern Arabia, Yemen. Long before 200 AD people at the Red Sea were similar people, who stem from east Africa. The domestication of the dromedary took place earlier. Eurocentrism tends to ignore these historical facts.
Incredible Human Journey, Episode 1, Arabia Sequence (Eden)
quote: The one-humped camel or dromedary (camelus dromedarius) is already sporadically attested in the Early Dynastic Period, but it was not regularly used until much later. Foreign conquerors (Assyrians, Persians, Alexander the Great) brought the camel on a greater scale to Egypt. Certainly in the Ptolemaic Period, and perhaps already under the Persians (525-343 BC), the camel (also the two-humped camel, camelus bactrianus) was used as main transport animal for the desert.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: camels were first introduced to the Sahara around 200 AD as part of trade caravans from the Arabian Peninsula.
This is not about camels, this is about, was there a barrier to indigenous Africans. This has been resolved. Btw, camels originated from Southen Arabia, Yemen. Long before 200 AD people at the Red Sae were similar people, who stem from east Africa. The domestication of the dromedary took place earlier. Eurocentrism tends to ignore these historical facts.
quote: The one-humped camel or dromedary (camelus dromedarius) is already sporadically attested in the Early Dynastic Period, but it was not regularly used until much later. Foreign conquerors (Assyrians, Persians, Alexander the Great) brought the camel on a greater scale to Egypt. Certainly in the Ptolemaic Period, and perhaps already under the Persians (525-343 BC), the camel (also the two-humped camel, camelus bactrianus) was used as main transport animal for the desert.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: camels were first introduced to the Sahara around 200 AD as part of trade caravans from the Arabian Peninsula.
This is not about camels, this is about, was there a barrier to indigenous Africans. This has been resolved. Btw, camels originated from Southen Arabia, Yemen. Long before 200 AD people at the Red Sae were similar people, who stem from east Africa. The domestication of the dromedary took place earlier. Eurocentrism tends to ignore these historical facts.
quote: The one-humped camel or dromedary (camelus dromedarius) is already sporadically attested in the Early Dynastic Period, but it was not regularly used until much later. Foreign conquerors (Assyrians, Persians, Alexander the Great) brought the camel on a greater scale to Egypt. Certainly in the Ptolemaic Period, and perhaps already under the Persians (525-343 BC), the camel (also the two-humped camel, camelus bactrianus) was used as main transport animal for the desert.
How many miles can a person travel across the desert on foot without camels or horses?
That depends on the individual. And how well one is familiar with the region, geographically. I say a foreign person is likely to die, rather quickly. Only within a few weeks. The map by Herodotus shows the fear factor.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: That depends on the individual. And how well one is familiar with the of the region. I say a foreign person is likely to die, rather quickly. Only a few weeks. The map by Herodotus shows the fear factor.
How could any person with no horse or camel walk across desert and have enough water to survive beyond several days ?
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: That depends on the individual. And how well one is familiar with the of the region. I say a foreign person is likely to die, rather quickly. Only a few weeks. The map by Herodotus shows the fear factor.
How could any person with no horse or camel walk across desert and have enough water to survive beyond a few days ?
There are water sources within the desert, sometimes natural sometimes artificially made. As I said, indigenous ethnic groups are familiar with these sources. This is why it's a barrier to foreign people and not to indigenous people.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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This is the foundation for all of their knowledge, and they refuse to accept other sources unless it has the "white stamp of approval"
quote:Originally posted by Ogamtolo: ^^ Good stuff!!
With sources newer than 1997 as well!
Thank You.
what are you thanking him for?
the white stamp of approval form all the white institutional sources he listed?
Probably because I backed up what I wrote earlier on. To separate fact from fiction.
"Northeast Africa was inhabited by populations from the Sahara-Sahel. That's the crux. There was no sub-Sahara. This is a white peoples invention. To indigenous ethnic people there is/ was no barrier between far Nort and far Southern regions."
Yep.
Thank you again for more info...but for the life of me I dont understand why you and Mindovermatter waste your time.
Im amused that this was ignored I guess:
"Not really interested in getting into a discussion on here with anyone who purposefully tries to question and derail information."
The derail express is right on time. SMH
Posts: 29 | From: Earth | Registered: Jul 2015
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This is the foundation for all of their knowledge, and they refuse to accept other sources unless it has the "white stamp of approval"
quote:Originally posted by Ogamtolo: ^^ Good stuff!!
With sources newer than 1997 as well!
Thank You.
what are you thanking him for?
the white stamp of approval form all the white institutional sources he listed?
Probably because I backed up what I wrote earlier on. To separate fact from fiction.
"Northeast Africa was inhabited by populations from the Sahara-Sahel. That's the crux. There was no sub-Sahara. This is a white peoples invention. To indigenous ethnic people there is/ was no barrier between far Nort and far Southern regions."
Yep.
Thank you again for more info...but for the life of me I dont understand why you and Mindovermatter waste your time.
Im amused that this was ignored I guess:
"Not really interested in getting into a discussion on here with anyone who purposefully tries to question and derail information."
The derail express is right on time. SMH
That's how it goes. As I stated Africa is always being questioned, but when other regions of the world are being questioned, it becomes "Afrocentrics" who try to steal this and that. That is the double standard, white supremacy uses, or should I say "white privilege" is aloud to use.
Btw sorry for the typos. I just woke up. LOL
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: @ Mindovermatter, very well.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: you backed iyour statements up with white institutional sources and Ogamtolo was bragging about the "white stamp of approval" and that he teaches his students not to "think outside the box...but to destroy the box."
I could have left out the sources. Would it have made "a difference"? In the box is Eurocentrism. Rather the box is made out from Eurocentric idealism. That is the box Ogamtolo talks about.
"Northeast Africa was inhabited by populations from the Sahara-Sahel. That's the crux. There was no sub-Sahara. This is a white peoples invention. To indigenous ethnic people there is/ was no barrier between far North and far Southern regions."
^^^This should not have to be explained. Is my grammar that poor?
Posts: 29 | From: Earth | Registered: Jul 2015
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This is the foundation for all of their knowledge, and they refuse to accept other sources unless it has the "white stamp of approval"
quote:Originally posted by Ogamtolo: ^^ Good stuff!!
With sources newer than 1997 as well!
Thank You.
what are you thanking him for?
the white stamp of approval form all the white institutional sources he listed?
Probably because I backed up what I wrote earlier on. To separate fact from fiction.
"Northeast Africa was inhabited by populations from the Sahara-Sahel. That's the crux. There was no sub-Sahara. This is a white peoples invention. To indigenous ethnic people there is/ was no barrier between far Nort and far Southern regions."
Yep.
Thank you again for more info...but for the life of me I dont understand why you and Mindovermatter waste your time.
Im amused that this was ignored I guess:
"Not really interested in getting into a discussion on here with anyone who purposefully tries to question and derail information."
The derail express is right on time. SMH
That's how it goes. As I stated Africa is always being questioned, but when other regions of the world are being questioned, it becomes "Afrocentrics" who try to steal this and that. That is the double standard, white supremacy uses, or should I say "white privilege" is aloud to use.
Btw sorry for the typos. I just woke up. LOL
Its a shame, isn't it?
I refuse to allow them to do that around me. And thanks to the diligence of many on here and other places we now can call "eurocentric academic history" what it really is... with proof FROM VARIOUS/ALL SOURCES.
We just need to view it from outside that Western European sphere of influence.
And I don't ever worry about typos. The message was revived. Posts: 29 | From: Earth | Registered: Jul 2015
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: That depends on the individual. And how well one is familiar with the of the region. I say a foreign person is likely to die, rather quickly. Only a few weeks. The map by Herodotus shows the fear factor.
How could any person with no horse or camel walk across desert and have enough water to survive beyond a few days ?
There are water sources within the desert, sometimes natural sometimes artificially made. As I said, indigenous ethnic groups are familiar with these sources. This is why it's a barrier to foreign people and not to indigenous people.
I live in the SW United States. 2hr drive from Death Valley.
"56.7 °C The hottest air temperature ever recorded in Death Valley was 134 °F (56.7 °C) on July 10, 1913, at Furnace Creek, which is the hottest atmospheric temperature ever recorded on earth. During the heat wave that peaked with that record, five consecutive days reached 129 °F (54 °C) or above."
Yet people thrive and have lived out here for centuries. (The Shoshone Tribe) So this info will definitely relate.
"Las Vegas" means "The Meadows"
There's a reason the Spanish named two places in the middle in the inhospitable SW desert that.
Posts: 29 | From: Earth | Registered: Jul 2015
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So when—and how—did the Timbisha Shoshone not only live here, but thrive? Linguistic evidence indicates that they moved to what is now called Death Valley in 900 A.D. They survived by coaxing the specific bounty that existed in and around the valley and by being ruthlessly logical: When it got too hot, they moved to cooler country. They had to plan seasons ahead, managing a terrain the gold seekers and borax miners of the mid-19th century found so deadly they changed its name to its current dark moniker from Tümpisa, which means “rock paint,” referring to the clay in the valley they made into red ochre paint.
The Timbisha spent the months preceding winter gathering non-perishables such as pine nuts, mesquite beans and seeds. Winter in the valley is relatively mild, which allowed them to live in modest conical brush houses, allowing breezes to move through the arrow weed walls. They usually built these homes near mesquite groves, which were natural habitats for small game animals and birds that they hunted to round out their diet. The mesquite trees were crucial to the Timbisha; they harvested the tree’s beans in winter. These forbidding environs made them fairly safe from Mojaves, known to attack the Arizona and Southern California tribes during the winter months.
In the summer, when the heat was untenable for humans, the Timbisha moved to cooler elevations—the Grapevine Mountains to the northeast or the Panamint Range in the west. They foraged for berries, roots, seeds and pine nuts. They hunted mule deer, yellow-bellied marmot, bighorn sheep, black-tailed jackrabbit, chuckwalla and other small game. They stayed in the mountains until the first snowfall, then returned to their winter homes in the valley.
Like other Great Basin tribes, they knew they had to set fire to scrub vegetation in order to clean riparian areas of unwanted plants and stimulate the growth of others, like tobacco, and to increase seed production. They pruned the low branches of the vital mesquite and pinion pine trees so their beans would be easier to harvest. The pruning also protected the mesquite grove from the constant blowing sand, which would collect around low-hanging limbs and form dunes that killed the beans. They pinched the new growth at the tips of each pinion pine branch to stimulate more cone production.
Aboriginal people built water tunnels Judy Skatssoon ABC Science Online
Indigenous Australians dug underground water reservoirs that helped them live on one of the world's driest continents for tens of thousands of years, new research shows.
The study, which is the first of its kind, indicates Aboriginal people had extensive knowledge of the groundwater system, says hydrogeologist Brad Moggridge, knowledge that is still held today.
Some 70% of the continent is covered by desert or semi-arid land, which meant its original inhabitants needed to know how to find and manage this resource if they were to survive.
"Aboriginal people survived on one of the driest continents for thousands and thousands of years," says Brad Moggridge, who is from Kamilaroi country in northern New South Wales.
"Without water you die. They managed that water sustainably."
Moggridge, currently a principal policy officer in the New South Wales Department of Environment and Conservation, did his research as part of a Masters degree at the University of Technology, Sydney.
He based his work on oral histories, Dreamtime stories, rock art, artefacts and ceremonial body painting as well as written accounts by white missionaries, surveyors, settlers, anthropologists and explorers.
Managing scant resources
Moggridge says Indigenous Australians channelled and filtered their water, covering it to avoid contamination and evaporation. They also created wells and tunnel reservoirs.
"Groundwater was accessed through natural springs or people used to dig tunnels to access it," he says.
"Sometimes they'd dig till they found the water and then they'd build a system so they could access the water. Sometimes they've go fairly deep and people would slither down there and get their water."
Aboriginal people also used terrain, birdlife, vegetation and animals as markers for water, Moggridge says.
For example, they followed dingos to rock pools and waterholes while ants led them to subterranean reservoirs.
"They used the landscape," he says. "For example, you're in a dry area and all of a sudden there's a large number of ghost gums, so you'd think there must be some groundwater."
The Dreamtime
Aboriginal people's understanding of their groundwater system permeates Dreamtime stories, Moggridge says.
For example, the rainbow serpent is a key symbol of creation but its journey from underground to the surface also represents groundwater rising to the top via springs.
Moggridge says European settlers owed their subsequent knowledge of groundwater to local tribes and trackers, and even much of Australia's modern road system is based on water sources identified by the original inhabitants.
"A lot of the old roads in New South Wales are based on Aboriginal walking tracks ... and their water supply would have been along the way," he says.
The Desert Knowledge CRC is also trying to link traditional knowledge with science in terms of water management in central Australia, home to numerous remote Indigenous communities.
Current projects include looking at the cultural values of water, a spokesperson says.
____________________________
Clothing for the Desert There's a reason that sheiks in places like Saudi Arabia are known for wearing hoods and robes -- the loose fitting clothing help keep a body cool, especially when walking and perspiring. Though some sheiks are known for wearing white, the reality is that black robes make for the best clothing for traveling through a hot desert. Case in point: The Bedouin, a tribe of Arabic desert nomads, wear black.
Though the color white does reflect sunlight, it also reflects your body heat right back at your body. Black on the other hand absorbs sunlight, but it also absorbs your body heat.
In the end, with a loosely worn robe and hood, black overall is a better color to wear in the desert than white.
1) To prepare for a journey on foot across a desert, have a black robe on hand (preferably wool, see below), folded in your pack. Where do you get a black robe for an extreme survival scenario that takes you into a barren, hot desert? The same place that Arabs living in the U.S. do -- Arabic stores and suppliers.
2) If conditions get hot, the desert too vast, put on this robe and survive. See: Summer Science: Clothes Keep You Cool, More Or Less. Though the author here points out that when a thick black Bedouin robe can't be had, light-colored, light weight clothes are the second choice.
A trek on foot across a hot desert though is a lot like a trek across the Yukon or even Siberia in the dead of winter -- it is dangerous, the weather and terrain can kill you if you're not prepared. If you plan on crossing a desert, go out of your way to be prepared. Failure to properly plan may easily cost you your life.
Things to Know About Water One thing that's interesting to note about the Bedouin -- they're capable of living off a single liter of water a day in the desert. Most likely their bodies have adapted as they've aged. For the rest of us not accustomed to life in harsh desert, our goal for water should be a gallon or more a day, in order to stay well hydrated and ward off heat stroke.
Historical Maps May Reveal Locations of Water in the Desert What we learn from the Desert Indians (Native Americans in the southwest United States) is that a path or road through the desert can be a lot like a path or road through the mountains -- realize that indigenous people (like the Desert Indians crossing through the Mojave Desert) may have established routes and places marked on maps where water can be found.
Locate Routes of Indigenous People Where ever you are in the world, find out the routes that indigenous people from that area used to cross expanses of barren and dry desert or desert mountains, and get to know these desert routes well. See: Secrets of Ancient Bedouin Navigation and [DOC] Southern Paiute - Chemehuevi Trails Across the Mojave Desert In a worst case scenario, remember what you learned above -- if you're on the ground and need to find water, study the terrain; look for areas of dark green vegetation; here you're looking for a dry stream bed; follow that stream bed until it bends; look for water (in the ground) on the outside bend -- that is where gravity would pull the most water when that stream was running above ground (following a rare rain, for example) and where an underground trickle may still exist.
Dig seeps, build solar stills and capture water from condensation sources. (To learn how to dig seeps, build solar stills, and other methods for finding water, see:
Aim to Drink More Than a Gallon of Water a Day in the Desert In extreme temperatures the body can require more than a gallon of water a day. Desert people like the Bedouin shepherded animals to fresh pastures whenever grazing lands were exhausted. They moved frequently and yet survived in a harsh environment with little water to be found. Life required knowing where water could be found (for the Bedouin it was often wells that had been dug) and plotting routes based on water locations. Finally, a large goat skin may have been all a Bedouin nomad had to carry water in.
Whatever you use to carry water in the desert, be sure it's large enough to carry enough water to keep you hydrated until you can reach the next location to replenish water.
When it comes to finding water in the desert, the questions to ask are: How much water can I carry before setting out? What routes can I take and where does water exist along these routes?
When the Desert is Too Hot Travel at Night
Finding Food in the Desert The hotter and more barren the desert -- like the Sahara Desert in North Africa -- the less likely it is that you're going to find anything edible. Choose routes on maps that show the greatest amount of vegetation, as well as paths that follow or cross shallow crevices (you don't want a route that passes deep crevices -- those could turn out to be cliffs and canyons; make sure you know how to read elevation changes on a map before setting out across a desert you're not familiar with). By choosing routes that pass over shallow crevices and near dark green vegetation you're increasing your chances of finding edible wildlife. In the desert that is likely to be snakes, reptiles, and scorpions, but in some areas could include rabbits and other small mammals and even birds and insects like ants and centipedes.
Tip: If you're short on water, avoid eating food. Digestion will use up your body's water stores -- which you need right now to keep your brain and internal organs functioning.
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Th avobe comes from some idiot who has never set foot on African soil. "The desert is an obstacle".SMH it's an obstacle to foreign folks, indeed. Not to locals.
quote:Originally posted by Ogamtolo:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: That depends on the individual. And how well one is familiar with the of the region. I say a foreign person is likely to die, rather quickly. Only a few weeks. The map by Herodotus shows the fear factor.
How could any person with no horse or camel walk across desert and have enough water to survive beyond a few days ?
There are water sources within the desert, sometimes natural sometimes artificially made. As I said, indigenous ethnic groups are familiar with these sources. This is why it's a barrier to foreign people and not to indigenous people.
I live in the SW United States. 2hr drive from Death Valley.
"56.7 °C The hottest air temperature ever recorded in Death Valley was 134 °F (56.7 °C) on July 10, 1913, at Furnace Creek, which is the hottest atmospheric temperature ever recorded on earth. During the heat wave that peaked with that record, five consecutive days reached 129 °F (54 °C) or above."
Yet people thrive and have lived out here for centuries. (The Shoshone Tribe) So this info will definitely relate.
"Las Vegas" means "The Meadows"
There's a reason the Spanish named two places in the middle in the inhospitable SW desert that.
I have heard of this place. The Death Valley. I would like visit it at on time. So I can make comparisons. They say that it's the hottest place on earth. Does it cool down at the evening and night, and if so, how much?
The Sahara-Sahel region is fundamental to the build up of ancient Egypt, Northeast Africa.
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Kerma, the capital of the first kingdom of Sub-Saharan Africa, is located in the heart of Sudanese Nubia.
Nubia is a vast region located in northern Sudan and southern Egypt, between the First and the Fifth cataracts. South of the Second Cataract, numerous rock outcrops, which give the area its rugged terrain and make access difficult, have limited the movement of populations. In fact, this area is called the ”belly of the stones” because it was a natural boundary that impeded contact between the Nubians and the Egyptians.
The Kerma region is in the centre of Nubia, a few kilometres upstream from the Third Cataract. This strategic location allows for the control of communications along the Nile Valley; it opens onto the largest alluvial plain of northern Sudan (15 to 20 km wide along 200 km). These natural conditions played an important role in the region’s population dynamics and explain, in part, its archaeological wealth, during prehistoric and historical periods.]
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: What hair type did Africans evolve to adapt to cold environments?
Silly Cow, in your ignorance you assume that humans evolved in the hottest environments. Not so, humans evolved in the most "Perfect" environment. At the Equator in Africa the temperature is a perfect 80-85 degrees ALL YEAR LONG!!!!
But you can be forgiven for you ignorance because your Albino power-structure has decided to misinform you on this. Note the temperature maps that they make for you.
This is the actual equator where the temperature is perfect.
So you see, in the moderate environment where modern man first evolved, this type of hair (the type that almost all animals have) was perfectly fine.
(Note that the skin is very dark: it has to be, the UV at the Equator is always the max. of (11). Albinos like you don't last very long here).
Since this type of hair is also good for cold weather, no change was necessary.
The actual HOTTEST places are on both sides of the Equator. They are:
Dallol, Ethiopia Dallol is known as the hottest inhabited place on earth, where the average daily maximum temperature is upwards of 106 degrees Fahrenheit.
Wadi Halfa, Sudan This city on the border with Egypt has hit 127 degrees Fahrenheit.
Death Valley, California This California desert has seen temperatures of 134 degrees Fahrenheit.
Update: As of September 14, The World Meteorological Organization has officially recognized Death Valley as the world's hottest place on earth at 136 degrees.
Lut Desert, Iran Temperatures of 159.3 degrees have been recorded in this Iranian desert. Discovery explains why this didn't topple El Aziza'a record.
Tirat Tsvi, Israel This Israeli town, called the hottest place in Asia, has seen the mercury-busting temperature of 129 degrees Fahrenheit.
Timbuktu, Mali Timbuktu has seen the sweltering temperature of 130 degrees.
Queensland, Australia Steer clear of the Australian state of Queensland if it's going to be 156 degrees Fahrenheit out there.
Turfan, China This area in the northwest part of China's Xinjiang province can see temperatures of 122 degrees Fahrenheit.
Kebili, Tunisia Temperatures can hit 131 degrees Fahrenheit in Kebili.
Ghadames, Libya In Ghadames, the temperature can soar to 131 degrees Fahrenheit.
posted
One of the most interesting topics is the demographic of Northeast and northwest Africa. Inhabitation and population growth, within the last few millenniums.
Repost, for the sake of the argument.
quote:"Karl Butzer has estimated that two areas of greatest population density in dyanstic times were between Luxor{Waset} and Aswan {Elephantine} at the first cataract,and from Medium at the fayum entrance northwards to the apex of the Delta.
IN between was Middle Egypt,a geogrpahic buffer zone with a lower population density. It is worth bearing in mind that the total population of egypt at the time the Giza pyramids were built is estimated to have been 1.6 million,compared with 58 million in Ad 1995."
Mark Lehner, Page 7. The Complete Pyramids
"It is nonetheless probable that settlements were far more dispersed than they were in Upper Egypt, that overall population density was significantly lower, and that the northernmost one-third of the Delta was ALMOST UNDERPOPULATED in Old Kingdom times. In effect, a considerable body of information can be marshalled to show that the Delta was UNDERDEVELOPED and that internal colonization continued for some three millennia, until the late Ptolemaic era."
The Sahara-Sahel region is fundamental to the build up of ancient Egypt, Northeast Africa.
[/QB]
where is the evidence that apart from along the Nile the Sahara-Sahel region is fundamental to the build up of ancient Egypt?
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Ethiopian Genetic Diversity Reveals Linguistic Stratification and Complex Influences on the Ethiopian Gene Pool
Luca Pagani, Toomas Kivisild, Ayele Tarekegn, Rosemary Ekong, Chris Plaster, Irene Gallego Romero, Qasim Ayub, S. Qasim Mehdi, Mark G. Thomas, Donata Luiselli, Endashaw Bekele, Neil Bradman, David J. Balding, Chris Tyler-Smith Open Archive DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.ajhg.2012.05.015
ADMIXTURE analyses revealed a major (40%–50%) contribution to the Ethiopian Semitic-Cushitic genomes that is similar to that of non-African populations. Our estimates of genetic similarity between this component and extant non-African populations suggest that the source was more likely the Levant than the Arabian Peninsula. We estimate that this admixture event took place approximately 3 kya. The more recent admixture dates for the Oromo and Afar can be explained by the effect of a subsequent Islamic expansion that particularly impacted these groups, as well as the North Africans.52 Levant people may have arrived in Ethiopia via land or sea subsequently, leaving a similar signature also in modern Egyptians, or the similarity between Ethiopians and Egyptians may be a consequence of independent genetic relationships. This putative migration from the Levant to Ethiopia, which is also supported by linguistic evidence, may have carried the derived western Eurasian allele of SLC24A5, which is associated with light skin pigmentation. Although potentially disadvantageous due to the high intensity of UV radiation in the area, the SLC24A5 allele has maintained a substantial frequency in the Semitic-Cushitic populations, perhaps driven by social factors including sexual selection. The “African” component of the Ethiopian genomes may also result in part from recent migrations into Ethiopia from other parts of Africa, a possibility that we have not examined here.
The estimated time (3 kya) and the geographic origin (the Levant) of the gene flow into Ethiopia are consistent with both the model of Early Bronze Age origins of Semitic languages and the reported age estimate (2.8 kya) of the Ethio-Semitic language group.23 They are also consistent with the legend of Makeda, the Queen of Sheba. According to the version recorded in the Ethiopian Kebra Nagast (a traditional Ethiopian book on the origins of the kings), this influential Ethiopian queen (who, according to Hansberry,53 reigned between 1005 and 955 BCE) visited King Solomon—ruler, in biblical tradition, of the United Kingdom of Israel and Judah—bringing back, in addition to important trading links, a son. The ancient kingdom of Axum adopted Christianity as early as the fourth century. Historical contacts established between Ethiopia and the Middle East were maintained across the centuries, with the Ethiopian church in regular contact with Alexandria, Egypt. These long-lasting links between the two regions are reflected in influences still apparent in the modern Ethiopian cultural and, as we show here, genetic landscapes.
An abundance of evidence suggests that all modern non-Africans descend predominantly from a single African source via a dispersal event some 50 to 70 kya.6, 7, 27, 49 However, debate continues about whether the principal migratory route out of Africa was north of the Red Sea to the Levant, or across its mouth to the Arabian Peninsula. The actual source of the migrations within Africa is a different question, but we assume that the migrators would have left genetic signatures in Egypt if they took the northern route or in Ethiopia if they took the southern route. We chose reference non-African populations along the two putative routes. However, both the northern and eastern Africans have genetic distances (FST) that gradually increase with geographic distance along both routes. This also holds true when Ethiopian populations that show little evidence of recent non-African gene flow (Omotic and Nilotic) are used as a source. A minimum-pairwise-distance measure based on the African component of the genome found that the Ethiopian mtDNA component was closer to non-African populations than was the Egyptian mtDNA component, as previously reported,50 but that the autosomal genome of non-Africans was closer to the African component of the Egyptian rather than Ethiopian populations. This could be interpreted as supporting a northern exit route. However, the 80% non-African proportion of the Egyptian genome (Figure 1C) reduces the power of our comparisons and, taken together with the requirement for the African state in at least ten chromosomes, means that this conclusion is based on just ∼1,800 SNPs (compared to 18,960 for the Ethiopians, 30,798 for the Mozabite, and 5,920 for the Moroccans). Therefore, the question requires further investigation beyond the scope of the present study.
On a broader time scale, the LD analyses pointed to click speakers, Pygmies, and a Nigerian-Congolese group as all having a deeper population history than both the whole genome and the African component of the East Africans sampled. Although this result might seem inconsistent with the outstanding fossil record available from Ethiopia, it may illustrate that genetic diversity assessed from modern populations does not necessarily represent their long-term demographic histories at the site. Alternatively, the rich record of human fossil ancestors in Ethiopia, and indeed along the Rift Valley, may reflect biases of preservation and discovery, with more fossils being exposed in regions of geological activity. Fluctuations in effective population size in the past and dispersals within Africa may have further confounded our analyses and their correlation with the fossil record. The fact that the observed genetic diversity in Ethiopia is lower than in some other African populations does not negate the possibility that Ethiopia was the cradle of anatomically modern humans. However, interpretations of the LD-based analyses may be challenged by future work in two key respects. First, whole-genome sequences can provide an independent measure of the demographic history of the groups studied,54 but they have not yet been applied to Ethiopian samples. Second, there is a need for a better understanding of the implication for the genomic recombination landscape of the observed allelic differences in PRDM9 (MIM 609760).55 The higher frequencies of the active allele reported for the West African Yoruba compared with the Eastern African Maasai might therefore imply the need for rethinking the direct correlation between LD patterns and population age.
In conclusion, Ethiopian SNP genotypes give insights into evolutionary questions on several timescales. Whether or not modern Ethiopians can be identified as the best living representatives of an ancestral human population, or even of the out-of-Africa movement, the data presented here reveal imprints of historical events that accompanied the formation of the rich cultural and genetic diversity observed in the area. Furthermore, we observe strong genetic structuring in East Africa, including a strong match between the linguistic and genetic structures. This is exemplified by the three distinct PC clusters (Omotic, Nilotic, and Semitic-Cushitic), confirming Ethiopia as one of the most diverse African regions.
Admixture into and within sub-Saharan Africa February 1, 2016.
George Busby, Gavin Band, Quang Si Le, Muminatou Jallow, Edith Bougama, Valentina Mangano, Lucas Amenga-Etego, Anthony Emil, Tobias Apinjoh, Carolyne Ndila, Alphaxard Manjurano, Vysaul Nyirongo, Ogobara Doumbo, Kirk Rockett, Domnic Kwiatkowski, Chris Spencer, The Malaria Genomic Epidemiology Network doi: http://dx.doi.org/10.1101/038406
In the Afroasiatic speaking populations of East Africa we infer admixture involving sources containing mostly Eurasian ancestry, which most closely matches the Tuscans (TSI, Figure 4). This ancestry appears to have entered the Horn of Africa in three distinct waves (Figure 5). We infer admixture involving Eurasian sources in the Afar (326CE: 7-587CE), Wolayta (268CE: 8BCE-602CE), Tigray (36CE: 196BCE- 240CE), and Ari (689BCE:965-297BCE). There are no Middle Eastern groups in our analysis, and this latter group of events may represent previously observed migrations from the Arabian peninsular from the same time [Pagani et al., 2012; Hodgson et al., 2014a]. Considering Afroasiatic and Nilo-Saharan speakers separately, the ancestry of the major sources of admixture of the former are predominantly local (purple), indicative of less historical interaction with Niger-Congo speakers due to their previously reported Middle Eastern ancestry [Pagani et al., 2012]. In Nilo-Saharan speaking groups, the Sudanese (1341CE: 1225- 1660), Gumuz (1544CE: 1384-1718), Anuak (703: 427-1037CE), and Maasai (1646CE: 1584-1743CE), we infer greater proportions of West (blue) and East (orange) African Niger-Congo speaking surrogates in the major sources of admixture, indicating both that the Eurasian admixture occurred into groups with mixed Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan / Afroasiatic ancestry, and a clear recent link with Central and West African groups
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I would guess that this name is linked to the Sudd or River, and forest, not the open savanna, and not really open agricultural nor nomadic herder.
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quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: Th avobe comes from some idiot who has never set foot on African soil. "The desert is an obstacle".SMH it's an obstacle to foreign folks, indeed. Not to locals.
quote:Originally posted by Ogamtolo:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor:
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: That depends on the individual. And how well one is familiar with the of the region. I say a foreign person is likely to die, rather quickly. Only a few weeks. The map by Herodotus shows the fear factor.
How could any person with no horse or camel walk across desert and have enough water to survive beyond a few days ?
There are water sources within the desert, sometimes natural sometimes artificially made. As I said, indigenous ethnic groups are familiar with these sources. This is why it's a barrier to foreign people and not to indigenous people.
I live in the SW United States. 2hr drive from Death Valley.
"56.7 °C The hottest air temperature ever recorded in Death Valley was 134 °F (56.7 °C) on July 10, 1913, at Furnace Creek, which is the hottest atmospheric temperature ever recorded on earth. During the heat wave that peaked with that record, five consecutive days reached 129 °F (54 °C) or above."
Yet people thrive and have lived out here for centuries. (The Shoshone Tribe) So this info will definitely relate.
"Las Vegas" means "The Meadows"
There's a reason the Spanish named two places in the middle in the inhospitable SW desert that.
I have heard of this place. The Death Valley. I would like visit it at on time. So I can make comparisons. They say that it's the hottest place on earth. Does it cool down at the evening and night, and if so, how much?
The Sahara-Sahel region is fundamental to the build up of ancient Egypt, Northeast Africa.
Sorry for the late reply.
In the winter the avarege temperature is around 40-50 degrees F, although there have been a few instances where the low was in the 30s. That might not seem like much, but when the average temp is 100 plus 40-50 degrees is pretty cold to those of us who are climatized to the desert.
In the summer it usually cools to an average of 90-100 degrees F when the sun goes down.
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: Afar man, Ethiopia
Ethiopian Genetic Diversity Reveals Linguistic Stratification and Complex Influences on the Ethiopian Gene Pool
Luca Pagani, Toomas Kivisild, Ayele Tarekegn, Rosemary Ekong, Chris Plaster, Irene Gallego Romero, Qasim Ayub, S. Qasim Mehdi, Mark G. Thomas, Donata Luiselli, Endashaw Bekele, Neil Bradman, David J. Balding, Chris Tyler-Smith Open Archive DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.ajhg.2012.05.015
ADMIXTURE analyses revealed a major (40%–50%) contribution to the Ethiopian Semitic-Cushitic genomes that is similar to that of non-African populations. Our estimates of genetic similarity between this component and extant non-African populations suggest that the source was more likely the Levant than the Arabian Peninsula. We estimate that this admixture event took place approximately 3 kya. The more recent admixture dates for the Oromo and Afar can be explained by the effect of a subsequent Islamic expansion that particularly impacted these groups, as well as the North Africans.52 Levant people may have arrived in Ethiopia via land or sea subsequently, leaving a similar signature also in modern Egyptians, or the similarity between Ethiopians and Egyptians may be a consequence of independent genetic relationships. This putative migration from the Levant to Ethiopia, which is also supported by linguistic evidence, may have carried the derived western Eurasian allele of SLC24A5, which is associated with light skin pigmentation. Although potentially disadvantageous due to the high intensity of UV radiation in the area, the SLC24A5 allele has maintained a substantial frequency in the Semitic-Cushitic populations, perhaps driven by social factors including sexual selection. The “African” component of the Ethiopian genomes may also result in part from recent migrations into Ethiopia from other parts of Africa, a possibility that we have not examined here.
The estimated time (3 kya) and the geographic origin (the Levant) of the gene flow into Ethiopia are consistent with both the model of Early Bronze Age origins of Semitic languages and the reported age estimate (2.8 kya) of the Ethio-Semitic language group.23 They are also consistent with the legend of Makeda, the Queen of Sheba. According to the version recorded in the Ethiopian Kebra Nagast (a traditional Ethiopian book on the origins of the kings), this influential Ethiopian queen (who, according to Hansberry,53 reigned between 1005 and 955 BCE) visited King Solomon—ruler, in biblical tradition, of the United Kingdom of Israel and Judah—bringing back, in addition to important trading links, a son. The ancient kingdom of Axum adopted Christianity as early as the fourth century. Historical contacts established between Ethiopia and the Middle East were maintained across the centuries, with the Ethiopian church in regular contact with Alexandria, Egypt. These long-lasting links between the two regions are reflected in influences still apparent in the modern Ethiopian cultural and, as we show here, genetic landscapes.
An abundance of evidence suggests that all modern non-Africans descend predominantly from a single African source via a dispersal event some 50 to 70 kya.6, 7, 27, 49 However, debate continues about whether the principal migratory route out of Africa was north of the Red Sea to the Levant, or across its mouth to the Arabian Peninsula. The actual source of the migrations within Africa is a different question, but we assume that the migrators would have left genetic signatures in Egypt if they took the northern route or in Ethiopia if they took the southern route. We chose reference non-African populations along the two putative routes. However, both the northern and eastern Africans have genetic distances (FST) that gradually increase with geographic distance along both routes. This also holds true when Ethiopian populations that show little evidence of recent non-African gene flow (Omotic and Nilotic) are used as a source. A minimum-pairwise-distance measure based on the African component of the genome found that the Ethiopian mtDNA component was closer to non-African populations than was the Egyptian mtDNA component, as previously reported,50 but that the autosomal genome of non-Africans was closer to the African component of the Egyptian rather than Ethiopian populations. This could be interpreted as supporting a northern exit route. However, the 80% non-African proportion of the Egyptian genome (Figure 1C) reduces the power of our comparisons and, taken together with the requirement for the African state in at least ten chromosomes, means that this conclusion is based on just ∼1,800 SNPs (compared to 18,960 for the Ethiopians, 30,798 for the Mozabite, and 5,920 for the Moroccans). Therefore, the question requires further investigation beyond the scope of the present study.
On a broader time scale, the LD analyses pointed to click speakers, Pygmies, and a Nigerian-Congolese group as all having a deeper population history than both the whole genome and the African component of the East Africans sampled. Although this result might seem inconsistent with the outstanding fossil record available from Ethiopia, it may illustrate that genetic diversity assessed from modern populations does not necessarily represent their long-term demographic histories at the site. Alternatively, the rich record of human fossil ancestors in Ethiopia, and indeed along the Rift Valley, may reflect biases of preservation and discovery, with more fossils being exposed in regions of geological activity. Fluctuations in effective population size in the past and dispersals within Africa may have further confounded our analyses and their correlation with the fossil record. The fact that the observed genetic diversity in Ethiopia is lower than in some other African populations does not negate the possibility that Ethiopia was the cradle of anatomically modern humans. However, interpretations of the LD-based analyses may be challenged by future work in two key respects. First, whole-genome sequences can provide an independent measure of the demographic history of the groups studied,54 but they have not yet been applied to Ethiopian samples. Second, there is a need for a better understanding of the implication for the genomic recombination landscape of the observed allelic differences in PRDM9 (MIM 609760).55 The higher frequencies of the active allele reported for the West African Yoruba compared with the Eastern African Maasai might therefore imply the need for rethinking the direct correlation between LD patterns and population age.
In conclusion, Ethiopian SNP genotypes give insights into evolutionary questions on several timescales. Whether or not modern Ethiopians can be identified as the best living representatives of an ancestral human population, or even of the out-of-Africa movement, the data presented here reveal imprints of historical events that accompanied the formation of the rich cultural and genetic diversity observed in the area. Furthermore, we observe strong genetic structuring in East Africa, including a strong match between the linguistic and genetic structures. This is exemplified by the three distinct PC clusters (Omotic, Nilotic, and Semitic-Cushitic), confirming Ethiopia as one of the most diverse African regions.
Admixture into and within sub-Saharan Africa February 1, 2016.
George Busby, Gavin Band, Quang Si Le, Muminatou Jallow, Edith Bougama, Valentina Mangano, Lucas Amenga-Etego, Anthony Emil, Tobias Apinjoh, Carolyne Ndila, Alphaxard Manjurano, Vysaul Nyirongo, Ogobara Doumbo, Kirk Rockett, Domnic Kwiatkowski, Chris Spencer, The Malaria Genomic Epidemiology Network doi: http://dx.doi.org/10.1101/038406
In the Afroasiatic speaking populations of East Africa we infer admixture involving sources containing mostly Eurasian ancestry, which most closely matches the Tuscans (TSI, Figure 4). This ancestry appears to have entered the Horn of Africa in three distinct waves (Figure 5). We infer admixture involving Eurasian sources in the Afar (326CE: 7-587CE), Wolayta (268CE: 8BCE-602CE), Tigray (36CE: 196BCE- 240CE), and Ari (689BCE:965-297BCE). There are no Middle Eastern groups in our analysis, and this latter group of events may represent previously observed migrations from the Arabian peninsular from the same time [Pagani et al., 2012; Hodgson et al., 2014a]. Considering Afroasiatic and Nilo-Saharan speakers separately, the ancestry of the major sources of admixture of the former are predominantly local (purple), indicative of less historical interaction with Niger-Congo speakers due to their previously reported Middle Eastern ancestry [Pagani et al., 2012]. In Nilo-Saharan speaking groups, the Sudanese (1341CE: 1225- 1660), Gumuz (1544CE: 1384-1718), Anuak (703: 427-1037CE), and Maasai (1646CE: 1584-1743CE), we infer greater proportions of West (blue) and East (orange) African Niger-Congo speaking surrogates in the major sources of admixture, indicating both that the Eurasian admixture occurred into groups with mixed Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan / Afroasiatic ancestry, and a clear recent link with Central and West African groups
AGAIN the same post. LOL Of this supposed back migration all over the sub Sahara Africa. By a so called non-African people. LOL we have responded to this nonsense how many times already.? LOL SMH there was not such "back migration by Eurasians" it's nonsense. You fool!
Posts: 22244 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
So you're saying their has been no admixture with Eurasians in Ethiopia? You can't be serious. Do you know the history? Do you know the genetics?
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posted
East Africans are the bridge between out of Africa and in(-ner) Africa migration. There was no mass back migration from "eurasia", perhaps some snippets here and there at max. Bidirectionally the same people lived on both sides of the Red Sea, a population('s) which originated at East Africa in the first place.
quote: Breton et al. analyze lactase persistence variants and genome-wide SNPs among southern African groups and show that Khoe pastoralists have partial East African ancestry. This finding suggests that an East African group migrated south, brought pastoralism to southern Africa, and admixed with local hunter-gatherers to form the ancestors of Khoe.
--Gwenna Breton et al.
Lactase Persistence Alleles Reveal Partial East African Ancestry of Southern African Khoe Pastoralists
Received: November 26, 2013; Received in revised form: December 20, 2013; Accepted: February 15, 2014; Published Online: April 03, 2014 Published: April 3, 2014 DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2014.02.041
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: perhaps some snippets here and there at max.
In other words, you have no idea what the amount of admixture is in Ethiopia, you haven't studied the topic
Posts: 42940 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: So you're saying their has been no admixture with Eurasians in Ethiopia? You can't be serious. Do you know the history? Do you know the genetics?
I am serious and I know history and genetics. It's fools like you who don't. As I have stated repeatedly on both sides of the Red Sea the same people have lived. This supposed back migration by Eurasians is a joke. Hg J originated at Northeast Africa, Southern Levant, the Sinai.
Dana has schooled you so many times on ancient Arabian Peninsula populations, I started to pity you. But this Eurocentric back migration claim has been circling around for a while. Especially the claim of linguisticall influence, a typical internet hype. lol
For you to ask, do you know genetics is merely but funny. Fool!
quote: According to the current data East Africa is home to nearly 2/3 of the world genetic diversity independent of sampling effect. Similar figure have been suggested for sub-Saharan Africa populations [1]. The antiquity of the east African gene pool could be viewed not only from the perspective of the amount of genetic diversity endowed within it but also by signals of uni-modal distribution in their mitochondrial DNA (Hassan et al., unpublished) usually taken as an indication of populations that have passed through ‘‘recent’’ demographic expansion [33], although in this case, may in fact be considered a sign of extended shared history of in situ evolution where alleles are exchanged between neighboring demes [34].
Figure S1 Neighbor joining (NJ). NJ tree of the world populations based on MT-CO2 sequences. The evolutionary relationship of 171 sequences and evolutionary history was inferred using the Neighbor-Joining method. The optimal tree with the sum of branch length = 0.20401570 is shown. The evolutionary distances were computed using the Maximum Composite Likelihood method and are in the units of the number of base substitutions per site. Codon positions included were 1st+2nd+3rd+Noncoding. All positions containing gaps and missing data were eliminated from the dataset. There were a total of 543 positions in the final dataset. Phylogenetic analyses were conducted in MEGA4. Red dots: east Africa, Blue: Africa, Green: Asia, Yellow: Australia, Pink: Europe and gray: America. (TIF)
Figure S2 Multidimensional Scaling Plot (MDS). The 2nd and 3rd coordinates of an MDS plot of 848 nuclear microsatellite loci from 469 individuals of 24 world populations. MDS uses pairwise IBS data based on the 848 loci generated by PLINK software and plotted using R version 2.15.0. The figure, besides a separate clustering of east Africans, indicates the substantial contribution of Africans and east Africans to the founding of populations of Europe and Asia. (TIF)
Figure S3 Multidimensional Scaling Plot (MDS). The 3rd and 4th coordinates of an MDS plot of 848 Microsatellite loci, across the human genome in 469 individuals from 24 populations from Africa, Asia and Europe. MDS uses pairwise IBS data based on the 848 loci generated by PLINK software and plotted using R version 2.15.0. The central position of east Africans and some other Africans emphasizes the founding role of east African gene pool and the disparate alignment on coordinates along which the world populations were founded including populations of Aftica aligning along the 4th dimension. (TIF)
Figure 4. Multidimensional Scaling Plot (MDS). A. First and second coordinates of an MDS plot of 848 Microsatellite Marshfield data set across the human genome for 24 populations from Africa, Asia and Europe. MDS plot was constructed from pairwise differences FST generated by Arlequin program (Table S3). B. First and second coordinates of an MDS plot of 848 Microsatellite loci, across the human genome in 469 individuals from 24 populations from Africa, Asia and Europe. MDS uses pairwise IBS data based on the 848 loci generated by PLINK software and plotted using R version 2.15.0. East Africans cluster to the left of the plot, while Beja (red cluster in the middle), assumes intermediate position. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0097674.g004
Figure S4 Multidimensional Scaling Plot (MDS). First and second coordinates of an MDS plot based on MT-CO2 data set constructed from pairwise differences FST generated by Arlequin v3.11. Population code as follows: Nara: Nar, Kunama (Kun), Hidarb (Hid), Afar (Afa), Saho (Sah), Bilen (Bil), Tigre (Tgr), Tigrigna (Tig), Rashaida (Rsh), Nilotics (Nil), Beja (Bej), Ethiopians(Eth), Egyptians (Egy), Moroccans (Mor), Southern Africans (Sth), Pygmy (Pyg), Saudi Arabia (Sdi), Asia (Asi), Europe (Eur), Native Americans (NA), Australians (Ast), Nubians (Nub), Nuba (Nba) (TIF)
--Jibril Hirbo, Sara Tishkoff et al.
The Episode of Genetic Drift Defining the Migration of Humans out of Africa Is Derived from a Large East African Population Size
PLoS One. 2014; 9(5): e97674. Published online 2014 May 20. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0097674
And surprisingly the following was stated by Brenna Henn, in this interview on population genetics and population structure, considering African populations.
“African populations have the most genetic diversity in the world,” Henn said. “If you compared people from the Kalahari Desert to people from Mali, they’d be as different from each other [genetically] as Italians and Chinese people.”
Why are other populations of humans so much less genetically varied than Africans? The answer, Henn explains, lies in our ancestors’ history; the groups of people that migrated out of Africa and spread throughout other continents were smaller subsets of that original, genetically diverse population.
"AND WITHIN EACH OF THESE GROUPS THERE IS AN AMAZING AMOUNT OF DIVERSITY, [...] THE DIVERSITY IS INDIGNIOUS TO AFRICAN POPULATIONS":
Tracing Family Trees, And Human History, With Genetics
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