quote:Originally posted by Doug M: The only reason the word "black" is supposedly so problematic in anthropology and human history is because of racism and colonization. When Europeans started colonizing the world they found so many blacks that they knew the world started with black people. And by inference that means culture, civilization, arts and science started with black people all over the planet.
Outside of Africa what other black people started civilizations and used science?
Posts: 42934 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Cept whites branded people who weren't Sub Saharan Africans as black (both ancient and modern). So how does it strictly refer to SSAs? In the words of a certain celebrity
Cuz I ain't muling!
quote:Originally posted by Black Crystal: Bruh. Black = Subsaharan African. It ain't that deep!
quote:Originally posted by Ase: "I" am reinventing the wheel? Incorrect. They were the ones that treated upper Egyptians and Nubians like black savages. They were the ones that treated Aboriginals as black. They were the ones that coined the term "Negritos" to describe darker Asians. Blackness was applied to them and black Africans by whites. So some blacks are claiming dark skinned people because there were no other unifying characteristics to establish a "criteria."
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Yes. It shows that the black race is opinion. Some people would say its for people living below the desert in Africa but opinions change for African Americans, pale African and Berbers. Race is opinion. Pigment genes are objective so I personally go by pigment genes.
Posts: 1254 | From: howdy | Registered: Mar 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Fourty2Tribes: Yes. It shows that the black race is opinion. Some people would say its for people living below the desert in Africa but opinions change for African Americans, pale African and Berbers. Race is opinion. Pigment genes are objective so I personally go by pigment genes.
Race is not opinion when you are claiming people who do not want to be claimed by you!!! That is likened to browbeating someone with your belief!
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
No, black = much more than anybody's SSA. Always has, always will
I am not recently (last 12ky) related to Asia's blacks. Hell I don't even claim close relation to most of Africa's blacks. I don't claim stake to any history outside of my particular ethnicity. Don't mean mine and theirs together don't equal a linked African History.
Same for all the blacks (and black is a color).
I am not the Melanesian (pursue that word's etymology). I am not the Black Fella of Australia (who celebrate a Black History month and resent Americans trying to exclusively claim black status). Nor am I the Arab Crow or Indian lil black Sambo.
I am big red Samba of the Senegal, my recent relations are other Atlantic speakers and neighboring folk intermarried with Atlantic speakers. Just one set of black people in West Africa among other black peoples in Africa among other black peoples of the southern Eastern Hemisphere.
East Africans knew of blacks far from the continent and never claimed any but colour relationship. That's on record from 1200 years ago, long before your people invented your negro (a highly stereotyped set of physical features supposedly shared by enslaved Gulf of Guinea Africans) or racially hierarchical anthropology without asking the opinion of any of the people involved: "Shut up and listen to us telling you who and what you are" backed up by our armies and navies and our myopic European ethnocentric ideaologies.
And the strawman attacks against unquoted uncited supposed Afrocentrics, please. Please reference even just one degreed published Afrocentric. Do you know any? Do you know what Afrocentrism actually is? It's an academic discipline taught at a handfull of universities is what it is.
Yet everybody here to their disadvantage accepts a hostile white media manufactured and defined Afrocentrism as authentic.
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What black people chose to define themselves racially as black in a western sense? I don't know too many Africans brought to the Americas begging to be deemed "black" by white supremacists. If a Dominican doesn't want to be black but looks black, that doesn't mean he's white. Same with self hating African Americans. Suddenly, when it's inconvenient to white supremacists, racial identity becomes a matter of choice and are just helping protect people from a fraudulent mindset created through their/your irrational doctrines. Course when a few white liberals fell for your nonsense, truly believed that race is a "choice" and did stuff like this
the powers that be let em know with the quickness that race is only a choice when debating blacks, not in real life. Gender is a social construct that can be chosen according to the west, but not race. You keep dodging too. WHAT are the features that ALL black people had/have besides darker skin colors? Blacks can be Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Australoid, blonde hair, kinky hair, black hair, loose hair and tens of thousands of years distance in genetic relationship.
Still they were/are deemed black. So how is blackness as a race not opinion? What makes race a valid biological construct? If you don't like people talking about black = darkskin, explain what (besides darker skin) connects all the people that were regarded as black by the same white supremacists trying to shift goalposts? You can't. You tried it by attempting to limit discussion to Sub Saharan Africa so now you're just ignoring what you've been asked to do to demonstrate your point. And of course as some rightfully pointed out there's still a LOT of diversity even among SSAs.
quote:Originally posted by Black Crystal:
quote:Originally posted by Fourty2Tribes: Yes. It shows that the black race is opinion. Some people would say its for people living below the desert in Africa but opinions change for African Americans, pale African and Berbers. Race is opinion. Pigment genes are objective so I personally go by pigment genes.
Race is not opinion when you are claiming people who do not want to be claimed by you!!! That is likened to browbeating someone with your belief!
quote:Originally posted by Black Crystal: Race is not opinion when you are claiming people who do not want to be claimed by you!!! That is likened to browbeating someone with your belief!
Do these people claim on they're black?
Its still opinion. They might agree or disagree. At one point many had the opinion that Irish were too monkeyish to be white. It would have been my opinion that they are too pale to not be white if you are going to have a white race.
When Candace Owens was a model did not classify herself as black. I think she said she was Caribbean. Most would disagree but its her opinion.
Posts: 1254 | From: howdy | Registered: Mar 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Black Crystal: Rubbish....
Why not measure race by hair texture or cranial morphology? Why must race be determined by skin color, solely, as you indicate?
quote:Originally posted by Doug M: The only reason the word "black" is supposedly so problematic in anthropology and human history is because of racism and colonization. When Europeans started colonizing the world they found so many blacks that they knew the world started with black people. And by inference that means culture, civilization, arts and science started with black people all over the planet. So they had to make up the pseudo science of race to distort the facts of history and make up all sorts of "other races" as if these "different shades of brown" aren't just variations of evolution among aboriginal black people. And of course in all of this they have always put light skin at the top of the pyramid of human evolution. This was then used as part of the indoctrination process in colonies world wide and promote white skin supremacy. Also the continuing European global control of major institutions of biology and anthropology based on the theft of artifacts from people around the world in the during colonial era, allows them to continue spreading propaganda and misinformation in the name of "science".
Because "race" is a pseudo-scientific concept created by white people in the last 500 years to justify conquest and murder and erase the history of black people and civilizations around the world.
It has nothing to do with anything other than white people wanting to distort the history of the planet and put themselves on top because of their WHITE skin.
They have done such a good job of brainwashing most of the planet that nobody questions what "white" means. Yet some folks have the gall to question what black means....as if it isn't obvious.
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Why are you saying this if there is so much record of slaves ships, numbers of Africans coming from West Africa and the vast majority of AAs who have had their DNA tested have SSA haplotype E1b1a rather than E-M81 the berber marker? Don't tell me you have been duped by that MST madness
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
MST madness? Why are you deprecating this sect? What is so insane compared to other Big 3 tenets? But maybe I get a bigger point. Why default to any religion created in the USA for any peoples' origins?
Or what about Aristotle's observation(racist?) that "Too black a hue marks a coward as is the case with Egyptians and Nubians. So too, too white a hue as you see with women. The best color is the intermediate tawny color the lion. That color makes for courage"
PHYSIOGNOMICA Or the Roman historian Ammianus Marcellinus who wrote that "Aegypiti plerique(the majority) subfusculi(very dark) et atrati(wearing black clothes)sunt(are)
Then note too that in Greco-Roman times blacks were known as "Ethiopians" and in Elizebethan times there were "black-a-moor" and "tawny moor"--living Supra Sahara.
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Why are you saying this if there is so much record of slaves ships, numbers of Africans coming from West Africa and the vast majority of AAs who have had their DNA tested have SSA haplotype E1b1a rather than E-M81 the berber marker? Don't tell me you have been duped by that MST madness
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The majority of African Americans are of West African SSA descent. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. That doesn't some weren't from other place.
Posts: 42934 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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You were just trying to hide things by using the term "Berber marker" and E M81. instead of saying E1b1b. Both E1b1a and E1b1b descend from an African source E. And there is empirical evidence that E1b1b has roots in East Africa.
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[ 01. December 2018, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: the lioness, ]
Posts: 5492 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by lamin: You were just trying to hide things by using the term "Berber marker" and E M81. instead of saying E1b1b. Both E1b1a and E1b1b descend from an African source E. And there is empirical evidence that E1b1b has roots in East Africa.
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Most African Americans are not of East African descent nor Berber
Posts: 42934 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Point is that you are still being evasive. E1b1b is not some "Berber" haplogroup. It is rather an East African haplogroup sharing the same parentage as E.
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