posted
This was a meme I saw on my Facebook feed today. Personally, if those aren't simply wrinkles on the saint's brow, maybe they could be scarifications?
Regardless, does anyone know where the image on the left comes from? Is it really St. Nick being portrayed here (despite the original St. Nicholas supposedly coming from Turkey rather than Africa), or some other saint?
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Afreccentric/Blakcentric poppycock that Greek off-white St Nicholas was a forehead cicatriced African from where ever.
What about the authentic Catholic/Orthodox bishops of African descent?
I sure hope a descendant of Middle Passage survivors, ashamed of Africa, and just wannabe a white European in blackface, didn't put that meme combining two fantasies together.
Meanwhile, Victor, Miltiades, and Gelasius go unsung.
Of no use for esteemless needers to justify their Black Santa.
Here's a 16th c copy of a 12th century Russian icon of the brotha
quote:Originally posted by Tyrannohotep: This was a meme I saw on my Facebook feed today. Personally, if those aren't simply wrinkles on the saint's brow, maybe they could be scarifications?
Regardless, does anyone know where the image on the left comes from? Is it really St. Nick being portrayed here (despite the original St. Nicholas supposedly coming from Turkey rather than Africa), or some other saint?
Why are you mentioning Africa?
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posted
Very little is known for certain about the life of our Nicholas, beyond that he was bishop of Myra in the late third to early fourth century CE. It is possible that he was one of the few hundred bishops that attended the 325 CE Council of Nicaea, as the majority of those bishops were from the Eastern provinces and many were never named. However, none of Nicholas’s contemporaries mentions him specifically. It is an unfortunate accident of history that Saint Nicholas left no personal writings.
Despite this scarcity of evidence, it seems likely that Nicholas had at least existed. The earliest written reference to St. Nicholas of Myra surfaces about 250 years after the saint’s probable death, in an account of another man named Nicholas. St. Nicholas of Sion had apparently adopted Nicholas’s name as a tribute to the earlier saint. His account notes that there was a martyrium – a small structure built over the site of a saint’s grave or dedicated to their memory – which honoured St. Nicholas of Myra as early as the sixth century. The name and the martyrium in this account both indicate that the cult of St. Nicholas had flourished not long after his death. This is evidence at least that there was a man named Nicholas of Myra who was remembered as an extraordinarily good witness of the faith.
oldest surviving icon of St Nicholas, painted in Constantinople, 10th century. currently stored in the monastery of St Catherine in Sinai.
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Regardless, does anyone know where the image on the left comes from? Is it really St. Nick being portrayed here (despite the original St. Nicholas supposedly coming from Turkey rather than Africa), or some other saint? [/QB]
posted
Doctored by some Afrocentrist or blaccentrist to appear black. Here is the unaltered version:
quote:Originally posted by Tyrannohotep: This was a meme I saw on my Facebook feed today. Personally, if those aren't simply wrinkles on the saint's brow, maybe they could be scarifications?
Regardless, does anyone know where the image on the left comes from? Is it really St. Nick being portrayed here (despite the original St. Nicholas supposedly coming from Turkey rather than Africa), or some other saint?
posted
^ no that is not a match either. The one you posted has thicker crosses, no halo and the eyes are looking to the side.
There are many Russian icons of St Nicholas, some copies of each other with minor variations
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: ^ no that is not a match either. The one you posted has thicker crosses, no halo and the eyes are looking to the side.
There are many Russian icons of St Nicholas, some copies of each other with minor variations
Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
I think the guy did live, though I don't think too many 4th c 'Turks' were blacks. Can't remember if Abyssinia was Xtian then so probably not a Byzantine nationalized Ethiopian. Xtian lit makes a Meroe Kandake's official a convert. Are there historical docs of Sudani Xtians? There were aMazigh Xtians then though, like those 3 popes in my initial post.
http://www.basilicasannicola.it/ Icons of Nicky come in dark skin, amber skin and pale skin. (links) Based on analysis of bones attributed to him, I think he lived. Whether a northern African or a NE Mediterranean man, those bones may hold the answer. OP needs to give us full context of his meme.
posted
I for one have no problem with seeing the lines on St Nicholas as signs of scarification.
Take this image which Lioness describes as a balsamarium. I have no problem associating scarification with her features. The quality of the image is poor, but I wouldn't be surprised to see scarification marks on it if the quality was a lot better.
Take the Madonna of Czechostowa. If it wasn't for the fact that the marks on it extended below her jaw they could be easily tribal marks.
This whole business of some kind of impossibility of negros or Sub-Saharan Africans having a presence in West Asian and Mediterranean history in antiquity simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Just read the article below and checkout the amazing doublespeak!!
quote:Originally posted by Tyrannohotep: This was a meme I saw on my Facebook feed today. Personally, if those aren't simply wrinkles on the saint's brow, maybe they could be scarifications?
Regardless, does anyone know where the image on the left comes from? Is it really St. Nick being portrayed here (despite the original St. Nicholas supposedly coming from Turkey rather than Africa), or some other saint?
1) There was several St. Nicholas. It probably was a title.
2) Turkey didn't exist back then.
3) For accurate sources and descriptions you need to go to Classical Greek and Latin.
I'd like to see the text in the book Lioness has posted.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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I'm trying to figure this out, did St Nicholas have Klingonian ancestry or did the Klingons have some St Nicolasian ancestry? Also were the Klingons Catholic origianlly?
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Nope, dey wuz Eastern Orthodox but Catholic Trek got docced too
Here is Kor from the first Klingon episode 1967. Note the wrinkle forehead type Klingon came later. The writers only found out that Klingons had St Nicholosian ancestry so they added the wrinkles to be more biologically accurate
Dahar Master Kor,above, . He was among the most influential warriors and respected military leaders of the Klingon Empire.
Kor was the last son of the House of Kor and descendant of the Klingon Imperial Family. He also had a son. He was descended from Klingons affected with the augment virus created in 2154, a product of 22nd century Klingon genetic engineering. By the 24th century, he was cosmetically indistinguishable from an average Klingon. (ENT: "Divergence"; DS9: "Blood Oath"; TOS: "Errand of Mercy") .
.
Worf and B’Elanna
B'Elanna was born on the Federation colony Kessik IV to John Torres, a Human father and Miral, a Klingon mother.
.
.
Star Trek Discovery Klingon "True Klingon"
TrekCore excerpted an interview with Discovery writer Ted Sullivan from the magazine SFX... In it, Sullivan explains what the new Klingon Sarcophagus ship is all about. “It’s a 200-year-old ship. This is a group of Klingons who’ve gone back to a puritan way of life. They look very different: they wear armor that’s 200 years old and they don’t have any hair,” Sullivan said.” Their commander runs his Klingon house – the house of T’Kuvma – by the rules of Kahless, the Klingon messiah. And he calls himself the second coming of the Klingon messiah.”
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Lioness this excessive dwelling on Star Trek derails the thread, and frankly this presence of people on Egyptsearch who are either ignorant of African people, or are knowledgeable of Africa but have a problem with Africans being seen in a more advanced light is tiresome. Your are lucky Mike is not here to berate you.
There are two main issues being discussed here:
1. Could the lines on St Nicholas forehead be scarifications, assuming the paintings have not been photoshopped?
2. If they are scarifications is possible they could be related to the scarifications found in Africa, or is that too much of a remote possibility?
The answers to the first one is that given what we have observed in our environment, scarifications are the most logical answer.
The answer to the second is that it is not impossible for people born in Africa, to have migrated and settled in Turkey and carried the practice there, or been scarified and sold in to slavery which seems to be the white disparagist preference. Note the term I prefer to use. Disparagist which is a word I have just invented unless someone else has already beaten me to it, and in this case means white people who like to assert that some achievement or artifact can't or couldn't be related to Bantu and Nilotic Africans because they are not genetically intelligent to accomplish some intellectual achievement nor possess the material resources to create some artifact.
So unless anyone can come up with a better explanation then the markings are scarifications. Of course you can might consider St Nicholas a member of a spacefaring Klingon race who came to earth 2000 years ago, in which case I will throw in this meme for good measure.
As to the second part as to whether Africans from the Soudan could settle in Turkey, well if they are spacefaring aliens wouldn't it be a cinch to fly from Soudan to Turkey? I mean they could go to Africa on their lunch breaks couldn't they.
-------------------- The Habsburg Agenda - Defending Western Christian civilization Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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posted
^^^^ Can you give an example of furrowed brows which rise way up into the forehead in that manner and are diagonal?
Can you give an example of furrowed brows which create a kite shaped pattern with proper straight lines?
Can you give an example of a furrowed brow which creates a single diagonal on top of the head?
The simple thing is that we don't know what the marks meaning only that they are too odd looking to be the lines of a frown.
All we can assume is that the painters copied paintings without knowing what the lines signified and put their own interpretation or tried to rationalize them some how.
What we may know that they may not have known back then is that in Africa such lines are easily explained by scarifications.
Then back to you Lioness - you are the moderator of this forum. Why then is it that when people put in time and effort to bring new info and possibilities to the discussion you can only make silly disparaging responses which don't contribute anything to the debate and are simply a distraction?
If you felt the lines could be explained by frowns why didn't you do so from the very start of the thread rather wait until I presented some examples of scarifications which lend some support to the idea that they could be scarifications?
If you are truly a moderator then get the discussion going properly rather than always coming in with flippant non-sequiturs.
You give the impression of being a person hunched over your computer screen leering and gloating at so labelled Afrocentrics are making themselves look. Apparently you have nothing else to entertain yourself with. Pathetic really.
The same goes for you Black Crystal as I KNOW you can't keep your eyes of this thread.
-------------------- The Habsburg Agenda - Defending Western Christian civilization Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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quote:Originally posted by A Habsburg Agenda: ^^^^ Can you give an example of furrowed brows which rise way up into the forehead in that manner and are diagonal?
Can you give an example of furrowed brows which create a kite shaped pattern with proper straight lines?
the paintings are stylized
quote:Originally posted by A Habsburg Agenda:
If you felt the lines could be explained by frowns why didn't you do so from the very start of the thread rather wait until I presented some examples of scarifications which lend some support to the idea that they could be scarifications?
Tukuler already said it in the second post. After that the thread starter abandoned the topic
quote:Originally posted by A Habsburg Agenda:
Then back to you Lioness - you are the moderator of this forum. Why then is it that when people put in time and effort to bring new info and possibilities to the discussion you can only make silly disparaging responses which don't contribute anything to the debate and are simply a distraction?
what you are saying is false. The topic is dead. I did research on this showed very similar paintings. Nobody is doing proper analysis of this and it's hard to take seriously something with a Klingon in it.
The first thing to note is when did St Nicholas live?
The true story of Santa Claus begins with Nicholas, who was born during the third century in the village of Patara. At the time the area was Greek and is now on the southern coast of Turkey Under the Roman Emperor Diocletian, who ruthlessly persecuted Christians, Bishop Nicholas suffered for his faith, was exiled and imprisoned. The prisons were so full of bishops, priests, and deacons, there was no room for the real criminals—murderers, thieves and robbers. After his release, Nicholas attended the Council of Nicaea in AD 325. He died December 6, AD 343 in Myra and was buried in his cathedral church, where a unique relic, called manna, formed in his grave. This liquid substance, said to have healing powers, fostered the growth of devotion to Nicholas. The anniversary of his death became a day of celebration, St. Nicholas Day, December 6th (December 19 on the Julian Calendar).
He died in 343 the earliest painting in this thread is 10th century. The others 16th century, Novgorod school This means these icons are very far form the time period at which someone may have physically looked at him
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Considering DinkaNuer type cicatrices Do amber and pale Nicky icons have 'em too? What's getting deep is these lines on the cheek below the eyes. If these two sets of lines are African scars search for the ethny with both.
Dark St Nicholas, could one of his parents have been Sudani? How do we conflate a Sudani customary tradition and a 'Byzantine' Eastern Orthodox bishop?
posted
Neither you nor Tukuler made an constructive suggestion in this post. If the OP felt that the drawings could be scarifications, the most sensible thing any thoughtful person would do would be to provide pictures of scarifications for proper comparisons to be made.
All Tukuler did was to say
Afreccentric/Blakcentric poppycock that Greek off-white St Nicholas was a forehead cicatriced African from where ever.
What about the authentic Catholic/Orthodox bishops of African descent?
I sure hope a descendant of Middle Passage survivors, ashamed of Africa, and just wannabe a white European in blackface, didn't put that meme combining two fantasies together.
Meanwhile, Victor, Miltiades, and Gelasius go unsung.
Of no use for esteemless needers to justify their Black Santa.
Do you call this constructive evidence that helps the argument? None of the paintings you Tukuler presented where anywhere near the OPs original photo.
This is the one you yourself presented
There is a clear diagonal right are the top of the forehead where they are no facial muscles to produce a frown. By the way, how does a single diagonal line way up the forward constitute a frown, as it takes a few lines to create a frown.
I mean what is your purpose at all? Instead of going out there to search for scarifications you did nothing of the kind, and yet you are the one claiming to be an expert and authority on African people, especially you and Tukuler. You really don't see how vapid and supercilious you both sound?
If Tukuler was so knowledgeable of Africa why didn't he get images of Africa and lay them side by side and see if that could be discarded?
You and Tukuler have nothing going for you in this debate except your racism and Tukuler's inferiority complex towards the Bantus and Nilotics who always turn out to be smarter than the Islamo/Berber groups he identifies and associates himself.
This must be really painful isn't, much like those European scholars whose inferiority complexes towards Africans lead them to make foolish comments for which they are eventually find out.
You both sound like Zawi Hawass in this debate with Graham Hancock, if it can be called a debate.
So can you lay the original picture Tyrannohotep used side by side with some images of African scarifications so proper comparisons can be made? If it turns out to be a photoshop job that ends his quest.
I think the one you posted provides strong evidence of scarification even it it is restricted to the single diagonal on his forehead, or at the very least an ordinary scar.
If you want to work harder you can lookup for scarifications among Nubians which are no the same as the Nubans I have displayed here, who also like to sport humongous scarifications (they are still Africans after all) if you believe that people who were long cotton robes rather than run around in the birthday suits can also sport scarifications.
-------------------- The Habsburg Agenda - Defending Western Christian civilization Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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posted
Habs, Tyrannohotep is the one who raised the St Nicholas scarification theory so now that you have posted some people who actually have this scarification let's wait to see what he thinks.
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posted
So it was a Christian Orthodox white boy who created this hot mess LMFAO! And here we have again black men adopting white nonsense like Sovereign Citizenship and not knowing the origin of said nonsense.
the man is a white former priest who has a blog Eclectic Orthodoxy. If it was him who created this pairing of St Nicholas and the Klingon is was just done for humor.
Then we have the thread started by a non-black person. He was the one who raised the question could the forehead lies be scarification and could he be African.
The klingon has nothing to do with that theory it just happened to be attached to a poor quality reproduction of some 16th century icon of St Nicholas with said forehead lines
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
@ Hapless Agenda quoting me out of context abusing my name
Guess what genius Some branches of my people are cicatriced
Who but you didn't already know about scarification? Who but you doesn't know the markings aren't arbitrary?
Regardless icon ages, the things to show are • unity/similarlity of dark Nickys • facial differences making Dark Nickys distinct from Amber or Pale Nickys • an ethnic group with the exact forehead and subocular pattern
Another tip Ain't no such thing as Klingons (except the ones around your anus oops Uranus) I suggest Wet Ones for the sake of hygiene.
Now prove how asinine you can be via swift lip comeback else lighten up a little, sheesh.
This is no more than a lil piece of fun for me. A sidetrack that doesn't advance African Studies in the least. Although a hypothesis (sophisticated wild assed guess) could be in the making.
Rah rah for the buffoons who have nothing to say except Dey wuz BLAKK w/o the rest of the story.
Full context recap of my previous posts brimming over with "constructive suggestions"
What about the authentic Catholic/Orthodox bishops of African descent?
I sure hope a descendant of Middle Passage survivors, ashamed of Africa, and just wannabe a white European in blackface, didn't put that meme combining two fantasies together.
quote:Originally posted by Black Crystal: So it was a Christian Orthodox white boy who created this hot mess LMFAO! And here we have again black men adopting white nonsense like Sovereign Citizenship and not knowing the origin of said nonsense.
^^^^ This message was directed at Black Crystal so Lioness please put back what I wrote.
It is tiresome when people make repeated ad hominem without contributing anything to the discussion. If someone is going to make ad hominems they should at least contribute something concrete first.
quote: And here we have again black men adopting white nonsense like Sovereign Citizenship and not knowing the origin of said nonsense.
What is the relevance of quotes like this to the discussion.
You think coming to Egyptsearch to talk sh*t makes you cool.
FWIW the black people you see in these photos are the very moors featured on the crests of your European noble families.
They are the moors who came to Europe to check the spread of the Mohammedan faith, they are not moors captured in the battles against the Saracens. They came to Europe to strengthen Europe against the Turks and the Muslim Moors from North Africa.
The only reason you are not chanting Allahu Akhbar and using terms like Bisimillah is because they saved your ancestors backsides from the Turks.
-------------------- The Habsburg Agenda - Defending Western Christian civilization Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Tyrannohotep: Personally, if those aren't simply wrinkles on the saint's brow, maybe they could be scarifications?
In all sincerity, as much as I'd like to pretend those are scarifications, I suspect they're really wrinkles on his brow to indicate old age. As for his dark skin, that would depend on whether the person here is really St. Nicholas. If it is, I suspect it could be little more discoloration by soot or something. If St. Nicholas ever was a real historical person, I doubt he would have been that dark if he was like most people living in Turkey during his time.
posted
Are you saying that the painting of St. Nicholas is authentic?
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: No,
the man is a white former priest who has a blog Eclectic Orthodoxy. If it was him who created this pairing of St Nicholas and the Klingon is was just done for humor.
Then we have the thread started by a non-black person. He was the one who raised the question could the forehead lies be scarification and could he be African.
The klingon has nothing to do with that theory it just happened to be attached to a poor quality reproduction of some 16th century icon of St Nicholas with said forehead lines
When circumstances have been named to the Romish priests they have endeavored to disguise the fact by pretending that the child had become black by the smoke of the candles; but it was black where th smoke of the candle never came; and besides how came the candles not to blacken the white teeth and the shirt, and how came they to redden the lips?
The Mother is, the author believes, always black when the child is. Their real blackness is not to be questioned for a moment.
As regards the statement that the color of the Black Virgins is due to smoke of burning candles, it may be said further that this does not account for the Negroid faces of some of these Virgins, and also for those paintings in which the Madonna is shown as black and Negroid.
The Cardiff Museum has one such painting and there is also one in the Chateau of Azay-le-Rideau. At Sales (Cantal) a tapestry shows the figures of the Holy Family black, save that of the Infant Jesus. On a church window at L'Oise, a Virgin with a black face is holding a rose colored Christ.
posted
Virgin (Theotokos) and Child between Saints Theodore and George, sixth or early seventh century, encaustic on wood, 2' 3" x 1' 7 3/8" (St. Catherine's Monastery, Sinai, Egypt)
The oldest Byzantine icon of Mary, c. 600, encaustic, at Saint Catherine's Monastery, Sinai retains much of Greek realist style.
The icon shows the Virgin and Child flanked by two soldier saints, St. Theodore to the left and St. George at the right. Above these are two angels who gaze upward to the hand of God, from which light emanates, falling on the Virgin.
quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: Hahaha Soot that left the white of the eyes and the white collars untinged! Rotflmbao
That's the same &#*@ European ethnocentrists say about the Black Madonna s. [Img research by AHA]
The Black Madonna of Czestochowa (above) Poland’s Most Revered Icon
The Black Madonna of Czestochowa Poland’s Most Revered Icon
The painting itself has more mystery than history. Legend says St. Luke painted the image on the table top in the home of the Holy Family 2,000 years ago. The story is that the Emperor Constantine took it from Jerusalem to Constantinople (now Istanbul). Six hundred years later, the Russian Prince Lev was given the painting by a Turkish dignitary as a reward for his military triumphs, but it was seized during a war with the Poles and brought to Czestochowa in 1384..
Art scholars and historians disagree with the legend. They say the original painting was a Byzantine icon created around the Sixth or Ninth Century. They agree Prince Ladislaus of Opole brought it to the monastery in the 14th Century. But, the historians say, the painting now on display is not the Byzantine original.
In 1430, robbers ransacked the church. They broke the wooden boards that backed the painting and slashed the canvas. The Virgin’s face and neck were ripped
Attempts to repair the painting failed, blurring the original. About three years later, the image was wiped from the canvas and a similar image painted in its place.
__________________________________
What ethnicity do you think was intended to be depicted in this Madonna of Czestochowa?
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posted
None of the black Madonna look racially black. Hell, if people are relying on skin color, the only ones who could racially claim the Black Madonna are Hindus/Indo-Europeans. I laugh at blacks who love claiming people with dark skin, all the while ignoring the obvious straight, non-African, hair and unrelated African facial features. Smdh. There is a video from a black female vlogger who goes into what is considered "black." She is spot on with her assessment. The thrust of her argument is ---we all know what "Black" is when we see it.
quote:Originally posted by Tyrannohotep: Personally, if those aren't simply wrinkles on the saint's brow, maybe they could be scarifications?
In all sincerity, as much as I'd like to pretend those are scarifications, I suspect they're really wrinkles on his brow to indicate old age. As for his dark skin, that would depend on whether the person here is really St. Nicholas. If it is, I suspect it could be little more discoloration by soot or something. If St. Nicholas ever was a real historical person, I doubt he would have been that dark if he was like most people living in Turkey during his time.
@Tyrannohotep Do I have to lay into you as well?
You brought up the question of whether those patterns could be scarifications. Now if I may ask you a simple quesion - Can you go out there and find a picture of any person living or dead whose wrinkles match the characteristic patterns on the image you displayed?
Do that first before you say I suspect they're really wrinkles on his brow to indicate old age. You see we are not interested in what you suspect, we are interested in the evidence you can provide to substantiate those suspicions, just as a detective has to provide the observations that underpin their suspicions.
I went out there to provide scarifications whose angles are similar to the steep angles of the wrinkles on the forehead of St Nicholas. Please do us a favour and locate us photographs of people whose wrinkles match those of St Nicholas displayed displayed above the African woman. With a world population of over 7 billion today, surely there have to a few people whose wrinkles rise at that steep angle.
There also have to be people whose wrinkle patterns form a diagonal square above their eyebrows and form upward pointing ridges as in your original image, assuming it is not a photoshop job.
If you can't provide examples, then don't dismiss the alternative explanations provided.
Don't be a Zawi Hawass.
-------------------- The Habsburg Agenda - Defending Western Christian civilization Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Tukuler: @ Hapless Agenda quoting me out of context abusing my name
Guess what genius Some branches of my people are cicatriced
Who but you didn't already know about scarification? Who but you doesn't know the markings aren't arbitrary? <snipped>
If some branches of your people are cicatriced, do us a favour and show us a few photos of your cicatriced people. At least we will know that you have pride in the culture of your people, and a 100 years from now if this forum exists, people will say here is a photo of Tukuler's people as they lived in the 1900s and the 2000s.
-------------------- The Habsburg Agenda - Defending Western Christian civilization Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
??? Poor little mixed up confused young man thinks schoolyard taunting can manipulate me into doing what a simple a polite request would've attained SMH
@ large Some presume copies or rededicated Isis (Mary) and Horus (Jesus). Virgin and Child are of the artists' imagined or local Judaeans (Jews). Legend has it St Luke crafted the 1st and black Madonna and Baby God the Son icon. The phenotype should be a NE Afr one, including Levant. The Roman idea of Judaean ancestry has been posted like tera times here.
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,: the meme with the Klingon seems to originate here November 23rd 2016, tweet - unless someone can find an earlier one
"The great debate among patristic scholars: Was St Nicholas a Klingon?"
so if he created this meme he might have the icon source if one were to contact him
I've done some further research and if the above Aidan Kimel created the meme with the Klingon he may not know it's attribution and may have gotten the St Nicholas icon from Medievalpoc's People of Color in European Art History site
Unfortunately the references at the bottom of the page refer to other individual illustrations on the page not the above montage posted 5 years ago
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Black Crystal: None of the black Madonna look racially black. Hell, if people are relying on skin color, the only ones who could racially claim the Black Madonna are Hindus/Indo-Europeans. I laugh at blacks who love claiming people with dark skin, all the while ignoring the obvious straight, non-African, hair and unrelated African facial features. Smdh. There is a video from a black female vlogger who goes into what is considered "black." She is spot on with her assessment. The thrust of her argument is ---we all know what "Black" is when we see it.
Lioness - this is the kind of behaviour I have mentioned earlier. Black Crystal repeatedly makes meaningless comments without presenting any information relevant to the comment. And so does the make believe new member SaxonQueen who claims to be Celtic Warrioress. If the same people keep making the same meaningless and irrelevant interjections without any relevant information or reasoning to substantiate their claims why don't you just ban them?
Consider this kind of nonsense:
quote:Originally posted by Black Crystal: Smdh. There is a video from a black female vlogger who goes into what is considered "black." She is spot on with her assessment. The thrust of her argument is ---we all know what "Black" is when we see it.
Who is this black female vlogger? Where is the link to the relevant video?
Not all of us have the time to read such meaningless posts, let alone take the time to respond to them. I am not Mike who had the time and inclination to challenge and respond to this nonsense and neither are many of the other followers of this forum.
It is annoying and it takes up bandwidth and it is a waste of time. You see that a thread you are following has been updated, and when you click on it all you see is nonsensical comments by Black Crystal and other time wasters. If the forum software has the ability to display the last responder to a thread then enable it so users don't have to follow up a thread only to be presented with another irrelevant comment from some idioit about some flaws of Blacks, or Africans.
You are actually degrading the quality of this forum if you allow this silly behaviour to continue. Not everyone has time for this.
-------------------- The Habsburg Agenda - Defending Western Christian civilization Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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posted
The Sicilian by Mario Puzo is a continuation of the The Godfather novel which features Michael's stay in Sicily and includes a fictionalized version of some actual events in Sicily and some sociological information.
One of the items mentioned is the Black Madonna, and a statue of her given to Michael as a gift. What is noted is that the Madonna was Negroid, and it was mentioned in another part of the book, or another book in the series that it was one of the genuine ones unlike the usual ones some monastery made for the general public, tourists or whoever.
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For those with interested in the mystical aspects of the Black Madonna, rather than her putative racial origins, this is a link to some thoughts on one of her variations, Our Lady of Guadalupe at Tepeyac, Mexico City, and some background info about her predecessor at Extremadura in Spain
WARNING: This is to those members and viewers who have a disparaging and disrespectful attitude to matters spiritual and matters African. You are warned not to follow the links. Of course, knowing your dispositions this warning will only lead you to follow them.
Whatever the outcome, you cannot say you were not warned.
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