quote:Originally posted by beyoku: You are correct. There IS NO DIFFERENCE Between European and African R-M269 in THAT specific article. They have the same Haplotype because they were recently transmitted from Europeans to Africans. That's the point. If they were African specific they would be older and have a different STR/SNP profile similar to what we find with African VR-V88 CLOWN! Even your screenshot above is WRONG. 53% of Equatorial Guinea doesn't carry R-M269. They have the figures in the data:
quote:Equatorial Guinea, a Central-West African country located near the region in which the highest frequencies of the R1b1 haplogroup in Africa have been found to date. In our sample, the large majority (78.6%) of the sequences belong to subclades in haplogroup E, which are the most frequent in Bantu groups. However, the frequency of the R1b1 haplogroup in our sample (17.0%) was higher than that previously observed for the majority of the African continent
Your ignorance and laziness have you making a chart that is factually inaccurate and misleading. It doesn't matter that he didnt get that published. He goes in point after point showing you were you are wrong. You are WRONG. Stop repeating incorrect information.
de Montellano,could never understand why his paper was never published in a journal. It was never published because a change in the nomenclature, means that the name changed for the haplogroup, but everything else remained the same. As a result, I was not wrong in identifying M1 in India, what happened was that today M1 is called M3.
LOL. I am only wrong in your mind. If I am so wrong, I look forward to seeing your paper disconfirming my work in a journal. Please let us know when your paper is published.
When you write a research article disputing my research, you have to do more than quote/cite an authority you have to back up your research with citations.
.
You make feeble statements like if African M269 was oldest it would be different from European M269, yet no one I have read has noted that 7000 year old Iberian V88, is different from V88 in Africa today it is just identified as V88.
V88 in 7000 year old Iberians has a different STR profile than V88 in modern Sub Saharan Africans. Modern Sub Saharan Africans also have different Subclades of V88.
As to M1....you are WRONG and continued to site an outdated paper to push and incorrect bogus narrative.
quote: The standard reference source for the approved nomenclature for mtDNA haplogroups is www.phylotree.org which is based on the Standard Cambridge Sequence. An easier source to use is http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/m4_genbank_sequences.htm with the proper haplogroup name inserted. When we do this for M1 and M3 we get (in the control region):
M1 16129 16189 16249 16311 M3 16126
Thus, it is absolutely clear that, at least since the year 2000, mutation at 16126 has designated haplogroup M3 and mutation at 16129 designates haplogroup M1. Winters (2010b; 2012) continues to cite Kivisild’s 1999b paper as his ”evidence” that the M1 haplotype is exists in India . Kivisild personally pointed out Winters’ error in reply to a comment by Winters (2007):
Stop promoting white supremacy.
The Dravidians, like the Chola tribe originated in Africa. Kivisild (1999) admits that Dravidians carry M1, which is an African haplogroup.
Dr. Srinivasan has studied this ancient Literature and provide us keen insight into ancient Nile Valley and the Levant history. Many people will be surprised after reading her major books: Desi, Crete to Egypt: Missing links of the Rig Veda, and Near Eastern Deities in the rig Veda ,to learn that the Rig Veda, Ramayana and other text provide us information on ancient Nubia, and Dravidians in the Nile Valley.
In Indian History an important Dravidian speaking population were the Chola. The Chola founded a large Empire in South India. The ancient Indians recorded their history and elements of their civilization in text called Puranas and Pali. Buddhists preserved their traditions in the Pāli language. The Puranas are Hindu text.
.
. The Purana and Pali text make it clear the Chola were Kushites from Africa. The Dravidians lived in ancient Africa. It appears that the Tamil belonged to the Nhsj (Nehesy) tribes and, the Telugu and Kannada belonged to the Thnw (Tehenu) tribe. These people were called ḫЗš (Kushites) or ḫЗšt (Khasut) by the ancient Egyptians. ( Khasut may also refer to “nation” or country/region of Kush.)
First mention of ḫЗšt=Kush/ Khasut, goes back to Narmer the first ruler of Egypt. Narmer was one the first ruler to expand the Kushites into the Levant and Anatolia. Narmer is attested in Egypt and Canaan. Many serekhs of Narmer have been found Tel Erani, Arad, 'En Besor, Halif Terrace/Nahal Tillah .
We know that Narmer was probably a Kushite because of a Clay bulla (reg. no. G-67.95, Locus 102, B. 1308) from Nahal Tillah (Levy,1997). The inscriptions on the Clay bulla can be read as ḫЗts.t Kush, ḫ3s.tj "he who belongs to Kush" or Kushite.
The Rig Veda (RV) provides considerable information on the Kushites of Nubia and Anatolia. The Dravidian speakers belonged to the Kushite Confederation. The term Kushite was a generic term for the tribes that belonged to the Confederation.
Dr.Srinivasan notes that Nile Valley Kush was called Kušadvipa or Kush in the Puranas and Kuš-Nila in Pali texts. The Puranas and Pali are the names given to ancient Vedic/Indian text.
In the Puranas Kuša was southern Nubia or upper Kush. In the Purana northern Nubia or lower Kush was called Krouńcha .
In addition,in Cameroon we find carriers of R1a. In addition to carriers of R1a in Cameroon; the Dravidian languages are still spoken today in Cameroon see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWyAYGlFZjkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWyAYGlFZjk Gonzalez (2007) admits that M1 was found in India and cites Kivisild et al (1999)( and Quintana-Murci (2004). Ana Gonzalez (2007) wrote “The central HVSI haplotype (16129–16189–16223–16249–16311) has been found only once in northwestern India [27]. Another possible Indian M1 candidate is the derived sequence: 16086–16129–16223–16249–16259–16311 [28]”.
Kivisild et al (1999), admits that Dravidians carry M1, which is an African haplogroup. This article is just as relevant today as it was in 1999. People carry a particular gene do not just disappear.
The Eastern African hg M1, HVS-I signature motif is 16,129, 16,189, 16,223, 16,249, and 16,311. In the Kivisild et al figure below we see the same motif. The mutations are shown less 16,000.
Here you can clearly see:mutations 129,189, 223 and 311, in Indian M1, in Figure 3, of Kivisild et al, 1999. This article is just as relevant today as it was in 1999. People carry a particular gene do not just disappear.
The Eastern African hg M1, HVS-I signature motif is 16,129, 16,189, 16,223, 16,249, and 16,311. In the Kivisild et al figure below we see the same motif. The mutations are shown less 16,000.
Here you can clearly see: mutations 129,189, 223 and 311, in Indian M1, in Figure 3, of Kivisild et al, 1999.
How could haplogroup M1 change to M3, when Kivisild presents both haplohroups in Figure 3.
In the Kivisild et al 1999 study of Indian mtDNA around 15% carried haplogroup M1. See:
In Table 4, Kivisild et al, 1999, we see the frequency of M1 in India.There are 217 million Dravidian speakers in India, if we compare the frequency of M1 carriers to the Dravidian speaking community around 32 million people carry M1.
The frequency of 15% of the Dravidians carrying M1 shows the presence of M1 in India. As a result, your arguments are false and invalid. In summary, Researchers maintain that the Eastern African HVS-I signature motifs are 16,129, 16,189, 16,249, and 16,311. This motiff is found in Indian M1, so it can not be changed into M3, because M3 already existed in 1999, when Kivisild resolved indian M clades.
The presence of one transition, 126, in Indian M1, does not deny its existence as M1, since it is the only M haplogroup outside of Africa that carries the entire M1 motif. Luckily, we have the original paper that proves that M1 in India exist.
This bs of claiming Indian M1 in 1999, is today M3, when M3 was outlined in the 1999 article, indicate a case of Bait-and-switch, by racists Hindutva geneticists. The M1=M3 promotion, makes it clear Phylotree- is unreliable and based on Euroocentrism and white supremacy. Phylotree appears to be regulating nomenclature to maintain the status quo and white Supremacy. Phylotree is just trying to maintain the myth that Africans and Dravidians are not related, A myth I have destroyed by 1) my papers on M1, 2) the absence of parallel mutation/adaptation as a explanation for the M haplogroups in India, and 3) shared African and Tribal Dravidian HLA-A and HLA-B.
In summary, Gonzalez (2007) , Kivisild et al (1999) and Quintana-Murci (2004) admits that M1 was found in India . If Africans and Dravidians share 9bp,YAP, y-chromosome H, HLA-A and HLA-B, it is only natural that they might carry hg M1. The decision to change the classification of M1 in India, given the M1 transitions in the control region of Indian M1, makes it clear the decision to rename Indian M1, was indeed a conspiracy .
If researchers really want to know the genetic history of African people they will have to go back and look at the original genetic literature base and see what haplogroups original classified as African, have now been assigned to non-Africans, like V88.
References:
González, A. M., Larruga, J. M., Abu-Amero, K. K., Shi, Y., Pestano, J., & Cabrera, V. M. (2007). Mitochondrial lineage M1 traces an early human backflow to Africa. BMC genomics, 8, 223. https://doi.org/10.1186/1471-2164-8-223
Quintana-Murci L, Chaix R, Wells RS, Behar DM, Sayar H, Scozzari R, Rengo C, Al-Zahery N, Semino O, Santachiara-Benerecetti AS, Coppa A, Ayub Q, Mohyuddin A, Tyler-Smith C, Qasim Mehdi S, Torroni A, McElreavey K. Where West meets East: The complex mtDNA landscape of the Southwest and Central Asian corridor. Am J Hum Genet. 2004;74:827–845. doi: 10.1086/383236. [PMC free article] [PubMed] [Cross Ref]
Kivisild T, Kaldma K, Metspalu M, Parik J, Papiha SS, Villems R. The place of the Indian mitochondrial DNA variants in the global network of maternal lineages and the peopling of the Old World. In: Deka R, Papiha SS, editor. Genomic diversity. New York: Kluwer/Academic/Plenum Publishers; 1999. pp. 135–152.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
I am not the only one who said hg M1 is found in India. Gonzalez (2007) , Kivisild et al (1999) and Quintana-Murci (2004) admits that M1 was found in India . If Africans and Dravidians share 9bp,YAP, y-chromosome H, HLA-A and HLA-B, it is only natural that they might carry hg M1. The decision to change the classification of M1 in India, is indeed a conspiracy .
If researchers really want to know the genetic history of African people they will have to go back and look at the original genetic literature base and see what haplogroups original classified as African, have now been assigned to non-Africans, like V88.
References:
González, A. M., Larruga, J. M., Abu-Amero, K. K., Shi, Y., Pestano, J., & Cabrera, V. M. (2007). Mitochondrial lineage M1 traces an early human backflow to Africa. BMC genomics, 8, 223. https://doi.org/10.1186/1471-2164-8-223
Quintana-Murci L, Chaix R, Wells RS, Behar DM, Sayar H, Scozzari R, Rengo C, Al-Zahery N, Semino O, Santachiara-Benerecetti AS, Coppa A, Ayub Q, Mohyuddin A, Tyler-Smith C, Qasim Mehdi S, Torroni A, McElreavey K. Where West meets East: The complex mtDNA landscape of the Southwest and Central Asian corridor. Am J Hum Genet. 2004;74:827–845. doi: 10.1086/383236. [PMC free article] [PubMed] [Cross Ref]
Kivisild T, Kaldma K, Metspalu M, Parik J, Papiha SS, Villems R. The place of the Indian mitochondrial DNA variants in the global network of maternal lineages and the peopling of the Old World. In: Deka R, Papiha SS, editor. Genomic diversity. New York: Kluwer/Academic/Plenum Publishers; 1999. pp. 135–152.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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3) Are you suggesting that these people in the Villabruna cluster related to the Dravidians?
quote:“Analysis of genes carried by Ice Age Europeans shows, among other things, that they had dark complexions and brown eyes. Only after 14,000 years ago did blue eyes begin to spread, and pale skin only appeared across much of the continent after 7,000 years ago - borne by early farmers from the Near East.”
“The Villabruna cluster: From about 14,000 years ago, the gene pools of Europe and the Middle East draw closer together - perhaps reflecting an expansion of people from the south-east. This genetic cluster is named after a male hunter from Villabruna, Italy, who had dark skin and blue eyes”
posted
Clyde Winters and Beyoku. Can either of you, or both, explain what is meant by this part in Cruciani's paper?
quote:
‘‘Out of Africa’’ haplogroups. All Y-clades that are not exclusively African belong to the macro-haplogroup CT, which is defined by mutations M168, M294 and P9.1 [14,31] and is subdivided into two major clades, DE and CF [1,14]. In a recent study [16], sequencing of two chromosomes belonging to haplogroups C and R, led to the identification of 25 new mutations, eleven of which were in the C-chromosome and seven in the R-chromosome. Here, the seven mutations which were found to be shared by chromosomes of haplogroups C and R [16], were also found to be present in one DE sample (sample 33 in Table S1), and positioned at the root of macro-haplogroup CT (Figure 1 and Figure S1).
[...]
Three of the seven R-specific mutations (V45, V69 and V88) were previously mapped within haplogroup R [34], whereas the remaining four mutations have been here positioned at the root of haplogroups F (V186 and V205), K (V104) and P (V231) (Figure S1) through the analysis of 12 haplogroup F samples (samples 40–51, in Table S1).
[...]
Figure S1 Structure of the macro-haplogroup CT. For details on mutations see legend to Figure 1. Dashed lines indicate putative branchings (no positive control available). The position of V248 (haplogroup C2) and V87 (haplogroup C3) compared to mutations that define internal branches was not determined. Note that mutations V45, V69 and V88 have been previously mapped (Cruciani et al. 2010; Eur J Hum Genet 18:800–807).
(TIF) Haplogroup affiliation for 51 Y chromosomes Table S1 analyzed in this study. (XLS)
(Fulvio Cruciani et al., Molecular Dissection of the Basal Clades in the Human Y Chromosome Phylogenetic Tree)
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by beyoku: You are correct. There IS NO DIFFERENCE Between European and African R-M269 in THAT specific article. They have the same Haplotype because they were recently transmitted from Europeans to Africans. That's the point. If they were African specific they would be older and have a different STR/SNP profile similar to what we find with African VR-V88 CLOWN! Even your screenshot above is WRONG. 53% of Equatorial Guinea doesn't carry R-M269. They have the figures in the data:
quote:Equatorial Guinea, a Central-West African country located near the region in which the highest frequencies of the R1b1 haplogroup in Africa have been found to date. In our sample, the large majority (78.6%) of the sequences belong to subclades in haplogroup E, which are the most frequent in Bantu groups. However, the frequency of the R1b1 haplogroup in our sample (17.0%) was higher than that previously observed for the majority of the African continent
Your ignorance and laziness have you making a chart that is factually inaccurate and misleading. It doesn't matter that he didnt get that published. He goes in point after point showing you were you are wrong. You are WRONG. Stop repeating incorrect information.
de Montellano,could never understand why his paper was never published in a journal. It was never published because a change in the nomenclature, means that the name changed for the haplogroup, but everything else remained the same. As a result, I was not wrong in identifying M1 in India, what happened was that today M1 is called M3.
LOL. I am only wrong in your mind. If I am so wrong, I look forward to seeing your paper disconfirming my work in a journal. Please let us know when your paper is published.
When you write a research article disputing my research, you have to do more than quote/cite an authority you have to back up your research with citations.
.
You make feeble statements like if African M269 was oldest it would be different from European M269, yet no one I have read has noted that 7000 year old Iberian V88, is different from V88 in Africa today it is just identified as V88.
V88 in 7000 year old Iberians has a different STR profile than V88 in modern Sub Saharan Africans. Modern Sub Saharan Africans also have different Subclades of V88.
As to M1....you are WRONG and continued to site an outdated paper to push and incorrect bogus narrative.
quote: The standard reference source for the approved nomenclature for mtDNA haplogroups is www.phylotree.org which is based on the Standard Cambridge Sequence. An easier source to use is http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/m4_genbank_sequences.htm with the proper haplogroup name inserted. When we do this for M1 and M3 we get (in the control region):
M1 16129 16189 16249 16311 M3 16126
Thus, it is absolutely clear that, at least since the year 2000, mutation at 16126 has designated haplogroup M3 and mutation at 16129 designates haplogroup M1. Winters (2010b; 2012) continues to cite Kivisild’s 1999b paper as his ”evidence” that the M1 haplotype is exists in India . Kivisild personally pointed out Winters’ error in reply to a comment by Winters (2007):
LOL. Stop sounding stupid. Kivisild's paper was first cited by González, A. M., Larruga, J. M., Abu-Amero, K. K., Shi, Y., Pestano, J., & Cabrera, V. M. (2007). Mitochondrial lineage M1 traces an early human backflow to Africa. BMC genomics, 8, 223. https://doi.org/10.1186/1471-2164-8-223 . Do you expect me to believe that when Gonzalez et al, wrote their paper they did not base their interpretation of M1 in India on the Standard Cambridge Sequence.
You claim that India M1 was changed by 2000, but we see that in reality geneticists continued to call Indian M1, M1, as late as 2007 as noted in the Gonzalez et al article.
Given this data,Indian M1, was still considered to be M1 in 2007. The date of a paper does not change the identity of a haplogroup. This is why Indian M1, is African M1.
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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3) Are you suggesting that these people in the Villabruna cluster related to the Dravidians?
quote:“Analysis of genes carried by Ice Age Europeans shows, among other things, that they had dark complexions and brown eyes. Only after 14,000 years ago did blue eyes begin to spread, and pale skin only appeared across much of the continent after 7,000 years ago - borne by early farmers from the Near East.”
“The Villabruna cluster: From about 14,000 years ago, the gene pools of Europe and the Middle East draw closer together - perhaps reflecting an expansion of people from the south-east. This genetic cluster is named after a male hunter from Villabruna, Italy, who had dark skin and blue eyes”
"1) What part of the Dravidian culture is still reminiscent of KMT?"
This includes the god Amon > Amma, cognition of Egyptian and Dravidian languages (e.g., Telugu and Tamil) languages
2) What part of the Dravidian language family relates to Cameroon?
There has not been "A Bayesian phylogenetic study of the Dravidian language family", Bayesian statistic only prove the beliefs already held by the Researcher. Linguists use comparative linguistics to show relationship.
3) Are you suggesting that these people in the Villabruna cluster related to the Dravidians?
No. The archaeology illustrates that culture and artifacts associated with Villabruna came from Africa. .
-------------------- C. A. Winters Posts: 13012 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jan 2006
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Tukuler
multidisciplinary Black Scholar
Member # 19944
posted
Interesting video,but have Europeans done anything specific for the mulattoes? Because the issues we have will always be about race and if our educated Black people are being duped or are made to see the world from a white perspective intentionally or unintentionally, than I would truly the know the issue we have is one of genocide where misinformation and underdevelopment coupled with active participation by Black folks is designed to eliminate the race.
Posts: 1123 | From: New York | Registered: Feb 2016
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It's complicated. Are these trully Amerindians, or $5,-?
quote:Originally posted by Thereal: Interesting video,but have Europeans done anything specific for the mulattoes? Because the issues we have will always be about race and if our educated Black people are being duped or are made to see the world from a white perspective internally or unintentionally, than I would truly the know the issue we have is one of genocide where misinformation and underdevelopment coupled with active participation by Black folks is designed to eliminate the race.
"… but have Europeans done anything specific for the mulattoes?"
From my understanding HBCU were found specifically for mulattoes.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
I recall hearing most HBCUs were designed for mulattoes,but I'm referring to the treatment African mulattoes experience in comparison to other European derived mixed race people. From the stuff I'm seeing,I don't believe overall African mulattoes have gotten money or investment like other types of mulattoes.
Posts: 1123 | From: New York | Registered: Feb 2016
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quote:Originally posted by Thereal: I recall hearing most HBCUs were designed for mulattoes,but I'm referring to the treatment African mulattoes experience in comparison to other European derived mixed race people. From the stuff I'm seeing,I don't believe overall African mulattoes have gotten money or investment like other types of mulattoes.
Oh, I misunderstood. In fact African mulattoes became the buffer class in enslaving the Africans.
Severine Brock's first language was Ga, yet it was not surprising when, in 1842, she married Edward Carstensen. He was the last governor of Christiansborg, the fort that, in the eighteenth century, had been the center of Danish slave trading in West Africa. She was the descendant of Ga-speaking women who had married Danish merchants and traders. Their marriage would have been familiar to Gold Coast traders going back nearly 150 years. In Daughters of the Trade, Pernille Ipsen follows five generations of marriages between African women and Danish men, revealing how interracial marriage created a Euro-African hybrid culture specifically adapted to the Atlantic slave trade.
Although interracial marriage was prohibited in European colonies throughout the Atlantic world, in Gold Coast slave-trading towns it became a recognized and respected custom. Cassare, or "keeping house," gave European men the support of African women and their kin, which was essential for their survival and success, while African families made alliances with European traders and secured the legitimacy of their offspring by making the unions official.
For many years, Euro-African families lived in close proximity to the violence of the slave trade. Sheltered by their Danish names and connections, they grew wealthy and influential. But their powerful position on the Gold Coast did not extend to the broader Atlantic world, where the link between blackness and slavery grew stronger, and where Euro-African descent did not guarantee privilege. By the time Severine Brock married Edward Carstensen, their world had changed. Daughters of the Trade uncovers the vital role interracial marriage played in the coastal slave trade, the production of racial difference, and the increasing stratification of the early modern Atlantic world.
quote: Pernille Ipsen’s Daughters of the Trade: Atlantic Slavers and Interracial Marriage on the Gold Coast addresses the making of a mixed-race community in the Gold Coast during the period of the Atlantic slave trade, and the significance of this community for our understandings of the conduct of the slave trade and transformations in racial thought in the Atlantic world. The book focuses on the Ga stronghold of Osu and the adjoining Danish fort of Christiansborg, which Denmark took over from Sweden in the mid-seventeenth century. From the beginning, Danish traders who were strangers to the region would form households or cassare with women from prominent Ga families as a strategy for improving their survival rates on the coast and their success rates in the Atlantic trade. The unions and households that were formed by cassare were initially organized in Ga fashion...
quote: Ga-Adangbe tribe is one of the ethnic groups whose culture is most prosperous and vibrant. The Ga-Dangbe is also known as Ga-Dangme, GaDangme, Ga-Adampa, Ga-Adangme, Ga-Danmeli, Ga-Adampe, Ga-Adangbe, Ga-Adanme, and Ga-Ada.
The Ga and Adangme people are usually grouped as part of the Ga-Dangme ethnolinguistic groups of Ghana, Benin, and Togo. They mainly live in Greater Accra Regions. The name Accra was traditionally derived from the Ga kingdom of Nkran. Dangme is the language that is most used in the Greater Accra Plains. On the other hand, Ga has occupied the town areas around Tema and Accra.
[…]
Where do the Ga-Adangbe come from?
The Ga-Adangbe came from a city in Egypt called Goshen. The group stayed there for some years, before deciding to leave the city during 672-525 B.C. During that journey, they crossed Ethiopia and then moved to Nigeria. They later migrated to West Africa and eventually stopped in Ghana, which became their permanent home. Read more:
quote:The Ga-Dangbe, Gă-Daŋbɛ, Ga-Dangme, or GaDangme are an ethnic group in Ghana and Togo. The Ga and Dangbe people are grouped respectively as part of the Ga–Dangme ethnolinguistic group.[2][3] The Ga-Dangmes are one ethnic group that lives primarily in the Greater Accra of Ghana. Ethnic Ga family names (surnames) such as Oblitey, Lartey, Nortey, Aryee, Poku, Lamptey, Nartey,Narteh, Narh, Dugbatey, Teye, Matey, Addo,Siaw , Dangma , Lomotey,Tetteh,Ankrah, Tetteyfio, Laryea, Ayitey, Okai, Bortey, Quaye, Quaynor, Ashong, Kotei, Sowah, Odoi, Ablor, Adjetey, Doddoo, Darku and Quartey.
Under their great leader King Ayi Kushi (Cush) (1483-1519) they were led from the east in several states before reaching their destination in Accra. Oral traditions state the Ga came from the region of Lake Chad and reached their destination in the 16th century.[4] It is also believed that by the 17th century they traveled down the River Niger and crossed the Volta to reach present day Ghana.[5] This leader is the Moses of the Ga-Dangme people, with his seven puritan laws he gave them and that has formed the basis and philosophy of the state, making the state a friendly state recognised by all in respect to making Greater Accra Region the capital of the then Gold Coast in 1877.[6]
The Ga people were organized into six independent towns (Accra (Ga Mashie), Osu, La, Teshie, Nungua, and Tema). Each town had a stool, which served as the central object of Ga ritual and war magic. Accra became the most prominent Ga-Dangme towns and is now the heartbeat and capital of Ghana.[7] The Ga people were originally farmers, but today fishing and trading in imported goods are the principal occupations. Trading is generally in the hands of women, and a husband has no control over his wife's money. Succession to most offices held by women and inheritance of women's property are by matrilineal descent. Inheritance of other property and succession to male-held public offices are by patrilineal descent. Men of the lineage live together in a men's compound, while women, even after marriage, live with their mothers and children in a women's compound. Each Ga town has a number of different cults and many gods, and there are a number of annual town festivals.[7]
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Here are answers to your questions:
"1) What part of the Dravidian culture is still reminiscent of KMT?"
This includes the god Amon > Amma, cognition of Egyptian and Dravidian languages (e.g., Telugu and Tamil) languages
2) What part of the Dravidian language family relates to Cameroon?
There has not been "A Bayesian phylogenetic study of the Dravidian language family", Bayesian statistic only prove the beliefs already held by the Researcher. Linguists use comparative linguistics to show relationship.
3) Are you suggesting that these people in the Villabruna cluster related to the Dravidians?
No. The archaeology illustrates that culture and artifacts associated with Villabruna came from Africa.
Not to pick your brain, but when you said that you are part African and part American Indian (Amerindian), what part of Africa are you referring at?
And where would you put the Dravidian language? In the Afroasiatic or PIE phylum? And how does the Dravidian language relate to other languages in East Asia vs those in Northeast and Central Africa. Is there as lingua franca with Dravidian people and Dravidian language? If so, what methodology can be applied?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Here are answers to your questions:
"1) What part of the Dravidian culture is still reminiscent of KMT?"
This includes the god Amon > Amma, cognition of Egyptian and Dravidian languages (e.g., Telugu and Tamil) languages
2) What part of the Dravidian language family relates to Cameroon?
There has not been "A Bayesian phylogenetic study of the Dravidian language family", Bayesian statistic only prove the beliefs already held by the Researcher. Linguists use comparative linguistics to show relationship.
3) Are you suggesting that these people in the Villabruna cluster related to the Dravidians?
No. The archaeology illustrates that culture and artifacts associated with Villabruna came from Africa.
Not to pick your brain, but when you said that you are part African and part American Indian (Amerindian), what part of Africa are you referring at?
And where would you put the Dravidian language? In the Afroasiatic or PIE phylum? And how does the Dravidian language relate to other languages in East Asia vs those in Northeast and Central Africa. Is there as lingua franca with Dravidian people and Dravidian language? If so, what methodology can be applied?
Like most foundational Black Americans I don't know what part of Africa my ancestors came from. What I do know is my father's great-great grandfather was taken to Mississippi by the Winters family.
Dravidian belongs to the Niger-Congo Super Family:
And where would you put the Dravidian language? In the Afroasiatic or PIE phylum? And how does the Dravidian language relate to other languages in East Asia vs those in Northeast and Central Africa. Is there as lingua franca with Dravidian people and Dravidian language? If so, what methodology can be applied? [/QB]
Dravidian is part of the CWMUS African branch of Afroasiatic
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And where would you put the Dravidian language? In the Afroasiatic or PIE phylum? And how does the Dravidian language relate to other languages in East Asia vs those in Northeast and Central Africa. Is there as lingua franca with Dravidian people and Dravidian language? If so, what methodology can be applied?
Dravidian is part of the CWMUS African branch of Afroasiatic
Excuse me, can you elaborate? What does the abbreviation CWMUS, African branch of Afroasiatic mean?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Like most foundational Black Americans I don't know what part of Africa my ancestors came from. What I do know is my father's great-great grandfather was taken to Mississippi by the Winters family.
Dravidian belongs to the Niger-Congo Super Family:
The Dravidian language is the substratum language of Sanskrit and Tocharian/Kushana.
I see. Have you ever attempted an autosomal genetic test to trace back your lineage? I have at "My Heritage" and I will do one at "African Ancestry" to get some more details.
GARFIELD INTERVIEWS AFRICAN ANCESTRY OWNER: "YOUR DNA AND YOU" WITH DR GINA PAIGE AFRICANANCESTRY
I notice that you yourself are the author of webmedcentral link. Do you have any other source, outside of your own writing? For example Dravidian scholars? And if The Dravidian language is the substratum language of Sanskrit and Tocharian/Kushana, doesn't that mean that these are Niger-Congo languages in origin?
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: Like most foundational Black Americans I don't know what part of Africa my ancestors came from. What I do know is my father's great-great grandfather was taken to Mississippi by the Winters family.
Dravidian belongs to the Niger-Congo Super Family:
The Dravidian language is the substratum language of Sanskrit and Tocharian/Kushana.
I see. Have you ever attempted an autosomal genetic test to trace back your lineage? I have at "My Heritage" and I will do one at "African Ancestry" to get some more details.
GARFIELD INTERVIEWS AFRICAN ANCESTRY OWNER: "YOUR DNA AND YOU" WITH DR GINA PAIGE AFRICANANCESTRY
I notice that you yourself are the author of webmedcentral link. Do you have any other source, outside of your own writing? For example Dravidian scholars? And if The Dravidian language is the substratum language of Sanskrit and Tocharian/Kushana, doesn't that mean that these are Niger-Congo languages in origin?
These are the sources:
Aravanan,K.P. Notable negroid elements in Dravidian India, Journal of Tamil Studies, 1980, pp.20-45.
Aravanan, K P , "Physical and cultural similarities between Dravidians and Africans", Journal of Tamil Studies 10,(1976)pages 23-27.
Aravanan, K P , Dravidians and Africans , Madras, 1979.
Sergent, Bernard (1992). Genčse de L'Inde. Paris: Payot .
N'Diaye, C.T. (1978) The relationship between Dravidian languages and Wolof. Annamalai University Ph.D. Thesis.
Upadhyaya,P & Upadhyaya,S.P., Les liens entre Kerala et l"Afrique tels qu'ils resosortent des survivances culturelles et linguistiques, Bulletin de L'IFAN, no.1, 1979, pp.100-132.
Upadhyaya,P & Upadhyaya,S.P. Affinites ethno-linguistiques entre Dravidiens et les Negro-Africain, Bull.de L'IFAN, No.1, 1976,pp.127-157.
And where would you put the Dravidian language? In the Afroasiatic or PIE phylum? And how does the Dravidian language relate to other languages in East Asia vs those in Northeast and Central Africa. Is there as lingua franca with Dravidian people and Dravidian language? If so, what methodology can be applied?
Dravidian is part of the CWMUS African branch of Afroasiatic
Excuse me, can you elaborate? What does the abbreviation CWMUS, African branch of Afroasiatic mean?
Clyde Winters' Makin up Stuff
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And where would you put the Dravidian language? In the Afroasiatic or PIE phylum? And how does the Dravidian language relate to other languages in East Asia vs those in Northeast and Central Africa. Is there as lingua franca with Dravidian people and Dravidian language? If so, what methodology can be applied?
Dravidian is part of the CWMUS African branch of Afroasiatic
Excuse me, can you elaborate? What does the abbreviation CWMUS, African branch of Afroasiatic mean?
Clyde Winters' Makin up Stuff
lol Ok.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: These are the sources:
Aravanan,K.P. Notable negroid elements in Dravidian India, Journal of Tamil Studies, 1980, pp.20-45.
Aravanan, K P , "Physical and cultural similarities between Dravidians and Africans", Journal of Tamil Studies 10,(1976)pages 23-27.
Aravanan, K P , Dravidians and Africans , Madras, 1979.
Sergent, Bernard (1992). Genčse de L'Inde. Paris: Payot .
N'Diaye, C.T. (1978) The relationship between Dravidian languages and Wolof. Annamalai University Ph.D. Thesis.
Upadhyaya,P & Upadhyaya,S.P., Les liens entre Kerala et l"Afrique tels qu'ils resosortent des survivances culturelles et linguistiques, Bulletin de L'IFAN, no.1, 1979, pp.100-132.
Upadhyaya,P & Upadhyaya,S.P. Affinites ethno-linguistiques entre Dravidiens et les Negro-Africain, Bull.de L'IFAN, No.1, 1976,pp.127-157.
“He even introduced an integrated five-year course in the Tamil Department. He is one among the teachers who produced a lot of talented students,” said Dr Arasu.
Among Aravanan’s notable works is a study on the similarities between the African and Tamil cultures — an effort facilitated by his stint at the Dakar University in Senegal.
Have you ever attempted an autosomal genetic test to trace back your lineage, to get some more details. There could be a Dravidian relation.
"African Ancestry" does great work in this field. For comparison you could use "My Heritage" to see a more global outcome. I have no experience with 23AndMe, but I've heard that they do good work as well.
Posts: 22234 | From: האם אינכם כילדי הכרית אלי בני ישראל | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Leave these fools and house negros behind Dr Winters. They are incapable of doing deep analysis and critical thinking. This is the 2nd paper that confirms R-V88 origins deep in Africa. This is done by comparing diversity of haplotypes. 90% of these fugkergs don’t know what that is and there is a few that pretend they do. And only one or 2 who actually understands to make a meaningful contribution.
One key point to note is contrary to Cruciani’s hypothesis….. and lies. Another take away from the quote below is that the R-V88 pattern do not support such a thing as a Bantu Expansion. I told you so. Another lie made up by Europeans. To resolve this is very simple. Perform a diversity analysis of African R-V88, the few European R-V88 and R-V88 of what is found in Native Americana and Central American Indigenous populations. Eg the Lumbvee.
The same can be done for R1b-M269. But….
Quote:
The origin of the V88 lineages “Although the recently advanced hypothesis that the V88 lineages migrated with Proto-Chadic speakers from the North Africa through the Central Sahara into the Lake Chad Basin,7 given that a high variance was found in lineages from haplogroup R1b1a in the sample from Equatorial Guinea, our results are **also** compatible **with an origin** of the V88 lineages in Central-West Africa.
Assuming that Central-West Africa is in fact the place of origin for V88, the arrival of Chadic groups in the Lake Chad Basin, coming from the North, is equally likely as the** alternative hypothesis** of a migration mediated by the Proto-Chadic speaking people coming from East to West Africa (‘Inter-Saharan' hypothesis), which was previously defended by Lancaster.11
According to Blench's ‘inter-Saharan' hypothesis, Chadic speakers originated during the eastward migration of a pastoralist Cushitic group, from the Nile towards the Lake Chad, with subsequent dispersion in different directions around the lake. The pastoralist nature of the groups involved in the dispersion of haplogroup R1b1a in Central Africa is also supported by the V88 distribution as well as by the distribution of its subclade V69 (the only one found in the African continent).7 In fact, although the origin and dispersion of these lineages seem to be much older than the beginning of the Bantu expansion, which began in this same region in Central Africa,44, 45 its frequency decreases drastically towards the South.
Furthermore, in opposition to the previously suggested direction of migration,7 the presence of these lineages in North Africa could also be explained as the result of a migration of V88 carriers **from** South to North, possibly during the mid-Holocene.
In summary, altogether, our data are compatible with an origin of the V88-derived allele in Central-West Africa and a later migration (or migrations) across the Sahara to North Africa. Assuming this origin for V88, both the ‘Trans-Saharan' and ‘Inter-Saharan' hypotheses for the arrival of Chadic groups in the Lake Chad Basin are equally likely, as already described in other studies,8, 46 but this model is also compatible with the dispersion of V88 from Central-West to North Africa, contrary to what was proposed by Cruciani et al.7 Nevertheless, further evidence will be required to support this hypothesis, and additional data are crucial to obtain a deeper understanding of the origin and history of this haplogroup, namely from the populations in the proposed paths of migration.”
quote:Originally posted by Clyde Winters: [QUOTE]Originally posted by the lioness,: [qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Clyde Winters:
Above is a figure from Gonzalez et al, The genetic landscape of Equatorial Guinea and the origin and migration routes of the Y chromosome haplogroup R-V88. This figure is from the Supplementary Material web page . . In the Supplementary Material we discovered 10 out of 19 subjects in the study carried R1b1-P25 or M269. This is highly significant because it indicates that 53% of the R1 carriers in this study were M269, this finding is further proof of the widespread nature of this so-called Eurasian genes in Africa among populations that have not mated with Europeans.
The R1 haplogroup probably originated in Africa.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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Been pre-occupied with other stuff and of course tracking and getting involved in trying to regain control of the Republic. Let’s see what happens in Arizona. That will be the foundation for things to come.
-------------------- Without data you are just another person with an opinion - Deming Posts: 12143 | From: When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable | Registered: Jun 2007
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