posted
In a reanalysis of Lazaridis' Natufian sample, Daniel Shriner summed up their genome as 61.2% Arabian, 21.2% Northern African, 10.9% Western Asian, and 6.8% Omotic ancestry. The implications of the latter component is that it was speculated to be a plausible source for the Natufians paternal African lineages.
In his Dzudzuana study, Lazaridis modeled the Natufians "putative African" ancestry as "deep ancestry", which hasn't been adequately defined, it could be anything from Basal Eurasian or "Ancestral North African". This ancestry came via a "Taforalt-like" population, which was concluded to be an adequate model for source of the Natufians African ancestry.
My question is this, what are the implications for the presence of East African ancestry in the Natufians, particularly "Ancestral East African" ancestry, and how much does this coincide with the presence of ANA ancestry in them?
Posts: 331 | From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2019
| IP: Logged |
posted
I looked in the links for the word putative combined with African "putative African" and didn't see this term in either paper, unless I missed it
Also searched this other term "deep ancestry" and the only instance I found was on a chart : ________________ Extended Data Figure 8: Deep ancestry of West Eurasians is associated with reduced Neandertal ancestry.
_________________
please quote a few complete sentences or reference to a chart to the claims you are referring to "putative African"
quote:Originally posted by Baalberith:
In his Dzudzuana study, Lazaridis modeled the Natufians "putative African" ancestry as "deep ancestry", which hasn't been adequately defined, it could be anything from Basal Eurasian or "Ancestral North African". This ancestry came via a "Taforalt-like" population, which was concluded to be an adequate model for source of the Natufians African ancestry.
You refer to a Shriner article and a Lazardis and they don't always dovetail
quote: Paleolithic DNA from the Caucasus reveals core of West Eurasian ancestry Iosif Lazaridis et al doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/423079 Set 2018
Dzudzuana 26 thousand year old individuals from Dzudzuana Cave in Georgia in the Caucasus
Karelia in western Russia (EHG Eastern European hunter gatherer)
Taforalt Morocco
VillabrunaSicily WHG Western Hunter Gatherer
Afontova GoraSiberia
ANEAncient North Eurasian the lineage of the people of the Mal'ta-Buret' Siberian culture ( c. 24,000 BP) and populations closely related to them, such as the Upper Paleolithic individuals from Afontova Gora
Lazaridis:
Western PGNE populations, including Neolithic Anatolians, pre-pottery Neolithic farmers from the Levant (PPNB), Natufians, and Taforalt, can all be modeled as a mixture of Dzudzuana and additional ‘Deep’ ancestry that may represent an even earlier split than the Basal Eurasians. Considering 2-way mixtures, we can model Karelia_HG as deriving 34±2.8% of its ancestry from a Villabruna-related source, with the remainder mainly from ANE represented by the AfontovaGora3 (AG3) sample from Lake Baikal3 ∼17kya. Finally, we can model CHG and samples from Neolithic Iran (Iran_N) as deriving their ancestry largely (∼58-64% using qpAdm and ∼45-62% using qpGraph) from a Dzudzuana-like population, but with ancestry from both ‘Deep’ and ANE sources, thus proving that ANE ancestry had reached Western Eurasia long before the Bronze Age Eurasian steppe migrations that carried further westward into mainland Europe.
This is complicated and I haven't gotten it all figured out Lazaridis regards Taforalt as North non-Sub-Saharan Their Y DNA is E1b1b (and some subclades of) maternally U6, M1
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
Baalberith
Ungodly and Satanic Entity
Member # 23079
quote:I looked in the links for the word putative combined with African "putative African" and didn't see this term in either paper, unless I missed it
I actually used this term to describe the ancestry.
Posts: 331 | From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2019
| IP: Logged |
Y-chromosomal haplogroup E-M200 has been found in 25% (3/12) of a small sample of Mbuti from the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Haplogroup B-P7 has been observed most frequently in samples of some populations of pygmies 21% (10/47) Mbuti from Democratic Republic of the Congo __________________________________
Since Taforalt remains are E1b1b and the only other modeling for Africa is limited to Mbuti I would disregard the fact that some of the Mbuti are of Hg B
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
Baalberith
Ungodly and Satanic Entity
Member # 23079
posted
Yes, but would be the implications of such ancestry being partly related ancestry from East Africa? From what I understand, I would have thought that Shriner's analysis and conclusions would be further supported by other studies on this.
Posts: 331 | From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2019
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Baalberith: Yes, but would be the implications of such ancestry being partly related ancestry from East Africa? From what I understand, I would have thought that Shriner's analysis and conclusions would be further supported by other studies on this.
You are not presenting your questions clearly. In your OP you make reference to the article and then have terms in quotes and that is confusing because those terms are not in the article
And now you are talking about East Africa the only time East Africa is mentioned in either article is in the Shriner here>
quote: In the Copper Age, Northern African ancestry increased while Arabian ancestry decreased, possibly indicating entry into Europe from northwest Africa rather than northeast Africa...
In your previous threads you had huge blocks of texts that nobody replied to because they were too long. Now you don't have enough The solution is to quote but concisely, either full sentences or short paragraphs just on the point you are talking about so we can understand exactly you are referring because I am not sure what you are talking about
Posts: 42919 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged |
Baalberith
Ungodly and Satanic Entity
Member # 23079
posted
Sorry, I'm just trying to get confirmation of their East African ancestry as found by Shriner. When you modeled the Natufians ancestry with ancient samples, East Africans like Mota are a poor match. I wonder if the type of ancestry Shriner found is being absorbed by the Taforalt-like signal, which if that' the case, it would explain why the Natufians lacks East African ancestry.
quote:Originally posted by Baalberith: Sorry, I'm just trying to get confirmation of their East African ancestry as found by Shriner. When you modeled the Natufians ancestry with ancient samples, East Africans like Mota are a poor match. I wonder if the type of ancestry Shriner found is being absorbed by the Taforalt-like signal, which if that' the case, it would explain why the Natufians lacks East African ancestry.
You will not see East African ancestry so much in Natufians using Vahaduo because these estimates are based off of averages in a pca where aDNA such as the Natufians are projected on. The tools to parse such ancestry is just not available from such a downstream method. For instance take the Skhirat individuals. When looked at before the actual study was released it was almost impossible to determine that they weren't PPNB + Taforalt with G25, it just isn't built for such high level breakdowns. Moreover, it's also heavily weighted by reference bias due to the heterogeniety of African populations. It will always prefer Eurasian samples if there are overlap in unique variants between tested populations due to their lack of variation. Also bear in mind that the method Lazaridis et. al. 2016 used to attribute the idea that the Natufians lack African ancestry is DIRECTLY upstream of G25 and therefore Vahaduo. It was "SmartPCA" FST scores. see "The genetic structure of the world ’ s first farmers. Supplementary Information." Meanwhile almost every other form of tests can show East African ancestry to some degree... see treemix, qpAdm, ADMIXTURE etc.
Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
| IP: Logged |
Baalberith
Ungodly and Satanic Entity
Member # 23079
posted
Thank you for your elaborate response. This makes so much sense and for days I was struggling to understand this discrepancy. Do you believe that in the aforementioned future, the Natufians would have a more heterogenous genome than what was discovered by Lazaridis, particularly on their deep ancestry (African) side?
Posts: 331 | From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2019
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Baalberith: Thank you for your elaborate response. This makes so much sense and for days I was struggling to understand this discrepancy. Do you believe that in the aforementioned future, the Natufians would have a more heterogenous genome than what was discovered by Lazaridis, particularly on their deep ancestry (African) side?
Yes
Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic