Denzel Washington to Star in Antoine Fuqua's Untitled Hannibal Feature for Netflix. Logline: Based on real-life warrior Hannibal, who is widely regarded as one of the greatest military commanders in history. The film covers the pivotal battles he led against the Roman Republic during the Second Punic War
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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posted
Wouldn't Hannibal have been in his twenties when he attacked Rome? Denzel is a bit long in the tooth for that role, unless he's voice-acting for an animation.
quote:Originally posted by BrandonP: Wouldn't Hannibal have been in his twenties when he attacked Rome? Denzel is a bit long in the tooth for that role, unless he's voice-acting for an animation.
If River Phoenix's old arse can play a 25 year old Napolean, hey why not for Denzel
-------------------- It's not my burden to disabuse the ignorant of their wrong opinions Posts: 2699 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2015
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quote:Originally posted by BrandonP: Wouldn't Hannibal have been in his twenties when he attacked Rome? Denzel is a bit long in the tooth for that role, unless he's voice-acting for an animation.
If River Phoenix's old arse can play a 25 year old Napolean, hey why not for Denzel
I suppose he could pull it off with hair dye and maybe some makeup to hide his wrinkles. Still, it'd save them that effort if they hired someone younger (John Boyega, perhaps? At least if they're going to have a Black dude portray him).
posted
What will the excuse be now ? "We don't have the power to produce those movies" "it's just a fringe movement" ...Just Stfu at this point
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posted
Antoine Fuqua (born May 30, 1965)[1] is an American film director known for his work in the action and thriller genres. He was originally known as a director of music videos, and made his film debut in 1998 with The Replacement Killers. His critical breakthrough was the 2001 crime thriller Training Day.
His subsequent films include Tears of the Sun (2003), King Arthur (2004), Shooter (2007), Brooklyn's Finest (2009), Olympus Has Fallen (2013), The Equalizer (2014), Southpaw (2015), The Magnificent Seven (2016), The Equalizer 2 (2018), and Infinite (2021). He also directed the critically acclaimed documentaries American Dream/American Knightmare (2018), What's My Name: Muhammad Ali (2019), and the 2022 Hulu documentary series Legacy: The True Story of the LA Lakers.
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Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
quote:Originally posted by Antalas: What will the excuse be now ? "We don't have the power to produce those movies" "it's just a fringe movement" ...Just Stfu at this point
Lmao! Good to see you my man
Why did they ban you? I got busy and took a break for a while and when I came back there was no sign of you
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quote:Originally posted by Antalas: What will the excuse be now ? "We don't have the power to produce those movies" "it's just a fringe movement" ...Just Stfu at this point
I don't get your point. Hannibal or the Egyptians being "Black" isn't "fringe" whether you like it or not. Its really contested by different people and I also mean non-Black people. So people who aren't really into history would assume Hannibal is "Black" based off first glance i.e other movies/docs because MANY representations of Hannibal as Black was done by WHITE ppl... Blame them.
Now some agenda of Black Americans to steal all of North African history is some weird shit that's not rooted in reality. So no we don't have to "stfu."
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Askia_The_Great: No one banned Antalas...
quote:Originally posted by Antalas: What will the excuse be now ? "We don't have the power to produce those movies" "it's just a fringe movement" ...Just Stfu at this point
I don't get your point. Hannibal or the Egyptians being "Black" isn't "fringe" whether you like it or not. Its really contested by different people and I also mean non-Black people. So people who aren't really into history would assume Hannibal is "Black" based off first glance i.e other movies/docs because MANY representations of Hannibal as Black was done by WHITE ppl... Blame them.
Now some agenda of Black Americans to steal all of North African history is some weird shit that's not rooted in reality. So no we don't have to "stfu."
Crazy how you guys always have to blame it on "white ppl". The black producer deliberately cast a Black American actor to portray a historical figure from North Africa. This is simply appropriation and a form of erasure. When will you recognize this ?
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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And like I said Hannibal's "race" has always been contested. Heck some argue he was a blue eyed/blonde haired European leader.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
@Askia_The_Great
The only reason I asked why antalas was banned is because of the comments I saw in this thread from March. Starting from the 5th comment onward
quote:Originally posted by Askia_The_Great: Because White people were the first FUCKING ones who not only depicted Hannibal as "Black" but also ARGUED Hannibal as being "Black."
And like I said Hannibal's "race" has always been contested. Heck some argue he was a blue eyed/blonde haired European leader.
I've never seen them arguing that he was black and nothing was contested. It is evident that no mentally sound and well-informed individual would entertain the idea that Hannibal had Nordic or distinctly black features. Regardless of whether Europeans were the first, the fact remains that Black Americans would still depict Hannibal as black. The characterization of Hannibal as a black figure has deep roots in Black American literature, independent of any influence from "white ppl".
Regardless of one's background, just acknowledge the wrongdoing and refrain from adopting a defensive stance as if your community was perpetually innocent.
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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Sex And RaceVol.1 by Joel Agustus Rogers (J.A. Rogers) (original edition 1940)
here's an example
page 88
"Hannibal and his African troops must have brought a great deal of Negro strain into the Roman population. For thirteen years they dominated the peninsula from the Alps to Naples. Hannibal, himself, was a full-blooded Negro with woolly hair, as his coins show. His wife was Spanish, and perhaps white."
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I'm not certain if there are claims of Hannibal being "Negro" prior to this 1940
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Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
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The Hannibal Barca Coin
"Hannibal Barca; The coin of Hannibal Barca are said to be carbon-dated to the time of Hannibal, 247 – 183 B.C., while later European-looking images of the Carthaginian general are reportedly dated a century or more after his death."
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: The Hannibal Barca Coin
"Hannibal Barca; The coin of Hannibal Barca are said to be carbon-dated to the time of Hannibal, 247 – 183 B.C., while later European-looking images of the Carthaginian general are reportedly dated a century or more after his death."
They are not depicting Hannibal but the aethiopian/black mahout of his army :
quote: According to Van Sertima, the Negroes depicted on the obverse of some third-century B.C.E. coins (with elephants on the reverse) indicate the Africoid ancestry of the Carthaginians, although he provides no supporting facts and omits evidence noted by scholars who have suggested that the Negroes on the coinage depicted black mahouts recruited for their well known skill in handling elephants (Snowden 1983, 31-32, 121 n.55).
Frank M. Snowden Jr., Bernal's "Blacks" and the afrocentrists,in: Black athena revisited, The university of North Carolina Press, 1996, p. 121
quote:The evidence as a whole, then, seems to indicate that the Negro depicted on the coinage was one of the black mahouts who survived the rigors of the Alps : that the Plautine reference to Aegyptini was contemporary testimony of Roman knowledge of blacks in Hannibal's army; that Silius Italicus was following a well-authenticated tradition in listing Ethiopians and Nubae in the Carthaginian army; and that a Pompeiian terra cotta of a tower-bearing elephant with a negro driver may have been inspired by the artist's acquaintance with the role of Ethiopian mahouts in the Second Punic War. It is not necessary, however, to conclude that Hannibal employed blacks only as mahouts, because the use of other types of Negro auxiliaries in the Mediterranean is well attested. As far as the coinage and the Pompeiian terra cotta were concerned, it was the black mahouts who made the most lasting impression .
Frank M. Snowden, Jr., Roman encounters with Ethiopian Warriors, in: Blacks in Antiquity, Harvard University Press, 1971, p. 131
Again :
Coins depicting Hannibal and his brother Hasdrubal :
posted
Statue of Baal Hammon; the chief god of Carthage. The National Bardo Museum (Tunis)
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Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
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quote:Originally posted by the Antalas,: They are not depicting Hannibal but the aethiopian/black mahout of his army :
I've seen snowden say that, but who cares? I've seen other scholars say that it is Hannibal.
But ask yourself -- why would anyone put a lowly mahout on coins? Lol......
And is it just a coincidence that Hannibal was known to ride elephants? I think not.
Posts: 2491 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: I've seen snowden say that, but who cares? I've seen other scholars say that it is Hannibal.
This is a consensus not solely Snowden's interpretation.
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: But ask yourself -- why would anyone put a lowly mahout on coins? Lol......
Read the quotes I posted.
quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: And is it just a coincidence that Hannibal was known to ride elephants? I think not. [/QB]
Source ? Also why is his family not depicted as black ? Why carthaginians didn't depict themselves as such ?
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
@Antalas
I can't remember if he rode the elephants but it's an undeniable fact that he brought war elephants with him.
To aswer the rest of your question... ask yourself why is Jesus painted as a white european man when we know he wasn't white european man?
Posts: 2491 | From: North America | Registered: Mar 2021
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Obv: Head of Hermes left, wearing petasos. Rev: Elephant walking right, on its back a basket with three heads visible over the top edge. Two dots below (mark of value). of the Second Punic War
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Some of these coins are thought to depict gods
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Tazarah: The Hannibal Barca Coin
"Hannibal Barca; The coin of Hannibal Barca are said to be carbon-dated to the time of Hannibal, 247 – 183 B.C., while later European-looking images of the Carthaginian general are reportedly dated a century or more after his death."
They are not depicting Hannibal but the aethiopian/black mahout of his army :
quote: According to Van Sertima, the Negroes depicted on the obverse of some third-century B.C.E. coins (with elephants on the reverse) indicate the Africoid ancestry of the Carthaginians, although he provides no supporting facts and omits evidence noted by scholars who have suggested that the Negroes on the coinage depicted black mahouts recruited for their well known skill in handling elephants (Snowden 1983, 31-32, 121 n.55).
Frank M. Snowden Jr., Bernal's "Blacks" and the afrocentrists,in: Black athena revisited, The university of North Carolina Press, 1996, p. 121
quote:The evidence as a whole, then, seems to indicate that the Negro depicted on the coinage was one of the black mahouts who survived the rigors of the Alps : that the Plautine reference to Aegyptini was contemporary testimony of Roman knowledge of blacks in Hannibal's army; that Silius Italicus was following a well-authenticated tradition in listing Ethiopians and Nubae in the Carthaginian army; and that a Pompeiian terra cotta of a tower-bearing elephant with a negro driver may have been inspired by the artist's acquaintance with the role of Ethiopian mahouts in the Second Punic War. It is not necessary, however, to conclude that Hannibal employed blacks only as mahouts, because the use of other types of Negro auxiliaries in the Mediterranean is well attested. As far as the coinage and the Pompeiian terra cotta were concerned, it was the black mahouts who made the most lasting impression .
Frank M. Snowden, Jr., Roman encounters with Ethiopian Warriors, in: Blacks in Antiquity, Harvard University Press, 1971, p. 131
Again :
Coins depicting Hannibal and his brother Hasdrubal :
I believe a main argument which is never addressed was about the coinage is that the Negro is on the opposite side of an Asian elephant. And depictions of Asian Elephants on coinages of that region were exceptionally rare. It was known that Surus/ the Syrian, Hannibal's Elephant was a specially selected Asian Elephant. There has been no explanation as to why the Mahout are not opposing typical African Elephants.
Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
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posted
^^^One has to wonder where these Athiopi auxullaries were from, if according to the biodiversity narriative there were rare like a shiny pokemon above the magical SSA barrier..did the Carthagenians go below the magical barrier to recruit Africans to drive elephants...
According to Snowden the Romans were well familiar with magical barrier true Negro SSAs in the Carthage Army...weird.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
"Black Auxullaries, if we can trust Frontius, served in the Carthagenian Army as early as the 5th Century B.C.E"
But I thought magical barrier SSAs were not in N.A/The Med. until the C.E Slave Trade...GASP.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Askia_The_Great: Because White people were the first FUCKING ones who not only depicted Hannibal as "Black" but also ARGUED Hannibal as being "Black."
And like I said Hannibal's "race" has always been contested. Heck some argue he was a blue eyed/blonde haired European leader.
I've never seen them arguing that he was black and nothing was contested. It is evident that no mentally sound and well-informed individual would entertain the idea that Hannibal had Nordic or distinctly black features. Regardless of whether Europeans were the first, the fact remains that Black Americans would still depict Hannibal as black. The characterization of Hannibal as a black figure has deep roots in Black American literature, independent of any influence from "white ppl".
Regardless of one's background, just acknowledge the wrongdoing and refrain from adopting a defensive stance as if your community was perpetually innocent.
Like I said Hannibal's origin has always been contested. Most Historians didn't know if he was non-Black North African, Black, Phoenician or even European. Yes, European. Because we have NO physical remains of Hannibal. And like I said, Black Americans were not repeat not nor still are the first to depict Hannibal as Black especially using the examples of the two documentaries I posted. Heck there is a good chance he could've been Phoenician for all I care.
But all in all I'm getting tired of this idea of Black Americans trying to erase North Africans from their culture/history. Like Black Americans even have the power to do so, and more importantly hardly anyone in the West is familiar with NA history tbh.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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quote:Originally posted by Askia_The_Great: No one banned Antalas...
"Antalas" AKA Nassbean, has been banned on this site before, at least TWO DIFFERENT TIMES.
He signed up again, now under "Antalas".
EVERYONE who posts here regularly, KNOWS THIS.
He got banned before for Anti-Black statements, he should have been I.P. BANNED!
No shit he was banned/suspended once. The poster I quoted ASSUMED he was banned again which he wasn't. And I would prefer you not to tell the mods how to do our jobs. Because quite frankly if I or the other mods went by who we feel should be banned due to personally disagreements then 30% of this site would be banned. Until I see him or other posters breaking rules then bans will be issued.
Posts: 1891 | From: NY | Registered: Sep 2014
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posted
According to Wiki(not a well trusted site) the coin with the African face/Elephant is dated to the time of Hannibal while the Caucasian ones are dated to 100s of years after his death.
Not that this is proof of a black Hannibal, but it is very eye opening, and IMO not a win for the Med/N.Africa being devoid of "Blacks" or the Blacks=SSA and that all references to Mauri/Melancros N.As are just Tanned Kakazoids...
This shows that not only do Classical sources have Blacks in Punic Armies/Society, the Roman Artists were familiar enough to engrave them on Coins and Statues..but yeah lets keep the Magical Barrier SSA myth alive...
Im starting to see why folks like Swenet and El Mestro take academia with a grain of salt...
quote:Originally posted by Askia_The_Great:
quote:Originally posted by Antalas:
quote:Originally posted by Askia_The_Great: Because White people were the first FUCKING ones who not only depicted Hannibal as "Black" but also ARGUED Hannibal as being "Black."
And like I said Hannibal's "race" has always been contested. Heck some argue he was a blue eyed/blonde haired European leader.
I've never seen them arguing that he was black and nothing was contested. It is evident that no mentally sound and well-informed individual would entertain the idea that Hannibal had Nordic or distinctly black features. Regardless of whether Europeans were the first, the fact remains that Black Americans would still depict Hannibal as black. The characterization of Hannibal as a black figure has deep roots in Black American literature, independent of any influence from "white ppl".
Regardless of one's background, just acknowledge the wrongdoing and refrain from adopting a defensive stance as if your community was perpetually innocent.
Like I said Hannibal's origin has always been contested. Most Historians didn't know if he was non-Black North African, Black, Phoenician or even European. Yes, European. Because we have NO physical remains of Hannibal. And like I said, Black Americans were not repeat not nor still are the first to depict Hannibal as Black especially using the examples of the two documentaries I posted. Heck there is a good chance he could've been Phoenician for all I care.
But all in all I'm getting tired of this idea of Black Americans trying to erase North Africans from their culture/history. Like Black Americans even have the power to do so, and more importantly hardly anyone in the West is familiar with NA history tbh.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
Also, LMAO at a Black Hannibal "Erasing N/A History"....Wait I thought the argument was that Hannibal and the Elite of Carthage WERE Punici...I.E NOT NATIVES...So how is this Erasing N/A History, if anything its "Erasing" the Dead and Extinct Punic Elite Culture....Also according to Classicists who took out a Grenade to kill an Ant in the Snowden book, Blacks(Black N/As) WERE A PART of Cathagenian Culture, so that Culture is just as much theirs as is a Leuko-Berber..
Like these people can't even get their whiny Crocodile tears faux outrage right...lol
quote:Originally posted by Askia_The_Great: But all in all I'm getting tired of this idea of Black Americans trying to erase North Africans from their culture/history. Like Black Americans even have the power to do so, and more importantly hardly anyone in the West is familiar with NA history tbh.
Posts: 8804 | From: The fear of his majesty had entered their hearts, they were powerless | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: According to Wiki(not a well trusted site) the coin with the African face/Elephant is dated to the time of Hannibal while the Caucasian ones are dated to 100s of years after his death.
This shows that...
It's better to look for other sources before saying "this shows"
The options are not only Hannibal or mahout It's not either/or
Posts: 42918 | From: , | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Weren't a lot of portraits on those coins based on figures from Greek mythology anyway? The presumed depictions of Tanit for instance are based on Persephone, whereas the ones of men wielding clubs (sometimes identified as representations of Melqart) are modeled after Heracles. I don't know if we have any basis for identifying any of them as representing specific historical figures. I notice none of them sport textual labels that would identify whom they depict.
quote:Originally posted by Askia_The_Great: But all in all I'm getting tired of this idea of Black Americans trying to erase North Africans from their culture/history. Like Black Americans even have the power to do so, and more importantly hardly anyone in the West is familiar with NA history tbh.
Remember when someone tried to sue Netflix for that documentary representing Cleopatra as mixed-race? I have yet to hear of Black people suing anyone for whitewashing ancient North Africans. I've played enough strategy games to know that they don't usually depict Hannibal as a Black dude, yet AFAIK, no one has sued Sid Meier, Creative Assembly, or Ensemble Studios over that. They don't even sue those studios over their Egyptian depictions.
posted
Im not saying the coins are Hannibal, Im saying that the artists were familiar with "Africoid" features associated with "SSAs" at a time when the Med/N/A were supposed to devoid of them except a minority.
Im referencing the sources in the Snowden book, an anti-Afrocentrist work, THEY are saying "Athiopi" were a part of Carthage in Classical Sources and Art...and that the artists were familiar enough with them to depict them on Coins...
lol, They even date the Athiopi Presence to as early as the 5th Century B.C.E
Bruh If yall don't catch the significance of that I don't know what to say...lol
quote:Originally posted by the lioness,:
quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: According to Wiki(not a well trusted site) the coin with the African face/Elephant is dated to the time of Hannibal while the Caucasian ones are dated to 100s of years after his death.
This shows that...
It's better to look for other sources before saying "this shows"
The options are not only Hannibal or mahout It's not either/or
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Tazarah
Why are you stalking my social media?
Member # 23365
posted
@-Just Call Me Jari-
Exactly... even if it's not Hannibal, why would they put some random, nobody negro on the face of a coin that was going to be in circulation? Lol doesn't make sense
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the only highly reliable identifier is something specific like the name of the person on the coin because they also often put Gods of human form on these coins
posted
The black guy from some posts above is depicted on coins from Italy and are not minted by the Carthaginians themselves.
The Etrurian coins may not have anything to do with Hannibal, maybe they rather align with idolising pictures of Black men in Greek coinage according to this article
quote:The appearance of the elephant and black man’s head on the coin may more convincingly be accounted for by the Etruscans’ sustained contact with the sophisticated intellectual climate of Greece. The profile head of a black man occurs as part of the long-standing vocabulary of visual symbolism presented on Greek coins in the eastern Mediterranean.
quote:The elephant on the other side may represent the virtue of wisdom and strength, also associated with Turms, the Etruscan equivalent of the Greek god Hermes. What meaning this could have had in an Etruscan context remains unclear, but it undoubtedly carried a positive meaning of the highest order.
The elephant could be inspired from Greek coins where sometimes Indian elephants can be seen.
Since, as Brandon says, there are no inscriptions on the coins it can be hard to know exactly who they depict. I read (don´t have the source right now) that punic leaders could depict themselves as gods. Often they wear wreaths too. The punic coins are also relatively consistent in how the people on them are depicted.
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2683 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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Phocaea or Phokaia (Ancient Greek: Φώκαια, Phókaia; modern-day Foça in Turkey) was an ancient Ionian Greek city on the western coast of Anatolia. Greek colonists from Phocaea founded the colony of Massalia[1] (modern-day Marseille, in France) in 600 BC, Emporion (modern-day Empúries, in Catalonia, Spain) in 575 BC and Elea (modern-day Velia, in Campania, Italy) in 540 BC.
Probably following the Lydians, the Phocaeans were among the earliest in the world to make and use coins as money. Its earliest coins were made of electrum, a naturally occurring alloy of silver and gold. The British Museum has a Phocaean coin containing the image of a seal dating from 600 to 550 BC.
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They says that creature there is a seal(animal) pointed down rather than on first impression looking like a goose
Silver drachm of Phocaea Badges have nothing to do with mythology, but are a pun on a city name. The Ionian city of Phocaea, which in Greek literally means ‘seal’ used a seal either as the principal design (on its earliest coins) or as a subsidiary design on much of its later coinage.
Electrum is a naturally occurring alloy of gold and silver,[1][2] with trace amounts of copper and other metals. Its color ranges from pale to bright yellow, depending on the proportions of gold and silver. It has been produced artificially and is also known as "green gold".[3]
Electrum was used as early as the third millennium BC in Old Kingdom of Egypt, sometimes as an exterior coating to the pyramidions atop ancient Egyptian pyramids and obelisks. It was also used in the making of ancient drinking vessels. The first known metal coins made were of electrum, dating back to the end of the 7th century or the beginning of the 6th century BC.
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posted
^^^It's interesting, the association of an Ethiopian face with Greek Gods and Greek Cities/Metropolis, on the other side is the Snowden book that claims documented Athiopi Auxiliaries in the Carthage Army as the source for the coin, either way we don't know 100%, but we do know there was some sort of "black" African presence in Carthage according to Anti-Afrocentrist Snoden Book
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posted
About film versions of Hannibal: The Italian film Hannibal must be mentioned. The film features Bud Spencer and Terence Hill before they became a famous duo, and before the Trinity films. It was made in 1959. Neither Hill or Spencer played Hannibal, but an actor with name Victor Mature. This cover is probably from a later time when Hill and Spencer had become famous.
Hannibal has also figured in comic books like this number of Classics illustrated. Here we see Hannibals nephew saving a local girl from a rampaging elephant. Notice his very blonde hair
-------------------- Once an archaeologist, always an archaeologist Posts: 2683 | From: Sweden | Registered: Mar 2020
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I can't remember if he rode the elephants but it's an undeniable fact that he brought war elephants with him.
To aswer the rest of your question... ask yourself why is Jesus painted as a white european man when we know he wasn't white european man?
Strangely you don't remember now...and yes he used war elephants the same way many other mediterranean powers of his time did. It's actually europeans who introduced their use to Carthaginians...
The oldest depictions we have of Jesus weren't made by europeans but by people closely related to his ethnic group.
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: I believe a main argument which is never addressed was about the coinage is that the Negro is on the opposite side of an Asian elephant. And depictions of Asian Elephants on coinages of that region were exceptionally rare. It was known that Surus/ the Syrian, Hannibal's Elephant was a specially selected Asian Elephant. There has been no explanation as to why the Mahout are not opposing typical African Elephants.
Yes because this syrian elephant was the only one who survived... or do you think all the mahouts died with their elephants ?
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: ^^^One has to wonder where these Athiopi auxullaries were from, if according to the biodiversity narriative there were rare like a shiny pokemon above the magical SSA barrier..did the Carthagenians go below the magical barrier to recruit Africans to drive elephants...
According to Snowden the Romans were well familiar with magical barrier true Negro SSAs in the Carthage Army...weird.
They may have come from somewhere around the Red Sea, since we know Carthage used to import elephants and their mahouts from there via the Ptolemies :
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: [QB] According to Wiki(not a well trusted site) the coin with the African face/Elephant is dated to the time of Hannibal while the Caucasian ones are dated to 100s of years after his death.
Not that this is proof of a black Hannibal, but it is very eye opening, and IMO not a win for the Med/N.Africa being devoid of "Blacks" or the Blacks=SSA and that all references to Mauri/Melancros N.As are just Tanned Kakazoids...
This shows that not only do Classical sources have Blacks in Punic Armies/Society, the Roman Artists were familiar enough to engrave them on Coins and Statues..but yeah lets keep the Magical Barrier SSA myth alive...
Im starting to see why folks like Swenet and El Mestro take academia with a grain of salt...
They are not dated to "100s of years after his death" I literally posted a link to Barcid coins minted during their lives and Carthaginians coins from the second punic war. Can't your read ?
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: I believe a main argument which is never addressed was about the coinage is that the Negro is on the opposite side of an Asian elephant. And depictions of Asian Elephants on coinages of that region were exceptionally rare. It was known that Surus/ the Syrian, Hannibal's Elephant was a specially selected Asian Elephant. There has been no explanation as to why the Mahout are not opposing typical African Elephants.
Yes because this syrian elephant was the only one who survived... or do you think all the mahouts died with their elephants ?
No I just thought they were likely to ride North African elephants... like everyone else, except Hannibal. North African Elephants related to African Forest Elephants were smaller and more avaialable to the Carthaginians. The last surviving elephant was thought to be Surus, Hannibal's elephant.
Posts: 1781 | From: New York | Registered: Jul 2016
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Baalberith
Ungodly and Satanic Entity
Member # 23079
quote:Originally posted by Askia_The_Great: No one banned Antalas...
"Antalas" AKA Nassbean, has been banned on this site before, at least TWO DIFFERENT TIMES.
He signed up again, now under "Antalas".
EVERYONE who posts here regularly, KNOWS THIS.
He got banned before for Anti-Black statements, he should have been I.P. BANNED!
No shit he was banned/suspended once. The poster I quoted ASSUMED he was banned again which he wasn't. And I would prefer you not to tell the mods how to do our jobs. Because quite frankly if I or the other mods went by who we feel should be banned due to personally disagreements then 30% of this site would be banned. Until I see him or other posters breaking rules then bans will be issued.
Are you seriously making a distinction between being "on vacation" vs being "banned"? Bro no offense, but you're being naïve. Like I feel that you're not grasping the situation at hand here. These aren't just "personal disagreements" between peers, these are personal attacks! Clashes of the culture war, for which he's an active participant in, much like most of the people on this forum. Only that he's our antagonist and he made it his "mission" to challenge Afrocentrism. We're the Afrocentrists in his eyes! It's one of the reasons why most of his interactions with some of the members here have been hostile and bad faith. You can see this through his condescending demeanor that he's showing in this thread. And no, he wasn't banned once as "Nassbean". He was banned before under the moniker Hamilcar and again under his other handle HotepBoy. So he was banned three times! In fact, a couple of months ago he made another account when he came back from his vacation as "Antalas". He's not interested in having conversations for the pursuit of sharing intellectual content for this forum. He said this himself! He's only interested in baiting us to engage with him in these silly semantic debates about the Black presence in the MENA world. He's just a verified troll and you'll only be feeding his ego (or information) by continuing to allow him to be on this site.
Posts: 331 | From: Hell | Registered: Jun 2019
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quote:Originally posted by Elmaestro: I believe a main argument which is never addressed was about the coinage is that the Negro is on the opposite side of an Asian elephant. And depictions of Asian Elephants on coinages of that region were exceptionally rare. It was known that Surus/ the Syrian, Hannibal's Elephant was a specially selected Asian Elephant. There has been no explanation as to why the Mahout are not opposing typical African Elephants.
Yes because this syrian elephant was the only one who survived... or do you think all the mahouts died with their elephants ?
No I just thought they were likely to ride North African elephants... like everyone else, except Hannibal. North African Elephants related to African Forest Elephants were smaller and more avaialable to the Carthaginians. The last surviving elephant was thought to be Surus, Hannibal's elephant.
You're not teaching me anything here you simply did not understand : Again, there was only one elephant left when the people of Arretium could see Hannibal's army and of course it would have been led by one of the available black mahout who, like one of the quote above highlights, knew the art of handling these beasts.
Picture being an Italian of the 3rd century BC, witnessing for the first time such a majestic beast, and atop it, a black/Aethiopian man. As Snowden suggests, this spectacle would undoubtedly have etched a powerful impression on them.
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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quote:Originally posted by -Just Call Me Jari-: Also, LMAO at a Black Hannibal "Erasing N/A History"....Wait I thought the argument was that Hannibal and the Elite of Carthage WERE Punici...I.E NOT NATIVES...So how is this Erasing N/A History, if anything its "Erasing" the Dead and Extinct Punic Elite Culture....Also according to Classicists who took out a Grenade to kill an Ant in the Snowden book, Blacks(Black N/As) WERE A PART of Cathagenian Culture, so that Culture is just as much theirs as is a Leuko-Berber..
quote:Originally posted by Askia_The_Great: But all in all I'm getting tired of this idea of Black Americans trying to erase North Africans from their culture/history. Like Black Americans even have the power to do so, and more importantly hardly anyone in the West is familiar with NA history tbh.
Carthage's aristocracy was not endogamous but was above all defined by wealth hence why we have testimonies of unions between Carthaginians and Greeks, iberians or Numidians. I've already posted countless evidence of Carthage's population being predominantly North African with possibly a large south european minority (we also have DNA results from Kerkouane in Tunisia, and many punic sites in Southern Europe).
So yes, this is appropriation of our History. I won't even adress your ridiculous last sentence.
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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quote:Originally posted by Askia_The_Great: Like I said Hannibal's origin has always been contested. Most Historians didn't know if he was non-Black North African, Black, Phoenician or even European. Yes, European. Because we have NO physical remains of Hannibal. And like I said, Black Americans were not repeat not nor still are the first to depict Hannibal as Black especially using the examples of the two documentaries I posted. Heck there is a good chance he could've been Phoenician for all I care.
But all in all I'm getting tired of this idea of Black Americans trying to erase North Africans from their culture/history. Like Black Americans even have the power to do so, and more importantly hardly anyone in the West is familiar with NA history tbh. [/QB]
The consensus has remained unchallenged, and the only debates I've encountered revolve around the extent of Hannibal's North African/European/Levantine heritage. There is no serious contention about Hannibal being Black. What's next, Indian or Chinese ?
Unfortunately you keep pretending there isn't any type of appropriation/erasure despite the constant evidence I post. all you do is always blaming "whites" "they did it first" ...it's tiresome I seriously don't see why you're so defensive and blind. Afrocentrist videos amass thousands of views daily, as do corresponding social media accounts, and now, even movies and series are adopting this narrative.
Posts: 1779 | From: Somewhere In the Rif Mountains | Registered: Nov 2021
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