If a painting commemorating the subject’s involvement in a wedding ceremony includes other people of both sexes, it is more than likely that the bride and the groom will be among them. Since the only two other people in the painting, a male and a female, the solution space has been drastically reduced for us.
When we look at the painting we see that the god Hymen is holding a crown in addition to his usual torch, in the style of the sceptre and orb present in portraits of monarchs.
A closer look at the depiction of Hymen shows that it bears a good resemblance to King George III, the groom of the wedding. So to paraphrase Sherlock Holmes, if the hitherto unidentified male in the painting is the groom King George, then the unidentified female no matter how improbably black she is, must be the bride, aka yours truly Queen Sophia Charlotte. quod erat demonstrandum
-------------------- The Habsburg Agenda - Defending Western Christian civilization Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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'Invisible Queen:' New Book Examines Britain's Hidden Black Royalty
quote:Myers wrote the book Invisible Queen, which examines Charlotte’s lineage and her history, after accidently seeing a picture of the queen on the internet captioned, “queen of England for 57 years.” After much research, Myers found that the queen had African Moorish descent. The book is exclusively sold on the author’s website, myerspublishing.com.
A PBS report also says that Queen Charlotte was directly descended from Margarita de Castro y Sousa, a Black branch of the Portuguese Royal House.
Born in Germany in a noble family, Queen Charlotte was recruited to marry English King George III in the 1700s. Married at 17, she had 15 children, 2 of whom died in infancy, according to Myers.
In the 1700s, Myers spoke four languages, read extensively and had what is equivalent to today’s high school education.
Queen Charlotte was also an anti-slavery activist and an abolitionist, according to Myers. She protested the sugar plantation that thrived off the free labor of African slaves in the anti-Saccharine Movement in the late 1700s, according to Myers.
Was this Britain's first black queen? Queen Charlotte was the wife of George III and, like him, of German descent. But did she also have African ancestry? By Stuart Jeffries
If you google Queen Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, you'll quickly come across a historian called Mario de Valdes y Cocom. He argues that her features, as seen in royal portraits, were conspicuously African, and contends that they were noted by numerous contemporaries. He claims that the queen, though German, was directly descended from a black branch of the Portuguese royal family, related to Margarita de Castro e Souza, a 15th-century Portuguese noblewoman nine generations removed, whose ancestry she traces from the 13th-century ruler Alfonso III and his lover Madragana, whom Valdes takes to have been a Moor and thus a black African.
____________________________
wikipedia
line of descent according to independent researcher Mario de Valdes y Cocom
Madragana Ben Aloandro, later Maior or Mór Afonso (born c. 1230, Faro, Algarve, Portugal), was a woman from the Algarve known as a mistress to king Afonso III of Portugal, in the 13th century, when he ended the Reconquista in Portugal by taking Faro in 1249. Faro was at that time the last part of the Kingdom of the Algarve still in Muslim hands, and there her father was the Qadi. Christening
She was christened in time,receiving her new name as Maior Afonso, or Mor Afonso, Mor being short for Maior, a common female name in medieval Portuguese. Afonso was given her in baptism as her new patronymic, meaning "the daughter of" Afonso - and that suggests that her elderly royal lover was also her godfather, that she took his spiritual "fatherhood" when christened. Her father's name was Aloandro Ben Bekar (also known in Portuguese as Aloandro or Aldroando Gil after his christening).
In ancient Portuguese chronicles, Madragana was also referred to as Mouroana,Mouroana Gil, and Madraganil - all of which are Christian names. Ethnicity Madragana as ancestress of Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, wife of king George III of England
There is some controversy regarding her ethnicity. Duarte Nunes de Leão, a Portuguese royal chronicler of the 16th century, said that Madragana was a Moor. That was denied in the 18th century by António Caetano de Sousa,[4] in which he is followed by many modern authors. She was probably Mozarab. ____________________
Mozarab
The Mozarabs is a modern historical term that refers to the Iberian Christians who lived under Moorish rule in Al-Andalus. Although their descendants remained unconverted to Islam, they were mostly fluent in Arabic and adopted elements of Arabic culture.
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Meet Dr. Stephanie E. Myers, author of the book, “Invisible Queen,” the first British Royal with Moorish/African Heritage and Dr. Phyllis Pajardo, Superintendent of the City of Fairfax Public Schools.
quote:Originally posted by Ish Gebor: Meet Dr. Stephanie E. Myers, author of the book, “Invisible Queen,” the first British Royal with Moorish/African Heritage and Dr. Phyllis Pajardo, Superintendent of the City of Fairfax Public Schools.
quote: "Her (Queen Charlotte's) mom was a mixed race woman and had inherited this Moorish heritage through her matrilineal line, her mom's family
Stephanie E. Myers
If what some call Moorish heritage of Queen Charlotte she inherited from her mother it means her mother Elizabeth Albertine, above had twice the amount of Moorish heritage Queen Charlotte had. Yet nobody talks about her being black.
And the first ancestor entering into to the royal lineage who is believed by Stephanie E. Myers Mario de Valdes y Cocom to be a Moor of some sort Madragana Ben Aloandr (mistress of king Afonso III of Portugal) she was born in 1230, five hundred and fourteen years before Queen Charlotte. So if this woman Madragana was a Moor and for arguments sake if we are to assume she was 100% African that means there are 15 marriages to 15 different Europeans diluting that African ancestry by the time we get to Queen Charlotte and you can see that by the family tree I posted earlier.
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Is it just me, or are all the responses deflecting from the question raised in the topic?
The question is whether the painting itself lends support to the notion of Queen Charlotte being black.
We all know about the wheeze from Mario de Valdes y Cocom to deflect attention from the fact that Europe's Royal Family in general are descendants of people we call Sub-Saharan Africans and there is no need to rehash those facts here.
People who refer to Valdes y Cocom's story try to focus on her ancestry being North African[/] as though it makes them less [i]Negro
Can we revert back to the issue of the contents or the allegory expressed in the painting itself?
-------------------- The Habsburg Agenda - Defending Western Christian civilization Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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The title of this painting is "Lady Elizabeth Keppel" and it was painted by Joshua Reynolds.
In the prominent central position is Elizabeth Keppel. She is decorating a sculpture of Hymen the god of marriage with flowers. By her side, at left, in a lower position (perhaps she is crouching down) is a black girl who is handing Elizabeth Keppel garlands of flowers to put on the statue and they are looking at each other. Keppel's dress is the one she had worn recently as a bridesmaid to Queen Charlotte at her wedding to George III. As one of ten attendants chosen from the eldest unmarried daughters of dukes and earls, she helped to carry Charlotte's train (the long back part of her dress).
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The question is whether the painting itself lends support to the notion of Queen Charlotte being black.
If she's black then one of her parents was even more black
If you had knowledge and the subject, maybe you would comprehend more.
Even in this day and time we can see types like her in Latin America of which both parents aren’t that dark complexioned.
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Dudes the question is not about whether Queen Charlotte had visibly African traits, but whether the painting lends support to that belief.
Have you guys actually read the Quora article itself? It is about the interpretation of the painting itself, not just the presence of a Black woman in it.
-------------------- The Habsburg Agenda - Defending Western Christian civilization Posts: 890 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2014
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If a painting commemorating the subject’s involvement in a wedding ceremony includes other people of both sexes, it is more than likely that the bride and the groom will be among them.
For this to be true you would have to show another example of a bridesmaid featured and the bride and groom in the same painting. In addition you say that the painting includes people of both sexes but it doesn't. It shows a sculpture of a male back in the darkness.
What king and queen would allow themselves to be portrayed in a painting of which a bridesmaid was the main feature? What queen would portray herself handing a garland of flowers to a bridesmaid to decorate a statue with?
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Lady Elizabeth Keppel by Sir Joshua Reynolds
quote:Originally posted by A Habsburg Agenda: a) Is there anything to suggest that the Black woman may not be there on her own account?
b) Does it look as though the Black woman is handing the flowers she is holding to the white woman?
c) Do you notice that the male back in the darkness is carrying a crown? Is the crown intended for the bridesmaid?
a)The painting does not inform us of the circumstances of why the black girl is there. However its shows her off to the side and in a much lower position behind the main figure, a bridesmaid. No queen would allow a portrait of a brides maid in which she would be secondary in back of a bridesmaid, off to the side crouching down. If you look carefully you can also observe the black girl is looking at Lady Keppel but Lady Keppel is not looking back at her. She is looking in a direction a foot or two above her head, not making eye contact with the person below her.
b)yes she is holding up the garland of flowers waiting for Lady Keppel to place the garland she already has on the statue so that she can then put on the next garland.
c)I don't notice a male person in the background. I notice a statue of the God of marriage Hymen holding a crown. The crown is symbolic of the royal marriage that Lady Keppel had been a part of
Queen Charlotte when she was Princess Sophie Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz by Johann Georg Ziesenis (1716-1776)
^ this painting of Princess Charlotte before he was Queen, like the painting above, has the black figure in a lower position handing the the main figure flowers and as in many other paintings of the period the black figure is looking at the face of the main figure but the main figure does not return eye contact. The main figures is often looking back at what would be us, the viewer of the painting, if not in some other direction
Joshua Reynolds George IV (when Prince of Wales)
^ this is by Joshua Reynolds, the same court painter that painted Lady Keppel. The black person is adjusting the Prince's garment. The Prince is not looking at him doing this his head is turned in the other direction looking at something outside of the the picture's view
Louise de Kéroualle, Duchess of Portsmouth by Pierre Mignard oil on canvas, 1682
^ we see this over and over again in paintings from this period, the black person not the main subject of the painting but they are looking at the main subject of the painting and has brought them something and this person not returning eye contact. This stuff is painful to look at
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Caravaggio (1571–1610), born and trained in Milan, stands as one of the most original and influential contributors to late 16th century and early 17th century European painting. He was known for painting figures, even those of classical or religious themes, in contemporary clothing, or as ordinary men and women. His inclusion of the seedier side of life was in marked contrast to the trends of the time. He used tenebrism and stark contrasts between partially lit figures and dark backgrounds to dramatize the effect.
quote:Originally posted by A Habsburg Agenda: a) Is there anything to suggest that the Black woman may not be there on her own account?
b) Does it look as though the Black woman is handing the flowers she is holding to the white woman?
c) Do you notice that the male back in the darkness is carrying a crown? Is the crown intended for the bridesmaid?
a)The painting does not inform us of the circumstances of why the black girl is there. However its shows her off to the side and in a much lower position behind the main figure, a bridesmaid. No queen would allow a portrait of a brides maid in which she would be secondary in back of a bridesmaid, off to the side crouching down. If you look carefully you can also observe the black girl is looking at Lady Keppel but Lady Keppel is not looking back at her. She is looking in a direction a foot or two above her head, not making eye contact with the person below her.
b)yes she is holding up the garland of flowers waiting for Lady Keppel to place the garland she already has on the statue so that she can then put on the next garland.
c)I don't notice a male person in the background. I notice a statue of the God of marriage Hymen holding a crown. The crown is symbolic of the royal marriage that Lady Keppel had been a part of
^ this painting of Princess Charlotte before he was Queen, like the painting above, has the black figure in a lower position handing the the main figure flowers and as in many other paintings of the period the black figure is looking at the face of the main figure but the main figure does not return eye contact. The main figures is often looking back at what would be us, the viewer of the painting, if not in some other direction
^ this is by Joshua Reynolds, the same court painter that painted Lady Keppel. The black person is adjusting the Prince's garment. The Prince is not looking at him doing this his head is turned in the other direction looking at something outside of the the picture's view
^ we see this over and over again in paintings from this period, the black person not the main subject of the painting but they are looking at the main subject of the painting and has brought them something and this person not returning eye contact. This stuff is painful to look at
My dear Lioness, as time has proved again and again, you are clearly not that bright. Time has done your intellect no favours in spite of all the time you have spent in the company of sharp minds on Egyptsearch, so rather than continuing to tax your little brain, I will move on to something even you should find easy to digest.
Before I proceed, I want you to know that you should consider yourself privileged and indeed very fortunate to find yourself in the company of a great mind such as mine, that I deign to grace you with these delectable morsels of insight. Hopefully you will be humbled and if you are honest with yourself you will learn to open your mind to greater insight into the hidden meaning and deeper mysteries of medieval paintings and portraiture, not to mention life, the universe and everything.
It is interesting that you should bring up the painting of the black girl with the Duchess of Portsmouth.
Could it be connected with a painting of the French royal family made 12 years earlier, as they both feature someone offering another pearls and coral?
The woman on the left is Henrietta Maria of France, the mother of Charles II. The man she is proferring the pearls and coral to is her nephew, Charles's cousin and brother-in-law Phillipe. The woman standing next to Phillipe is his wife Charles's sister Henriette and the girl standing between them is their daughter Marie Louise. You know that Louise de Keroualle was lady-in-waiting to Henriette don't you? Marie Louise was a young girl then. They must have been close.
Isn't it telling that pearls and coral which where offered to Charles's brother-in-law Phillipe in the presence of Marie Louise should wind up being offered to Louise de Keroualle by some little black girl?
Perhaps the painting depicts Marie Louise offering the pearls and coral gifted to her by her grand-aunt Henrietta Maria to her mother's lady-in-waiting.
Could that be why this painting of Marie Louise lying in state(she later became Queen of Spain) features a Black woman laid under the canopy?
Note that the her portrait in the top left corner doesn't exhibit the usual pinkish/creamish "flesh tones" of the others in the painting.
Hopefully Lioness, you will have learned something interesting today, and we hope that it will stand you in good stead.
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King Louis XIV of France and the royal family in the personification of Greek Gods, circa 1670. Living room of the Oeil-de-Boeuf of the Grand Trianon of Versailles. by Jean Nocret (Philippe of France, left male figure)
quote:Originally posted by A Habsburg Agenda: Hopefully you will be humbled and if you are honest with yourself you will learn to open your mind to greater insight into the hidden meaning and deeper mysteries of medieval paintings and portraiture, not to mention life, the universe and everything.
It is interesting that you should bring up the painting of the black girl with the Duchess of Portsmouth.
Could it be connected with a painting of the French royal family made 12 years earlier, as they both feature someone offering another pearls and coral?
The woman on the left is Henrietta Maria of France, the mother of Charles II. The man she is proferring the pearls and coral to is her nephew, Charles's cousin and brother-in-law Phillipe. The woman standing next to Phillipe is his wife Charles's sister Henriette and the girl standing between them is their daughter Marie Louise. You know that Louise de Keroualle was lady-in-waiting to Henriette don't you? Marie Louise was a young girl then. They must have been close.
^^ Above Henrietta Maria of France with Trident, pearls and coral in the personification of Poseidon/Neptune
.
Interesting similarity, in the black girl here also with pearls and coral in painting 12 years later. Perhaps the later painter copied the objects but changed the context. I don't think Henrietta Maria is proffering the coral and pearls to Philippe of France. She is not looking at him and she is further away. She is personifying Poseiden or Neptune holding a trident as well as holding coral and a few pearls. Philippe is holding a large object and in no position to to receive an offering anyway. The black girl in the other painting holds no trident so the pearls and coral are not strong enough without the trident to indicate that the black girl is supposed to be personifying Poseidon/Neptune. The pearls are much more emphasized. They are also jewelry and less symbolic of the sea than is the coral piece which is not also jewelry. The girl is looking at Louise de Keroualle expecting attention to her holding out the pearls. Henrietta Maria is not looking at Philippe expecting his attention. She is there to be seen
A rediscovered portrait of Henrietta-Anne of England:music, portraiture, and the arts at the Court of FranceFlorence Gétreau
After the Ballet de Villers-Cotterêts (September 25th, 1665) the king and Madame were again central to Benserade’s and Lully’s Ballet des Muses, performed on December 2nd, 1666, in Saint-Germain.74 Madame was alternatively a shepherdess (protected from the wolves by her little dog Mimy), a Spaniard, a Pieride, and even a Moor facing the dangerous force of the king’s eyes and his “ardans rayons [des] Soleils d ’Afrique”
(Henrietta of England youngest daughter of King Charles I of England, Scotland and Ireland and his wife, Henrietta Maria of France)
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Your answer doesn't explain the swarthy complexion of the woman lying in state.
Last time I asked you said it was putrefaction!!
Others claim it is due to being in shadow, despite the fact that pink skin is lighter than the red of the pillow which is well lit on both sides.
Here we have a gloomy painting of the corpse of Marie Louise of Orléans, Queen of Spain by Sebastián Muñoz, 1689 on wikipedia It's looks odd the unpleasant grey color of Queen's complexion is in the upper left corner sub-portrait
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"The queen mother (Charlotte, wife of George III.) small and crooked, with a true mulatto face" pg 50 Memoirs of Baron Stockmar, Volume 1 By Ernst Alfred Christian Freiherr von Stockmar
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