quote:

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Originally posted by Suta:
Generally conspiracy theorists and accusers of intention say more about themselves than they do the individuals they doubt.

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It is of interest to me because I am Egyptian.
Egypt is involved.

It is of interest to me because I believe in the Palestinan cause.
Israel is involved.

It is of interest to me because I do not believe I'm stupid.
Insulting my intelligence at one point, it was.

It is of interest to me because some of my dear friends here on ES, are also insulted by the way things turned out.

It is of interest to me because I met Debbie personally, and BTW her address is public...and I do not believe she is a spy at all.

What I would like to see to wrap up this extremely serious thread, is:

Mark explaining the story from A to Z.
It is our own choice to believe or not.

Personally, and in total honesty what disturbed me the most about the pololo story, is the fact that by revealing all this on the net by Mark, with such a political and sensitive issue attached, without 'fear' was totally NAIVE, and made me doubt of the veracity of the 'wall protest' story. And the 'easy' way this whole issue was handled leads to believe that Egypt needs to be even more protected at the boarder.

To all:

If Egypt's army let Mark go home, doesn't that mean that he is not considered a political threat to Egypt?

Cross cutural issues come to mind:

Isn't it also possible that as Egyptians, and or/Palestinians our sensitivity towards issues in the region, are totally 'missed' by other nationalities?

I also went to the other forum he posted on (looking to see if he had made any reply there) and noticed that Debbie had asked the members there to come to this board to "convince us". I ask why? If Debbie was unable to "convince" some of us here, why would she think total strangers would be listened to. I can only see some really heated and uncalled for conversations going on by her request.

The other thing I would like to bring up, is that the original post by Mark was deleted for some reason. I was told security or something like that. Debby, why did you make another public post concerning this if it was so hush hush that the original was deleted. Your email "network" is large enough that those you saw deserving enough of information could surely have been reached without you posting here again.

Mark...Lets hear from you

Laura

quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:
I'm trying to make sense of all this pololo story.

It is of interest to me because I am Egyptian.
Egypt is involved.

It is of interest to me because I believe in the Palestinan cause.
Israel is involved.

It is of interest to me because I do not believe I'm stupid.
Insulting my intelligence at one point, it was.

It is of interest to me because some of my dear friends here on ES, are also insulted by the way things turned out.

It is of interest to me because I met Debbie personally, and BTW her address is public...and I do not believe she is a spy at all.

What I would like to see to wrap up this extremely serious thread, is:

Mark explaining the story from A to Z.
It is our own choice to believe or not.

Personally, and in total honesty what disturbed me the most about the pololo story, is the fact that by revealing all this on the net by Mark, with such a political and sensitive issue attached, without 'fear' was totally NAIVE, and made me doubt of the veracity of the 'wall protest' story. And the 'easy' way this whole issue was handled leads to believe that Egypt needs to be even more protected at the boarder.

My last question to all:

If Egypt's army let Mark go home, doesn't that mean that he is not considered a political threat to Egypt?

[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 02 May 2004).]

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I tell you, I didn't know you'd be so offened at all. I just figured you would respond by emailing me and asking what was up. My mistake. Big mistake.

P.S. There is another thread over there you need to see Laura.

Ok enough of my little sarcasm.

We have both been on this board for quite some time now, several years. I would suffice it to say there has been many instances of personality clashes between the 2 of us, but I will say I am happy that this whole incident with Mark did not become a legal nightmare for you. Do I thin you are a spy? Of course not. Regardless of our differences I would never wish or be happy if harm came your way. Monica is right when she said that sometimes issues concerning Palestinians or other causes can have a different meaning to those who it directly effects. I am all too familiar with harm that can come to those who get involved in such issues and I guess that is one of the reasons why I questioned the "sanity" of you and the others who were involved in this, especially when such "light" was made of the whole thing by the post made by your drivers.

I still would like to hear from Mark, as am sure the rest would also.

Peace
Laura

[This message has been edited by Laura (edited 02 May 2004).]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jason:

Don't let yourself to be persuaded easily - stay focused on the facts. This is what I observed by reading replies here.
...
She organized everything in attempt to smuggle a person. This is the fact. The person with common sense would not do it. The whole story is simply suspicious. Why would anyone do it for someone whom you don't even know? Two men who were involved were asked to do it. I think they were manipulated. They did job for her.

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Sounds like you're reading too many detective stories, Jason. The picture of Debbie as a spy though, manipulating some guys to "do a job for her" is quite hilarious I have to say.

Anyway - I haven't been much interested in this story but I find all this bickering going on here and the insults thrown at Debbie a bit too much.

I know Debbie and the two guys involved personally and all this talk about spies and tactics etc. is getting a bit ridiculous.

Why they did it and how and if they were acting responsibly or not might be questioned. Fact is they helped someone who they didn't even know (and who did not act particularly careful by posting his story on a public message board). They took a risk, they apparently had fun doing it and the story went well. Can't we just leave it at that?

quote:

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I also went to the other forum he posted on (looking to see if he had made any reply there) and noticed that Debbie had asked the members there to come to this board to "convince us".

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And, Laura, if you post things from EgytTalk here why can't you just say so?

What bothers me is that you copy and paste stuff from there but always refer to it as "the other forum" and similar expressions. Everyone knows which forum you're talking about, so don't act as if it's a dirty word or something like that. There is no rule on this board that prohibits the mentioning of other Egypt-related forums.

Different boards have different "personalities" that appeal to different people. If you don't like ET or the members or the language sometimes used on there it, that's fine, but if you go there and take the time to read, copy and paste things, why not simply say so?

quote:

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Originally posted by Dalia:
Sounds like you're reading too many detective stories, Jason. The picture of Debbie as a spy though, manipulating some guys to "do a job for her" is quite hilarious I have to say.

I know Debbie and the two guys involved personally and all this talk about spies and tactics etc. is getting a bit ridiculous.

Why they did it and how and if they were acting responsibly or not might be questioned. Fact is they helped someone who they didn't even know (and who did not act particularly careful by posting his story on a public message board). They took a risk, they apparently had fun doing it and the story went well. Can't we just leave it at that?

[This message has been edited by Dalia (edited 02 May 2004).]

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I agree with everything Dalia said here. I also know Debbie personally, and one of the guys involved. Whatever the guys reasons were, I dont know, but I do know Debbie well enough to know her intentions would have been good and honourable. I think it is exemplary that she wanted to actually help, even though I myself had my doubts as to the authenticity of Mark. But I am an internet sceptic and never take anything at face value.
But I do take Debbie at face value, she is more than an internet nickname, and all this talk of spying and "rewards" is absolutely ridiculous.
I myself emailed her for news of what happened, and i actually got far less than was posted on Egypt Talk. Debbie was discreet, even with me.

quote:

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Originally posted by elmagnoon:

Dalbitchi, How are you..lol, still sticking with your bitchi sisters...blind as always

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quote:

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Originally posted by Laura:
Generally people who come into posts and add comments like this and have never participated in this forum before under this name usually have another screen name but are cowards to use it....haha

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Have a wonderful day yourself.

quote:

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Originally posted by jaguar:
Mark, the Hero:
1-I don't Believe you
2-I don't trust your story.
3-Good luck.

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You know what Jag? It doesn't matter. I, and a few others know the truth and if you don't want to, it doesn't matter.

Thank you Pololo.... have fun on your trip. Talk soon.

quote:

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Originally posted by Debbie:
You know what Jag? It doesn't matter. I, and a few others know the truth and if you don't want to, it doesn't matter.

Thank you Pololo.... have fun on your trip. Talk soon.

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What trip? Isn't he home

If you really want to read anything into it, read that he and I are now friends. No more, no less.

quote:

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Originally posted by Debbie:
Geez Louise Homesick. That was just a comment to say as much as have a nice day. Don't read more into it than that. It is NOT code for "the eagle lands tonight" or anything. OK? Get over your bad self.

If you really want to read anything into it, read that he and I are now friends. No more, no less.

I guess I better go back to NOT posting anymore. Every bloody thing I write gets misinterpreted by someone.

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Every time someone writes Debbie is a Spy, it climbs up a notch on google search, when you search for " debbie spy " and egypt, like for example you can search for " egypt debbie spy " or " spy egypt debbie " or " egypt spy debbie " you would come up on the second page.
If you combine " debbie is a spy " with egypt and then add pololo you come up as the first result...just experiementing

quote:

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Originally posted by Debbie:
Geez Louise Homesick. That was just a comment to say as much as have a nice day. Don't read more into it than that. It is NOT code for "the eagle lands tonight" or anything. OK? Get over your bad self.

If you really want to read anything into it, read that he and I are now friends. No more, no less.

I guess I better go back to NOT posting anymore. Every bloody thing I write gets misinterpreted by someone.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Debbie:
Geez Louise Homesick. That was just a comment to say as much as have a nice day. Don't read more into it than that. It is NOT code for "the eagle lands tonight" or anything. OK? Get over your bad self.

If you really want to read anything into it, read that he and I are now friends. No more, no less.

I guess I better go back to NOT posting anymore. Every bloody thing I write gets misinterpreted by someone.

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quote:

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Originally posted by jaguar:
Debbie.. Why are you getting too sensitive about the whole thing?? I didn't mention you at all in my post, besides, I believe the rescue part of the story. What I don't believe nor trust were the intentions of out great Mr. Mark.
I am sure it was a fun adventure for him that ended up that way.
For all Egyptians who sat om their BUM doing nothing for saving the Hero.. remember Mohamed Latif?? Thanking Modeer el amn, and el Nezaam and all that stuff.. well, Mr. Mark did the same. Not so sure if he produced saliva (both sides of lips) like our late Mr. Latif.

[This message has been edited by jaguar (edited 04 May 2004).]

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Laura

I can understand why they are skeptical. Basically, what informant is trying to do in any country is to persuade the other fellow to betray his country, to commit a crime, and to run the risk of severe penalty. That's informant’s job. An informant is often present under false identity. If they spy for Israel for instance - of course they will speak the most evil things against Jews- always trying to make contacts with other people because that's their job. Within days the person-informant is being deluged with invitations to dinner parties, cocktail parties, swimming parties etc because they are so 'nice'. It is almost inconceivable that a trained and otherwise reliable agent would do such a thing as smuggling a person without the consulting his (hers) controllers. That would seriously compromise him (her) as an agent; however they are not perfect so they make mistakes.

In this 'Pololo story' - to make matters worse one man who participated in attempt to smuggle a complete stranger posted everything in details. I doubt that a person simply persuade others to commit a crime 'just' to help a stranger. This act involved risking safety of two drivers knowing they have no drivers' license, and giving them alcohol and maps. Later on, expressing dissatisfaction in humorous way how these two guys were incompetent to perform the job but at least they ‘distracted police’. If you would decide to cross the border and arrange the rescue, would you offer any money? Or would you simply say, thank you and disappear from their life? There is no doubt; the money was involved in this transaction. You can call it gift, donation, or simply reward – it was promised to be given at the time of arrangement to the person who organized it. The maps were provided. This was mediated before it actually happened. Who would think of maps and alcohol? In addition, it is clear in the postings that two men were considered in some way as ‘not competent enough’ because they have not done exactly what was expected.

Mark is obviously native Arabic speaker living somewhere in Europe and operating in the Middle East. Now you can call his adventures a 'play' or 'heroic event' yet he had been forced to escape from Israel – and could not enter the Egypt legally. What exactly he has been doing there is still unclear. When Mark went ahead, crossed Egyptian border anyway and when arrested, he probably protested that he had no idea where he was and if there were any problems, the military base commander could call and check him out. If he did not have any documents they would not indeed got Mark off the hook. Maybe Mark has not been arrested neither stopped by border patrol. If he had been - he had a false identification and probably paid them money. Mark still did not say why he could not cross the Egyptian border legally? This seems to be an issue. In conclusion, if he was let off the hook, it was because of deception certainly not because of the truth. That is still illegal. To deceive the government, to illegally cross the border, to aid, to help, to organize, to traffic, and to smuggle the people. Authorities are only people who can legally decide who can cross the border and who can't. No foreigner can interfere in government job and aid, help, smuggle or organize trafficking of anyone without proper documents and background-check for the safety of the country. That is what National Security is for.

Mark and Debbie continued to use their expert mix of truth and deception to convince the Egyptians that he was really a nice guy. Illegally crossing the Egyptian border and smuggling people is not a crime. In fact, that's something 'noble'. People who were participating in this scenario are in fact 'Saints'. All others who use common sense and don't fall for illogical persuasions are in fact insane with bad motives and dirty minds because how can't they understand that 'helping' is actually 'great' even if it's against the law not to mention against the security of your country!! These people deserve a medal for being criminals. So as to avoid wasting time - mine and ours - it would be best if brave heroes confessed fully all and send the email of their activities to Mubahath el-Dawla with subject line pls. forward to Mr. Omar Suleiman and get the personal medal for achievement and their Hero acts. I am sure Mr. Omar Suleiman would be very happy to hear about these 'heroic' adventures – and encourage them do it again in the future.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jason:
So as to avoid wasting time - mine and ours - it would be best if brave heroes confessed fully all and send the email of their activities to Mubahath el-Dawla with subject line pls. forward to Mr. Omar Suleiman and get the personal medal for achievement and their Hero acts. I am sure Mr. Omar Suleiman would be very happy to hear about these 'heroic' adventures – and encourage them do it again in the future.

[This message has been edited by Jason (edited 05 May 2004).]

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Man how many Ra2fat el-haggan reruns have you watched?

Did you ever consider writing novels? You have a highly imaginative mind and quite a bit of spare time, so that's not a bad idea. Seriously I am not being sarcastic, try writing a short thriller or something.

I admire your very indepth analysis of this whole situation, regardless if you are right or wrong.

Just a question though, how did you come across this thread?

i really dont understand whats going on!!!

but i`ll read the whole topic and search for the anther forum to know what`s going on cuz it seems that the topic envolved stuff my country`s boards wit Occupied lands(isreal)!