Do u even realize how costly it is to marry an Egyptian girl? In Egypt, a dowery
for an Arab girl, just what he gives her up front is at the lowest LE 50,000.
and if she is well educated, and has something special about her, it can
run much, much higher.

Then he has to bring her Jewlery, which should be a gift, but the bride and
the family demand a certain amount, the cheapest I heard demanded ws LE 10,000.

Then there is mu'akhar, what he still owes her. That can be LE 50,000.

A young guy and I repeat it a young guy
(who just graduated three or four yrs ago) just like those guys in Sharm, has to sell his clothes to marry an Egyptian if his parents are not able to help him, so he ends up marrying or at least trying with a western or let us generalize and say foreign girl, who asks for a little (again to some extent), because she was raised to cooperate with her mate, and not treat him like he owes her.

Before we start blaming Russian, foreign, Arab issues, let's look at the corruption of marriages in our society, and find a solution
of how we may be able to change the way people think about it.

I think the Arab girls and Egyptain girls are spoiled, and if they only marry
for money and gold then the marries will not work are both will live a lie with each other.
And not be happy all the rest of their lives. If Egyptian girls want Egyptian
men to marry them they have to change the way they think!!

If a young guy stepped forwared and asked an
Egyptian girl for marriage , the first qustion she will ask him " Do you have your own car?, I belive most of the egyptian females want to live a fancy life like
those they see in TV, they do not realise how hard life is , some of those young guys will end up thinking that marriage is a luxury!, and one of my freinds said to me
"if you want to drink a glass of milk, you do not have to buy a cow!!"

Anyone wants to tackel why Egyptian women and men can't get married anymore?

yES, THEY are marrying late -- after the age of 30 -- and not because of any choice of their own.

The number of Egyptian men and women who have never been married has reached 8.98 million, out of which 32 per cent are men and 21 per cent are women, stated a 1996 demographic survey published in the Annual Statistics Book for June 2000.

These numbers may not seem huge in comparison with Egypt's total population of 67 million people. However, they represent an increase in comparison with the past, in a society that considers the family as the social nucleus, marriage after 30 is considered very late. The socially acceptable age for marriage is the early 20s for women and late 20s for men.

Social pressure can become so unbearable that a woman will marry anyone just to get rid of peoples' suspicious looks and relieve her family, social constraints are enhanced by economic factors.

Young Egyptian women and men from middle- class families are further victimised by superficial and expensive marriage traditions, the upper class does not face financial constraints, while the lower classes don't cling to marriage traditions they cannot afford and can get married with the least expenses.

Egyptian women are always afraid. Once they become 25, they start panicking about getting married. If they are engaged, they become afraid of breaking off the engagement. After marriage, they fear divorce and giving birth.

As for young men, ok I agrre with U that all the above mentioned facts led to what happening in Sharm, and Hurgada.

What happens in Sharm and Hurghada I think has no relevance to marriage issues in general. As far as I can remember, most hotel employees were young, not from Sharm, living all together somewhere in a place paid by the company like chicken in a farm, without wives or girlfriends, and looking at naked women all day. What can you expect?

Anyway if I was a young Egyptian woman I would not marry anyone working in Sharm or Hurghada, that's for sure.

Especially since one can safely assume the owners of Delta Sharm, 1001 Nights Palace and other such places are already married LOL

When I got the ring I was admiring it and saying it was just like an Egyptian woman would wear (it is silver) he said no an egyptian woman would have insisted on a gold ring. It was not until this thread came up i realised the significance of what he said.

Actually mahr and shabka differs from one class to another and from family to
another ,it depends on the traditions of the family,so i will try to help u in
this ,I am gonna to talk on a middle class and high middle class as a
category.some people belonging to this class is paying maher and shabkah
together from 45 till 50 thousand pounds,and they pay this at the time of
engagmenet.

I do believe that the shabka depends on the social status of the bride and mainly of the groom, coz he is the one who is gonna
pay!!!!

As for those guys in Sharm, U R right about their work, life, but may be they do like that with foreign women because they want to live their lifes, date, love, and probably make sex, but because all such old things and traditions they are not able to do so.
And that is the reason of running after foreign women, just having only sex in their minds.

I can understand that Egyptians want to have a nice big wedding, have everything ready for a new couple, home has to be complete with all the furniture and so on. But in the same time I feel sad, that then it will be so difficult to marry someone. It is not easy for a man there!!!!

Why can´t it be more simple weddings, and then when they are together you can
build your home piece by piece as the money comes......

I´m thinking especially of my friends here, who got married there. One of them had a nice wedding, bought a nice flat, not too big, but filled it with furniture.
Then she got pregnent, and I don´t know where they made a room for the child
because the flat was already full. And after a while they immigrated to
Australia....

I mean, all the efford and money they put to the flat they left, why does it
have to be so perfect with everything.....why does it have to cost so much to marry somebody. That a couple love each other must be the most important
thing.....then all the other things will follow.....

I know that many don´t think there like this, but I like being simple.

Traditionally, Egyptians believed that the ring finger has the "vein amoris", the vein of love, which runs straight to the heart.

Although I live in USA since too many years, but am originally raised in upper Egypt.

The lifestyle in Upper Egypt differs a lot from urban areas, such as Cairo. However, there are similarities to other rural areas, as well. The main reasons for the lifestyle differences are: not being exposed to foreign cultures, the small number of places of entertainment such as TV and movies that show outside influences, and the conservative traditions. The marriage customs best illustrate the typical lifestyle of the Upper Egyptian culture.

No Dating: Having a chance to meet or to choose a bride is quite difficult in Upper Egypt due to many reasons. First, the society does not allow boys and girls to associate (to meet or hang out) with each other. Second, the places where people can meet freely do not exist. As a result, people adapted their own ways for choosing a bride. One of those ways is called a "match-maker". A match-maker can only be an old woman who knows all the families. She can arrange marriages between two families.

Marriage has special importance to the Egyptian people. They consider marriage as the most important event in their lives because it provides them with a moral way to satisfy psychological and biological needs. Egyptians assume marriage is the main method to protect youth from any illegitimate relationships; moreover, marriage reinforces society's relationships. There is no doubt that marriage customs indicate the society's culture, behavioral patterns, thoughts and feelings. Now let us examine some Egyptian marriage customs in the past and present.

Usually, marriage starts by the suitor's parents visiting to his fiancée’s house to get her family approval. Once the suitor is accepted, an agreement is the next step. This agreement contains two main items: an amount of money, called mahr, paid by suitor to his fiancée’s family in order to help them preparing the furniture of their daughter and a valuable jewelry gift, called shabka, given by the suitor to his fiancée. The value of this gift depends on the financial and social levels of the suitor’s family. When the two parties complete the agreement, they fix an appointment for the engagement party. Most of relatives and friends attend the party in one of the banquet halls, usually decorated with several kinds of flowers and lights. The fiancée wears a blue or pink engagement dress, which is assumed to be simpler than the wedding dress.

Then, the groom puts a ring on the finger of his fiancée, which is a symbol of everlasting love. In addition, the groom gives his fiancée the valuable gift of jewelry that they had agreed upon before. Usually, the engagement period is long because the preparation of the new house is costly and beyond the means of the couple or their parents. Thus, when their house is ready, the two families fix an appointment for the wedding party. The night before the wedding day, relatives and friends get together to celebrate "The Henna Night", where women dance and sing all night while the bride wears a pink dress made of silk or cotton, and her hands and feet are dyed with henna. In fact, not all families still care to celebrate such an old traditional style of marriage that it is mostly dominant among the lower classes.

The next day, the marriage contract is signed and registered by the m’athoon, a man who has an official license to sign and register the marriage contract, or the priest with the attendance of the couple and most of their families and friends. This happens in the bride’s house or at a mosque. After sunset, the wedding party starts with the bride wearing a white dress with a white wedding veil while the groom is wearing a black formal suit with white shirt and necktie. In the hotel the couple walks among their invitees from the entrance of the hotel to their seats while a music band is walking in front of them playing special songs called zafah songs.

Now tell me all Egyptian women out there, where is this young man who is just graduated or just started his career who is able to buy all such expensive gifts?

If am still in Egypt, I will only make as Akshar and buy a silver ring (this is ok for Moslems as they don't like gold).

Allk foreign women out there, please forgive those guys in Sharm, they are looking for sex coz the marriage is impossible for them.

Regards

i know that many families care about this procedures, but not like that.. anyway regarding to our bad economic life, most families understanding now..
and the idea about marriage just for SEX is wrong idea !! i guess just the non educated maybe think like that, but when we marry, we study the other part, yeah study it to check if we will be able to countinu forever, and if we will able to build a good and strong family all the memebr inside it respect the other part just for love, not for anythin' else..
and people who work in sharm and hurghada most of them didn't has a high level of educations.. also the foreigners girls there, they looking for a sex too, and when she found how nice to live in Egypt and how is egyptian so kind and sweet people and how they adore women, she try to hunt a guy for herself.

but whatever u wrote adoula, i'm agree with u in many points.. but i just wanna let u know thats not the base, it's just the expection
and the most of egyptian girls act so nice like Akshar with her husband, beleive me, i saw many marriages and i know how the 2 families try to help each other without caring about money.. just to build a good and nice family..

I understand the pain Egyptian men must be going through .. Actually as per our Egyptian tradition, this type and amount of jewelry usually called "Shabka" which is jewelry given to the girl upon agreement of marriage.

Western women can be too closed to her man before marriage but to marry an Arab girl in a conservative society is like opening a surprise package they don't know what's in it.
Then comes to problem of finding out that this is not what I needed cause 1 or 2 hours of meeting isn't good enough. Of course am not talking about urban areas, but mostly about upper Egypt, also am talking about marriage through khatba, and family marriage.

And sometimes its woman's fault, a white women (cause she already knows the man before marriage) isn't shy and isn't giving him the respect but just being friends with the person she will marry, on the other hand Egyptian girl would give her man lots of respect the first few months before she gets attached to her after this she wasn't to be friendly with him, which isn't possible then cause he has already got used to the fact that she is suppose to respect her.

It is true of course, that whenever we girls get together we talk about guys.

I was thinking about putting up a big billboard in Tahrir Square to advertise for the man of my dreams, I personally don't need these stuff of shabka and mahr, but it is my family who insist on this.

I might be biased by my personal preferences, granted, but it's obvious that women these days much as they fail to understand many of the workings of the male mind, are not particularly attracted to the stereotypical image of the gentleman, much as it is difficult to come across one to begin with. We're just not looking for them anymore. We just want decent, kind, caring men.

wish you all the best.

I have something to say:

A wedding in a western society is about a man and a woman starting a life together and is often done under God’s will. But weddings in Africa are seen more like a way of combining two families together. Even though the African societies have different ways of looking at wedding and marriages they still is constantly influenced by the western society and it has become clearer these latest years.

In some rich African families they conduct two weddings, one in the traditional style and one influenced by the modern Western cultures. In many African countries wedding customs are changing radically, some couples are even going as far as to "court" themselves and some couples become husband and wife through a situation similar to our common law arrangement. This can be due to the fact that Africa is becoming overpopulated and western countries seem to have an increased influence on the African people.

Old and new weddings and customs are changing and adjusting and are becoming more and more like our western wedding traditions.

May be I don't know the reality, but according to my inderstanding many Egyptian women enter the world of marriage at an early age specially in poor areas and upper Egypt.

In Egypt it is really common to marry your own cousin because of the blood- relation except in Cairo, where a different arrangement is settled.

Marriage-arrangements for couples in Cairo are really interesting. When a man starts to look for a wife his mother or other close female relatives help him to find his bride, or he can seek help from a female khatbah or matchmaker. These female representatives do all in their power to find a suitable and nice bride for the groom.

Now not to go away from the original topic, am fully agree with Adoula that life became so hard, hard for women as it is hard for men, hard for Egyptian men to save money in their early life and buy this shabka, and hard for Egyptian women to wait for her Prince for a 35 yrs or may be more.

Hey Egyptians make life easy, and try to understand eachother better.

God bless U all.

Anyway, marriage is a day we dream about from the time we are little girls until the day a ring is slipped on our finger. But we tell ourselves that we marry for love and that love has no boundaries, so we no longer have to marry someone of a certain class or background.

This may be true, but there are still restrictions regarding who can be legally married. If two men or two women are in love, they cannot be legally married if their families will not agree.

And most families in Egypt still insist on mahr and Shabka.

Everyone like getting married at a young age. I think that's why America's divorce rate is extremely high. Females want security and the men want unlimited sex.

We need to think about marriage as a commitment and not as a job. It's supposed to about love and dreams. People need to be a bit more realistic when it comes to love. Everyone wants a romance from tv (The Best Man, Love & football) We need to open our eyes and see things how they are and not what they apare to be. Love and Marriage cannot be rushed it's destiny.

Bye

Men these days do not want a traditional marriage relationship. Ninety-nine percent of young men state they would not tolerate "a lazy woman who stays at home and does not earn her keep by having a job outside the home."

I tried marriages, but they failed. The sex was good, but it couldn’t hold the marriages together. I didn’t have a man to support me long-term financially. Good that Egyptian men do.......lol

I beleive that maturity is very important for marriage to last forever, every time I read of the devastating impact of divorce on children, part of me cries out that the impact of living with an uncaring, impersonal, negative and critical father can be far more damaging than living apart from him as a single parent dedicated to providing a positive, interactive relationship with the children.

Clearly, we need to teach young people to behave as good human beings, and not like animals, and let them know they possess the God-given ability to develop purity of heart, mind and soul. For it is because we truly love others that we must remain pure until giving of ourselves lovingly and selflessly within the sacrament of marriage. By remaining pure until marriage, we never will have to feel guilty about past indiscretions, nor will we have to feel ashamed of looking into the eyes of our husbands and wives. If we were unfaithful to our spouses before marriage, will we possess the strength and nobility of mind, spirit and character to remain faithful to them after marriage?

Take care.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20020121/egypt.html

The rual weddings in Upper Egypt,and Baladi weddings in Cairo are quite like the one in antiquity. Just shows you that many Ancient Egyptian customs are still withing Egypt,but many donot know.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jolanta:
Men these days do not want a traditional marriage relationship. Ninety-nine percent of young men state they would not tolerate "a lazy woman who stays at home and does not earn her keep by having a job outside the home."

---

Does it mean that women don't have to stay at home for years after having a baby? And if she goes back to work, who takes care of children? Nursery schools, grandparents, etc?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aaliyah:
Does it mean that women don't have to stay at home for years after having a baby? And if she goes back to work, who takes care of children? Nursery schools, grandparents, etc?

(Sorry if it's offtopic, I'd just like to know)

---

hi aaliyah!
finally someone has spoken it out! ur question is not offtopic at all, but it is top-topic 4 me and 4 sure for many other women as well. lately i had a discussion about this with my sister in law. in my opinion lots of women are really able to success in a job and being a housewife only is unsatisfying- like 4 me. but she was right: what to do with the kids? how can i be satisfied when i dont have any more time 4 them?
well, in this moment i´m not talking about the husband, who will miss many things ,too, when the woman is working- khalaas ba2a, he has to understand this-
but the kids!!!!
they will come home from school not finding anyone opening them the door. they will need to eat not finding anyone making 4 them a meal.... and when the woman comes back from work, she will be in a big big hurry, finishing all her duties, becoz she will get no help from her husband of course.
poor those, who HAVE to work becoz they NEED the money!

Soraya Altorki, is now a professor of anthropology at the American University in Cairo.

In Egypt, women account for 53 per cent of academic staff in Universities, 44 per cent staff in scientific and research organisations and 26 per cent of civil servants. There are two female cabinet ministers, and 33 female ambassadors.

Huda Shaarawi (1879-1947), a feminist nationalist activist, is considered by several Western scholars to be a central figure in early twentieth century Egyptian feminism.

Kassem Amin:- Played a key role in Egyptian women’s revolution during the Modern Age. He focused on the issues of freedom and education as he considered that women illiteracy hinder the effectuation of half of the population in all fields of work (commerce, industry, agriculture and arts) He advocated women empowerment to build a society and protect them and their homes from any corruption.

The education of women in particular is seen to be essential and necessary for the construction of the new society. Women comprise half of the total population, and their contribution to the nation building process is a must.

Modern education for women in the Arab world is of relatively recent origin. The first modern schools were opened in Egypt (1829)

The Egyptian government has recognized that investments in basic education for girls have among the highest returns of all economic development programs.

Educated women have fewer and healthier children, are more likely to send their children to school, have higher earnings and are more likely to participate in civic society and help protect their environment.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
The number of Egyptian men and women who have never been married has reached 8.98 million, out of which 32 per cent are men and 21 per cent are women, stated a 1996 demographic survey published in the Annual Statistics Book for June 2000

---

32 per cent are men
21 per cent are women
What about the remaining 47 per cent, please explain.

quote:

---

Originally posted by akshar:
That is a very interesting point you make.I have read in one guide book that Egyptian men are marring very late in life because they can not afford it. This is another reason why they are out after the tourists because they have no other legitimate means of satisfing their desires.

---

desires, desires, desires....all you ever think about are desires..

well, that's kinda unusual. i find most egyptian men in the states are mostly faithful (no, i'm not joking). american women/egyptian men pairings are quite rare in the u.s. if egyptian men bother to have other relationships, it's usually with americanized egyptian women or another related minority. just an observation.

quote:

---

Originally posted by akshar:
That is a very interesting point you make.I have read in one guide book that Egyptian men are marring very late in life because they can not afford it. This is another reason why they are out after the tourists because they have no other legitimate means of satisfing their desires.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adoula:
Hi all,
I have heard so much about Western vs. Egyptian, and those Egyptian guys from Sharm who say I love you to tourist girls, but no one, especially the Egyptians in this forum want to admit the big problem that they have created:
MAHR & SHABKA. the dowery, and the gold he's supposed to bring his bride.

Do u even realize how costly it is to marry an Egyptian girl? In Egypt, a dowery
for an Arab girl, just what he gives her up front is at the lowest LE 50,000.
and if she is well educated, and has something special about her, it can
run much, much higher.

Then he has to bring her Jewlery, which should be a gift, but the bride and
the family demand a certain amount, the cheapest I heard demanded ws LE 10,000.

Then there is mu'akhar, what he still owes her. That can be LE 50,000.

A young guy and I repeat it a young guy
(who just graduated three or four yrs ago) just like those guys in Sharm, has to sell his clothes to marry an Egyptian if his parents are not able to help him, so he ends up marrying or at least trying with a western or let us generalize and say foreign girl, who asks for a little (again to some extent), because she was raised to cooperate with her mate, and not treat him like he owes her.

Before we start blaming Russian, foreign, Arab issues, let's look at the corruption of marriages in our society, and find a solution
of how we may be able to change the way people think about it.

I think the Arab girls and Egyptain girls are spoiled, and if they only marry
for money and gold then the marries will not work are both will live a lie with each other.
And not be happy all the rest of their lives. If Egyptian girls want Egyptian
men to marry them they have to change the way they think!!

If a young guy stepped forwared and asked an
Egyptian girl for marriage , the first qustion she will ask him " Do you have your own car?, I belive most of the egyptian females want to live a fancy life like
those they see in TV, they do not realise how hard life is , some of those young guys will end up thinking that marriage is a luxury!, and one of my freinds said to me
"if you want to drink a glass of milk, you do not have to buy a cow!!"

Anyone wants to tackel why Egyptian women and men can't get married anymore?

---

if u have read the MORE EDUACTED women ask or are valued for MORE Shabka....

so education has nuffin to do wid it:P

Akshar,
Perhaps not in most cases. When my my husband ( British ) and I decided to get married, we planned to save every bit of our hard earned money for our first home's deposite.

The simple ring was a gift from my sister and the would have been a wedding party's expenses were put aside as well.
A simple family dinner and a trip to Sweizerland was IT.
My sister followed the same path and so did our cousin.

The mahr in our family tradition is converted into furniture and kitchen appliances never gold rings.

The main reason for the rising population of old maids and spensters ( ? ) in Egypt is the wave of conservative fashion- dare I say.