posted
I would like to show you this by Aubrey Whitehouse so you can know how we feel about God we do believe that God is one also.
To the Muslim, the doctrine of the Trinity is both absurd and blasphemous. The Muslim’s daily prayers include a verse from the Qur’an which asserts, “He is God [Allah] the One and Only, God the eternal, He begetteth not, nor is He begotten, and there is none like unto Him” (Q. 112). The One God is eternally one and cannot change. The matter is as simple as denying that 3 = 1 or 1 = 3.
This perspective comes from the very roots of Islam. Islam came into being in a pagan, polytheistic society, and it was against this background that Muhammad proclaimed “there is only one God” - one God as opposed to the many gods and goddesses of the pagans.
In other words, the emphasis was mathematical, and it remains so today. When Muslims think of the unity of God, they think in terms of mathematics. ‘One’ can never be anything but ‘one’. It is indivisible.
With such understanding of the unity of God, it is perfectly logical to reject the idea of the Trinity. It is neither good sense nor good theology.
In contrast, the Muslim position appears simple and uncomplicated: “There is no god but God”. This statement, which forms the first part of the Muslim creed (the second is “Muhammad is the Apostle of God”), is called by Muslim theologians nafi wa ithbat, “the negation and the affirmation”. The first part, “There is no god”, is grammatically an absolute negative. The second part, “but God”, is the affirmation.
So far Christians and Muslims are on common ground. No Christian should have any hesitation in agreeing the the nafi wa ithbat. We too affirm that God is One. Where we differ from the Muslim is on the interpretation of the unity and nature of the One who we both assert is the solitary, unique and only God.
It is against this background that we seek to explain to the Muslim an understanding of the unity of God based on the Christian scriptures.
Why should the Muslim listen to such an argument? For two reasons.
Firstly, the Muslim takes a similar position of the Christian in regard to the centrality of revelation: any true teaching must be based on what the scriptures (for the Muslim, the Qur’an and the Traditions of the Prophet) have to say. Consequently, in any discussion of doctrine with a Muslim, the starting point must be revelation. We have no argument or authority for the concept of the Trinity except that which is contained in the revealed word of God.
Even more importantly, the Qur’an itself, while claiming to be God’s final revelation, bears unequivocal testimony to the validity of the Christian scriptures as a positive revelation from God which the Qur’an was sent to confirm: “He [God] has sent down upon thee [Muhammad] the Book [Qur’an] with the truth, confirming what was before it, and He sent down the Torah [Old Testament] and the Gospel aforetime” (Q. 3:2). We are therefore justified in expecting the Muslim to accept the testimony of our scriptures.
The place to begin is with what the Christian scriptures say about the unity of God. There is no clearer statement of this than Moses’ great affirmation in Deuteronomy 6:4: “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.”
Centuries later, when Christ was involved in a discussion with the Jewish leaders over which was the most important of the Mosaic laws, he said, “The most important one is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one’” (Mark 12:29). So Christ himself confirmed that God is one. Still later, when the Christian church came into being, one of its greatest leaders, Paul, was inspired to write, “We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one” (1 Corinthians 8:4).
So far we are still on common ground. But where the Qur’an amplifies the unity of God by emphasising his eternity, the Gospel, while still asserting the eternity of the one God, lays emphasis on another fact - that God is Love. Not merely loving, but Love. In other words, Love is as much a description of God as is his eternity.
Now if God is Love - Love in himself as a description of his being - we cannot think of him in merely mathematical terms. For love requires a relationship: there must be a lover and a beloved, otherwise love has no meaning. Moreover since God is eternal, this relationship must also be eternal, for God, by definition does not change.
We can take this one step further. This One Eternal God - whose name is Love and whose nature is expressed in love - also communicates with the people he has created. He does this not only through a revealed book, a written word, but also through a person - Jesus the Christ.
Both the Qur’an and the Gospel designate Jesus “the Word of God”. The Qur’an says, “Christ Jesus the son of Mary was an Apostle of God and His Word . . . and a Spirit proceeding from Him” (Q. 4:171). In the Gospel we find that this Word of God is eternal and therefore none other than a revelation of God himself: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1). The Gospel continues: “The Word became flesh [i.e. took a human form] and made his dwelling among us” (John 1:14). That was the mystery behind the virgin birth of Jesus Christ, to which the Qur’an testifies (Q. 3:45-51). When Jesus Christ, the Word of God, commenced his public ministry, God bore testimony to the unique relationship of Love which had existed eternally in the being of God. In order to make this relationship intelligible to human beings, he expressed it in terms that all people everywhere at all times would understand: the relationship of parent to child. When the Voice came from heaven introducing Christ the Word of God, it said, “This is my beloved Son”.
Later, Jesus made a statement about himself that was either true or so blasphemous that he deserved to die for it. When his disciples asked him to show them the Father (God) he replied, “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9).
So the conclusion that we must draw from the Gospel record is that this one who was known by some as the Prophet Jesus, and who is described in both the Gospel and the Qur’an as the Word of God, is a revelation of God himself to the world. This is all summed up in what might be called the Christian equivalent of the Muslim nafi wa ithbat: “No-one has ever seen God [negation] but God the only Son . . . has made him known [affirmation]” (John 1:18).
But there is yet another dimension to this eternal relationship in the being of the one and only God. The communication of God to humankind through Christ, the Word of God, did not cease when Christ was taken up into heaven. God still communicates with humanity, and that brings us to the statement in the Qur’an that Jesus was “aided by the Holy Spirit” (Q. 2:253).
Who is this “Holy Spirit”? We are obviously meant to think of him as a person and not simply as an influence. Moreover, as a person who aided Christ, he could not have been someone of a lesser stature. He must therefore also be eternal and hence, by definition, God.
When we turn to the Gospel according to John, we find Jesus, just before his death, telling his disciples that although he was about to leave them, the presence of God would not leave them. The Holy Spirit who had “aided” him, and whom their natural eyes could not see - would remain with them. The implication: the Holy Spirit is as truly God as are the Father and Jesus the Son (John 15:26).
Again, after Christ had died and risen again, he appeared to his disciples and commissioned them to go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature. They were to baptise new believers “In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19). Significantly, Christ did not say “in the names” but “in the name”. The three “persons”, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, have one name - God - and hence one eternal being.
So it was Jesus Christ himself - the one who held that the most important commandment was “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one” - who first spelled out the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. The eternal God, whose name is Love, exists eternally in the unity of three “persons” - Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
That, briefly, is what the word of God in the Gospel has to say of the Trinity. Does the Qur’an have anything to say directly on the subject?
It does, in two places. First, in Sura 5:76, it states: “They are unbelievers who say God is the third of three. No God is there but one God”. Then, in the same chapter (5:119), God addresses Jesus: “And when God said ‘O Jesus son of Mary, didst thou say unto man take me and my mother as gods apart from God?’ He [Jesus] said, ‘To thee be the glory [i.e. God forbid] it is not mine to say what I have no right to’.”
Both of these quotations seem to deny the doctrine outright. But closer examination makes it clear the Qur’an is not actually addressing the matter of the Trinity. Rather, it is accusing Christians of holding a doctrine of tri-theism (belief in three Gods). Christians have never held this, and the Bible never teaches it. When the Qur’an says that those who hold such a doctrine are unbelievers, we agree.
Further, when the Qur’an spells out in detail what it asserts Christians believe - that the Trinity consists of God the Father, Jesus and Mary - Jesus is understood to categorically deny this belief. With that we also agree. As we have seen, what Jesus taught about the Trinity had not the remotest resemblance to what the Qur’an states some of Christ’s followers were purported to be saying.
The conclusion of the matter is this: both the Muslim and the Christian hold that God is One, but the Christian understands that this unity is the unity of Love. When Christians pronounce a blessing in the name of “God Almighty, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit” they are speaking in the name of the one and only true God.
Contrary to what you might think, the trinity is seldom the greatest stumbling block to a Muslim becoming a Christian. There are many converts from Islam - just as there are many believers from a Christian background - who have a very hazy idea of what the doctrine is about, but who nonetheless are truly born again and whose lives bear eloquent testimony to their faith in Christ.
This does not mean we should neglect the Trinity when explaining the Gospel to Muslims, but it does mean we do not have to make understanding it an indispensable condition of saving faith. While our own grasp of truth should be clear, our presentation of it to the Muslim should be neither too complicated nor over-simplified. We should always be able to give a reason for the faith we profess.
posted
dear W.O.C. you often post quotes by other people to illustrate your views but why dont you join in the forums and give us your own ideas? the people on in this forum seem to me to be of different faiths all trying to learn and respect each other. why are you not happy to live within your own faith and let others do the same. there are plenty of threads here that speak of different ideas, different cultures and ways of living. why dont you post your ideas here? if you have a burning desire to convert people then get to know them, share your ideas and show by example they will come to you if they want just as somone wanting to convert to islam will be drawn to others of that faith. please dont shout at us with quotes from others, we want to get to know people and celebrate the diffrences and learn by kindness and rational argument. you will see if you engage with us that some folk do change their views. i am not a follower of islam or christianity but have total respect for thoes that do, indeed i have respect for all faiths. so bring your faith, and i am glad for you that it is so strong, and join in other threads and thank God for the freedom to do so and for the wonderful diversity that makes this world so beautiful much love kay X
Posts: 128 | From: uk | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Well done Kayinlove I think most people reading this forum would agree with you - I certainly do. Peace and understanding to all.
Posts: 100 | From: uk | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Your qur'an is not of God, your religion robs Jesus of the Cross. you have another Jesus which is not the one I worship. Jesus died for you
The Message of the Cross
Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Matthew 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: 28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Matthew 26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. 27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Matthew 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. 53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be? 55 In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me. 56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.
Mark 8:29 And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ. 30 And he charged them that they should tell no man of him. 31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
Luke 18:. 31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. 32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: 33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms,concerning me. 45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 2:18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
John 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. 28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
Revelation 22:. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end[/B[B]], the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and [Edited Out]mongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Please understand Satan doesn't want you to know that there was a sacrifice made for sins, please come to Jesus, accept his free gift.
posted
man ! why r u insisting on making me nervous everytime i read something for u , why don't u read the message that i am not intrested about what u r writting , not because i don't have proofs to what u r making , but because i don't give a BS about convincing such a personality like u ,and i guess this Forum is not for what u r pplanning to do , so don't frustrat me with big words , cuz i know exactly ur intentions, and i don't care for anything u do , in fct i am not going to open anything u add, ( i am trying to be the most polite i can)
quote:Originally posted by WarriorofChrist: Your qur'an is not of God, your religion robs Jesus of the Cross. you have another Jesus which is not the one I worship. Jesus died for you
posted
I haven't finished the whole link yet,, but, so far, you seem to have amused lots of those guys there. OK..Jesus died for you, What has it got to do with me??
Posts: 477 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
And you think that by posting on the net, people will follow your beliefs? How many converted after you cut and pasted a few posts, here and there?
Give me facts and figures with solid proof!
quote:Originally posted by WarriorofChrist: That has alot to do with you, your sins can be forgiven, Jesus was the sacrificial lamb for all mens sins.
He came to set Captivity Captive, to give sight to those who are blind.
You can have a relationship with God No longer are man seperated from God because of sin, Jesus made a way.
Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
posted
If any turn to Jesus only God knows im not on a mission to get converts, my mission is to spread the news. I am doing Gods work I want to plant seeds to tell them of Jesus
Posts: 13 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Don't Stop..Go and answer those lads (click your link above) and defend God. I am amazed- you didn't even reply to any of these posts, that I very much doubt even a fanatic would write anything like that about Jesus. C&P 1-I feel sorry for Jesus, sacrificed by his own father, without any choice in the matter (well I would if I believed the stories). Certainly not a family I want to get involved with.
2-Jesus was the biggest mistake in the middle East and in the History of Mankind
posted
WarriorofChrist.. you are driving me to the point where I am just about to destry Barclay James Harvest's CDs Posts: 477 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Don't Stop..Go and answer those lads (click your link above) and defend God. I am amazed- you didn't even reply to any of these posts, that I very much doubt even a fanatic would write anything like that about Jesus.
I have nothing elseo to say to them, I gave them the message, it's up to them and God God does not need to be defended. God can defend himself
posted
loooooooool just by reading all ur replies i was laughing u said all i wanted to say warrorcrist ur a joker it's like ur a living in another world the way ur writing and just one tip for u there is another person here who agrees with u thats if ur not the same person his name is ahmed kahan he says the same things aswell i mean not says but copies and pasts two so u might exchange views with him coz u make a great team. u can change the world and make it a better place for us and tacke over evil ( by the way i am being socasting if u havn't noticed ) with all my respect to all the reulgions out here don't u think that warriocrist is tacking it a bite two fare by trying to convert people can't u just leave people alone with their own belives. oh yeah one more tip the people are not going to bother reading what u copied and pasted coz its two long so that peole can follow u try to make it a bite shorter and good luck converting people. loooolz
Posts: 33 | From: london | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Monica: Good for you man! but...
Your 'cut and paste' posts are way too long!
Have pity!!!!
Personally, I'll die another day
Totally agree with u monica..
do u remember the Egyptian guy who was seeking, friendship or dating, so he used the paste philosophy in all the forum sections in a way which made all members here feel sick ...his end was in a small hospital for mental retarded guys..
So warrior, u will follow that guy soon with a small exception, they will make u a wooden sword which u can use it as a tooth brush
posted
I have to admit, Warrior, you do make me smile, may God transform your efforts and beliefing into a Jahadi of Islam, Amin.
At the same time I would like to remind all the Muslims in here, that none of us is better that the other except for degrees of our taqwa. Maybe one day God will let Warrior come to embrace Islam as his religion and when he does, he might be much better in front of Allah than any of us. Remember, he would be without sin like a newborn baby, and all his bad deeds would be recorded as multiples of good deeds - and what about our balance of good and bad deeds?
Don't judge and don't be arrogant, for God alone knows what is in our hearts.
posted
I am without sin, Jesus paid the price for my sins. I do not believe I am better than you, we are all sinners in need of a savior, the reason I am here is to tell you the savior has come, lived a perfect life and died for you at Calvary and on the third day he rose again, conquering death. Jesus was that savior, now our sins can be forgiven.
Once I accept the sacrifice made by Jesus and ask forgiveness I am liek a new born baby, no sin is in me God will not see it, its been paid for by Jesus.
How is having corcern for you, because you need Jesus Christ in your life to cleanse you of sin being arrogant and judging ?
posted
Oh Warrior, in your rage you completely overlooked that I was talking to my fellow Muslims in the Forum, and not to you.
We have Jesus (alehi salam) in our lives, and all the other prophets of God also, without believing in all of them, we are not Muslims.
I have one question for you to think about: are you not afraid of dying? If you think you'll go straight to paradise and that your soul will not be judged for your good and bad deeds by the one God that created you, you should be longing to die, right?
But if you are afraid of death, and what might happen to you afterwards... you'll need to re-evaluated what you're saying
posted
dear warrior in your last post you say "I am without sin" you then go on to say "we are all sinners" this got me thinking what i wish to ask is how can Jesus have died for my sins so long before i was born?
In acepting that my sins have already been paid for then I can do anything without fear???????
my tendancy is to belive at the moment that i am resposable for my own 'sins' it is my responibility to atone to whoever i have offended and my duty to try not to offend anyone
Q. if a man lives a good and respectful life in every way but does not subscribe to any formal religion would he be denied heaven/paradise whatever???????? love Kay XX
posted
WOC..I have a feeling u r somewhere in the bible belt.If this is the case y don't u go to city hall in San Francisco and preach to your brothers and sisters waiting in line..Oh i forgot,jesus died for there sins,in this case u can celebrate with them.
Posts: 16 | From: USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
(Oh Warrior, in your rage you completely overlooked that I was talking to my fellow Muslims in the Forum, and not to you. ) No I aint angry, God has given me boldness and I have a passion to witness it's not anger.
(We have Jesus (alehi salam) in our lives, and all the other prophets of God also, without believing in all of them, we are not Muslims} You do not have Jesus, you have another Christ, your Jesus never died for you. Your bible takes away the prescious gift of God, Jesus atonement for sin on the cross.
Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an (angel from heaven), preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As you can see or an angel of heaven (Gabriel)I cannot accept your religion.
2 corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him
You have another Christ, which I cannot accept. The real Christ died for you, and you need to realise that, God loved you so much that he gave his son to die for you.
(I have one question for you to think about: are you not afraid of dying? If you think you'll go straight to paradise and that your soul will not be judged for your good and bad deeds by the one God that created you, you should be longing to die, right?
But if you are afraid of death, and what might happen to you afterwards... you'll need to re-evaluated what you're saying)
Well i long to go to heaven and be with God, but I know that God has a purpose for me here, and I wait patiently and do his work. until he calls me home.
(in your last post you say "I am without sin" you then go on to say "we are all sinners" this got me thinking what i wish to ask is how can Jesus have died for my sins so long before i was born?) No I definitely am a sinner, what i was trying to say is that, because Jesus died for my sins, when I ask forgiveness to God my sins are gone and I am seen without sin in Gods eyes. I am a sinner in need of a savior and I have my savior Jesus and I thank him for his prescious blood shed for me.
(In acepting that my sins have already been paid for then I can do anything without fear) No I am saved but when I sin the spirit tells me it's wrong and I repent, I do not want to sin no more because i want to serve God. God changes your heart and works in you when you accept him into your life. I hope this explains our question. (my tendancy is to belive at the moment that i am resposable for my own 'sins' it is my responibility to atone to whoever i have offended and my duty to try not to offend anyone) We are responsible for our sins, but we can never stop sinning, and God knows that, thats why he sent his son to die for us. God works in us and changes us into the image of his son. (if a man lives a good and respectful life in every way but does not subscribe to any formal religion would he be denied heaven/paradise whatever???????? love Kay XX) The bible says its not by works, but by faith, you dont need to work all your life to be good, Jesus was perfect for us, and we cant be perfect we all come short of the glory of God, salvation is a free gift by Jesus. (if a man lives a good and respectful life and does not subscribe to any formal religion would he be denied heaven ? )
No, its not by religion, salvation comes by faith in Jesus not by any religion, you can live your whole life and not go to church and have Jesus and you will go to heaven. in order to be saved. Confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved thats how easy it is all you have to do is have faith in Jesus and you are saved.
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