posted
Hi everybody I should mention that an American TV program called "Opera" did show - several years ago- the same subject, but here I write to my dear fellow Egyptians my personal experiences. I have been married for 19 yrs and we (my wife and myself) look as if we were newly wedds! The following points are my personal commitments: *Never/ever have a toilet with WC door opened. Have the suction Fan on as you enter the bathroom. *Never/ever get rid of gases outside the WC. *Never/ever forget having my teeth brushed after any thing eaten. Have a 5 cm tooth brush (made in China) in my pocket when leaving my house. *A shower everyday/morning is a must. In summer time at least twice daily. *A kiss before leaving and another one on returning. *Walk hand in hand at most of the time when outside. *Look at the mirror when just getting out of bed and comb the wild hair before being seen. *Confirm to my wife - whenever she mentions aging - she is, and will always be , the "younger" and the "dear" girl in my own eyes. *Never/ever compare my wife with any other woman appearing on the TV screen. Do not expect/demand she could compete with Laila Ellwy/Youssra in attractiveness or Nabila Ebid as a Superwoman (in her socially rejected "Amma Nor" series). Do not bet that women do not watch/compare men and women have the right to do so if you ignore their pride. These points are written to my younger fellow Egyptians on their way to get married. I wish to read more ideas/experiences of the older married men/women that I may add to my personal commitments to keep my relationship with my wife as warm and growing to the end of my life. I am fortunate enough to have the freedom of using the Internet to exchange experiences while my wife does not have time to see what I write. She is Engineer with advanced graduate degrees and a top position in her field. Hope you all the success in your marital relationships. Salam.
Posts: 182 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2004
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Sciencesailor - I agree with Monica. You seem like a great husband!
Monica: I don't know about the separate bedrooms, but separate bathrooms is definately a big help! My hubby and I have that arrangement and we are very happy and I luv having my own bathroom. Who knows...whatever works...
Would like to hear more thoughts on this subject, Lori G.
Posts: 18 | From: Mt. Pleasant, SC, USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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Sciencesailor.. I like this topic. Very Loogical Sciencesailor you must be lucky. Monica I don't agree with you.. I suggest seperate countries to keep romance alive Posts: 477 | From: Egypt | Registered: Jan 2004
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Seriously, Loriglenn, a separate bathroom is a great idea!
Could it be that when you romantically (!!)work at it, romance could survive after marriage?
Hmmm... I'm not totally convinced yet
Jaguar, that was not my opinion!! I was told... But I like yours though ...
I did suggest a 'part time' marriage on a thread at one point.
quote:Originally posted by jaguar: Sciencesailor.. I like this topic. Very Loogical Sciencesailor you must be lucky. Monica I don't agree with you.. I suggest seperate countries to keep romance alive
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 20 February 2004).]
posted
To Ms Monica: I think separate bedrooms is a preliminary step towards divorce! I as a male have (+ ve) electrical charges my wife's are (- ve). On touching, we neutralize the excess electricity in our bodies and consequently we feel relaxation. We in our modern and speedy style of earning our living meet at dinner (5 PM) and at times one of us wait till (7 or 8 PM) until the other finish his/her late work. We need to feel the presence of each other in a close distance to compensate for the tough/tense/competitive work we both have. We need to feel the warmth of our bodies in the cold winter time and as to the summer the light/absence of dress has its pleasures too. I can not immagine how a couple deny themselves such body-needs just because they can not stand each other bodies in a close distance! A few weeks ago, I was in a touristic trip to Cairo with a group enjoying a late night Nile cruise and sleeping the few hours left at a 4 star Hotel. As usual, I refused to sleep in separate beds in the same room in spite of the bedsize is too narrow to take 2 persons. We were not sleeping comfortably but we had a night to remember! Monica, I think the man should accept everything about his wife, when she sleeps like an angle and also when she snoors after a long stressing day at her work, i too should have the samething. i tolerate seeing whatever she forget to take away from the bathroom at the red days. I tell myself this is the biology that enables me to enjoy afterwards! I should accept her when she is available and also when her biology is demanding some privacy. This is not me in my mature years, but it is from the very beginning of our marriage. Just wondering, seeing Hollywood movies, could there be that massaging of the husband to his wife and the vice versa with such almost daily frequency. I had visited American families during my study years at the States but never seen them massaging eachother. I, at times, close to beg my wife to massage my shoulders to relax my tense muscles after a tough day at the refinery. When I am asked to do the massage, in a second I respond with attempts to stop convertng the massaging to a foreplay! Again wondering how the Westerners can control their sexual apetite when they carry out either massaging the other sex or when having slow dancing naturally with the other sex? I hope I managed to answer your question and thanks in advance if you provide answers to my questions. Salam
Posts: 182 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2004
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I don't know what to say, it has never even come to mind to go for separate bathrooms or bedrooms. When I think about the happiness and romance in my marriage, it does certainly not depend on whether the bathroom door is opened/ closed or any gases take their course outside the wc (Egyptians who are living with 'fuul' know what I mean). But maybe this will change during the next 10 years?
with any man, I don't like the smell of sweat, body and mouthsmell, but my husband I do love like he is and everything that comes with it. If he is not perfect for anybody else, he still is for me! If I have to do my hair and brush my teeth each morning before he sees me, with whom ever I'll be able to relax and just be myself, and be loved for whatever I look like in the morning?
what works for me and my husband?
1) don't get caught up in the daily routine, a couple has to break out - the more the better - and spend time alone without work, kids, friends, tv. Take a walk, go out for dinner, cuddle on the sofa, dance slow whatever.
2) never ever sleep while being upset with your partner, always solve a problem and be at good terms when you go to sleep. You never know if any of you will ever wake up again from sleep. If you are really angry try to imagine for a minute what life would be like without your partner!
3) I'm with sciencesailor on never leave or meet without a kiss, and
4) a shoulder rub works miracles to relax and settle down after a hard day.
5) Say 'I love you' at least once a day and follow it up with small things that confirm it! give small presents whenever you feel like it, not at special occasions only. Get his/ her favorite gum, a flower sometimes, an e-card love letter, write 500 times 'i love you' on tiny papers and hide them all over his/her belongings (clothes, wallet, socks, etc.), whatever crazy idea comes to your mind.
6) let your partner share all your problems and success at work, give him/her all the details, even if it seems boring. So you can always relate to each other, and the daily routine and its development will not drive you apart.
Congrats to you sciencesailor for your happy and romantic marriage! May it always stay like this inshaAllah.
posted
In all honesty, personally, I am convinced that when two compatible people bond, click, love each other genuinely, every kind word comes naturally. Care, affection, appreciation, tenderness, generosity, friendship, romance, passion, and mostly, reciprocity and faithfulness: all in unison, celebrate their love regardless of time!
And that to me is the Romantic LOVE Combo!
Marriage should be based on that combo!
I'm convinced that's the way it should be, one hunderd percent [and in arabic 'meya meya'] Or nothing!
Happy Love days, forever, to every married couple!
Sincerely Monica
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 22 February 2004).]
quote:Originally posted by karinfarid: never ever sleep while being upset with your partner, always solve a problem and be at good terms when you go to sleep. You never know if any of you will ever wake up again from sleep. If you are really angry try to imagine for a minute what life would be like without your partner!
All this advice is wonderful. Some more ideas:
It pays to take care of yourself always, even when at home. Of course I don't mean superficial things like wearling makeup in front of your husband at home etc, that is too artificial. However, having a drink of water in the morning and at least a small minty tic-tac before the morning kiss, brusing your hear, washing your face and always wearing deodorant is part of natural caring for yourself. Beauty comes from within, so a beautiful soul and a healthy diet do more than make-up.
Never, ever, deny your husband sex as a way of "getting at him" if he upsets you. It is the worst thing a woman can do.
(exception - if he cheats on you, then for health reasons also it is recommended you wait)
Find some activity you can do together - walking, biking, solving puzzles. Especially after children are born, it is important to share an activity not conected with children as a way to keep the bond fresh.
This one is funny enough for me...huh Why do people cheat?
Can U answer me first and what in this world can make them don't cheat?.....lol
A lot of people act this way, saying we do not know if there is any man who would not cheat under this given circumstances.
As to why do people cheat, I'll tell you about the cheaters that I know:
- some men just cannot control themselves. they see a woman and they go after her. Doesn't mean they're not being good husbands at the same time. Not at all, those men are with above-avg sexual appetites.
- some are very bad at breaking up, and they'll cheat so that they have something new to fall back on once they break up, and to have a reason to break up.
- some people are lacking something in their life, and they believe it's temporary, and try to fill the void with someone else meanwhile (cheating during trips, for e.g.)
What makes people 'not cheat' in my mind, is simply because their romance is still percolating!
Oh yes, and of course because they would not commit any betrayal based on their high standard morals - wether religious or other...depending on their upbringing.
I feel a new thread is about to pop
quote:Originally posted by Adoula: Hi Monica,
This one is funny enough for me...huh Why do people cheat?
Can U answer me first and what in this world can make them don't cheat?.....lol
A lot of people act this way, saying we do not know if there is any man who would not cheat under this given circumstances.
As to why do people cheat, I'll tell you about the cheaters that I know:
- some men just cannot control themselves. they see a woman and they go after her. Doesn't mean they're not being good husbands at the same time. Not at all, those men are with above-avg sexual appetites.
- some are very bad at breaking up, and they'll cheat so that they have something new to fall back on once they break up, and to have a reason to break up.
- some people are lacking something in their life, and they believe it's temporary, and try to fill the void with someone else meanwhile (cheating during trips, for e.g.)
It would be lovely to think that you can be happy with one person forever and that they will always be the only one in the world to you, but sometimes that just isn't the case.
I don't think anyone goes into a relationship with the intention of being unfaithful, I don't think it's a matter of ok or not ok. It is something that just happens.
Or as they say: Sex without love is an empty experience, but as empty experiences go, it's one of the best.
posted
So Adoula, do you mean to say that 'cheating' is in human's nature regardless of upbringing, religion, genuine commitment, love and respect?
I still believe that a respectable kind, decent, romantic gentleman CAN be faithful and can love only one woman and never cheat! I just believe it!
Call me a dreamer but I'm convinced that decent faithful Egyptian men are still around.. Can't imagine being romantic if I find out that my 'husband' cheated on me....can anyone?????
Also, can a man be romantic with his wife after she cheated on him??? don't think so!
So..
Here is one more thing that takes Romance Out of the Relationship:
CHEATING ... and regardless of gender by the way!
Definition of cheating: cheat:deceive or trick cheat on: be sexually unfaithful
What do you all think?
Monica
Lori said: (exception - if he cheats on you, then for health reasons also it is recommended you wait)
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 22 February 2004).]
The subject is really heating up!!! Monica your question make me remember the article I have read once.As they say cheating husbands become more romantic after they cheat.The article says that if your husband starts buying you flowers everyday or start to show more attention then before, you must start getting suspicious...
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Monica:
Also, can a man be romantic with his wife after she cheated on him??? don't think so!
One thing I always noticed when in Paris, men holding flowers on their way home, in the metro or walking!
But no generalization meant here!
quote:Originally posted by fantachero: Hi all,
The subject is really heating up!!! Monica your question make me remember the article I have read once.As they say cheating husbands become more romantic after they cheat.The article says that if your husband starts buying you flowers everyday or start to show more attention then before, you must start getting suspicious...
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Monica:
Also, can a man be romantic with his wife after she cheated on him??? don't think so!
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 23 February 2004).]
posted
dear friends this tread really seems to be hotting up.
i can honestly say that never in my life have i been in a relationship and been tempted to cheat. it has never even occured to me to do so. if i am in a relationship and want to stay in it all of my focus is on that relationship - not looking around for anything else - if i am not getting what i need or giving the other person what they need then it is time for both parties to sit down and work it out or move on. (gosh it sounds so simple when i write it down) if someone wants sex outside their relationship then they should free their partner no cheat on them
the other thing that should be remembered is that any relationship, marrage, partnership, friendship, takes work - even our virtual friendships take a bit of committment - we have to log on, listen to what is being said and respond - if we were not getting anything out of it then we would not join in.
i think many of the ideas for a happy partnership that have been posted here are great - i am taking notes for future reference!!!
That was cool advice, the mint before the morning kiss he he he...
Your comment about the 'cheating' brings me to a crucial question, why on earth would the hubby cheat, if the romance is percolating??
It does happen for sure...we hear cases all the time around us...but why???
I know that could be a new thread, but since we're on the 'keeping romance after marriage' one, I guess it fits!
What do you think?
Monica,
For sure cheating should not be on the agenda of a man in love. The reason I mention it is a discussion with one of my best friends in Prague, a Syrian woman married to a Czech guy. She told me that Muslim men ALWAYS cheat on their wives, at least in Syria, and that she never, ever wants a Muslim man for a husband because he will cheat on her for sure.
From my perspective, if my man cheats on me he can stay with the woman he cheated me with.
But if my friend is right and Muslim men are cheaters, I thought I would mention the issue if it really is "de rigueur" to cheat.
I like what you said, if a man cheats he can stay wherever he is cheating indeed!! Buh bye.. for sure!!!
Nevertheless, and wth all due respect to your Syrian friend, her statement was a bit of a generalization, to say the least.
Unless that.... Syrian Muslim men have this tendency, and I'm not that familiar with the Syrian male's psyche to discuss it; could be a 'Syrian man made' cultural thing . It definitely depends a lot on how deeply rooted is a man's religion, his morals, his decent upbringing, his commitment to his wife through marriage etc.... It is a punishable sin to cheat, for both genders, in the Holy Qur'an by the way.
BUT....
As per my humble opinion, and based on my Egyptian, Lebanese, Jordanian, Algerian, Tunisian, Morrocan friends, male cousins, relatives etc... I don't believe that EVERY Muslim man cheats on his wife at all.
It's almost like saying for example that all Christian women in Italy or Egypt or France or Russia etc...are faithful!!! Is that a fact? It most definitely depends on their morals, religious commitment and upbringing. What do you think?
quote:Originally posted by Lori: From my perspective, if my man cheats on me he can stay with the woman he cheated me with.
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 24 February 2004).]
quote:Originally posted by fantachero: As they say cheating husbands become more romantic after they cheat.The article says that if your husband starts buying you flowers everyday or start to show more attention then before, you must start getting suspicious...
Well if he had cheated on me I wouldn't need him, he can go to hell with our without flowers... I don't want him to be romantic if that's the price.
posted
I believe that men generally have more sex-appetite than women. There may be exceptions (though I don't know any). If a woman sees a handsome, well-built man does her mind jump to thoughts like: I wonder what this man looks like naked? what is the smell of his body and private parts? what does he taste like? what would it be like to kiss him or make love to him? Even if that man is naked, the chances are rare.
On the other side, this is very easy for men (pls. contradict me, guys, if I say something wrong, but honestly!)
I believe this is one of the reasons why a Muslim man is allowed to have up to 4 wives, and why there is so much mention of wives for the pious in the Koran - because it is so important for men, and they are weak in this point.
Thus I think it is recommended for a man to have only one wife (re. if you can't deal justly with them - and you can't do it, marry only one), but if he fears to lose control and engage in extra-marital affairs, it'll be better for him to get married again and give the woman all her rights granted to her as a wife. Thus the women are both respected, protected and cared for. And for those who think about the first wife now: what is better: to be cheated on or to have a co-wive, while having the option also to ask for a divorce if she could not bear the very thought of it?
I know a very dear woman to me, who has been madly in love with a married man for about 10 years now, he'll not divorce his wife, because of their social position and grown-up kids, he'd not leave her after all those years, but at the same time he is in love with the other woman and they see each other as often as possible, mostly in secret, a weekend here or there. And you know what? his wife knows it, but all of them keep on playing this charade... this is what totally stunts me!
Unfortunately, this is a common, global, situation. Especially, and mostly within a particular social class.
Wether because they have common financial interests or because they prefer to keep the family image for the children, I disapprove 100% of such a charade. After all if you Karin, know about that arrangement, so do many others, for sure.
Women need to be empowered to reach maturity through self-respect, to have more dignity, and a higher self-esteem, to be more decisive, and to have the courage to face the truth, accept it, and move on, for their own psychological well being, I believe!
The problem with all these little charades is that a great percentage of women/globally speaking, do NOT stand up for their rights as individuals; and do not speak up when it comes to rock the boat/family in fear of jeopardizing their family image, their financial status their social status and definitely the children's psyche. It is heartbreaking to break a family, but is it better to live a LIE? I wonder.
It never ceases to astonish me how little has been accomplished within that department, worldwide. It should start at the root, from the parents. Methods on how to educate little girls, have not changed that much....................some of us are lucky!
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 24 February 2004).]
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Ladies/Gentlemen: Would you please let me get back to the original subject. To keep the Romance alife, the man should be well aware of differences in the mental abilities/phsychic attitudes between men & women. Yes, there are differences. A man has sharper analytical power and consequently better abilities in decision making. Once I had a colleauge with Master in Biochemistry owning a medical analyses lab and she was pregnant in her first child. As she was close to delivery (final month of pregnancy) I asked her if she will have a physician attending her delivery. She mentioned the name of a male physician. I replied you are a female doctor and you select a male doctor! Her reply was: At the critical moments the man can have vital decisions with sharpness and courage that women usually lack! I trust a male gynacologist to help me in my child birth operation but not a female doctor! I am afraid of being called A typical male chauvonist after receiving a considerable praise from the women in particular. In my daily life, small things, the tiny minute details as Monica termed them, regularly show up as differences between me and my wife in the way we carry out these details. I should tolerate telling myself these are her weakpoints, eg. leaving the bedroom door opened after she takes something from it wasting the heating electricity and it is always me that re-close the door and afterwards get back to my PC or watching TV (weak analytical ability although she at her work revises the heat balances that her engineers calculate daily). On returning home, I cover the bed with the wool blanket and "Lihaf, do not know its english name" to keep it warm when we get to bed to sleep but she always does the opposite thinking my behavior is harmful as the blankets should be subjected to air, I usually stumble on entering the kitchen because she leaves her light shoes (kitchen shipship) right in the middle of the kitchen entrance and quietly I throw them with my feet aside. I remind myself whenever I get upset how was the apartment in complete mess when she was in ElOmra and how the timing of eating my meals was different every day and how I spent an entire hour in the kitchen every morning to prepare my breakfast (just 2 or 3 sandwiches) while in shorter time she finishes my breakfast+tea with milk+fresh orange juice with honey+the dinner meal and get ready to have a morning kiss before I leave! These tinny things can spoil a relationship if the man, I repeat: the man, does not tolerate his beloved wife's weak points and also appreciate (reminding himself regularly) her excel. The man should be the rational the wise the caring father of his wife and then he will enjoy the most pleasing reward in our lives: a flooding passion out of his wife. I hope an influential Egyptian person connected to those leaders of Maspero (Eg TV Headquarters) a reader of ES Forum, ask them to buy the Am TV "Opera" program series selecting whatever beneficial to our society, and I am sure we will learn a lot from watching this program. It was broadcasted from a channel called METV, unfortunately this channel disappeared from the air. I think it was transmitting through the Israeli sattelite. Salam. Posts: 182 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2004
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I agree with you that sometimes women may be more emotional at times than men, we have given more of tender feelings, mercy, compassion, and probably generally speaking men are the better decision makers when it comes down to examine fact with fact. Still any woman who is an expert in her profession may excel against her male colleagues. That is her field, she studied it well and is doing it every day. Btw, I have 3 children alhamdulillah, and all of them were born in Egypt at the hands of Egypt. female doctors.
The tiny minute details that you give as examples for the mental/psychological differences, that a man has to learn to cope with, might just be the personal characteristics of you and your wife, and your wife also may be coping with personal traits of you that you are not aware of!
In my home it is my husband who always forgets appointments, it is him who forgets to call back people, and leaves his shoes in the same place he takes them off, he forgets to take off the bathroom shipship after using the bathroom, and all the family is searching for his keys nearly every day, because he does always put them in a different place and seldom remembers. And you know what? He is excellent at analysing and a very good hardware engineer and judge of peoples' characters and also a very smooth and comforting talker. I simply love him, the whole package, and I remind myself that I also do things that may annoy him, sometimes I realize it, sometimes not. Exmample: I am not a passionate housewife, nor a great cook, but even if the food has turned out something else at all than I had hoped for, my husband will not complain and eat from it, even if only a little Not all the men are like him, nor all the women like me.
Believe me, I would hate to see Opera in Egypt, I 'enjoyed' watching it when I was in the US after my graduation. Excuse me, do you want to confront the Egyptian people with: my mother took my boyfriend from me and is pregnant now? or: my boyfriend became gay and is now dating my brother? my wife fell in love with the gardener and is now suing custody for our adopted chinese twins? the topics never ceased to amaze me. I don't see how this program could be adapted for humankind, let alone for Arabs, Egyptians or Muslims. It seems to me that those people are living not in another country, but in another world. No offence, my personal opinion.
posted
dear siencesailor i cant wait for some of the replies you are going to get! and you were doing so well up till now!
"the man should be well aware of differences in the mental abilities/phsychic attitudes between men & women. Yes, there are differences. A man has sharper analytical power and consequently better abilities in decision making. "
i think this is too much of a generalisation i could give you many examples of working women who beat men hands down in their fields and vice versa.
i think you are right however about overlooking 'weakpoints' although i think it works both ways - do you ever have to think about laudrey? or shopping or collecting the kids? i should think that having to shut the door or move a pair of shoes is small price to pay for having an angel in the kitchen every morning!
maybe its the word weakpoint that i have a problem with - sounds a bit harsh? maybe something softer like 'cute irritation'? no one likes to be thought of as weak.
i think all you guys and girls out there should "tolerate his(or her) beloved wife's(or husbands) weak points" with this i am in total agreement
much love and wishing you all "a flooding passion" kay X
quote:Originally posted by karinfarid: If a woman sees a handsome, well-built man does her mind jump to thoughts like: I wonder what this man looks like naked? what is the smell of his body and private parts? what does he taste like? what would it be like to kiss him or make love to him? Even if that man is naked, the chances are rare.
From experience, mine and others', chances a woman would have these thoughts is pretty high. Perhaps not to this degree you mentioned, that's a bit much and I daresay the man would have to be verrry attractive. Still, beauty always causes us to admire the beautiful person. This does not mean the woman would necesarily have impure thoughts on the man, and even less that she would act on her thoughts. But to see a beautiful man and not think anything, it means you're blind.
I know a very dear woman to me, who has been madly in love with a married man for about 10 years now, he'll not divorce his wife, because of their social position and grown-up kids, he'd not leave her after all those years, but at the same time he is in love with the other woman and they see each other as often as possible, mostly in secret, a weekend here or there. And you know what? his wife knows it, but all of them keep on playing this charade... this is what totally stunts me!
peace, Karin
With all due respect, the man can't be in love all that much if he does not make his love "official". Especially if the kids are grown up.
What does your friend think? Is she happy with the arrangement, a stolen week-end here, a few hours spent together with one eye on the watch, is this the way to love?
posted
Again: Ladies/Gentlmen It surprises me that most of the replies/comments in this topic came from women. I, in the very beginning, was checking if I can add more to enrich my loving relationship with my wife after 19 yrs of a happy marriage (did not blesssed with having kids, no medical reason/fault with either of us). I expected to hear from men their own experiences or even something they read in a book/magazine, instead got ideas from caring and kind ladies like Monica, Karin & KayX. It seems we have here a cultural reason behind that silence or a religous one. In Islam, damned he who tell what happened with his wife after making love. But all I asked for was behaviors/attitudes that bind me more to my wife. The sexual act itself, I think I am a kind of Zoil in this field, need no advice! (I love/respect this man: Prof Dr Zoil, wished to be like him: a pioneer/discoverer of new frontiers in science, but working for the Egyptian petroleum industry drained my time/energy in noncreative research work!). Ms Karin: I did watch "Opera" TV program when it was discussing topics of interest to the American culture and also when it discussed other topics that are of social interest to other cultures as well, eg. home learning vs school attendance (in Egypt: Private lessons vs Dr Baha ElDin-Minister of Education!). I wrote "to select the topics" that could benefit our audience. Ms. Karin: Believe me, I easily say I have my weak points and at times name them too. In Islam: Perfection is only for God. I, like your husband, when my wife was at Omera, all my shoes came out of their wardrobe (ElGazama) and were in line at the entrance of the apartment aside, just to enjoy selecting the pair I like without any effort to open the Gazama! and also to enjoy doing whatever is a Big No in the presence of my dear beloved wife! The entire reception sofas were covered with whatever I get out of the automatic laundaring machine (underwear) to save the time/energy of getting them in order and putting them inside the wardrobe (reason: in a short time I will take them out again)! Believe me, it took me 2 days before her arrival date to work like a horse inside the apartment to get it back into "her order"! I did not go out afterwork in these 2 days telling whoever invite me to spend the time with: if my wife arrives suddenly and see our apartment she will faint or turn back thinking it was the wrong apartment not hers! Ms. Kay: I hope you forgive my frank way of expressing what I believe in. I know working women who are very intelligent in their profession, usually the woman wants to prove herself and consequently work harder than men to gain their confidence/respect. Let me correct my wording; Men are "relatively" having better analytical abilities/daring decision making at critical times than women. I might add that women can stand family crisis with nerves stronger than men. Women have more durability in facing/taming sad and grieving incidents like the loss of their husbands (presuming loving relationship), like the loss of their trade/savings, and adopt swiftly, then life goes on (usually men either remarry on a rush or commit suicide respectively). Can any one here remember the Hollywood movie "American Beauty"? I live it daily, meaning the part of keep telling my dear and beloved wife: do not panic for any damage of any thing in our apartment. My and your savings up till now, we may not be able to spend all of it before our lives come to an end.(I allow her to have separate and independent finance and never asked her how much is your salary? a matter of principles and it is the oriental pride -Turkish heritage- that does not allow a man to have a woman spend mony for him! may be) This is a rational way of thinking: enjoy your life, everyday of it, the least you worry about is money, enjoy your being healthy and capable of doing/reaching whatever/wherever you like. Nothing in this apartment deserves getting upset and sad, not a tv or a videocassette player etc, not a dish/glass cup I broke while preparing it for your washing machine trying to help knowing you came back from work extremely exhausted. See Kay, this is a difference in analysing our very daily minute details. The guy in "American beauty" hated his wife and fantasized making love to his daughter's girlfriend because of these differences in handling minute everyday details, but as I am from different culture; all I aim at is to ask men to tolerate the differences in order to gain a rewarding warm/passionate relationship. Hope I managed to elaborate. Salam. Posts: 182 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Ok SS, U who asked for men opinion, so let me tell U what I think?
Think of your grandparents' marriages. It was clear to all the man was to be the provider and to be faithful to his wife. The woman took care of the inside of the home and the children. The man took care of the outside. The same was true of our parents generation.
Everyone knew what their roles were and what was expected of them. That just isn't true today. Wives are seldom satisfied with a man doing just what their father or grandfather did.
What does your wife expect of you? What do you expect of yourself?
I think one of the biggest problems marriages face today is the high expectations wives have of their husbands.
Let me explain.
In the past marriage was one of several institutions where meaning was found and intimacy needs were met. Others included social and not sport clubs, neighborhood, extended family, friends, etc.
Today marriage is usually the only place where people can go for intimacy and companionship. That puts extra pressure on marriage to meet these needs.
It isn't easy for most men to say, "You're expecting too much of me!" Usually we give the impression, that we can and will handle anything that comes along.
By keeping things hidden inside man gives the impression he is able to handle it all.
Women must constantly realize that most men are really little boys doing their best to act like men. No man ever handled it all.
NEVER try to change your husband. Men had enough of that from their mothers and that isn't why they married you! Accept them as they are.
Encourage them, support them, compliment them, love them, forgive them.
Perhaps you've heard "The Seven Ages Of The Married Cold." It goes like this:
1st year of marriage: "Sugar dumpling, I'm worried about my baby girl. You've got a bad sniffle and there's no telling about these things. I'm putting you in the hospital for a general checkup and a good rest. I'll bring your meals in. I've already got it all arranged."
2nd year of marriage: "Listen, darling, I don't like the sound of that cough and I've called Doc Miller to rush over here. Now you go to bed like a good girl, please?"
3rd year of marriage: "Maybe you'd better lie down, honey. Nothing like a little rest when you feel punk. I'll bring you something to eat. Have we got any soup?"
4th year of marriage: "Look, dear, be sensible. After you feed the kids and get the dishes washed, you'd better hit the sack."
5th year of marriage: "Why don't you get yourself a couple asprin?"
6th year of marriage: "If you'd just gargle or something instead of sitting around barking like a seal!"
7th year of marriage: "For Pete's sake, stop sneezing! Whatcha trying to do, give me pneumonia?"
Why does this make us smile? Most married couples realize that things change as married life goes on.
Ok, it was a joke, but what can we learn from it:
In order to romance your wive, Show her you love her in ways that mean a lot to her. Keep on doing the things you did before marriage when you wanted to convince her you loved her and she could depend on U.
NOW, U R talking about cheating, ok, here is the scenario:
The man comes home from a long, hard day of work and is emotionally and physically drained. All he wants is peace and quiet, to be left alone, and to not have any more demands made on him. The more demands his wife makes of him the more he withdraws. He feels criticized or unappreciated for what he does do and withdraws more. She wants to 'make contact' with him and talks about one little thing after another. He seems to ignore her and not hear what she says. She takes this as rejection. So she becomes more pressuring. He puts up solid walls (or stays out of the house, coming home late).
May be this is the first step toward trying to find love and peace with another woman.
posted
Mr Adoula: Thanks for your caring to reply. First, As to cheating, a man likemyself who married in his mid thirties with a considerable experience before marriage, and once married is determined to be religous and a onewoman-man to the rest of mylife, cheating/flirting is not/has never passed through my thoughts. Again, once married, I have had respect to my religion and to my wife as well. Second, believe me Adoula, as I was getting into my fifties; my caring/appreciation of my wife has been increasing everyday. As you get more experience in finding out how people can be of no principles/greedy/tend to manipulate; you evaluate/compare the precious values that motivate your wife's choices in her life-style to those of the people surrounding you in your social circle, and I have noticed that I became more affectionate and expressing of my gratitude to whatever she does to please/serve me as years pass. Believe me, as time pass in my marriage, I found out that whenever she feels sick, contrary to what you mentioned, I get more worried than I used to be in our earlier years of marriage. I think Adoula that passion grows with years especially when accompanied with a civilized treatment or as what we call in Islam "fear of not pleasing God" if we do any thing as mistreatment to each other. Still; with my absolute frankness, as the man get older, like my case, I feel I am not sexually Superman as I used to be before (thanks God not in need of Viagra yet) and also the preoccupation of sex has been replaced gradually with preoccupation with the responsibilities/pressures/rival peers nailing of your competence due to the top position you/me are stuck into; all of these factors lead to more mature consideration of the role that your wife do in your life, ask yourself what would I do without her especially when I am old enough not to be able to easily restart adjustment with another woman, not to mention manage to find a one that does not calculate how much money she could inherite when I get underground before deciding if she accepts geting married to you/me? The reaction after these thoughts a tender kiss/ a hug/ taking her to eat out in a nice restaurant ("Tikka Grill" facing/viewing the east harbour of Alexandria is our favorite place, believe it or not I dream of this restaurant's Bissara more than anything else, my deceased mother was excellent in cooking it while my wife and also her mother try hard but usually I lie saying "Wonderful" and I swallow it as if it were a medicine) taking her to visit her mother (smiles with happinees like a 5 yr old girl when I offer this) or just have a drive along the most beautiful sea Kornich in the Midetarenean and go to Bahary to enjoy "Karam" icecream and the smell of the manual fishery industry in the nearby seashore. We are stepping into our 20 th yr of marriage and I feel as if we were married only a year before. We still kid each other and run through our apartment from a place to another / call each other with exciting names ----- Oh Adoula, enough, otherwise I may step into something that may not please God. I am just giving hope to the newly weds, be optimistic, invest into your marriage like you invest in a project, the harvest will/should be something precious, the feeling of satisfaction. Thanks to God for everything. May God bless your marriage. Amen.
Posts: 182 | From: Alexandria, Egypt | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
dear adoula im afraid i agree with rimo. "Adoula, aren't you being a little harsh on women?....." but i loved your seven ages of the married cold! i also think you are right about expectations both for men and wonen.
siencesailor ok you have redeemed yourself in my eyes. i think your wife is very lucky to have you and you her - it really sounds wonderful. may you both be blessed with many many more years. i will always remember "invest into your marriage like you invest in a project, the harvest will/should be something precious"
quote:Originally posted by Adoula: The man comes home from a long, hard day of work and is emotionally and physically drained. All he wants is peace and quiet, to be left alone, and to not have any more demands made on him. The more demands his wife makes of him the more he withdraws. He feels criticized or unappreciated for what he does do and withdraws more. She wants to 'make contact' with him and talks about one little thing after another. He seems to ignore her and not hear what she says. She takes this as rejection. So she becomes more pressuring. He puts up solid walls (or stays out of the house, coming home late).
May be this is the first step toward trying to find love and peace with another woman.
That is why men cheat.
This is not why men cheat. At least this is not why mature grown-up men cheat.
What you have described is a symptom of the ME - ME - ME age where people are concerned mostly with themselves.
Of course the man works hard. Women work hard too. We all work hard. And sharing your thoughts with the loved one is not a chore imposed upon you, but the very reason why you choose to stay with that person. Marriage, especially loving marriage, is about sharing. Of course it's easier on you not to share, to be concerned just with activities that give you money, such as work.
However this is not a way to live. This is the way to live for animals, who care only about food and water and mating twice a year. Maybe this is it! These men are not cheating! They just want food and water - so they work for it - and go out of the house when they want to mate! A great victory of man over the animal kingdom.
For those men who care nothing about sharing their time with a woman at the end of a long working day, there is no point in marrying. Stay alone and watch TV!
posted
my dear SS i really admire your thinking and ur way in managing your life, and i pray to god that u 2 are blessed all over ur life because such a mentality and a way of living keeping their faith as a reference to their life , and also enjoying it, i wish i can be like u if i got married and i will try to be like u . cuz i really like to be like u .this is the kind of life i really want when i grow up.
posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lori: [B] With all due respect, the man can't be in love all that much if he does not make his love "official". Especially if the kids are grown up. What does your friend think? Is she happy with the arrangement, a stolen week-end here, a few hours spent together with one eye on the watch, is this the way to love?
Dear Lori, Monica actually the woman is not a friend, but a family member; most of the family know that there is 'somebody' in her life, but nobody knows his name, not even her children. His wife has a high social position and a scandal has to be avoided at all costs. And yes, the woman is happy for whatever short time she can spend together with her lover, if she can not have him all. And she is not a young girl, but mother of 2 grown-up children, divorced for many years and a successful business-woman. Don't ask me, why? this is far beyond my understanding.
It's sad that in order to avoid a 'scandal' people take a risk of being in the middle of a worse 'scandal'.
It's too bad that your relative can't be in the 'open', with her love!
It must take a lot of patience to be able to live in the shadow, and in a constant state of 'waiting'. I guess the few moments with him are what she needs.
But I'm curious, is that love/romance or low self-esteem/desperation?
All the best, Monica
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 02 March 2004).]
scientific research shows that "love" can be just as addictive as other "bad" habits. For a broken heart, it becomes even worse, not only love is still addictive but withdrawls are painful. Also change does not always come easy even for strong positive people. So it is not just a matter of "low-esteem", yet oftentimes low self-esteem can be a cause of certain romantic situations.
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 08 March 2004).]
About the scientific research outcome on love...'addictive' I wonder, is that addiction an emotional definition? or just physical?
If the 'feeling' is right, meaning if it encompasses: respect, care, tenderness, compassion, affection, passion and beautiful romance, I would think that it should be a feeling where there are no worries, and no insecurities...don't you think? or am I a dreamer?
Thank you for replying by the way!! Monica
quote:Originally posted by katrina: Monica,
scientific research shows that "love" can be just as addictive as other "bad" habits. For a broken heart, it becomes even worse, not only love is still addictive but withdrawls are painful. Also change does not always come easy even for strong positive people. So it is not just a matter of "low-esteem", yet oftentimes low self-esteem can be a cause of certain romantic situations.
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 08 March 2004).]
About the scientific research outcome on love...'addictive' I wonder, is that addiction an emotional definition? or just physical?
If the 'feeling' is right, meaning if it encompasses: respect, care, tenderness, compassion, affection, passion and beautiful romance, I would think that it should be a feeling where there are no worries, and no insecurities...don't you think? or am I a dreamer?
Perhaps for some people, physical attraction without “respect, care, tenderness, compassion, affection, passion and beautiful romance “ is an addiction, too, but I personally would not define it “love.” I guess I would simply call it just addiction to be politically correct. I totally agree with your definition. I do not think you are a “dreamer”, and if it is so, so what.
I do not know what your experience has been in falling in love, etc. You sound like you either 1) have found “respect, care, tenderness, compassion, affection, passion and beautiful romance “ in your own relationship if any the first time around or 2) or have not experienced broken heart yet regardless of your experience or 3) you have had it all but you are strong and true to yourself.
I believe in true love myself, but as they say it takes two to a tango. If things do go out of sync, and music is still playing, you may get those painful vibes. Scientists believe that these negative emotions are controlled by brain not heart. And so are positive emotions of falling in love. Whether we want to believe it or not, when things do get sour, I guess the lesson is we can “manipulate” our brain to get over the broken heart!
I think we should refer all the women who got hurt on this cite to read the article
P.S. I like reading your comments and advice to people. I learn a lot about your country.
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 11 March 2004).]
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 11 March 2004).]
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 11 March 2004).]
posted
katrina, wow, this is super...I'll check the links, thanks...
I see you followed lots of posts so encouraging...there was a thread called competition ...12 pages, and we were a few ES members on it for a few months actually, exchanging loads of info on Egypt and having lots of fun too...maybe you saw it?! There was interesting info...if you feel like it, check it too...
About your analysis...well, you got it and it's definitely NOT number 2!!! But don't you think that if the couple is in sinc it's for life?
I think that when there's a broken heart, or a falling 'out' of love, it's because there was no compatibility from the beginning, but the messages were ignored and it was only a 'being in love with love', sort of thingy! Whereas when the couple is in sinc, with all those emotions mentioned included, it's a forever after, eternal love situation!
I will check your links in a few minutes, and then maybe you can just open a new thread for everyone to check it out!
You seem emotionally balanced too, and that's the secret of inner peace I guess! I wish it to the world! It's a blessing...
Thanks again, and until the next little chat, take care girl...
Monica
PS. Ok Checked the links, the second one is the valid one.
Page 3 and 4 the most interesting definitions...I loved the 'falling in love in 8 minutes' theory...You should post a new thread, just for this link, what do you say?
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 11 March 2004).]
quote:Originally posted by Monica: katrina, wow, this is super...I'll check the links, thanks...
I see you followed lots of posts so encouraging...there was a thread called competition ...12 pages, and we were a few ES members on it for a few months actually, exchanging loads of info on Egypt and having lots of fun too...maybe you saw it?! There was interesting info...if you feel like it, check it too...
About your analysis...well, you got it and it's definitely NOT number 2!!! But don't you think that if the couple is in sinc it's for life?
I think that when there's a broken heart, or a falling 'out' of love, it's because there was no compatibility from the beginning, but the messages were ignored and it was only a 'being in love with love', sort of thingy! Whereas when the couple is in sinc, with all those emotions mentioned included, it's a forever after, eternal love situation!
I will check your links in a few minutes, and then maybe you can just open a new thread for everyone to check it out!
Thanks again, and until the next little chat, take care girl...
Monica
PS. Ok Checked the links, the second one is the valid one.
Page 3 and 4 the most interesting definitions...I loved the 'falling in love in 8 minutes' theory...You should post a new thread, just for this link, what do you say?
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 11 March 2004).]
Monica,
thanks for the recommendations. I am new to this forum, it takes time to navigate. Where is the Competition?
I am glad you liked the articles. I think we should start a new thread and take this matter of ScienceSailor's hands. hehe. If it is a standalone thread, enrollment will increase. It should be "branded" differently. haha He should practice genecology.
as far as being in love with love and ignoring the signs of incompatability, I think you are right to a certain extent. It is one of the explnations, yet not all inclusive. there is no 100% compatibility and women and men are still different.
I really like your comments. I wish more people believed that regardless of religion, society, its culture, simply believed in that. I will try to post a new thread now.
Another thing that interests me is to understand the situation in the Middle East, specifically Palestine vs Israel and Egypt's upcoming role in defending the border in Gaza strip after Israel's withdrawl. I should say that my opinion is biased toward the Arab side, yet I want to understand it all better. I did not learn it from the news, but watching documentaries on history Channel (Israel's trickery toward Egypt multiple times and other neighbors), as well as talking to my Egyptian friends at school. So how about two threads? what do you think?
[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 30 May 2004).]
posted
QUOTE: But don't you think that if the couple is in sinc it's for life?
I agree, esp. if both are committed. But it takes practice to get in sync (patience, maturity, understanding, responsibility, and unconditional love) just like dancing tango!
I just wrote you a note on the competition thread, on page 12.
You can start reading it from page 1 or just hit any page and see what's interesting to you, we always made sure there was something new/interesting related to Egypt, all the time.
But go on page 12 first for your note of course.
Also, since you are interested in learning more about the Egyptian - Israeli relations as well as the Palestinian cause and the situation in the Middle East in general, I will be delighted to open a thread focusing on that topic, as I am an avid reader/follower/etc... of Middle Eastern issues. But I have to find the appropriate title. It is not a topic that is easy to tackle by the way. Some people get out of control etc...But we can try at least as an informative venue. It could attract an intellectual audience and it could go well, so let's be positive...but beware...turn of events on the subject matter, are not always pwetty pwetty...
In the meantime since you are new to this let me give you a guiding hand to find a bundle of interesting topics since I am active here. If you look at the top right of this page you will find a link called: search. Hit search, and when it opens, on the member name field, write: Monica, and submit. You should get a lot of topics that are Egypt related, that could interest you. There is also a thread or 2 on my reading recommendations about Egypt.
Before I forget, I'll be business tripping for 3 weeks, in a few days, so I won't be as active as usual during that period.
I'll catch you later, and I promise you a new thread, on the subject matter (politics), for the week-end.
Cheers! Monica
quote:Originally posted by katrina: QUOTE: But don't you think that if the couple is in sinc it's for life?
I agree, esp. if both are committed. But it takes practice to get in sync (patience, maturity, understanding, responsibility, and unconditional love) just like dancing tango!
Katrina
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 12 March 2004).]
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