I think you are overreacting in your judgement about ALL Egyptian men. First, you are generalizing. Secondly, you are using heristics in your judgement based on emotions. To illustrate this, when people drive and see an accident on the road, on average people slow down as they empathetically think it could happen to them. So, you are involved in an online relationship, you automatically think your situation is the same is everybody else's. right? Do I describe it close enough? And I am sure you are not alone having such feelings. BUT...

Here is a more rational approach to look at the matter.

First of all, count the number of people who wrote all these beach stories and see if you can come up with say at least 30 women tellign these stories. This is the minimum sample size that you need to make any statistical inferences about a larger population. Now, ask yourself how large of the population you are looking at. Egypt is about 72M people (UN 2003 stats from BBC). Let's assume 50/50 women and men split, then we are talking about 36M men ranging on average from 0 years of age to 71 years of age (71 is life expectancy for men in Egypt per sme source). So you do need a larger sample size than 30 for 36MM population, right ?

Seconldy, for statistical inferences you need to have an unbiased sample...Well, well, well, do not you see that all those beach stories are largerly about men from Hurgada and Sharm. So you do not have an unbiased sample. It does not include Egyptian men that have normal jobs, have responsibilities and morals in life. So how can you say this is all Egyptian men are about is to romance and take your money, and marry you ORFI for sleeping purposes? Also, you are forgetting to read stories of women married to Egyptians on ES. Moreover, read posts of Egyptian men here on ES. I think many of them would be surprised about statements above. Finally, how about women who told those beach stories.. would you believe a man who stops you on the street and says "I love you. Marry me."? NO!!!!!!!!!!

Thirdly, even if you have large enough unbiased sample, it is still a stats inference. You cannot observe ALL Egyptian men. This is an inherent limitation of a stats analysis. It is an estimate, not the truth.

So while the risk of being duped on the Internet may run very high, and you may have a very valid reason to be concerned about the guy you met, it would be an emotional reaction to associate ALL Egyptians with their hunger for sex, money, and women. In fact, you will learn that a true Egyptian man will never take money from a woman.

Read more threads, get a better picture of what Egypt and Egyptian people are about, based on ES members's opinions (again,remember about limitations of people's life experiences, views, observations). Some threads have practical advice on how to check if you are indeed duped by this guy or not. You can also find plenty of advice on ES to avoid the heartbreak that can come your way. Use ES to learn about tricks, ORFI, regular marriage, family traditions and values, etc.

Sincerely, Katrina

[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 20 April 2004).]

quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:
What's up girl? done work? Goodnite!

[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 19 April 2004).]

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Anyway, back to the thread at hand. I'm going to be another to URGE caution to littlekat. Yes, most of the creeps are working in tourism, but by NO means do they have a lock on this little scam. There are poor boys all over this country that are working it. Most of them are young and unemployed. In general, the ones that have decent jobs and would make a respectable "catch" are not spending their time looking for love on the internet. (Having said that, I do know of one that does exactly this, and he is a very respectable guy..... and I'd be the first one to hook him up with the right girl on the Internet, if I knew who she was.)

What you said littlekat about not having any money and him knowing that.... This is something you will just have to learn by time...unless he has LOTS of money, you will seem to have loads of money. If you have a job, even at McDonalds, that would qualify you to be rich, or at least richer than he is. Most "middle class" or even lower middle class Americans (and I apologize if you aren't American-I will assume Europeans are similar) will say they "don't have money" because they are living paycheck to paycheck, but if you can afford an airplane ticket to Egypt, then you are RICH in comparison.

quote:

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Originally posted by jaguar:
I always like the Unsaid posts between Monica and Katrina... deleted posts, vague remarks and smartie smiles.. keep it up. Sabaah el kheir ya banaat.

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jaguar, thank you for your compliments. Translation, please...

i totaly agree with debbie and monica's comments (do listen to them they know what they are talking about)

all i would add is this - altho my relationship did not 'make it' (and yes he was in sharm) i did meet other great people there (men) who i have stayed in touch with - sex, money and a better lifestyle has never come up - we just keep in touch, say hello hows it going etc and they have turned out to be friends - so even after one bad experience (and i think i would be better calling it a learning curve than a bad experiece) i cant say ALL men in sharm are bad.
there are bad people all over the world not just in egypt - even in my 'bad' relationship i was treated better in some ways than i have been by uk guys!
and i do think the internet is quite a good way to meet people - look at all of us! (dont worry guys im not going to propose! lol) i think it was monica who said how great it would be to be known for your personality before your looks.

this is so funny. i always ask myself the same!!!! LOL , its clear

quote:

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Originally posted by blondy25:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Debbie:
[B]Why don't Monica and Katrina download ICQ, MSN Messenger or Yahoo Messenger to chat on? HMMMM?

this is so funny. i always ask myself the same!!!! LOL , its clear

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All knowing Blondy25,
we forgot to ask you for a permission to talk to each other, blondy25, what a pity

littlekat

Like Monica, I am sorry about comments not relevant to your question

quote:

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Originally posted by littlekat2468:
I have been sitting here scanning through this site and reading various messages on this board. Now I am sure that it is not intentional but you make it sound (to a outsider like me) that all Egyptian men are money hungry sex crazed romantic that will never truely love you. I can not believe that this is the message you intend on sending. But i must ask for my own sake. I have met a man, and yes i met him online that i care about very much. I am planning my first trip now to meet him and came to this site just looking for info about that and possibly moving, But after reading these posts I must confess that I now am scared. I know he does not want my money, b-c he knows i have none. But is this a common practice? Do men there do his often? If it was just me i would already be with him but i must consider everything for my children. So please someone tell me that it is possible that he loves me, and that he is not one of these horrible men you have all been discribing. Please? i KNOW THEY CAN'T ALL BE BAD. THANKS---KAT

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quote:

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Originally posted by littlekat2468:
I have met a man, and yes i met him online that i care about very much. I am planning my first trip now to meet him and came to this site just looking for info about that and possibly moving, But after reading these posts I must confess that I now am scared. I know he does not want my money, b-c he knows i have none. But is this a common practice? Do men there do his often? If it was just me i would already be with him but i must consider everything for my children. So please someone tell me that it is possible that he loves me, and that he is not one of these horrible men you have all been discribing. Please? i KNOW THEY CAN'T ALL BE BAD. THANKS---KAT

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It seems that none of these woman have ever gone to Italy or France, and the men in the USA are no angels either. The men can act like pigs, but it also depends on the women, whether they will tolerate the behavior or not.

quote:

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Originally posted by foreigngirl:
The topic on Egyptian men.....

It seems that none of these woman have ever gone to Italy or France, and the men in the USA are no angels either. The men can act like pigs, but it also depends on the women, whether they will tolerate the behavior or not.

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quote:

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Originally posted by pearce648:
you will give him a better life than he is used to and of course better sex as thier sex lives are very boring so you would brighten them up no end.

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excuse me?

quote:

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Originally posted by pearce648:
You can have a very good friend here with an egyptian but not a husband even if you dont have money you will give him a better life than he is used to and of course better sex as thier sex lives are very boring so you would brighten them up no end. Keep your money and your home unless you really love egypt then come here to live but come for your own reasons not for a man there are hardly any marriages that have ever worked here in luxor i been here 7 years and i do not know of 1 thats a happy 1 man 1 woman relationship if any do work they are usually shared marriages with the egyptian taking an egyptian wife which is fine if you dont mind that sort of set up and it is no bodies business if you are happy.I do know some women that share thier husband and they are very happy except for the other slappers who put them down why cany people just leave them alone

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I do know of 1 man 1 woman relationship between a German and an Egyptian of comparable ages so we must avoid generalisations but I think you have a point.

Also about the boring sex lives sadly this may be true because of FGM. I have heard it as a reason to get involved with a European.

Loving Egypt and Egyptians is also very important and living here. Having been married before to a Syrian in the UK I would never be with an Arab seperated from his home land again.

This forum is attracting more "Tohaf" every day D)

Cheers

quote:

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Originally posted by Mooly El Din:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pearce648:
[B]You can have a very good friend here with an egyptian but not a husband even if you dont have money you will give him a better life than he is used to and of course better sex as thier sex lives are very boring so you would brighten them up no end.

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Mooly,

Pearce is a gay man living in Luxor who is fed up with the "rubish" living there.(a quote taken from another post of his.

Maybe this will help in understanding his point of view..haha

quote:

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Originally posted by Laura:

Mooly,

Pearce is a gay man living in Luxor who is fed up with the "rubish" living there.(a quote taken from another post of his.

Maybe this will help in understanding his point of view..haha

Laura

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Thanks Laura, I figured that out after reading this other posts.

May me he meant the sexual life of a bisexual Egyptian man, but I guess that will be fun lots of demands hehehe

Cheers

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Originally posted by Monica:
Mooly...lol.....
TOHAF!!!!he he he... if you can translate this...please!!!!
Maybe in certain areas some are having a boring life...what can we do!?

As if in California or NYC or somewhere in Russia or in Italy or the UK or even in Paris, many couples do not have a boring sex life??? This is a Universal syndrome that hit many couples after many years of being together, probably because they drifted off the real meaning of love and romance and kindness and fidelity and unison, and eternal beautiful human bond???
Does it have anything to do with Egyptian men and women?
Or is it demographics? age, health conditions, the environment, politics, economics ???

It is not within the culture for Egyptian men to comment on the most wonderful relationship/life they have with an Egyptian wife...very few would do so!!!

Monica
Masreya meya meya...

[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 21 April 2004).]

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"Tohaf" means treasure,

Monica I will vote for the environment. As we all know Egypt and especially Upper
Egypt is much polluted and very hot, and as a consequence Egyptian Men got sexually overactive and poor Egyptian Women being circumcised they can not cope. This is when the rescuer (Icy western women and/or men) are needed/in demand even for free

What do you think of my hypothesis? isn’t it cheesy like some theories on this thread, but certainly the best

Cheers

quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:
But there is a very very important issue here...we're hitting 'social classes again...and those women that are unfortunately circumcised are ALL from a very different social class, may I add, even if I will 'annoy' some people...this is a fact!

Within highly educated, and progressive circles, it is not done (women circumcision).

And yes we may be the Egyptians that were privileged enough to have been born under a different roof..and we do not accept sharing...because we were brought up this way and we also choose the Egyptian men that were brought up the same way..that will not take a second wife that is...it may happen here and there but is not accepted at all within our circles...and I respect all circles..but what can we do: C'est la vie!

And Mooly, your theory may be right after all!

[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 21 April 2004).]

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Monica love,

Deux chose,

First my theory was a kind of fiction, there is no evidence that shows that circumcised women can enjoy/perform sex less that uncircumcised ones. And I personally do not think that this is the reason why Men in Upper Egypt do date/having sex/marry Western Women.

Second I have to agree with you regarding the class issue even, if it is not appealing to some. In Egypt, our social class influences to a great extent some of our social behaviour. As you cited, in upper social class in Egypt polygamy is not accepted as well as many other social behaviours that might occur or are being accepted in other social class.

Cheers

quote:

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Originally posted by Mooly El Din:

Correction it is Mr pearce648, in other post he mentioned that he is gay. May be you meant the sexual life of the gay men?

cheers

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lukoshko:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mooly El Din:
[b]
Correction it is Mr pearce648, in other post he mentioned that he is gay. May be you meant the sexual life of the gay men?

cheers

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[/B][/QUOTE]

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Lukoshko, if you have read the posting before this quoted one, you would have seen that I addressed him by Mrs/Ms, that is why I made the correction

[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:
As for this issue of the so called Egyptian “gigolos”, well I’ve heard about it from others as well, not just here. I personally find it utterly disgusting, and have no respect for such sods. However, you (possibly intentionally) ignore the other facet of the story, and that is the women with whom those buggers get involved. I have no more respect for them than for the guys who shag them. Let me make a few points here:
Just as the guys exploit the sexual needs of the old witches (you can swap the “w” with a “b” here if you wish, I’m just writing it this way to avoid swearing), the women equally well exploit the financial needs of the guys. So it’s not that the guys are tricking innocent women or such, it’s being vicious both ways.

A big myth: men are driven by their hormones. Well surprise surprise!! women are as much so as men, if not more, love it or loathe it, it is the truth. Let me try to ellucidate my thesis with a hypothetical situation. Try explaining to a woman in the “west” that you’d like to have a relationship with her, but you don’t want to have intercourse, and you’ll get one of two lines of argument, depending on how the girl views herself. There’s the girl who’s insecure about her looks, she’ll present the “you hate me because I’m fat” argument. Incidentally, I don’t hate fat women, as a matter of fact I find them attractive (save for the excessive cellulite of course), more interestingly though, she’s usually not fat!! . Hey kudos to the chap who mentioned the poem about big buttocks, lol. As for Miss Chastity who called them bosoms and behinds, well hello!! ever heard of boobs & butts, lol. And that’s fairly polite by the way, it’s not vulgar or such.
Anyway, back to our topic, the second line of argument is the “you’re a bloody fag” one. I believe such girls are even more insecure than the former, because it is quite clear to her that I’m not what she’s claiming. She can easily see that certain parts of my anatomy experience certain physiological changes in certain situation involving the two of us, and that’s certain, lol !!! so as you see no uncertainties here
For some reason she is not able to imagine that there might be a gentleman who’s interested in her intellectually, emotionally and physically (in that order), yet doesn’t want to have intercourse with her. Talking about driven by hormones, huh !!! Well, as the great Al Bundy once said, everything was ok until somebody invented the female orgasm, and women started demanding enjoying sex, lol !!!!

At some point in my troubled life I had great interest in feminism, but unfortunately I found that there’s a great deal of hypocrisy involved in it. I like to call it post modern feminism (pmf, hey don’t confuse that with a similar sounding acronym with female related connotations, lol).
So much for the lecture, nuff said for today, I’ll continue some other time if I find the time. Now make space, let me step off the soap box. I know I’ve opened Pandora’s box, and I’ll be shot at from every direction, so start shooting girls, I’ve got my suit of armour on, lol.

MONICA !! ARE YOU STILL HOLDING THOSE CIGARS?? HAVE YOU NO SHAME WOMAN

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Hello Pharaoh
Reading your long message (you have a lot of free time it seems) I could not help laughing! Do you realize how funny you are?

For your information there are many girls (some with big nice buttocks - and NO CELLULITE) who would give 1 inch off their awesome hips to find a guy considerate enough to ask only for their company and not their body, in an effort to get to know each other better. Just keep on looking, you'll find one soon.

And give Monica a break, she's my friend and she's nice. You behave or I'll have Sekmet kick you in your royal ass or buttocks, whichever you prefer.

[/QUOTE]

It is the way life goes on ...