posted
An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty.
He asks one of his new Muslim students to stand and.....
Professor: You are a Muslim, aren't you, son?
Student : Yes, sir.
Prof: So you believe in God?
Student : Absolutely, sir.
Prof: Is God good?
Student : Sure.
Prof: Is God all-powerful?
Student : Yes.
Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm?
(Student is silent.)
Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?
Student :Yes.
Prof: Is Satan good?
Student : No.
Prof: Where does Satan come from?
Student : From...God...
Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?
Student : Yes.
Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. correct?
Student : Yes.
Prof: So who created evil?
(Student does not answer.)
Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they?
Student :Yes, sir.
Prof: So, who created them?
(Student has no answer.)
Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God?
Student : No, sir.
Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?
Student : No , sir.
Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?
Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?
Student : Yes.
Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?
Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.
Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.
Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?
Prof: Yes.
Student : And is there such a thing as cold?
Prof: Yes.
Student : No sir. There isn't.
(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)
Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold.Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.
(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)
Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?
Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?
Student : You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?
Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?
Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.
Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?
Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it.
Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?
Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.
Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?
(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.)
Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?
(The class is in uproar.)
Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?
(The class breaks out into laughter.)
Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it?.....No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?
(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.)
Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.
Student : That is it sir.. The link between man & god is FAITH. That is all that keeps things moving & alive.
Happiness keeps you sweet, Trials keep you strong, Sorrows keep you human, Failures keeps you humble, Success keeps you glowing, But only God Keeps you going
posted
All this explores is the well known idea that a portion of science also requires faith. It doesn't do a thing to defend the professors persecution of religion or god. Also, science DOES NOT say that god doesn't exist, it says that god cannot be detected using present scientific measuring instruments. There are many, many things that science acknowledges as exisiting though science cannot currently measure them. They are detected by our other senses, like when we witness someone growing angry we don't need measurements to prove it.
The student's assumptions of scientific evidence are wrong, and are really not even worth debating because it is so totally off base. For example, evolution is in part observable. How do you think that scientists know that disease causing microbes evolve and develop immunity to our medicines? They can be seen evolving from generation to generation. Scientists have forced evolution in insects by exposing them to different chemicals. The offspring had evolved resistance to the chemicals.
The fact that the Professor is a human being and is walking, talking, and teaching is more than probably evidence of his brain, though I know this part was in jest.
I have nothing wrong with permitting people their faiths, as we all have them. We should all be like scientist in the sense that we explore as much as possible, and let ourselves be corrected time and again by what we find. In the end there is always a level that will be unknown. That could mean that all things are chaotic and arising by random chance, or it could all be by some gods design. Faith will still be a factor.
posted
I think I saw a variety of this with the roles reversed and the atheist student winning. I also think it's very easy to change "Muslim" in the first paragraph to any other monotheistic religion and still get away with it.
If you want to read something real cool about science, faith, and God, read Carl Sagan's Contact (not the movie which sucks and wipes when compared to the book).
posted
Yes, Contact was excellent in these regards. It was totally unexpected also as I just thought the book would be about finding aliens.
Posts: 238 | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Undead: Also, science DOES NOT say that god doesn't exist, it says that god cannot be detected using present scientific measuring instruments.
i'm not sure you can attempt to detect something, when you can't even define the parameters of what it is you're trying to detect. unless i'm mistaken, we as people have yet to agree on a definition of what "god" is.
i'm not sure you can attempt to detect something, when you can't even define the parameters of what it is you're trying to detect. unless i'm mistaken, we as people have yet to agree on a definition of what "god" is.
An Egyptian famous philosopher called Tawfik El-Hakim wrote a short story called “Areny Allah” should be translated to “make me see God”. The story speaks of an old man who has had a child who was very intelligent. The old man used to play with his child and always used to tell him “thanks God that I have you”. So the child told his father ”u always mention God, but who is God or what is God I want to see Him” The old man at that point could not answer his child and decided to find an answer for his child’s question. He asked the religious people in mosques/Churches who gave him dry answers that would not be convincing to a curious intelligent child. He continued his research until he was told about an old wise man who might tell him how to see God. Finally he found the old wise man and told him “I want to see God” The old wise man replied. You can measure the depth of a cup of tea with you finger but you can not do the same to measure the depth of the ocean! So u can not see God with your eyes but you can do that with your heart only. Till the end of the story.
Moral of the story is that we as humans have no mental or physical tools with which we could define or see God.
Perhaps we should define the word “heart” first if it is the tool to see or find God. And that can be the best we can do.
a good story and one that can be twisted in sooooo many ways
one piece of it i find myself struggling/thinkng with tho is this
"Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm? "
why do people die?? - if there is a god then why does he choose to take people away from us when we still need them
i have aked this question many times and never have i heard an answer that makes sense - maybe my muslim friends can enlighten me
a close friend of mine died yesterday - i missed his last phone call and had been unable to get in touch with him - he was one of the best - a lovely person and only 36 years old - he always helped people and was always positive everyone who knew him loved him - so if there is a god why would he take david from us when we needed him??
quote:Originally posted by kay in love: dear prince
a good story and one that can be twisted in sooooo many ways
one piece of it i find myself struggling/thinkng with tho is this
"Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm? "
why do people die?? - if there is a god then why does he choose to take people away from us when we still need them
i have aked this question many times and never have i heard an answer that makes sense - maybe my muslim friends can enlighten me
a close friend of mine died yesterday - i missed his last phone call and had been unable to get in touch with him - he was one of the best - a lovely person and only 36 years old - he always helped people and was always positive everyone who knew him loved him - so if there is a god why would he take david from us when we needed him??
much love kay
Kay,
Actually I just posted this thread without intention of argument not to be like the other threads which turned into a quarrel...but of course everyone has the right to express himself without trying to impose his opinion on others..
Allah (God) created us and told us that death is the grand leveller, the most thing that creatures are characterized with..simply for 2 reasons, first is that eternity in this short life is only a God's quality, secondly Allah told us that this life is just a bridge to the other eternal world..not all of us pass it with the same speed, not all of us reach the end safely...some make good deeds during this time, others make bad things but all will die simply to reach the end. If no death, then there will be no paradise or hell, therefore there will be no Judgment for people like Sharon and Bush for example from one side , and good people from the other side..Just a logic view..Life is like an exam, either u get high marks or u get a complete failure.. Prophets and messenger, which are the best people on earth, died all...the death messenger will be ordered to take his spirit out after all creatures on this earth die..then Allah speaks to himself...where r those who disobeyed me? Where are those who killed innocent people and were tyrants in this life...where r the kings, princes and presidents..etc...then reply himself ...I'm the only king, I'm the only lord... U people ...the life u lived was deeds without judgment..now u r all back to eternal life..judgment without deeds..so either eternal paradise or eternal hill...
quote:Originally posted by GiggleGirl: We are seeing God all the time though, because God is everything. The trees, the grass, the birds. Well, that's what I've been told anyway.
Probably that is meant to be said by Tawfik El-Hakim. That man is amazing in diving deep into human souls.
I remember reading "bird from the east" for him ... almost crying over his emotional "dives."
Al-Hakim also shows much respect for different cultures and religions, and such influence can be easily detected with his masterpieces … may God bless his soul.
------------------ youregypt forum … your convenient answer to your question about Egypt
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