All in all a very good movie.... in my humble opinion this movie pins the blame for the death of christ by the jews...

no matter what religion you are this is one movie people should check out...

quote:

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Originally posted by sane:
Buddy the movie was saddistic. And they said the dude is a good actor, he didn't have to ACT. He just stood there being tortured throughout the movie. I think it was not a good movie. Even for the christians. A successfull movie should have shown how the christ LIVED instead of how he died.

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I disagree with your opinion dude.......lol

Alot of movies has shown the way chirst lived his life... but this one truly is one of the better one about chirst last hours...

quote:

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Originally posted by brian04:
Hi everybody,
When I was in Hong Kong I went to the the movie The Passion of the Chirst. What a movie! It is so sad... made me cry throughout the film. But it was so realastic. Especially when the Romans was beating Christ with Canes and pieces of metal hanging from the bottom of strings. This lasted about 15 minutes...very sad indeed just can imagine anybody having to go through that much torture........my heart dropped..... and when he was crusifaed(sp?) on the cross.. very traumtic.....

All in all a very good movie.... in my humble opinion this movie pins the blame for the death of christ by the jews...

no matter what religion you are this is one movie people should check out...

Salam,
Brian

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now I'm confused, you said a while ago on another thread that you actually have become a Muslim - but that contradicts your statement on the prophet Jesus (as).

Muslims don't believe Jesus (as) is the son of God, nor that he was crucified and not that he was tortured at all at he hands of the jews or romans. This is a very big point of difference in the christian vs. the islamic view... esp. the point about God having any offspring (astaghfirullah)

quote:

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Originally posted by karinfarid:
dear Jutta,

now I'm confused, you said a while ago on another thread that you actually have become a Muslim - but that contradicts your statement on the prophet Jesus (as).

Muslims don't believe Jesus (as) is the son of God, nor that he was crucified and not that he was tortured at all at he hands of the jews or romans. This is a very big point of difference in the christian vs. the islamic view... esp. the point about God having any offspring (astaghfirullah)

salam, Karin

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You are right Karin, and this is one of the biggest problems I have at the moment with my believing in Islam. But thats another story. And too long for here. When I convert to the Islam I luckily found a great and wise Imam who teached me. And he told me, that from all he knows about me, about my thinking, believing and behaving in life, he would think that I am a Muslim by heart, EVEN if I have problems with the one or other sura to believe 100% in. What I can say is, that I truely believe is, that I believe in Allah and his prophet Mohammed. But this is only one side of the medal. If you were ever "hit" by the love and power of Jesus, this is quite hard to "forget". and I talked in another thread also about my near death experience. I am still learning, reading and so on. But more and more, (and I know I will get now a lot of bad and angry threads after this answer), I found soooooo many things in common in the holy religions. And it starts me thinking about it, because the main things which are important are the same in all of them. The main thing, which is so hard and difficult for me to believe, is the fact, that according to all religions you will go to hell EVEN if you have a perfect humanely character, if you are good to everyone and every animal, if you are believing in GOD (however) etc. etc. BUT if you NOT believe in the "right" manner, or if you do not pray in the "right form", then everything is worthless. Of course, "believing" means NOT "knowing" and NOT "understanding" but I believe in a God who looks at your behaviour in life, your respect to life in general and your character and treatment of other creatures, humans and animals first and judges you after that and NOT after how you call him, how you pray to him and of which religion you are. I tried to, and I am still trying, but it seems so wrong and everytime I try to convince myself, I am getting so extremely sad and disappointed that it really hurts me.

I'm sorry if I rub salt in open wounds so to say, I was just wondering. It was a very long journey to Islam for me, too. But knowing that the harder it is, the better the reward for it from God, I really don't mind just take things easy. You are perfectly right, all the monotheistic religions have so many things in common, that is because they all come from the same God, revealed at different times to different people. My teacher told me, that God did send 104 guiding books to mankind, and that Quran sums up all of them.

But frankly I did not have a problem with the prophet Jesus (as) at all, as I at the beginning of my journey did not believe in anything, not even God (astaghfirullah) just in something very vague, a strange sort of power thing, which I did not dare to give a name.

If you read the Quran you'll find that Jesus' (as) name is mentioned much more often than Mohamed (saw), he is one of the most honored prophets, and there is no believing Muslim who does not have to believe from his heart that Jesus (as) 1) was born without a father (virgin birth) 2) that he healed the blind, the leper by the leave of God 3) that he raised up the dead by the leave of God, etc. Jesus (as) and his mother (rAa) are kept in very high regard and reputation throughout the Islamic world. The real difference is that there is red line, which is to attribute to him that he is God/the Son of God/one of three entities that are God etc.

anyway I wish you all the best and if you have any question on your mind, I'd be glad to find the answer together with you. Not that I'm such a wise person but I am in contact with people who have so far always been able to answer my questions in a way that satisfied my mind and my heart.

quote:

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Originally posted by karinfarid:
dear Jutta,

I'm sorry if I rub salt in open wounds so to say, I was just wondering. It was a very long journey to Islam for me, too. But knowing that the harder it is, the better the reward for it from God, I really don't mind just take things easy. You are perfectly right, all the monotheistic religions have so many things in common, that is because they all come from the same God, revealed at different times to different people. My teacher told me, that God did send 104 guiding books to mankind, and that Quran sums up all of them.

But frankly I did not have a problem with the prophet Jesus (as) at all, as I at the beginning of my journey did not believe in anything, not even God (astaghfirullah) just in something very vague, a strange sort of power thing, which I did not dare to give a name.

If you read the Quran you'll find that Jesus' (as) name is mentioned much more often than Mohamed (saw), he is one of the most honored prophets, and there is no believing Muslim who does not have to believe from his heart that Jesus (as) 1) was born without a father (virgin birth) 2) that he healed the blind, the leper by the leave of God 3) that he raised up the dead by the leave of God, etc. Jesus (as) and his mother (rAa) are kept in very high regard and reputation throughout the Islamic world. The real difference is that there is red line, which is to attribute to him that he is God/the Son of God/one of three entities that are God etc.

anyway I wish you all the best and if you have any question on your mind, I'd be glad to find the answer together with you. Not that I'm such a wise person but I am in contact with people who have so far always been able to answer my questions in a way that satisfied my mind and my heart.

all the best & salam,
Karin

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I tell you, it was exactly as I was taught. It was not a playground for children, just real pain and humiliation because His ideas were to revolutionary, perhaps. It’s not a story about Jewish. It’s a story about our- human being reactions in that situation
.
I think it has got very universal meaning, especially nowadays. I think nobody can answer why it all happened like that, why there are more than 1 religion. There is one God. And human being interpretation. I see it like that. It’s not good to fight who is right. We, people, hurt each other, cause all the mess. With a great help of not good power using very modern technological equipment.

I don’t know how it is, but I was thought that all this happened on the Earth to give a human being a free will. It could be so easy to just force us to follow Him.

I’m just worry, I don’t know how it’s in your religion about signs of Armageddon ( the end) will be caused by fighting between Muslim and Christians. Perhaps. Hopefully not. A person who appear can play that is good for Jewish, Christians and Muslim and all believe him. And ask to attack.False prophet. I don’t know. No, I don’t want to discuss it. I don’t know anything.

Just stay in peace in any religion. No religion which has got so rich backgrounds should be attacked.
Take care
Gebo

Salam,
Brian[/QUOTE]

quote:

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Originally posted by gebo:
Hi girls,
I should study right now, but this topic is very close to me. Many people find this movie controversial. I think Mel Gibson knew what he did. And you will see more brutality in many other films than here. And people are not shocked, not confused. They even like it.

I tell you, it was exactly as I was taught. It was not a playground for children, just real pain and humiliation because His ideas were to revolutionary, perhaps. It’s not a story about Jewish. It’s a story about our- human being reactions in that situation
.
I think it has got very universal meaning, especially nowadays. I think nobody can answer why it all happened like that, why there are more than 1 religion. There is one God. And human being interpretation. I see it like that. It’s not good to fight who is right. We, people, hurt each other, cause all the mess. With a great help of not good power using very modern technological equipment.

I don’t know how it is, but I was thought that all this happened on the Earth to give a human being a free will. It could be so easy to just force us to follow Him.

I’m just worry, I don’t know how it’s in your religion about signs of Armageddon ( the end) will be caused by fighting between Muslim and Christians. Perhaps. Hopefully not. A person who appear can play that is good for Jewish, Christians and Muslim and all believe him. And ask to attack.False prophet. I don’t know. No, I don’t want to discuss it. I don’t know anything.

Just stay in peace in any religion. No religion which has got so rich backgrounds should be attacked.
Take care
Gebo

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quote:

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Originally posted by sane:
I think it was not a good movie. Even for the christians. A successfull movie should have shown how the christ LIVED instead of how he died.

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I think you missing the point why the movie came out in the first place. If you not christian so I don't blame you looking at the movie like any other one (pop corn in one hand and soft drink in the other) but if you are christian, you find it easy to realize it's the best movie you might ever see.
All movies featuring famous figures used to tell you how they lived .. but if you are about to tell the life of THE ONE (the alpha and omega) (the beginning and the end) you need to know how he died specially when his death was for you.

In Islam there is no problem with a person doubting. Even if you doubt the existence of God for a while, there is no problem as long as you don't clearly say that you no longer believe in God (kufr). Full belief is called Iman (faith?) and is distinct and different from Islam. Iman takes a long time to achieve and it takes profound introspection that not all people are capable of. So does that mean that everyone who does not achieve Iman is going to hell? No, Islam does offer an alternative. You can just be ethical and follow the teachings of Islam: Don't lie, don't cheat, don't kill, etc.. And that should be enough for God. Iman is definitely a degree higher than plain Islam, but not everyone can reach it.

So you see, if someone leads a totally ethical life but can't really understand the nature of God, then no problem, that person is not necessarily going to hell. It's like that hadith about the person who helped the dog drink from the well (in animals and Islam thread). Why does the person go to heaven? It's because God does not account for us in terms of our philosophy or theology, God accounts in terms of our deeds. And it's not the number of deeds either, it's how good and pure you are when you do these deeds, that's why something as simple as feeding a dog or starving a cat can decide someone's fate.

And there is no problem with you loving and respecting Jesus. But there are red lines as Karin said. One of them is that Jesus can't be thought of as part of the divinity, Jesus is human. A special human being but still human. Another red line is original sin and the sacrifice of Jesus. We don't believe in original sin, we don't believe we inherit our father's sins. So we don't believe Jesus died for us, actually we don't believe Jesus died at all. We don't believe that salvation needs such an extreme act, nor do we believe that blind faith in that matter is necessary to go to heaven.

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Originally posted by LadyYuna:
Well since I'm Muslim, I have no interest in seeing this movie. For one, Muslims don't believe that Isa (Jesus) went through any of that. Two, it's actually haram (forbidden) for a Muslim to watch any prophet being depicted in any way, shape. or form. Three, I don't like sadistic movies. I'd much rather watch Lord of the Rings.

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Please forgive me for saying ... you don't have to believe in something to watch it.
You should watch to learn how other people see things, simply as you wish that non Muslims should know about Muslims without the need to believe in Islam.

This is one step forward towards understanding between beliefs.

And according to the Ulemas (Muslim Scholars), showing actors in movies is haram, not watching them; that means the perpetrator, not the eyewitness.

I was Christian for 18 years. I even went to Catholic High School...graduated in a Basilica and everything. I'm well aware of how Christians see things. And being that I studied all the religions of the world (From Jainism, to Judaism, to Shinto) for 4 years before taking shahada, I feel I have a pretty good outlook on other people's mentalities. I work with the general public all day everyday in an extremely diverse area here in Washington DC. And I'm well known for knowing a bit about everyone's culture, religion, or language in order to make them feel comfortable. Besides, I don’t need a Mel Gibson Hollywood movie to teach me anything about the way people see things. I learn these things from the people themselves, not from the cinema. And if someone ever wants to learn about Islam or Muslims, I would hope they would visit a mosque or the home of Muslims in their area, not visit the local AMC 20.

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Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:
.

I know some of you will hate me for saying this but I’ll say it anyway.
These scenes reflect the mentality and values prevalent in the “west”, and those are: motivation solely by self-interest, utter disregard for justice, human rights and indeed the sanctity and dignity of the human body.
Having said that, I acknowledge that there are many exceptions, but this is the prevalent mood in politics.
Let me repeat that for emphasis "in politics".

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:

1- the questioning in the presence of the roman leader. He was standing up there, representing the super power, the rabbis were almost dictating to him that he should persecute the accused. And even though he was reluctant to do it, eventually he did accept their verdict, not out of fear of them mind you, but out of pure self interest.
Present day analogy: the Romans represent America, the rabbis, well you know who. And the accused represents Palastine, the Arabs or even the Moslems in general. So whilst America (and the whole world for that matter) knows the right thing, they choose to ignore it and persecute the innocent, and hold them responsible just because it serves their purpose.
.

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Excellent, the same idea is conveyed in "Master and Margarita" by Mihail Bulgakov, except for the book was written in the 1930s, so there was no inference to the present day politics, of course, rather than a general philosophical thread and historical account of events back then. Pontius Pilat in fact enjoyed conversations with Jesus. But I 'd say Romans were afraid of the Jewish revolt and secured their own political interests by crucifying Jesus. Classics's philosophical discoveries are timeless truths, fruit of deep thinking, so it is applicable to any time period.

it is really Israel that rules the world, not USA. Also the British government is way more clever and let America think it is in charge...they learned their lesson in the region long time ago.

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Originally posted by katrina:
Rameses, your majesty, hey, "drop that cigar of yours"! heeheh I am all for a little exchange of friendly fires. I am fiesty enough. I can "beat up" guys in academics, debates, running, skiing, swimming. So go ahead. ok we can wait for Monica to come back. Do you really think you can "wrestle" two women?

[This message has been edited by katrina (edited 09 May 2004).]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Monica:
heeeey.... count me out of this...
You guys have a good time!

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Monica, I meant "debate"

Universal story

After all what I have seen about Iraq connected with this film, all my existence says “no!” for this inhuman act! – The woman- soldier from NATO – very moral organization which seem to prepare people to treat others with dignity, as they would like to be treated– humiliated powerless soldiers- enemies.
I heard that the person responsible for that, whatever his name is right now – it changes- is fired.
No more about it in media! Silence!
However, after that horrible picture of the naked Iraq man with the collar showed in our TV, similar to those which I saw in the 2nd war, nobody said anything!
Nobody!
Yes, I know about lamps made of human being skin from camps in the 2nd war, but after this people said: NO! Promised it never happen again!

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Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:

hey Katrina, I've posted to the other thread about egyptian men but it didn't show. I was suggesting we take the fight over there
I just feel it's inappropriate and probably even disrespectful to have such talk in a thread about religion, irrespective of our religions.
see even dirty old Ramses has morals and values, lol.
so I suggest we refrain from this talk around here.
see you all next weekend.
until then "take care of yourselves, and each other"

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ramses nemesis:

hey Katrina, I've posted to the other thread about egyptian men but it didn't show. I was suggesting we take the fight over there
I just feel it's inappropriate and probably even disrespectful to have such talk in a thread about religion, irrespective of our religions.
see even dirty old Ramses has morals and values, lol.
so I suggest we refrain from this talk around here.
see you all next weekend.
until then "take care of yourselves, and each other"

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Ramses, you'd better show respect on any thread