quote:Originally posted by ausar: Also,the saints in Egypt have really nothing to do with Islam. When most Saidi in regions like Minya or Luxor converted to Islam most came in the form of Sufism. Sufism is still Islam but much different from Sunni Islam.
This is not true, as a Muslim of the Sufi discipline I must say it is definitely not the case. Sufism is not "much different from Sunni Islam". Sufism is not a religion.
Also, the data which was collected linking Egyptians most closely to Algerians (looking at the Y chromosome) was retrieved from this site www.racearchives.com which is currently down. It had genetic distance calculations between different ethnic groups. Also if I'm not mistaken Egypt was invaded and actually conquered at least once by western North Africans.
[This message has been edited by El Kadafi (edited 10 May 2004).]
quote:Also, the data which was collected linking Egyptians most closely to Algerians (looking at the Y chromosome) was retrieved from this site www.racearchives.com <http://www.racearchives.com> which is currently down. It had genetic distance calculations between different ethnic groups. Also if I'm not mistaken Egypt was invaded and actually conquered at least once by western North Africans.''
Yeah,but most Sa3eadi Egyptians are actually closer to Northeastern Africans than Northwestern Africans. Egyptians brought Libyan[berber] mercenaries to the Eastern Delta to settled in and some began to intermarry with Egyptians.
The Race calculator uses old Data from Cavalli Sfoza and actually is very old. Look up a thing called allele and discover which ones are specific to Egyptians and which one is specific to other people. The Berber halpotype is U6 and HG22 which is found in 22% of modern Egyptians. I can assure you though that L2 and L3 are the most common halptypes in Southern Egypt where I come from.
See the following for more information:
One thing is to note the occurance of Western Asian halpotypes is most likley from Arab admixture amung some Sa3eadi people in Upper Egypt.
Y-chromosome Haplotypes in Egypt
to appear in American Journal of Physical Anthropology Brief communication: Y-chromosome haplotypes in Egypt G. Lucotte *, G. Mercier International Institute of Anthropology, Paris, France ABSTRACT
We analyzed Y-chromosome haplotypes in the Nile River Valley in Egypt in 274 unrelated males, using the p49a,f TaqI polymorphism. These individuals were born in three regions along the river: in Alexandria (the Delta and Lower Egypt), in Upper Egypt, and in Lower Nubia. Fifteen different p49a,f TaqI haplotypes are present in Egypt, the three most common being haplotype V (39.4%), haplotype XI (18.9%), and haplotype IV (13.9%). Haplotype V is a characteristic Arab haplotype, with a northern geographic distribution in Egypt in the Nile River Valley. Haplotype IV, characteristic of sub-Saharan populations, shows a southern geographic distribution in Egypt. Am J Phys Anthropol 121:000-000, 2003. Đ 2003 Wiley-Liss, Inc. .. As for mtDNA (Krings et al., [1999]), the present study on the Y- chromosome haplotype shows that there are northern and southern Y- haplotypes in Egypt. The main Y-haplotype V is a northern haplotype, with a significantly different frequency in the north compared to the south of the country: frequencies of haplotype V are 51.9% in the Delta (location A), 24.2% in Upper Egypt (location B), and 17.4% in Lower Nubia (location C). On the other hand, haplotype IV is a typical southern haplotype, being almost absent in A (1.2%), and preponderant in B (27.3%) and C (39.1%). Haplotype XI also shows a preponderance in the south (in C, 30.4%; B, 28.8%) compared to the north (11.7% in A) of the country. In mtDNA, sequences of the first hypervariable HpaI site at position 3592 allowed Krings et al. ([1999]) to designate each mtDNA as being of northern or southern affiliation, and proportions of northern and southern mtDNA differed significantly between Egypt, Nubia, and the Southern Sudan. It is interesting to relate this peculiar north/south differentiation, a pattern of genetic variation deriving from the two uniparentally inherited genetic systems (mtDNA and Y chromosome), to specific historic events. Since the beginning of Egyptian history (3200-3100 B.C.), the legendary king Menes united Upper and Lower Egypt. Migration from north to south may coincide with the Pharaonic colonization of Nubia, which occurred initially during the Middle Kingdom (12th Dynasty, 1991-1785 B.C.), and more permanently during the New Kingdom, from the reign of Thotmosis III (1490-1437 B.C.). The main migration from south to north may coincide with the 25th Dynasty (730-655 B.C.), when kings from Napata (in Nubia) conquered Egypt. .. Concerning less frequent Y-haplotypes in Egypt, haplotype VIII is characteristic of Semitic populations, originating in the Near East (Lucotte et al., [1993]). For example (Lucotte et al., [1996]), the frequency of haplotype VIII is 26.2% among North African Jews (where it represents the majority haplotype) and 77.5% among Jews from the island of Djerba (Tunisia), reaching 85.1% among Oriental (from Iraq, Iran, and Syria) Jews. Similarly, haplotype VII had a general geographical distribution fairly identical to that of haplotype VIII (which it often accompanies as a secondary haplotype); haplotype VII distinguishes itself by increased preponderance north of the Mediterranean and in Eastern Europe (Lucotte et al., [1996]). Haplotype XV is the most widespread Y-haplotype in Western Europe (Lucotte and Hazout, [1996]), where its frequency decreases from west to east (Semino et al., [1996]; Lucotte and Loirat, [1999]). Haplotypes VIII, VII, and XV are less common haplotypes in Egypt (7.3%, 6.6%, and 5.5%, respectively), and tend to be located in the north of the country, near the Mediterranean coast. Possibly haplotypes VIII, VII, and XV represent, respectively, Near East, Greek, and Roman influences. _____ noitice that VI are common southern markers.
Ann Hum Genet. 2004 Jan;68(1):23-39. Related Articles, Links
Mitochondrial DNA Sequence Diversity in a Sedentary Population from Egypt.
Stevanovitch A, Gilles A, Bouzaid E, Kefi R, Paris F, Gayraud RP, Spadoni JL, El-Chenawi F, Beraud-Colomb E.
The mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) diversity of 58 individuals from Upper Egypt, more than half (34 individuals) from Gurna, whose population has an ancient cultural history, were studied by sequencing the control-region and screening diagnostic RFLP markers. This sedentary population presented similarities to the Ethiopian population by the L1 and L2 macrohaplogroup frequency (20.6%), by the West Eurasian component (defined by haplogroups H to K and T to X) and particularly by a high frequency (17.6%) of haplogroup M1. We statistically and phylogenetically analysed and compared the Gurna population with other Egyptian, Near East and sub-Saharan Africa populations; AMOVA and Minimum Spanning Network analysis showed that the Gurna population was not isolated from neighbouring populations. Our results suggest that the Gurna population has conserved the trace of an ancestral genetic structure from an ancestral East African population, characterized by a high M1 haplogroup frequency. The current structure of the Egyptian population may be the result of further influence of neighbouring populations on this ancestral population.
''
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Egyptians are Arabs no matter how you slice it. Yes a big chunk are not desendent from Arabic tribs. But most modern egyptian are arabs and if you don't accept that than you are in denial or you want mislead people
quote:Originally posted by neo*geo: Are Egyptians Arabs? No and maybe so. I think we are all in agreement that Egyptians aren't racially Arabs. As far as Egyptians being culturally Arab goes, it all depends on the degree that they are similar to Saudis, and Yemenis.
What I mean is, different countries can and do share the same language and similar culture, and even history but have independent identities. For example, Ireland, the US, and Canada were all part of Britain as recently as the past 200 years. All four countries have unique dialects of English, all four have relatively similar cultures, and all share Britain's history. However, Americans are Americans, Canadians are Canadians, and no one dare call an Irish person British. I'm not sure how closely these comparisons relate to Egypt. My only point is that cultural and linguistic affinities do not mean that two different countries share the same identity.
Ultimately, the question of whether Egyptians are Arabs or just simply Egyptians can only be answered by Egyptians. Unless someone here can prove their argument with poll results, it's just something that we'll have to agree to disagree on...
posted
to suggest that a poll is needed is rediculose, why don't you poll the italians to see if they are italians or not. why do we have to question basic stuff, Is it only to please few Afrocentric people. You still could not answer why would egyptian relate to Arabic and muslim historic figures, why would egyptians react to the situation in Iraq and palastine the way they do. Why do egyptian have Arabic names? some one suggested that it is due to bad school and lack of historical knowledge, although he could not denay that the overwhelming majority of Egyptians will relate to Arabic and muslim historic figures, he could not bring him self to admit that this means that egyptians are Arabs, after all that what people on the street will tell you they are indeed arabs but what do those poor misguided egyptian know about their own identity. They have to wait for some one else to poll them before they can establish an identity. They have to listen to Afrocentirc people before establishing an identity. and by the way all egyptian will proudly point out to you that they are desendeant of the Mighty egyptian Pharos without seeing that conflict with whom there current arabic identity. If you dont believe me you can look at the egyptian consitution, Egypt arabic name has the Arabic republic in it. But what do the law maker know about their country national identity!! quOTE]Originally posted by neo*geo:
Ultimately, the question of whether Egyptians are Arabs or just simply Egyptians can only be answered by Egyptians. Unless someone here can prove their argument with poll results, it's just something that we'll have to agree to disagree on...[/B][/QUOTE]
quote:Originally posted by DubaiDoctor: why do we have to question basic stuff, Is it only to please few Afrocentric people.
I don't conider myself and Afrocentric an if I recall correctly, it was an Egyptian poster who started this topic. I've only known a few Egyptians personally in my lifetime and out of that few, several have said that Egyptians aren't Arabs. Even if it's a minority of Egyptians who don't identify themselves as Arabs, this topic still has legitimacy. Let Egyptians speak for themselves, why are you their spokesperson?
quote:Originally posted by DubaiDoctor: You still could not answer why would egyptian relate to Arabic and muslim historic figures, why would egyptians react to the situation in Iraq and palastine the way they do. Why do egyptian have Arabic names?
This is a very weak argument. Any civilization that has spent centuries colonized by people from foriegn lands will adopt aspects of that culture.
Why do people in South America identify with Spanish and Christian historical figures?
Why do people in the Phillipines have Spanish names?
quote:Originally posted by DubaiDoctor: some one suggested that it is due to bad school and lack of historical knowledge, although he could not denay that the overwhelming majority of Egyptians will relate to Arabic and muslim historic figures, he could not bring him self to admit that this means that egyptians are Arabs,
It's no question that Egyptians are tied into Arab history from the 7th century till the present. However, I think Ausur's point was that Egyptian schools don't teach enough Egyptian history. Egypt's history didn't begin in when the Arabs came, it began long before and Westernes are often more knowledgable about Egypt's historical figures than Egyptians.
[This message has been edited by neo*geo (edited 11 May 2004).]
posted
Duabi,most modern Egyptians come from Fellahin who lived mostly in the countryside during the Islamic Caliphte. Arabs never completely replaced the inhabitants wherever they went. Arabs certainly never mixed with the Fellahin because most Arab Caliphte counsidered such peasent unworthy of mixing. You also forget about the concept of Mawali which was forced upon Egyptian Muslim converts.
In one sentence you you say a big chunk are desendant of Arabic tribes;yet in the other you say most Egyptians will point out they are direct desendants of the pharoahs. Do you know how this sounds? You make absolutley no sense .
Anyway,many Egyptians also name their children non-Islamic names that probabaly have a pharoanic origin. What about names like Bayumi and Bishoy which have pre-Islamic origins.
The other question is why you keep assoiciating Islam with Arabs. Most Muslims across the world are in Indonesia not Arabia. Islam is not just a religion for Arabs,but for all humanity according to what the phophet Mohammed[pbuh] laid out. Most great Islamic scienitist,leaders,and other people were mostly non-Arab. Saladeen was a Kurd;Al Razi was a Persian;,and literary giant Al Jahiz was a Mawali African who wrote wonderful literature.
Identifying with the Palestinean cause means absoltuley nothing to being Arab. I reject the position of the Israelis. I do it because out of human devotion against injuustice to an opressed people. Nothing more and nothing less.
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Look you are missing my point, although lots of egyptians do not descend from Arabic tribes, they are currently arabs and refer to them selfs as Arabs. Just like Americans they come from all sorts of places but eventually milt in and become some what homogenous. why is that difficult to understand. What I am saying make perfect sense. For the zillion time there are many (more than any one can count, more than just names) example of Pharoic influence in ALL ASPECTS of modern egyptian but that does not stand in the way of modern EGYPTIANs being Arabs BECAUSE modern egyptians refer to them selfs as ARABS. i am sorry that does not fit into your Africanocentic agneda, I am truely sorry but I find it very trobling that you chose to dismiss the way that egyptians today wish to refer to them selfs and try hard to come up with excuse like poor schooling. If you reject the Israeli position that does not make you an Arab but if you reject the Israili position and you go to war 4 times and on top of that State that you an ARAB than By GOD YOU ARE AN ARAB. why is that too hard to understand.
I don't want to go off topic but we can have a discussion of how Arabs as people evolved and constantly accepted people from other non arabic groups. You see ARABS racially are non Homogenous group that are composed of mainly Sametic but with significant Black and caucasian contribution due to proximity to Africa and Europe, that is why describtian of Physical apperance of early Arabs included white, tanned and black people. traditionally in pre-Islamic era Arabs in their pennensila were divided to 1) Adnenite "Arabs of the North, Syria/Jordan/Iraq and N saudi" have fair skin and tall and 2) Qahtanites (Arabs of the South "Yemen, SW Saudi, Oman") are short and have a darker skin. This division still can be seen today although with arab re-seatlment you can see both phenotypes in the same area. I find it hailrious when people here say that egyptians look differnt than other Arabs. Ther is no typical arab look as we come in differnet colurs and forms. Just go and look at Syria/Jordan and yemen you'll find people that look totally different from each other but yet they are both Arabs. So it was only natural when non arab egyptians actually joined us to accept them easily. The reson why I mention Islam is to point out that there is many tie with egypt. Earlier in this thread some body said that we can all agree that there is no connection betweeen Arabs and egyptians and I could not let this pass without pointing out Islam "Elephent in the room that people chose to ignore" among other recent and past historic factors and you can go back and read the thread
posted by ausar: Duabi,most modern Egyptians come from Fellahin who lived mostly in the countryside during the Islamic Caliphte. Arabs never completely replaced the inhabitants wherever they went. Arabs certainly never mixed with the Fellahin because most Arab Caliphte counsidered such peasent unworthy of mixing. You also forget about the concept of Mawali which was forced upon Egyptian Muslim converts.
In one sentence you you say a big chunk are desendant of Arabic tribes;yet in the other you say most Egyptians will point out they are direct desendants of the pharoahs. Do you know how this sounds? You make absolutley no sense .
Anyway,many Egyptians also name their children non-Islamic names that probabaly have a pharoanic origin. What about names like Bayumi and Bishoy which have pre-Islamic origins.
The other question is why you keep assoiciating Islam with Arabs. Most Muslims across the world are in Indonesia not Arabia. Islam is not just a religion for Arabs,but for all humanity according to what the phophet Mohammed[pbuh] laid out. Most great Islamic scienitist,leaders,and other people were mostly non-Arab. Saladeen was a Kurd;Al Razi was a Persian;,and literary giant Al Jahiz was a Mawali African who wrote wonderful literature.
Identifying with the Palestinean cause means absoltuley nothing to being Arab. I reject the position of the Israelis. I do it because out of human devotion against injuustice to an opressed people. Nothing more and nothing less.
[/QUOTE]
[This message has been edited by DubaiDoctor (edited 12 May 2004).]
posted
"This is agreed by all,but the fact that Egyptians share nothing in common with Arabs besides language should be emphaized"
These are the exact words from this thread so we can put to rest your question to way I bring up the religion as an important factor in Arab-Arab relationship. Actually I think the above quote comes from you. religion is one major unifying factor among Arabs wether you like it or not. I am truly shocked. I really don't how any one can say that there is nothing that connects egyptians to Arabs, after all egypt was and always will be a leader of arabic world in all aspect.
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Duabi,most modern Egyptians come from Fellahin who lived mostly in the countryside during the Islamic Caliphte. Arabs never completely replaced the inhabitants wherever they went. Arabs certainly never mixed with the Fellahin because most Arab Caliphte counsidered such peasent unworthy of mixing. You also forget about the concept of Mawali which was forced upon Egyptian Muslim converts.
In one sentence you you say a big chunk are desendant of Arabic tribes;yet in the other you say most Egyptians will point out they are direct desendants of the pharoahs. Do you know how this sounds? You make absolutley no sense .
Anyway,many Egyptians also name their children non-Islamic names that probabaly have a pharoanic origin. What about names like Bayumi and Bishoy which have pre-Islamic origins.
The other question is why you keep assoiciating Islam with Arabs. Most Muslims across the world are in Indonesia not Arabia. Islam is not just a religion for Arabs,but for all humanity according to what the phophet Mohammed[pbuh] laid out. Most great Islamic scienitist,leaders,and other people were mostly non-Arab. Saladeen was a Kurd;Al Razi was a Persian;,and literary giant Al Jahiz was a Mawali African who wrote wonderful literature.
Identifying with the Palestinean cause means absoltuley nothing to being Arab. I reject the position of the Israelis. I do it because out of human devotion against injuustice to an opressed people. Nothing more and nothing less.
[This message has been edited by DubaiDoctor (edited 12 May 2004).]
quote:Originally posted by DubaiDoctor: religion is one major unifying factor among Arabs wether you like it or not. I am truly shocked. I really don't how any person can say something that is totlly wrong.
Islam isn't exclusive to Arabs. Most Muslims are non-Arab.
posted
You keep calling me Afrocentric reguardless of the fact that I am in reality Egyptocentric. I believe the majority of modern Egyptians retain an unbroken chain going back to ancient Egypt. No need to call names or expouse nothing more than strawman arguments.
Many great Egyptian leaders of the past like Mohammed Abdu,Sheikh Tahtawi,and Saad Zaghul all rjected the notion that Egyptians were Arabs. Egyptians in modern times have always had a distinct history with a distinct nationality that extends back to pharoanic times. This is not flaunting the history of Egypt,but telling the truth how things really are. You are correct that Egypt sticks it neck out in defense of the Arabic nations but nobody does anything to help Egypt develop into a modern nation that it surely deserves to be.
Again I ask you what gives you the authority to question who exactly the Egyptians are. In the previous Egyptology forum you accused others of stealing Egyptian history yet you are doing the same to modern day Egyptians who want to sense a means of their very own history. Because the notion that pan-Arabization has been crammed down our throats does not mean that all of us reveal in such splendor of Pan-Arabism. Personally,I am Pan-Egyptian and not Pan-Arab. Nasser partial Arab heritage lead Egyptians down a road of pusedo Pan-Arabization when most should have followed in lead of the great previous thinkers well before Nasser like Saad Zaghul. Not only would modern Egypt be a democracy but probabaly would be more advanced than it is today.
Again I ask you what Egyptians or Egypt has gained from Pan_Arabism?
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I don't know that Egypt gain anything from Pan Arabism, but that does not mean they are not Arabs. I don't know if any arabic country gained anything from Pan-Arabism. Again I agree that there is a strong Pharoic influence on egyptians after all they are rightfully inherited them.
I don't think that Mohammed Abdu, Tahtawi, and Saad Zaghul said that Egyptians are Not arabsI don't believe that is a true charcterization of those people and even if they did ALMOST ALL EGYPTIANS WILL REFFER to them selfe as Arabs
Nobody dose anthing to help egypt you say, what can the Arabs do. Don't give me the crap that Arabic gulf countries are rich becouse they are not rich enough to get egypt out of its massive problems. If those countries are not as modern as rest of the world how could they help egypt to modernize? why don't you try to be little bit fair, after allegypt is the biggest arabic country population wise and helping it out is no easy job.
quote:Originally posted by ausar: You keep calling me Afrocentric reguardless of the fact that I am in reality Egyptocentric. I believe the majority of modern Egyptians retain an unbroken chain going back to ancient Egypt. No need to call names or expouse nothing more than strawman arguments.
Many great Egyptian leaders of the past like Mohammed Abdu,Sheikh Tahtawi,and Saad Zaghul all rjected the notion that Egyptians were Arabs. Egyptians in modern times have always had a distinct history with a distinct nationality that extends back to pharoanic times. This is not flaunting the history of Egypt,but telling the truth how things really are. You are correct that Egypt sticks it neck out in defense of the Arabic nations but nobody does anything to help Egypt develop into a modern nation that it surely deserves to be.
Again I ask you what gives you the authority to question who exactly the Egyptians are. In the previous Egyptology forum you accused others of stealing Egyptian history yet you are doing the same to modern day Egyptians who want to sense a means of their very own history. Because the notion that pan-Arabization has been crammed down our throats does not mean that all of us reveal in such splendor of Pan-Arabism. Personally,I am Pan-Egyptian and not Pan-Arab. Nasser partial Arab heritage lead Egyptians down a road of pusedo Pan-Arabization when most should have followed in lead of the great previous thinkers well before Nasser like Saad Zaghul. Not only would modern Egypt be a democracy but probabaly would be more advanced than it is today.
Again I ask you what Egyptians or Egypt has gained from Pan_Arabism?
posted
"Again I ask you what gives you the authority to question who exactly the Egyptians are"
1)The Egyptian consitution, which clearlty indiacte that egypt is an Arabic nation. 2)official name of Egypt is Jumhoriat Masr Al-Arabia which means the Arabian republic of Egypt. 3) egypt is a founder of the Arab league and it fought tooth and nail to bring back the head quarter back to cairo.
You see I have plenty to back my position from egyptian law and constiution, and no Matter how hard you try and twist the facts you can't get over this high towering heardle my dear friend so why don't you admit it. You can hide behind so many things and try to mis lead people on this site but the egyptian constitution is out there exposing you and it leaves no dought about the identity of modern egyptian, The egyptian law and constitution present you with the truth. so you can yell you can screem but you won't change the fact that egyptians are arabs.
It is funny that you keep asking questions and I do answer them, and I do acknoweledge what ever valid point you make but you never seem to acknowledge any thing no matter how convincing they are. I assume that the eguptian constitution will also go without answering, but again what do the Egyptian constitution know about egyptian identity!!!
[This message has been edited by DubaiDoctor (edited 12 May 2004).]
[This message has been edited by DubaiDoctor (edited 12 May 2004).]
posted
Those last points are valid, but are far from definitive. When Egypt was with Rome, and called itself part of the Roman empire, it did not make the people Romans. The cases that you stated were drawn up during the Pan-Arabic movement, so there is a political ideology that motivated the "Arab" titles and association, one that has since been all but extinguished. Quite a few people want their indigenous identity back, and if you look at many of the new exhibits and government buildings you can see more and more Pharaonic influence creeping in over the Arabic or "Islamic" (term used loosely) that was standard. Good points anyway, on both sides of the arguement.
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quote:Originally posted by ausar: Anyway,many Egyptians also name their children non-Islamic names that probabaly have a pharoanic origin. What about names like Bayumi and Bishoy which have pre-Islamic origins.
I don't believe in "Islamic names", your name could be Chris and you could be Muslim. Good genetics post by the way.
DubaiDoctor I'm not surprised you're a gulf arab. What you're saying is completely absurd, how the hell can a gulf arab tell Egyptians what they are. Egyptians are ANYTHING BUT descendents from "arab tribes" thank God we have nothing to do with their racist primitive tribalistic culture. The fact that God sent Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to the Arab nation should tell you that they had to be very very bad people for God to have sent them a Prophet.
You gulf arabs don't do anything for other arabs, Muslims, or jihad. You're too busy bending over to white Amerikkka and Europe or buying fancy cars and white concubines. In Arab countries if you are black they will yell at you calling you a slave. This has no part in Egyptian culture. Primitive unIslamic tribal nationalism that your arab kin act upon (Africa and Asia) also never did and never will have a place in Egyptian culture. It's amazing that someone who lives in an Arab (and supposedly Muslim) country occupied by the kuffar is preaching to Egyptians that they are tribalistic Arabs while all totally logical arguments are deemed "afrocentric". Sorry we're not more "semetocentric"? The closer relations Egypt has with MUSLIM Arab countries the better, but it is to be acknowledged and emphasized that we are simply not Arabs nor do we share your tribalistic wealth-idolizing culture. Egyptians are very good Muslims and Christians.
As a final note, it is said that the Dajjal will come to power thanks to the actions of some foolish arab bedouin.
posted
(Egyptians are ANYTHING BUT descendents from "arab tribes")
I never said that all Egyptians are descendant from Arabic tribes. some are though, some egyptians are descnedant from varity of different ethnic groubs that ruled and lived in egypt. a big chunk or majority are descendand from from AE. Any way, the Egyptian constitution says that modern Egyptian are arabs and Egypt offical name translates to THE ARABIAN REPUBLIC OF EGYPT
As to the rest of your message i won't even bother to replay.
QUOTE]Originally posted by El Kadafi: I don't believe in "Islamic names", your name could be Chris and you could be Muslim. Good genetics post by the way.
DubaiDoctor I'm not surprised you're a gulf arab. What you're saying is completely absurd, how the hell can a gulf arab tell Egyptians what they are. Egyptians are ANYTHING BUT descendents from "arab tribes" thank God we have nothing to do with their racist primitive tribalistic culture. The fact that God sent Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to the Arab nation should tell you that they had to be very very bad people for God to have sent them a Prophet.
You gulf arabs don't do anything for other arabs, Muslims, or jihad. You're too busy bending over to white Amerikkka and Europe or buying fancy cars and white concubines. In Arab countries if you are black they will yell at you calling you a slave. This has no part in Egyptian culture. Primitive unIslamic tribal nationalism that your arab kin act upon (Africa and Asia) also never did and never will have a place in Egyptian culture. It's amazing that someone who lives in an Arab (and supposedly Muslim) country occupied by the kuffar is preaching to Egyptians that they are tribalistic Arabs while all totally logical arguments are deemed "afrocentric". Sorry we're not more "semetocentric"? The closer relations Egypt has with MUSLIM Arab countries the better, but [b]it is to be acknowledged and emphasized that we are simply not Arabs nor do we share your tribalistic wealth-idolizing culture. Egyptians are very good Muslims and Christians.
As a final note, it is said that the Dajjal will come to power thanks to the actions of some foolish arab bedouin.
Constitution Of The Arab Republic of Egypt PART ONE THE STATE Article 1 The Arab Republic of Egypt is a democratic, socialist State based on the alliance of the working forces of the people. The Egyptian people are part of the Arab Nation and work for the realisation of its comprehensive unity. Article 2 Islam is the religion of the state and Arabic its official language
[QUOTE] Originally posted by ausar: "Again I ask you what gives you the authority to question who exactly the Egyptians are."
"Constitution Of The Arab Republic of Egypt PART ONE THE STATE Article 1 The Arab Republic of Egypt is a democratic, socialist State based on the alliance of the working forces of the people. The Egyptian people are part of the Arab Nation and work for the realisation of its comprehensive unity. Article 2 Islam is the religion of the state and Arabic its official language"
kaddafi Read it and weep
[QUOTE]Originally posted by El Kadafi: Egyptians are Arab?
posted
On every level Egyptians are saying the are Arabs. If you look beyond the constitution and ask average Mohammed on the street he will say we are Arabs. Egyptians react with passion to Arabic issues and suffering all the time. they relates strongly to Arabic historic figures and shares so many ties with other arabs. How can anyone simply dismiss that. If the consitution and the egyptian people are saying Egyptians are arabs who is kadafi or auser to state other wise.
but hay what does The egyptian consitution or the egyptian people know about egyptian idnetity!!
Please give me a break what more definitive clue do you need. If it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it is a duck.
for the zillion time, no one denies the Pharoic influnece, and egyptians will point to you proudly that they are descendant from the Pheroas but they will also say they are ARABS
quote:Originally posted by Undead: Those last points are valid, but are far from definitive. When Egypt was with Rome, and called itself part of the Roman empire, it did not make the people Romans. The cases that you stated were drawn up during the Pan-Arabic movement, so there is a political ideology that motivated the "Arab" titles and association, one that has since been all but extinguished. Quite a few people want their indigenous identity back, and if you look at many of the new exhibits and government buildings you can see more and more Pharaonic influence creeping in over the Arabic or "Islamic" (term used loosely) that was standard. Good points anyway, on both sides of the arguement.
quote:Originally posted by El Kadafi: I am Upper Egyptian (Aswan), I don't need anyone to tell me anything. So what are you arguing for? You didn't reply to my statement that switching to an ancient Egyptian language would alienate us, and that we are definitely not anywhere near the level of civilization countries such as China or Japan are (both of which do not share a common language with other countries).
[This message has been edited by El Kadafi (edited 04 May 2004).]
EL KADAFI! WHO ARE YOU???? YOU ARE UPPER EGYPTIAN FROM ASWAN??? ALIKE AUSSAR???? AND HALF-TURK???? WHERE ARE YOU FROM AT ALL???
wow, this whole thread freaked me out... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- i thought i was reading a schizophrenic breakdown....
Sorry to interupt your thread, let me read it again now that i realize you are two seperate people.
(the above from the weblink posted)
This bit made me wet myself!!!!!!!! I was thinking exactly the same thing!!!!!!!!
[This message has been edited by Nefertiti (edited 13 May 2004).]
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posted
DubaiDoctor I just told you that there was a political agenda behind the constitution. One of an ideology that wished to spread the Arab identity and suppress individual nationality. That is what Socialism on any grand scale always does, and historically it has always been eventually rejected which is what you have going on here. Russia and China attempted the same thing. Now you have all the ex-soviet states scraping for their indigenous culture back. Just because they were once "Russians" by the book does not mean that they were in actuality. A group of law makers can write whatever lies they want in the constitution, you should look at the old South African one, or the original United States constitution. Also I disagree with you that the average Egyptian will say he is an Arab, because the average Egyptian will say he is an Egyptian. I have never heard an Egyptian proclaim himself an Arab when in Arabic speaking company. Caring about the Iraqi and Palestinian doesn't make one an Arab either... You can even travel around Corniche, Mohandeseen, Zamalek, Agouza and here Egyptians saying negative things about "Arabs." From the context of what one would hear it is clear they are speaking of Gulf Arabs, not themselves, and not the Iraqis, Palestinians, Libyans, Syrians, etc. When they say Arab they mean Arab. You are choosing text from 50 years ago to try and describe the contemporary sentiment. The region has changed since then. The old ideology of Pan-Arabism is nearly extinct in Egypt, just as Soviet Russia is. Now they call themselves Egyptians, and the Arabs are their "cousins." Clearly no one is going to change anyones mind here. You are going to keep saying "for the zillionth time bla bla bla" and the Egyptians that are responding are going to keep saying "we are Egyptians not Arabs." So I will sign off on this one.
quote:Originally posted by DubaiDoctor: On every level Egyptians are saying the are Arabs. If you look beyond the constitution and ask average Mohammed on the street he will say we are Arabs. Egyptians react with passion to Arabic issues and suffering all the time. they relates strongly to Arabic historic figures and shares so many ties with other arabs. How can anyone simply dismiss that. If the consitution and the egyptian people are saying Egyptians are arabs who is kadafi or auser to state other wise.
but hay what does The egyptian consitution or the egyptian people know about egyptian idnetity!!
Please give me a break what more definitive clue do you need. If it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it is a duck.
for the zillion time, no one denies the Pharoic influnece, and egyptians will point to you proudly that they are descendant from the Pheroas but they will also say they are ARABS
posted
"Sadot,the Fellahin still live in parts of Middle Egypt and Saeed[Southern Egypt] Most are not Nubians,but I agree with you that Nubians and Sa3eadi are pratically the same people. I am from that stock you describe Sadot. The people who drove the Sa3eadi and Fellahin off their land was Arabs and Christains."
You mentioned that you came from the stock of those who pushed the black Egyptians southward.
Are you of Turkish, Greek, Syrian, Arab, or a mix...descent? '' Sopdet responds: No,I said I was of Fellaheen stock from Upper Egypt. Black Egyptians still live in many places from Middle to Upper Egypt and I am of this stock. Nobody pushed black Egyptians southward. Upper Egypt means southern Egypt!"
However, if you see what current anthropologists are saying, it is, that Africa's population comes in great diversity. Some are light, some dark complexioned, some have straight or wavy hair, others kinky hair.
In the Nile Valley you can see the full range, if you travel southward from Egypt to Sudan, where in the Shilluk, Dinka, and Nuer, you'd find the very blackest Africans. Many, though display high bridged noses, and some, wavy hair. In Ethiopia, the population gets lighter complexioned, and many look very much like the average Middle Egyptian. In Egypt too, the people range from light complexioned up north to very dark around Aswan, where the population gradually shifts to Nubian.
Sincerely, Frank J. Yurco University of Chicago
-- Frank Joseph Yurco fjyurco@midway.uchicago.edu
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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However, if you see what current anthropologists are saying, it is, that Africa's population comes in great diversity. Some are light, some dark complexioned, some have straight or wavy hair, others kinky hair.
In the Nile Valley you can see the full range, if you travel southward from Egypt to Sudan, where in the Shilluk, Dinka, and Nuer, you'd find the very blackest Africans. Many, though display high bridged noses, and some, wavy hair. In Ethiopia, the population gets lighter complexioned, and many look very much like the average Middle Egyptian. In Egypt too, the people range from light complexioned up north to very dark around Aswan, where the population gradually shifts to Nubian.
Sincerely, Frank J. Yurco University of Chicago
-- Frank Joseph Yurco fjyurco@midway.uchicago.edu
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
However, if you see what current anthropologists are saying, it is, that Africa's population comes in great diversity. Some are light, some dark complexioned, some have straight or wavy hair, others kinky hair.
In the Nile Valley you can see the full range, if you travel southward from Egypt to Sudan, where in the Shilluk, Dinka, and Nuer, you'd find the very blackest Africans. Many, though display high bridged noses, and some, wavy hair. In Ethiopia, the population gets lighter complexioned, and many look very much like the average Middle Egyptian. In Egypt too, the people range from light complexioned up north to very dark around Aswan, where the population gradually shifts to Nubian.
Sincerely, Frank J. Yurco University of Chicago
-- Frank Joseph Yurco fjyurco@midway.uchicago.edu
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I would say negative things about Arabs too, but I am still an Arab. You choose to ignore the fact that Egyptian speak Arabic, the fact that they relate strongly to Arabic figures, Arabic history, very passionate about Arabic pain and problems every where. Above all egyptians will clearly state that they are Arabs. Egyptian faught the 1948 war aginst Israel prior to this Pan-Arab garbage every body is talking about and prior to Nasser when Egypt was a kingdom. At that time it was a palastinian issue with no occupied egyptian land. Armys from 4-5 different Arabic countries (one of them was egypt and there was a big number of Egyptian civilian volunteers) entered the war to help the Palastinians. Now you might want to choose to ignore these facts, and follow what ever you want to believe but that won't change the situation on the ground.
If Egyptians do say bad things about people from the Gulf that does not mean Egyptians are non Arabs. You can't be taken seriously when you site such claims as evidence that egyptians are non arabs. You can't be taken seriously when you down play and trivialize the constitution as a document that clearly articulate the Arabic nature of the country to support what ever wishful thinking you have. Why should I take your words or assertions as a gospel? Auser Asked me what gives me the Authority to say that Egyptian are arabs I answered "the egyptian constitution" and I point that question to you and Auser. What gives you or auser the authority to say that egyptians are non Arabs. You better give me a good answer or take a clue from Auser whom so far did NOT post an answer to my message. believe me any remotly resonable person with a hint of fairness will take the costitution any time. You better have strong evidence to support your view or It would take away alot from your credibility if you trivilize the egyptian consitution. You say that there was an Agenda when they wrote the consitiution, let me ask you; why should I believe that as a gospel? Where is your proof? Where did you get that knoweldge from? Why should I take that as a fact? Just becouse the constitution does not support your view about egyptian people you want to ignore it. This is not up to you my dear friend. you have to live by what is written in that document espicialy when most egyptian agree with it. Your attitude that the constitution does not know the egyptian identity is beyond rediculous. May be Egyptians ought to consult you when they ammend the constitution to make sure that you needs and desires are fulfilled. Come on give me a break
I agree that Pan Arabis is extenict But I fail to see how could you jump into conclusion that egyptians are non Arabs just because Pan-Arabism in no longer a vaild idea. The egyptian people where Arabs prior to Nasser and they will remain Arabs for long time to come. I personally never believed in Pan-Arabism seriously but I always have been an Arab. I really doubt that any one of the respondant "Auser or Kadafi" are egyptians and even if they were most egyptian culture, customs, langauge, constitution, laws, Names, issues, struggles, are Arabic. egypt and egyptian people were and always will be the leaders among Arabs.
the text from the constitution is dated 1981 when it was amended not 50 years ago as you claim. Beside even if it was 50 years ago and was not changed it is as good as new.
Answer thess questions if egypt and egyptians are non Arabs: why did Egypt went to war (both Army and civilian volunteer) with other Arabic countries in 1948 with israel prior to Nasser's pan Arabism when no egyptian land was occupied ?. And why do Egyptians still react to events in Arabic countries?
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quote:Originally posted by Undead: DubaiDoctor I just told you that there was a political agenda behind the constitution. One of an ideology that wished to spread the Arab identity and suppress individual nationality. That is what Socialism on any grand scale always does, and historically it has always been eventually rejected which is what you have going on here. Russia and China attempted the same thing. Now you have all the ex-soviet states scraping for their indigenous culture back. Just because they were once "Russians" by the book does not mean that they were in actuality. A group of law makers can write whatever lies they want in the constitution, you should look at the old South African one, or the original United States constitution. Also I disagree with you that the average Egyptian will say he is an Arab, because the average Egyptian will say he is an Egyptian. I have never heard an Egyptian proclaim himself an Arab when in Arabic speaking company. Caring about the Iraqi and Palestinian doesn't make one an Arab either... You can even travel around Corniche, Mohandeseen, Zamalek, Agouza and here Egyptians saying negative things about "Arabs." From the context of what one would hear it is clear they are speaking of Gulf Arabs, not themselves, and not the Iraqis, Palestinians, Libyans, Syrians, etc. When they say Arab they mean Arab. You are choosing text from 50 years ago to try and describe the contemporary sentiment. The region has changed since then. The old ideology of Pan-Arabism is nearly extinct in Egypt, just as Soviet Russia is. Now they call themselves Egyptians, and the Arabs are their "cousins." Clearly no one is going to change anyones mind here. You are going to keep saying "for the zillionth time bla bla bla" and the Egyptians that are responding are going to keep saying "we are Egyptians not Arabs." So I will sign off on this one.
[This message has been edited by DubaiDoctor (edited 13 May 2004).]
[This message has been edited by DubaiDoctor (edited 13 May 2004).]
quote:Originally posted by DubaiDoctor: I would say negative things about Arabs too, but I am still an Arab. You choose to ignore the fact that Egyptian speak Arabic,
So what, many Africans speak French, does that make them into European Frenchman?
quote:Originally posted by DubaiDoctor: the fact that they relate strongly to Arabic figures
MUSLIM figures, who happened to be "Arab"
quote:Originally posted by DubaiDoctor: Arabic history, very passionate about Arabic pain and problems every where.
We are very passionate about Muslim pain and problems everywhere. The funny thing is Egypt gave blood for you Arabs but your tribalistic nature won't allow you to help other kinds of Muslims. You all just sat on your rich asses while your brothers and sisters in Lebanon and Palestine were raped into sorrow.
Amazing how Arabs get angry when Egyptians say they're not Arab, and yet when Egyptians go to Arab countries they do not get treated as Arabs.
To Ayazid:
I am half-Turkic half-Saeedi Egyptian from Aswan. You are talking to a descendent of the great Osmanli Yenicheri. Or as you would say in english, the infamous Ottoman Janissary Corps.
posted
Most of the laws in Egypt are based off Sharia and European models. Even the Parilment is based off European customs and laws. Prior to 1954 most Egyptians would have never dared called themselves Arabs. To most Egyptians the Arabs in this period were the bedouin tribes that lived in various fringes of the Nile Valley. The only people advocating Pan-Arabism during these times were a few non-Egyptian residents from Libya,Syria,and Lebanese people.
During the various colonial occupation Egyptians reffered to themselves as balady which is an Arabic word meaning countryside while in Egypt it mean as a manner of differing a person from the Turks,British,French,and other various alien races. Most Egyptians during this time were simple peasents that clearly had no say into affairs. Why would use this period to dictate the idenity of modern Egyptians? You do realize that most modern Egyptians desend from Fallahin from various places in Upper,Middle,and Lower Egypt?
Why must my Egyptianess be in question because I simply disagree with you. Since when did this discussion get personal? I would like to keep a personal distance between me and you if that is most possible. Arab idenity is alien to Egyptians and always will be reguardless.
Most likley Egyptians joined with Nasser for union to reconstruct itself after bitter colonialization. The idenity of Egypt was totally polarized,so really ''balay'' Egyptians had really no choice to what politics lead them to. By the way,do you ever wonder why nations like Mauritania,Somalia or even Sudan are in the Arab league?
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I don't know why you think that pan-arabism is a pre-requesit to become an Arab. You can be an Arab without believeing in that Idiology. Actually I think that most Arabs don't buy into Pan-Arabism. You are using this Pan-Arabism argument to confuse the issue since you don't have much grounds to support your idea that Modern Egyptians are non Arabs so you use a convulated logic to reach a conclusion that egyptians are non Arabs just because they no longer believe in Pan-Arabism.
Look I don't know if you were an egyptian or not, I just simply don't. I don't recall that you have ever asserted it and if you did I probably missed it. I will take your word for it but For the purpose of this discussin it does not matter much where you come from.
I could not help but notice that you are still ignoring the egyptian constitution which clearly says that Egypt and Egyptians are Arabs. You can ignore it or trivilize it but that will be understandable after all it fly against your opinion and destroy it completley. The Egyptian constitution will remain the proof that Egyptians are Arabs and will leave no doubts for people who frequent this board that indeed there is little doubt in Identity of Modern Egyptian. Egyptians are Arabs according to the constitution and it stands in shining contrast to your earlier statement that "there is nothing common between Egyptians and arabs". I never heard you retract that statemnt or at leasat acknowledge that there is plenty of substance to my assersion that egyptians are Arabs beased on the mounting evidence from both the constitution and daily acitvity of average egyptians.
How can you keep repeating that Arabian identity is align to the Egyptian after quoting your constitution. Look we can argue how average egyptians think, interpert, analyse things but the written word should leave no room for doubts
"To most Egyptians the Arabs in this period were the bedouin tribes that lived in various fringes of the Nile Valley."
In the Arabic langauge, the word arab most of the time mean the Arabic people and can also used to mean Bedouin when it is used in a proper context and I think you are missing this point.
So people in the city can refer to tribes men as Arab meaning bedouin and Actually this is used in the Quran few times in that context.
So what you said is perfectly correct from linguistic point and it does not support your assertion that in Egypt only bedouian people are ARABS, becasue again in the Arabic langauge you can refer to beduian as Arabs
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Most of the laws in Egypt are based off Sharia and European models. Even the Parilment is based off European customs and laws. Prior to 1954 most Egyptians would have never dared called themselves Arabs. To most Egyptians the Arabs in this period were the bedouin tribes that lived in various fringes of the Nile Valley. The only people advocating Pan-Arabism during these times were a few non-Egyptian residents from Libya,Syria,and Lebanese people.
During the various colonial occupation Egyptians reffered to themselves as balady which is an Arabic word meaning countryside while in Egypt it mean as a manner of differing a person from the Turks,British,French,and other various alien races. Most Egyptians during this time were simple peasents that clearly had no say into affairs. Why would use this period to dictate the idenity of modern Egyptians? You do realize that most modern Egyptians desend from Fallahin from various places in Upper,Middle,and Lower Egypt?
Why must my Egyptianess be in question because I simply disagree with you. Since when did this discussion get personal? I would like to keep a personal distance between me and you if that is most possible. Arab idenity is alien to Egyptians and always will be reguardless.
Most likley Egyptians joined with Nasser for union to reconstruct itself after bitter colonialization. The idenity of Egypt was totally polarized,so really ''balay'' Egyptians had really no choice to what politics lead them to. By the way,do you ever wonder why nations like Mauritania,Somalia or even Sudan are in the Arab league?
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Read this Ayazid:
However, if you see what current anthropologists are saying, it is, that Africa's population comes in great diversity. Some are light, some dark complexioned, some have straight or wavy hair, others kinky hair.
In the Nile Valley you can see the full range, if you travel southward from Egypt to Sudan, where in the Shilluk, Dinka, and Nuer, you'd find the very blackest Africans. Many, though display high bridged noses, and some, wavy hair. In Ethiopia, the population gets lighter complexioned, and many look very much like the average Middle Egyptian. In Egypt too, the people range from light complexioned up north to very dark around Aswan, where the population gradually shifts to Nubian.
Sincerely, Frank J. Yurco University of Chicago
-- Frank Joseph Yurco fjyurco@midway.uchicago.edu
AUSAAAAAAAAAAAAR, I didnīt say that itīs not true, but that I think you are SAME person like Sopdet, because your and his argumentation, way of thinking, vocabulary and personal informations (proud Sa3eadi - sic - Egyptian). Sorry Ausar, but itīs VERY implausible.
quote:Originally posted by ausar: Read this Ayazid:
However, if you see what current anthropologists are saying, it is, that Africa's population comes in great diversity. Some are light, some dark complexioned, some have straight or wavy hair, others kinky hair.
In the Nile Valley you can see the full range, if you travel southward from Egypt to Sudan, where in the Shilluk, Dinka, and Nuer, you'd find the very blackest Africans. Many, though display high bridged noses, and some, wavy hair. In Ethiopia, the population gets lighter complexioned, and many look very much like the average Middle Egyptian. In Egypt too, the people range from light complexioned up north to very dark around Aswan, where the population gradually shifts to Nubian.
Sincerely, Frank J. Yurco University of Chicago
-- Frank Joseph Yurco fjyurco@midway.uchicago.edu
AUSAAAAAAAAAAAAR, I didnīt say that itīs not true, but that I think you are SAME person like Sopdet, because your and his argumentation, way of thinking, vocabulary and personal informations (proud Sa3eadi - sic - Egyptian). Sorry Ausar, but itīs VERY implausible.
posted
No,I am not the same person as Sopdet. Sorry,I only use two name when posting on message board and that is proud Sa3eadi Egypt at the St. mary Church Coptic forum and Ausar over on this forum .
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Dubai boy u are not egyptian so stop saying what egyptian are arabs, u are from dubai, so u are arab u have no business in labling us to what we are. You probebly know egpytians u say, but most that u know are probebly from cities like ciaro and Alex these cities are arab cities u could say they are very diverse. But trust me if u were to go to the smaller cities and villiges in both upper and lower egypt u will find out that the people in these cities are totally different from the two big cities. First of all i dont give a damn about that bull sh iii t consititution, i consider by my self first as a muslim then egyptian, but not as an arab, sorry foo and nothing u say has any word here in this forum firstly because u an arab boy and second u aint egyptian.
Posts: 671 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by multisphinx: Dubai boy u are not egyptian so stop saying what egyptian are arabs, u are from dubai, so u are arab u have no business in labling us to what we are. You probebly know egpytians u say, but most that u know are probebly from cities like ciaro and Alex these cities are arab cities u could say they are very diverse. But trust me if u were to go to the smaller cities and villiges in both upper and lower egypt u will find out that the people in these cities are totally different from the two big cities. First of all i dont give a damn about that bull sh iii t consititution, i consider by my self first as a muslim then egyptian, but not as an arab, sorry foo and nothing u say has any word here in this forum firstly because u an arab boy and second u aint egyptian.
posted
In reguards to religion and Arabism I will quote the motto from Saad Zughlul's Wafd party : "Religion belongs to God, but the fatherland is for all''
Posts: 8675 | From: Tukuler al~Takruri as Ardo since OCT2014 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
After reading this topic I was quite bewildered as to why some people were even trying to label egyptians as Arabs. Who cares what they are as long as they are not a part of us?!?! They call us lazy bedous on our asses tell me what has egypt done for the jihadis or palestine for that matter? And in Chechnya a lot of the fighters are Saudi's and not egyptians. Egyptians are renowned for being skilled at theft, deception and other immoral acts. Your country symbolises hell on earth. High rates of rape, murder, theft, corruption etc, and you have the audacity to disrespect the Gulf arabs? When the the gulf arab countries were extremely poor and suffering from mass starvation before the finding of oil, no arab country was there to assist it even though they were better off than us. So as far as I am concerend they can all die for all I care, and should be glad we give them mass donations. And Egypt is also a slave to America and Israel so who ever made that statement about us bending over to the US can take his fist and shove it up his hypocritical ass.
Posts: 46 | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Originally posted by dajjal: After reading this topic I was quite bewildered as to why some people were even trying to label egyptians as Arabs. Who cares what they are as long as they are not a part of us?!?! They call us lazy bedous on our asses tell me what has egypt done for the jihadis or palestine for that matter? And in Chechnya a lot of the fighters are Saudi's and not egyptians. Egyptians are renowned for being skilled at theft, deception and other immoral acts. Your country symbolises hell on earth. High rates of rape, murder, theft, corruption etc, and you have the audacity to disrespect the Gulf arabs? When the the gulf arab countries were extremely poor and suffering from mass starvation before the finding of oil, no arab country was there to assist it even though they were better off than us. So as far as I am concerend they can all die for all I care, and should be glad we give them mass donations. And Egypt is also a slave to America and Israel so who ever made that statement about us bending over to the US can take his fist and shove it up his hypocritical ass.
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