Would women .. all women travelling to tourist resorts please stop handing over money to the local men to buy property, land or whatever. If you want to invest then by all means go ahead .. do it in your own name and get a good lawyer to advise you.... take the same care as if you were buying property in your own country. Then we could put a stop to the scams .. maybe not 100% but a large majority. No scams = no stupid relationships... broken hearts, broken bank accounts etc etc . All this is just not necessary... use your heads ....use your intelligence.... make use of professional advice.
Then further when you have all your legal papers of title to your investments properly registered by a good lawyer ... keep them in a safe place. Mine are in England! That is what you would do in your own country so do in Egypt as you would at home.
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 16 June 2004).]
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Sure, I will check the other forum, Kat has just told me about it.
See you,
You know I was in Cairo couple of week ago, it was a last minute decision, it was very nice. I might go back in October again for a meeting, so may be we can catch each other after all.
Cheers
[This message has been edited by Mooly El Din (edited 16 June 2004).]
[This message has been edited by Mooly El Din (edited 16 June 2004).]
posted
I agree and suport this topic 100 percent but why are these woman doing this? "Love" ladies one man and woman for everyone. You have to find the right one I know this but shop more carefull. When he says he loves you ok but then he asks for twenty five thousand dollars then a bell should go off.He maybe doesnt love you all that much you must then move on.
Posts: 5 | From: USA | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
The problem is that many women do not see these kind of forums until to late. They just go on holiday and then they met someone. Then they get involved and sometime down the line they start researching.
Perphaps we ought to get Thomsons and Libra to hand out warnings like they do about the water
Also something that really annoys me and I emailed the British Embassy about is there is nothing on that site about Orfi. When I complained I was told that you can contact a lawyer.
quote:I attach our leaflet on Civil Marriages in Egypt. I also attach our list of English Speaking Lawyers who are best placed to advise you on Orfi marriages and legal rights of British women marrying Egyptian men.
I think they should have a brief description and explanation on the site. If you agree please email them info@britishembassy.org.eg maybe that might help.
------------------ Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
posted
Jane I really agree about the British Embassy, they are failing their citizens in their duty of care. I will contact them also if enough of us do it maybe something will change. I do think the Embassies should be giving much more warnings about what is going on.
Leaflets at the airports would really get to the heart of the problem. Think I will try writing to the major tour companies. It's worth a try. Got a feeling the Egyptian authorities might get a bit upset about this approach though.
Saw something on TV yesterday about ...it has now been proven that when somebody falls in love this activates one part of the brain but at the same time desinsitizes the rational thinking/decision making part of the brain. So looks like there is a scientific reason for these daft things going on.. Not sure what happened to me then???? Do I love him ..... don't I love him.... do I love him...don't I love him/// got to go and find some daisies. Ha ha !!
posted
I have written to the Foreign Office and the British Embassy about the need for an Advisory service for European citizens in Egypt (with no answer as yet). I am also writing to the Charities Commission to see if it is possible to register a charity for this service (based in Luxor) - if the charity is registered then it is possible to apply for funding. From this an internet site could be set up, and a full set of advisory leaflets prepared, covering all aspects of the perks, trials and tribulations of living in Egypt.
Advice of this kind is outside the remit of the Foreign Service - they can replace your passport and provide certain services (at high cost) but they cannot protect your bank account or your heart. They can recommend lawyers to recitfy any wrongs but they cannot guarantee their honesty.
Handing out leaflets is agood idea, but first the funds have to found to produce them. The British Government cannot do this - it would harm international realtionships which are not good between Islamic countries at the moment.
This is something that has become very important to me but I do not know if it can ever become a reality. I wish it could - to fund it myself I would first have to win the lottery - or get myself a rich Egyptian lover !!!!!!!!!!! Fie mish mish.
maybe we can work together Europeanwide. you know that there is a German forum http://www.egyptlive.org who is caring for these things also. There are also some members who will take part as a speaker in that TV-show I mentioned yesterday and two of them are authors of books about the same subject. I'll try to find out something. Maybe it will be easer and quicker when we find a way to work together.
quote:Originally posted by Penny: Saw something on TV yesterday about ...it has now been proven that when somebody falls in love this activates one part of the brain but at the same time desinsitizes the rational thinking/decision making part of the brain. So looks like there is a scientific reason for these daft things going on.
Yes I read that on the BBC news site. love supresses critical thought. Both maternal and romantic love (explains why mothers always say 'but he is a good boy') also rmantic love increases libido.
So your body is conspiring against you, not fair!!!!
I glad to here you feel they are letting people down because I feel that too
When I got that reply from the embassy I sent back
quote:Thank you for the information that you so kindly sent but it doesn't actually answer the point I raised with you,. By having nothing on your web site that even mentions Orfi marriages you are failing to protect British Citizens. Unless you know such a thing exists and what it means you are not going to make enquiries about it. I looked up your site when I was trying to find information and there is nothing there about ORFI. As you haven't got a search engine on the site I didn't know if it was hidden away somewhere which is why I wrote to you.
These marriages are conducted by perfectably respectable lawyers so why should anyone query then. Why should anyone from the UK even presume that there were different categories of marriage. If a women looks up your web site and sees the description of marriage there she could well believe that the site was out of date, only refered to Cairo or some other excuse. You ought to mention these marriages and that they are not accepted by the UK authorities. You also ought to have a hand out that expalined exactly what the rights were and were not especially compared to a marriage conducted as described.
The list of lawyers you gave me was not much help not one of them was in the UK
I didn't get any reply what so ever, I sent that over a year ago as well.
------------------ Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
posted
There was also a Danish interest in the subject too. What is needed is a concerted effort to pool information and then relay it in the various languages.
Posts: 2235 | From: Jail | Registered: Jun 2004
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I read something about the business with orfi and gigolos of Luxor in the french newspaper " Libération " this week and they said that there was about 400 european women concerned.
quote:Originally posted by Jutta3: Hi girls,
maybe we can work together Europeanwide. you know that there is a German forum http://www.egyptlive.org who is caring for these things also. There are also some members who will take part as a speaker in that TV-show I mentioned yesterday and two of them are authors of books about the same subject. I'll try to find out something. Maybe it will be easer and quicker when we find a way to work together.
posted
It is now an international problem with the British making up the largest group in Luxor and the Russians in Hurghada.
Posts: 2235 | From: Jail | Registered: Jun 2004
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I will start a new website, just to sum up information in various languages, like newspaper articles, book lists, lists of people who can help, lists of addresse from Embassies etc.
But I will need a lot of your help. Please send to me any relating infos to the subject, no matter in which language. If you find someone who can translate it for you in English: great!
What we will also need is a free possibility of advertising in various net-sites to make it more and more possible. So please ladies: start to work. I hope I will come up with the fist rough page on the weekend.
Regarding opening a fund, I will try to get some information about how this can be done (regarding law etc.)
What you girls in Egypt can do is, to get information about if it is allowed to spread papers like this to people in the resort regions. Maybe we could get in trouble with the tourist police if we do this.
For all of you who want to come up to me with information: fisch3468@freenet.de
posted
Let's not forget a very essential issue: MANY women find a comfort zone when abused and taken for a ride and go into these scams willingly...as long as...the men are nice to them...when the relationship turns sour, the women turn against the men.
If that was NOT true we would not have this conversation today!
The aim of warning all women not to give their money blindly, is great...and I support it, if that would help some.. but reality sinks in here, and the question is: what is the pecentage of women that are REALLY fooled????
I have some difficulty believing that traveling/business/educated/women are not intelligent enough to sense a scam, or to see the signs, or to hear the warning bells..can't understand it..Some are maybe naive and inexperienced, but to be fooled to that extend means to me, that they would be fooled that way in every business transaction then..
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 17 June 2004).]
There is no way that you could give out a blacklist of offenders or anything like that because the libel laws in Egypt are strong but you could give out a leaflet telling people where they can go for free advice and where they could get a series of leaflets on the legal aspects (and pitfalls) of marriages, property deals, transferring money, getting translations, lawyers, etc. Penny had some ideas on the properrty side.
Can we get together on this and put it on a formal setting?
I have thought of a name for the charity I want to start. I thought something like WISE - Women's Information Service for Egypt.
There is no way that you could give out a blacklist of offenders or anything like that because the libel laws in Egypt are strong but you could give out a leaflet telling people where they can go for free advice and where they could get a series of leaflets on the legal aspects (and pitfalls) of marriages, property deals, transferring money, getting translations, lawyers, etc. Penny had some ideas on the properrty side.
Can we get together on this and put it on a formal setting?
I have thought of a name for the charity I want to start. I thought something like WISE - Women's Information Service for Egypt.
I think the site should be principly one of information, education and case histories (good and bad). With loads of links to official sites like embassies and government departments.
I totally do not agree with a name and shame apart from libel laws how do you know the girl is telling the truth.
------------------ Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
quote:Originally posted by Monica: Let's not forget a very essential issue: MANY women find a comfort zone when abused and taken for a ride and go into these scams willingly...as long as...the men are nice to them...when the relationship turns sour, the women turn against the men.
If that was NOT true we would not have this conversation today!
The aim of warning all women not to give their money blindly, is great...and I support it, if that would help some.. but reality sinks in here, and the question is: what is the pecentage of women that are REALLY fooled????
I have some difficulty believing that traveling/business/educated/women are not intelligent enough to sense a scam, or to see the signs, or to hear the warning bells..can't understand it..Some are maybe naive and inexperienced, but to be fooled to that extend means to me, that they would be fooled that way in every business transaction then..
[This message has been edited by Monica (edited 17 June 2004).]
What you say is absolutely true but because someone doesn't want to take the medicine doesn't mean you should make it. People need to have the option, informed choice is the key.
I was previously involved in a cult and after we left my late hhusband used to help people who were still members. He never ever asked someone to leave. He merely presented them with all the facts and left them to make their own minds up. Actually everyone he meet with did leave the cult because once they knew what was what they literally saw the light. We always felt if by publicising our story it helped one person leave or one person not join then we had doen a good thing.
I think this idea is similar provide information so people can make up their own minds. In fact you might want to look at the anti cult site for ideas www.tolc.org
------------------ Jane Akshar UK Co-owner of www.flatsinluxor.co.uk Appartments and Tours in Luxor
posted
Girls I totally agree with you. It was not my intention to open another "bad stories"-site. And of course not another blacklist. I think it's a good idea to have it. But they are already existing and I think to make it it both on the same site is kind of contradictive. Information is what is needed most, but also a way to make this information public.
Posts: 306 | From: Frankfurt, Germany | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I want to start a face to face service in Luxor not just an internet site. The site would back up the service. Many of the women I meet who are in trouble are not computer literate. When a woman is in trouble she often needs someone to talk to other than her friends and an independent source of advice.
I had thought about using part of my busines premises for this or a room in my flat (which is big enough to house a football team) but I would rather in was somewhere dedicated to the purpose.
Do any of you Egypt experts know if I would need a licnse for this? Would I still need one even though it would be a service rather than a business?
Jane: can you give me some idea - privately - of how much it cost to set up your site and how you registered your domain name?
Jutta: WE can share information and get things translated.
Anyone else who can help: I can be reached on Lizasutton@hotmail.com
posted
PS: Yes I would keep a blacklist of those that are known to have caused problems but it would be for consultation not publication.
Posts: 2235 | From: Jail | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
It was great to read all the ideas here today having been out of action for a few days sick. I do so agree that what we should be aimimg for is an information service. People can then make their own choices once they have access to information. as Luxor Luvor said I am hoping to start putting information together on property purchase in Egypt for foriegners. It varies from region to region so any personal experience would be much appreciated.
Posts: 3809 | From: Paradise | Registered: Mar 2003
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