i am very confused.....

why can't we be torleant of each other.....

and i leave you with the words of Imam Malik (may Allah be well pleased with him):
man tassawaffa wa lam yatafaqah faqad tazandaqa wa man tafaqaha wa lam yatsawwaf faqad fasadat, wa man tafaqaha wa tassawafa faqad tahaqqaq." - "whoever studied tasawwuf without fiqh is a heretic and whoever studied fiqh without tasawwuf is corrupted; and whoever studied tasawwuf and fiqh will find the Truth and Reality of Islam."

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Originally posted by brian04:
Hi everybody,
Recently on ES i have noticed there is alot of hatred of arabs hating other arabs and other muslims hating other muslims.... i am going to convert to islam.... but isn't islam all about being tolerant of other peoples even other muslims even thought they may interrupt islam another way....

i am very confused.....

why can't we be torleant of each other.....

hoping for some views,
brian

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Originally posted by brian04:
Hi everybody,
Recently on ES i have noticed there is alot of hatred of arabs hating other arabs and other muslims hating other muslims.... i am going to convert to islam.... but isn't islam all about being tolerant of other peoples even other muslims even thought they may interrupt islam another way....

i am very confused.....

why can't we be torleant of each other.....

hoping for some views,
brian

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hi please forgive my english i m french educated. well about ur asking
i think that true to the first arab socity constitution ther always be problems betwin tribes and every tribe wanted to be the best in time of the prophet mohamed it got good and calm but after litlle by litlle it become like before
more in general contrary to what it seems arab accept other people more than other arab so if u really want to convert and u r convinced just don t hesitate ok good luck

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i think that true to the first arab socity constitution ther always be problems betwin tribes and every tribe wanted to be the best in time of the prophet mohamed it got good and calm but after litlle by litlle it become like before
more in general contrary to what it seems arab accept other people more than other arab so if u really want to convert and u r convinced just don t hesitate ok good luck

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Oh really....then what of the concept of Mawali. During the middle ages Arabs had a concept of Mawali where only the purest Arabs could enjoy the full benefits of soceity. Non-Arabs including Egyptians,Perisans,and Berbers[Amazigh] were constanly looked down upon and forced to become the client of the Arab tribe. Mawali previously occupied a slave caste in pre-Islamic Arabia. Arabs are only accepting of Arab ways,but when it comes to other people's ways then they destoy them replacing them with pusedo-Arabization and Arabic language. Consider their own history before such a comment. No disrepect intended.

1) Islam was the first to end slavery and gave equals rights for the black people to others and that why Islam why faced with a lots of trouble at the begging because the non believers didn’t like the idea of black ppl be treated like normal human plus many of the prophet `s (P.B.U.H.) companion were black and the honor of saying the first a`zan (calling for prayer) was given to belal who was black. So Islam gave the blacks theirs rights without fighting for them opposite to what had happened in North America and explain for you a reason why lots of blacks here in North America give respect to our religion and convert.

2) The prophet (P.B.U.H.) said “There is no difference between an Arab and non Arab only by following Allah teachings”. So the Islam was based upon giving equal rights for every kind of race.

3) Islam gave equal rights to women long before the western civilizations. The only difference is that women had to fight for it in west but in Islam it was already there.

4) There is no difference between the rich and the poor in Islam. The prophet (P.B.U.H.) said “Everybody is the same in front of Allah like the teeth of the comb” and u can see this when everybody, rich or poor, Arab or non Arab, black or white, stand beside each other in the mosque to pray for one god.

N.B. My translation is not very accurate, ppl could comment on transluations.

If it was right that hate started between Muslims after the prophet (P.B.U.H.) died, we wouldn’t had one of the greatest civilization that was made after the prophet (P.B.U.H.) had died because how could u make an entire huge empire while we were not united. By the way, Muslims don’t hate each other because that is not simply Islam, I live in Canada and I seen Muslims from all over the world, paki, Indian, Arabs, Persian, Turks, Canadians and nobody hate the other and we all worship god in the same place using the same book.

The reason why Arabs hate each other now is that because they are not holding to their Islam anymore so when people(Arabs, Persian or Pakistanis, etc) go work in the gulf they discriminate them which of course create hate. A small example is that the locals in Kuwait or U.A.E. take 3 times what an Egyptian would take to do the same job.

Btw, if there are different groups in Islam all of them follow the same Quran and believe in one god and in his prophet (P.B.U.H.). The difference was mainly based up on things happened in the Islamic history which lead to different people understand the Quran differently which is not considered as a big deal when compared to Christianity where every group so different that the other.

One more thing, we Arabs didn’t have WW1 or WW2 which was based upon racist ideas which our Islam is totally against. As in Europe and North America, there are people who hate each other for some reason or the other there is also people in Arabia who hate each other for power or money, etc. we are all human and we can’t be perfect.

Arab bedouin tribes are still wrecking havoc in areas like Sudan and Chad. Most of the modern people who call themselves Arabs are the desendants of people that have been Arabized often by force or survial.

Even if Islam granted women equal rights Arabs use to drown female babies in sand because they never wanted them. ancient Egyptians well before Mohammed or Westerners valued women and in their soceity they were allowed to inherit porperty and divorce when needed. What little reform in the Arab world slipped out of the window when Mohammed died because Arabs forced new converts to Islam to become second class citizens. None of the following is comissioned by the Quran but the Arabs still did it.

Arabs also have been wrecking havoc in areas in Upper Egypt like Suhaj,Assuit,and Minya for eons. Ever since the Mamelukes unleashed them to this region.

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Originally posted by ausar:
Well, we are speaking of Arabs and not Muslims. What Islam did should be credited to what Arabs did. Truth is that Medevil Arabs were racist,forced their beliefs on others,sold people into slavery,and had the lowest reguard to anybody non-Arab. This included Egyptians and whoever else Arabs took over.

Arab bedouin tribes are still wrecking havoc in areas like Sudan and Chad. Most of the modern people who call themselves Arabs are the desendants of people that have been Arabized often by force or survial.

Even if Islam granted women equal rights Arabs use to drown female babies in sand because they never wanted them. ancient Egyptians well before Mohammed or Westerners valued women and in their soceity they were allowed to inherit porperty and divorce when needed. What little reform in the Arab world slipped out of the window when Mohammed died because Arabs forced new converts to Islam to become second class citizens. None of the following is comissioned by the Quran but the Arabs still did it.

Arabs also have been wrecking havoc in areas in Upper Egypt like Suhaj,Assuit,and Minya for eons. Ever since the Mamelukes unleashed them to this region.

[This message has been edited by ausar (edited 20 June 2004).]

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Originally posted by multisphinx:
and by the way, arab does not mean muslim, arab is just and group of people they can be christian cathlic what eva. Dont put a lable for arab as muslim, maybe that will clear up things for u a little bit.

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we all know arabs were racist big time before islam (it is taught in our schools) but if u also looked at the other races at the time, they were no different. Everybody was racist and in dark ages. Even the persians didnt allow women to worship their gods because they were considered as unclean dirty creature because of the period and thats why women were not allowed in.

That attack on arabs is not fair. They arent the worest and they arent the best.

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Originally posted by ausar:
Well, we are speaking of Arabs and not Muslims. What Islam did should be credited to what Arabs did. Truth is that Medevil Arabs were racist,forced their beliefs on others,sold people into slavery,and had the lowest reguard to anybody non-Arab. This included Egyptians and whoever else Arabs took over.

Arab bedouin tribes are still wrecking havoc in areas like Sudan and Chad. Most of the modern people who call themselves Arabs are the desendants of people that have been Arabized often by force or survial.

Even if Islam granted women equal rights Arabs use to drown female babies in sand because they never wanted them. ancient Egyptians well before Mohammed or Westerners valued women and in their soceity they were allowed to inherit porperty and divorce when needed. What little reform in the Arab world slipped out of the window when Mohammed died because Arabs forced new converts to Islam to become second class citizens. None of the following is comissioned by the Quran but the Arabs still did it.

Arabs also have been wrecking havoc in areas in Upper Egypt like Suhaj,Assuit,and Minya for eons. Ever since the Mamelukes unleashed them to this region.

[This message has been edited by ausar (edited 20 June 2004).]

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Islam gave equal rights to women long before the western civilizations
Islam is responsible for the destruction of Africa's "matriarchal" society. We're not talking about the "West" as both are responsible for the destruction of Africa!! Both forced their patriarchal societies on to the motherland, and women suffered as a result of this.

One more thing, we Arabs didn’t have WW1 or WW2
You must be completely out of your mind, or just plain ignorant!! Arabia was involved in both World Wars, I suggest you do some research before making false claims.

Originally posted by Multisphinx
First the hatred u see is not because of the religion
Tell that to the thousands of Sudanese Refugees affectionately termed "THE LOST BOYS OF SUDAN" who became orphans and lost their villages and family members because they would NOT forcefully convert to "Islam".

Originally posted by DubaiDoctor
We know now that you are a racist
thanks for clarifying that
We now know that you suffer from a keen sense of self-denial, as all Ausur posted was the truth! Arabs have done nothing but bring Sudan and Egypt from 2 of the most thriving ancient kingdoms in East Africa down to backward 3rd world Nations!! And I beg anyone to differ.

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Originally posted by homeylu:
Originally posted by BahyBasha
[b]Islam was the first to end slavery and gave equals rights for the black people
If it wasnt from Islam, the westerners would not have ever known about African slavery. Arabs were the first to trade black slaves to the Europeans.[/b]

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I have to disagree here. Slavery went on for centuries in Europe before they started enslaving blacks. They were going to enslave whoever regardless. Blacks just were better suited to work in the hot sun than all other groups that were enslaved. The word slave comes from the Latin word "Slav", used to describe slaves from Eastern Europe.

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Originally posted by homeylu:

[b]Islam gave equal rights to women long before the western civilizations
Islam is responsible for the destruction of Africa's "matriarchal" society. We're not talking about the "West" as both are responsible for the destruction of Africa!! Both forced their patriarchal societies on to the motherland, and women suffered as a result of this.[/b]

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What makes you think cultures were matriarchal across Africa? To me it always seemed to vary from place to place. The only place where Arabs were involved in the destruction of the matriarchal society was in Sudan. Nubian men left their land and property to their daughter's children and Arabs gained land and wealth in Sudan by marrying Nubian women.

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Originally posted by homeylu:

[b]One more thing, we Arabs didn’t have WW1 or WW2
You must be completely out of your mind, or just plain ignorant!! Arabia was involved in both World Wars, I suggest you do some research before making false claims.[/b]

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Many Arab countries got their independence from WWI and several Arab countries supported the Nazis in WWII.

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Originally posted by homeylu:

Originally posted by DubaiDoctor
[b]We know now that you are a racist
thanks for clarifying that
We now know that you suffer from a keen sense of self-denial, as all Ausur posted was the truth! Arabs have done nothing but bring Sudan and Egypt from 2 of the most thriving ancient kingdoms in East Africa down to backward 3rd world Nations!! And I beg anyone to differ.[/b]

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Egypt and Sudan are both part of the Arab world but I wouldn't blame Arabs for their decline. Both countries were declining long before Arabs began to rule. When it comes to colonization and exploitation of wealth, Arab and black African countries are in the same boat. In both worlds we see countries where people are powerless and whose destinies are almost pre-determined by the West.

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Originally posted by katrina:
Amun,

off topic clarification, the word "Slav" has the common etymology with "glory", "glorious", "glorify". The word "Slav" later lost its Slavic identity not origin due to conquests

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Never heard that before but I'll look it up. According to the dictionary, the Eglish word, "Slave" came from "Slav".

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Originally posted by Carleen:
More OT: That's a cool webpage you have, Amun. Are you from Maryland?

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Ausar, i guess u went out of the topic. Why r u talking about Medevil Arabs now? it is not our subject, what subject is why there are some hate between arabs now a days.

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The topic was originally about relationship between non-Arab Muslims and Arab Muslims. I just interjected the statements as it relates to relationship between the Arabian Caliphtes to the non-Arab Egyptian population. I feel much of the animoisty non-Arabs have about Arabs is due to the policy during the middle ages of Mawali which confined Muslim converts to simply become the client of Arab Muslims. Under this system non-Arab Muslims suffered unequality.

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we all know arabs were racist big time before islam (it is taught in our schools) but if u also looked at the other races at the time, they were no different.

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What you said is true except when Mohammed died Arabs reverted back to their slave trading ways. Once against how would you explain the pratice of Mawali?

Not pointing the fingers at any particular Arab group but the facts and the facts.

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That attack on arabs is not fair. They arent the worest and they arent the best.

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How did you take my statements as an attack on Arabs? I never indicted the whole Arab population nor told anything that cannot be validated through historical reserch. Try studying history sometime through multiple views.

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Originally posted by Amun:
Yes, Baltimore... Thanks, I forgot I had my BP profile on here...

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You're absolutely correct. Please forgive me for that last statement. I had no right to make a critical statement about all Arabs, since my own personal experience with them has been nothing but pleasant. I suppose it was just mis-directed anger over what has happened recently to the Lost Boys that caused this. As an American I also have the same anger towards how our government has exploited Iraqi citizens. When in all cases the leadership is to blame and not the people in general. Again I apologize.