quote:

---

Originally posted by moll:

YES I DID AND I AM NOT THEIR CONSCIENCE.

---

Thank you...fffffinaly.Why would you or I want to know or support in any way a known Murderer or a Rapist..the fact that he is not in jail does not change that he is a rapist.Bizo is worse than a Rapist or a Murderer.

quote:

---

Originally posted by moll:

NOW ONE QUESTION FOR YOU: WHY DO YOU CHASE ME ALL OVER THE INTERNET ACCUSING ME OF 'ROUTINELY ATTACKING MUSLIMS' WHEN YOU KNOW THAT IS COMPLETELY UNTRUE? THE WORDING OF YOUR POST ABOVE MAY NOT SAY THAT, BUT YOU'VE SAID IT ALL OVER THE INTERNET AND I'M SICK OF IT.

---

When Ayman attacked Slahudin you were an administrator and you deleted some posts/threads and locked others. Aiding and abetting is just as bad as committing the act itself. Calling Muslims fanatics,Fundementalists and Extremists is certainly not a compliment.

The problem here is that many ,if not all of you, do not consider that kind of attack (by Bizo) on Muslims to be a serious offence.To me it is unforgivable.

Just so I don't seem to be avoiding the answer:
Moll, You did not routinely attack Muslims

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
Okay juniour, post the quote where I say I disapprove of the photos (because I don't, I said I wouldn't take part in it, but it's harmless fun if others do it). Now I think you have a personal problem because you are stalking her. This thread for example, it was not started by her, it isn't addressed to you, and you still manage to be annoyed by it! You search through ET, ES, EM, YE for threads on Moll so that you can be annoyed by it. Why are you seeking to be annoyed by it. If it annoys you just bugger off and don't read it. A lot of people on this board annoy me and I simply ignore them, God knows ES has its share of drama kings/queens. For example I usualy ignore you, my mistake this time, go on, have fun, just don't think a lot of people are holding their breath waiting to see what you think of anything.

---

I had to reply to this again, as I skipped over a few remarks the first time.

Namely "stalking her?"

That would entail me hunting down all of her comments and responding only to those. And god knows there are several. I've contributed to threads where she is not even present, so I suppose I'm stalking everyone else too huh?

Next comment, "annoyed?"

If you would READ before you respond to a 'thread that was addressed to MOLL' NOT kimo-the-maniac (just using reverse psychology here) you will note that I was "annoyed" with Lukoshko's response to Brian. Is Lukoshko "stalking" Brian. I doubt it.

Next comment "Drama Queen, Drama King"

You're correct there are a lot of Drama Queens and KINGSon ES, some play both the role of male and female.

Last comment "hoding their breath"

Glad I gave you the opportunity to "exhale"

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
Okay Magnoon, now let's end this big drama of yours once and for all. How do you think Bizo and Dunes routinely attack Muslims? They are both Muslim! If they choose to attack a certain kind of Muslim that's their preroragative. After all OBL thinks he is a Muslim and I think he is an asshole and I am a Muslim too.

So if they banned an extremist spammer how does that make them grand criminals the way you are suggesting. Unless you mean ALL Muslims should be sacrosanct and should not be touched at all whatever they say. In that case you are nuts, because you know as much as I do that some Muslims have it coming.

Now I have been holding this back for a long time because it entails I accidentally defend Bizo, now I don't like him but I don't think he is vicious or anything like you seem to do.

So come on, explain why those spammers on ET deserved better? They came to a privately owned secular forum and started copy-paste'ing, so what should the admins have done? Come on Magnoon I am neutral on this, convince me.

---

I really should be going...it's midday here and I've got to get back to wrk.

It was very simple..a guy who was using the name Javaman...he was very knowledge Muslim and very interested in discussing Islam.
He coied and psted Dua' as it was Ramadan then....and this is what followed:

Bizo:

what is the your point javaman posting all that religious stuff...

we don't like it this way and no one is intersted in your religious crap so please please save us the hassle of fighting with you... you know nothing about how nasty we turn when fighting.

and this this:

Bizo:

Javazeft

do not start with me.
anyway, please er7am gehazi el tanasoly men el nafkh dah.

Enta yabni ghabi, they told you we are not fuckin intersted in your religious stuff.. are you mentally handicaped??
I bet you are a frustrated , ya3ni law bete3mal wa7ed kowayes makontesh waga3at rasna bel malal beta3ak dah.

roo7 yabni get laid walla edrablak 3ashara... Fokk nafsak ya3ni..
FRUSTRATION is no GOOD for you

then Dunes posted this:

My sentiments exactly bizo . Javashit fits the profile of a sexually frustrated Religious weirdo. Fundamentalist in beedon ala carte.

Take your Quran and your beloved bullshit out of this forum. You’re bullshit, what you say is bullshit, do as your told and go hump something.

Get Lost javashit

Then Moll Posted this:

Has this board suddenly turned into Quran-talk? I'm getting fed up with this.

Eventualy all hell broke loose and Javaman went loonie and started back and forth sith insults.

This is one incident...there are MANY more

quote:

---

Originally posted by moll:
I did not delete or lock anything. Again you chose to make assumptions because I was an administrator at the time and I posted in that topic. I DID NOT DELETE OR LOCK ANY POSTS, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THAT?

And you've spent months harrassing me on every Egy board you can lay your hands on. But ffffffinally you've admitted i have NOT 'routinely attacked Muslims'. Big deal.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by elmagnoon:

I really should be going...it's midday here and I've got to get back to wrk.

It was very simple..a guy who was using the name Javaman...he was very knowledge Muslim and very interested in discussing Islam.
He coied and psted Dua' as it was Ramadan then....and this is what followed:

Bizo:

what is the your point javaman posting all that religious stuff...

we don't like it this way and no one is intersted in your religious crap so please please save us the hassle of fighting with you... you know nothing about how nasty we turn when fighting.

and this this:

Bizo:

Javazeft

do not start with me.
anyway, please er7am gehazi el tanasoly men el nafkh dah.

Enta yabni ghabi, they told you we are not fuckin intersted in your religious stuff.. are you mentally handicaped??
I bet you are a frustrated , ya3ni law bete3mal wa7ed kowayes makontesh waga3at rasna bel malal beta3ak dah.

roo7 yabni get laid walla edrablak 3ashara... Fokk nafsak ya3ni..
FRUSTRATION is no GOOD for you

then Dunes posted this:

My sentiments exactly bizo . Javashit fits the profile of a sexually frustrated Religious weirdo. Fundamentalist in beedon ala carte.

Take your Quran and your beloved bullshit out of this forum. You’re bullshit, what you say is bullshit, do as your told and go hump something.

Get Lost javashit

Then Moll Posted this:

Has this board suddenly turned into Quran-talk? I'm getting fed up with this.

Eventualy all hell broke loose and Javaman went loonie and started back and forth sith insults.

This is one incident...there are MANY more

[This message has been edited by elmagnoon (edited 23 August 2004).]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shareen:
Gotta hand it to you elmagnoon..... nice bit of creative editing there!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by moll:
and then elmagnoon went loonie with my 'attack on Muslims' (see above) where I said I was fed up with endless posts from the Koran, just as I'd have been fed up with endless quotes from the Bible or the Torah or endless quotes from anything, and started harrassing me and accusing me of 'routine attacks on Islam/Muslims', on every Egy board he could come up with.

Think that's you up to date now, kimo.

---

1- That was not an example of your atracks on muslims that was an example of what Bizo and Dunes ROUTINELY do.

2-I don't go around after you, not in any way it you who keep going on EM and ES and now your husband on YE...what do you expect me to do?Just ignore the lies.

All this is beside the point, You and I know what Bizo does that scum of the earth attacks Muslims regulary and you and your buddies on ET support him in one way or another....so enough crap already...I don't care about you I never have and I never will.
You come up as an absolute ZERO.The issue is about the truth which you and others for have refused to admit.

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
So come on, explain why those spammers on ET deserved better? They came to a privately owned secular forum and started copy-paste'ing, so what should the admins have done? Come on Magnoon I am neutral on this, convince me.

---

How in the world did you know for a fact that he was Spamming? How very Neutral

-Your pictures are UN-Islamic.
-Your Pictures are UN-Egyptian.

They reflect a Western attitude... they do not in any way resemble an Egyptian woman's behavior, and that's exactly why I did not comment on them...you're neither Muslim nor Egyptian. But do not fool yourself with crappy polls conducted on a forum filled with westerners and psychos like Bizo and kafirs like Ziad.

You ,most people on ET as well as many on ES and at the matter of fact most Foreigners do not in any way understand Islam nor Egypt. It’s that simple.

When Karin Farid stated that a woman welcoming a man in her home is indecent she was absolutely right.. Islamicly as well as Culturally.
Egyptian as well as Muslim women do not invite men in their homes while they're alone.
Egyptian and Muslim men do not ask to be invited for tea by a woman alone at home.

Whether westerners view that as indecent or not is beside the point. Egyptians do find it indecent...that simple.
It has nothing to do with class. It’s right across the board in Maadi, Zamalik or Shubra.

You as well as most of the idiots on ET , many on ES and many others, state that they like Islam but it's the fanatics and extremists who put you off Islam. Then you start talking about the different interpretation of Quran.

The fact is, anyone making statement about Islam that does not correspond with your view of the world is automatically labeled as Fanatic.
The fact is, Scholars interpret the Quran and we are required to seek their advice.
For the most part they are in total agreement. The few issues that are interpreted differently do not influence our understanding of Islam as a whole.

Whether Egyptian practice Islam in the same way is also beside the point. Those who engage in sexual activity outside of marriage have no effect on Quran nor do they even deny it's a Sin. The same goes for drinking and other issues.
Those who refuse to engage in such acts are not fanatics and describing Sinners as Moderates is pure stupidity.

quote:

---

Originally posted by brian04:
To Moll and Wolfe,
I apologize for the comments I have made on es and the negativity they caused.

Hope everything works out for moll and wolf.....

all the best
brian

[This message has been edited by brian04 (edited 21 August 2004).]

---

WHY?

quote:

---

Originally posted by elmagnoon:
And now onto the simple facts:

-Your pictures are UN-Islamic.
-Your Pictures are UN-Egyptian.

They reflect a Western attitude... they do not in any way resemble an Egyptian woman's behavior, and that's exactly why I did not comment on them...you're neither Muslim nor Egyptian. But do not fool yourself with crappy polls conducted on a forum filled with westerners and psychos like Bizo and kafirs like Ziad.

You ,most people on ET as well as many on ES and at the matter of fact most Foreigners do not in any way understand Islam nor Egypt. It’s that simple.

When Karin Farid stated that a woman welcoming a man in her home is indecent she was absolutely right.. Islamicly as well as Culturally.
Egyptian as well as Muslim women do not invite men in their homes while they're alone.
Egyptian and Muslim men do not ask to be invited for tea by a woman alone at home.

Whether westerners view that as indecent or not is beside the point. Egyptians do find it indecent...that simple.
It has nothing to do with class. It’s right across the board in Maadi, Zamalik or Shubra.

You as well as most of the idiots on ET , many on ES and many others, state that they like Islam but it's the fanatics and extremists who put you off Islam. Then you start talking about the different interpretation of Quran.

The fact is, anyone making statement about Islam that does not correspond with your view of the world is automatically labeled as Fanatic.
The fact is, Scholars interpret the Quran and we are required to seek their advice.
For the most part they are in total agreement. The few issues that are interpreted differently do not influence our understanding of Islam as a whole.

Whether Egyptian practice Islam in the same way is also beside the point. Those who engage in sexual activity outside of marriage have no effect on Quran nor do they even deny it's a Sin. The same goes for drinking and other issues.
Those who refuse to engage in such acts are not fanatics and describing Sinners as Moderates is pure stupidity.

---

COULDN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE

MOLLHATER

quote:

---

Originally posted by elmagnoon:
And now onto the simple facts:

-Your pictures are UN-Islamic.
-Your Pictures are UN-Egyptian.

They reflect a Western attitude... they do not in any way resemble an Egyptian woman's behavior, and that's exactly why I did not comment on them...you're neither Muslim nor Egyptian. But do not fool yourself with crappy polls conducted on a forum filled with westerners and psychos like Bizo and kafirs like Ziad.

You ,most people on ET as well as many on ES and at the matter of fact most Foreigners do not in any way understand Islam nor Egypt. It’s that simple.

When Karin Farid stated that a woman welcoming a man in her home is indecent she was absolutely right.. Islamicly as well as Culturally.
Egyptian as well as Muslim women do not invite men in their homes while they're alone.
Egyptian and Muslim men do not ask to be invited for tea by a woman alone at home.

Whether westerners view that as indecent or not is beside the point. Egyptians do find it indecent...that simple.
It has nothing to do with class. It’s right across the board in Maadi, Zamalik or Shubra.

You as well as most of the idiots on ET , many on ES and many others, state that they like Islam but it's the fanatics and extremists who put you off Islam. Then you start talking about the different interpretation of Quran.

The fact is, anyone making statement about Islam that does not correspond with your view of the world is automatically labeled as Fanatic.
The fact is, Scholars interpret the Quran and we are required to seek their advice.
For the most part they are in total agreement. The few issues that are interpreted differently do not influence our understanding of Islam as a whole.

Whether Egyptian practice Islam in the same way is also beside the point. Those who engage in sexual activity outside of marriage have no effect on Quran nor do they even deny it's a Sin. The same goes for drinking and other issues.
Those who refuse to engage in such acts are not fanatics and describing Sinners as Moderates is pure stupidity.

---

The brand of Islam you describe is fanatic because it suggests that scholars should be the only people responsible for interpretation. Ancient Muslims had no notion of clergy or scholars, there is ABSOLUTELY no intermediary between God and man.

quote:

---

Originally posted by elmagnoon:
How in the world did you know for a fact that he was Spamming? How very Neutral

---

Okay let's stop beating around the bush. When this happened moll asked me to have a look at it from a neutral observer point of view, so I actually DO know what happened there.

Magnoon, this guy was posting stuff about how the Egyptian army should fight the government. About how Islam forbids dealing with "infidels". He had a very fatalistic, suicidal, violent view of life. Yes I do consider that fanatic.

The way in which Bizo or Dunes responded is not really that big a point. Especially Dunes, nobody ever took him seriously. He doesn't take himself seriously. These two have attacked me personally more viciously and I don't feel they are the prime evil the way you do.

Now the bottom line is that ET/ES/YE/EM are secular boards. There are Islamic boards of every affiliation out there, people are free to post to them. Imagine what would happen to someone who copy-pastes atheist articles to an extreme Islamic board, for sure they would be banned without discussion.

These boards could use a religious thread every now and then, but these threads have to be personal. They have to be people asking questions, and others responding. That was not what Salahudin was posting, he was posting dogma, and there is no discussing dogma.

quote:

---

Originally posted by elmagnoon:

Typical of you and people like you, smart ass remarks without any foundation...go ahead explain what you mean.

---

My smart ass remark has a rock solid foundation. I am a member of ET, I have been a member here for much longer. I have witnessed first hand the spamming of ET to such an extent that it was almost brought down by the sheer volume of incredibly long "cut and paste" quotations from the Koran. I have witnessed first hand the verbal abuse from your friend Javaman, and can you deny that he and his entourage threated to overwhelm ET with spam posts. As for Salahudin, he still posts on ET, but his posts are more of a discussion now. I would not be happy if someone was filling this particular forum with ridiculously long quotes from the Bible or the Torah in just the same way as I do not wish to see whole threads taken over by the Koran.
If I wish to read any of these tomes, I have copies of my own and I will read them at my leisure.
As for your "creative editing". Come on now, we can all pick and choose which bits of a post we wish to copy and paste, and if we want we can choose only those parts which we wish to use to make our point and conveniently omit the other side of the story.
I studied statistics....... and you know what? Statistics can be manipulated to say anything you want them to say, its only the bits you dont say which define if they are true or not. And of course if we wish to create a false statistic then we simply omit the bits we dont like.

Does that explain myself?

Oh, and Salahudin is not even egyptian, he is pakistani, living in England, so what exactly would his reason be for posting long quotes from the Koran and attempting to incite egyptians to overthrow their government? He admitted he was a member of a terrorist organisation. Is it any wonder that some egyptians on ET defended their country, and did not want to be associated with a person of this type?
To tell you the truth, it bloody scares me. Extremism in the nature of Salahudin scares me, especially when I know he lives less than 15 miles from my own home.

Please feel free to attack me personally now that I have dared to put a different point of view from your own.

As others have said, ET and ES have a mix of western and egyptian. They are not forums solely dedicated to egyptians or islam. Therefore a balance has to be found where everyone can enjoy the discussions that take place.

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
Okay let's stop beating around the bush. When this happened moll asked me to have a look at it from a neutral observer point of view, so I actually DO know what happened there.

---

You're discussing Salahudin, the above example was of Javaman....
The attack on Javaman can not be adequately described but inhumane comes to mind.

You're jumping to conclusions and playing wise man again and most of all you're being misled by you so called Friends.
The threads that included the attack on Javaman have been deleted and the only ones left are the ones were he went completely nuts.

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:
The brand of Islam you describe is fanatic because it suggests that scholars should be the only people responsible for interpretation. Ancient Muslims had no notion of clergy or scholars, there is ABSOLUTELY no intermediary between God and man.

---

It was directed at Moll and included response to arguments she always makes as well as a reference to other posts...it was an all in one kind of post.

Re-read what I posted, I did not suggest that ONLY scholars are allowed to interpret Quran nor did I suggest an intermediary.

quote:

---

Originally posted by kimo_the_maniac:

And no one is discussing whether or not extra marital sex is haram or not (although that could be a nice discussion, it's not nearly as simple as it sounds). What everyone is discussing is a non-sexual photo. And no one is discussing whether or not participating in it is Islamic or not (although that could also be interesting). The real issue is if non-Muslims have the right to do it. These people were in a party attended mainly by secular and non-Muslim people, in a non-Muslim home. The photos were posted on a secular forum, for a largely secular membership. That's all Magnoon. Respecting Isalm means that when moll has a silly photo taken, she respects me (e.g.) for not participating, NOT that she doesn't have it taken. And tolerance means that when I don't take part in the photo I respect other people doing so
.

---

You're all over the place and I'm not sure what you're point is plus it's getting really boring.

Kimo likes to use words like Dogma and Fanatic without qualification. There is no way of arguing a point that does not exist.

I choose to reply to your post because it's organized and to the point.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shareen:
My smart ass remark has a rock solid foundation. I am a member of ET, I have been a member here for much longer. I have witnessed first hand the spamming of ET to such an extent that it was almost brought down by the sheer volume of incredibly long "cut and paste" quotations from the Koran. I have witnessed first hand the verbal abuse from your friend Javaman, and can you deny that he and his entourage threated to overwhelm ET with spam posts.

---

You are correct, I recall you coming at the time of the spamming .
-Javaman had already been attacked and the threads have been removed.
-Javaman had already been banned.
-All the spamming (the long cut and paste) were my doing not his.
-Javaman had no entourage. There was Javamn and there was me and we did not know each other before and I don't have any idea of how to contact him. He is long gone.

My point is, you did not witness the attack and did not read the original thread, trust me it was appalling. Therefore you do not have FIRST hand knowledge to claim you have rock solid foundation.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shareen:

As for Salahudin, he still posts on ET, but his posts are more of a discussion now. I would not be happy if someone was filling this particular forum with ridiculously long quotes from the Bible or the Torah in just the same way as I do not wish to see whole threads taken over by the Koran.
If I wish to read any of these tomes, I have copies of my own and I will read them at my leisure.

---

I didn't see the posts where you claim he posted "Bible or the Torah " nor do I care to see them. I read the Political/Islamic posts, the ones signed as "Hizbu Eltahrir".

It was always a discussion. That’s what was so wrong about what Ayman and Moll did.
If he was spamming and they warned him or banned him it would've been different. What they did was to engage him in a discussion and then insult him repeatedly. Read the threads that he was politely and logically answering their questions. The problem was they did not like his logic; they could not win the argument so they attacked him personally while acting as administrators and abusing their powers. Whether I agree with his view of the world is of no relevance here.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shareen:

As for your "creative editing". Come on now, we can all pick and choose which bits of a post we wish to copy and paste, and if we want we can choose only those parts which we wish to use to make our point and conveniently omit the other side of the story.
I studied statistics....... and you know what? Statistics can be manipulated to say anything you want them to say, its only the bits you dont say which define if they are true or not. And of course if we wish to create a false statistic then we simply omit the bits we dont like.

---

That says it all, you did not read the thread where they attacked Javaman and that's why you believe it to be creative writing. Where is the solid foundation now?

You know what Shareen, it was creative editing. You see, I no longer have those web pages. I deleted them months ago but only after I used them in a similar context against ET only with different results.

Here is the link: http://egypttalk.net/cgi-local/ikonboard.cgi?s=fc6125a4371bd1844991bb4cf768a679;act=ST;f=1;t=5639;st=80

What I did was copy from the attack on Javaman and pasted them as attack on kemety. Notice Moll,dalia and most others had competely different response from the one when Javaman was attacked. JAVAMAN IS MULSIM…….KEMETY IS NOT.

Also notice how GOGO and specially Nimrodel recognized the posts to be a copy and paste.So what I had to do is copy from Kemety's thread and edit it back to reflect the attack on Javaman..are you lost yet?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shareen:

Oh, and Salahudin is not even egyptian, he is pakistani, living in England, so what exactly would his reason be for posting long quotes from the Koran and attempting to incite egyptians to overthrow their government?

---

You answered that question in you post by writing:
As others have said, ET and ES have a mix of western and egyptian. They are not forums solely dedicated to egyptians or islam. Therefore a balance has to be found where everyone can enjoy the discussions that take place.

He is the balance. He does not have to Egyptian to post on an Egyptian forum. In his mind he finds a relation between his cause and Egypt. He is Muslim and is addressing Egyptian Muslims.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shareen:

He admitted he was a member of a terrorist organisation. Is it any wonder that some egyptians on ET defended their country, and did not want to be associated with a person of this type?
To tell you the truth, it bloody scares me. Extremism in the nature of Salahudin scares me, especially when I know he lives less than 15 miles from my own home.

---

I find it quite amusing to read the above followed by:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shareen:

Please feel free to attack me personally now that I have dared to put a different point of view from your own.

---

You labeled him as an Extremist because he has a different view. You don’t “want to be associated with a person of this type" because he has a different view.
To my knowledge Hizb El Tahrir is NOT a "terrorist organisation" in England and that's where he resides so he has the right to be a member of that organization.
[/B][/QUOTE]

There are others who witnessed what happened to Javaman.I wasn't the only one.
Some of them are decent enough to tell the truth.Go ask them and find out the T R U T H.

quote:

---

Originally posted by elmagnoon:
And now onto the simple facts:

-Your pictures are UN-Islamic.
-Your Pictures are UN-Egyptian.

---

listen, shithead. if you are that offended by posts and whatever, and if you regard them as un-islamic and un-egyptian, then stay off ET, for **** sake, no one wants you there anyway. i told you before that i think that you truly are the best example to put people off egypt and especially islam, so there you go. good muslim, yeah, exactly what it says in the quran.

quote:

---

Originally posted by elmagnoon:

It was very simple..a guy who was using the name Javaman...he was very knowledge Muslim and very interested in discussing Islam.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by elmagnoon:
Shareen,

Kimo likes to use words like Dogma and Fanatic without qualification. There is no way of arguing a point that does not exist.

I choose to reply to your post because it's organized and to the point.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Shareen:
My smart ass remark has a rock solid foundation. I am a member of ET, I have been a member here for much longer. I have witnessed first hand the spamming of ET to such an extent that it was almost brought down by the sheer volume of incredibly long "cut and paste" quotations from the Koran. I have witnessed first hand the verbal abuse from your friend Javaman, and can you deny that he and his entourage threated to overwhelm ET with spam posts.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are correct, I recall you coming at the time of the spamming .
-Javaman had already been attacked and the threads have been removed.
-Javaman had already been banned.
-All the spamming (the long cut and paste) were my doing not his.
-Javaman had no entourage. There was Javamn and there was me and we did not know each other before and I don't have any idea of how to contact him. He is long gone.

My point is, you did not witness the attack and did not read the original thread, trust me it was appalling. Therefore you do not have FIRST hand knowledge to claim you have rock solid foundation.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Shareen:

As for Salahudin, he still posts on ET, but his posts are more of a discussion now. I would not be happy if someone was filling this particular forum with ridiculously long quotes from the Bible or the Torah in just the same way as I do not wish to see whole threads taken over by the Koran.
If I wish to read any of these tomes, I have copies of my own and I will read them at my leisure.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I didn't see the posts where you claim he posted "Bible or the Torah " nor do I care to see them. I read the Political/Islamic posts, the ones signed as "Hizbu Eltahrir".

It was always a discussion. That’s what was so wrong about what Ayman and Moll did.
If he was spamming and they warned him or banned him it would've been different. What they did was to engage him in a discussion and then insult him repeatedly. Read the threads that he was politely and logically answering their questions. The problem was they did not like his logic; they could not win the argument so they attacked him personally while acting as administrators and abusing their powers. Whether I agree with his view of the world is of no relevance here.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Shareen:

As for your "creative editing". Come on now, we can all pick and choose which bits of a post we wish to copy and paste, and if we want we can choose only those parts which we wish to use to make our point and conveniently omit the other side of the story.
I studied statistics....... and you know what? Statistics can be manipulated to say anything you want them to say, its only the bits you dont say which define if they are true or not. And of course if we wish to create a false statistic then we simply omit the bits we dont like.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That says it all, you did not read the thread where they attacked Javaman and that's why you believe it to be creative writing. Where is the solid foundation now?

You know what Shareen, it was creative editing. You see, I no longer have those web pages. I deleted them months ago but only after I used them in a similar context against ET only with different results.

Here is the link: http://egypttalk.net/cgi-local/ikonboard.cgi?s=fc6125a4371bd1844991bb4cf768a679;act=ST;f=1;t=5639;st=80

What I did was copy from the attack on Javaman and pasted them as attack on kemety. Notice Moll,dalia and most others had competely different response from the one when Javaman was attacked. JAVAMAN IS MULSIM…….KEMETY IS NOT.

Also notice how GOGO and specially Nimrodel recognized the posts to be a copy and paste.So what I had to do is copy from Kemety's thread and edit it back to reflect the attack on Javaman..are you lost yet?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Shareen:

Oh, and Salahudin is not even egyptian, he is pakistani, living in England, so what exactly would his reason be for posting long quotes from the Koran and attempting to incite egyptians to overthrow their government?

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You answered that question in you post by writing:
As others have said, ET and ES have a mix of western and egyptian. They are not forums solely dedicated to egyptians or islam. Therefore a balance has to be found where everyone can enjoy the discussions that take place.

He is the balance. He does not have to Egyptian to post on an Egyptian forum. In his mind he finds a relation between his cause and Egypt. He is Muslim and is addressing Egyptian Muslims.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Shareen:

He admitted he was a member of a terrorist organisation. Is it any wonder that some egyptians on ET defended their country, and did not want to be associated with a person of this type?
To tell you the truth, it bloody scares me. Extremism in the nature of Salahudin scares me, especially when I know he lives less than 15 miles from my own home.

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I find it quite amusing to read the above followed by:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Shareen:

Please feel free to attack me personally now that I have dared to put a different point of view from your own.

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You labeled him as an Extremist because he has a different view. You don’t “want to be associated with a person of this type" because he has a different view.
To my knowledge Hizb El Tahrir is NOT a "terrorist organisation" in England and that's where he resides so he has the right to be a member of that organization.

There are others who witnessed what happened to Javaman.I wasn't the only one.
Some of them are decent enough to tell the truth.Go ask them and find out the T R U T H.

Nimrodel
GOGO
Neurowave.
Gdr2

---

Well thank you for responding elmagnoon, but please allow me to put you straight on a few points.

Firstly, you do not recall my coming to ET, simply because I was already there. If you care to check my profile on ET you will see that I am a founder member. I have been there from its inception.
Secondly, I was personally involved in the banning of Javaman, the deleting of his posts, and the banning of numerous ip addresses being used by Javaman1, Javaman1 through to Javaman20 who were all online and filling all threads with enormously long quotes from the Koran.
Thirdly, I DID witness the attack! The only people online at that time were myself and Dunes. Dunes was moderator only, not administrator and he was limited in what he could do. However, I was in a position to obtain Admin responsibilities, which I did, and between us we cleared up the mess.
Fourthly, I never said either you or Javaman posted quotes from the Bible or Torah, I merely said I had no desire to see them in the same way I have no desire to see quotes from the Koran.
Fifthly, I do not see how copying and pasting quotes from the Koran can be in any way, shape or form classed as logical discussion.
Sixthly, I appreciate that any forum such as ET can be used by any nationality, but you did not answer my question as to why Salahudin was attempting to incite egyptians to overthrow their government.
Seventhly.. I labelled Salahudin as extremist because his views are extreme and not simply because they are different than mine.

Finally, I wish to say....

I did witness the "attack" from all parties involved, I did read the original thread and all threads that followed, I did read the thread where they attacked Javaman, and I deleted most of Javamans threads myself. I did read Salahudins threads, and I did see the attacks upon him also.

This is the rock solid foundation I base my discussion on.

Is that enough for you?

This is my last post on this subject. I have no wish to get into arguments about what I may or may not have seen. I KNOW what I saw, I KNOW what I did, I KNOW what I think.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shareen:

Firstly, you do not recall my coming to ET, simply because I was already there. If you care to check my profile on ET you will see that I am a founder member. I have been there from its inception.
.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shareen:

Secondly, I was personally involved in the banning of Javaman, the deleting of his posts, and the banning of numerous ip addresses being used by Javaman1, Javaman1 through to Javaman20 who were all online and filling all threads with enormously long quotes from the Koran.
.

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Wrong, it was "MagnoonLeader" and "elmagnoon1" through elmagnoon10" and they were all me.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shareen:

Thirdly, I DID witness the attack! The only people online at that time were myself and Dunes. Dunes were moderator only, not administrator and he was limited in what he could do.
.

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Wrong, at the time they attacked Javaman, dunes was neither a moderator nor an administrator. That is why I'm saying you did not witness the initial attack, you came late. You may have witness the last part of the attacks but you were probably there before the Dua' thread was deleted.

Fifthly, I do not see how copying and pasting quotes from the Koran can be in any way, shape or form classed as logical discussion.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shareen:

Sixthly, I appreciate that any forum such as ET can be used by any nationality, but you did not answer my question as to why Salahudin was attempting to incite egyptians to overthrow their government.
.

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I don't speak for Salahudin or anyone else. I can't answer your question

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shareen:

I did witness the "attack" from all parties involved, I did read the original thread and all threads that followed, I did read the thread where they attacked Javaman, and I deleted most of Javamans threads myself. I did read Salahudins threads, and I did see the attacks upon him also.

This is the rock solid foundation I base my discussion on.
.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by elmagnoon:
And???? You continue to act as a moderator or an adminsteator and thereby supporting a group of thugs who routinely attack Muslims.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dalia:
Aw, come on, ya magnoon ... you've been spotted at the last ET gathering.

[/B]

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elmagnoon got a bit nervous when he discoverd the disastrous effect the drug had on some ET members.

dalia, how can you post such crude.....almost pornographic....pictures on a board like this! mish mumkin! you might offend some of the people here!

Dalia, I just right clicked on those sheep photos, and posted them on another site, made a few unfavorable comments on them.

Sheep Name: Dalia
Adopted by: Darrel
Adoption date: 08/08/2003
Certificate No: 9642

quote:

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Originally posted by elmagnoon:
http://www.sheepemporium.com/certif.asp?ID=9642

Sheep Name: Dalia
Adopted by: Darrel
Adoption date: 08/08/2003
Certificate No: 9642

[This message has been edited by elmagnoon (edited 27 August 2004).]

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Elmagnoon, you didn't copy a photo of the sheep Dalia from another site and post it on ES did you

quote:

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Originally posted by AnotherNewMember:

Elmagnoon, you didn't copy a photo of the sheep Dalia from another site and post it on ES did you

The nerve!

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Listen, moron, this whole thing was not about copying my pic from another site, it was about creeps like you who saw it and used it as ammunition to attack me because either a) I'm a friend of Jane b) I'm an admin on another site c) they don't like me personally (as if I care) d) they were too scared to give their opinions on ET, they had to hide behind new names on ES e) they hate all westerners or f) they're just plain psycho.

Oh and a couple of questions for elmagnoon:
since you're so shithot on freedom of speech, how do you feel about a whole topic on YE being deleted just because somebody had the nerve to say it was boring?
And is the pic on the topic of 'equality' on YE Islamic? I'm not Muslim and I really need your guidance here, since you've set yourself up as an authority on what's an Islamic pic and what's an un-Islamic pic.

Interesting though.

Moll: I don't know you or know of you, and I can see why some might attack you for being a non-Egyptian, non-Muslim moderator or administrator of an Egypt related forum, but why would anyone want to attack you for being a friend of Jane?

quote:

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Originally posted by Luxorlover:
I am not a poster on ET and have found all this fascinating BUT I am still confused as to why there is a whole line on ES that relates to ET anyway.

Interesting though.

Moll: I don't know you or know of you, and I can see why some might attack you for being a non-Egyptian, non-Muslim moderator or administrator of an Egypt related forum, but why would anyone want to attack you for being a friend of Jane?

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Good question, LL, I've wondered a lot about that myself.

If you want to know how this whole thing started, there's a topic in Share Your Egyptian Experiences called 'Orfi, how does the Egyptian woman truly feel' (10 Aug) where I posted a couple of lines in defence of Jane and after that all hell was let loose, but a lot of it's been deleted now so I'm not surprised you're confused.

In fact, just 10 minutes ago I tried to reply to a post in YE but it appears I've been banned from posting there, after all of two posts a couple of weeks ago....so much fr freedom of speech.

LL, I know you're a member there, and I just wonder if it ever occurs to the members there that if I chose to, I could make YE just as bitchy and just as much a battleground as other sites, registering under another name and IP address every day, just for the hell of spoiling it for everyone. Sometimes I really wish I had the vindictiveness to do it, but I don't.

There are some on that site that I have the greatest respect for (Sphinx, Kat, Laura and a few others). But, all forums are the same. There are always some that deliberately set out to get up people's noses and start fights. In forum terms it is the arguments that get the attention and attract new members. You are wise to let it go and let the fight end there. I noticed that someone here signed on as Moll Hater. Don't come down to that level, no matter how provoked you are.

As far as moderators are concerned though I have to say that the only one I have real respect for is Ausar. He starts lines, gives advice and stays out of all arguments. I moderate for exam boards in England but I am not allowed near a centre that I know anything about. Moderators are totally impartial observers that apply standards - and they should stay that way. They are not participators. Also all information that they receive other than that posted on the forum (which is public property), is confidential. But, people are human and it is difficult to remain disinterested. (rather than uninterested).

quote:

---

Originally posted by moll:
Listen, moron, this whole thing was not about copying my pic from another site, it was about creeps like you who saw it and used it as ammunition to attack me because either a) I'm a friend of Jane b) I'm an admin on another site c) they don't like me personally (as if I care) d) they were too scared to give their opinions on ET, they had to hide behind new names on ES e) they hate all westerners or f) they're just plain psycho.

Oh and a couple of questions for elmagnoon:
since you're so shithot on freedom of speech, how do you feel about a whole topic on YE being deleted just because somebody had the nerve to say it was boring?
And is the pic on the topic of 'equality' on YE Islamic? I'm not Muslim and I really need your guidance here, since you've set yourself up as an authority on what's an Islamic pic and what's an un-Islamic pic.

[This message has been edited by moll (edited 28 August 2004).]

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Ok, so I'm a "moron" and a "creep", anymore Unfavorable comments about me?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Luxorlover:
Moll - I am a member of YE and I like that forum but I have only made a few posts there recently. (So much Egyptian script that I can't understand half of it - all 3's and 7's - and the YS/YT fight spilled over into it confusing me even more - as I had been off line for a week and could not figure out what was going on).

There are some on that site that I have the greatest respect for (Sphinx, Kat, Laura and a few others). But, all forums are the same. There are always some that deliberately set out to get up people's noses and start fights. In forum terms it is the arguments that get the attention and attract new members. You are wise to let it go and let the fight end there. I noticed that someone here signed on as Moll Hater. Don't come down to that level, no matter how provoked you are.

As far as moderators are concerned though I have to say that the only one I have real respect for is Ausar. He starts lines, gives advice and stays out of all arguments. I moderate for exam boards in England but I am not allowed near a centre that I know anything about. Moderators are totally impartial observers that apply standards - and they should stay that way. They are not participators. Also all information that they receive other than that posted on the forum (which is public property), is confidential. But, people are human and it is difficult to remain disinterested. (rather than uninterested).

[This message has been edited by Luxorlover (edited 28 August 2004).]

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I agree with what you said about the moderators wholeheatedly. I just read through some of the threads on the section Ausar moderates, and I notice that he recognizes petty arguments from serious debates, and just allows the debates to continue as long as they are civil without name calling and personal attacks.

I wonder why he can't just moderate this side of the forum? I love healthy debates, but not a whole lot of interest in History.

quote:

---

Originally posted by moll:
Listen, moron, this whole thing was not about copying my pic from another site, it was about creeps like you who saw it and used it as ammunition to attack me because either a) I'm a friend of Jane b) I'm an admin on another site c) they don't like me personally (as if I care) d) they were too scared to give their opinions on ET, they had to hide behind new names on ES e) they hate all westerners or f) they're just plain psycho.

Oh and a couple of questions for elmagnoon:
since you're so shithot on freedom of speech, how do you feel about a whole topic on YE being deleted just because somebody had the nerve to say it was boring?
And is the pic on the topic of 'equality' on YE Islamic? I'm not Muslim and I really need your guidance here, since you've set yourself up as an authority on what's an Islamic pic and what's an un-Islamic pic.

---

I'm not sure which pic on YE you're refering to, I recall the thread"Equality" but not much else about it.

At the matter of fact just last night I decided not to post on YE anymore because over moderation and the fact that I can not even read the forum whthout having to sign in first.....not my style.

You've got to get over those pics.You asked whether it's offensive and I told you they were not offensive to me but the absolute facts are: They are Un-Islamic and Un-Egyptian and you are neither so I don't see what the big deal is. You need to understand that you beavior in the pics seem odd to Egyptians. You were never Egyptian or Muslim. Even before the pics people disagreed with you on many points, why are you bothered so much about what poeple thing of you pics.

People attacked you before the pics and for as long as you're on forums you will be attacked for one thing or the other. Using your photos against a person is not new.

quote:

---

Originally posted by moll:
a) I'm a friend of Jane

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Thank God you are still using present tense.

I have noticed in the latest cycle of attacks various members seemed to take it turns to attack others. It is a total puzzlement to me. Attack their views by all means but why them personally and why bring in another board. I am a member of an computer related board and I have never seem stuff being copied and attacked.

And anyway these forum is about Egypt not about me. Moll, Kimo, Luxorlover, Ayman or any of the recent victims. So can we get back to the subject. Our beloved Egypt

Honestly the x thousand members who read this board do not want to hear this stuff

quote:

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Originally posted by akshar:

Thank God you are still using present tense.

I have noticed in the latest cycle of attacks various members seemed to take it turns to attack others. It is a total puzzlement to me. Attack their views by all means but why them personally and why bring in another board. I am a member of an computer related board and I have never seem stuff being copied and attacked.

And anyway these forum is about Egypt not about me. Moll, Kimo, Luxorlover, Ayman or any of the recent victims. So can we get back to the subject. Our beloved Egypt

Honestly the x thousand members who read this board do not want to hear this stuff

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Well, sometimes I wonder if the last sentence is true. It seems people DO gravitate towards a fight. And I think a few people do enjoy being the victims in a fight.