The children then learn the wrong lessons of life. They do not learn that they need to study and work hard to earn a living so that they can eventually support their families and lead a good life. They learn that the tourists are rich beyond their dreams and stupid enough to just give their money away. I am sure that is how all of Egypt's gigolos started on the road to their pitifully grubby lives. Lives that eventually run just short of outright theft.

A child that has been decently brought up by his family might ask you for "bon-bonee" or a "pen" but would never ask for money. Ask the child why "Lay" they should be given backsheesh when they have done nothing for it and they usually back off.

If you want to give your money away like that - give it to one of the orphanages. They will know where it should go.

My taxi driver wasn't too happy what I did. I can care less because I knew that woman was able to buy something to eat for her and her little one. Many people there live in poverty, salaries are very low, usually the men only work and who knows - she might was already a widow.

I also like to tip the rubbish people for their services. They are the ones walking miles during the day and even night time and trying to clean up. I wish more people would be doing that.

I recommend not to tip children, try candy instead. But it actually happened only couple of times to me.

Also it can almost cause street fights. I have a friend in Luxor who gave to one boy and then was attacked and his money grabbed out of his hands by a dozen others. This is what it can lead to. The smallest boy who escaped with a note will only be beaten up and the money taken by the bigger boys. Please do not think noble thoughts about this because it does happen.

Please think carefully about what you give. Five Egyptian pounds might not seem much to you but it is probably as much as the child's father earns in a day. Why should the child ever consider working if he can make that much just by doing nothing except smile. When his smile is not enough he will turn to other things.

In Cairo we never give money to children on the street because as LL says you are teaching them a very bad lesson in life. They should be in school learning the things they need to know to make them decent human beings.

So please everybody you can actually make a difference by not giving them money...a pen or sweets yes...but nothing more.

We had gone to the Ramesis shopping centre.
When we came out there was a man and his two children begging.

They were making signs towards their mouths saying they were hungry, they were dirty and shabby looking, no shoes. We walked to the car and they followed,making signs towards their mouths.

Earlier my friend and I had been to a restaurant and as usual had been given to much food, we both have a small appetite. So with the chicken and salad we had left we made sandwiches with egyptian bread and tahina. Delicious. Thought they would be nice later for supper.

When we arrived at the car still being pursued by the clan, I said to my frien why not give them the sandwiches they are hungry.
So we offered them the sandwiches which they took in a very disgruntled manor. As we drove off they threw the sandwiches in the road, how ungrateful, but I could see the funny side of it.

If you worry about a child being hungry, by the kid some food rather than give them money. This still continues the cycle because it just means the woman in black doesn't have to feed the kid that day but at least you know they got something decent to eat.

A dollar is 6 LE, a family of 5 can eat off 6 LE for a whole week

1. It can buy a kilogram of fuul beans
2. with several slices of bread
3. a few cheap vegetables

nothing to me, but a lot to a starving family who may work all day long in the hot sun for 3 LE a day.

Now how have I blown a dollar, hmm let me think..
1. on lottery scratch tickets just for fun
2. on coffee, that I sipped, and threw the rest away
3. on junk I could have done without
4. tipping an undeserving waitress

I could go on, the point is, a dollar is not going to make me or break me, but it could go a long way for some. Unlike England or USA, its not on some bum who plans to use it on drugs or booze. I think if I'm blessed enough to blow a dollar, I can give it to a begging child without having to think of a lecture of what is this teaching a child. Here's an idea, ask them to shine your shoes, if you want to teach them to work, but usually beggars in poorer countries are hungry and desperate, not lazy drug addicts.

Penny In my opinion, I think you stepped very low to compare ANY kids to a pack of dogs. I was in complete shock reading it.

Isn't it interesting how our government and tax payers blow money on low moral women like this, while countries like Egypt dont even have anything near a benefits system. I mean women can get social benefits for sitting on their lazy butts getting screwed while people work all day and dont get near as much.

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Originally posted by AnotherNewMember:
LL weren't you talking about how women from the UK are abusing your country's benefits system and coming to live in Egypt like they are middle class with their play boys.

Isn't it interesting how our government and tax payers blow money on low moral women like this, while countries like Egypt dont even have anything near a benefits system. I mean women can get social benefits for sitting on their lazy butts getting screwed while people work all day and dont get near as much.

Its amazing the money the west has to blow.

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AnotherNewMember, you like to talk and hear yourself, don't you?

If you are so concerned about if you should spend a dollar or not on someone or something then watch your own spending.

But if you are coming to a normal discussion board with a quite normal topic (I guess) and you can't find anything but attacking some other people than I guess I am just pressing my "ignore" button.

quote:

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Originally posted by AnotherNewMember:
[B]Here's an idea, ask them to shine your shoes, if you want to teach them to work, but usually beggars in poorer countries are hungry and desperate, not lazy drug addicts.

(/B]

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????????????????? Look to South America. There are many street children and adults who f. e. sniffing glue. Its cheap, gets them high and they might not live the following month........

In an Islamic society this problem would be much reduced as everybody would be paying the zakah (obligatory annual charity “tax”) on their savings, gold, and other required items. (Some scholars say that due to the economic situation in Egypt that the nisab on savings should be that for silver rather than gold, and as that is less than 200LE...from what I remember...then I guess that a very large number of Muslims here should be paying it.) But it’s a sad fact that most people do not pay this, they pay the zakah fitrah (to be paid in Ramadan) which is only about 10LE, and either forget or don’t know about the other. There will always be people, particularly in developing countries, who for one reason or another cannot support themselves and will need help, which is one of the justifications for the zakah system.

I was told by Egyptian friends when I came here that they give 25/50 piasters to people who are begging or who look in need, as it is too easy to judge that a person could be cheating or being used by someone else to get an easy income and not do anything, but it might be that that person hasn’t eaten for a long time too and does actually need assisitance, and they didn’t want that on their conscience.

Just a note about the street kids. It’s easy to say that the children should be in school, but unless they have parents to register them and a home address I understand that they wouldn’t be admitted into school. The orphanages do take many kids, but many of them are so poorly funded that it’s not surprising some of them take to begging to get an income. I don’t know if you read this article when I posted it before, but this seemed an appropriate place to bring it up again.
http://www.streetchildren.org.uk/reports/Egypt%20Child.doc

“…With regard to the age of children on the streets, random NGO samples suggest that 13 years is the average. A quarter of the street child population is believed to be less than 12 years old, with two-thirds between 13 and 16 years old and only 10% over 17.

Factors pushing children onto the streets: The key factors pushing children onto the streets in Egypt are family break-up (divorce, separation, remarriage, and death), large family size, child abuse and neglect, low income and educational levels, unplanned rural-urban migration and children’s difficulties in coping with the formal school system, increasing the rate of drop-out.

Constraints and challenges: Legislation is a problem in that it still permits police to arrest children who are not suspected of crimes but who are ‘vulnerable to delinquency’. This hinders the work of NGOs by preventing children from reaching drop-in centres for rehabilitation. It is also very hard to obtain legal documents for the children such as birth certificates to allow them access to governmental facilities such as healthcare, school or vocational training.

The quality of education and training for social workers is very low and work with street children is not respected in society, which makes it difficult to find qualified or motivated staff. There is very little understanding of children’s needs among actors throughout the system, including police, judiciary and social workers.

There is a lack of cooperation between NGOs and government agencies, which has greatly reduced the range and quality of services available to street children, particularly in terms of alternative rehabilitative strategies such as fostering, which is still not recognised.

Finally, stigma and violence towards street children also hinders active community participation and motivation regarding sustainable rehabilitation programmes…”

quote:

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Originally posted by Tigerlily:
AnotherNewMember, you like to talk and hear yourself, don't you?

If you are so concerned about if you should spend a dollar or not on someone or something then watch your own spending.

But if you are coming to a normal discussion board with a quite normal topic (I guess) and you can't find anything but attacking some other people than I guess I am just pressing my "ignore" button.

Simply stick to the subject. And if you can't remember the actual topic then check the first posting........

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TL I remember the topic was should you give money to begging kids, and MY response was if you have money to "BLOW" then you have money to "GIVE", and if our government has wasteful spendings on people that ABUSE the benefits system then it won't kill us to give in countries that don't have these benefits. I think your use of "attack" in this case is quite overrated on this so-called "normal" board. And I will give my opinion whenever I please. If you don't like it then your IGNORE button (if you can find it), should suit you just fine!

Penny, no I never experienced a group of kids descending upon me in a manner of vicious dogs, so I guess I can't relate to it. However I have had some grown-up men approach me in a manner, that a few four legged creatures come to mind. Nevertheless we're all entitled to our opinions. I was just shocked, nothing more, nothing less.

quote:

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Originally posted by Tigerlily:
AnotherNewMember, you like to talk and hear yourself, don't you?

If you are so concerned about if you should spend a dollar or not on someone or something then watch your own spending.

But if you are coming to a normal discussion board with a quite normal topic (I guess) and you can't find anything but attacking some other people than I guess I am just pressing my "ignore" button.

Simply stick to the subject. And if you can't remember the actual topic then check the first posting........

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TL I remember the topic was should you give money to begging kids, and MY response was if you have money to "BLOW" then you have money to "GIVE", and if our government has wasteful spendings on people that ABUSE the benefits system then it won't kill us to give in countries that don't have these benefits. I think your use of "attack" in this case is quite overrated on this so-called "normal" board. And I will give my opinion whenever I please. If you don't like it then your IGNORE button (if you can find it), should suit you just fine!

Penny, no I never experienced a group of kids descending upon me in a manner of vicious dogs, so I guess I can't relate to it. However I have had some grown-up men approach me in a manner, that a few four legged creatures come to mind. Nevertheless we're all entitled to our opinions. I was just shocked, nothing more, nothing less.