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I'm a Christian and I believe that Jesus was resurrected Son of God. But I sometimes have doubts due to some facts. I'd like to ask you - Muslims - why don't you believe that Jesus was NOT RESURRECTED???
Posts: 274 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by melfenien: I'm a Christian and I believe that Jesus was resurrected Son of God. But I sometimes have doubts due to some facts. I'd like to ask you - Muslims - why don't you believe that Jesus was NOT RESURRECTED???
for sure all musliums here beleive that Jesus will be back at the end of the days before judgement day but they also beleive that Jesus was not died or killed or put in cross but he was rised to sky but he will be back and will kill "Masseigh the charmer" ( a great charmer and a false prophet will be appare in the last days )
[This message has been edited by MohdAnwar (edited 14 October 2004).]
These are the Qur'anic verses that refer to the apparent crucifiction of Jesus ('Isa):
4:157. "And because of their (the Jews)saying, "We killed Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allâh," - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but the resemblance of 'Iesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man), and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not. 158. But Allâh raised him ['Iesa (Jesus)] up unto Himself. And Allâh is Ever AllPowerful, AllWise. 159. And there is none of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), but must believe in him, before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection, he ['Iesa (Jesus)] will be a witness against them."
Have you read A.N. Wison's book about Jesus. it tries to separate out the history from the biblical stories about him?
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"These are the best-selling novels for adults in the United States, and they have sold more than 60 million copies worldwide."
Jesus and Jihad
New York Times
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
If the latest in the "Left Behind" series of evangelical thrillers is to be believed, Jesus will return to Earth, gather non-Christians to his left and toss them into everlasting fire:
"Jesus merely raised one hand a few inches and a yawning chasm opened in the earth, stretching far and wide enough to swallow all of them. They tumbled in, howling and screeching, but their wailing was soon quashed and all was silent when the earth closed itself again."
These are the best-selling novels for adults in the United States, and they have sold more than 60 million copies worldwide. The latest is "Glorious Appearing," which has Jesus returning to Earth to wipe all non-Christians from the planet. It's disconcerting to find ethnic cleansing celebrated as the height of piety.
If a Muslim were to write an Islamic version of "Glorious Appearing" and publish it in Saudi Arabia, jubilantly describing a massacre of millions of non-Muslims by God, we would have a fit. We have quite properly linked the fundamentalist religious tracts of Islam with the intolerance they nurture, and it's time to remove the motes from our own eyes.
In "Glorious Appearing," Jesus merely speaks and the bodies of the enemy are ripped open. Christians have to drive carefully to avoid "hitting splayed and filleted bodies of men and women and horses."
"The riders not thrown," the novel continues, "leaped from their horses and tried to control them with the reins, but even as they struggled, their own flesh dissolved, their eyes melted and their tongues disintegrated. . . . Seconds later the same plague afflicted the horses, their flesh and eyes and tongues melting away, leaving grotesque skeletons standing, before they, too, rattled to the pavement."
One might have thought that Jesus would be more of an animal lover.
These scenes also raise an eschatological problem: Could devout fundamentalists really enjoy paradise as their friends, relatives and neighbors were heaved into hell?
As my Times colleague David Kirkpatrick noted in an article, this portrayal of a bloody Second Coming reflects a shift in American portrayals of Jesus, from a gentle Mister Rogers figure to a martial messiah presiding over a sea of blood. Militant Christianity rises to confront Militant Islam.
This matters in the real world, in the same way that fundamentalist Islamic tracts in Saudi Arabia do. Each form of fundamentalism creates a stark moral division between decent, pious types like oneself - and infidels headed for hell.
No, I don't think the readers of "Glorious Appearing" will ram planes into buildings. But we did imprison thousands of Muslims here and abroad after 9/11, and ordinary Americans joined in the torture of prisoners at Abu Ghraib in part because of a lack of empathy for the prisoners. It's harder to feel empathy for such people if we regard them as infidels and expect Jesus to dissolve their tongues and eyes any day now.
I had reservations about writing this column because I don't want to mock anyone's religious beliefs, and millions of Americans think "Glorious Appearing" describes God's will. Yet ultimately I think it's a mistake to treat religion as a taboo, either in this country or in Saudi Arabia.
I often write about religion precisely because faith has a vast impact on society. Since I've praised the work that evangelicals do in the third world (Christian aid groups are being particularly helpful in Sudan, at a time when most of the world has done nothing about the genocide there), I also feel a responsibility to protest intolerance at home.
Should we really give intolerance a pass if it is rooted in religious faith?
Many American Christians once read the Bible to mean that African-Americans were cursed as descendants of Noah's son Ham, and were intended by God to be enslaved. In the 19th century, millions of Americans sincerely accepted this Biblical justification for slavery as God's word - but surely it would have been wrong to defer to such racist nonsense simply because speaking out could have been perceived as denigrating some people's religious faith. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/17/opinion/17KRIS.html?th
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thank you all for your replies. newcomer: i haven't read this book yet but it sounds interesting, thank you! trojca: i believe in Holy Maryam and Holy Spirit. However, some things are difficult for me to understand, like: who moved the stone of Jesus' tomb and why if resurrected wasn't he spiritual??? i find the answers in Quran although they're against Christianity. that's why i want to know why, personally, you believe that crucification and resurrection of Jesus was a mistification. Any more thoughts???
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sorry if i didn't make my question clear, I know that you as a christian believe in them, I'm catholic. My question was for the muslim people
Posts: 33 | From: kansas city, ks, usa | Registered: Oct 2004
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trojca: no problem Muslims accept Holy Maryam as she was a virgin - mother of Jesus and she gave him birth due to the will of God. They also accept Holy Spirit but I it will be better said by Muslim.
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by trojca: [B]Do u believe in Holy mary?? or the Holy Spirit?
Hello Again , Yes we beleive in Both Mary and we call her Mariam in arabic and she is virgin and we also beleive that there is a Holy spirit and he is an angle (Gabrial) and he is one of the Greatest Angle. We also Beleive in Bible and all other holy books and in Jesus and it is a Basics in our religion without beleiving in that u will not be muslium. The different Between what christians beleive and what we beleive that mainly around Jesus (he is not son of God and also he didn't Sacrifying but God rise him alife and will be back in the last days. The other different is in Bibles that it is the bible u handleing now is not the real one (Not all of it God words) so that u and other christians find a lot of things they don't convinced with or also may be have problem to beleive in it i am sure about what i am saying cause it is not the first time i talk with christians. All what i can say u must read and know about Quran u will find a lot of things same as it is in Bible but not all of it (to the extent that some christians to scape from what they find from the true inside it they said that mohamed (PBUH) was wrote the Quran from Bible but he was not knowing to read or to write.
Well as a muslim, I believe in christianity, Jesus, virgin Mary and the holy spirit.
But I would disagree with considering Jesus to b the impersonation of God, as I would consider God to b too holy and complete to b impersonated in a human who could b beaten and lashed and so on. Also the idea of God having a son is more towards Heculese and the Greko-roman myths, as I believe God is too complete to want a son from a human!!!!!
I would also disagree that the Romans were able to put Jesus on the cross, as he was protected by God's mightiness who simply took him up to heaven and gave the Romans the illusion of capturing Jesus, also God wouldn't have left his messenger to b tortured to that extend.
As for if the bibles at hand now r not totally correct, well I don't know about this, but could somethings have been removed due to transelations and ppl thinking that it goes without saying.
At the end of this very long post, I would like u to know that I as a muslim respect Christianity and Christians and I don't believe that we r more faithful than christians or that they will go to hell and we go to paradise, but rather I think whoever does a good deed will b praised for it and whoever does a wrong deed will b punished for it, regardless of their religion.
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There are good messages in all of the major religions, but we need to get over them and start living for the future.
Posts: 33 | From: Beirut | Registered: Aug 2004
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i am talking from the musliums point of view and i said the bible u handeling now not the real bible. i mean the current bibles that chrisitians use now is corrupted and i will tell u why from my openion:-
1- I doubt that some parts of Bible came from god as (Soliemon Songs) i think u know very well what inside it.......
2- The Beleives that christains Beleive about Jesus Scarfying. I think it will never make ppl do good deeds (Imagine once u beleive that Jesus sacrfy for your sins u will enter heaven and u will not be asked about what u did in your life) so u think is that would make the ppl make more good deeds or bad deeds ((take care i am talking about Humans they are all siner not angles)) ????
3-The Bible that christian use now i see it not giving a lot of respect to prophets (for exmaple there is a story about a prophet that both of his daugther make him drunk and make him do sex with them ??????????? how that would be with a prophet 1-to be drunk , 2- to make sex with someone else his wife , 3- make sex with his daugther. I will never accept it at all from a teacher from God
there is a lot of things in my mind but i just bring some about what i see the bible u handling now
[This message has been edited by MohdAnwar (edited 16 October 2004).]
[This message has been edited by MohdAnwar (edited 16 October 2004).]
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Im not Christian but I feel the need to say this: 1. you cannot use as an argument what you think what God would or wouldnt do: "God wouldn't have left his messenger to be tortured to that extend" why not? you cant read Gods mind. there are lots of things we dont understand. 2. Very certainly parts of the BIble have been misinterpreted due to translation, others have likely been lost, re-written, added and the like.... but so did the Qu'ran! If you cannot acknoledge this you are not playing fair. Of course translation is not an issue but I remember a debate in which one period (.) or comma (,) would change the whole meaning of a verse depending on where it is positioned and there are no way to know where God intended it to be. In addition, because of the Oral tradition of the Qu'ran, it is close to impossible that no parts have been lost at all. Considering that within 3 generations after Mohamed (PBUH) the Seal was lost, and that it took a few more to get the Qu'ran written down, it is in my opinion impossible that it is complete and it might not even be written in the right order for that matter!
That said, I dont think all those things matter too much since the message in all 3 monotheist religions is roughly the same, the rules are similar and we all (in theory) strive towards a common goal. GOd being omniscient, knew what would happen to the holy books and if he decides to send to hell all the generations that came after those who corrupted them that would be rather unfair. For that reason I believe that it is what you get out of it that matters, the general, not the specific.
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MohdAnwar, we Christians believe that Jesus died for our sins but it doesn't mean that God won't look at what we did in our lifes. Annie, you're right, a lot of words in Quran and Bible have been modified. Don't you think that our belief in God should be the only one? I mean should we follow, accept or believe everything what we read in our holy books???
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quote:Originally posted by annie_81: Im not Christian but I feel the need to say this: 1. you cannot use as an argument what you think what God would or wouldnt do: "God wouldn't have left his messenger to be tortured to that extend" why not? you cant read Gods mind. there are lots of things we dont understand. 2. Very certainly parts of the BIble have been misinterpreted due to translation, others have likely been lost, re-written, added and the like.... but so did the Qu'ran! If you cannot acknoledge this you are not playing fair. Of course translation is not an issue but I remember a debate in which one period (.) or comma (,) would change the whole meaning of a verse depending on where it is positioned and there are no way to know where God intended it to be. In addition, because of the Oral tradition of the Qu'ran, it is close to impossible that no parts have been lost at all. Considering that within 3 generations after Mohamed (PBUH) the Seal was lost, and that it took a few more to get the Qu'ran written down, it is in my opinion impossible that it is complete and it might not even be written in the right order for that matter!
That said, I dont think all those things matter too much since the message in all 3 monotheist religions is roughly the same, the rules are similar and we all (in theory) strive towards a common goal. GOd being omniscient, knew what would happen to the holy books and if he decides to send to hell all the generations that came after those who corrupted them that would be rather unfair. For that reason I believe that it is what you get out of it that matters, the general, not the specific.
1-Yes u are right annie i don't know what in god mind but god give me mind to think, to compare, to learn if i didn't use it. it is useless .
2- about Quran and corruption 1- one of the most important rules in Islam that Quran can't be translated i mean u can not say it is a translated Quran but what u can say explination for quran cause Quran was always and will ever be with Arabic language and that make it never corrupted . so the explination could be wrong according to author thoughts but Quran never. (a littel note even u are western and u don't know arabic u have to read Quran in arabic language and also u have to pray in arabic language). Beside u can go all over the earth u will always find same copy of Quran ( i am talking about Quran not explination of Quran) another test go to USA , Paksitan , France, anywhere and ask about any single versus in Quran for any muslium to say it ( for sure u will find the same).
if i am talking about Bible as i know there is a hundreds of Bibles and at last when they found it too much the percist make a meeting for the 4 big church all over the world and make a union of all of this bibles in 4 approved copy of the Bible (King James, ....etc).
about the 3 messages yes u are right it almost giving same rules cause i said we must beleive in all holy books but real ones Bible and Torah and that it is god words but u must notice that what i am talking about is a basics (we talking about god if god is only one god or not) and for sure after u beleive that there is only one god your deeds that make your future in hell or heaven .
quote:Originally posted by melfenien: MohdAnwar, we Christians believe that Jesus died for our sins but it doesn't mean that God won't look at what we did in our lifes. Annie, you're right, a lot of words in Quran and Bible have been modified. Don't you think that our belief in God should be the only one? I mean should we follow, accept or believe everything what we read in our holy books???
As i know, the missionary always promise ppl they will go to heaven once they beleive in Jesus and he Died for thier sins anyway whatever u know in islam we have something its name Balance it would be after judgement day and every single action u did it counted and u will see it as u seeing a video tape so musliums know that very well and that make them keep themself at least from the big sins cause they know well everything is counted.
let me give u an example: suppose when u are child u was in a class that your teacher leanring u something wrong as 1+1 = 3 and u grown up and you become a teacher and u learned other student same things 1+1 = 3 what would be the result of all the new student ? and who will know the true? answer it plz
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I'm not the only person who may teach them someone else may show them what the truth is. Anyway, you say that we can go to heaven only if we believe in Jesus, but we also have to lead good lifes and keep ourselves from big sins. Jesus is our authority because he was a man without any sin. The same as you, we can't commit suicide and kill others. THat's why I can't understand one thing... Posts: 274 | Registered: Jul 2004
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In your post about killing in the name of God you said that going on a war is suicide because you may die there. But making yourself a bomb is honour. Don't you think that real honour is going on a war, fighting in the name of your nation, defending people who aren't guilty of burst of the war. Dying with honour is defending, not hurting innocent people. When you go on a war you hope to come back alive. When you make yourself a bomb, you know you will die. Isn't IT a suicide? And it's not honorous to die like that because such one attack won't change anything, it may just make cry people who lost their beloved persons, not guilty of anything. You said that your God doesn't allow you to hurt even trees. Why would he allow something like that???
I really respect your faith, it seems so pure to me. You didn't make wars in the name of religions like Christians used to do. I just can't understand one thing I've written about above. Please reply it
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about what written in the other post I think u have to review what i wrote again u didn't get what i meant. i said suscide itself is a big sins but what u will do if u have no gun no weapons and u seeing someone killed everyday may be your childs your sisters , your mother what u gonna do (watching) ??????? (i am talking about palastanie) and again i am saying musliums is different than islam ( as Christians not means Chrisitanity) if musliums did something wrong that not means islam same as chrisitnaity
about teacher and wrong things u learned
What i meant that when something not right inherit between ppl noone can know the true until he use his brain and mind and think and review everything he learned and compare to find the true.
I think u manily want to know more word (Jihad) isn't it? if so please tell me and i will give u a lot of link explain what it means and when it become suscide and when become Jihad
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At any case i want to say i respect u too much whatever u christian or muslium cause i beleive that we must try to find the true but the guidness is from god so i thank u very much that u trying to think
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I'm sorry, I misunderstood some of your thoughts. Ok, I'd agree with honour of "suicide" in the situation you've written above. Could you give me some more information about Jihad? I'd like to understand it eventually and agree that it makes sense and is honourable Posts: 274 | Registered: Jul 2004
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The thing which will always be unexplained for me is: if we believe in one, same God where are all those conflicts from??? We should try to understand each others' beliefs, not fight to persuade someone that what makes sense of his life is wrong. I respect you MohdAnwar, I think you're honourable man Posts: 274 | Registered: Jul 2004
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to ensure something u write ( if we believe in one, same God where are all those conflicts from??? ) There is a Say from our prophet mohamed (PBUH) telling us that worship to god is as a building and each prophet as a brick in this building and our prophet mohamed (PBUH) was the last brick so yes we are worship to same god. i will not say bible is corrupted but i wish u check all of it and write down the point that u not convinced and I think with god willing u will find most of your answers in Quran (I am sure it will convince u cause it is true). i can give u many links that talk about the conflicts in Bible but i prefer u look and see what is strange in bible by yourself.
[This message has been edited by MohdAnwar (edited 17 October 2004).]
[This message has been edited by MohdAnwar (edited 17 October 2004).]
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Thank you, the song is beautiful When it comes to strange things in Bible, that's why I've started this issue. For me, the most unexplained fact is resurrection, who moved the stone of Jesus' tomb, why (after resurrection) wasn't he spiritual and why didn't they recognise him. I'm a Christian but I'm afraid that I'm finding the answers for my questions in Quran. Could tell me why do you personally recon that Jesus was "just" a prophet, not the Son of God? And, due to you, what are those other strange facts written in Bible???
Posts: 274 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by melfenien: Thank you, the song is beautiful When it comes to strange things in Bible, that's why I've started this issue. For me, the most unexplained fact is resurrection, who moved the stone of Jesus' tomb, why (after resurrection) wasn't he spiritual and why didn't they recognise him. I'm a Christian but I'm afraid that I'm finding the answers for my questions in Quran. Could tell me why do you personally recon that Jesus was "just" a prophet, not the Son of God? And, due to you, what are those other strange facts written in Bible???
Melfenien, dont be so afraid of finding your answers in Quran and in Islam, its the same message from all God's prophets. Look at islam as the natural evolution of the religion of Abraham. I was also Christian and asked questions as you are, I am now Muslim I know I made the right choice
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Thanks Ayisha, you've raised up my spirits saying that you were a Christian When I started to read more about your religion I said to myself: what am I doing, I should stop it. I'm not afraid to search for the answers in Quran now. Best regards to you Posts: 274 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Could tell me why do you personally recon that Jesus was "just" a prophet, not the Son of God? And, due to you, what are those other strange facts written in Bible???[/B][/QUOTE]
Sorry for the last post was not including all your questions but i will tell u from my point of view why Jesus was not a son of God (but it is a personal approach):- let us ask first why they think Jesus was a son of god not a prophet ? the Quran telling us about Jesus and what mericable things he was have:-
1-He was Born without a father from a single mother 2-He was able to awake died ppl 3-He was able to treat ppl from some skins infections 4-He was making a bird from clay then he make it alife 5-He was able to Tell ppl what food inside their homes. 6-He talked when he was baby
that what i remmber from Quran so with a simple sentense (isn't god able to do anything ? so if god want to make anyone Jesus or anyone else to do this mircals. can't god make this person do all of this things without Being a son of God
but let us take it one by one and think about each one of it:- 1- Adam was without father or mother so the mircal was more greatest (why ppl didn't take Adam as a son of god ?) i would answer that cause there was no ppl while creation of Adam as while Jesus 2-He was able to awake died ppl but there is a lot of Stories about ppl awake after death as in Moses ages (Cow story), (Cave People), (Azeira Prophet) all of those awaken without Jesus so there is God who awaken ppl after death. 3-So nowadays i would say the doctor is mircable cause he treat ppl but it is god willing to make anyone treated or not by anyone or without anyone (it is god willing) 4-In Ibrahim ages he asked god how to awake died ppl god give him an example (he bring 4 birds and spread their body pieces then Ibrahim called them so they come) a clear story in Quran 5- He was telling people about what they have in their home I think satlite and Spying machines do that now without any mircal. 6- He talked when he was a baby there is a very famous story about a baby also talked when non-Beleiver was intend to burn the believer ppl (Aghdodo story).
so as u see eveything as i told u with god willing i was another explination but i don't want to go inside it i like this one more
[This message has been edited by MohdAnwar (edited 18 October 2004).]
[This message has been edited by MohdAnwar (edited 18 October 2004).]
quote:Originally posted by melfenien: Thanks Ayisha, you've raised up my spirits saying that you were a Christian When I started to read more about your religion I said to myself: what am I doing, I should stop it. I'm not afraid to search for the answers in Quran now. Best regards to you
Melfenien, if you need any more help or advice, or just a moan or question, my e-mail is nefertari19572000@yahoo.co.uk I have been Muslim now since July 2002, Islam answered all my questions
------------------ I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it
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OK with all that information I'm getting more confused that before, I guess that means I'm learning something new I hope. Anyway , I don't understand very good about the judgement day , is it like what christians believe as the end of the world?? like in the lst book of the bible(don't know the name)
Posts: 33 | From: kansas city, ks, usa | Registered: Oct 2004
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Oh something else. I went to a catholic school and I remember they always taught me about the The Holy Trinity, which means that God has three different forms : Father (god) Son (jesus) and Holy Spirit but that they are the same "person"
Posts: 33 | From: kansas city, ks, usa | Registered: Oct 2004
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THank you veeery much for your help! I'll surely write to you if I have more questions related to this issue Ayisha, I'd like to ask you one more thing - you live in Egypt, don't you? And what nationality are you? Did the fact you live with Egyptian people influenced on your decision about changing religion???
Posts: 274 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by trojca: OK with all that information I'm getting more confused that before, I guess that means I'm learning something new I hope. Anyway , I don't understand very good about the judgement day , is it like what christians believe as the end of the world?? like in the lst book of the bible(don't know the name)
Judgement Day itself is a big big thing a lot things will happend in this day god told us and it is explaind by Quran and also by our prophet mohamed (PBUH) things that make you fear that day alone even without hell but i think u want to know about the balance part and i will explain that part here as i know in Quran it is written that with each of us in his shoulder there is two Angles one on the right and another one in the left their names is Rakieb and Ateed they writting every single action u do. one for good deeds and one for bad deeds and when the Judgement day come it will be a balance for each of us, a side for your good deeds and the other side is for your bad deeds which is heavier that would decide where u will be in hell or in heaven (the strange thing that in Quran it is written that u will watch yourself do this good and bad deeds as a video tape so what a shame in front of god when u seeing your bad deeds) so that the muslium know very well that his actions that he do in his life is decide his future hell or heaven u not depending in anyone it is only what u do (Nothing will resuce u else your good deeds) in contrary in Christainty somehow they depend in Jesus and his sacrfying for them.
about god and the Theory of three God, Son and Holy spirit i want to ask u a simple question (Ast3`fro Allah) Who before God or the Son or Holy spirit that would bring a lot of imagination about that for anyone who beleive in Christainity and at the end u will never find a clear answer about that which will make u at last don't understand and asking the questions u asking now and also that will make that huge number of converter from Christianity to islam anyway i prefer to look at islam and study all of it (rules , Wisdom, relation between musliums and each other and relation between muslium and god ,....etc ) and at last look at this points u will find the answers with yourself u will never imagine how islam is very logic and give rules for everything in our life and after death u will always convinced and accept it
I wish i explained that part u want to know and if i didn't please tell me and i will try to searh and answer any question u want
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Melfenien, I dont live in egypt yet but am planning to move there. I live in UK and am British. No one influenced my decision to embrace Islam, only what I read and found for myself. One point, dont mix up cultures with Islam, they are different and dont mix Muslims with Islam, they too are different. Islam is perfect, Muslims are human and by deffinition they are NOT perfect.
Hope that helps
------------------ I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it
I'm not sure if you'll see this reply but having read your question and all the answers a few days ago my spirit was deeply disturbed and I pray God will guide me in this reply by His Holy Spirit.
I am a Christian and would like to ask. What Church do you go to? Is there no Christian you could go to with this question on resurrection (in your Church or friends?). Such a question posted will always draw the other viewpoints to persuade you to their viewpoint.
We believe the scriptures are God inspired, though written by man they were written through the influence of the Holy Spirit which is the Spirit of God (not an angel - angels are Gods helpers whom God created when He begam creation. Jesus and the Holy Spirit were not created they are God. We call it the trinity (three in one), we can't explain it but believe in by faith because the Bible has told us so.
We can't half believe in Jesus. Jesus Himself aid He was the Son of God so either He is a liar or He tells the Truth. He wasn't a prophet, He is the Son of God, our Risen Lord and Saviour. Of we are Christians and we believe in Jesus we believe inall of Him not just the part that sit comfortably with us. Some things we can't explain because we don't know the mind of God but Jesus has told us what we need to know through His Word the Bible.
We can't prove it and we don't have to prove it, that's Gods job if He so chooses for He opens the eyes of those whom he chooses.
Melfennien do you have a Bible. Read the Gospels. Believe by Faith what God has put in your heart by His Holy Spirit, listen to God and not to man, pray that God will open your eyes and your understadning as you read His Word and He will reveal himself to you, He is a God of great love and Great Mercy, He understands your doubt and accepts your humanity but He would like you to know Him better.
I'd like to say much more - if you want to talk about it let me know and we can take this off the forum and speak together on email. I have the Bible open now and there is so much I would love to share with you. I will continue to pray for you
Your sister in Christ
Posts: 1 | From: South Africa | Registered: Oct 2004
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I'm not sure if you'll see this reply but having read your question and all the answers a few days ago my spirit was deeply disturbed and I pray God will guide me in this reply by His Holy Spirit.
I am a Christian and would like to ask. What Church do you go to? Is there no Christian you could go to with this question on resurrection (in your Church or friends?). Such a question posted will always draw the other viewpoints to persuade you to their viewpoint.
We believe the scriptures are God inspired, though written by man they were written through the influence of the Holy Spirit which is the Spirit of God (not an angel - angels are Gods helpers whom God created when He begam creation. Jesus and the Holy Spirit were not created they are God. We call it the trinity (three in one), we can't explain it but believe in by faith because the Bible has told us so.
We can't half believe in Jesus. Jesus Himself aid He was the Son of God so either He is a liar or He tells the Truth. He wasn't a prophet, He is the Son of God, our Risen Lord and Saviour. Of we are Christians and we believe in Jesus we believe inall of Him not just the part that sit comfortably with us. Some things we can't explain because we don't know the mind of God but Jesus has told us what we need to know through His Word the Bible.
We can't prove it and we don't have to prove it, that's Gods job if He so chooses for He opens the eyes of those whom he chooses.
Melfennien do you have a Bible. Read the Gospels. Believe by Faith what God has put in your heart by His Holy Spirit, listen to God and not to man, pray that God will open your eyes and your understadning as you read His Word and He will reveal himself to you, He is a God of great love and Great Mercy, He understands your doubt and accepts your humanity but He would like you to know Him better.
I'd like to say much more - if you want to talk about it let me know and we can take this off the forum and speak together on email. I have the Bible open now and there is so much I would love to share with you. I will continue to pray for you
Your sister in Christ
As we all know god create everything including human, animals, earth, sun, everything. And god make everything in this world can't think same as Human . so god give us a special thing which is brain and the ability to think and then god give us the choise in everything in our life.
Now i would not talk about muslium or Christian i want to ask u one question if someone grown up in a family they not beleive there is a god (non-beleiver) what u think his religion would be ? i think he would be as his family (non-beleiver). now there is two way in front of him
1- he will not use his mind and stay as he was considering his family was right. 2- he will use his mind and think about god and search for the right way .
The first case u know very well he lost cause me and u know very well there is a god (whatever u and me think about God).
The second case he must use his mind but he must use all of it not just part of it i mean suppose he choose christianity by your way u would tell him (TAKE IT AS IT IS AS THE BIBLE SAID). is that ok with someone use his mind to find god ??????????????????????????????
he would ask u a very simple question (Who tell u that Bible is god words?) and then u have to answer can u answer me please ???
i am sure God give us this valuable thing (Brain and ability to think) to use it to worship to god or he can create us same as anything that can't think
[This message has been edited by MohdAnwar (edited 20 October 2004).]
[This message has been edited by MohdAnwar (edited 20 October 2004).]
posted
I have read with great interest the remarks here -I would like to put my sixthpenth in -I am going to get you all going now!
I was born from Christian parents and baptized a Christian and live in the UK When I was a child I was sent to church/Sunday school regularly. I was taught all the Biblical stories - but I felt then and all thru' my life HOW DO WE KNOW, WHERE IS THE PROOF that any of these things happened. There is NO PROOF it is based on beliefs,interpretations and so on. Now I want to make the point I respect all people whether they have Christian or Muslim beliefs. Every one is free to choose what ever they believe. My Mother was a regular church goer and believed in God but she still took her own life. To me taking one's own life IS committing suicide and yet she was a "believer" but it was a sin. But then how ever we live are lives we all sin in some way - it may be a tiny sin or a big sin never the less it is a sin. I believe there is a SPECIAL BEING or ENERGY in this glorious world of ours -I believe in doing my best for my family/neighbours/friends and indeed any one I come into contact with. When was the last time any of you believers did a neighbourly thing for those around you? The Church of England is one of the wealthiest organisations in UK owning huge areas of London - but what are they doing to HELP people? other than preaching in almost empty churches I have travelled to Egypt on many occasions and what little I see of the Muslim people I know ( not the Corniche lover boys), but the real Egyptians who have not been caught up in the tourist trade I believe they have lots to teach us all. To any one WITH PROOF please reply. I wish everyone affection, peace, health and enough food/water to live
quote:Originally posted by mydream: I have read with great interest the remarks here -I would like to put my sixthpenth in -I am going to get you all going now!
I was born from Christian parents and baptized a Christian and live in the UK When I was a child I was sent to church/Sunday school regularly. I was taught all the Biblical stories - but I felt then and all thru' my life HOW DO WE KNOW, WHERE IS THE PROOF that any of these things happened. There is NO PROOF it is based on beliefs,interpretations and so on. Now I want to make the point I respect all people whether they have Christian or Muslim beliefs. Every one is free to choose what ever they believe. My Mother was a regular church goer and believed in God but she still took her own life. To me taking one's own life IS committing suicide and yet she was a "believer" but it was a sin. But then how ever we live are lives we all sin in some way - it may be a tiny sin or a big sin never the less it is a sin. I believe there is a SPECIAL BEING or ENERGY in this glorious world of ours -I believe in doing my best for my family/neighbours/friends and indeed any one I come into contact with. When was the last time any of you believers did a neighbourly thing for those around you? The Church of England is one of the wealthiest organisations in UK owning huge areas of London - but what are they doing to HELP people? other than preaching in almost empty churches I have travelled to Egypt on many occasions and what little I see of the Muslim people I know ( not the Corniche lover boys), but the real Egyptians who have not been caught up in the tourist trade I believe they have lots to teach us all. To any one WITH PROOF please reply. I wish everyone affection, peace, health and enough food/water to live
hi, mydream it seems u have a very practical personality.and i have a very short answer for u .
if u can have a prove that any of the Holy book u know is god word u will beleive all of the stories and all the rules inside it? anyway i will answer yes instead of u
quote:Now i would not talk about muslium or Christian i want to ask u one question if someone grown up in a family they not beleive there is a god (non-beleiver) what u think his religion would be ? i think he would be as his family (non-beleiver).
MohdAnwar, exception makes the rule My parents are "Christians" but they don't believe in God. My father sometimes jokes about that topic and it was very hard for me to tell him that it's wrong and that hurts me. However, my friend is a very religious person so I attend to church with her. I had a choice and I think I've chosen the right way. But lately I've started to, as you said, "think" and search for other answers on my questions.
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Melfenien, MohdAnwar is right, God gave humans freedom of choice and also a set of rules with which if we follow we get to a good place, if we sin we get to a bad place, simple and same in Christianity and Islam.
The message of ALL the prophets, from Adam to Muhammad,is the same, WORSHIP ONE GOD. Its the first commandment. Its Islams too.
Comparing which is the WORDS OF GOD, I assume you have read the Bible, now read the Quran, then use your freedom of choice and brain and decide. Islam says use your brain and NOT BLIND FAITH. Islam says ask questions and VERIFY it all. why in christianity cant they explain??, why no verification?
Anyway Phylis, when you open your mind, read Quran you WILL be pleasently surprised Salam (peace) to all
------------------ I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it
" So he get a son and letting him die so he CAN??????? forgive? ".
(Ast3`efor Allah ) So u know who before who ?????? is that an answer for who before who ?????????????????????? but i need u to tell me again who before who please but in a clear sentense beside the word can in your sentense means that he can't sometimes and that not possiable with God. god always CAN ALWAYS CAN
" Inherited sin represent INJUSTICE ".
So u think when as your Bible say (Jesus Sacrify for other ppl sins that he didn't make. It is the all JUSTICE is that the rule someone pay something he didn't done ???????????????????, )
" God (NEED) for a reason for forgiveness represent weakness ".
WOW (Ast3`efor Allah ) How u can write this word GOD NEED. ??????????????????????????????????????? God needn't anything God able to forgive without anything god is all the forgivness god is all the mercy god is all the justice. and even the blood he ask us to sacrify in islam it is just to show god we obey him in everything
u have to repent for word CAN and NEED and all in all from your post.
[This message has been edited by MohdAnwar (edited 21 October 2004).]
[This message has been edited by MohdAnwar (edited 21 October 2004).]
[This message has been edited by MohdAnwar (edited 21 October 2004).]
posted
Hello MohdAnwar. Thank you very much for your answers, you've made it easier to understand. I was reading some information before posting in here again and I was completely amazed when i read about the judgement day, it's very similar to what christians believe only that instead of saying that the islamic people will be protected the christians will be. I think it won't matter the religion I think the only thing that will matter is to be a good person and live by God's general rules: love him first of all and love your brother. But that's just my interpretation. About your question of who's first I guess GOD is first because in first book of bible says that he created light and darkness and so on until he created adam and eve. and then after all what happens he created his son, Jesus, and then when he was killed (or lift to the sky according to Islam) he sent the Holy Spirit to be with us (the believers) forever Posts: 33 | From: kansas city, ks, usa | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Originally posted by MohdAnwar: " For me it’s simple ". (I WISH IT IS )
" So he get a son and letting him die so he CAN??????? forgive? ".
bla bla bla
man, I was answering the basic question "why don't you (Muslims) believe that Jesus was NOT RESURRECTED???
Now read my answer and you understand. I agree and believe in what you wrote back. but it wasn’t necessary since you didn’t know what I was answering or talking about.
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Muslims accept Holy Maryam as she was a virgin - mother of Jesus and she gave him birth due to the will of God. They also accept Holy Spirit but I it will be better said by Muslim.
someone else may show them what the truth is. 
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